The man who invented roleplaying games
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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A clip from the documentary featuring Wesely: • Secrets of Blackmoor -...
Wesely interviewed: • BrigadeCon 2016: An in...
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OK. Thanks for all the nice comments. Just a couple observations: WESELY not WESLEY or WESELEY.
It was not accidental, although I had to do a lot of modification and development between the first session in DEC 1968 and when I left for the Army in 1970: I knew I was inventing a "role playing game" when I started writing it in 1968, (PLAYERS would PLAY the ROLES of indiviual characters, not command armies, but I did not like the name "role playing game" because that was already in use for two OTHER things (a group psychiatric session, and an actors improvisational theater training exercise - think 'Cheese Shop'). I did not want my new game to be mistaken for. either of those (and back in 1974 I was approached by someone who was sure I must be a psych major) I liked the term "Interactive Fiction" - but that was quickly used for an early TTRPG Magazine so the rest of us could not use it. After a lot of floundering around for a non-trademarked way of saying "our new game is a game like D&D" someone discovered that "Role Playing Game" was safe from trademarking, thanks to the psychiatric use already being in the public domain. So "RPG" became the industry standard name that TSR could not sue you for using.
Also, contrary to some "experts", Chess was not the first RPG, just as all fantasy fiction is not "just copied from Beowulf".
Anyhow thanks again for the many nice comments I'll see some of you ar Dave Con next week.
Thanks for the insights, Dave! I've fixed the title.
Always great to recieve your insights! The history is fascinating...
Thank you so much! I've corrected the name spelling in my comment! It was a real pleasure playing in your game and fantastic to meet you in person!
Thanks for your recounting of the situation sir , appericate it.
Hey Dave! I saw this in my feed this morning, I know all the stories from you but going to give this a listen today while I work. Getting close to retirement but not there. I still need to make it to your Wednesday night game sometime to hang out.
GM: My session sucked. What was even going on? Players: That was awesome! Classic.
How true! The more I hated the chaos, the more my players raved about it.
Wow, what a fascinating bit of history! Halfway through, I was wondering, "Gee, I wonder if Mr. Wesley is even aware of the giant industry his game inspired?" and then there he was! Very cool that you got to play with him. If you ever got the chance, I would love to see you interview him.
Totally agree, an interview with him would be wonderful.
I game with Wesley almost weekly and host him at DaveCon every year. Great guy and very modest.
You should watch the secrets of Blackmoor for the rela story.
@@rwustudios Movies are interpretations of information given to them in a very short period of time. I've gamed with Mr Wesely for a a few years now and let me just say, Secrets of Blackmoor while MOSTLY accurate, some details we are only now coming out to see the full truths.
@@vicdakota 10 Years of interviews is not a short time. A short time is what it takes to curate the info here in this video.
The film "Secrects of Blackmoor" touches on many details of these first games. I highly recomend it!
And detailed articles on Davide Wesely and Braunstein on Wikipedia -- although this video was much more interesting than reading Wikipedia.
This is what is forgotten when people argue about who invented the RPG... thanks Ben!
Haha! I made it into a QB video. That session sure was a blast, though. I only wish everyone had silly headgear provided.
So excited !! I've been studying up on the Braunstein game record notes from several years ago and working on incorporating that type of scenario design into my games .
Where can I find these record notes?
Pretty incomplete, but between that and a couple forum post comments, that's what I'd been reading.
What is the first role playing game depends on how you define 'game". The Military was having people assume roles and playing war games for some time before Braunstein. My father was in the Navy in the late 50s and early 60s and they were 'playing' wargames with referees onboard ships back then. The referees would evaluate the actions of the various role 'players' and make decisions as to the outcomes (e.g. Referee: Your ship has taken a hit and the hull is breached, what do you do? Player (Chief Engineer): We plug the hole with mattresses to stem the incoming water and weld a steel plate over them). Also, Diplomacy is a kind of role playing game (you take on the role of a country's diplomat/ambassador) with a referee resolving the actions taken and resolving army and fleet movements, and that game was released in 1959. I played it in the early 1970s (before D & D). Great that you brought recognition to Braunstein though! Diplomacy article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomacy_(game)
Oh, I hadn't seen your comment when I posted mine above!
