Since I was one of the Braunstein players that was involved in the bloodbath at the end, I thought I would chime in and explain what happened from my perspective. I was playing “Student O” AKA “Oscar.” My goals were (1) Get out of prison, (2) Get in good with “Student B” and (3) Don’t get expelled from the University. In the setup, “Student A” (played by Baron de Ropp) was my rival in the bar fight that got me locked up. The characters involved in the Chancellor’s Office Massacre were: Students A, B, C and O as well as “Gretchen” (the barmaid) and The Baron. Student B was a fervent revolutionary, though he was the Baron’s son. Student O was also a revolutionary, and student A was a loyalist. The scene in the Chancellor’s office played out like this: Student A was trying to get Student B to get his father drunk, at which point Student A was going to challenge the Baron to a duel. Student O (me) was there to back up student B. Student A was trying to get Student B to take over the Barony in order to “implement reforms,” but in reality Student A was “playing the monarchy against the liberals” (de Ropp’s words) in order to insure that the revolution was quashed and support the status quo. To this end, Student A agreed that he would help get rid of the Baron. The Baron arrived at the Chancellor’s office. The plan was to try to get the Baron drunk first to insure victory, but he saw through the ruse and turned to leave the office rather than join us at a local pub. At that moment Student B (the Baron’s son) jumped to assassinate his father. Then we quickly moved the scene to the table where Dave Wesely was seated so that he could adjudicate the combat. Combat was resolved by having all participants roll 2d6 and compare results. The high number was the winning number. Students A, B, and O all attacked the Baron, but he rolled higher than all of us. As a result, he killed his son, Student B. This is the moment when Student A realized his scheme was impossible without the heir (Student B), so he quickly “switched back” to the Baron’s side. At that point the Baron and Student A attacked Student O (me), and I attacked the Baron. Their rolls were higher than mine, which meant Student O had died by the side of his friend, Student B. That also meant that I had achieved all my objectives, because I had gotten out of prison, I didn’t get get kicked out of University, I had gotten in good with Student B. Right before Student O was killed, Student C showed up with Gretchen, the barmaid. I believe a couple of other people also showed up. Student C and Gretchen retrieved weapons from the dead students and attacked Student A and the Baron, killing them both in two rounds of dice rolling. That’s when David Wesely said that game was essentially over, and we did the final wrap-up.
Thank you so much! This pretty much confirms what the player of Student B, @bobo72a said here in the comments earlier! Thank you for clearing that up. While my Student G was there, I played no role in the attacks because I was slightly confused and also a bit miffed that Student A had switched sides. My own personal goal (not on my sheet but something I decided for my character, "Greg") was to prevent Student A from killing Student C, as I'd developed a bit of a friendship with them both. I remember in hindsight that you were standing to my right, but my attention was focused in front of me, so in the video when I stumbled through the description and mentioned that there was something else there, that was you! Thanks again. And thank you for watching despite my confusion. Cheers!
What an incredible opportunity, one that comes once in a lifetime for gamers like us (if you’re lucky!). I would love-LOVE!-a video about the interviews you had with Megarry, Carr, and Wesely. Take care, Martin!
Stay tuned! I mainly focused on very specific questions I had for them which I will put in a video, and you'll also be ale to see a very special item I picked up at the Convention that is related to Mike Carr. Thank you so much for watching and commenting. Cheers!
Yes, of course! As I recall, you played two different roles, right? It was great to meet you as well! Thanks for coming up to introduce yourself. I had a great time gaming with you, and I hope to do so again at some point. In the meantime, thank you very much for your support of the channel. Cheers!
While this is like a LARP, I am pleasantly surprised to notice how much it serms to run like the TSR game Knave of Hearts. It came out in the late 80s around the time of the first murder mystery games. Everybody had a role, some secrets and some goals. There was a referee. The setting was a high society party. I remember one of the characters was actually a jewel thief and they would rob the other players by sneakily putting stickers on them letting them know they've been robbed.
Oh wow - I'd forgotten all about those Partyzone games! I pretty much ignored them back in the day because I was solely focused on D&D, Gamma World, and the rest. But I've played in similar style games before, and I think your analogy is pretty spot-on. Thanks for reminding me of those games, and of course for watching and commenting! I really appreciate it!
@@daddyrolleda1 I hadn't thought about the game in ages, but as I was watching your video I kept thinking to myself "this seems really familiar". I can easily see some developer trying to convert the concept to a more mass-market audience.
Thank you so much! It was great to meet you, too. I was so appreciative of all the folks I got to meet. I've not attended a lot of conventions, but after getting to meet such great people like yourself, I'm itching to attend more and hope to sit at a table with you one day to play a game together! Thank you so much for your support of the channel. I truly appreciate it.
Yeah, this was my first convention too and it was fun. Our team even won the D&D tourney Saturday, so we'll be back next year. Hopefully I'll catch you then!
You were! Part of the problem I had was that at one point, I asked someone for confirmation on who was who with regard to the Landwehr. Someone pointed and said, "That's the major, and the other guy is the sergeant" and either they pointed at the wrong person or I didn't pick up on who they were pointing at, but I spent about half the game thinking YOU were playing the Major! I think it was your swanky jacket... it gave you an air of authority. 😀 But I finally figured it out, but too late. By that time, the Baron had been passing out cash and gave me MORE than what I'd lost, so I figured that I'd accomplished my goal of "getting my money back that was stolen by the Landwehr": Just because it was stolen by one of them didn't mean I had to get it back from them as long as I got it somehow! At least, that's how I rationalized it.
I'm so glad you enjoyed it. I really struggled trying to explain the bloodbath combat at the end because it was so chaotic and I was so surprised what I deemed betrayal by Student A, so I stumbled a bit over that part, but hopefully you got a sense of what the game was like. I've been practicing (in my head) my Blackmoor video and I think you'll really enjoy that one!
@@daddyrolleda1 Looking forward to Blackmoor! It's tricky to explain chaos 😅 But really it's fine if it shows a bit, it's part of the real experience. Especially as a player, who doesn't have the big picture from the get go and you're supposed to be engaged in the role of an individual.
Thank you so much for your support of the channel! And I already mentioned to my wife and daughter that the convention has already been scheduled for next year, so we will see! Can you remind me of your name? Sorry - I didn't recognize your UA-cam name. Thanks!
1965 is when he started to work with Totten's Strategos. And shortly after that year made the game Strategos N. He was well into doing that game when in 1968 he does the Braunstein. November 18th 1968 was when the Braunstein game was done. I was originally under the impression it was 1967, but the book had to be out a year before he got to see it at the Military shop. Other then quibbles on dates, this is a good accurate depiction of game play. Also it was great finally getting to see you... and your hands. lol
Also Martin I believe the reason our Blackmoor game with Bill Hoyt was different than the one Questing Beast played at GaryCon with Bob Meyer is because Bob Meyer ran the actual "Braunsteinized" version of the game that was demonstrated to Gary Gygax and ultimately became Dungeons & Dragons. That evolution of the game had individual character stats, dungeon crawls and so on. I heard someone at our table at DaveCon say that you and I were playing the pre-Braunstein version of Blackmoor where it was more of a straight wargame. I thought I even heard that we were playing the scenario that led to the initial destruction of the castle which then led to players getting to go down and explore what was underneath it.
