Ranking the BEST Starter in Every Pokémon Game!
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- Опубліковано 22 лют 2023
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Credits: Craig Livingstone (Script & Research), Weebra (Editing), Shane Williams (Production & Content) Business Inquiries: thesmithplays@ellify.com
I'm in my 30's, it's 1AM, and I'm watching an in-depth breakdown on Pokemon starters.
.........You are not alone.
Same. And I’m considering picking up Scarlet with DLC this year…..
Gang
Me too
6 o'clock in the morning, similar age, haven't slept yet and I am watching this (just set up a Retro-Pi, so yeah...) :D
You forgot that Infernape could use Thunder Punch, Grass Knot, and Earthquake.
Infernape is just cheating
And if you're playing D/P instead of platinum it's either that or ponyta so if you want a fire type it's the best option
Seriously what were they thinking when they made infernape he is a grass move earthquake thunderpunch fire moves fighting moves what else could he bloody have
@@theguy6680 Rock Slide or Stone Edge, U Turn, Shadow Claw, set up options with Swords Dance and Calm Mind…
@@yorecf9641 yeah this is a perfectly balanced starter you could only be more broken if he had like scold or something
What we really see here is mostly that water is the best type and grass the worst. But most games have abundant water types whereas especially fire can be rare.
Yeah, I'd be interested in seeing how the rankings differ if opportunity costs for that team slot were considered. Like Blastoise might be the best gen I starter in a vacuum, for instance, but I can never justify choosing it because Gyarados and/or Lapras are nearly as good and nearly automatic, and Starmie and Slowbro are also worth running if for no other reason than their psychic typing.
@@GroundThing That'd be interesting to see. Gen 1 doesn't have really good Plant types (Victribell being a menace just because of toxic+wrap-strats) but does have decent fire types (Arcanine as major contender).
I legit can't remember a decent Johto plant type, so i pretend there aren't any. There aren't really an fire types but still an abundance of water types, especiall with a semi-free shiny(!!) Garados.
Hoenn has some decent Plant types (Ludicolo, Roselia, Wielie (does it get storm drain in gen 3?)), decently early fire Mons and an abundance of powerfull water types. I'd say this may be the most evened out generation in terms of replacements.
Shinnoh has an upgraded Roselia (Which is arguably one of the best darn plant types ever), an abysmal amount of (bad) fire types (I think platinum has ponyta at least?) and the usual gaggle of water types. Which would boost the dominancy of Infernape even more.
5th gen (forgot the regions name) has a bunch of decent plant types, can't really remember the fire types (besides Chandelure which is a splendid one, albeit late) but has significantly fewer water types. But there's still a few decent picks in every typing to be found.
Kalos is.. uhm.. can't remember much, i admit. :D
Alola has a big diversity just on the second island for wateer, fire and plant types, so i'd say Primarene stays supreme.
And admitedly, i did not play the newer two game, because i do not agree with GF anymore. So i can't give an educated opinion on those games.
But i'd say the big issue in the older games is the lack of (decent) fire types (Sinnoh being the worst offender). While most newer games being alot more balanced in that regard.
@@GroundThing the issue with those free water types is that you'll get them on such a low level that you get another huge cost slapped onto them because you have to pretty much pause your entire adventure and spend way too much time bashing low level mons for them to reach a usable level. Gyarados is the worse offender here, because even evolved its special attack is really awful and getting it as a Magikarp means you're in for even more grinding. Lapras on the other hand is obtained extremely late and far too low leveled (level 15 in the originals, 25 in the remakes). At this point you can have a level 43 Blastoise, and since pretty much every mandatory trainer afterwards is in a disadvantage against a water type with ice/ground coverage (and dark in the remakes), Blastoise alone can comfortably clear the game from this point on. So there's not really any opportunity cost involved simply because the free water types you get are on such an awfully low level, and most are obtained extremely late too.
It's a different story with X/Y for example, where you get a free level 35 Lapras comparably early on, which can easily replace Greninja.
The same is also true for the other starts in Kanto btw. as Exeggutor is really easy to obtain and hits far harder than Venusaur. But even though you can catch it at level 30, that's still pretty low leveled.
I think part of what we're seeing here is a function of the types themselves, rather than necessarily the quality of the starters in most cases.
Water could very well be the best type in the series. Offensively it has three strengths and three weaknesses. However, in practice, two of those weaknesses are irrelevant, because nearly every Water-type has access to Ice moves, which cover Grass and Dragon, leaving it pretty much only unable to hit Water-types effectively. Defensively, it has only two weaknesses to four resistances, and of those weaknesses, Grass tends to be a relatively uncommon coverage move type.
