After being out of D&D since 2nd edition, it was Old School Essentials that brought me back. It was something I was familiar with, a bit more streamlined, easy enough to teach to others, and didn't involve having to deal with digital assets. Was able to convert my board gaming group into now doing an OSE campaign in addition to our regular gaming sessions. The OSR world just seems like an easier gateway for players than diving into 5e. Also for our group, OSR seems to focus on collective creativity for handling situations rather than just an escalating set of PC powers to bash through combat.
I agree with all of this 100%! I like your description at the end about "collective creativity" vs an escalating set of PC powers. That's such a good way to put it. I do think that it really is easier to grasp and get into an old-school style game, but the marketing and public awareness of the D&D brand name is so huge that it's difficult to overcome with new players, I think. That's partly why, when I asked the parents of the kids for my daughter's group if their kids wanted to play, I said we were playing "D&D" even though I'm really running Old School Essentials. I just use "D&D" like someone would use the word "Kleenex" or "Band-Aid." Thanks for watching and commenting!
I feel that for those of us that grew up post-crpg era, 5e is more intuitive because you can see the influence that videogames brought. It's a moderately crunchy system but it builds on a feel and expectation that goes along with modern videogames and features most universally applied mechanics- leading to its popularity these days as an entry to the hobby.
@@daddyrolleda1 well you've added to my knowledge base. My best friend and his brother were fans of the knighs of the dinner table comic strip and found it from there. We played it from early 2000s until 06 and we picked it up again in 2021. There is still a community around HM it has a 5th addition which is also based off another system and modified to suit their needs, like 4th ed that is shown in this video. To give you an example of some of the humor. Blood mage is in the index but not the book and somewhere it says it's in the DMG and the DMG says it's not in there becuase it's too hood for players. Also they're fireballs on basically ever spell level for magic users. Skipping Betty fireball, sidewinder fireball. Items like chainmail bikini of major eye gouging or the axe of rapid whacks
OSE is the gold standard for layout, presentation, etc... in the OSR world. It's as clean and nice as it gets. I ended up buying the two-volume Old-School Essentials Advanced Fantasy books, since we have been playing an amalgam game of B/X with AD&D 1e pretty much for 40+ years now. OSE Advanced Fantasy is about as close as it gets to what we play. heh We still play the game we always played, but I had to get the OSE books, even if just to read and cherish. :-) Perfect presentation. Love it.
I agree! It's easy to read (the font choice particularly; some fonts, to me, aren't as easy to read at a distance when I have the book open at the table) and the information is *usually* organized in a way where I can find what I'm looking for quickly. There were a few times where Gavin put a rule about something in a place that didn't seem intuitive to me, but I've gotten used to it. And agreed, I thought the Advanced Fantasy stuff was such a great idea. I know Labyrinth Lord did it first with Advanced Edition Characters, but once again, I think the presentation in OSE really nailed it.
@@daddyrolleda1 There is a subtle difference between LL and OSE in terms of the AD&D classes. Because of the design philosophy of OSE, the classes in OSE from AD&D are more B/X-like and the AD&D classes in Labyrinth Lord (not as strict in following B/X) are more AD&D-like. I hope that makes sense. So, if you like the B/X rule set then IMO OSE is probably the better choice -- and if you're more of a fan of AD&D 1e then OSRIC or Labyrinth Lord IMO are probably better choices. These three are all incredible games!, but being more of a AD&D 1e player my preference between these three rule sets is Labyrinth Lord. Labyrinth Lord in essence has become more a hybrid between B/X and AD&D 1e.
I like bounded accuracy a great deal. This is one of the best things about 5e in my opinion. OSR did this at our table by increasingly oppressive experience needed to level, but kids today feel like they should reach level 20 in a year.
There is so much good stuff in there! I really do like the wildness of the random tables for things like spellcasting. It does slow the game down, but I think it does so for a purpose that makes sense within the context of the game system. Thank you for watching and commenting!
I only started playing DCC this year, and it's a blast! I am fascinated by the contradiction of having such streamlined rules (race as class for example) paired with pages and pages of crazy random results.
DCC is the most FUN I've ever had at the table I'm in love with it. DCC for fun And I run Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea for depth 🍻 They both scratch that Swords & Sorcery itch.
I'm a 5e player who's grown weary of the character build arms race that has been a feature of D&D since 2000, of which I was a willing participant. I'm really into Dungeon Crawl Classics and have picked up Castles & Crusaders and Shadowdark. I would consider playing old school type games.
That very much describes me as well. I was really into 3E/3.5/Pathfinder1E and bought a ton of supplements, usually character guides and also campaign settings that included new character options and feats, etc. I was never quite into "builds" as I really am just not good at seeing the connections between things, but I liked new races/classes/feats just for the variety. But around ~12 years ago, I began to really dislike how much time it took me to plan a session and build encounters that were challenging to my players. I was spending more and more time doing searches for specific monster or NPC builds on the Internet and less time thinking about how to react to the choices the players were making. Thanks for watching and commenting!
been a big fan of Dungeon Crawl Classics since I was first introduced to it. Recently i've gotten into Old School Essentials, and it has done an amazing job of demystifying the more arcane early editions of DnD for me.
That's great to hear! I'm always happy to hear of folks who take a chance on games like this. I'm a huge fan of Old School Essentials, as you could probably tell from the video. And DCC is great, too! Thanks for watching and commenting!
Old School Renaissance was the original name, though Revival was discussed. I was there. Not saying other interpretations are wrong, though. And no, grognard (grumbler, from the French, pronounced approximately "GROAN-yer" in the original language) is not bad, we call ourselves that all the time. And oh, lordy, the Dragonsfoot days. That's where I learned to do layout, how to mimic the style of the classic games, all of that. It's where Basic Fantasy RPG was born. Basic Fantasy RPG was shared with the public in incomplete form months before OSRIC was announced; the author of OSRIC wanted a complete, finished-looking game, while I wanted collaborators. But OSRIC reached print first. How exactly you decide "first" determines which of us "wins." But it's not a contest, not with each other. Stuart Marshall and Matt Finch both contributed to Basic Fantasy RPG at different times... we're comrades, if not friends. And, I'll point out that "Product Identity" is a legal fiction that only exists in the context of the OGL. No OGL, no such thing as Product Identity. A lovely thing when we changed to Creative Commons licensing was that we escaped at least somewhat from the tyranny of Product Identity.
I am so glad you found my video and came into the comments to share your experiences! That is so awesome! I really appreciate you taking the time to watch and then comment on my video. That's amazing. Cheers!
Awesome video covering a vast topic! I played some B/X in the 80s but didn’t get back into gaming until 4E. I bought the red box starter set with the retro art. Unfortunately the game inside didn’t match what I remembered. Not sure how but I found the OSR/retroclone community and haven’t looked back since. I got to be part of the google+ community and even ran a PBP game on there. Thanks for including games like Mork Borg which are certainly “old-school” in spirit.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I'm so glad you enjoyed the video! I do remember that 4E Basic set with the Elmore cover art from the BECMI set. I thought it was a smart marketing tactic to draw in older or lapsed players, but you're right in that I bet there was some disconnect with folks buying that set expecting a different style of play. Awesome you got to be part of the Google+ OSR community for a bit! I still miss it! Cheers!
Over the last year ans a half I have DM'd several BECMI, rules cyclopedia for high school players. They really appreciate the speed of play and straight forward ruleset. Three of the seven regulars have purchased their cyclopedia and have begun running games.
The Rules Cyclopedia is, for many, their "Desert Island" version of D&D since it's everything you need in a single book, and covers up to higher level play as well. I was a B/X kid so I never got into BECMI and the RC as I felt it was just too similar to what I already had, plus we were playing AD&D by that point, but in hindsight I wish I'd at least picked up the RC book when it came out. Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@daddyrolleda1 Never have. I like world building for fantasy and science fiction though, so there's a lot of overlap. I've also bought and sold D&D books that I've found at thrift stores before because I know collectors that want them.
It saved the hobby for me. That's enough of a reason to recommend it to everyone I meet. Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea And Dungeon Crawl Classics Are my life.
I've heard such good things about Shadowdark and it looked great, but I was trying to watch my finances a bit and be cognizant of what i would actually use in my campaign, but I definitely regret not getting in on the ground floor. I'm sure I will pick it up soon(ish). Thanks for commenting and for your support of the channel!
Always the best content. Start to finish, clean and digestible. Bonus content is a personal favorite as I like to drink nice things and listen to intersting music.
This comment 100% made my day! Thank you so much. Honestly, it really helps make my day better when someone posts a comment like this. I really appreciate you, and especially that you stayed through the bonus content. Thanks!
Thank you for this video. I need to explore OSR more! There’s so much creativity there! I love the combination of simplicity and richness that many of these new systems have.
This makes me so happy! If just one person who sees this video thinks to themselves, "I should check that out!" then I feel like it was worth it. Thank you so much for watching and commenting. I really appreciate it!
Thank you so very much! I of course 100% agree with your assessment, and I'm really so happy to see that many others agree. I've tried to review OSR products on the channel before but they don't get as much interest, but this "overview" video seems to have intrigued some folks, for which I am happy because I hope that means there are lots of folks out there interested in picking or using some of these kinds of things. Thanks, as always for your support. I am always so touched by your generosity. Cheers!
No need for the “R” in OSR here. I started with BECMI in 1987 and never stopped. I saw subsequent editions but realized they didn’t bring anything substantial to the table that I couldn’t just create myself. It has always shocked me that they ever let people sell their homebrew knock offs in the first place. I understand how this was achieved legally, it just always surprised me that they seemed to go along with it. I suppose you could call it Arneson’s revenge. I imagine Dave grinning with wide eyed joy when the D&D community eventually took a big fat bite out of their bottom line using the same scam that they pulled on him. Love you Dave, you are missed. 37 years and going strong, running 2 campaign groups in a persistent Mystara world currently going for 3.5 years. I have no complaints. Play what you love, love what you play. BECMI Forever! Long Live King Elmore!! ps-as always, thanks for the excellent work
I appreciate a good discussion about this without all the fighting about who's right. Personally ivevjust gone to saying OS (Old School) brcause if I want to play "old" I'll just go pull my original books from the 70s off the shelf and play. Otherwise I'll play whatever I want and have fun.
"Playing whatever I want and have fun" should really be the mantra of everybody playing a TTRPG, as opposed to not playing but constantly complaining that others are playing incorrectly! 😀 Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
I'm technically still running a Pathfinder 1E game that began as a 3E game way back in May 2001. We've been on hiatus for a few years due to COVID, people moving, etc. I'm glad this made you interested in Old School Essentials! If you have questions, let me know!
I love that you use a combination of multiple books. I'm currently running a pirate themed game using ShadowDark as the base with added content from Pirate Borg, Letters in the Dark Zine "Skallywags", and Ghosts of Saltmarsh.
…and about locking down language and ideas that they probably don’t own under copyright or trademark laws. Using the OGL, you agree to give up a fair bit that you could almost certainly do without any license at all.
It's language, but also style and mindset. It's really not about a rule set, although I think in the early days of the OSR, the publicity made it seem that way.
I loved the skills in 2e. They were cool and for the most part just flavor and ancillary. They offered a +1 or +2 over an unskilled character. There were some specializations like Horseback riding which gave you a +4 to do cool shit. They colored your character but didn't replace any core game actions.
One of my absolute favorites was DISPLAY WEAPON PROWESS: Characters who have this proficiency can put on an impressive display of weapon prowess without fighting at all - swords whooshing in a blur, daggers flashing, arrows splitting melons in two. An individual must use a weapon with which he or she is already proficient, but weapon specialization has no further effect. The "show" takes at least a round. Those who are impressed are forced to make a morale check.
I remember "Display Weapon Prowess"! I feel like that was in the Complete Bard's Handbook? That's where I seem to recall having first seen it. I like how you are combining different rules for your "Shadowdark+" game. That's exactly how I play, too!
As weird queer alternative kid growing up in the 80's influeneced by l post-punk and Goth, OSR resonates with the D&D we actually played and continued to play - absolutely about creativity rather the rules or rolls.
I love hearing this, especially because I don't think folks realize that the OSR isn't all just, as I mentioned in my video, old guys playing early editions who hate change. There's a huge variety in the OSR community and it's bigger and more diverse than I think folks realize. I honestly sometimes don't like to announce that I play OSR games because I think a lot of folks have a negative view of it and would lump me in with a group of people based on their perceptions. But I think, slowly, those perceptions are changing. Cheers, and thank you so much for watching and commenting!
@@daddyrolleda1 well I am almost 50 - so hardly that young. But gaming has always had a space for folks who didn't fit in with 'respectable' society! I played Basic and AD&D, Rune Quest, Advanced Fighting Fantasy at the time. Then headed into various other gaming avenues before discovering OSE, DCC and Mork Borg. Later D&D lost me by becoming too high powered, not being just about pen and paper (I have never been bothered by miniatures one way or the other) and massively commercial. I have kids now who want to play and we will explore Dolmenwood together over the coming years. And if they want to be something wild and weird we will roleplay it and storytell it rather than needing a multi class half species specialist rule set. Your videos have absolutely been part of the journey of rediscovery - thank you.
That is so great to hear! I love hearing that smaller publishers like this are getting a chance and being adopted by gaming groups. Thank you for sharing!