The most stripped down definition of a game is any activity that has a) participants, b) rules, and c) a win condition, so a military wargame would count as a game. However, a military wargame exercise - as I understand it - does not have the participants assuming roles that they do not hold in real life. An Army logistics officer is simulating coordinating Army logistics in a military wargame, the Navy Chief Engineer is taking on the role of a Chief Engineer, etc.
In a roleplaying game, as this video is describing it, the participants are taking on roles that they do not hold in real life, such as a French revolutionary, and acting out those role through a combination of make-believe and improvisation. The improv part is especially important in differentiating it from a military wargame as wargame participants have to follow the roles as they've been trained to do. You can't just make something up on the spot as it's a training exercise whereas in an RPG, you have the freedom to do so so long as the ref/game master is rules it appropriate within the bounds of the setting and rules-as-written.
Diplomacy is certainly closer to an RPG than many other board games of the time but, in Diplomacy, all the players have one role, that of a diplomat. TTRPGs divide different roles amongst players (not to mention, the game master [who is also a player]) - and Diplomacy relies on a board map to track events. While traditionally, RPGs have been played with maps for miniature movement, it's not a requirement, as Braunstein shows.
@@wesleystreet I disagree.
@captainnolan5062 I completely agree. This all relates to how roleplaying games equates to D&D and how it is a progenitor to Braunstein’s efforts. Evolution is rarely clear cut, but the tropes are evident in this evolution from tactile wargame to imaginary story game.
@@commandercaptain4664 RPGs came out of Wargaming. Arneson and Gygax were both wargamers before they became famous for RPGs. TSR stands for Tactical Studies Rules.
Check out Eureka on Kickstarter: kck.st/43XIHp1
Playing at the World: amzn.to/3vRsF3m
How to run a Braunstein RPG: kidminotaur.com/how-to-run-a-braunstein-rpg-1756ec4e73f0
Source of some images: playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2013/01/strategos-in-twin-cities.html
Documentary on early RPGs: www.secretsofblackmoor.com/
A clip from the documentary featuring Wesely: ua-cam.com/video/QXzpDHWBF6s/v-deo.html
Wesely interviewed: ua-cam.com/video/n1SZJjZ-U9I/v-deo.html
So crazy you posted this,was just thinking about Wesley today and how he doesn't get enough credit for our hobby!!
I didn't know this story or about browstein games but they look amazing. Would love to see some published materials. Thanks for sharing this.
Great video! I love the original Braunstein story, but I love even more that Wesely came back to run it! That French spy was sly.
Great video and thanks for the links in the description.
Super interesting to learn about. I'd love to give it a try. Really cool precursor to TTRPGs and Social Deduction games.
There is a pedogogy in higher education called “Reacting to the Past” in which students do this very kind of Interaction in situations related to historic events - it feels like they both have a common starting point!
Who knew that the real D&D were David & Dave (Wesely & Arneson)?
I wondering if Ben Milton has been reading the essays by Luke Crane and Sam Roberts. Seems right up his alley.
A friend of mine told me about Braunstein some months ago. I found it interesting, if a bit "Historical Fiction" for my tastes.
All of this lore culminating in the epic, 1995 campaign of Kramer versus Newman.
Thanks for the video!
And before Braunstein was Diplomacy.
True, Diplomacy was a big influence on the twin cities gamers. I wouldn't classify it as a real RPG because it doesn't have that "tactical infinity". You're still limited to a discrete set of moves on a board.
@@QuestingBeast And the players run entire countries, not play the roles of individuals, and all of them have identical goals, not unique goals for each player and Diplomacy is a zero sum game (the only way you can increase your score is by decreasing the score of someother player).
exactly why I despise the term TTRPG, implying that video games are also RPGs when they have such a tiny range of options and clearly no roleplaying.
@@QuestingBeast Also, everyone has the same "role," that of a diplomat. Plus the reliance on a Risk-style map puts it into the "RPG adjacent board game" category for me.
@@NemoOhd20 I agree. Video game RPGs are a simulation that utilize the randomization mechanics of RPGs to resolve conflicts but there is little to no player choice.
This is the sort of thing I like to see in a gaming video. I learned a lot here. Thanks.
Wicked video I learned a lot from this !
0:54 Where can I get a copy of Strategos N?
does braunstein have a collected pdf edition anywhere that can be given to players?