@@russstewart8112 Thanks for confirming Russell! I'm trying not to misspeak (or turn any of my recollections into a game of "operator") especially since there was so much info to soak in from both the original players of the game as well as well informed players from our generation. But yes getting to experience the two "primordial" versions of the game (Braunstein + early Blackmoor) was truly surreal.
Thanks so much, you two! I had some some of this, but not all, while we were there, so getting corroboration is really helpful. And, as you said, just the fact that we got to play in those games was incredible!
Kreigsspeil is about learning how orders work. So the Colonel gives captains orders, the captains give orders to their lieutenants, and the lieutenants give orders to their men. The Referee resolves the mechanics of all the orders. The players are supposed to see how tactical actions have operational consequences. When a lieutenants unit is killed he is killed and out of the game.
@@daddyrolleda1 I tried to play the video game decisive action, but it was impossible for me to understand the rules of play because it involves the tactical and operational levels of modern war.
Hello from Student B - the son of a noble obsessed with French republicanism! From my perspective, here's what went down: Student A (the German monarchist) and I spent most of the game running around talking shit about each other to the various townspeople, and we both noticed some weird discrepancies and people getting paid off to excite us to kill each other. We finally met up with the chancellor and hashed it out, and came to the conclusion that we were being lied to/set up. At that point, we wanted to see how deep the lies went and did a little escape artistry to slip out the city walls with Student O. Dave was shocked to see students A and B working together, but the three of us rolled the dice, ran outside and didn't see any signs of a french army coming at all! We came back to the university and addressed the other revolutionaries, saying we spent too much time worrying about how to support the French, and not enough time asking ourselves what the Jacobins would have done in our situation right now. Student A was on board with supporting me as the new ruler, and while I disagreed on the form we formed an uneasy alliance in that whatever happened afterwards, it was clear that the system as it stood needed to be overthrown. We came up with this plan to get the Baron extremely drunk, then Student A was going to challenge him to a duel. After winning, we were going to take on the Prussian cops and get a riot started. After all, my cadre and I had been wheeling and dealing with AEIOU to get everyone on the same page when the moment arrived. While I approached my father the Baron and saying we needed to celebrate a surprise, he refused the drink with me on our way to the university. He got immediately incredibly suspicious to see Student A and I there together. He said the vibes were way off and he was leaving - the plan needed to be set into motion immediately, and I attacked. Student A and I both drew on him, and we went over to Dave to roll again. I rolled snake eyes and immediately died by my father's hand. Student A saw his new noble die and promptly turned sides - it was the monarchists vs republicans at that point. Baron then killed Student O, Student A killed another revolutionary (apologies, I forgot who!), Student C killed the Baron, and Gretchen killed Student A, leaving the revolutionary couple victorious for the moment. At just about the same time, the police had noticed all the students were getting armed and decided it was a good time to go disarm everyone en masse. It also turned out that french spy had temporarily halted the army's advance, they were just a bit further out. That was it! Dave seemed amused and said it was the first murder plot he ever saw in this scenario. We really went for the Titus Andronicus finale, and I'm not sure if I'm proud or ashamed to be the first Braunstein murderhobo. If I'm being honest, it's definitely both. Anyway, I love your channel and didn't get a chance to say hello. I've learned a lot from watching. Maybe I'll find you next year and we can chat. Now go watch Mean Girls, it's a stone cold classic ;)
And how dare you die, leaving my (the Banker) beautiful daughter (Professor Dungeon Master) as a spinster! The Baron and I worked hard for that arranged marriage. The whole experience was definitely amazing...
@@SusCalvin there weren't any, at least for my role. The revolutionary cadre were all real people playing! Also apologies: it was Student C who killed Student A, and Gretchen who took out the Baron! This was an exciting distinction because Gretchen's IRL brother was the person playing the Baron, she was very excited by this. MVP for sure.
I was thrilled to meet you at DaveCon. I didn't know anything about the origin of the convention or the importance of the guests. But I'm glad I went and stumbled into such a great event and meet so many interesting folks. Hopefully you have fun with your "new" copy of Dawn Patrol.
I was hoping to connect with you here! Thanks for finding the video, and for watching and commenting! I really appreciate it. I'll be pulling out that copy of Dawn Patrol in my next video (I think - or the one after that) just to show it. Thank you so much. Email incoming soon so we can continue our chat about your old collection. Cheers!
Thanks Martin! No experience with Bronstein so appreciated. It seems like a cross between LRP and readers theater, though I would’ve been in the Grognard camp of players retreating to traditional war games - I just want my toy soldiers to fight with dice; talking to people is silly.
Glad to hear about your amazing experience, and I love that you’re getting welcomed with open arms from some of the bigger channels. Great stuff as always
I really appreciate you saying that. Thank you so much. I was honestly a bit humbled by the welcome and support from folks. I'm still reeling from it. Thanks again!
I'm so glad to hear that! I think you'll enjoy my video on the Blackmoor game I played, which I'm working on now. Thank you so much for watching and commenting. I really appreciate it. And thanks for your support of the channel!
@@daddyrolleda1 I think my days of traveling so far a distance for a convention might be behind me but living here in Lake Geneva takes some of the sting out of it. Keep making videos so I can live vicariously through them!
Always such a informative video the early history of rpgs. Your such an inspiration for my humble channel, I hope you have a good game next time you play and keep your shield arm strong man!
Given the context of getting killed in that first duel, it's interesting to see when Arneson ran his own Braunstein, one character's notes made staying alive a condition for success! On a side note, at DaveCon I learned via a miniatures games using Mr. Wesely's Strategos-N rules: the numerical difference between an attacker's and defender's die rolls determines the decisiveness of the result. So, the duel where Jim Clark rolled high and Arneson rolled low (snake eyes IIRC?), that wargaming concept probably informed the difference between first blood, or losing an eye, or as what was adjudicated, being run through the heart!
Sorry for the delay, but thank you so much for watching and commenting! And yes, I learned that, too, about the die rolls and heard also that Arneson rolled snake eyes, whereas Jim Clark rolled an 11 I think? Something like that - it was a really big difference and Wesely decided it was too big to allow a chance for Arneson to have lived. Cheers!
Like all the deep historical gaming stuff you discuss this was absolutely fascinating. My understanding has long been that to really get the deep roots and ongoing cross pollination of these hobbies you have to go really deep into the various obscure pockets of praxis, much of which is over so long a time and oft so obscure as to be all but impossible for any one person to maintain in their head for a meaningful period.