Thanks for noting the way 5e actually has old school elements baked into it... even if it takes a li'l digging to coax them out. I read the 5e PHB and DMG again over a year ago after engrossing myself in the OSR and I was mildly pleased. As you say, OSR is a style not a ruleset and 5e can totally be played in it. All that being said, OSE is still my go-to system. Simply reading those books sparks joy in me.
I love OSE! Absolutely. I was mainly hoping that folks who are solely ingrained in 5E might look at the game differently. But from the data available from UA-cam, I'm not sure if any of those folks find my channel! Thanks for watching and commenting!
WoTC -- actually went back and looked at all the older versions of D&D. So yeah, not a heavy OSR influence but rather an influence of all the older editions of D&D on D&D 5e. Yeah, after the mess that was 4th Ed (although there were a few good ideas in 4th). They went back and looked at everything from the older editions they thought was good.
Daddy Rolled a 21! SO GLAD you made a video on this topic as I have been going back into old school games and OSR products ( particularly interested in getting the Cess& Citadel book thanks to you). I stopped playing D&D at 2e and re-entered the hobby at 5e. After playing 5e for the last year and a half, I find my enjoyment has been flagging and largely it's because of some of the design choices. I feel that the OSR movement is where more interesting design choices and offerings are being made while the 5e group is diluting and becoming overburdened with the menu of options that it becomes extremely irrelevant ( basically every class is a spell-casting class now which diminishes the mystique and risk of becoming a spell-caster; I call it the Harry Potterfication of D&D and I get why they WotC group went that way to maximize new player wish-fulfillment but it makes for a style of game that seems less fantastical IMO because it's so common).
Very much an "out there" game, The Electrum Archive! Weird Gonzo-Science-Fantasy in a Nausicaa like post apocalyptic world where you smoke the blood of gods to cast randomly generated spells! I even met my Girlfriend playing it, so put that on the box!
That's awesome! I've heard of it but haven't checked it out yet, but am intrigued now by your description. Thanks for the tip! And thanks for watching and commenting!
Castles and Crusades has been through a number of printings, but the mechanics have not changed. The various printings cleaned up things like typos and unclear language, but the rules are the same as they were in 2004. C&C did use the OGL, but they recently moved to scrub OGL language from their products and ran a Kickstarter for books without it.
Oh, that's right! I forgot about the recent version. I got my copy from my friend years ago. I didn't look at the print date but I think it was shortly after it debuted.
@@daddyrolleda1 You have the 4th Print (2009) of the Castles & Crusades Players Handbook. You can tell from the cover. That cover is usually called the "cat beast" cover. C&C was first released in 2024, first in a small white box edition (in the late Summer of 2024), and then the 1st print of the hardback PHB was released in Dec, 2004, second print in 2006, and third print in 2007.
Hello Martin! I am now within the spectrum of the guys that would probably play OSR, with grey hair and stuff. I love your channel and I want to point out something regarding the difference between the two covers that you mention at the beginning (Advanced D&D and 2nd Edition AD&D. While the first is indeed more indicative of the adventuring style of "dungeon crawl", with the party killing monsters in order to loot treasure etc. The one of AD&D 2nd Edition, kinda gives a more heroic aspect to the cause of adventuring. I like it more that it gives the feeling of being a hero and not just a dungeon delver/looter. Treasure and wealth can be accumulated by heroic deeds that the art of the second cover speaks more of. I agree though that it should have included more heroes in the drawing as it is a cooperative game at heart. This is an improvement to the game style I think. Now days my opinion is that from hero we have past to the era of Super Hero, which misses the mark. As you can tell I am also a believer to the educational aspect of rpg's. They sure have educated me over the years. Thanks for the great content!
I'm really glad you enjoyed the video! There are a lot of different approaches to playing the game, and I don't disparage anyone who prefers the more "superhero" style, but I myself prefer a more grounded adventurer who *might* become a hero, if that's what they want to do. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I've been viewing your content for a few months now and have been unexpectedly enthralled by the passion and in depth insight that you deliver. This video however shatters all benchmarks achieved by anything I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot! I had no idea that all these 'alternative', or perhaps I should better say 'supplemental', materials existed!! Not too much of a surprise really given the distractions that life can throw in ones path and perforce caused me to give up my active participation in Fantasy RPG gaming. An enduring fascination that I discovered oh so many years ago. In my youth I was fortunate enough to stumble upon the beginnings of D&D when I first attended a 'Wargames Group day' and was fated to experience their first ever diversion, away from their traditional fare of Napoleonic and WW2 gameplay, when one of the members introduced us to 'Basic D&D' as an addendum to the normal activities; after we completed our re-enactment of the D-Day landings. He had come across it at his local hobby store and was inspired to try it out at his Games Club. I was one of two new attendees that day. We, along with one other (relatively new) member instantly became addicted to the genre as our neophyte Dungeon Master guru plunged headlong, successfully, into a new venture. He had a real talent as a DM (thank you Jack, RIP). From that first introduction we swiftly diverted away from our new DMs traditional fare of Napoleonic.. etc.. gaming and D&D established itself as the major interest of our little group. We would play at the hall, rented to host the gaming Societies bi monthly activities, then repair to his home and continue for another 6-8 hours more of D&D. This swiftly evolved into us playing every Sunday because we none of us could bear to wait for the next instalment of our adventure into, imagination land. Sad to say but, after a few highly enjoyable years, life began to impose new priorities and, at an appropriate moment, I had to leave the group. After a while I managed to renew my passion for the game as a DM, rather than as a player, but that too had to end, in time. I've never lost my love of the game. Just couldn't find/spare the time to indulge it. When I thought to post a comment here, after watching your video, I had no intention of giving such a personal retrospective regarding my involvement with D&D. Strange how that worked out! As I said at the start of this meander, somehow, understandably (from my perspective), I've missed out on all these works that you reference in your video! That said, how UA-cam has never thrown up any other content creator referencing these materials in the (what must be) 1000s of FRPG related videos that I have watched since YT became a thing baffles, frustrates and even annoys me to no end, now that I know they exist! I can only conclude that you are the only one who has done so, and (thank my own personal Pantheon), in such a comprehensively compelling, in depth fashion. Kudos to you sir! You have managed to inspire me to go seek out some (at least) of these resources so that I might perhaps rekindle my own personal creativity anew - now that I have time on my hands to once again indulge my old passion. Thank you. Keep up the great work. You are a sparkling gem amongst the mediocrity! Salut!
I really can't thank you enough for this comment. Reading this just really made me happy and helped remind me that people do pay attention and are entertained and/or informed by the stuff I'm doing. On a personal level for me right now, things haven't been great, but reading this comment really lifted my spirits. I truly thank you for taking the time to watch and then write such a thoughtful comment. I do hope you are able to check out some of the games I chatted about, and I'd love to hear about your experiences when you. All my best! Cheers!
Ha! That is funny! How did you end up discovering Basic Fantasy? I'm always interested in how these smaller publishers reach folks who don't already known about them.
@@daddyrolleda1 I was very upset at WotC because of the OGL situation last year. I looked up alternative games (I think it was a Professor DM video, actually) that led me to BFRPG. I wanted to run BECMI as I have some of the books, but some of my players just couldn't figure out THAC0, but I'm glad I did BFPRG as the community over on the forums is great.
As a teen in the 90s, it was the time that 2e reigned supreme but I learned on Basic (I inherited my older brother's collection who had Holmes, Moldvay, and Mentzer Basic). I really wanted to play D&D, not AD&D. Fortunately I found a DM who loved to run Basic too. I played a ton of other games, but Basic (and Expert) were my favorites to write for. It was such a joy when the OSR came together, and got to exploring so many aspects of the game that intrigued me, especially open world, lighter roles. It was such a joy to see new stuff come out for the books that I have, then advance all those ideas that I like.
I would also like to call out the Hill Cantons/Chris Kutalik back in the early 2010s for advancing the digest-sized books layout, developing the pointcrawl, and introducing a more out there, psychedelic and Slavic-influenced setting and introducing me to the art of Luka Rejec, another excellent OSR/NuSR designer in his own right.
Very well put! I agree 100%! As a kid, we thought AD&D was "superior" but didn't realized we were actually still playing Basic/Expert just with extra "stuff." And I, too, find B/X so much easier to write and create for, and the vast majority of the really creative stuff I see coming out in the OSR is either for B/X or one of its clones, or it's for a System Neutral game that's easily adapted to B/X. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I really want to spend some more time digging into Hill Cantons. I've followed the blog and social media stuff but never bought the books as I kind of missed (or wasn't paying attention to) the era when they were really coming into their own. I hope to rectify that at some point.
it's fascinating to learn about all of this, as someone who only knew of DnD and TTRPGs more broadly through pop culture until playing a variant on 3.5 just using mats the DM had memorized despite 4th already being out at the time(as a side effect, this one's first exposure to 4th was people disliking it). That said, despite having some pathfinder 1e digital stuff, this one's only just starting to actually get INTO TTRPGs with dnd 5th
I'm so glad you found and enjoyed this video as you are continuing your D&D journey! Whichever edition you enjoy is the "right" one! Thank you very much for watching and commenting. I appreciate it!
@@daddyrolleda1 np, thanks for putting out such an informative video. this one's only real complaint is that the audio feels kinda...empty? not an audio engineer but it's probably the result of using a larger room or something. maybe some light background music or even just audio balancing could help. That aside, the video was well made and informative, and seeing such old books in such good condition was fantastic. And totally understand wanting to keep pizza-fingers off the classics. Good luck making more in the future too.
Thanks for the video! A lot of good information in this. I tend to stick with the Gary-created 1970s stuff, just out of habit more than anything else. Sure, I've played and run tons of other stuff but I usually head back to 1E AD&D core books to run and play some (O)D&D at Gary Con when I can. I hear people were seeing Kevin's Famous Chili all over the place!
Love the bit about Kevin's Famous Chili at the end there! It was such a surprise to just randomly come across a video with him. His voice is so different in real life, and with a different haircut, it took me forever to recognize him. Glad you enjoyed the video. Your 1E games, from what I've seen on FB, look like so much fun!
This is such an amazing display of generosity. I am overwhelmed by your kindness and support. Thank you so very much. I truly appreciate it, and I really hope you enjoyed the video. Cheers!
I don't know if this is correct at all, but I always thought of there being different "waves" of the OSR, and depending on what era of the OSR you're thinking of, the R can represent something that defines that era. Like originally you had the era of all the really great retroclones like Basic Fantasy, Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC and Swords & Wizardry. This is the Revival wave. Then after that, you had a second wave of creators inspired by these retroclones who put their own creative spin on these games, whether it be taking these games to new settings or expanding the rules to add missing elements. Like Conan-esque sword & sorcery of Hyperborea or the simulationist kingdom building of the Adventure Conquerer King System. I think of this as the Renaissance era. Anyways, fantastic video, as always! Cheers!
Okay! I will begin to include that kind of thing in my "DM Advice" playlist series (which is where I primarily talk about the game I run for my daughter and her friends). Thanks for the idea, and thanks for watching and commenting!
To me, "the OSR" means the non-corporate, community-driven effort to support and promote TSR-era (A)D&D. Any other definition (such as those that admit only vaguely D&D-inspired indie games) just smacks of mission creep and is too inchoate to be useful. Not to say there's anything wrong with those indie games necessarily, only that they could use their own umbrella term so as not to sow confusion with regard to the movement's original mandate.
Which you have every right to have that opinion. To me, I consider OSR to be an umbrella term, and then there are various subdivisions within it, but it remains a fairly nebulous umbrella at best.
To ne OSR means OGL -- basically the ability for people to create forks of any game that uses the OGL -- I guess the term NuSR or Nu-SR is being coined (for gamed based off of newer games or use new rules) but the OGL is basically what started this entire movement it started with emulating older games -- now it's like forking anything that has an OGL license that someone decides to fork.
Just wanted to correct a minor misstatement you made in the video about Lamentations of the Flame Princess (2012)!! Fantastic game!! You mentioned that (although in fairness you weren't sure) that it was the first game with a "slot" mechanic for equipment. It was definitely, not. According to my records you can go all the way back to 1984, to a game called "Toon" (1984), which I believe was the first game that had a slot mechanic for equipment. (Might have even happened earlier than that, but Toon (1984) is the earliest game that I know of that had "slots".) And then of course after that if you look at computer RPGs -- slot systems were used heavily in the 90s and beyond (they just make so much sense in CRPGs) -- I'm thinking Diablo I (1997) - but I'm sure slots were used much earlier than that in computer RPGs. Not a heavy CRPG gamer myself -- so can't think of any earlier than Diablo I -- from the top of my head right now. If someone knows? I bet it was done in the 80s, just don't know of a specific example.
It's a very small subset, but they're out there. They're of the "if it's not written by Gygax, it's not old school" crowd. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I wish Veins of the Earth wasn't out of print. Two OSR products that you didn't already cover, that I think is a must have, is Dungeon Grappling by Douglas H. Cole and Social Encounters Along the Silk Road by RPG Pundit. The former is rewrite of grappling rules, and the latter is expansion on reaction rolls.
Shadowdark, Dungeonesque, and Five Torches Deep are fantastic games for pulling people away from 5e with familiar mechanics. Hyperborea and DCC are definitely my favorites these days.
