Hi Martin, I played the Peasant forces around the monastery at DaveCon. It was great to meet you. I got the idea to "loot" the monastery for safekeeping from the instructions Dave wrote on the sheet I got. It said I must guard the loot at the monastery at all costs and the nearby houses if possible. It also said I could loot the monastery myself (to return safely later). That implied to me I could take the loot somewhere else (off the board). I had two horse-drawn carts so I asked Bill if I could remove loot that way. He smiled and said, yes. He said he only remembered one other person trying to do that. The "Baron" player overheard that I was looting the monastery and came to put a stop to it, about the time he was dispatching your bandits. He was going to move against me, but I plead innocent that I was only safekeeping it from the invaders. That seemed to mollify him and he even helped me defend against the Vikings once they showed up. My success only came I think because your forces were on the other side of the river. Had you moved against me in force before the Vikings came I don't think I would have lasted too long. It was really fun and gloriously chaotic. I, too, was expecting more of a Bob Meyer-type Blackmoor game. What Bill ran seemed to be almost a mass-skirmish war game with role-playing elements. I talked to Bill a bit during the game and it sounds like that what we played evolved into the Blackmoor dungeon-based game once something crawled into the dungeons of the castle. Then fantasy elements started creeping in like Duane Jenkins' character getting bit by a vampire bat, becoming Sir Fang, and then someone became a cleric to stop them. It seemed like it slowly, but organically, mutated from this skirmish war game into the first D&D.
Thank you! I had forgot to mention in my video, even though I wrote a bullet point note in my notebook, that you were the one who "won" the game! I seem to recall... 97 points?!?! Makes my paltry 19 looks terrible, but there were folks who scored less than me. Thanks for the recap and also a peak into your strategy. The table was so big, we were so spread out, and it was so loud, that I felt like there were folks at the table with whom I didn't interact much. Also, thanks for the bit at the end regarding your conversation with Bill Hoyt about the evolution of these games and styles of play. I really appreciate it. Cheers!
That was a typo. The first RPG game was played in Dave Arneson's family home basement on April 17th, 1971, at 1:00pm. This is both a matter of historical record and a matter of court record. There is not now, nor has there ever been any debate about it. The flyers still exist
I really enjoyed the revelation that there was a "war-gamier" transition between Braunstein and the dungeon delving iteration of Blackmoor that Arneson demonstrated for Gygax and friends. (They needed to cut down on the number of Daves in the history of D&D. Far too confusing) It really highlighted that the evolution of Blackmoor was much more gradual step by step than one giant leap. Looking forward to the next video!
I'm so glad you enjoyed it, and yes, that's part of the thing I was trying to discuss (the evolution/transition from Braunstein -> Blackmoor -> D&D) and it will be a bit clearer in my next video. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
These videos on the precursors of modern day role playing games are really interesting. Not sure if you covered it yet, but I actually got a copy of Outdoor Survival, which is listed in the things you need in the instructions of D&D. It sure is a different type game than we’re used to today.
Thank you so much for commenting! I'm glad you are finding these history videos interesting. I haven't covered Outdoor Survival yet, but that is a good topic for a potential future video. Thank you!
We had a copy of Outdoor Survival in our lake cabin in Maine that I remember playing with as a kid. Sadly no D&D boxes around to combine it with. Don’t know what happened to it but a few years ago I got a replacement. 🙂
You are missing out on a ton if you haven't played the original setting on the physical board. Barsoom, joust the video game, 3 hearts and 3 lions all mixed into a vastly wild board complete with Geas, castles and sea monsters in the river. The 3bb+chainmail with ODS is Amazing.
Started playing BECMI in 1987, about 10-15 years later got Outdoor Survival at a thrift store. Never knew that board game was used in that way. Though when I saw it in the thrift store, and saw that it used a hex map, I immediately thought of a D&D map.
What an amazing opportunity you had to play at that convention, Martin. And I think you were just the right guy to have it. Thanks for documenting and sharing!
The notice in CoTT Vol 3 NO. 4 was for "medevil BRAUNSTEIN" was actually for April 1971. The 0 was a typo. This CoTT was published in the spring of '71. The main direct thread linking the wargame you played with Bill Hoyt is that the Duke in that game is the "Duke of Keston" and Arneson also had "Kieston" as a central location on his 1971 Blackmoor map per the letter he sent to Rob Kuntz in March. This is because Bill Hoyt lived on Keston street at the time.
Thanks for the video! Good stuff and I always learn something new and have other historical game facts clarified when I watch your videos. My Ex and I used to frequent jazz clubs in Milwaukee and Chicago back in the early 80s and, while I am mainly a prog rock guy, I also love jazz from all eras, though I am most familiar with stuff from the 70s, 80s, and 90s. I used to love hanging out on the lawn at Ravinia (check out the wiki page for Ravinia Festival, including the Martin Theater and their "Martinis at the Martin" cabaret series) listening to Pat Metheny and many others. Feel free to check out some albums from those days, if you like.
Thanks so much, Mark! I've listened to some Pat Metheny before but don't have any of his albums on vinyl. I really like the idea of "Martinis at the Martin"! That sounds amazing! I do have a "fun" (?) prog rock album by... William Shatner. But it's really by Billy Sherwood from Yes. My friend gave it to me kind of as a joke, but perhaps I could showcase in the bonus content sometime as a goof.
I think it makes so much sense that there are all these games that are varied chimeras of wargaming, Braunstein-style roleplay, Blackmoor-style roleplay, and random experiments and additions. As you note, they weren't so much trying to design a game for others to play as just creating games they were interested in, and they were riffing on each other's ideas and games they play together previously. It was truly an evolution rather than a design process. Thanks for sharing your experiences at the con, particularly all the games you played and the conversations you had, as they are certainly both enlightening and interesting :)
Thank you so much for watching and for this detailed comment. I really appreciate it, and I'm so glad you enjoyed the video. More to come on this as well! Cheers!
This battle represents Dave Arneson's attempt to use the rules from the Castle and Crusades Society (which would be published in the Domesday Book, and later become Chainmail) to run a medieval battle while he was developing Blackmoor from Braunstein. David later said he was not happy with those rules as they (1) had no man-to-man combat, just unit-to-unit combat like most wargame rules from that time frame; (2) the players were not role-playing individual characters, but commanders of units (again, like nearly all wargame rules from that time frame); However, he e could add individual different objectives for each player (UN- like most wargame rules from that time frame). And he was using a referee (a la Strategos-N and Braunstein) to allow players "to try anything, but not always successfully" and to provide for hidden movement, uncertain times of arrival and so on. And it was possible (not certain, but possible) to have multiple players "win" because it was not a zero-sum game. So he was feeling his way forward towards the Blackmoor RPG that he eventually created. To comment on other things you have said here- Dave Arneson's biggest problem with being a referee/gm/dm in Strategos, Braunstein and Blackmoor games came from older players refusing to "take orders from a kid". When Dave Arneson joined the MMSA he was still in High School, while I was 3 years older than he was and had just turned 21. The drinking age in Minnesota was 21; so I could get together with the older members of MMSA, but David could not... drinking was a very big part of showing you were "grown up" (or maybe "groan up" in the MMSA. It marked a huge watershed, and many of the players David would have so much trouble with were either older than I was, or were the kind of "wild" kids that were going to cheat and drink anyhow - which David was not. In 1968 , when I run the first Braunstein, David is still too young to legally drink, but having the game in my father's basement is neutral ground, so David and those older gamers can all be involved in that game - and one of them can kill him in the famous duel! Interestingly, the two gamers leaning over a green table in the picture that you have in this article, are Mike Norman and Jim Clark: JIm (holding the yardstick) played the Prussian Jaeger Colonel that killed Dave in that duel. I have not seen a picture of Mike for many years, so I am glad you included it. "Student A" is so named in my restaging of Braunstein 1 because he was Arneson the first time. By Oct 1970, when I left for the Army and Arneson took over running Braunstein, he was 22, so any legal reason he could not hang out in their games had vanshed, but their relationships had already been set. Arneson's opponents had set up their own breanch of the MMSA, but Dave got along OK without them. As the MMSA grew, more and more of the players were younger than Dave, so his authority as a Referee was no longer seriously challenged.