Thank you so much for your support and for complementing the channel. I really appreciate it! And yes, I think you're quite right. As a "spoiler" for an upcoming video, for example, I've learned that a lot of times when people talk about "the first Blackmoor game..." they mean THEIR first time playing Blackmoor, not the actual first time it was played. That nuance has gotten lost over time, so like you said, I think it's all a bit muddled together. Thanks again!
In the 60's and Early 70's There was a massive Hyborian Age Campaign that had roleplaying elements run by some of the Greats of the Wargaming world at the time. I believe it was organised originally by Tony Bath
Yes, indeed! You've got it correct - Tony Bath. I have mentioned Hyborian Age here before on the channel, interestingly enough in my video on the history of D&D's 6 Ability Scores: ua-cam.com/video/OSa1fwcxsG8/v-deo.html
Great video once again! This time of year I'm normally at Jazz Fest but this year was in Europe, maybe next year! And I love the Bonus, both for the cocktails (not a beer drinker) and music (despite not being into Jazz really)!
Oh, very cool! I haven't been to Europe for far too long (last time was 2006 when my wife and I went to Scotland and Ireland). We had a trip to Paris planned to go with my daughter a few years ago - my wife won a bid at my daughter's school's annual fund auction of someone who owned an apartment in Paris right next to a famous museum (I just forgot the name; not the Louvre, but an impressionist guy I think). In any event, we had our plane tickets, apartment, and everything lined up and then: LOCKDOWNS! And while we were on lockdown, the folks had to sell their apartment because they couldn't afford it, so we never got to go. I've been to Jazz Fest once again back ~2012 (I recall Bruce Springsteen was there, but I was much more excited to see Sun Ra and Chick Corea) because my wife's client was one of the sponsors and she had to work there, so I tagged along. Thank you so much for watching and commenting, and for staying through the bonus content! I'll be featuring some non-jazz albums soon! Cheers!
@@daddyrolleda1 thank you for the reply! Hope you do get to Paris, this was my second visit with a few days in Dublin too. As an old cocktail and music lover you will find NOLA quite fun to revisit! And I look forward to the next video!
another great video Martin and glad to hear it seems like you had a great time. One day I'd love to attend a convention like this. Never have sadly.. RPG or Board game both of which I love and have played for 45 odd years.
I was a little apprehensive about attending because I don't necessarily like being in large crowds and also I felt like I might be somewhat of an outsider at this point, but my fears were silly! It was the perfect size (for me) and everyone was so nice and welcoming. I also play board games and another convention I do like is called "Shut Up and Sit Down" (or "SHUX") which is held in Vancouver in October. The name just means that it's all about gaming. It's a very welcoming type place where folks are just there to game, and I've had a great time there with my friends. I hope you attend a convention some day. They can be a lot of fun! Thank you so much for watching and commenting!
@@daddyrolleda1 the same for me.. even knowing that once I did go it would probably be exactly as you said it was. I got my eye on a Traveller convention close by (in PA) in the fall and might finally attend one.
That would be great! I do hope to attend next year as well, but I will need to look at my finances, as I'm also considering attending GaryCon, as I've never been to that one. It will also depend on my daughter's spring break schedule. But, all that said, I highly recommend going if you are able!
Nice video. Very thorough, and it's great you are introducing a new batch of players to this style of game. Lemme know if you wantnto talk to a few guys that are running Braunsteins set in and influencing their current RPG campaigns. We've been experimenting with this aort of game for a few years and have learned a lot about how to use them. They are an absolute blast.
Great video and it was fun getting to relive all of those moments that you touched on! Such an incredible experience and I'm so glad we got to connect at the con! I did chuckle hearing you stumble over trying to make sense of the final Braunstein melee, ha ha. That was nuts. 😊
It was so great getting to meet and chat with you! And yes, that final blood bath was crazy, but what's really fun is folks involved, including Student B and Student O as well as the Pigeon Seller and other folks all jumped in to the comments later to explain their version of what happened. It's like a little community formed there at the convention and it was fun to see them all jump into the comments to chat about it!
Great video. I watched Questing beasts video too. This looks like a wildly fun way to game. Did David W mention publishing any of the info for others to run his game?
Thanks for watching, as always! He mentioned Barons of Braunstein, which is a modern published game by Olde House Rules but which is based on Dave Wesely's original Braunstein game. Here's a link: www.oldehouserules.com/barons-of-braunstein.html He was selling copies of this at the convention and gave a copy away to one of the folks voted "most self-interested" in the group. I think at this point, that's as close as one can get, although I did get the impression that there might be more on the horizon. I also forgot to mention that Dave gave away some copies of a very old TSR game, Valley Forge, along with his revisions to the game (of which he printed many copies that went unsold back in the day), which was really cool. I hope that helps!
I asked him on the last day if any of his official/original scenarios have been published - he said it's in the works right now. So stay tuned I guess!
I've only ever been to one con, last year's Origins, but if you decide to hit up next year's Origins (and I'm not away at some auto plant, the reason I missed this year) I'll see you there.
That's a fun way to look at it, and honestly not too far off. Diplomacy was mentioned quite a few times in other historical analyses of the time. Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for your support!
The old but not as old tabletop game Junta has no RPG mechanics but lets you juggle power and money in a little banana republic. You get a simple wargame that kicks in the moment someone wants a coup. Large army units starts outside town, the police inside the city, mobs can join etc. They are decided fast.
Thanks for this! I am pretty unfamiliar with Junta, but I just looked it up and saw that one of the designers was none other than Steve Marsh, of 1981 D&D Expert Rules fame! What a small world!
@@daddyrolleda1 It sounds like Braunstein threw out that sort of wargame remnants. It sounds like you did not control your different groups in the city through some wargame mechanic. No chits portraying student mobs moving against landwehr units. Junta has some fun ideas for coups. All players are part of the junta, all have at least one office. The worst you can do is make someone admiral of the symbolic little navy with one ship outside the harbour. Army brigades are large but need to trek into town. El Presidente can only personally command the palace guard and hope the people they assigned to offices are loyal. Both sides win by seizing points like the TV station. The police is smaller but starts inside town. Players can use cards and political influence to rile up mobs from different voter groups. It's as close to an RPG as Diplomacy, you will be talking a lot but not necessarily roleplaying in a funny hat. Warhammer was half wargame and half RPG early on. You also had a referee and character goals. They have ideas about double-blind deployment and goals, and neutral forces and environment effects run by the ref. In one Challenge scenario the ref is instructed to play a shapeshifting space vampire hiding in one player unit. Specialist games like Gorkamorka/Necromunda/Mordheim and most of all Inquisitor got even closer to a skirmish/personal scale. I want to check out what skirmish/battle systems from TSR did. Like Chainmail and the battle card system deviced for Birthright. Birthright came at the tail end of TSR and was supposed to be the big domain play setting. You start level 1-3 as a baron or merchant prince or archwizard. They decided that cards with unit stats was cheaper than models. You draw a deck of cards with combat resolution matrices.
Call of Cthulhu does a good job at having individual player goals and group collective goals. I think that it does makes games a lot better. At least when it comes to investigative cosmic horror. It means that a player might be looking for a cooked accountant ledger and someone else might be looking for a borrowed book, but they both uncover a cosmic horror together.