I was aware of the Shadowdark Kickstarter but I held back because I was trying to save money at the time and also I knew that I'd probably not run it but instead just mine from it for the OSE game I run for my daughter and her friends. I do regret not having gotten it, though. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Yes C&C is basically AD&D 1e with D&D 3e mechanics (minus the feat and skill systems) and Shadowdark is old school D&D (borrows heavily from DCC, and a few newer indie games) with D&D 5e mechanics. Both great games!!
14:44 similar age and similar gaming trajectory to you: started with basic D&D, then AD&D and AD&D2 (and some other games, mostly in other genres), then moved away from D&D in college. But the big difference was that I didn’t stop gaming, I just moved to playing other systems. So I was still gaming regularly when D&D3E came out (I believe I was running 2 weekly games and playing in a third at the time). My take on D&D3E was that it didn’t fix any of the things that I thought were broken in AD&D/AD&D2 (and which I had therefore houseruled), and didn’t change any of the things that had driven me away from D&D. D&D3E made it definitive that what I’d loved about D&D wasn’t what the designers of D&D (and maybe the wider community of D&D players) thought was great about D&D, because the design efforts were focused on “fixing” things I’d never had a problem with or found lacking, while the parts of the rules that _did_ get in the way of play (IME) were being entrenched or even made worse (from my perspective). And while a lot of the OSR games undid the changes to D&D3[.5]E that I don’t like, they still didn’t do anything to fix or improve the parts of D&D (B/X, BECMI, AD&D1/2) that I felt needed improving. Instead, where I found the “fixes” were in already-existing trad games (EarthDawn), indie games (Shadow of Yesterday, The Burning Wheel, Dungeon World), and D20 System games putting their own spin on D&D (Arcana Unearthed, Iron Heroes, Blue Rose). At this point, when I want to play D&D I’ll grab either Dungeon World or Arcana Unearthed - they, IMHO, do the most faithful job of capturing the long-running AD&D1/2 campaigns I ran and played back middleshool through college.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I really appreciate your thoughtful and detailed response. I had completely forgotten about Arcana Unearthed, even though it's sitting here on a shelf not even 4' away from my desk. I was so excited when it came out and I did really enjoy the setting. I wasn't thrilled about the layout (for whatever reason, those old Sword & Sorcery Studios fonts were so difficult to read for me). I'd love to hear more about your house-rules and what "fixed" you've found in the games you listed. Thanks again!
Please show the first picture in the 3rd edition players handbook. It has a group of adventures that just fought a dragon. It's right there in the front of the book. Larry Elmore art even.
1:12:12 Genuine question _why would anyone quibble at that?_ You can't say you're all about making rulings and having a quick and effective game if you have to look up a modifier, or do math to add them together. Why NOT have another tool in your toolbelt?
I like the concept of OSR a lot, but I have not been able to convince my players to try one of them. I specially love OSE and its layout. Main reason beacause we won't move is because we like having many character options and for mechanics to reflect the narrative. I am reaching the point that I am doing my own mod of Five Torches Deep x Knave x D&D 5e for our group.
It can be a really difficult thing to get around when as a player you're used to having all these options to "build" a character. But that's one of the reasons I've been gravitating back to old school play that doesn't have as much of that. I'm of the "too many options is actually limiting" camp. I know that might not make sense, but the way I view it is that if you have a ton of options to pick from, but you only get to pick a few, that implies that your character *can't* then do the other things they didn't pick. In an old-school game where you're not picking options, that means my character can try anything. I don't need an ability to swing from a chandelier or break off a table leg and use it as an improvised club or to try to disarm my opponent. But in newer versions of the game, you usually need a feat to try those things, and that also means you're going to then try to do those things every chance you get, even if it's not tactically sound, because you want to amortize the cost of taking the feat. That's a very simplistic way of explaining it, and there's nothing wrong with playing those types of editions if everybody is having fun! Thanks for watching and commenting! Your modified 5TD x Knave X 5E sounds like it could be a lot of fun!
@@daddyrolleda1 I completely share your idea on how too many options usually means less, specially for more mundane aspects such as using improvised weapons. However, the part I would like to rescue from games like 5e (and mostly 3.5 to be fair) is for example a cleric of Kelemvor being able to use a longsword (which is not a blunt weapon, but part of the lore is that the cleregy of Kelemvor do use swords). It's a small example and in a game a DM could just rule out that this cleric CAN use longswords, however such instances stack and get harder to adjudicate the wider the possible concepts are. For example, how would a warlock from an infernal pact differentiate from a warlock from a fey pact in an osr style game? aside from aesthetics and some spell choices. We, personally, like how the gameplay can reflect certain lore aspects.
I think you might enjoy my video I just posted today! It talks about how in the late 1E period and going into 2E, there was a shift in Cleric weapons to matching them with their deity's preferred weapon, resulting in some clerics being proficient in edged weapons! But yes, I do take your point. I think stuff like that makes sense. I like your warlock example... if you're interested, there's a B/X Warlock book by Timothy Brannan: theotherside.timsbrannan.com/2020/05/which-warlock-is-which-ose-edition.html Tim is kind of "known" as being the "Witch and Warlock" fan across multiple types of games/editions. Thanks!
Hackmaster! Hell yeah! IDC what the grognards say, It's the true founder of the OSR. They kicked Hasbro's ass, legally, went on to win the GoTY Origins award. Then the OGL popped. They even trolled WoTC by calling it 4th edition, since theu were releasing 3rd ed D&D. They trolled them again when WoTC released 4th ed, and Hackmaster 5e was released.
I flipped through the book so many times at my local game store and planned to purchase it, but I never pulled the trigger. I was thinking that I still had all my AD&D stuff and as such, I probably wouldn't end up using it. But it did look fun! Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@daddyrolleda1 It looks like you're a collector. Do yourself a favor a pick up the Hackmaster 5e books. There is a PHB, DMG, and two MM. I love the way they look and feel. I've only ever ran one campaign with it as a paid GM for some college guys, but it was an enjoyable experience. I prefer D100 roll-under skill-based systems, but I took a few ideas from Hackmaster, mostly to do with the initiative system and weapon reach/speed mechanics.
The main difference is that Hackmaster was the result of a very specific set of legal permissions that weren't available to the general public. The OGL was fundamentally different in that it allowed any fan to publish their D&D material without fear of reprisal.
HackMaster and Castles & Crusades for sure lit the way for the first stirrings of the OSR. (And I'll be eternally grateful for TSR's corporate incompetence in allowing Dave Kenzer to walk away with an AD&D license.)
@@willmistretta That's what I alluded to in my OP. The legal stuff and GoTY happened before the OGL and the generally accepted beginning of OSR. I just believe Hackmaster is the real origin, versus something like C&C or OSRIC,.
I know it doesnt fit the theme, but I would actually be interested in seeing a review of a pathfinder adventure, id I'd like to hear how critical You are of some parts and what parts you like.
I can certainly add that to the list of potential future projects, but I've never actually played a Pathfinder adventure! I've made my own for Pathfinder 1E and ran bits and pieces of some of Paizo's old Adventure Paths that appeared in Dragon magazine for 3.5, but never an official Pathfinder adventure.
Is there anything specific about 5th Edition that makes it better than the previous ones? I had thought, by-and-large, that most editions of Hackmaster were pretty similar to each other. Is that not the case? Also, thank you very much for watching and commenting!
(Shows a 1980s book)"I started with what most people would not consider an old school game" ... "Some people would argue this isn't old school." Yeah, I'm sure. And some people are idiots. BX is DEFINITIVELY old school, and 75% of the systems labeled "OSR" are based off of it. If some RPG hipster "redefining" OSR is stating that Moldvay Holmes Basic isn't old school, they are just being contrarian and making shit the f*ck up.
I 100% agree with you, and honestly was taken aback when I learned there were some folks who don't consider any of the "Basic" line (Homes / Moldvay / BECMI / RC) to be "old school." But, I've also tried to accept, as I've gotten older, that fandoms can be so very insular and people like to create their communities where they can discuss the things they want to discuss. I may not agree, but if they're happy and not hurting anyone, I guess it's fine... even if I think it's odd.🙂
@@daddyrolleda1 "Bro, you ain't playing Old School if its not the draft version of First Fantasy Campaign or Tonisburg set in Blackmoor using a cobbled together ruleset of Braunstein + Chainmail, and conjuring the spirit of Arneson with a Ouija board to DM it" (but seriously, no you're 100% correct, the Basic line is absolutely old school)
I started with 2e, and am still playing 2e, so I haven't really ever felt the need to look into osr. I wouldn't say I have an aversion to new games either - I just have an aversion to WotC (and to paradox interactive now). I end up picking up a lot of stuff (that doesn't have a d20, 5e, WotC or OGL logo on it)
I've picked up a few actual OSR games but not with the intent of playing them, but rather to mine them for ideas for the B/X game I'm running. I usually go more for supplements like the ones I show in this video, though. To me, there's a lot of really creative ideas coming out of the OSR that I enjoy putting into my game. I played a ton of 3E/3.5 and bought a lot of stuff for it, but now that I'm back to playing B/X, I've not really been buying anything from WotC, not because I don't like them, but because it's not useful or relevant to me. I really do like their Art & Arcana book, however, about the history of D&D artists. That's a great resource and includes pictures of a lot of cool things like seeing Gary Gygax's handwritten notes on art from the original artists for D&D telling them what to draw and/or change/revise for the first three little brown books. That kind of stuff is fascinating to me.
having only played ADND 1e [1981-1992] yes i know...ugh im expanding my horizons slowly...and being away from the hobby since 1992 until 2020, i fell back on the old school gaming in order to wrap my head around playing again. Having said that I decided to write my own game rules to stream line what I thought was a complex way to play [for me] and try to bring some simplicity and controlled chaos, as well as game time speed, into my game play. Then i had a look at 5e...oh my, colourful, very much geared towards the video gaming culture, [in my view], and way too easy to play without fear of a character dying. [again in my view]... and so...ya created my own flavour of the OSR, good or bad, it works for my brain, simple but effective. I did look at OSE, really liked the logical layout of the OG game. have looked at BF again a very nicely redone version of the OG. Also looked into Shadowdark, Knave, ICRPG, DCC, and some others... all of these have inspired my own game and following content creators such as yourself, are keeping me inspired to stay in the hobby, so .. thank you.
Check the Castles and Crusades players handbook...pdf is free on their website...it's basically a streamlined version of 2nd edition with some of 3rd editions mechanics but none of the feats or skills. Very modular and you can easily add things you like from other games etc.
Thanks, interesting and thorough video. I cut my teeth on the Moldvay basic set in 1981. I want to like OSR content, including supporting indie creators, but I just can't get excited about it. 5e is flexible enough that you can play OSR style play (IMO). I just supported the ShadowDark kickstarted, I flipped through the core rulebook and it just looks like a kids game (which is fine). I showed it to my players, adults in their 30s and 40s (one in his early 50s) and got it a solid "meh." OSR seems to weaken player agency. Also, the OSR seems to lean into the combat/wargaming roots more than 5e and I reject the criticism that skill based systems harm player imagination - skills don't water down player agency they enhance it. I'm DMing the Wild Beyond the Witchlight now and I love it, players have alternatives to 'killing monsters' and by including story reward progression they have less of an incentive to fight everything they see. However, Martin, your enthusiasm for OSR content is infectious, and I'm thinking of taking a second look at OSR, Knave etc. I will say that the history of TSR/D&D is a fascinating subject to me and I can't seem to get enough of it - thank you for making such detailed content, I'm enjoying your analysis immensely.
I appreciate this comment so very much! Thank you for taking the time to watch and then to write such an insightful comment. I also appreciate that while we might not agree on all the details, you are cordial and conversational with your "arguments" (which feels like too strong a word, but hopefully you get where I'm coming from). In short, I love comments like this. So nice to meet a fellow Moldvay "initiate"! And we started the same year, as well (although I was at the very tail end of 1981 when I began playing). 5E *is* a very flexible system that support a lot of different styles of play, especially if the players and the DM can agree on any potential restrictions (classes, feats, species options, etc.). So many of the complaints I hear about 5E are related to all the options, which I've never understood, because they are called "options" for a reason. If you don't like them, don't use them! I'm not 100% sure I agree with you about the combat/wargaming roots of the OSR. I'm sure it's there in some of them, but I don't think all of them. One of the products I mention, which is a review, and also the first video I ever made for the channel, is "Big Terror in the Streets" which is a murder mystery investigation adventure in 1600s Paris. There is very little combat-oriented aspects to it at all. That's just a single example, of course, but my point is that any game system can have material created that focuses on a specific thing (combat, puzzle solving, exploration, etc. - all based on the preferences of the person who created the material). And lastly, I'm really glad you enjoy my history videos. I enjoy them, too, but they do take a substantial amount of time to craft and research, so every once in a while, doing something like this is a nice palate cleanser for me! Cheers, and thanks again for watching and commenting.
To be fair, the 2e PHB is a call back to the original Men & Magic art for OD&D, so it's hard to say it "changes the tone" of the game while it's actually returning to the source.
That's an interesting comment. I never thought of it that way -- but now that I think of it that Easley cover is -- a fancy version of the old Men & Magic cover.
I like AD&D 1e due to the very flexible game system that you can apply common sense to any situation. AD&D 2e was okay for a bit but it and every version after became a bloated mess.