Check the links in the description
Theatre is the first RPG of all time.
Great video as always. Thank you.
She girl bossed him into paying himself 😂
Pretty sure the guy who invented role playing games was the first pope.
Huzzah,, Huzzah,, HUZZAH!
this is cool as shiiiiiit
An absolutely perfect video. I'm playing Braunstein at DaveCon next week! When I was invited to play, I was floored. It will be the zenith of my TTRPG career. So I skipped the debriefing, lest I learn the secrets. Let it be known Professor Dungeonmaster does not cheat!
Incredibly cool, PDM
A better video would have been an explanation about why copies of Knave 2.0 were sold at GaryCon before Kickstarter backers received their copy(ies).
Enjoy it and please pass our thanks for his vital role in creating the RPG.
@@BusyBadger for real?
@@grumpyinbrooklyn6347 Yep. Premium editions too, not the softcovers. If you poke around Google, YT or Reddit you'll should find out some more details.
As I've said a couple of places, I think those 60 copies that Ben & Jacob airmailed to the US in order to sell at GaryCon are going to cost them dearly in the long run.
I think it's hilarious that even in the first instance of a role playing game, the players descended into chaos and the GM didn't know what to do.
A tale old as the hobby itself.
We learn from our mistakes - if we don't just quit trying! Thanks, Dave Arneson for telling me to try again.
@@weseld1 I was wondering about this situation when watching Secrets of Blackmoor, especially, if I recall correctly, that you thought it was a flop (but players loved it). Was it disappointing because of loss of control, or waste of prepared material, or was there something else? Thank you for bringing this hobby to life for all of us here, Mr Wesely. It's inspiring to hear how it originated and what it was all about.
...the DM thought it was a disaster, and the players loved it. Classic!
No plan survives first contact with the enemy!
Gygax and Arneson are rightfully credited as the creators of the first modern RPG in Dungeons & Dragons, which was a merging of the Blackmoor and Chainmail rules. However, David Wesley doesn't get the credit he deserves for his part in the history of roleplaying games. I recognized Wesley and Braunstein because of Jon Peterson's book "Playing at the World", which covers the history of gaming, including war gaming and roleplaying games. Wesley's re-introduction of the referee, allowing players to control individual characters instead of armies, and the infinite potential of playing outside the rules, is what led Gygax and Arneson to their collaboration and creation of D&D. Today, the referee exists as the game master or dungeon master, and that is all thanks to David Wesley. Thank you for the informative and entertaining video! And it's so cool that you got to meet and play with Mr. Wesley.
Just so you know, it is Dave Wesely. Makes it easier if you're googling or trying to see other interviews of him. A misspelling gives you a musician or something.
Depending on how you define a TTRPG you could say Braunstein was 1st, then Blackmoor was 2nd, and D&D was 3rd.
D&D without a doubt was the first "commercially available" or "published" TTRPG.
David Weseley gets the credit! btw: There is a detailed Wikipedia article on Braunstein and a detailed article on David Wesely on Wikipedia as well. If anyone is interested in more "facts" than were in this video. Enjoyed this video though -- Questing Beast made the topic more consumable than reading Wikipedia articles.
@@quantus5875 Although "", a wild west RPG inspired by Braunstein was also introduced in 1970 or 71 by Duane Jenkins, after I had left for the Army. So it seems to be a tie for 2nd place with Blackmoor, which was started up at about the same time. Duane made a critical step in RPG history, with players running the same character in game after game, and each game incorporating the results of the previous ones, rather than just starting a Braunstein (say Braunstein 4) over on the same game day, with new people running the characters from the cast of that Braunstein (1, 4, 5, 6 and so on). That mechanism, was inspired by Mike Carr's where each player would have a card file with one card for each of the pilots he had created to use for each WW1 nation, who gained increasing skills by surviving missions, until shot down (or WW1 ended). Arneson then used that system for character creation and tracking increasing experience in Blackmoor. So two more names should be added to the "Fathers or Grandfathers of RPGs": Mike and Duane.