Call of Cthulhu, especially some of the older adventures, include a lot of investigation. The characters manage time, and every investigator don't go to the barrister or look up court records or watch the old barn. You get together when you think you got all you need or when time runs out.
Also if you want to check out some more recent jazz, try Davina and the Vagabonds to honor your recent visit to the twin cities. Great New Orleans style jazz music for some future bonus content.
Some really old kriegsspiel versions wanted to solve a lot more with rolls and rules. But from what I understand they grew into too much management. So a senior officer as referee remained the norm.
The whole concept of how games like that became crucial to a military's success is fascinating to me. The way Dave Wesely describes it, by the time they were playing Strategos-N in ~1965, the Minneapolis/Twin Cities area had more war gamers than any other place in the U.S. other than an actual war college.
@@daddyrolleda1 The prussian staff officers who would have played it much earlier had a lot more practical, living experience of it. They seem to have a referee or more who sometimes freeform arbitrate what happens. They reach some conclusion they can't make a table for all the things they know decide combat. But a few older officers can intuitively arbitrate outcomes. I'd have to read how made-for-civilians Little Wars played, where they push around lead figures on a floor at home instead of a staff office. The officer corps in Europe in the 19th century is starting to grow into a professional corps instead of blokes of good reputation who showed up. Very early wargames and later RPGs here assumed you would pour your own miniatures using lead and molds. Prince August sold a line of fantasy figures you could make in a kitchen. Strategic planning using wargames continued. There was UK staff officers, mostly women, who played a sort of submarine wargame through the war to figure out how hypothetical detection systems worked. Using a double-blind system of hidden movement for both sides.
Nice to meet a fellow jazz fan! Thank you for watching all the way through to the end. I really appreciate it. And thanks for your support of the channel. Cheers!
Braunstein was NOT a Role playing game. Yes, there were roles, and it was a game, but there is a huge difference between a girl who is your friend, and your girlfriend. RPGs have stats, advancement, etc. But IF Braunstein is a RPG (it's not) then Little Wars (1913) by HG Wells was first- you had a role- General, and it was a game. So, Arneson invented the RPG, no one else. I am tired of people trying to steal Dave Arneson's- who I played with once- credit.
That's what I had always thought as well, but the folks at the convention including Dave Megarry, Mike Carr, and Kevin McColl (not to mention Dave Wesely), all of whom hold Dave Arneson in very high regard, all say that Braunstein shows all the hallmarks of being a roleplaying game. I certainly don't get the impression that any of those people are trying to take any credit away from Dave Arneson at all. I think the main train of thought is to ensure that Gary Gygax stops getting all the credit for having done so, as was claimed for many years.
I think you're splitting hairs. Role Playing has many definitions whether a game or not. What makes it a game, in my opinion, is the goal aspect and the referee.
Dave did not invent role playing out of thin air but as with most things there is a string of ideas. Braunstein is just one of the links in the chain probably the last link before Blackmoor .
The boring nature of your character seems like a happy accident to me. Although, you're probably right that the additional characters were rushed, I still like the idea of a generic character. Not everyone can be a hero. Not everyone needs to be a character in Vecinos with a wacky background. I am a pretty boring person, but it would still be fun to role-play a regular person getting wrapped up in a major plot. How would I handle it in real life? Would I get involved and fight for what I think is right or just try to protect what is mine and keep my head down?
Yes, that was awesome! He was so welcoming to me, and he even recognized me from the logo shirt I was wearing and called me out during his first seminar (telling folks to watch my channel), which I felt was really above and beyond and showed what a classy guy he is. He then went further to introduce me to Baron de Ropp (who hadn't watched my channel yet, but who immediately began looking at my videos and offering suggestions on how to improve my thumbnails) and also Justin Alexander (with whom I'd corresponded by doing a review of his book, but had never met in person). They all could not have been kinder.
Regarding (modern and high) german pronunciation: Braun in german and brown in english are actually pretty close (to get a little closer, say brown but skip the w and go straight to the n, maybe a hint of the "ou" in "you" in between). The "ei" in Stein should sound more like the the "I" in english, an not like the ee in "spleen": upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/De-Stein2.ogg But, close enough. This isn´t a german test, after all. Regarding the mystical german "Stein" mug, never seen one. Not really a thing in Germany. However, Stein is an old measurement for weight. Between 3000g (~3L) and 10000g (~10l)....I would like to see _that_ mug....
That would be a huge mug! Dave Wesely had a stein on the table (you can see it in some of the photos) to use as a prop to help us remember how to pronounce it. It cracked me up, but it was effective. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Since I was one of the Braunstein players that was involved in the bloodbath at the end, I thought I would chime in and explain what happened from my perspective.
I was playing “Student O” AKA “Oscar.” My goals were (1) Get out of prison, (2) Get in good with “Student B” and (3) Don’t get expelled from the University. In the setup, “Student A” (played by Baron de Ropp) was my rival in the bar fight that got me locked up.
The characters involved in the Chancellor’s Office Massacre were: Students A, B, C and O as well as “Gretchen” (the barmaid) and The Baron.
Student B was a fervent revolutionary, though he was the Baron’s son. Student O was also a revolutionary, and student A was a loyalist.
The scene in the Chancellor’s office played out like this: Student A was trying to get Student B to get his father drunk, at which point Student A was going to challenge the Baron to a duel. Student O (me) was there to back up student B. Student A was trying to get Student B to take over the Barony in order to “implement reforms,” but in reality Student A was “playing the monarchy against the liberals” (de Ropp’s words) in order to insure that the revolution was quashed and support the status quo. To this end, Student A agreed that he would help get rid of the Baron.
The Baron arrived at the Chancellor’s office. The plan was to try to get the Baron drunk first to insure victory, but he saw through the ruse and turned to leave the office rather than join us at a local pub. At that moment Student B (the Baron’s son) jumped to assassinate his father. Then we quickly moved the scene to the table where Dave Wesely was seated so that he could adjudicate the combat.
Combat was resolved by having all participants roll 2d6 and compare results. The high number was the winning number. Students A, B, and O all attacked the Baron, but he rolled higher than all of us. As a result, he killed his son, Student B. This is the moment when Student A realized his scheme was impossible without the heir (Student B), so he quickly “switched back” to the Baron’s side.
At that point the Baron and Student A attacked Student O (me), and I attacked the Baron. Their rolls were higher than mine, which meant Student O had died by the side of his friend, Student B. That also meant that I had achieved all my objectives, because I had gotten out of prison, I didn’t get get kicked out of University, I had gotten in good with Student B.
Right before Student O was killed, Student C showed up with Gretchen, the barmaid. I believe a couple of other people also showed up. Student C and Gretchen retrieved weapons from the dead students and attacked Student A and the Baron, killing them both in two rounds of dice rolling.
That’s when David Wesely said that game was essentially over, and we did the final wrap-up.