Longhaired, bearded, and unapologetically militant "grognard" here. You've done a fine job covering the main points of the whole "OSR thing." I see the whole thing as more of a mindset as well as a rules style and art style. I started with Moldvay B/X around 82 or so at the age of 11 or 12. Its my opinion that 2E AD&D was the beginning of the end and WOTC was the final nail in the coffin. People who enjoy the newer versions are more than welcome to do so. It's too far away from what I know and love for me. Also, it pushes a visual and rules style as well as a social agenda that I do not agree with. In short, it has become mainstream trash. This is fine....I will stick with my own thing. Again, great job! Keep up the awesome work.
Thank you so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it. I, too, started with Moldvay Basic in the late Fall/early winter 1981. When 2E came out, I'd moved and lost my group, and the new group I found was playing Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, so I didn't actually *play* 2E, but I did incorporate stuff from it, mostly class kits, into the 1E campaign I was designing. Due to working at the ad agency that handled Hasbro, I ended up working on WotC's advertising for a while and they sent me the 3 core books for 3E (that's the Player's Handbook I show in the video) and my co-workers asked me to start a campaign, which is how 3E sucked me back into D&D. But I definitely prefer the OSR style games now, and I think you're correct in that it's also a mindset. I just find the products much more creative and designed specifically to be read and used easily at the table. Thanks again!
@stevefugatt7075 When critics unfairly paint the OSR and the people who enjoy OSR games in a bad light, you are exactly the kind of person they are thinking about. It's a shame that people like you taint what is otherwise a WELCOMING, vibrant, creative, and all around awesome corner of the TTRPG community. That's too bad, but happily, despite such outliers, the OSR community is still filled with good, decent people who are great ambassadors of the hobby. As long as newcomers known folks like you don't represent what the OSR is, it will continue to grow.
Warming up a paper shredder before each session. By feeding a blank character sheet into it. When a character dies, then press the power button on. It helps to curb seperation anxiety among the players.
Basic Fantasy FTW! I do wish there were more games that accepted more than 4 races or "good" races, thank goodness basic fantasy has that in spades and does away with alignment unless you REALLY want them. Among other things there's too much politics in 5e
If I had one complaint about the OSR stuff, it would be that too many of them are trying to be gimmicky. DCC (especially this one, I cannot get past the ridiculous 0th level character funnel to give this more than a glance), Knave, Shadowdark (the torch mechanic literally feels like a videogame), Mork Borg, etc, are okay but they lean more into "caricatured idea of what D&D was back in the 80s" when we have proof of how it was in the 80s. OSE is okay but there's too many B/X clones (Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy, etc.). At this point I'd say just go with AD&D 1e and be done with it; it really is the most complete set of rules, because as it was more or less designed to be the "universal" set of rules for conventions.
Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea is what sold me on the OSR. And DCC is AMAZING and fun but only for shorter goof off games. Not campaign material for sure 🤣
Firstly, thank you SO MUCH for watching the bonus content! I really appreciate it. I love making these videos, but I do record them "in order" so to speak, so the bonus content is my chance to kind of wind-down and switch gears from "research" or "presentation" mode and just relax for a bit. Secondly, this is such a great point. The "short" (for me) version is: 1) Ian Fleming liked his Martinis shaken, even though the original recipe called for it to be stirred (since it's all booze). It was just his personal preference. 2) When you shake gin in an all-spirits cocktail, you "bruise" the gin. A lot of folks use that term without understanding its meaning. But a huge benefit of gin is its aroma. If you over-chill it by shaking, you end up masking the aroma, which diminishes the pleasure of the drink. (But the addendum of course is that if you have citrus, cream, or egg, white, you *have* to shake, or those ingredients won't incorporate). 3) Fleming created a cocktail in the book "Casino Royale", called the Vesper, that uses a split-base of Vodka and Gin. Interestingly, as Vodka's main benefit is that it's colorless, odorless, and flavorless, over-shaking and over-chilling does not cause any harmful effects, as you can't mask the odor of something designed to be odorless. 4) Cocktail nomenclature is weird. If you make a Martini (with gin, of course, it's part of the recipe; one created with Vodka is properly called a Kangaroo), but you shake it instead of stir it, it's properly called a Bradford. The only difference is that it's shaken instead of stirred. Anyway... I hope you enjoyed. This wasn't meant as a dismissive "Actually..." moment but more an opportunity to talk about something else I'm passionate about - home bartending. Cheers, and thanks again for watching and commenting!
I remember when there were other games. To me playing dungeons and dragons feels like sitting in a bomb shelter after a nuclear holocaust. So much has been lost and for no good reason.
I can see that point of view. For me, I feel like there are so many people now who are interested in learning about the history of the game, how and why it was created, and the folks who created it. But that could be just because I'm biased by the folks who follow my channel. But getting new releases, such as "Foundations of Blackmoor" gives me hope that there is a group of folks who want to ensure the early days of the hobby aren't lost.
@@daddyrolleda1I am a bit of a codger now, but I am less interested in the history than I am in the ideas. I do not mind newer versions of D&D borrowing ideas from other games, but it creaks and shudders when it tries to change too much. I think more people are starting to get more experimental.
Last I checked, OSRIC and Basic Fantasy, wasn't written by Gary Gygax either, so if persons whom want to "define" what the OSR is or isn't for others. I believe most RPG players can define what they feel the OSR is to them, and it has nothing to do what strangers think about their definition. 0 D&D, AD&D, & BECMI I would consider to be OSR products cause the ARE the originals, have other companies tried to clean up the rules and such in modern times, like Swords & Wizardry & OS Essentials, sure, makes it more modern and easier for the younger generation. But saying original versions of D&D & AD&D are not OSR is flat subjective, and history actually says others. I don't play OS Essentials, OSRIC or Basic Fantasy, but I will play AD&D and BECMI if I want go old school gaming. If I want somewhere in the middle, I will go Castles & Crusades, DCC, or even D&D 3.5E. People and tables can define what the OSR is to them, an industry doesn't define that so the "increase sales" comes across as snobby marketing to me.
Gary Gygax must have done some occult research, okay the satanic panic stuff was weird because none of the spells contain actual incantations it is all suggestions however no one finds it strange you never really hear about Gygax,s or Elmore research or reference points it wouldn't suprise me if they were both Mason's. Please read Dark dungeons by Jack.T.chick I am truly obsessed I am not even a big 5e fan. I am trying to find someone to play my becmi basic dungeons and dragons set the art is. Nostalgic and inspires my imagination way more, oh Iike these posts!
No mention of Lion &Dragon? What a shame, really incomplete to talk about the OSR and not mention the RPG pundit. Anyhow good overall review, I would say the OSR is not a small part of the hobby it's a major player now I would say, particularly with wotc and pazio dying off.
Its hard because parts of the OSR I don't mind and the people part varies from cool people to grifters to political people to social outcastes. I don't care for the politics or the social outcastes part.
I'm here for the content. If they get political or agenda driven I tend to ignore it unless it is influencing their work 😅 So far my favorite creator seems to entirely stay out of it and I genuinely appreciate that.
@@martinbowman1993 That's why I appreciate a content creator who makes their online presence about the thing they created and not their salty opinions. Hyperborea has been a blessing. Everything on both the game accounts and creator accounts are all about Hyperborea or heartwarming personal stuff like marriage and pets. No agendas being pushed No thinly veiled hate at political figures or groups of people. Just passion for the fantasy they created 🍻
One of the guys who consulted on D&D 5E has done a number of interesting OSR games based on his historical research. "Lion and Dragon" is based on the Wars of the Roses in Medieval England. The latest "Baptism of Fire" is set in 10th century Poland. Well worth a read.
I appreciate the effort that the OSR community have put in, but I don't really get the appeal of early DnD as people usually describe it. I care more about character and story than anything else, so the reminiscing about how DnD should be exclusively about rooting through Wizard Crypts in the pursuit of riches just sounded dull as dishwater to me. Maybe I was talking to the wrong people, though...
To be fair you can run the old stuff the same way you run 5e and other modern games if your character and story driven. You just need to be self aware of the low numbers. Honestly it can make for good narrative play if you have a good DM because there aren't any rules holding down the gameplay. At the same time I highly recommend games like Exalted and Numenera (The Cypher System) for folks in love with the storytelling piece of the TTRPG pie. If you ARE interested in attempting to approach the OSR I highly recommend reading Principia Apocrypha; Principles of Old School RPGs. It's short, free, and easy to locate.
I often find that the lower the amount of rules, and definitely the style of play, really freed us up to make our own stories, and share in the worldbuilding.
The stereotypes about OSR players being old male grognard rule lawyers are really funny to me, because the only people I know who play OSR are my gaming group, a collection of mostly queer people, all in our early twenties who play Knave and barely look at the book because we play the world not the game.
Ha! While some people might take umbrage at that, I think you have a point. Not sure if you had a chance to finish the video, but I definitely talk about the OSR influences in the creation of 5E, which a lot of folks either ignore deliberately or overlook accidentally. Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@daddyrolleda1 I haven't finished the video yet. But I always have to watch your long videos over a few days. And certainly some people get their feathers ruffled by that statement, but I think the designers did a great job of listening to the OSR when developing 5e and even brought in OSR game devs as consultants. Many people applauded the game during play test and the initial 2014 release as being an OSR victory. Somewhere along the lines as 5e grew in popularity and D&D took the top spot back from Pathfinder the OSR community became very fractured and only able to agree on 1 thing, they don't like 5e players.
I briefly talk about it here at 47:25. It's an interesting situation because when Pathfinder was created, 3.5 had only been gone a year, so calling PF a "retro-clone" seemed like the wrong term. I switched my 3E game (which I began in May 2001) to 3.5 and then to Pathfinder (and it's still running). I remember flying home from a business trip, getting in my car at the airport lost, and racing over to my local game store about 2 minutes before it closed so I could buy the Pathfinder core rulebook (the same one I show in the video) on the day it was published!
@@daddyrolleda1 Yes, agreed PF is a strange use case. At the time it came out it was D&D 3.75 so taking 3e rules and going further with it -- now that 3e is an older edition of D&D you can consider PF 1e a retro-clone of D&D 3e.
You are talking about OSR. Why bother with any edition after !st edition AD&D? It wasn't even about Dungeons and Dragons. It was a counter-movement to the self important elements of the story gaming community (which I still love and endorese to this day) who were trying to intellectually browbeat gamers into accepting them as the new overlords of gaming. I remember endorsing Time-Master a shallow game with a clunky system that was purely focussed on the players having a good time and the GM having an easy time. A small company picked that up and republished it. (one of my many many vicarious achievements). The OSR wasn't ever about D&D. They went to D&D because it was easy and they were feeling lazy.
I'm never going beyond 2nd Edition for rules. It's just "software" bloat at a certain point. Love that people are doing OSR but 100% not interested in buying it.
After being out of D&D since 2nd edition, it was Old School Essentials that brought me back. It was something I was familiar with, a bit more streamlined, easy enough to teach to others, and didn't involve having to deal with digital assets. Was able to convert my board gaming group into now doing an OSE campaign in addition to our regular gaming sessions. The OSR world just seems like an easier gateway for players than diving into 5e. Also for our group, OSR seems to focus on collective creativity for handling situations rather than just an escalating set of PC powers to bash through combat.
I agree with all of this 100%! I like your description at the end about "collective creativity" vs an escalating set of PC powers. That's such a good way to put it.
I do think that it really is easier to grasp and get into an old-school style game, but the marketing and public awareness of the D&D brand name is so huge that it's difficult to overcome with new players, I think. That's partly why, when I asked the parents of the kids for my daughter's group if their kids wanted to play, I said we were playing "D&D" even though I'm really running Old School Essentials. I just use "D&D" like someone would use the word "Kleenex" or "Band-Aid."
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I feel that for those of us that grew up post-crpg era, 5e is more intuitive because you can see the influence that videogames brought. It's a moderately crunchy system but it builds on a feel and expectation that goes along with modern videogames and features most universally applied mechanics- leading to its popularity these days as an entry to the hobby.
And, for me, OSR is "Original Spirit of Roleplaying" ;)
Ooh! I really like that! Well done.
Im so glad you broight up hackmaster. It was my primary game for years
How fun! How did you hear about it? I only knew of it from working on advertising for Wizards of the Coast and my client telling me the history.
@@daddyrolleda1 well you've added to my knowledge base. My best friend and his brother were fans of the knighs of the dinner table comic strip and found it from there. We played it from early 2000s until 06 and we picked it up again in 2021. There is still a community around HM it has a 5th addition which is also based off another system and modified to suit their needs, like 4th ed that is shown in this video. To give you an example of some of the humor. Blood mage is in the index but not the book and somewhere it says it's in the DMG and the DMG says it's not in there becuase it's too hood for players. Also they're fireballs on basically ever spell level for magic users. Skipping Betty fireball, sidewinder fireball. Items like chainmail bikini of major eye gouging or the axe of rapid whacks
OSE is the gold standard for layout, presentation, etc... in the OSR world. It's as clean and nice as it gets. I ended up buying the two-volume Old-School Essentials Advanced Fantasy books, since we have been playing an amalgam game of B/X with AD&D 1e pretty much for 40+ years now. OSE Advanced Fantasy is about as close as it gets to what we play. heh We still play the game we always played, but I had to get the OSE books, even if just to read and cherish. :-) Perfect presentation. Love it.
OSE is a great game -- I'd argue though that Lamentations and Shadowdark -- match OSE in terms of layout/presentation. Depends on what you want.