Holy heck, this has to be one of the best comments sections on a UA-cam video I've ever stumbled though. Thanks for taking the time to fill in that bit man. To someone like me, you're almost a mythical figure so just coming this comment feels like the first time you get a shiny Pokemonn heh.
@TheRyujinLP I had the same thought when I saw Mr. Wesely reply to my video, and I'd already had the pleasure of meeting with him and playing in a game he ran! But the fact that he sought out my video, watched it, and took the time to comment means so much!
@weseld1 Thank you so very much for watching my video and then taking the time to comment on it! It was such an honor to meet you and play in your Braunstein game at DaveCon, and I am very appreciative that you took the time to add some context to the things I was talking about in my video. All my best to you and I hope to game with you again!
"Young men pushing against the authority of an even younger man" makes _so_ much more sense than _"Ohmagod,_ my dice rolling game sometimes has _different_ results!"
There was a really fun comic book series once called "Rat Queens" which is about a group of female fantasy adventurers, very much in a D&D type setting (there's a dwarf fighter, a "smidgen" which is a halfling thief, a half-elf magic-user, and a human cleric). The premise is that they compete with other adventuring groups to take on jobs and get paid. One of the competing group of adventurers is called "The Four Daves" and I always wondered if it was called that in tribute to Dave Wesely, Arneson, and Megarry (and then other Dave I don't know?). The writer has really solid gaming chops, so I wouldn't be surprised. Thanks for watching and commenting!
The castle and figures seemed to be made by Airfix in England. They used to sell a set of Robin of Sherwood which included a castle, Rohin Hood and the Merry Men plus the Sheriff of Nottingham and his men.
Yes! I didn't know that, but one other person here in the comments has confirmed as much! Great eye! Thank you so much for your support of the channel!
Thanks for this deep dive into your experience with Blackmoor (and all your past deep dives). I especially wanted to just say a huge thanks for pointing me to Empire Jazz. I remember seeing that around occasionally as a kid in the 80s, but did not have a taste for jazz back then. My tastes have changed and this is a hoot! (I'm listening to it now.) Cheers!
Thank you so much for staying through to the bonus content at the end! I really appreciate it and I'm glad you're able to listen to the album. I'm also very happy you are enjoying the history videos. Thanks for your support. Cheers!
You must not go to many miniature conventions. Massive multiplayer free-for-alls have been standard convention games for at least 50 years. But you can see how changing the location to a dungeon and making the game cooperative was the beginning of changing a skirmish campaign into a roleplaying game.
Yes, that's correct on both: I don't really attend a lot of conventions, and I also don't play miniatures games a lot (or at all, not since playing Warhmamer 40k back in the mid-90s!). I'm slowly starting to go to move conventions. I tend not to always do well in large groups of people - same reason my wife to the Cruel World Festival here in Pasadena at the Rose Bowl yesterday and I stayed home! Thanks for watching and commenting.
That's a fun term/explanation! I'm so glad you enjoyed the videos. I was thrilled to attend the convention and I'm glad more folks are finding out about these foundational times of our hobby and that D&D didn't just spring up overnight! Cheers!
The green plastic miniatures are from Airfix 1/72 Robin Hood boxed set. The gray ones were from the Sherrif of Notingham set iirc. We used them in medieval miniature games in the 70s (along with metal / lead miniatures). The Airfix figures were smaller than the 25 mm metals, but they made up numbers inexpensively. When we started playing D&D (summer 1974) we kept using them. Fun tines.
Oh, that's awesome! Thanks for those details! It was really amazing to open the box and realize that folks had been playing with these figures for over 50 years! Using a "Robin Hood" series of figures for my bandits was perfect! Thanks again for watching and commenting.
Great stuff. My Blackmoor game with Bob Meyer at Gary Con was definitely very different, as it was a castle/dungeon delve. Yet both modes of play are true to what the campaign is: A multi-faceted affair that sort of zooms in and out from large scale wargaming to individual hero character action as desired. Published D&D formalized this division by making the "domain game" something you effectively unlock at higher character levels. At the same time, though, this perhaps inadvertently de-emphasized the wargame aspect simply due to the fact that many players never had their characters and campaigns last that long, making the individual scale stuff feel like the default or "real" game and dooming the wargaming element to be ever less explored over time.
Thank you so much for sharing (and confirming what I'd heard!) your experience about the Bob Meyer Blackmoor game at GaryCon! I really like your theory about how lower-level characters, not having achieved domain level "status" ended up becoming the default style of play due to many campaigns not running high-level characters. That seems like an entirely reasonable hypothesis! Thanks for sharing! And thanks very much for watching and commenting. Cheers!
@@chiblast100x I believe the Blackmoor campaign was always evolving (still is!) and that what style of game it is depends largely on the personal tastes of the referee. I got the impression from Secrets of Blackmoor that some of Dave's bunch were hard-core wargamers who never cottoned as much to the fantasy elements, and others were totally into it, with a few being impartial. There also seemed to be a revolving cast of players throughout the years, some of whom experienced only one particular style of the campaign, so when they talk about how they remember Blackmoor, I tend to keep that in mind. A little bit of personal preference, and a little bit of what period of the evolution of the game they actually witnessed. That's why you get slightly different stories from Svenson, from Hoyt, from Meyer, etc.
It was so crazy and fun and chaotic all at the same time. I'm so glad you enjoyed watching a bit about it, and I thank you for your support of the channel. Cheers!
My understanding is that Corner of the Table newsletter is from 1971, so the 1970 date is a typo; doesn't really change what you're saying, though! I think it's super-cool Mr. Hoyt took you into the Castle & Crusade Society medieval miniatures era of Blackmoor. Being at DaveCon, hearing from these folks, sometimes talking directly with them, is actually a childhood dream come true. I started with the Holmes Basic set, and Gygax's foreword about the C&C Society and Blackmoor captivated me -- I was entranced by that feeling of misty pre-history. I dreamed and wondered what those days were like... I never imagined that over 40years later I'd play on Arneson's actual table (with some of my 40+ yr old dice), see the actual castle, and hear amazing tidbits directly from folks who were there. Personally, DaveCon delivered for me well beyond what I expected.
Oh wow! That would have been amazing, but also I do understand that sometimes it might not occur to someone during such a meeting to use it as an opportunity to talk about stuff. I only did at this convention because that was part of my reason for attending and I had confirmed ahead of time that I could chat with/interview these folks. That said, you'll notice I don't have a *ton* of pictures, especially of me with folks, as my focus was just on "being in the moment" and taking it all in. Thank you so much for watching and commenting. I really appreciate it.