Thank you so much! This pretty much confirms what the player of Student B, @bobo72a said here in the comments earlier! Thank you for clearing that up. While my Student G was there, I played no role in the attacks because I was slightly confused and also a bit miffed that Student A had switched sides. My own personal goal (not on my sheet but something I decided for my character, "Greg") was to prevent Student A from killing Student C, as I'd developed a bit of a friendship with them both.
I remember in hindsight that you were standing to my right, but my attention was focused in front of me, so in the video when I stumbled through the description and mentioned that there was something else there, that was you!
Thanks again. And thank you for watching despite my confusion. Cheers!
What an incredible opportunity, one that comes once in a lifetime for gamers like us (if you’re lucky!). I would love-LOVE!-a video about the interviews you had with Megarry, Carr, and Wesely. Take care, Martin!
Stay tuned! I mainly focused on very specific questions I had for them which I will put in a video, and you'll also be ale to see a very special item I picked up at the Convention that is related to Mike Carr.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting. Cheers!
It was nice to meet you Martin! I was the Pigeon Dealer (French Spy #3)
Yes, of course! As I recall, you played two different roles, right?
It was great to meet you as well! Thanks for coming up to introduce yourself. I had a great time gaming with you, and I hope to do so again at some point. In the meantime, thank you very much for your support of the channel. Cheers!
While this is like a LARP, I am pleasantly surprised to notice how much it serms to run like the TSR game Knave of Hearts. It came out in the late 80s around the time of the first murder mystery games. Everybody had a role, some secrets and some goals. There was a referee. The setting was a high society party. I remember one of the characters was actually a jewel thief and they would rob the other players by sneakily putting stickers on them letting them know they've been robbed.
Oh wow - I'd forgotten all about those Partyzone games! I pretty much ignored them back in the day because I was solely focused on D&D, Gamma World, and the rest. But I've played in similar style games before, and I think your analogy is pretty spot-on.
Thanks for reminding me of those games, and of course for watching and commenting! I really appreciate it!
@@daddyrolleda1 I hadn't thought about the game in ages, but as I was watching your video I kept thinking to myself "this seems really familiar". I can easily see some developer trying to convert the concept to a more mass-market audience.
Was great to meet you in person at DaveCon Martin. I was sad i wasnt in any of the games you did, but it looks like you had some great experiences.
Thank you so much! It was great to meet you, too. I was so appreciative of all the folks I got to meet. I've not attended a lot of conventions, but after getting to meet such great people like yourself, I'm itching to attend more and hope to sit at a table with you one day to play a game together!
Thank you so much for your support of the channel. I truly appreciate it.
Yeah, this was my first convention too and it was fun. Our team even won the D&D tourney Saturday, so we'll be back next year. Hopefully I'll catch you then!
That must of been really cool.
Awesome to hear the same game from your perspective!
I was being truthful that I (The seargent) didn’t steal your money!
You were! Part of the problem I had was that at one point, I asked someone for confirmation on who was who with regard to the Landwehr. Someone pointed and said, "That's the major, and the other guy is the sergeant" and either they pointed at the wrong person or I didn't pick up on who they were pointing at, but I spent about half the game thinking YOU were playing the Major! I think it was your swanky jacket... it gave you an air of authority. 😀 But I finally figured it out, but too late. By that time, the Baron had been passing out cash and gave me MORE than what I'd lost, so I figured that I'd accomplished my goal of "getting my money back that was stolen by the Landwehr": Just because it was stolen by one of them didn't mean I had to get it back from them as long as I got it somehow! At least, that's how I rationalized it.
Wow! This is really fascinating and benefits from your contextualizing things and the general thorough presentation. Thanks!
I'm so glad you enjoyed it. I really struggled trying to explain the bloodbath combat at the end because it was so chaotic and I was so surprised what I deemed betrayal by Student A, so I stumbled a bit over that part, but hopefully you got a sense of what the game was like.
I've been practicing (in my head) my Blackmoor video and I think you'll really enjoy that one!
@@daddyrolleda1 Looking forward to Blackmoor! It's tricky to explain chaos 😅 But really it's fine if it shows a bit, it's part of the real experience. Especially as a player, who doesn't have the big picture from the get go and you're supposed to be engaged in the role of an individual.
This was a great experience as a con, this session doubly so. I'll definitely be back next year, and hope to see you again then
Thank you so much for your support of the channel! And I already mentioned to my wife and daughter that the convention has already been scheduled for next year, so we will see!
Can you remind me of your name? Sorry - I didn't recognize your UA-cam name.
Thanks!
1965 is when he started to work with Totten's Strategos. And shortly after that year made the game Strategos N. He was well into doing that game when in 1968 he does the Braunstein.
November 18th 1968 was when the Braunstein game was done. I was originally under the impression it was 1967, but the book had to be out a year before he got to see it at the Military shop.
Other then quibbles on dates, this is a good accurate depiction of game play. Also it was great finally getting to see you... and your hands. lol
"... and your hands"! Cracked me up.
Thanks, Kevin. Great to meet you, too, and thanks for all the added information after I got back. Cheers!
Also Martin I believe the reason our Blackmoor game with Bill Hoyt was different than the one Questing Beast played at GaryCon with Bob Meyer is because Bob Meyer ran the actual "Braunsteinized" version of the game that was demonstrated to Gary Gygax and ultimately became Dungeons & Dragons. That evolution of the game had individual character stats, dungeon crawls and so on. I heard someone at our table at DaveCon say that you and I were playing the pre-Braunstein version of Blackmoor where it was more of a straight wargame. I thought I even heard that we were playing the scenario that led to the initial destruction of the castle which then led to players getting to go down and explore what was underneath it.
Kevin, I recall the same conversation. I feel like the Blackmoor we played was primordial. It was an incredible experience.
@@russstewart8112 Thanks for confirming Russell! I'm trying not to misspeak (or turn any of my recollections into a game of "operator") especially since there was so much info to soak in from both the original players of the game as well as well informed players from our generation. But yes getting to experience the two "primordial" versions of the game (Braunstein + early Blackmoor) was truly surreal.
Thanks so much, you two! I had some some of this, but not all, while we were there, so getting corroboration is really helpful. And, as you said, just the fact that we got to play in those games was incredible!
I love that you had this opportunity, Martin!!
It was a blast. Thank you so much!
Kreigsspeil is about learning how orders work. So the Colonel gives captains orders, the captains give orders to their lieutenants, and the lieutenants give orders to their men. The Referee resolves the mechanics of all the orders. The players are supposed to see how tactical actions have operational consequences. When a lieutenants unit is killed he is killed and out of the game.
Very cool! Thank you for the extra context. Have you played Kriegsspiel before?
@@daddyrolleda1 I tried to play the video game decisive action, but it was impossible for me to understand the rules of play because it involves the tactical and operational levels of modern war.
When two vowels go walking (in German), the second does the talking!
Ha! Never heard that phrase before. That's funny!
But now, you'll never forget it, and you'll be much more sure of yourself!