I agree! It's easy to read (the font choice particularly; some fonts, to me, aren't as easy to read at a distance when I have the book open at the table) and the information is *usually* organized in a way where I can find what I'm looking for quickly. There were a few times where Gavin put a rule about something in a place that didn't seem intuitive to me, but I've gotten used to it. And agreed, I thought the Advanced Fantasy stuff was such a great idea. I know Labyrinth Lord did it first with Advanced Edition Characters, but once again, I think the presentation in OSE really nailed it.
@@daddyrolleda1 There is a subtle difference between LL and OSE in terms of the AD&D classes. Because of the design philosophy of OSE, the classes in OSE from AD&D are more B/X-like and the AD&D classes in Labyrinth Lord (not as strict in following B/X) are more AD&D-like. I hope that makes sense.
So, if you like the B/X rule set then IMO OSE is probably the better choice -- and if you're more of a fan of AD&D 1e then OSRIC or Labyrinth Lord IMO are probably better choices. These three are all incredible games!, but being more of a AD&D 1e player my preference between these three rule sets is Labyrinth Lord.
Labyrinth Lord in essence has become more a hybrid between B/X and AD&D 1e.
I like bounded accuracy a great deal. This is one of the best things about 5e in my opinion. OSR did this at our table by increasingly oppressive experience needed to level, but kids today feel like they should reach level 20 in a year.
I would love to see your D&D collection!!
I have quickly come to love Dungeon Crawl Classics. I feels like AD&D when I was 14.
There is so much good stuff in there! I really do like the wildness of the random tables for things like spellcasting. It does slow the game down, but I think it does so for a purpose that makes sense within the context of the game system.
Thank you for watching and commenting!
DCC is a fun system!
I only started playing DCC this year, and it's a blast! I am fascinated by the contradiction of having such streamlined rules (race as class for example) paired with pages and pages of crazy random results.
DCC is the most FUN I've ever had at the table
I'm in love with it.
DCC for fun
And I run Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea for depth 🍻
They both scratch that Swords & Sorcery itch.
I'm a 5e player who's grown weary of the character build arms race that has been a feature of D&D since 2000, of which I was a willing participant. I'm really into Dungeon Crawl Classics and have picked up Castles & Crusaders and Shadowdark. I would consider playing old school type games.
That very much describes me as well. I was really into 3E/3.5/Pathfinder1E and bought a ton of supplements, usually character guides and also campaign settings that included new character options and feats, etc. I was never quite into "builds" as I really am just not good at seeing the connections between things, but I liked new races/classes/feats just for the variety. But around ~12 years ago, I began to really dislike how much time it took me to plan a session and build encounters that were challenging to my players. I was spending more and more time doing searches for specific monster or NPC builds on the Internet and less time thinking about how to react to the choices the players were making.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
been a big fan of Dungeon Crawl Classics since I was first introduced to it. Recently i've gotten into Old School Essentials, and it has done an amazing job of demystifying the more arcane early editions of DnD for me.
That's great to hear! I'm always happy to hear of folks who take a chance on games like this. I'm a huge fan of Old School Essentials, as you could probably tell from the video. And DCC is great, too!
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Old School Renaissance was the original name, though Revival was discussed. I was there. Not saying other interpretations are wrong, though. And no, grognard (grumbler, from the French, pronounced approximately "GROAN-yer" in the original language) is not bad, we call ourselves that all the time.
And oh, lordy, the Dragonsfoot days. That's where I learned to do layout, how to mimic the style of the classic games, all of that. It's where Basic Fantasy RPG was born.
Basic Fantasy RPG was shared with the public in incomplete form months before OSRIC was announced; the author of OSRIC wanted a complete, finished-looking game, while I wanted collaborators. But OSRIC reached print first. How exactly you decide "first" determines which of us "wins." But it's not a contest, not with each other. Stuart Marshall and Matt Finch both contributed to Basic Fantasy RPG at different times... we're comrades, if not friends.
And, I'll point out that "Product Identity" is a legal fiction that only exists in the context of the OGL. No OGL, no such thing as Product Identity. A lovely thing when we changed to Creative Commons licensing was that we escaped at least somewhat from the tyranny of Product Identity.
I am so glad you found my video and came into the comments to share your experiences! That is so awesome! I really appreciate you taking the time to watch and then comment on my video. That's amazing. Cheers!
Awesome video covering a vast topic! I played some B/X in the 80s but didn’t get back into gaming until 4E. I bought the red box starter set with the retro art. Unfortunately the game inside didn’t match what I remembered. Not sure how but I found the OSR/retroclone community and haven’t looked back since. I got to be part of the google+ community and even ran a PBP game on there.
Thanks for including games like Mork Borg which are certainly “old-school” in spirit.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I'm so glad you enjoyed the video!
I do remember that 4E Basic set with the Elmore cover art from the BECMI set. I thought it was a smart marketing tactic to draw in older or lapsed players, but you're right in that I bet there was some disconnect with folks buying that set expecting a different style of play.
Awesome you got to be part of the Google+ OSR community for a bit! I still miss it!
Cheers!
OSR stands for "Oh shit! Run!"
Ha! That cracked me up. Sometimes, it's so true! My daughter's group runs and/or avoids combat often!
Over the last year ans a half I have DM'd several BECMI, rules cyclopedia for high school players.
They really appreciate the speed of play and straight forward ruleset.
Three of the seven regulars have purchased their cyclopedia and have begun running games.
The Rules Cyclopedia is, for many, their "Desert Island" version of D&D since it's everything you need in a single book, and covers up to higher level play as well. I was a B/X kid so I never got into BECMI and the RC as I felt it was just too similar to what I already had, plus we were playing AD&D by that point, but in hindsight I wish I'd at least picked up the RC book when it came out.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Wow! That's amazing!
@daddyrolleda1 print on demand hardcover from DMs guild.
Definitely worth it.
I've never played D&D but I find these videos you're making fascinating.
Oh wow! I take that as a huge compliment!
Do you play *any* tabletop role-playing games?
@@daddyrolleda1 Never have. I like world building for fantasy and science fiction though, so there's a lot of overlap.
I've also bought and sold D&D books that I've found at thrift stores before because I know collectors that want them.
It saved the hobby for me.
That's enough of a reason to recommend it to everyone I meet.
Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea
And
Dungeon Crawl Classics
Are my life.
That is some high praise! And I'm glad to hear you found something you enjoy! Thanks for sharing, and for watching and commenting. Cheers!
I've entirely switched to Shadowdark and have been running an open table campaign for over a year now. I doubt I will ever go back to 5e or 2024 D&D.
I've heard such good things about Shadowdark and it looked great, but I was trying to watch my finances a bit and be cognizant of what i would actually use in my campaign, but I definitely regret not getting in on the ground floor. I'm sure I will pick it up soon(ish).
Thanks for commenting and for your support of the channel!
Always the best content. Start to finish, clean and digestible. Bonus content is a personal favorite as I like to drink nice things and listen to intersting music.
This comment 100% made my day! Thank you so much. Honestly, it really helps make my day better when someone posts a comment like this.
I really appreciate you, and especially that you stayed through the bonus content. Thanks!
Thank you for this video. I need to explore OSR more! There’s so much creativity there! I love the combination of simplicity and richness that many of these new systems have.
This makes me so happy! If just one person who sees this video thinks to themselves, "I should check that out!" then I feel like it was worth it.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting. I really appreciate it!
The OSR is great. The level of creativity is awesome and the ability to mix and match to make your game unique can never be overstated.
Thank you so very much! I of course 100% agree with your assessment, and I'm really so happy to see that many others agree. I've tried to review OSR products on the channel before but they don't get as much interest, but this "overview" video seems to have intrigued some folks, for which I am happy because I hope that means there are lots of folks out there interested in picking or using some of these kinds of things.
Thanks, as always for your support. I am always so touched by your generosity. Cheers!
No need for the “R” in OSR here. I started with BECMI in 1987 and never stopped. I saw subsequent editions but realized they didn’t bring anything substantial to the table that I couldn’t just create myself. It has always shocked me that they ever let people sell their homebrew knock offs in the first place. I understand how this was achieved legally, it just always surprised me that they seemed to go along with it. I suppose you could call it Arneson’s revenge. I imagine Dave grinning with wide eyed joy when the D&D community eventually took a big fat bite out of their bottom line using the same scam that they pulled on him. Love you Dave, you are missed.
37 years and going strong, running 2 campaign groups in a persistent Mystara world currently going for 3.5 years. I have no complaints.
Play what you love, love what you play.
BECMI Forever!
Long Live King Elmore!!
ps-as always, thanks for the excellent work
I appreciate a good discussion about this without all the fighting about who's right. Personally ivevjust gone to saying OS (Old School) brcause if I want to play "old" I'll just go pull my original books from the 70s off the shelf and play. Otherwise I'll play whatever I want and have fun.
"Playing whatever I want and have fun" should really be the mantra of everybody playing a TTRPG, as opposed to not playing but constantly complaining that others are playing incorrectly! 😀
Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Very fun video. Makes me want to try old school essentials. I started with pathfinder and still like it but want to try that different flavor
I'm technically still running a Pathfinder 1E game that began as a 3E game way back in May 2001. We've been on hiatus for a few years due to COVID, people moving, etc.
I'm glad this made you interested in Old School Essentials! If you have questions, let me know!
I love that you use a combination of multiple books. I'm currently running a pirate themed game using ShadowDark as the base with added content from Pirate Borg, Letters in the Dark Zine "Skallywags", and Ghosts of Saltmarsh.
The OGL is specifically about using the language, not the mechanics. Mechanics can’t copyrighted, but the language describing them can be.
…and about locking down language and ideas that they probably don’t own under copyright or trademark laws.
Using the OGL, you agree to give up a fair bit that you could almost certainly do without any license at all.
It's language, but also style and mindset. It's really not about a rule set, although I think in the early days of the OSR, the publicity made it seem that way.
I loved the skills in 2e. They were cool and for the most part just flavor and ancillary. They offered a +1 or +2 over an unskilled character. There were some specializations like Horseback riding which gave you a +4 to do cool shit. They colored your character but didn't replace any core game actions.
One of my absolute favorites was DISPLAY WEAPON PROWESS: Characters who have this proficiency can put on an impressive display of weapon prowess without fighting at all - swords whooshing in a blur, daggers flashing, arrows splitting melons in two. An individual must use a weapon with which he or she is already proficient, but weapon specialization has no further effect. The "show" takes at least a round. Those who are impressed are forced to make a morale check.
I use them in my Shadowdark + game. Anyone can attempt anything. There is a short list of stuff you can't do without the skill, weaponsmithing etc.
I remember "Display Weapon Prowess"! I feel like that was in the Complete Bard's Handbook? That's where I seem to recall having first seen it.
I like how you are combining different rules for your "Shadowdark+" game. That's exactly how I play, too!
As weird queer alternative kid growing up in the 80's influeneced by l post-punk and Goth, OSR resonates with the D&D we actually played and continued to play - absolutely about creativity rather the rules or rolls.
I love hearing this, especially because I don't think folks realize that the OSR isn't all just, as I mentioned in my video, old guys playing early editions who hate change. There's a huge variety in the OSR community and it's bigger and more diverse than I think folks realize. I honestly sometimes don't like to announce that I play OSR games because I think a lot of folks have a negative view of it and would lump me in with a group of people based on their perceptions. But I think, slowly, those perceptions are changing. Cheers, and thank you so much for watching and commenting!
@@daddyrolleda1 well I am almost 50 - so hardly that young. But gaming has always had a space for folks who didn't fit in with 'respectable' society! I played Basic and AD&D, Rune Quest, Advanced Fighting Fantasy at the time. Then headed into various other gaming avenues before discovering OSE, DCC and Mork Borg. Later D&D lost me by becoming too high powered, not being just about pen and paper (I have never been bothered by miniatures one way or the other) and massively commercial.
I have kids now who want to play and we will explore Dolmenwood together over the coming years. And if they want to be something wild and weird we will roleplay it and storytell it rather than needing a multi class half species specialist rule set.
Your videos have absolutely been part of the journey of rediscovery - thank you.
Very much looking forward to watching this one! I’ve been enamored with the OSR ever since I discovered it around 2015.
Thank you so very much! I really appreciate it! You'll see a reference to your favorite game, Hyperborea, toward the end. Cheers, and thanks again!
I have been running Old School Essentials for a while now. Our gaming group loves it.
That is so great to hear! I love hearing that smaller publishers like this are getting a chance and being adopted by gaming groups. Thank you for sharing!
Thanks for noting the way 5e actually has old school elements baked into it... even if it takes a li'l digging to coax them out. I read the 5e PHB and DMG again over a year ago after engrossing myself in the OSR and I was mildly pleased. As you say, OSR is a style not a ruleset and 5e can totally be played in it.
All that being said, OSE is still my go-to system. Simply reading those books sparks joy in me.
I love OSE! Absolutely.
I was mainly hoping that folks who are solely ingrained in 5E might look at the game differently. But from the data available from UA-cam, I'm not sure if any of those folks find my channel!
Thanks for watching and commenting!
WoTC -- actually went back and looked at all the older versions of D&D. So yeah, not a heavy OSR influence but rather an influence of all the older editions of D&D on D&D 5e. Yeah, after the mess that was 4th Ed (although there were a few good ideas in 4th). They went back and looked at everything from the older editions they thought was good.
B/X Old-School Essentials FOREVER!
That is my game of choice today too, rather than the AD&D version. Dolmenwood is fantastic as OSE BX game!
I am a fan, as you saw!