Interesting... I'd not thought of it that way. I think there's some connective ideas between all three games both in terms of mechanics as well as settings. So glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching and commenting!
Hi Martin. Another possible arena for video ideas to take a D&D function and give its historical development and then your take on it. Like why encumbrance was developed, a cleric's ability to turn undead, weapon specialization, thieves skills, etc.
Thanks, Scott! Great ideas and I can add them to my list of potential upcoming topics! I did briefly chat about Thief skills in a few videos: * ua-cam.com/video/As1ibQLA0Ls/v-deo.htmlsi=v3PQM0q8Xdiy4AEI * ua-cam.com/video/t3wcfkXr_VQ/v-deo.htmlsi=cITT7ir-GCcotsyB However, I do take your point and I like your ideas. Thanks!
You mentioned the first cleric, the Blackmore thief, why XP and HP and descending AC -- I would really like to hear about how those ideas came to pass -- especially the descending AC!
All those will be coming up in a later video. It might take a week or two while I parse through my notes and figure out how to weave all those elements together in a way that flows. But it should be fun! Thanks for your interest and for your support of the channel!
Yes! That is my hope and I designed it in a way that the mechanics can easily be stripped out and/or modified on the fly to be applicable to pretty much any fantasy class-and-level system. Thank you for noticing!
@@childrenofthenight8461 Dave Wesely partnered with the folks at Olde House Rules to publish Barons of Braunstein, which you can get at DriveThruRPG: www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/139125/Barons-of-Braunstein It's not 100% exactly like the Braustein came I played but it'll give you an idea.
Thank you very much for watching and commenting! I do have long videos and I've thought about reducing the length but every time I think about doing so, I get an outcry from folks who say they prefer my longform content. Even Professor Dungeon Master from DungeonCraft told me not to change the format. So, I think I've found a niche that, although it probably affects how quickly my channel will grow and there will always be folks who are turned off by an hour plus long video, there are other folks like you who give me a chance! So, thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
very well done. The original Braunstein did have turns. But when he redid the game, he removed them. That was to reflect what the players did. Not what he wanted to do. Which was kind of funny. The fall of 1970 magic started getting introduced into the game of Blackmoor. We can talk more.
I do enjoy Paper Planes quite bit Equal parts cocktails are fun, Last Word I has been a good way to get people to drink gin, but alas, Chartreuse… As for the non bonus content, that’s not at all what I pictured Blackmoor as, but sounds pretty rad.
The "Blackmoor" game we played was part of an evolution, and as I've been finding out, there isn't one "true" Blackmoor game that was created and run the same way each time, but rather a series of games, some focused more on wargaming, some more on roleplaying, some on exploration, and all were being played concurrently. That's why, as I've been discovering, it's difficult to say "What's the fist Blackmoor game?" and also, "How did it become D&D?" But I've really been enjoying the process of learning more about the connections and I'm glad you are enjoying the exploration in my videos! Nice to meet a fellow cocktail fan! My dad immediately went out and bought me a bottle of Green Chartreuse right after he heard it was going to be difficult to get. I've been holding onto it like a precious resource! I've seen other folks working on their own versions and I'm sure sooner or later there will become a new "standard" Chartreuse replacement that folks use. Thanks for your support of the channel!
Great video, as always, Martin! I find these deep dives into Blackmoor and Braunstein so interesting. The names are always bandied about when someone talks about the origins of DnD, but they’re largely glosses over I find. I’d love to see something similar done with Chainmail. I know it’s not an RPG per se, but I’d love to hear what you could dig up on it. Thanks for the great content. Can’t wait for that next video!
I do indeed! It's part of my "D&D History" playlist. Here's a link: ua-cam.com/video/7YaswaQqtLg/v-deo.htmlsi=VkCsW4F4FhXbkPtF I hope you enjoy! Thanks for watching and commenting.
I love your videos so much, especially these history focused ones. I started playing in 2015 with 1e so i love these older games a lot more and these speak to me as a player. I was so interested in the history of game during the pandemic that i found the blackmoor documentary and it became the first setting i ever knew about out side of my homebrew and ive always wanted to play in blackmoor since then especially with how close to my personal style stuff was back then with scifi and other elements mixed in that i love. I also own a copy of first fantasy campaign that i had printed in hard cover from a pdf and its one of my treasured possessions along eith my replica 2e rome green book.
Thank you so much for watching, and for commenting, and especially for your support of the channel. I really appreciate it! Also, thank you for sharing your story about how you got into the hobby. I always love reading stories like this, and I'm so glad you found my channel! I acquired my copy of First Fantasy Campaign during the early days of the Pandemic lockdowns once I figured out how much money I was saving by not eating out, going to the pub, or buying weekly comics (since there was a window where new comics weren't being published). So, I found a copy on Ebay and got it for (relatively) cheap (considering what it's actually worth!). I don't have the Glory of Rome book in physical format, but I have the PDF, and I do have other Green Historical Books (Charlemagne's Paladins, A Mighty Fortress, and the Crusades), plus I have Vikings in PDF. How did you come to *start* with 1E in 2015?! That must be an interesting story!
Another great video Martin! One thing that I don't believe you called out in the video (and maybe you weren't at the table when Bill Hoyt announced it) is that the handwriting on those photocopied character sheets Bill gave us (for Bandits, Rescue Force, etc.) is from Dave Arneson himself. 🙂
Thanks, Kevin! I did not hear Bill Hoyt say that, but I kind of thought that might be the case considering he gave us photocopies of handwritten sheets versus typing them up to make them easier to read. I do recall someone shouting out from across the table that "Peasants" was spelled "Pheasants" which was confirmed when I saw that sheet on Jon Peterson's "Playing at the World." I totally should have mentioned it, but just forgot as I was recording. I'll mention it in a future video. Thanks!
I can certainly look for one of those early albums when I'm crate digging! I did chat about some of his later work with Velvet Underground (specifically, "Loaded") in a prior video. Thanks for the suggestion!
@@daddyrolleda1 Loaded, released 1970, is a fantastic album. Velvet Underground is Lou Reed's first band Metal Machine Music was released in 1975 and is an interesting album that can challenge what one's paradigm of music is
@@DuivelsApp that's an interesting take on MMM. Reed later admitted it was a contractual obligation stunt. Brian Eno had been doing soundscapes before that, like Music for Airports.
The obvious question I have is: So how did Blackmoor evolve into D&D. I can somewhat see how from this video, but I do wonder what the progression was. Cool video.
More in that to come. It's a much more complicated and complex situation than "First X, then Y, then D&D." I'll be adding more videos on the subject as time goes on. I do hope you stick around to learn more, but in the meantime, thank you so much for watching and for your comment. Cheers!
Ha! That's an interesting point! There was a hotel restaurant that I ate at a couple of times with the gang, but that particular day just due to scheduling, I hadn't had anything to eat since breakfast (the Blackmoor game started at 4pm and went past 10pm as I recall) so there was no chance to get it dirty with anything! But I do take your point. When I run D&D for my daughter and her friends, we always have a nice spread of snacks and I make a point to let the players hang out for ~30 minutes before we play, to snack and to catch up, and then we take snack breaks to visit the snack table, which is typically in another room. That helps avoid getting "greasy meat hooks" over my vintage modules I'm running for them!