Hello from Student B - the son of a noble obsessed with French republicanism! From my perspective, here's what went down: Student A (the German monarchist) and I spent most of the game running around talking shit about each other to the various townspeople, and we both noticed some weird discrepancies and people getting paid off to excite us to kill each other. We finally met up with the chancellor and hashed it out, and came to the conclusion that we were being lied to/set up. At that point, we wanted to see how deep the lies went and did a little escape artistry to slip out the city walls with Student O. Dave was shocked to see students A and B working together, but the three of us rolled the dice, ran outside and didn't see any signs of a french army coming at all!
We came back to the university and addressed the other revolutionaries, saying we spent too much time worrying about how to support the French, and not enough time asking ourselves what the Jacobins would have done in our situation right now. Student A was on board with supporting me as the new ruler, and while I disagreed on the form we formed an uneasy alliance in that whatever happened afterwards, it was clear that the system as it stood needed to be overthrown. We came up with this plan to get the Baron extremely drunk, then Student A was going to challenge him to a duel. After winning, we were going to take on the Prussian cops and get a riot started. After all, my cadre and I had been wheeling and dealing with AEIOU to get everyone on the same page when the moment arrived.
While I approached my father the Baron and saying we needed to celebrate a surprise, he refused the drink with me on our way to the university. He got immediately incredibly suspicious to see Student A and I there together. He said the vibes were way off and he was leaving - the plan needed to be set into motion immediately, and I attacked. Student A and I both drew on him, and we went over to Dave to roll again. I rolled snake eyes and immediately died by my father's hand. Student A saw his new noble die and promptly turned sides - it was the monarchists vs republicans at that point. Baron then killed Student O, Student A killed another revolutionary (apologies, I forgot who!), Student C killed the Baron, and Gretchen killed Student A, leaving the revolutionary couple victorious for the moment.
At just about the same time, the police had noticed all the students were getting armed and decided it was a good time to go disarm everyone en masse. It also turned out that french spy had temporarily halted the army's advance, they were just a bit further out. That was it! Dave seemed amused and said it was the first murder plot he ever saw in this scenario. We really went for the Titus Andronicus finale, and I'm not sure if I'm proud or ashamed to be the first Braunstein murderhobo. If I'm being honest, it's definitely both.
Anyway, I love your channel and didn't get a chance to say hello. I've learned a lot from watching. Maybe I'll find you next year and we can chat. Now go watch Mean Girls, it's a stone cold classic ;)
How did command and control of NPC groups work? Like the police or your cadre and the mob you created
And how dare you die, leaving my (the Banker) beautiful daughter (Professor Dungeon Master) as a spinster! The Baron and I worked hard for that arranged marriage. The whole experience was definitely amazing...
Greetings from Student O! I just posted my "battle report," which correlates pretty well with yours!
@@SusCalvin there weren't any, at least for my role. The revolutionary cadre were all real people playing!
Also apologies: it was Student C who killed Student A, and Gretchen who took out the Baron! This was an exciting distinction because Gretchen's IRL brother was the person playing the Baron, she was very excited by this. MVP for sure.
It was nice to meet you Martin! I was the Pigeon Dealer (French Spy #3)
I was thrilled to meet you at DaveCon. I didn't know anything about the origin of the convention or the importance of the guests. But I'm glad I went and stumbled into such a great event and meet so many interesting folks. Hopefully you have fun with your "new" copy of Dawn Patrol.
I was hoping to connect with you here! Thanks for finding the video, and for watching and commenting! I really appreciate it. I'll be pulling out that copy of Dawn Patrol in my next video (I think - or the one after that) just to show it. Thank you so much. Email incoming soon so we can continue our chat about your old collection.
Cheers!
Thanks Martin! No experience with Bronstein so appreciated. It seems like a cross between LRP and readers theater, though I would’ve been in the Grognard camp of players retreating to traditional war games - I just want my toy soldiers to fight with dice; talking to people is silly.
Keep being awesome!
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it!
Glad to hear about your amazing experience, and I love that you’re getting welcomed with open arms from some of the bigger channels. Great stuff as always
I really appreciate you saying that. Thank you so much. I was honestly a bit humbled by the welcome and support from folks. I'm still reeling from it.
Thanks again!
Love this historic content from primary sources, looking forward to more!
I'm so glad to hear that! I think you'll enjoy my video on the Blackmoor game I played, which I'm working on now. Thank you so much for watching and commenting. I really appreciate it. And thanks for your support of the channel!
Thanks for the video! Do The Hucklebuck! 😄Glad you had fun at DaveCon. I'll share this with some old timers soon. :)
Thanks, Mark! I appreciate you watching, commenting, and sharing! They've already announced the dates for DaveCon 2025, if you're interested. 😀
@@daddyrolleda1 I think my days of traveling so far a distance for a convention might be behind me but living here in Lake Geneva takes some of the sting out of it. Keep making videos so I can live vicariously through them!
Will do! Thanks again for watching!
Always such a informative video the early history of rpgs. Your such an inspiration for my humble channel, I hope you have a good game next time you play and keep your shield arm strong man!
Thank you! I really appreciate you watching and commenting, and good luck with your channel. Cheers!
Given the context of getting killed in that first duel, it's interesting to see when Arneson ran his own Braunstein, one character's notes made staying alive a condition for success! On a side note, at DaveCon I learned via a miniatures games using Mr. Wesely's Strategos-N rules: the numerical difference between an attacker's and defender's die rolls determines the decisiveness of the result. So, the duel where Jim Clark rolled high and Arneson rolled low (snake eyes IIRC?), that wargaming concept probably informed the difference between first blood, or losing an eye, or as what was adjudicated, being run through the heart!
Sorry for the delay, but thank you so much for watching and commenting! And yes, I learned that, too, about the die rolls and heard also that Arneson rolled snake eyes, whereas Jim Clark rolled an 11 I think? Something like that - it was a really big difference and Wesely decided it was too big to allow a chance for Arneson to have lived.
Cheers!
Like all the deep historical gaming stuff you discuss this was absolutely fascinating.
My understanding has long been that to really get the deep roots and ongoing cross pollination of these hobbies you have to go really deep into the various obscure pockets of praxis, much of which is over so long a time and oft so obscure as to be all but impossible for any one person to maintain in their head for a meaningful period.
Thank you so much for your support and for complementing the channel. I really appreciate it!
And yes, I think you're quite right. As a "spoiler" for an upcoming video, for example, I've learned that a lot of times when people talk about "the first Blackmoor game..." they mean THEIR first time playing Blackmoor, not the actual first time it was played. That nuance has gotten lost over time, so like you said, I think it's all a bit muddled together.
Thanks again!
Much appreciated video!
I'm so glad you enjoyed it! Thank you so much for watching and for letting me know. Cheers!