Daddy Rolled a 21! SO GLAD you made a video on this topic as I have been going back into old school games and OSR products ( particularly interested in getting the Cess& Citadel book thanks to you). I stopped playing D&D at 2e and re-entered the hobby at 5e. After playing 5e for the last year and a half, I find my enjoyment has been flagging and largely it's because of some of the design choices. I feel that the OSR movement is where more interesting design choices and offerings are being made while the 5e group is diluting and becoming overburdened with the menu of options that it becomes extremely irrelevant ( basically every class is a spell-casting class now which diminishes the mystique and risk of becoming a spell-caster; I call it the Harry Potterfication of D&D and I get why they WotC group went that way to maximize new player wish-fulfillment but it makes for a style of game that seems less fantastical IMO because it's so common).
Great video and classy bonus content, as always. Cheers 🥃
And, cheers to you! Thank you so much for sticking through the bonus content, and also for watching and commenting. I really appreciate it!
This is a great overview thank you.
You're so welcome. Thanks for watching. I'm really glad you enjoyed it!
Currently playing/running BECMI D&D as a way to teach the history of the game to my spouse.
Slowly but surely this became fascinating!
Very much an "out there" game, The Electrum Archive! Weird Gonzo-Science-Fantasy in a Nausicaa like post apocalyptic world where you smoke the blood of gods to cast randomly generated spells! I even met my Girlfriend playing it, so put that on the box!
That's awesome! I've heard of it but haven't checked it out yet, but am intrigued now by your description. Thanks for the tip! And thanks for watching and commenting!
Excellent game and the creator is a super guy as well
Castles and Crusades has been through a number of printings, but the mechanics have not changed. The various printings cleaned up things like typos and unclear language, but the rules are the same as they were in 2004. C&C did use the OGL, but they recently moved to scrub OGL language from their products and ran a Kickstarter for books without it.
Oh, that's right! I forgot about the recent version. I got my copy from my friend years ago. I didn't look at the print date but I think it was shortly after it debuted.
@@daddyrolleda1 You have the 4th Print (2009) of the Castles & Crusades Players Handbook. You can tell from the cover. That cover is usually called the "cat beast" cover. C&C was first released in 2024, first in a small white box edition (in the late Summer of 2024), and then the 1st print of the hardback PHB was released in Dec, 2004, second print in 2006, and third print in 2007.
I have loved and enjoyed Castle and Crusades since its first creation when Gary Gygax was working at Troll Lord Games with the Chenault Brothers. ❤
Hello Martin! I am now within the spectrum of the guys that would probably play OSR, with grey hair and stuff. I love your channel and I want to point out something regarding the difference between the two covers that you mention at the beginning (Advanced D&D and 2nd Edition AD&D. While the first is indeed more indicative of the adventuring style of "dungeon crawl", with the party killing monsters in order to loot treasure etc. The one of AD&D 2nd Edition, kinda gives a more heroic aspect to the cause of adventuring. I like it more that it gives the feeling of being a hero and not just a dungeon delver/looter. Treasure and wealth can be accumulated by heroic deeds that the art of the second cover speaks more of. I agree though that it should have included more heroes in the drawing as it is a cooperative game at heart. This is an improvement to the game style I think. Now days my opinion is that from hero we have past to the era of Super Hero, which misses the mark. As you can tell I am also a believer to the educational aspect of rpg's. They sure have educated me over the years. Thanks for the great content!
I'm really glad you enjoyed the video!
There are a lot of different approaches to playing the game, and I don't disparage anyone who prefers the more "superhero" style, but I myself prefer a more grounded adventurer who *might* become a hero, if that's what they want to do.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I've been viewing your content for a few months now and have been unexpectedly enthralled by the passion and in depth insight that you deliver.
This video however shatters all benchmarks achieved by anything I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot!
I had no idea that all these 'alternative', or perhaps I should better say 'supplemental', materials existed!! Not too much of a surprise really given the distractions that life can throw in ones path and perforce caused me to give up my active participation in Fantasy RPG gaming. An enduring fascination that I discovered oh so many years ago.
In my youth I was fortunate enough to stumble upon the beginnings of D&D when I first attended a 'Wargames Group day' and was fated to experience their first ever diversion, away from their traditional fare of Napoleonic and WW2 gameplay, when one of the members introduced us to 'Basic D&D' as an addendum to the normal activities; after we completed our re-enactment of the
D-Day landings. He had come across it at his local hobby store and was inspired to try it out at his Games Club.
I was one of two new attendees that day. We, along with one other (relatively new) member instantly became addicted to the genre as our neophyte Dungeon Master guru plunged headlong, successfully, into a new venture. He had a real talent as a DM (thank you Jack, RIP).
From that first introduction we swiftly diverted away from our new DMs traditional fare of Napoleonic.. etc.. gaming and D&D established itself as the major interest of our little group.
We would play at the hall, rented to host the gaming Societies bi monthly activities, then repair to his home and continue for another 6-8 hours more of D&D. This swiftly evolved into us playing every Sunday because we none of us could bear to wait for the next instalment of our adventure into, imagination land.
Sad to say but, after a few highly enjoyable years, life began to impose new priorities and, at an appropriate moment, I had to leave the group. After a while I managed to renew my passion for the game as a DM, rather than as a player, but that too had to end, in time.
I've never lost my love of the game. Just couldn't find/spare the time to indulge it.
When I thought to post a comment here, after watching your video, I had no intention of giving such a personal retrospective regarding my involvement with D&D. Strange how that worked out!
As I said at the start of this meander, somehow, understandably (from my perspective), I've missed out on all these works that you reference in your video!
That said, how UA-cam has never thrown up any other content creator referencing these materials in the (what must be) 1000s of FRPG related videos that I have watched since YT became a thing baffles, frustrates and even annoys me to no end, now that I know they exist!
I can only conclude that you are the only one who has done so, and (thank my own personal Pantheon), in such a comprehensively compelling, in depth fashion.
Kudos to you sir!
You have managed to inspire me to go seek out some (at least) of these resources so that I might perhaps rekindle my own personal creativity anew - now that I have time on my hands to once again indulge my old passion.
Thank you.
Keep up the great work. You are a sparkling gem amongst the mediocrity!
Salut!
I really can't thank you enough for this comment. Reading this just really made me happy and helped remind me that people do pay attention and are entertained and/or informed by the stuff I'm doing. On a personal level for me right now, things haven't been great, but reading this comment really lifted my spirits. I truly thank you for taking the time to watch and then write such a thoughtful comment.
I do hope you are able to check out some of the games I chatted about, and I'd love to hear about your experiences when you.
All my best! Cheers!
My favorite RPG, Basic Fantasy, was made as a response to 3.X, which is the first version of D&D I played. I just find that funny.
Ha! That is funny! How did you end up discovering Basic Fantasy? I'm always interested in how these smaller publishers reach folks who don't already known about them.
@@daddyrolleda1 I was very upset at WotC because of the OGL situation last year. I looked up alternative games (I think it was a Professor DM video, actually) that led me to BFRPG. I wanted to run BECMI as I have some of the books, but some of my players just couldn't figure out THAC0, but I'm glad I did BFPRG as the community over on the forums is great.
IMHO OD&D means the Holmes edition and anything before. Thanks for the share!!
Thank you for watching and commenting. I really appreciate it!
As a teen in the 90s, it was the time that 2e reigned supreme but I learned on Basic (I inherited my older brother's collection who had Holmes, Moldvay, and Mentzer Basic). I really wanted to play D&D, not AD&D. Fortunately I found a DM who loved to run Basic too. I played a ton of other games, but Basic (and Expert) were my favorites to write for. It was such a joy when the OSR came together, and got to exploring so many aspects of the game that intrigued me, especially open world, lighter roles. It was such a joy to see new stuff come out for the books that I have, then advance all those ideas that I like.
I would also like to call out the Hill Cantons/Chris Kutalik back in the early 2010s for advancing the digest-sized books layout, developing the pointcrawl, and introducing a more out there, psychedelic and Slavic-influenced setting and introducing me to the art of Luka Rejec, another excellent OSR/NuSR designer in his own right.
Very well put! I agree 100%! As a kid, we thought AD&D was "superior" but didn't realized we were actually still playing Basic/Expert just with extra "stuff." And I, too, find B/X so much easier to write and create for, and the vast majority of the really creative stuff I see coming out in the OSR is either for B/X or one of its clones, or it's for a System Neutral game that's easily adapted to B/X. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I really want to spend some more time digging into Hill Cantons. I've followed the blog and social media stuff but never bought the books as I kind of missed (or wasn't paying attention to) the era when they were really coming into their own. I hope to rectify that at some point.
@@daddyrolleda1 definitely do, it's very rewarding. I recommend all of Hydra Collective's works highly
it's fascinating to learn about all of this, as someone who only knew of DnD and TTRPGs more broadly through pop culture until playing a variant on 3.5 just using mats the DM had memorized despite 4th already being out at the time(as a side effect, this one's first exposure to 4th was people disliking it). That said, despite having some pathfinder 1e digital stuff, this one's only just starting to actually get INTO TTRPGs with dnd 5th
I'm so glad you found and enjoyed this video as you are continuing your D&D journey! Whichever edition you enjoy is the "right" one!
Thank you very much for watching and commenting. I appreciate it!
@@daddyrolleda1 np, thanks for putting out such an informative video. this one's only real complaint is that the audio feels kinda...empty? not an audio engineer but it's probably the result of using a larger room or something. maybe some light background music or even just audio balancing could help. That aside, the video was well made and informative, and seeing such old books in such good condition was fantastic. And totally understand wanting to keep pizza-fingers off the classics.
Good luck making more in the future too.
Infact I am so obsessed I just bought the making of Dungeons and dragons 1974 to 1977 it was expensive!
Thanks for the video! A lot of good information in this. I tend to stick with the Gary-created 1970s stuff, just out of habit more than anything else. Sure, I've played and run tons of other stuff but I usually head back to 1E AD&D core books to run and play some (O)D&D at Gary Con when I can. I hear people were seeing Kevin's Famous Chili all over the place!
Love the bit about Kevin's Famous Chili at the end there! It was such a surprise to just randomly come across a video with him. His voice is so different in real life, and with a different haircut, it took me forever to recognize him.
Glad you enjoyed the video. Your 1E games, from what I've seen on FB, look like so much fun!
Thanks!
This is such an amazing display of generosity. I am overwhelmed by your kindness and support. Thank you so very much. I truly appreciate it, and I really hope you enjoyed the video. Cheers!
I don't know if this is correct at all, but I always thought of there being different "waves" of the OSR, and depending on what era of the OSR you're thinking of, the R can represent something that defines that era. Like originally you had the era of all the really great retroclones like Basic Fantasy, Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC and Swords & Wizardry. This is the Revival wave. Then after that, you had a second wave of creators inspired by these retroclones who put their own creative spin on these games, whether it be taking these games to new settings or expanding the rules to add missing elements. Like Conan-esque sword & sorcery of Hyperborea or the simulationist kingdom building of the Adventure Conquerer King System. I think of this as the Renaissance era.
Anyways, fantastic video, as always! Cheers!
Would love to see how you piece together mechanics from different rulesets and supplements
Okay! I will begin to include that kind of thing in my "DM Advice" playlist series (which is where I primarily talk about the game I run for my daughter and her friends). Thanks for the idea, and thanks for watching and commenting!
To me, "the OSR" means the non-corporate, community-driven effort to support and promote TSR-era (A)D&D. Any other definition (such as those that admit only vaguely D&D-inspired indie games) just smacks of mission creep and is too inchoate to be useful.
Not to say there's anything wrong with those indie games necessarily, only that they could use their own umbrella term so as not to sow confusion with regard to the movement's original mandate.
Which you have every right to have that opinion. To me, I consider OSR to be an umbrella term, and then there are various subdivisions within it, but it remains a fairly nebulous umbrella at best.
To ne OSR means OGL -- basically the ability for people to create forks of any game that uses the OGL -- I guess the term NuSR or Nu-SR is being coined (for gamed based off of newer games or use new rules) but the OGL is basically what started this entire movement it started with emulating older games -- now it's like forking anything that has an OGL license that someone decides to fork.
TSR invested way too much in lawyers and not enough in the core product.
Just wanted to correct a minor misstatement you made in the video about Lamentations of the Flame Princess (2012)!! Fantastic game!! You mentioned that (although in fairness you weren't sure) that it was the first game with a "slot" mechanic for equipment. It was definitely, not. According to my records you can go all the way back to 1984, to a game called "Toon" (1984), which I believe was the first game that had a slot mechanic for equipment. (Might have even happened earlier than that, but Toon (1984) is the earliest game that I know of that had "slots".)
And then of course after that if you look at computer RPGs -- slot systems were used heavily in the 90s and beyond (they just make so much sense in CRPGs) -- I'm thinking Diablo I (1997) - but I'm sure slots were used much earlier than that in computer RPGs. Not a heavy CRPG gamer myself -- so can't think of any earlier than Diablo I -- from the top of my head right now. If someone knows? I bet it was done in the 80s, just don't know of a specific example.
I’ve never heard anyone say that Moldvay B/X isn’t old school. The edition I’ve mainly seen dissection on is 2ez.