I sadly did not. As a kid, I had begun developing a Star Wars RPG "in my head" while I spent a summer at my grandma's house mowing her lawn with a manual (push) lawn mower. Not too long after that, I heard about WEG's "Star Wars" RPG, and rather than being excited, I was angry that I hadn't committed to finishing my game and getting it published (as though someone would have actually published my ideas at that time). I've heard great things and have often wanted to go back and revisit it.
awesome, I hadn't heard or seen that SW Jazz record before. If you want to completely switch it up, looks at one of the records by 80s Welsh rock group The Alarm. I only mention that because singer songwriter MIke Peters is in a bad way, he just found out he has a super aggressive form of lymphoma, after beating cancers 3x in the 90s and 2000s.
I hope you enjoy listening to it when you get a chance! I stumbled across it at a record store in Hollywood called "Record Parlour" years ago and snapped it up immediately for quite a reasonable price, especially considering it still had most of its original shrink wrap! I hadn't heard that about Mike Peters, but I do have at least one cassette (!) from the Alarm that I recall listening to a lot back in the dorms in college. I don't have any vinyl, but I'll snap one up if I come across it. Thanks for the suggestion!
I stay through the end of all your videos, just to improve your metrics. Your tastes in beverages is impeccable, but I don't drink anymore. I enjoy myself through your enjoyment. As to musics, man, you suck. I hate jazz with an unholy passion. Just don't slip into jam bands, and I'll be happy. ^_^
Thank you very much for watching all the way through to the end. I really appreciate it, especially since you no longer imbibe alcohol. I will make a note to try to include more non-alcoholic drinks in the future. Jazz is very polarizing and I know it's probably not very popular with my demographic. It's something I didn't really learn to appreciate until about ~23 years ago. I do appreciate you watching even though it's not for you! And I do have on my list to add more non-jazz (I've done a few, like Marvin Gaye, Bowie, the Clash, Johnny Cash...). Thanks again for your support!
How about something from this millennium? I've been listening to Chappell Roan ad nauseam. Also, more old school but might fit the vibe, Kate Bush. Pixies, Throwing Muses, or anyone realeased on 4AD. The Sisters of Mercy exist(ed?). I think we might could intersect at Philip Glass.
There is a.. ahem *cult* on twitter. Call themselves the "brOSR". Really pushing modern players to understand that D&D isnt about funny voices and backstories, it is about a collaborative multiplayer wargame. They are a bunch of knuckleheads, but their message is real. It is a conpletely different and arguably superior and more engaging game.
Yes, that's specifically why I avoided even using the term in the video. It might be "historically accurate" but I see no need to trigger someone who may have been traumatized by such an experience in their lives, and I would certainly never include scenes of such in any games I run. But like you said, being able to play in that game and understand where it fell in the evolution of how we got to D&D was really interesting. Thank you so much for your support of the channel. Cheers!
@@daddyrolleda1 Yeah, I probably would have made the same choice as you, it would be different if it was my GM/DM for a long-running game that was doing it. I admit I probably would have had a hard time abstaining from a comment about it in the moment even though in my experience those comments tend to be unwelcome. On a more positive note, I love that you took the initiative to get the gameplay going! I really enjoy being that person and also playing with other players who are proactive like that.
I definitely get where you're coming from. These sheets we were handed were photocopies of the original hand-written instructions written by Dave Arneson (in his writing) and Bill (who ran the game) wanted it to be an exact recreation of the original experience. I'm glad I took the initiative, also! I was the first to score any points, although ultimately it didn't work out. As a comparison of points, the guy who one (Peasant Force #2, who "looted" the monastery to save the treasures inside from the Invaders and Vikings) had about 97 and I think the 2nd-place player scored around 73. But there were definitely players who scored much lower than me!
Very well, I'll bite: which of the Lord of the Rings books, in your opinion, would be improved by a rape scene? Just because rape exists in real world doesn't mean that a. it needs to be included in a narrative b. it improves the narrative. If you can't deal with non-rapey games existing then I don't know what to tell you.
@@tuomasronnberg5244 What have the snowflakes done? If the Lord of the Rings was made now by the Snowflakes it would FAIL like all the other crap they peddle.
@@tuomasronnberg5244 Hasbro Lays Off 1100 Employees Just in Time for Christmas! Yeah, doing really great. I see you jump right to the extreme, how about this...they don't make a new Bambi game out of d&d!
Look up Dragon Magazine #103, Gary Gygax didn't approve of TSR bowing to people that didn't buy his product anyway so why change things? He would have left Devils and Demons the way they were! The new "Satanic Panic" are "Woke".
Hi Martin, I played the Peasant forces around the monastery at DaveCon. It was great to meet you. I got the idea to "loot" the monastery for safekeeping from the instructions Dave wrote on the sheet I got. It said I must guard the loot at the monastery at all costs and the nearby houses if possible. It also said I could loot the monastery myself (to return safely later). That implied to me I could take the loot somewhere else (off the board). I had two horse-drawn carts so I asked Bill if I could remove loot that way. He smiled and said, yes. He said he only remembered one other person trying to do that. The "Baron" player overheard that I was looting the monastery and came to put a stop to it, about the time he was dispatching your bandits. He was going to move against me, but I plead innocent that I was only safekeeping it from the invaders. That seemed to mollify him and he even helped me defend against the Vikings once they showed up. My success only came I think because your forces were on the other side of the river. Had you moved against me in force before the Vikings came I don't think I would have lasted too long. It was really fun and gloriously chaotic.
I, too, was expecting more of a Bob Meyer-type Blackmoor game. What Bill ran seemed to be almost a mass-skirmish war game with role-playing elements. I talked to Bill a bit during the game and it sounds like that what we played evolved into the Blackmoor dungeon-based game once something crawled into the dungeons of the castle. Then fantasy elements started creeping in like Duane Jenkins' character getting bit by a vampire bat, becoming Sir Fang, and then someone became a cleric to stop them. It seemed like it slowly, but organically, mutated from this skirmish war game into the first D&D.
Thank you! I had forgot to mention in my video, even though I wrote a bullet point note in my notebook, that you were the one who "won" the game! I seem to recall... 97 points?!?! Makes my paltry 19 looks terrible, but there were folks who scored less than me.
Thanks for the recap and also a peak into your strategy. The table was so big, we were so spread out, and it was so loud, that I felt like there were folks at the table with whom I didn't interact much.
Also, thanks for the bit at the end regarding your conversation with Bill Hoyt about the evolution of these games and styles of play. I really appreciate it.
Cheers!
That was a typo. The first RPG game was played in Dave Arneson's family home basement on April 17th, 1971, at 1:00pm. This is both a matter of historical record and a matter of court record. There is not now, nor has there ever been any debate about it. The flyers still exist
I really enjoyed the revelation that there was a "war-gamier" transition between Braunstein and the dungeon delving iteration of Blackmoor that Arneson demonstrated for Gygax and friends.
(They needed to cut down on the number of Daves in the history of D&D. Far too confusing)
It really highlighted that the evolution of Blackmoor was much more gradual step by step than one giant leap.
Looking forward to the next video!