Fire is a pretty decent type overall. Offensively it has four strengths and four weaknesses. One caveat of this is that two of its strengths are from gyms that tend to be relatively early (Bug and Grass) and its most prominent weakness, Water, is fairly often seen in the late game even as an ancillary type. Defensively, it has six (!) resistances and only three weaknesses, but its weaknesses are Water, Ground, and Rock, the first of which is, as mentioned, a very common type, and the second of which is a very common coverage move type (since Ground is arguably the best offensive type in the game). So solid, but fairly exploitable weaknesses.
Grass really suffers from the type being possibly the worst in the series. Offensively, it has only three strengths to SEVEN weaknesses. And two of those strengths overlap with Water, which means that Water, hitting neutrally more often, is the better play in every situation except against Water itself. Defensively it fares little better, having five weaknesses to only four resistances. Even Bug has better balance than Grass - it's just as bad offensively, but better defensively (3 weak/3 res).
You can tell where this is going - the game has a natural inherent bias favoring Water and against Grass, with Fire landing in the middle. So purely by a function of that, Grass-type starters are going to struggle more in general. Bulbasaur managed to overcome that disadvantage on the basis of having a Poison secondary typing (Poison being one of the best defensive types) and Gen 1's incredibly disastrous move balancing essentially negating Bug, Poison, and Flying as consistent threats, though this was somewhat offset by Psychic being brokenly good. But Grass being frequently at the bottom of subsequent gens isn't really an accident, especially with secondary typings seeming to hurt more than they help (4x weaknesses to Ice and Flying...not good.)
I agree. Never take a water starter because they're such a common type in game
Samurott can learn Megahorn (through the use of a heartscale), a 120 base power bug type attack, perfect for sweeping the dark AND psychic type elite four members.
I just started playing Gen 5 for the first time. I picked snivy. Im at lvl 30 right now and yeah its not an easy game with my simple team and no knowledge of what pokemon types the enemies are. I wouldve picked one of the others if I knew id have this tough of a time haha.
There's also Grass Knot if the heavier Rock types are giving you a struggle. Ice Beam to counter the Grass types. I believe Dragon Tail is another option? So provided you're playing Black Edition (which I do,) Zekrom isn't as hard a threat as it could be.
Megahorn is also perfect for missing at the most important times
@@SerDerpish I've never had much issues with Megahorn. Maybe I've just been lucky :p
@@SerDerpish Nah, that's Focus Miss
Mudkip goes without saying at this point. He's just awesome
thank you for agreeing, you are amazing
I mean he is the best starter
He is more than awsome
I agree so much
Bestpert is the bestpert.
I'm so glad someone is giving Feraligatr the love he deserves
He's a beast tho.
I don’t think I’ve played through gen 2 with Fred(aka feraligatr)
Yes
The best boi
This
For gen x&y, there’s something that changes everything. The fact you get a kalos starter, and a kanto starter. This makes Delphox an amazing combo with venasaur.
Oh yeah and get a water pokemon and its a triple threat
If you got the Speed Boost Torchic at the event, you can use the powerful starter squad of Greninja, Venusaur and Blaziken!
This doesn't actually change anything. When you get the Kanto starter, it's already severely underleveled, making it no different from a wild mon caught with that type. The entire appeal of starters is that they are usually constantly high leveled for their area.
The Kanto starters have megas, but you do get a far stronger mega for free already able to evolve anyways.
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 Not you with this "underleveled pokemon taking time to level up" BS again. Can you keep this nonsense to your response to my comment or just delete it and stop bringing it up entirely. PLEASE?
To be fair, I originally picked Delphox but when I found I could get a Kanto starter I restarted with Chesnaught so I could then get Charizard.