It's a very small subset, but they're out there. They're of the "if it's not written by Gygax, it's not old school" crowd.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I wish Veins of the Earth wasn't out of print. Two OSR products that you didn't already cover, that I think is a must have, is Dungeon Grappling by Douglas H. Cole and Social Encounters Along the Silk Road by RPG Pundit. The former is rewrite of grappling rules, and the latter is expansion on reaction rolls.
We play Shadowdark and Castles and Crusades. Shadowdark is a great option for an OSR/rules light TTRPG with some newer mechanics.
Shadowdark, Dungeonesque, and Five Torches Deep are fantastic games for pulling people away from 5e with familiar mechanics.
Hyperborea and DCC are definitely my favorites these days.
I was aware of the Shadowdark Kickstarter but I held back because I was trying to save money at the time and also I knew that I'd probably not run it but instead just mine from it for the OSE game I run for my daughter and her friends. I do regret not having gotten it, though. Thanks for watching and commenting!
@daddyrolleda1 There's another batch of physical copies going out in august. I just ordered Shadowdark a few days ago
Yes C&C is basically AD&D 1e with D&D 3e mechanics (minus the feat and skill systems) and Shadowdark is old school D&D (borrows heavily from DCC, and a few newer indie games) with D&D 5e mechanics. Both great games!!
14:44 similar age and similar gaming trajectory to you: started with basic D&D, then AD&D and AD&D2 (and some other games, mostly in other genres), then moved away from D&D in college. But the big difference was that I didn’t stop gaming, I just moved to playing other systems. So I was still gaming regularly when D&D3E came out (I believe I was running 2 weekly games and playing in a third at the time).
My take on D&D3E was that it didn’t fix any of the things that I thought were broken in AD&D/AD&D2 (and which I had therefore houseruled), and didn’t change any of the things that had driven me away from D&D. D&D3E made it definitive that what I’d loved about D&D wasn’t what the designers of D&D (and maybe the wider community of D&D players) thought was great about D&D, because the design efforts were focused on “fixing” things I’d never had a problem with or found lacking, while the parts of the rules that _did_ get in the way of play (IME) were being entrenched or even made worse (from my perspective).
And while a lot of the OSR games undid the changes to D&D3[.5]E that I don’t like, they still didn’t do anything to fix or improve the parts of D&D (B/X, BECMI, AD&D1/2) that I felt needed improving.
Instead, where I found the “fixes” were in already-existing trad games (EarthDawn), indie games (Shadow of Yesterday, The Burning Wheel, Dungeon World), and D20 System games putting their own spin on D&D (Arcana Unearthed, Iron Heroes, Blue Rose). At this point, when I want to play D&D I’ll grab either Dungeon World or Arcana Unearthed - they, IMHO, do the most faithful job of capturing the long-running AD&D1/2 campaigns I ran and played back middleshool through college.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I really appreciate your thoughtful and detailed response.
I had completely forgotten about Arcana Unearthed, even though it's sitting here on a shelf not even 4' away from my desk. I was so excited when it came out and I did really enjoy the setting. I wasn't thrilled about the layout (for whatever reason, those old Sword & Sorcery Studios fonts were so difficult to read for me).
I'd love to hear more about your house-rules and what "fixed" you've found in the games you listed.
Thanks again!
Please show the first picture in the 3rd edition players handbook. It has a group of adventures that just fought a dragon. It's right there in the front of the book. Larry Elmore art even.
2nd edition
Sorry, 2E.
1:12:12 Genuine question _why would anyone quibble at that?_
You can't say you're all about making rulings and having a quick and effective game if you have to look up a modifier, or do math to add them together. Why NOT have another tool in your toolbelt?
I like the concept of OSR a lot, but I have not been able to convince my players to try one of them. I specially love OSE and its layout.
Main reason beacause we won't move is because we like having many character options and for mechanics to reflect the narrative. I am reaching the point that I am doing my own mod of Five Torches Deep x Knave x D&D 5e for our group.
It can be a really difficult thing to get around when as a player you're used to having all these options to "build" a character. But that's one of the reasons I've been gravitating back to old school play that doesn't have as much of that. I'm of the "too many options is actually limiting" camp. I know that might not make sense, but the way I view it is that if you have a ton of options to pick from, but you only get to pick a few, that implies that your character *can't* then do the other things they didn't pick.
In an old-school game where you're not picking options, that means my character can try anything. I don't need an ability to swing from a chandelier or break off a table leg and use it as an improvised club or to try to disarm my opponent. But in newer versions of the game, you usually need a feat to try those things, and that also means you're going to then try to do those things every chance you get, even if it's not tactically sound, because you want to amortize the cost of taking the feat.
That's a very simplistic way of explaining it, and there's nothing wrong with playing those types of editions if everybody is having fun!
Thanks for watching and commenting! Your modified 5TD x Knave X 5E sounds like it could be a lot of fun!
@@daddyrolleda1 I completely share your idea on how too many options usually means less, specially for more mundane aspects such as using improvised weapons.
However, the part I would like to rescue from games like 5e (and mostly 3.5 to be fair) is for example a cleric of Kelemvor being able to use a longsword (which is not a blunt weapon, but part of the lore is that the cleregy of Kelemvor do use swords).
It's a small example and in a game a DM could just rule out that this cleric CAN use longswords, however such instances stack and get harder to adjudicate the wider the possible concepts are.
For example, how would a warlock from an infernal pact differentiate from a warlock from a fey pact in an osr style game? aside from aesthetics and some spell choices. We, personally, like how the gameplay can reflect certain lore aspects.
I think you might enjoy my video I just posted today! It talks about how in the late 1E period and going into 2E, there was a shift in Cleric weapons to matching them with their deity's preferred weapon, resulting in some clerics being proficient in edged weapons!
But yes, I do take your point. I think stuff like that makes sense. I like your warlock example... if you're interested, there's a B/X Warlock book by Timothy Brannan: theotherside.timsbrannan.com/2020/05/which-warlock-is-which-ose-edition.html
Tim is kind of "known" as being the "Witch and Warlock" fan across multiple types of games/editions.
Thanks!
Hackmaster! Hell yeah! IDC what the grognards say, It's the true founder of the OSR. They kicked Hasbro's ass, legally, went on to win the GoTY Origins award. Then the OGL popped. They even trolled WoTC by calling it 4th edition, since theu were releasing 3rd ed D&D. They trolled them again when WoTC released 4th ed, and Hackmaster 5e was released.
I flipped through the book so many times at my local game store and planned to purchase it, but I never pulled the trigger. I was thinking that I still had all my AD&D stuff and as such, I probably wouldn't end up using it. But it did look fun!
Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@daddyrolleda1 It looks like you're a collector. Do yourself a favor a pick up the Hackmaster 5e books. There is a PHB, DMG, and two MM. I love the way they look and feel.
I've only ever ran one campaign with it as a paid GM for some college guys, but it was an enjoyable experience. I prefer D100 roll-under skill-based systems, but I took a few ideas from Hackmaster, mostly to do with the initiative system and weapon reach/speed mechanics.
The main difference is that Hackmaster was the result of a very specific set of legal permissions that weren't available to the general public. The OGL was fundamentally different in that it allowed any fan to publish their D&D material without fear of reprisal.
HackMaster and Castles & Crusades for sure lit the way for the first stirrings of the OSR. (And I'll be eternally grateful for TSR's corporate incompetence in allowing Dave Kenzer to walk away with an AD&D license.)
@@willmistretta That's what I alluded to in my OP. The legal stuff and GoTY happened before the OGL and the generally accepted beginning of OSR.
I just believe Hackmaster is the real origin, versus something like C&C or OSRIC,.
I know it doesnt fit the theme, but I would actually be interested in seeing a review of a pathfinder adventure, id I'd like to hear how critical You are of some parts and what parts you like.
I can certainly add that to the list of potential future projects, but I've never actually played a Pathfinder adventure! I've made my own for Pathfinder 1E and ran bits and pieces of some of Paizo's old Adventure Paths that appeared in Dragon magazine for 3.5, but never an official Pathfinder adventure.
For me OSR is any game I will play so about half way through 2nd editions before the fall of the gods arc.
Whoo hoo! Hyoerborea RPG shout out!
Hyperborea is beautiful
A product of passion for sure.
No joke... when I mentioned it, I was thinking in the back of my mind, "Randy will probably appreciate this." Cheers!
@@iantaran2843 it’s my favorite way to play D&D.
Hackmaster 5TH edition rpg is the best clone of d&d, with rules that makes sense. But its not for crybabies🎉
Is there anything specific about 5th Edition that makes it better than the previous ones? I had thought, by-and-large, that most editions of Hackmaster were pretty similar to each other. Is that not the case?
Also, thank you very much for watching and commenting!
(Shows a 1980s book)"I started with what most people would not consider an old school game" ... "Some people would argue this isn't old school."
Yeah, I'm sure. And some people are idiots.
BX is DEFINITIVELY old school, and 75% of the systems labeled "OSR" are based off of it. If some RPG hipster "redefining" OSR is stating that Moldvay Holmes Basic isn't old school, they are just being contrarian and making shit the f*ck up.
I 100% agree with you, and honestly was taken aback when I learned there were some folks who don't consider any of the "Basic" line (Homes / Moldvay / BECMI / RC) to be "old school."
But, I've also tried to accept, as I've gotten older, that fandoms can be so very insular and people like to create their communities where they can discuss the things they want to discuss. I may not agree, but if they're happy and not hurting anyone, I guess it's fine... even if I think it's odd.🙂
@@daddyrolleda1 "Bro, you ain't playing Old School if its not the draft version of First Fantasy Campaign or Tonisburg set in Blackmoor using a cobbled together ruleset of Braunstein + Chainmail, and conjuring the spirit of Arneson with a Ouija board to DM it"
(but seriously, no you're 100% correct, the Basic line is absolutely old school)
I started with 2e, and am still playing 2e, so I haven't really ever felt the need to look into osr. I wouldn't say I have an aversion to new games either - I just have an aversion to WotC (and to paradox interactive now). I end up picking up a lot of stuff (that doesn't have a d20, 5e, WotC or OGL logo on it)
I've picked up a few actual OSR games but not with the intent of playing them, but rather to mine them for ideas for the B/X game I'm running. I usually go more for supplements like the ones I show in this video, though. To me, there's a lot of really creative ideas coming out of the OSR that I enjoy putting into my game.
I played a ton of 3E/3.5 and bought a lot of stuff for it, but now that I'm back to playing B/X, I've not really been buying anything from WotC, not because I don't like them, but because it's not useful or relevant to me. I really do like their Art & Arcana book, however, about the history of D&D artists. That's a great resource and includes pictures of a lot of cool things like seeing Gary Gygax's handwritten notes on art from the original artists for D&D telling them what to draw and/or change/revise for the first three little brown books. That kind of stuff is fascinating to me.
having only played ADND 1e [1981-1992] yes i know...ugh im expanding my horizons slowly...and being away from the hobby since 1992 until 2020, i fell back on the old school gaming in order to wrap my head around playing again. Having said that I decided to write my own game rules to stream line what I thought was a complex way to play [for me] and try to bring some simplicity and controlled chaos, as well as game time speed, into my game play. Then i had a look at 5e...oh my, colourful, very much geared towards the video gaming culture, [in my view], and way too easy to play without fear of a character dying. [again in my view]... and so...ya created my own flavour of the OSR, good or bad, it works for my brain, simple but effective. I did look at OSE, really liked the logical layout of the OG game. have looked at BF again a very nicely redone version of the OG. Also looked into Shadowdark, Knave, ICRPG, DCC, and some others... all of these have inspired my own game and following content creators such as yourself, are keeping me inspired to stay in the hobby, so .. thank you.
Check the Castles and Crusades players handbook...pdf is free on their website...it's basically a streamlined version of 2nd edition with some of 3rd editions mechanics but none of the feats or skills. Very modular and you can easily add things you like from other games etc.
@@captainhrothgar4637 cheers, i have it :)
Thanks, interesting and thorough video. I cut my teeth on the Moldvay basic set in 1981. I want to like OSR content, including supporting indie creators, but I just can't get excited about it. 5e is flexible enough that you can play OSR style play (IMO). I just supported the ShadowDark kickstarted, I flipped through the core rulebook and it just looks like a kids game (which is fine). I showed it to my players, adults in their 30s and 40s (one in his early 50s) and got it a solid "meh." OSR seems to weaken player agency. Also, the OSR seems to lean into the combat/wargaming roots more than 5e and I reject the criticism that skill based systems harm player imagination - skills don't water down player agency they enhance it. I'm DMing the Wild Beyond the Witchlight now and I love it, players have alternatives to 'killing monsters' and by including story reward progression they have less of an incentive to fight everything they see. However, Martin, your enthusiasm for OSR content is infectious, and I'm thinking of taking a second look at OSR, Knave etc. I will say that the history of TSR/D&D is a fascinating subject to me and I can't seem to get enough of it - thank you for making such detailed content, I'm enjoying your analysis immensely.
I appreciate this comment so very much! Thank you for taking the time to watch and then to write such an insightful comment. I also appreciate that while we might not agree on all the details, you are cordial and conversational with your "arguments" (which feels like too strong a word, but hopefully you get where I'm coming from). In short, I love comments like this.
So nice to meet a fellow Moldvay "initiate"! And we started the same year, as well (although I was at the very tail end of 1981 when I began playing).
5E *is* a very flexible system that support a lot of different styles of play, especially if the players and the DM can agree on any potential restrictions (classes, feats, species options, etc.). So many of the complaints I hear about 5E are related to all the options, which I've never understood, because they are called "options" for a reason. If you don't like them, don't use them!