I'm so glad you enjoyed it, and yes, that's part of the thing I was trying to discuss (the evolution/transition from Braunstein -> Blackmoor -> D&D) and it will be a bit clearer in my next video. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
These videos on the precursors of modern day role playing games are really interesting. Not sure if you covered it yet, but I actually got a copy of Outdoor Survival, which is listed in the things you need in the instructions of D&D. It sure is a different type game than we’re used to today.
Thank you so much for commenting! I'm glad you are finding these history videos interesting. I haven't covered Outdoor Survival yet, but that is a good topic for a potential future video.
Thank you!
We had a copy of Outdoor Survival in our lake cabin in Maine that I remember playing with as a kid. Sadly no D&D boxes around to combine it with. Don’t know what happened to it but a few years ago I got a replacement. 🙂
You are missing out on a ton if you haven't played the original setting on the physical board.
Barsoom, joust the video game, 3 hearts and 3 lions all mixed into a vastly wild board complete with Geas, castles and sea monsters in the river.
The 3bb+chainmail with ODS is Amazing.
@@ebrim5013I play it with my 8,12 and 16 year olds up in the Rockies
Such a fun boardgame.
Started playing BECMI in 1987, about 10-15 years later got Outdoor Survival at a thrift store. Never knew that board game was used in that way. Though when I saw it in the thrift store, and saw that it used a hex map, I immediately thought of a D&D map.
What an amazing opportunity you had to play at that convention, Martin. And I think you were just the right guy to have it. Thanks for documenting and sharing!
I really appreciate you saying this! Stay tuned for even more about Blackmoor and its connection to D&D, and thank you for watching and commenting!
The notice in CoTT Vol 3 NO. 4 was for "medevil BRAUNSTEIN" was actually for April 1971. The 0 was a typo. This CoTT was published in the spring of '71. The main direct thread linking the wargame you played with Bill Hoyt is that the Duke in that game is the "Duke of Keston" and Arneson also had "Kieston" as a central location on his 1971 Blackmoor map per the letter he sent to Rob Kuntz in March. This is because Bill Hoyt lived on Keston street at the time.
Thanks for the video! Good stuff and I always learn something new and have other historical game facts clarified when I watch your videos. My Ex and I used to frequent jazz clubs in Milwaukee and Chicago back in the early 80s and, while I am mainly a prog rock guy, I also love jazz from all eras, though I am most familiar with stuff from the 70s, 80s, and 90s. I used to love hanging out on the lawn at Ravinia (check out the wiki page for Ravinia Festival, including the Martin Theater and their "Martinis at the Martin" cabaret series) listening to Pat Metheny and many others. Feel free to check out some albums from those days, if you like.
Thanks so much, Mark! I've listened to some Pat Metheny before but don't have any of his albums on vinyl.
I really like the idea of "Martinis at the Martin"! That sounds amazing!
I do have a "fun" (?) prog rock album by... William Shatner. But it's really by Billy Sherwood from Yes. My friend gave it to me kind of as a joke, but perhaps I could showcase in the bonus content sometime as a goof.
I think it makes so much sense that there are all these games that are varied chimeras of wargaming, Braunstein-style roleplay, Blackmoor-style roleplay, and random experiments and additions. As you note, they weren't so much trying to design a game for others to play as just creating games they were interested in, and they were riffing on each other's ideas and games they play together previously. It was truly an evolution rather than a design process. Thanks for sharing your experiences at the con, particularly all the games you played and the conversations you had, as they are certainly both enlightening and interesting :)
Thank you so much for watching and for this detailed comment. I really appreciate it, and I'm so glad you enjoyed the video. More to come on this as well! Cheers!
You are a gentleman and a scholar.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate that.
Thank you for watching and commenting. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Cheers!
This battle represents Dave Arneson's attempt to use the rules from the Castle and Crusades Society (which would be published in the Domesday Book, and later become Chainmail) to run a medieval battle while he was developing Blackmoor from Braunstein. David later said he was not happy with those rules as they (1) had no man-to-man combat, just unit-to-unit combat like most wargame rules from that time frame; (2) the players were not role-playing individual characters, but commanders of units (again, like nearly all wargame rules from that time frame);
However, he e could add individual different objectives for each player (UN- like most wargame rules from that time frame). And he was using a referee (a la Strategos-N and Braunstein) to allow players "to try anything, but not always successfully" and to provide for hidden movement, uncertain times of arrival and so on. And it was possible (not certain, but possible) to have multiple players "win" because it was not a zero-sum game. So he was feeling his way forward towards the Blackmoor RPG that he eventually created.
To comment on other things you have said here-
Dave Arneson's biggest problem with being a referee/gm/dm in Strategos, Braunstein and Blackmoor games came from older players refusing to "take orders from a kid". When Dave Arneson joined the MMSA he was still in High School, while I was 3 years older than he was and had just turned 21. The drinking age in Minnesota was 21; so I could get together with the older members of MMSA, but David could not... drinking was a very big part of showing you were "grown up" (or maybe "groan up" in the MMSA. It marked a huge watershed, and many of the players David would have so much trouble with were either older than I was, or were the kind of "wild" kids that were going to cheat and drink anyhow - which David was not. In 1968 , when I run the first Braunstein, David is still too young to legally drink, but having the game in my father's basement is neutral ground, so David and those older gamers can all be involved in that game - and one of them can kill him in the famous duel! Interestingly, the two gamers leaning over a green table in the picture that you have in this article, are Mike Norman and Jim Clark: JIm (holding the yardstick) played the Prussian Jaeger Colonel that killed Dave in that duel. I have not seen a picture of Mike for many years, so I am glad you included it.
"Student A" is so named in my restaging of Braunstein 1 because he was Arneson the first time.
By Oct 1970, when I left for the Army and Arneson took over running Braunstein, he was 22, so any legal reason he could not hang out in their games had vanshed, but their relationships had already been set. Arneson's opponents had set up their own breanch of the MMSA, but Dave got along OK without them. As the MMSA grew, more and more of the players were younger than Dave, so his authority as a Referee was no longer seriously challenged.
Holy heck, this has to be one of the best comments sections on a UA-cam video I've ever stumbled though. Thanks for taking the time to fill in that bit man. To someone like me, you're almost a mythical figure so just coming this comment feels like the first time you get a shiny Pokemonn heh.
@TheRyujinLP I had the same thought when I saw Mr. Wesely reply to my video, and I'd already had the pleasure of meeting with him and playing in a game he ran! But the fact that he sought out my video, watched it, and took the time to comment means so much!
@weseld1 Thank you so very much for watching my video and then taking the time to comment on it! It was such an honor to meet you and play in your Braunstein game at DaveCon, and I am very appreciative that you took the time to add some context to the things I was talking about in my video.
All my best to you and I hope to game with you again!
"Young men pushing against the authority of an even younger man" makes _so_ much more sense than _"Ohmagod,_ my dice rolling game sometimes has _different_ results!"
"...and also some people *not* named Dave..."
Ahhh, the secret third D. Dungeons and Dragons and Daves.