I really think you undervalued the fact of just how common other Pokemon being the same type are. Besides Gen 5, no other games in the series have Water Pokemon shortages. While this doesn't change things for Pokemon like Swampert who's type combination is just so dominant or generations like Kalos or Alola where there's pretty much equal representation between all 3 types, it does make the rare type Pokemon that much more valuable. Kanto does not have a Water problem, while it does have only a handful of Grass types and Fire types (and not many good ones at that). Typhlosion is like one of 3 Fire types you get in the game, meanwhile there's plenty of Water Pokemon who fill the exact same role that Ferraligatr does. Infernape is pretty much the must pick because it's literally one of only 2 Fire types in Diamond and Pearl, regardless of how good the other two are. Samurott is one of the only three good Water types in Gen 5, the other two being Seismitoad and Jellicent (while it becomes less necessary in B2W2 with more viable Water types in the game where I feel Emboar becomes the best starter)
exactly , i’m a little disappointed he did not mention that cus if memory serves, the only other fire type in gen 4 you can use other than infernape is rapidash💀
@@kiiree1178 houndoom is pretty good as well but infernape is the best fire type obviously its starter pokemon
You do have Magmortar in Platinum he actually hits like a truck that’s actually why I grab piplup in platinum because there’s no other good water types yes you have Gyarados but I really like to only use new Pokémon so yeah Magmortar is a solid pick in platinum
@@robertwolff3580 Yeah in Platinum you have more options, not Diamond and Pearl. Flareon, Magmortar, and Houndoom
@@robertwolff3580 magmortar is trade evolve which i really hate and gastrodon is one of my all time fav pokemons actually because it looks like lapras
I am so proud of Chikorita and Chespin for cementing their place in history as the best starters, maybe even best pokémon in the entire series. Truly, they are some of the greatest golfers I've ever known, pulling out scores that even Kahili would be proud of
nahhh
Nope the worst starter choices are those 2!
I love the sarcasm sooo much, made me crack a chuckle
my guy zach and rebecca have encountered sarcasm. They do not understand it
@@rebeccalogue5366 learn how golf scores work
Sad thing about chikorita is how rough jotho is for a pure grass pokémon. It's moves are fine, shame a move that would help a lot (earthquake) is locked so late into the game.
If she was in any other region she would feel so much better to use, because early razor leaf is so nice.
I play with a randomizer a lot and one of my favorite things to do is see how well starters do in other regions. Chikorita lowkey dominates Hoenn with access to great support moves like reflect and synthesis not to mention works excellent in tandem with a Ninetales whose ability is drought.
@@parisbower6939 A supportive starter is still a good starter nonetheless :3
@@thomasjay3291 exactly, especially since Gen 3 introduced doubles battles I honestly got a new respect for Meganium solely as a partner for more offensive based Pokémon
Johto itself was really bad
@@Masterchief0521 sir I’m going to have to ask you to leave now
Totodile! My boy! My buddy! My jolly pool of cute and cool! I admittedly have played a bunch of the games with Totodile as the main buddy and I just always loved imagining the happy-go-lucky nature that the one in the anime had. Since HGSS's adorable Pokéwalking feature of the first Pokémon in line he has cemented himself as my absolute favorite. =D
My fave top
Totodile is best johto starter. Cyndaquil is still good though.
I think another thing to consider is how common and easily replaceable the starters are in their role. For example, fire types are a lot less common in most games compared to grass and water types which are usually incredibly common and can easily be replaced by other strong Pokémon in their respective games.
@@DailyShit. yeah, I’m most games I’ll choose the fire type over any other starter just because they are so much less common in game. In most your can get a decent water type and grass type early in but most of the time the good fire types can only be obtained much later on.
I think in most gen I played, I rarely picked the grass type starter. Cause you start anyway by encountering grass wild pkmn and they can replace it so quickly.
To make it worst, it means having another grass type in your party doesn't make sense early on with the grass starter. So you are forced to pick a fly, a bug or a normal type usually.
For the two other starters, you just can train a grass encounter and add it to your party.
I usually do my 1st playthrough of a version with the fire type, cause exactly fire encounters are so rare. And you can have Gyarados in all gen fairly early. And Gyarados is so good.
Either that or I pick the water type. Cause they are just solid through the whole game, with water moves and abilities to learn ice TMs or even ground TMs.
That is true
Yes but also no, that becomes more of a factor the later you get in the game, mainly because good Pokemon of various types and roles are hard to come by on early routes. Also, I'd argue that fire is the most replaceable type outright, since what's weak to fire is generally also weak to other common types - ice and steel are weak to fighting, while grass and bug are weak to the most common type in the franchise, flying. Early route birds can replace basically any fire type starter for most of the game, and you usually can get a fighting type before encountering any ice or steel types.
You don't really _need_ a Fire-type Pokémon on your team, though.
Offensively, Fire is SE vs Grass, Bug, Ice, Steel.
Grass, Bug and Ice are really bad defensively and can be handled by a ton of Types.
Steel is a beastly defensive Type but you can deal with it in other ways (Ground, Fighting, secondary type weaknesses like Steelix's Water weakness. Also Fairy, if that exists in the game you're playing).