I'm not 100% sure I agree with you about the combat/wargaming roots of the OSR. I'm sure it's there in some of them, but I don't think all of them. One of the products I mention, which is a review, and also the first video I ever made for the channel, is "Big Terror in the Streets" which is a murder mystery investigation adventure in 1600s Paris. There is very little combat-oriented aspects to it at all. That's just a single example, of course, but my point is that any game system can have material created that focuses on a specific thing (combat, puzzle solving, exploration, etc. - all based on the preferences of the person who created the material).
And lastly, I'm really glad you enjoy my history videos. I enjoy them, too, but they do take a substantial amount of time to craft and research, so every once in a while, doing something like this is a nice palate cleanser for me!
Cheers, and thanks again for watching and commenting.
@@daddyrolleda1 Thanks Martin! Indeed, you may convince me of your view - I'm a persuadable voter :)
To be fair, the 2e PHB is a call back to the original Men & Magic art for OD&D, so it's hard to say it "changes the tone" of the game while it's actually returning to the source.
That's an interesting comment. I never thought of it that way -- but now that I think of it that Easley cover is -- a fancy version of the old Men & Magic cover.
Ah, this explains a lot. I thought it stood for Onion Scented Rugelach.
I cannot recommend the Referee Book from the Grindhouse Edition of Lamentations of the Flame Princess highly enough.
Lamentations is a great time.
Peak adventure modules
I like AD&D 1e due to the very flexible game system that you can apply common sense to any situation. AD&D 2e was okay for a bit but it and every version after became a bloated mess.
Longhaired, bearded, and unapologetically militant "grognard" here. You've done a fine job covering the main points of the whole "OSR thing." I see the whole thing as more of a mindset as well as a rules style and art style. I started with Moldvay B/X around 82 or so at the age of 11 or 12. Its my opinion that 2E AD&D was the beginning of the end and WOTC was the final nail in the coffin. People who enjoy the newer versions are more than welcome to do so. It's too far away from what I know and love for me. Also, it pushes a visual and rules style as well as a social agenda that I do not agree with. In short, it has become mainstream trash. This is fine....I will stick with my own thing. Again, great job! Keep up the awesome work.
Thank you so much for watching and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it. I, too, started with Moldvay Basic in the late Fall/early winter 1981. When 2E came out, I'd moved and lost my group, and the new group I found was playing Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, so I didn't actually *play* 2E, but I did incorporate stuff from it, mostly class kits, into the 1E campaign I was designing.
Due to working at the ad agency that handled Hasbro, I ended up working on WotC's advertising for a while and they sent me the 3 core books for 3E (that's the Player's Handbook I show in the video) and my co-workers asked me to start a campaign, which is how 3E sucked me back into D&D. But I definitely prefer the OSR style games now, and I think you're correct in that it's also a mindset. I just find the products much more creative and designed specifically to be read and used easily at the table.
Thanks again!
@stevefugatt7075 When critics unfairly paint the OSR and the people who enjoy OSR games in a bad light, you are exactly the kind of person they are thinking about. It's a shame that people like you taint what is otherwise a WELCOMING, vibrant, creative, and all around awesome corner of the TTRPG community.
That's too bad, but happily, despite such outliers, the OSR community is still filled with good, decent people who are great ambassadors of the hobby. As long as newcomers known folks like you don't represent what the OSR is, it will continue to grow.
Warming up a paper shredder before each session. By feeding a blank character sheet into it. When a character dies, then press the power button on. It helps to curb seperation anxiety among the players.
Basic Fantasy FTW!
I do wish there were more games that accepted more than 4 races or "good" races, thank goodness basic fantasy has that in spades and does away with alignment unless you REALLY want them.
Among other things there's too much politics in 5e
What "politics" are in 5th edition?
Please be specific.
If I had one complaint about the OSR stuff, it would be that too many of them are trying to be gimmicky. DCC (especially this one, I cannot get past the ridiculous 0th level character funnel to give this more than a glance), Knave, Shadowdark (the torch mechanic literally feels like a videogame), Mork Borg, etc, are okay but they lean more into "caricatured idea of what D&D was back in the 80s" when we have proof of how it was in the 80s. OSE is okay but there's too many B/X clones (Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy, etc.). At this point I'd say just go with AD&D 1e and be done with it; it really is the most complete set of rules, because as it was more or less designed to be the "universal" set of rules for conventions.
Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea is what sold me on the OSR.
And DCC is AMAZING and fun but only for shorter goof off games.
Not campaign material for sure 🤣
I started off OSR with AD&D but don't like the density of the ruleset. I prefer a B/X engine with 1e choice.
DCC is a fantastic system, and the funnel is a ton of fun. The game is great for Sword and Sorcery games. Best magic system ever!
Original modules, I mean
007 license to shake but not stir
Firstly, thank you SO MUCH for watching the bonus content! I really appreciate it. I love making these videos, but I do record them "in order" so to speak, so the bonus content is my chance to kind of wind-down and switch gears from "research" or "presentation" mode and just relax for a bit.
Secondly, this is such a great point. The "short" (for me) version is:
1) Ian Fleming liked his Martinis shaken, even though the original recipe called for it to be stirred (since it's all booze). It was just his personal preference.
2) When you shake gin in an all-spirits cocktail, you "bruise" the gin. A lot of folks use that term without understanding its meaning. But a huge benefit of gin is its aroma. If you over-chill it by shaking, you end up masking the aroma, which diminishes the pleasure of the drink. (But the addendum of course is that if you have citrus, cream, or egg, white, you *have* to shake, or those ingredients won't incorporate).
3) Fleming created a cocktail in the book "Casino Royale", called the Vesper, that uses a split-base of Vodka and Gin. Interestingly, as Vodka's main benefit is that it's colorless, odorless, and flavorless, over-shaking and over-chilling does not cause any harmful effects, as you can't mask the odor of something designed to be odorless.
4) Cocktail nomenclature is weird. If you make a Martini (with gin, of course, it's part of the recipe; one created with Vodka is properly called a Kangaroo), but you shake it instead of stir it, it's properly called a Bradford. The only difference is that it's shaken instead of stirred.
Anyway... I hope you enjoyed. This wasn't meant as a dismissive "Actually..." moment but more an opportunity to talk about something else I'm passionate about - home bartending.
Cheers, and thanks again for watching and commenting!
@@daddyrolleda1 thanks for that interesting gin fact.
I remember when there were other games. To me playing dungeons and dragons feels like sitting in a bomb shelter after a nuclear holocaust. So much has been lost and for no good reason.
I can see that point of view. For me, I feel like there are so many people now who are interested in learning about the history of the game, how and why it was created, and the folks who created it. But that could be just because I'm biased by the folks who follow my channel. But getting new releases, such as "Foundations of Blackmoor" gives me hope that there is a group of folks who want to ensure the early days of the hobby aren't lost.
@@daddyrolleda1I am a bit of a codger now, but I am less interested in the history than I am in the ideas. I do not mind newer versions of D&D borrowing ideas from other games, but it creaks and shudders when it tries to change too much.
I think more people are starting to get more experimental.
Why don't you monetize some modules from the campaign that you create for your daughter? That would be actually quite sweet.
Maybe I can try to add some of that stuff to a Patron. I'll toy around with the idea. Thanks!
Last I checked, OSRIC and Basic Fantasy, wasn't written by Gary Gygax either, so if persons whom want to "define" what the OSR is or isn't for others. I believe most RPG players can define what they feel the OSR is to them, and it has nothing to do what strangers think about their definition. 0 D&D, AD&D, & BECMI I would consider to be OSR products cause the ARE the originals, have other companies tried to clean up the rules and such in modern times, like Swords & Wizardry & OS Essentials, sure, makes it more modern and easier for the younger generation. But saying original versions of D&D & AD&D are not OSR is flat subjective, and history actually says others. I don't play OS Essentials, OSRIC or Basic Fantasy, but I will play AD&D and BECMI if I want go old school gaming. If I want somewhere in the middle, I will go Castles & Crusades, DCC, or even D&D 3.5E. People and tables can define what the OSR is to them, an industry doesn't define that so the "increase sales" comes across as snobby marketing to me.
Gary Gygax must have done some occult research, okay the satanic panic stuff was weird because none of the spells contain actual incantations it is all suggestions however no one finds it strange you never really hear about Gygax,s or Elmore research or reference points it wouldn't suprise me if they were both Mason's. Please read Dark dungeons by Jack.T.chick I am truly obsessed I am not even a big 5e fan. I am trying to find someone to play my becmi basic dungeons and dragons set the art is. Nostalgic and inspires my imagination way more, oh Iike these posts!
wotc's take on OSR: dangerously unwoke, demonize at all costs...
No mention of Lion &Dragon? What a shame, really incomplete to talk about the OSR and not mention the RPG pundit. Anyhow good overall review, I would say the OSR is not a small part of the hobby it's a major player now I would say, particularly with wotc and pazio dying off.
Its hard because parts of the OSR I don't mind and the people part varies from cool people to grifters to political people to social outcastes. I don't care for the politics or the social outcastes part.
I'm here for the content.
If they get political or agenda driven I tend to ignore it unless it is influencing their work 😅
So far my favorite creator seems to entirely stay out of it and I genuinely appreciate that.
@@iantaran2843 I feel that way as well. I'm not asking anyone to be be anything they aren't I'm sick of the nonsense.
@@martinbowman1993 That's why I appreciate a content creator who makes their online presence about the thing they created and not their salty opinions.
Hyperborea has been a blessing.
Everything on both the game accounts and creator accounts are all about Hyperborea or heartwarming personal stuff like marriage and pets.
No agendas being pushed
No thinly veiled hate at political figures or groups of people.
Just passion for the fantasy they created 🍻
One of the guys who consulted on D&D 5E has done a number of interesting OSR games based on his historical research. "Lion and Dragon" is based on the Wars of the Roses in Medieval England. The latest "Baptism of Fire" is set in 10th century Poland. Well worth a read.
I appreciate the effort that the OSR community have put in, but I don't really get the appeal of early DnD as people usually describe it. I care more about character and story than anything else, so the reminiscing about how DnD should be exclusively about rooting through Wizard Crypts in the pursuit of riches just sounded dull as dishwater to me. Maybe I was talking to the wrong people, though...
To be fair you can run the old stuff the same way you run 5e and other modern games if your character and story driven.
You just need to be self aware of the low numbers.
Honestly it can make for good narrative play if you have a good DM because there aren't any rules holding down the gameplay.
At the same time I highly recommend games like Exalted and Numenera (The Cypher System) for folks in love with the storytelling piece of the TTRPG pie.
If you ARE interested in attempting to approach the OSR I highly recommend reading Principia Apocrypha; Principles of Old School RPGs.
It's short, free, and easy to locate.
I often find that the lower the amount of rules, and definitely the style of play, really freed us up to make our own stories, and share in the worldbuilding.
The stereotypes about OSR players being old male grognard rule lawyers are really funny to me, because the only people I know who play OSR are my gaming group, a collection of mostly queer people, all in our early twenties who play Knave and barely look at the book because we play the world not the game.
5e is the most popular OSR game.
Ha! While some people might take umbrage at that, I think you have a point. Not sure if you had a chance to finish the video, but I definitely talk about the OSR influences in the creation of 5E, which a lot of folks either ignore deliberately or overlook accidentally.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@daddyrolleda1 I haven't finished the video yet. But I always have to watch your long videos over a few days.
And certainly some people get their feathers ruffled by that statement, but I think the designers did a great job of listening to the OSR when developing 5e and even brought in OSR game devs as consultants. Many people applauded the game during play test and the initial 2014 release as being an OSR victory.
Somewhere along the lines as 5e grew in popularity and D&D took the top spot back from Pathfinder the OSR community became very fractured and only able to agree on 1 thing, they don't like 5e players.
To quote Kamala Harris, "We are not going back".
No love for the purported flagship of the D&D retro-clones - Pathfinder?
I briefly talk about it here at 47:25.
It's an interesting situation because when Pathfinder was created, 3.5 had only been gone a year, so calling PF a "retro-clone" seemed like the wrong term. I switched my 3E game (which I began in May 2001) to 3.5 and then to Pathfinder (and it's still running). I remember flying home from a business trip, getting in my car at the airport lost, and racing over to my local game store about 2 minutes before it closed so I could buy the Pathfinder core rulebook (the same one I show in the video) on the day it was published!
@@daddyrolleda1 Yes, agreed PF is a strange use case. At the time it came out it was D&D 3.75 so taking 3e rules and going further with it -- now that 3e is an older edition of D&D you can consider PF 1e a retro-clone of D&D 3e.
Why?
*M A G I C* /Shia fingers
You are talking about OSR. Why bother with any edition after !st edition AD&D? It wasn't even about Dungeons and Dragons. It was a counter-movement to the self important elements of the story gaming community (which I still love and endorese to this day) who were trying to intellectually browbeat gamers into accepting them as the new overlords of gaming. I remember endorsing Time-Master a shallow game with a clunky system that was purely focussed on the players having a good time and the GM having an easy time. A small company picked that up and republished it. (one of my many many vicarious achievements).
The OSR wasn't ever about D&D. They went to D&D because it was easy and they were feeling lazy.
I'm never going beyond 2nd Edition for rules. It's just "software" bloat at a certain point. Love that people are doing OSR but 100% not interested in buying it.