In the 60's and Early 70's There was a massive Hyborian Age Campaign that had roleplaying elements run by some of the Greats of the Wargaming world at the time. I believe it was organised originally by Tony Bath
Yes, indeed! You've got it correct - Tony Bath. I have mentioned Hyborian Age here before on the channel, interestingly enough in my video on the history of D&D's 6 Ability Scores: ua-cam.com/video/OSa1fwcxsG8/v-deo.html
So glad I found your channel! I just got back into D&D form 3.5E but your videos have been a great help for inspiration!
I'm glad you found it, too! And I'm especially glad you find the channel inspirational. Thanks for letting me know, and for your support. Cheers!
Great video once again! This time of year I'm normally at Jazz Fest but this year was in Europe, maybe next year! And I love the Bonus, both for the cocktails (not a beer drinker) and music (despite not being into Jazz really)!
Oh, very cool! I haven't been to Europe for far too long (last time was 2006 when my wife and I went to Scotland and Ireland). We had a trip to Paris planned to go with my daughter a few years ago - my wife won a bid at my daughter's school's annual fund auction of someone who owned an apartment in Paris right next to a famous museum (I just forgot the name; not the Louvre, but an impressionist guy I think). In any event, we had our plane tickets, apartment, and everything lined up and then: LOCKDOWNS! And while we were on lockdown, the folks had to sell their apartment because they couldn't afford it, so we never got to go.
I've been to Jazz Fest once again back ~2012 (I recall Bruce Springsteen was there, but I was much more excited to see Sun Ra and Chick Corea) because my wife's client was one of the sponsors and she had to work there, so I tagged along.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting, and for staying through the bonus content! I'll be featuring some non-jazz albums soon! Cheers!
@@daddyrolleda1 thank you for the reply! Hope you do get to Paris, this was my second visit with a few days in Dublin too. As an old cocktail and music lover you will find NOLA quite fun to revisit! And I look forward to the next video!
another great video Martin and glad to hear it seems like you had a great time. One day I'd love to attend a convention like this. Never have sadly.. RPG or Board game both of which I love and have played for 45 odd years.
I was a little apprehensive about attending because I don't necessarily like being in large crowds and also I felt like I might be somewhat of an outsider at this point, but my fears were silly! It was the perfect size (for me) and everyone was so nice and welcoming.
I also play board games and another convention I do like is called "Shut Up and Sit Down" (or "SHUX") which is held in Vancouver in October. The name just means that it's all about gaming. It's a very welcoming type place where folks are just there to game, and I've had a great time there with my friends.
I hope you attend a convention some day. They can be a lot of fun!
Thank you so much for watching and commenting!
@@daddyrolleda1 the same for me.. even knowing that once I did go it would probably be exactly as you said it was. I got my eye on a Traveller convention close by (in PA) in the fall and might finally attend one.
@@michaelberry6016 Excellent! Good luck and if you do attend, let me know how it goes!
@@daddyrolleda1 thanks Martin I certainly will and keep up the great videos. Yours is one of my top two favorite RPG UA-cam sites. Love your videos.
Yay! - prewatch algorithm comment 😊
Very much appreciated!
I loved hearing about your experiences at DaveCon, especially the growing recognition you are receiving for your excellent channel. Good on you.
I appreciate that so very much! Thank you for your support of the channel. Cheers!
I've been learning a lot about TTRPG history every since I started listening and watching this channel.
Hope to attend a TTRPG game soon as well.
This comment made me so happy. Thank you for sharing this, and I hope you get to a game soon! Cheers!
@@daddyrolleda1 Cheers to you too!
It's an amazing play style and we're doing them quite a bit lately.
That's very cool to hear!
I wanted very much to be there for it, but I had other obligations. Here's hoping I can meet you next year
That would be great! I do hope to attend next year as well, but I will need to look at my finances, as I'm also considering attending GaryCon, as I've never been to that one. It will also depend on my daughter's spring break schedule. But, all that said, I highly recommend going if you are able!
been subbed for about a year but never commented, love your content, hearing a player perspective of braunstein is a treat!
Thank you so much for your support! And thanks for commenting on this specific video. I'm really glad you enjoyed it. Cheers!
Nice video. Very thorough, and it's great you are introducing a new batch of players to this style of game.
Lemme know if you wantnto talk to a few guys that are running Braunsteins set in and influencing their current RPG campaigns. We've been experimenting with this aort of game for a few years and have learned a lot about how to use them. They are an absolute blast.
Great video and it was fun getting to relive all of those moments that you touched on! Such an incredible experience and I'm so glad we got to connect at the con! I did chuckle hearing you stumble over trying to make sense of the final Braunstein melee, ha ha. That was nuts. 😊
It was so great getting to meet and chat with you!
And yes, that final blood bath was crazy, but what's really fun is folks involved, including Student B and Student O as well as the Pigeon Seller and other folks all jumped in to the comments later to explain their version of what happened. It's like a little community formed there at the convention and it was fun to see them all jump into the comments to chat about it!
Thank you for this! I'm listening to it right now.
Thank you for listening and for commenting! I really appreciate it!
@@daddyrolleda1 Yeah, I'm just glad you're not a right-winger. Right-wing UA-cam is too ubiquitous for me. I prefer TikTok as a result.
Great video. I watched Questing beasts video too. This looks like a wildly fun way to game. Did David W mention publishing any of the info for others to run his game?
Thanks for watching, as always!
He mentioned Barons of Braunstein, which is a modern published game by Olde House Rules but which is based on Dave Wesely's original Braunstein game. Here's a link: www.oldehouserules.com/barons-of-braunstein.html
He was selling copies of this at the convention and gave a copy away to one of the folks voted "most self-interested" in the group. I think at this point, that's as close as one can get, although I did get the impression that there might be more on the horizon.
I also forgot to mention that Dave gave away some copies of a very old TSR game, Valley Forge, along with his revisions to the game (of which he printed many copies that went unsold back in the day), which was really cool.
I hope that helps!
@@daddyrolleda1 oh awesome! Thank you. I didn’t know that existed. I picked up the pdf and I’m looking forward to reading it.
I asked him on the last day if any of his official/original scenarios have been published - he said it's in the works right now. So stay tuned I guess!
I've only ever been to one con, last year's Origins, but if you decide to hit up next year's Origins (and I'm not away at some auto plant, the reason I missed this year) I'll see you there.
Origins and GenCon are two conventions that I'd like to go to at least once in my life. We'll see!
I didn't get to say hi at Davecon. But I am saying hi now. Hi!
Oh, darn! It would've been great to meet you! Hopefully there will be another opportunity in the future. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Interesting. It kind of reminds me of a cross between Diplomacy and Draw!
That's a fun way to look at it, and honestly not too far off. Diplomacy was mentioned quite a few times in other historical analyses of the time.
Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for your support!
The old but not as old tabletop game Junta has no RPG mechanics but lets you juggle power and money in a little banana republic. You get a simple wargame that kicks in the moment someone wants a coup. Large army units starts outside town, the police inside the city, mobs can join etc. They are decided fast.