There was a really fun comic book series once called "Rat Queens" which is about a group of female fantasy adventurers, very much in a D&D type setting (there's a dwarf fighter, a "smidgen" which is a halfling thief, a half-elf magic-user, and a human cleric). The premise is that they compete with other adventuring groups to take on jobs and get paid. One of the competing group of adventurers is called "The Four Daves" and I always wondered if it was called that in tribute to Dave Wesely, Arneson, and Megarry (and then other Dave I don't know?). The writer has really solid gaming chops, so I wouldn't be surprised.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Dave was teaching at Full Sail university here in Orlando FL. I got to play board and miniature games with him in the early 2000's
That would have been amazing to experience!
Thank you for sharing, for watching, and for your support of the channel. Cheers!
Thanks! I loved this video and the Braunstein one!
I appreciate this so much! Thank you!
The castle and figures seemed to be made by Airfix in England. They used to sell a set of Robin of Sherwood which included a castle, Rohin Hood and the Merry Men plus the Sheriff of Nottingham and his men.
Yes! I didn't know that, but one other person here in the comments has confirmed as much! Great eye!
Thank you so much for your support of the channel!
I am so excited for this year many of us are turning it up on the Origins of Dungeons & Dragons and we are getting so much great content!
Yes, it's very cool! Thanks for commenting, and I just subscribed to your channel! Cheers!
Thanks for this deep dive into your experience with Blackmoor (and all your past deep dives). I especially wanted to just say a huge thanks for pointing me to Empire Jazz. I remember seeing that around occasionally as a kid in the 80s, but did not have a taste for jazz back then. My tastes have changed and this is a hoot! (I'm listening to it now.) Cheers!
Thank you so much for staying through to the bonus content at the end! I really appreciate it and I'm glad you're able to listen to the album. I'm also very happy you are enjoying the history videos. Thanks for your support. Cheers!
Love your content and I look forward to your kickstarter.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate your support!
Oh cool! Will check out the Kickstarter!
Thank you! I really appreciate your support!
@@daddyrolleda1 Sure thing!
You must not go to many miniature conventions. Massive multiplayer free-for-alls have been standard convention games for at least 50 years. But you can see how changing the location to a dungeon and making the game cooperative was the beginning of changing a skirmish campaign into a roleplaying game.
Yes, that's correct on both: I don't really attend a lot of conventions, and I also don't play miniatures games a lot (or at all, not since playing Warhmamer 40k back in the mid-90s!). I'm slowly starting to go to move conventions. I tend not to always do well in large groups of people - same reason my wife to the Cruel World Festival here in Pasadena at the Rose Bowl yesterday and I stayed home!
Thanks for watching and commenting.
Thanks for the videos on this and Braunstein! I was thinking a term for this style of play might be Improvisational Miniature Wargaming.
That's a fun term/explanation!
I'm so glad you enjoyed the videos. I was thrilled to attend the convention and I'm glad more folks are finding out about these foundational times of our hobby and that D&D didn't just spring up overnight!
Cheers!
The green plastic miniatures are from Airfix 1/72 Robin Hood boxed set. The gray ones were from the Sherrif of Notingham set iirc. We used them in medieval miniature games in the 70s (along with metal / lead miniatures). The Airfix figures were smaller than the 25 mm metals, but they made up numbers inexpensively. When we started playing D&D (summer 1974) we kept using them. Fun tines.
Oh, that's awesome! Thanks for those details! It was really amazing to open the box and realize that folks had been playing with these figures for over 50 years! Using a "Robin Hood" series of figures for my bandits was perfect!
Thanks again for watching and commenting.
They are still produced by Hat Miniatures as sets 7014 and 7015, Sherriff and Robin Hood. The Castle is harder to find.
Does anyone know the specific castle model? Was it Airfix as well?
@@seantrue5942 Sherwood Castle Airfix 1705.
Great stuff. My Blackmoor game with Bob Meyer at Gary Con was definitely very different, as it was a castle/dungeon delve. Yet both modes of play are true to what the campaign is: A multi-faceted affair that sort of zooms in and out from large scale wargaming to individual hero character action as desired.
Published D&D formalized this division by making the "domain game" something you effectively unlock at higher character levels. At the same time, though, this perhaps inadvertently de-emphasized the wargame aspect simply due to the fact that many players never had their characters and campaigns last that long, making the individual scale stuff feel like the default or "real" game and dooming the wargaming element to be ever less explored over time.
Thank you so much for sharing (and confirming what I'd heard!) your experience about the Bob Meyer Blackmoor game at GaryCon!
I really like your theory about how lower-level characters, not having achieved domain level "status" ended up becoming the default style of play due to many campaigns not running high-level characters. That seems like an entirely reasonable hypothesis! Thanks for sharing!
And thanks very much for watching and commenting. Cheers!
That very much matches my understanding for the evolution of the hobbies.
@@chiblast100x I believe the Blackmoor campaign was always evolving (still is!) and that what style of game it is depends largely on the personal tastes of the referee. I got the impression from Secrets of Blackmoor that some of Dave's bunch were hard-core wargamers who never cottoned as much to the fantasy elements, and others were totally into it, with a few being impartial. There also seemed to be a revolving cast of players throughout the years, some of whom experienced only one particular style of the campaign, so when they talk about how they remember Blackmoor, I tend to keep that in mind. A little bit of personal preference, and a little bit of what period of the evolution of the game they actually witnessed. That's why you get slightly different stories from Svenson, from Hoyt, from Meyer, etc.
That skirmish Blackmoor game sounds wild! I could see how that could be an absolute blast.
It was so crazy and fun and chaotic all at the same time. I'm so glad you enjoyed watching a bit about it, and I thank you for your support of the channel. Cheers!
Oh this looks like a good one! I’ll be listening on my walk this afternoon.
I hope you enjoy! Thanks so much!
That looks like it would be an awesome album! I have never seen it before.
It is so much fun, especially if you're a jazz fan. It's not too horribly expensive on the secondary market, from what I remember.
Thank you, sir. You’re doing an awesome job. ❤
This is amazing! Thank you so much for your support! I really can't express how much it means to me!
My understanding is that Corner of the Table newsletter is from 1971, so the 1970 date is a typo; doesn't really change what you're saying, though! I think it's super-cool Mr. Hoyt took you into the Castle & Crusade Society medieval miniatures era of Blackmoor. Being at DaveCon, hearing from these folks, sometimes talking directly with them, is actually a childhood dream come true. I started with the Holmes Basic set, and Gygax's foreword about the C&C Society and Blackmoor captivated me -- I was entranced by that feeling of misty pre-history. I dreamed and wondered what those days were like... I never imagined that over 40years later I'd play on Arneson's actual table (with some of my 40+ yr old dice), see the actual castle, and hear amazing tidbits directly from folks who were there. Personally, DaveCon delivered for me well beyond what I expected.
Meet Gary G and Dave A at GenCons back in the day little did I know the golden opportunities I had and failed to explore.
Oh wow! That would have been amazing, but also I do understand that sometimes it might not occur to someone during such a meeting to use it as an opportunity to talk about stuff. I only did at this convention because that was part of my reason for attending and I had confirmed ahead of time that I could chat with/interview these folks. That said, you'll notice I don't have a *ton* of pictures, especially of me with folks, as my focus was just on "being in the moment" and taking it all in.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting. I really appreciate it.
Sounds more like WFB than D&D? Very cool. Thanks for the share!!
Interesting... I'd not thought of it that way. I think there's some connective ideas between all three games both in terms of mechanics as well as settings.
So glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching and commenting!