@@weseld1 Thanks for posting. Loved your post. Yes -- very cool! I like to think of it then as David W., Mike, Dave A., and Duane as the fathers/grandfathers of TTRPGs and Arneson and Gygax as the fathers of D&D. I once went through the OD&D booklets looking for innovations in TTRPGs and it is mind numbing how D&D (as the first commercially available TTRPG) has so many innovations -- but then you really do have to look at them as "published" innovation -- yes -- but many of these innovations came before D&D. It is nice people that came before Arneson and Gygax getting some of the credit -- those were definitely amazing days!! I sometimes always wish I had started back then -- 1974 or earlier -- but I didn't start playing OD&D until 1977. Grateful to all you've done - for such a magnificent hobby!! Thank you!!
Super glad to see Wesely getting more recognition. Ever since I learned about the first Braunstein (which I think I read about for the first time in a now-obscure book called The Fantasy Role-playing Gamer's Bible) I thought "This is where it started." As in, I'm not sure there's a better answer to the question "who invented the RPG?"
He is a genius and playing in Braunstein I and Braunstein II changed my entire view of RPGs.
What did it change for you?
It sounds like he invented them intentionally, he just didn't know they would expand into a whole new genre.
In a sense, ot went from wargame to LARP to TTRPG.
@@revylokesh1783 I thought the same thing when I played it; I could not believe he functionally invented live-action RPGs before tabletop RPGs really existed, hahaha
VERY intentional
Braunstein games are truly the "epic mode" of RPGing. Every GM should at some time or another grab their dice and just say, "Today we are playing a crazy scenario without written rules." It will make you better at everything, and really stretch the imaginations of your players.
They work better when based on an underlying framework and existing campaign world.
My son and I played Braunstein with David Wesely at the first DaveCon. It was great to get to be a part of the historic experience!
So, it all started with a mega game, huh? Makes sense to me
Blackmoor and Greyhawk were mega games also, like 20-50 players.
For anyone looking to mix it up, the game "En Garde!" can be played in a similar way. Back in my RPGA days the local club ran an En Garde! game alongside our regular game days - prior to splitting up into individual tables and playing D&D we would spend 30-60 mins to do some roleplay and submit our turns to the referee, then we would receive an email with the results a few days later, in a kind of LARP/PBM hybrid.
Braunstein sounds like the mix of rpg, murder mystery and werewolf than I've been wondering for a while that should already exist somewhere. Didn't expect it to be so old.
What would be sick is a scenario gerenator system like Fiasco, to be able to generate basic stories without much hassle for a weekly event.
Do I inherently like Ben's voice or does it just give me warm fuzzy feelings of association with discovering the OSR 🤔 Well don't know don't care! BTW did we ever find out what that cosmological looking poster is?
It's the Map of All Creation from Time Bandits.
I learned about Braunstein from the ‘Blackmoor’ film.
Since then I have found the debate of Arneson vs Gygax to be a moot point.
Mr. Wesely deserves far more credit than he has been given.
I met Dave Weseley at Garycon this year. He was so kind! I loved talking about games with him.
I also met Bob Meyer who ran a short blackmoor game for me and a group of other folk! He had some great stories as well.
I bought Secrets of Blackmoor on prime video and it was really awesome. I think it takes you through a lot of that early game IIRC.
How is that? I've heard good things but I would like to hear your opinion if you don't mind.
This week I have learned that not only the Oregon trail game but DnD started in my home state? What the hell?
Twister and nerf too
That was very enjoyable but perhaps the best part is the possibility of a Braunstein kickstarter or published book. I could genuinely see it transforming the RPG hobby for the better.
Can't stress it enough how important it is to play games for your brain
The players did something unanticipated and he made a ruling. D$D invented itself.
Tactical Infinity . . . good band name.
Until they start playing polka, then it’s all shot.
What a wild and fun game. Gotta love the old school gamers.
David Wesley will be running 2 sessions of Braunstein at Davecon this month.
I remember seeing this book as well as Blackmoor sitting on a rack in the corner of the game store back in the 80s. Not sure why I didn't get a copy.
An honour to have played that game with you at GaryCon. It was a great bit of history, both the history within the game, and the history of Mr. Weseley’s game. Big highlight of the con for me as well. And again, you did an amazing job roleplaying during the game! Severely annoyed the heck out of my ambitions! 😂
Haha, the commander is an annoying character! Even his own men don't like him.
Oh, that's David Wesley. I've played with that guy before at HMGS conventions.
Just some nerd doing what he loved, changing the world without knowing it.