Thanks for this! I am pretty unfamiliar with Junta, but I just looked it up and saw that one of the designers was none other than Steve Marsh, of 1981 D&D Expert Rules fame! What a small world!
@@daddyrolleda1 It sounds like Braunstein threw out that sort of wargame remnants. It sounds like you did not control your different groups in the city through some wargame mechanic. No chits portraying student mobs moving against landwehr units.
Junta has some fun ideas for coups. All players are part of the junta, all have at least one office. The worst you can do is make someone admiral of the symbolic little navy with one ship outside the harbour. Army brigades are large but need to trek into town. El Presidente can only personally command the palace guard and hope the people they assigned to offices are loyal. Both sides win by seizing points like the TV station. The police is smaller but starts inside town. Players can use cards and political influence to rile up mobs from different voter groups. It's as close to an RPG as Diplomacy, you will be talking a lot but not necessarily roleplaying in a funny hat.
Warhammer was half wargame and half RPG early on. You also had a referee and character goals. They have ideas about double-blind deployment and goals, and neutral forces and environment effects run by the ref. In one Challenge scenario the ref is instructed to play a shapeshifting space vampire hiding in one player unit. Specialist games like Gorkamorka/Necromunda/Mordheim and most of all Inquisitor got even closer to a skirmish/personal scale.
I want to check out what skirmish/battle systems from TSR did. Like Chainmail and the battle card system deviced for Birthright. Birthright came at the tail end of TSR and was supposed to be the big domain play setting. You start level 1-3 as a baron or merchant prince or archwizard. They decided that cards with unit stats was cheaper than models. You draw a deck of cards with combat resolution matrices.
Call of Cthulhu does a good job at having individual player goals and group collective goals. I think that it does makes games a lot better. At least when it comes to investigative cosmic horror. It means that a player might be looking for a cooked accountant ledger and someone else might be looking for a borrowed book, but they both uncover a cosmic horror together.
Call of Cthulhu, especially some of the older adventures, include a lot of investigation. The characters manage time, and every investigator don't go to the barrister or look up court records or watch the old barn. You get together when you think you got all you need or when time runs out.
Also if you want to check out some more recent jazz, try Davina and the Vagabonds to honor your recent visit to the twin cities. Great New Orleans style jazz music for some future bonus content.
Reminds me of the old song - These are the Dave's I know. ua-cam.com/video/8nvzEqsZIGo/v-deo.html
I'd totally forgotten about that! I wish I had remembered it in my video. I may reference it in a future one. Thanks for the reminder!
@@daddyrolleda1 lol
Listening I was just thinking... but that is a LARP... eventually you said so 🙂
Ha! Yes, that was my impression as well. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Some really old kriegsspiel versions wanted to solve a lot more with rolls and rules. But from what I understand they grew into too much management. So a senior officer as referee remained the norm.
The whole concept of how games like that became crucial to a military's success is fascinating to me. The way Dave Wesely describes it, by the time they were playing Strategos-N in ~1965, the Minneapolis/Twin Cities area had more war gamers than any other place in the U.S. other than an actual war college.
@@daddyrolleda1 The prussian staff officers who would have played it much earlier had a lot more practical, living experience of it. They seem to have a referee or more who sometimes freeform arbitrate what happens. They reach some conclusion they can't make a table for all the things they know decide combat. But a few older officers can intuitively arbitrate outcomes.
I'd have to read how made-for-civilians Little Wars played, where they push around lead figures on a floor at home instead of a staff office. The officer corps in Europe in the 19th century is starting to grow into a professional corps instead of blokes of good reputation who showed up.
Very early wargames and later RPGs here assumed you would pour your own miniatures using lead and molds. Prince August sold a line of fantasy figures you could make in a kitchen.
Strategic planning using wargames continued. There was UK staff officers, mostly women, who played a sort of submarine wargame through the war to figure out how hypothetical detection systems worked. Using a double-blind system of hidden movement for both sides.
You, there. Yes, you.
Subscribe.
+5 Jazz
Nice to meet a fellow jazz fan! Thank you for watching all the way through to the end. I really appreciate it. And thanks for your support of the channel. Cheers!
I can't hear the name of this game without thinking of Guns N' Roses.
Braunstein was NOT a Role playing game. Yes, there were roles, and it was a game, but there is a huge difference between a girl who is your friend, and your girlfriend. RPGs have stats, advancement, etc. But IF Braunstein is a RPG (it's not) then Little Wars (1913) by HG Wells was first- you had a role- General, and it was a game. So, Arneson invented the RPG, no one else. I am tired of people trying to steal Dave Arneson's- who I played with once- credit.
That's what I had always thought as well, but the folks at the convention including Dave Megarry, Mike Carr, and Kevin McColl (not to mention Dave Wesely), all of whom hold Dave Arneson in very high regard, all say that Braunstein shows all the hallmarks of being a roleplaying game. I certainly don't get the impression that any of those people are trying to take any credit away from Dave Arneson at all. I think the main train of thought is to ensure that Gary Gygax stops getting all the credit for having done so, as was claimed for many years.
I think you're splitting hairs. Role Playing has many definitions whether a game or not. What makes it a game, in my opinion, is the goal aspect and the referee.
Dave did not invent role playing out of thin air but as with most things there is a string of ideas. Braunstein is just one of the links in the chain probably the last link before Blackmoor .
The boring nature of your character seems like a happy accident to me. Although, you're probably right that the additional characters were rushed, I still like the idea of a generic character. Not everyone can be a hero. Not everyone needs to be a character in Vecinos with a wacky background. I am a pretty boring person, but it would still be fun to role-play a regular person getting wrapped up in a major plot. How would I handle it in real life? Would I get involved and fight for what I think is right or just try to protect what is mine and keep my head down?
That is cool that you got to meet other famous people lihe Professor DM
Yes, that was awesome! He was so welcoming to me, and he even recognized me from the logo shirt I was wearing and called me out during his first seminar (telling folks to watch my channel), which I felt was really above and beyond and showed what a classy guy he is. He then went further to introduce me to Baron de Ropp (who hadn't watched my channel yet, but who immediately began looking at my videos and offering suggestions on how to improve my thumbnails) and also Justin Alexander (with whom I'd corresponded by doing a review of his book, but had never met in person). They all could not have been kinder.
Regarding (modern and high) german pronunciation: Braun in german and brown in english are actually pretty close (to get a little closer, say brown but skip the w and go straight to the n, maybe a hint of the "ou" in "you" in between). The "ei" in Stein should sound more like the the "I" in english, an not like the ee in "spleen": upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/De-Stein2.ogg
But, close enough. This isn´t a german test, after all.
Regarding the mystical german "Stein" mug, never seen one. Not really a thing in Germany. However, Stein is an old measurement for weight. Between 3000g (~3L) and 10000g (~10l)....I would like to see _that_ mug....
That would be a huge mug!
Dave Wesely had a stein on the table (you can see it in some of the photos) to use as a prop to help us remember how to pronounce it. It cracked me up, but it was effective.
Thanks for watching and commenting!