Hi Martin. Another possible arena for video ideas to take a D&D function and give its historical development and then your take on it. Like why encumbrance was developed, a cleric's ability to turn undead, weapon specialization, thieves skills, etc.
Thanks, Scott! Great ideas and I can add them to my list of potential upcoming topics! I did briefly chat about Thief skills in a few videos:
* ua-cam.com/video/As1ibQLA0Ls/v-deo.htmlsi=v3PQM0q8Xdiy4AEI
* ua-cam.com/video/t3wcfkXr_VQ/v-deo.htmlsi=cITT7ir-GCcotsyB
However, I do take your point and I like your ideas. Thanks!
Thanks again for another informative video.
You are so welcome, and in return, thank YOU for your support of the channel. I really appreciate it. More to come! Cheers!
Yay! Wow what a cool intro photo...
Glad you liked it!
You mentioned the first cleric, the Blackmore thief, why XP and HP and descending AC -- I would really like to hear about how those ideas came to pass -- especially the descending AC!
All those will be coming up in a later video. It might take a week or two while I parse through my notes and figure out how to weave all those elements together in a way that flows. But it should be fun! Thanks for your interest and for your support of the channel!
Ok wow COOLER book!!! Congratulations!!! Looks amazing!
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it!
@daddyrolleda1 absolutely! Looks extremely well made. Also sounds super translatatble regardless of editions
Yes! That is my hope and I designed it in a way that the mechanics can easily be stripped out and/or modified on the fly to be applicable to pretty much any fantasy class-and-level system. Thank you for noticing!
Your channel is so insightful. One of my favorites. It’s really cool to hear an actual play through.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate you saying that, and also for watching and commenting. Cheers!
@@daddyrolleda1 I’m gonna go check out your braising episode now. Is there a place to purchase rules?
@@childrenofthenight8461 Dave Wesely partnered with the folks at Olde House Rules to publish Barons of Braunstein, which you can get at DriveThruRPG: www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/139125/Barons-of-Braunstein
It's not 100% exactly like the Braustein came I played but it'll give you an idea.
Long video, yes, but thorough and interesting!
Thank you very much for watching and commenting! I do have long videos and I've thought about reducing the length but every time I think about doing so, I get an outcry from folks who say they prefer my longform content. Even Professor Dungeon Master from DungeonCraft told me not to change the format. So, I think I've found a niche that, although it probably affects how quickly my channel will grow and there will always be folks who are turned off by an hour plus long video, there are other folks like you who give me a chance! So, thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
very well done. The original Braunstein did have turns. But when he redid the game, he removed them. That was to reflect what the players did. Not what he wanted to do. Which was kind of funny.
The fall of 1970 magic started getting introduced into the game of Blackmoor.
We can talk more.
Thanks very much, Kevin. I appreciate your help and comments, as always.
Please do tell more Kevin!
@@EldradWolfsbane I already have a interview of Bill Hoyt were we go over the events and when. Will post under Anonymous Gamer Corner
I do enjoy Paper Planes quite bit
Equal parts cocktails are fun, Last Word I has been a good way to get people to drink gin, but alas, Chartreuse…
As for the non bonus content, that’s not at all what I pictured Blackmoor as, but sounds pretty rad.
The "Blackmoor" game we played was part of an evolution, and as I've been finding out, there isn't one "true" Blackmoor game that was created and run the same way each time, but rather a series of games, some focused more on wargaming, some more on roleplaying, some on exploration, and all were being played concurrently. That's why, as I've been discovering, it's difficult to say "What's the fist Blackmoor game?" and also, "How did it become D&D?" But I've really been enjoying the process of learning more about the connections and I'm glad you are enjoying the exploration in my videos!
Nice to meet a fellow cocktail fan! My dad immediately went out and bought me a bottle of Green Chartreuse right after he heard it was going to be difficult to get. I've been holding onto it like a precious resource! I've seen other folks working on their own versions and I'm sure sooner or later there will become a new "standard" Chartreuse replacement that folks use.
Thanks for your support of the channel!
Great video, as always, Martin! I find these deep dives into Blackmoor and Braunstein so interesting. The names are always bandied about when someone talks about the origins of DnD, but they’re largely glosses over I find. I’d love to see something similar done with Chainmail. I know it’s not an RPG per se, but I’d love to hear what you could dig up on it. Thanks for the great content. Can’t wait for that next video!
Thank you so much! I can definitely add a video on Chainmail to the list of potential future topics. Great idea! Thanks!
Hello I was just wondering if you have a video talking about firearms or if you could do one within the history of D&D
I do indeed! It's part of my "D&D History" playlist. Here's a link: ua-cam.com/video/7YaswaQqtLg/v-deo.htmlsi=VkCsW4F4FhXbkPtF
I hope you enjoy! Thanks for watching and commenting.
Not a expert at German, but Braun Stein means Brown Stone, so that was kind of on the nose 😂 15:10
I love your videos so much, especially these history focused ones. I started playing in 2015 with 1e so i love these older games a lot more and these speak to me as a player.
I was so interested in the history of game during the pandemic that i found the blackmoor documentary and it became the first setting i ever knew about out side of my homebrew and ive always wanted to play in blackmoor since then especially with how close to my personal style stuff was back then with scifi and other elements mixed in that i love.
I also own a copy of first fantasy campaign that i had printed in hard cover from a pdf and its one of my treasured possessions along eith my replica 2e rome green book.
Thank you so much for watching, and for commenting, and especially for your support of the channel. I really appreciate it!
Also, thank you for sharing your story about how you got into the hobby. I always love reading stories like this, and I'm so glad you found my channel!
I acquired my copy of First Fantasy Campaign during the early days of the Pandemic lockdowns once I figured out how much money I was saving by not eating out, going to the pub, or buying weekly comics (since there was a window where new comics weren't being published). So, I found a copy on Ebay and got it for (relatively) cheap (considering what it's actually worth!).
I don't have the Glory of Rome book in physical format, but I have the PDF, and I do have other Green Historical Books (Charlemagne's Paladins, A Mighty Fortress, and the Crusades), plus I have Vikings in PDF.
How did you come to *start* with 1E in 2015?! That must be an interesting story!
I'm curious if you saw any possibilities for exploration in either game. That was my initial interest beyond combat and intrigue with gaming
Dudes rock
Thanks!
Thank you so much! I truly appreciate your support!
Another great video Martin! One thing that I don't believe you called out in the video (and maybe you weren't at the table when Bill Hoyt announced it) is that the handwriting on those photocopied character sheets Bill gave us (for Bandits, Rescue Force, etc.) is from Dave Arneson himself. 🙂
Thanks, Kevin! I did not hear Bill Hoyt say that, but I kind of thought that might be the case considering he gave us photocopies of handwritten sheets versus typing them up to make them easier to read. I do recall someone shouting out from across the table that "Peasants" was spelled "Pheasants" which was confirmed when I saw that sheet on Jon Peterson's "Playing at the World."
I totally should have mentioned it, but just forgot as I was recording. I'll mention it in a future video. Thanks!
@@daddyrolleda1 "Pheasants" was the Arneson spelling for "Peasants" along with "Bravarian" for "Bavarian"..
What about Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music, something that was before it's time, and always a challenge to listen to.
I can certainly look for one of those early albums when I'm crate digging! I did chat about some of his later work with Velvet Underground (specifically, "Loaded") in a prior video. Thanks for the suggestion!