Referees did not vanish completely. There were wargames that used Refs in the 20th century other than Braunstein. Otherwise great video. The early hobby deserves more visibility like this.
This is a very interesting game. Almost more like a murder mystery dinner party type of thing. I think that would be a good way to run it.
That was a really interesting video. I hadn't heard of David Weseley, Strategos N or Brownstein(?), and I'm glad you have corrected this, Ben.
👍👍👍👍😎😎😎😎
fyi: Detailed -- entries for David Weseley and Braunstein on Wikipedia.
The way Dave Wesely runs Braunstein seems to share a lot with Chinese Jubensha. Check out the People Make Games video The Murder Game Revolution.
Very interesting! Now we know where player agency came from!
Thank you for posting actual footage from the game. I have read multiple retellings of game experiences from those who have played but never seen actual footage. I am quite envious of you having gotten a chance to play in one of Dave's games!
Great video.
I like that type of game better than the nitty gritty combat rules, Dungeons etc. It becomes clearer now the styles of each one (Weseley, Arneson, and Gygax).
Thanks, Ben.
It sounds like some of the Living Grayhawk conventions I went to where they had an event called an interactive that was like a larp.
Great video! I was in that very same Braunstein with you at GaryCon. (I was Tavern Owner 2, one of the French spies, and you can see me in the black & white Paladin in Hell t-shirt.)
You all meet in Banana Republic at the local mall. Go ahead and describe your character and what you're doing.
Crushing on the most popular kid in school who works there.
You got some of the dates wrong. Easily remedied by watching Secrets of Blackmoor. - Griff
Nah. If you did that he'd be obligated by courtesy to give you a shout out. Ben's MO is making people think he did all this research on his own.
In a few months he's going to have a video talking about Chainmail and Swords & Spells and the development of the concept of combat Rounds within a Turn.
@@WargameCulture He does cite references in credits.
@@WargameCulture In defense of Questing Beast he does cite in his credits 1) Playing at the World by Jon Peterson, and 2) the "Secrets of Blackmoor" documentary as sources.
Yes -- in the end everyone who talks about the history of TTRPGs should cite "Playing at the World" -- it's a beast of a book -- but pretty amazing on how much detail it contains. The only other work that is as seminal as Playing at the World is Shannon Applecline's Designer & Dragons series -- which is also pretty awesome.
The debrief sounds very much like the Freeforms (well before the 'LARP' moniker was invented) that we were playing at CanCon (the Canberra Games Convention, in Australia, in the very early 80s) - so much fun - SO many people.
I'm so glad you enjoyed it. 😊
Let’s not forget the influence that Diplomacy or “Dipo” had on the style of play as well
Great telling I had no idea this was the OG Counter strike"s TTT, Halo's cops and robbers and GTA's RPG all fan honor rules game modes played like GMless RPGs... Which even my Impossible everygame(Now in beta after 5 years of dev) has a mode like those games... Where you can each play RPG characters in a TT wargame match where their are commanders at each level from, luetents to kings who are playing another civilization/risk like game with multiple GMs at verous levels... Think more like a co-op and competive tornment... I have never play tested this but it can be done if their were enough people who wanted to play.
So cool that you got to play Braunstein with its creator. I really hope the rules are published.
This sound AMAZING. And I had known the story, but it’s so great you actually got to PLAY it!!!😊
Braunstein (as well as Brownstone and Blackmoor by extension) was such a huge discovery for me and forever shaped my desire as a GM in how I aim to engage the hobby/artform. I've never gotten to play in it though I hope to one day, but fully plan on doing my own hopefully soon within a personal setting, likely online with my many lovely friends. The more folks talk about it and spread the information/story the better. Folks interested in it might also be drawn towards what many call the Megagame genre too, very similar concept!
3:24 Good to see that me feeling like my game was a complete disaster, but my players loved it has been around since the beginning :P
I absolutely love anything to do with the early days of RPGs, so am really happy that you shone the spotlight on Braunstein and David Wesely. I would have loved to be part of that game. You are so lucky 🍀.