@@daddyrolleda1 Loaded, released 1970, is a fantastic album. Velvet Underground is Lou Reed's first band Metal Machine Music was released in 1975 and is an interesting album that can challenge what one's paradigm of music is
@@DuivelsApp that's an interesting take on MMM. Reed later admitted it was a contractual obligation stunt. Brian Eno had been doing soundscapes before that, like Music for Airports.
Fascinating stuff!
Thank you so much! I'm so glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for watching and commenting!
The obvious question I have is: So how did Blackmoor evolve into D&D. I can somewhat see how from this video, but I do wonder what the progression was. Cool video.
More in that to come. It's a much more complicated and complex situation than "First X, then Y, then D&D." I'll be adding more videos on the subject as time goes on. I do hope you stick around to learn more, but in the meantime, thank you so much for watching and for your comment. Cheers!
The models…wow
It was truly a highlight of my entire ~43 year career playing tabletop RPGs!
@@daddyrolleda1 I would of been afraid to get my greasy meat hooks on them, those things should be in a museum heh.
Ha! That's an interesting point! There was a hotel restaurant that I ate at a couple of times with the gang, but that particular day just due to scheduling, I hadn't had anything to eat since breakfast (the Blackmoor game started at 4pm and went past 10pm as I recall) so there was no chance to get it dirty with anything! But I do take your point.
When I run D&D for my daughter and her friends, we always have a nice spread of snacks and I make a point to let the players hang out for ~30 minutes before we play, to snack and to catch up, and then we take snack breaks to visit the snack table, which is typically in another room. That helps avoid getting "greasy meat hooks" over my vintage modules I'm running for them!
Woot. I will support the KS for sure.
I truly appreciate that! Thank you so much!
May the fourth be with you
Thank you for watching through to the end! I really appreciate it. Cheers!
@@daddyrolleda1 it was a good episode. I appreciate the hard work
I just realized why people kept telling me tht today was Star Wars Day!
@@weseld1 lol
Speaking of Star Wars, I was wondering if you played much WEG back in the day?
I sadly did not. As a kid, I had begun developing a Star Wars RPG "in my head" while I spent a summer at my grandma's house mowing her lawn with a manual (push) lawn mower. Not too long after that, I heard about WEG's "Star Wars" RPG, and rather than being excited, I was angry that I hadn't committed to finishing my game and getting it published (as though someone would have actually published my ideas at that time).
I've heard great things and have often wanted to go back and revisit it.
awesome, I hadn't heard or seen that SW Jazz record before.
If you want to completely switch it up, looks at one of the records by 80s Welsh rock group The Alarm. I only mention that because singer songwriter MIke Peters is in a bad way, he just found out he has a super aggressive form of lymphoma, after beating cancers 3x in the 90s and 2000s.
I hope you enjoy listening to it when you get a chance! I stumbled across it at a record store in Hollywood called "Record Parlour" years ago and snapped it up immediately for quite a reasonable price, especially considering it still had most of its original shrink wrap!
I hadn't heard that about Mike Peters, but I do have at least one cassette (!) from the Alarm that I recall listening to a lot back in the dorms in college. I don't have any vinyl, but I'll snap one up if I come across it. Thanks for the suggestion!
I loved ad&d 1e!
The original pronunciation would have been _dums_, which is not necessarily indicative of how people would pronounce the game name.
Thank you! I appreciate it!
It's that for which I am here!
Those objectives just make me think "...if there are girls there I want to DO them!!!"
I stay through the end of all your videos, just to improve your metrics. Your tastes in beverages is impeccable, but I don't drink anymore. I enjoy myself through your enjoyment. As to musics, man, you suck. I hate jazz with an unholy passion. Just don't slip into jam bands, and I'll be happy. ^_^
Thank you very much for watching all the way through to the end. I really appreciate it, especially since you no longer imbibe alcohol. I will make a note to try to include more non-alcoholic drinks in the future.
Jazz is very polarizing and I know it's probably not very popular with my demographic. It's something I didn't really learn to appreciate until about ~23 years ago. I do appreciate you watching even though it's not for you! And I do have on my list to add more non-jazz (I've done a few, like Marvin Gaye, Bowie, the Clash, Johnny Cash...).
Thanks again for your support!
How about something from this millennium? I've been listening to Chappell Roan ad nauseam. Also, more old school but might fit the vibe, Kate Bush. Pixies, Throwing Muses, or anyone realeased on 4AD. The Sisters of Mercy exist(ed?). I think we might could intersect at Philip Glass.
There is a.. ahem *cult* on twitter. Call themselves the "brOSR". Really pushing modern players to understand that D&D isnt about funny voices and backstories, it is about a collaborative multiplayer wargame.
They are a bunch of knuckleheads, but their message is real. It is a conpletely different and arguably superior and more engaging game.
Be kind of funny, if instead of calling them RPGs, we called them "Braunstein-like games." Like, Rogue-like games.
Gotta admit, inserting "grape" twice into the instructions is pretty gross vibes. That being said, it does sound like a super interesting experience.
Yes, that's specifically why I avoided even using the term in the video. It might be "historically accurate" but I see no need to trigger someone who may have been traumatized by such an experience in their lives, and I would certainly never include scenes of such in any games I run.
But like you said, being able to play in that game and understand where it fell in the evolution of how we got to D&D was really interesting.
Thank you so much for your support of the channel. Cheers!
@@daddyrolleda1 Yeah, I probably would have made the same choice as you, it would be different if it was my GM/DM for a long-running game that was doing it. I admit I probably would have had a hard time abstaining from a comment about it in the moment even though in my experience those comments tend to be unwelcome.
On a more positive note, I love that you took the initiative to get the gameplay going! I really enjoy being that person and also playing with other players who are proactive like that.
I definitely get where you're coming from. These sheets we were handed were photocopies of the original hand-written instructions written by Dave Arneson (in his writing) and Bill (who ran the game) wanted it to be an exact recreation of the original experience.
I'm glad I took the initiative, also! I was the first to score any points, although ultimately it didn't work out. As a comparison of points, the guy who one (Peasant Force #2, who "looted" the monastery to save the treasures inside from the Invaders and Vikings) had about 97 and I think the 2nd-place player scored around 73. But there were definitely players who scored much lower than me!
Good thing real bandits didn't and don't do bad stuff or snowflakes might all have a melt down.
Very well, I'll bite: which of the Lord of the Rings books, in your opinion, would be improved by a rape scene?
Just because rape exists in real world doesn't mean that a. it needs to be included in a narrative b. it improves the narrative. If you can't deal with non-rapey games existing then I don't know what to tell you.
@@tuomasronnberg5244 What have the snowflakes done? If the Lord of the Rings was made now by the Snowflakes it would FAIL like all the other crap they peddle.
@@sebbonxxsebbon6824 You cannot be serious.
@@tuomasronnberg5244 Hasbro Lays Off 1100 Employees Just in Time for Christmas! Yeah, doing really great. I see you jump right to the extreme, how about this...they don't make a new Bambi game out of d&d!
Look up Dragon Magazine #103, Gary Gygax didn't approve of TSR bowing to people that didn't buy his product anyway so why change things? He would have left Devils and Demons the way they were! The new "Satanic Panic" are "Woke".