Well done on this video and all your amazing content!! 🎉
1965 was when he came across Strategos
It goes like this:
1963 - MMSA forms
1964 - Arneson joins recruited by Weaely
1965 - Strategoes is adapted into Strategoes N & Stragetoes C
1968 - Strategoes
Thank you so much for this video! I knew about Braunstein because over 20 years ago I got my master's degree by writing a thesis on "The use of fantasy role-playing games in social work". But I didn't have THAT much insight into the story of Braunstein. I mentioned David Wesely and that he felt the experiment had failed - unlike his players and I also mentioned Dave Arneson's Blackmoor later, but for me too the first role-playing game was D&D. For this reason, thank you again for teaching me better. You have gained a new subscriber!
@weseld1 And of course a BIG THANK YOU to you Sir! I really hope to see Braunstein in print! I would love to play it with my Game-Group of "Old men still playing kids-games" 😜 Greetings from Germany!
What an amazing video to come across. I played a game of Braunstein, with Wesley running it. This was around 2008 or 2009. I just finished a political game called NSDM: National Security Decision Making. Wesley came by and invited us to play.
I received the role of the local nobility's son. My friend was the tavern owner. Sadly, I didn't get to join the revolution. The staff kicked us out, before the room reservation ended.
Haha,sneaky revolutionary harpy....bribed him with his own money...priceless
When it comes to swords and sorcery and roleplaying, I had thought Robert E. Howard was the pioneer. As for wargaming with mini's, the oldest may be the prophet Ezekiel (Eze 4:3) when he was commanded to act out a siege of Jerusalem in miniature with pots and pans.
Seems very similar to the National Security Decision Making Game, which itself is based on a system developed by the US Naval War College for geopolitical simulation during exercises.
This is my first time ever hearing about this.
I arrived into gaming in around 1978 - by the time DnD came out in that purplish looking booklet just prior to the red cover version.
Just a kid then, no clue the twisty path RPGs had taken to get to 1978.
Good video! The Quick Reference Sheets (QRS) look as if they were patterned after the ones in early Avalon Hill board/wargames.
There is no "great inventor " of role playing games. Children invented role playing games. For example Cowboys and Indians, Armymen and anything else their imagination could come up with.
I try wait before leaving a comment and I’m glad, because very early I thought this sounds just like 90s Larp. Glad to hear we agreed.
You should cover the Bronte sisters story game, those three as children before their writing careers played in a colonial north Africa and would publish in world newspapers and have their characters interact ECT. In my opinion that's the first ttrpg, (tho it lacked rules and a GM and wasn't published)
Weird I never got to make friends to actually play and really get into tabletop games with. But I play an online game world on browse. You can create any kind of game within the world you want and add automations and things. There’s a game called werewolf someone hosted. Basically we all get assigned to random map addresses and random character like there’s a few werewolves, witches with powers, fool or jester, doctors and stuff. It was fun I cursed somebody along with the werewolves eating her. And the player identities are hidden. If table rpg games are like that but with more functionality (since we barely had player abilities to avoid death unless you were a witch etc) then I would like to open myself up. And try to meet a few genuine earthlings to rp with.
It's crazy that we actually know who was the first to die in an RPG... and presumably it was the first PVP?
So glad this popped up in my feed! Thanks, Ben! The Secrets of Blackmoor was really enlightening.
I'd heard the story of Braunstein a few years ago but, for the life of me, I couldn't remember the details. Thank you for sharing this, QB!
Kind of reminds me of the video of jubensha from people make games except is not a murder/mystery, no costumes and stuff but it could be. I think jubensha is pretty similar with the "dossier" on your character, btw dossier looks a nice name for a game like this.
At gencon I try to do an event with the National Security Decision Making Game, which is like this, very Freeform, but with players representing power blocks in national and international politics.
You get a title, basic description of what you can do, and a goal or two. Then the players are let loose, usually with the referees starting the game with some sort of crisis.
Great stuff, though you need lots of players.
Thank you for creating this content and helping inform the hobby and bringing to light it's history.
War gaming probably goes back to the dawn of man, scratching maps out on the ground
This reminds me of the Halo symbol editor 😭 I think my brothers saw it online on someone else's gamertag and figured out how to do it... Taught me how to do it... There was 2 different ones... 🤦🏽
Thanks for showing me this mile deep rabbit hole, Questing Beast.
Where do you get a rule book for the war game? I mean the old at 0:20
I didn't find anything - just entries about computer games
Chess comes from tabletop role playing games from ancient India!
If I am ever going to play Braunstein - it will be while drinking a beer from my local brewery of the same name :)