**TL;DR** Fire-types are of middling utility and the things they do can usually be done as well or better by other Pokémon.
I think that the fact that Blastoise can not only be replaced but outdone by other water types kinda makes it hard to argue that it's the best choice. Yeah, in a vacuum, it's the best, but when you consider the fact that you're gonna have a full team, it's not even the best option for a water type. Gyarados, Starmie, and Slowbro are all better, and that's a problem for most water starters. Mudkip is exempt from this because it actually is the best water type option in the game.
I think Primarina is too, because the fairy type makes it unique from other water types.
Yeah that’s quite an issue with this list in general
It’s too focused on soloing or spoedrunning the games when most players actually use other Pokémon in general
Like in gen 9 there’s an option with the exact same typing for every starter (well depends on the version) though obviously different moms can only be obtained at different times
Skeledirge had the same typing as ceruledge and personally I prefer butter blade over torch song
Quaquavel could be replaced with flamigo
And meowscarada’s only replacement being brute bonnet that obviously be done before the final chapter
too be fair, every kanto starter has another pokemon that does it does but better. vileplume and victreebel can do what venosaur does, blastoise is outshined by lapras, slowbro, starmie, etc and Charizard has competition against arcanine and ninetails purely due to them being only fire and not 4x weak to rock.
Arcanine also just has better stats than Charizard.
Venusaur sucks in Gen 1. Victreebel and Exeggutor are clearly better.
If you pick Mudkip or Chimchar or even Fuecoco you can basically just shut your brain off and press A to win.
I did pick Mudkip during my only playthrough of Ruby and I hated that thing so much. It seemed you just needed to fart in its general direction and it would already keel over. That traded Makuhita did so much better in battles despite being like 10 levels lower. I love the ORAS games but thanks to that Mudkip experience from back then I never chose it as my starter during my many playthroughs until now. I recently started to play Alpha Sapphire again and for the first time I've picked Mudkip. It's okay so far but I'm still feeling sceptical. For the first time since playing the remakes I also have the traded Makuhita with me again. Just in case.
@@Grey_Warden_Invasion Fuecoco line does have a weakness of being slow, so it can still be taken out. (though admittedly it has both bulk and can potentially learn slack-off to heal up). Also it's technically competing with Ceruledge in Violet, giving it slightly less value there.
@Grey Warden Invasion maybe you either didn't level correctly or had a bad nature Mudkip
water types are usually the best starters just based on water being the best type of the primary three, but they’re so easily replaceable because there’s so many good water types. where for they fire and grass types they’re usually the best of those types available
I find it so hard to not just always pick the fire starter just because there are so many grass types, let alone water
True, but water's also effectively a must-have type. Whereas grass is only really needed if you expect to encounter water/ground types, and fire is completely replaceable with other types.
@kieranblack2443 True. And alot of fire types sadly suck as well. (Bad stats, bad movepool and/or terrible availability)
Water definitely ends up in every team composition as they usually can learn a good amount of different elemental moves (or just having ice is enough often too) as well as providing surf-utility. (Nobody will toss out the surfer of the team every city)
As for Plant types. They sadly have so many weaknesses, that it's often even hard to justify taking one with you.
The other thing about the other two types though is how they are often unnecessary anyways. Especially fire is usually never really needed as grass, bug and ice are easy enough to cover and since ground moves are fairly common, steel often isn't an issue either. Water and Ice together essentially already cover the game, and with your starter usually always being the highest level water type available at any given time (with exceptions like Sapphire and Pearl after catching the cover legendary), it makes sense why it's usually the best choice for a playthrough.
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 I like having a fire type on the team, but usually their coverage is terrible or locked behind breeding/difficult to get tms. Steel types usually have a secondary type to abuse as well. While water is definitely the easiest to replace type, it's also usually the most useful one.
In a vacuum, always pick water starter.
If you’re going to actually catch mons, pick fire. Water is one of (if not) the most populous types. Gyarados is almost always a solid option for your water Mon needs in every gen and can be used extremely early. Grass types are typically mid and relatively abundant whereas fire types are comparatively rare with good usage.
If you’re playing competitive multiplayer, ignore everything and check the meta.
Gyarados is kind of a Win button honestly, From Gen 4 onwards at least
You can't really count LGPE for the Gen I starters, though; the starters in those games are Pikachu and Eevee.
Yeah, I was a little disappointed that the buffed partner Pikachu and Eevee weren't explored in depth. I feel of the two, Eevee would win since it has access to a lot of better move tutor moves Pikachu just can't get. So not only does it have better type coverage, but the secondary effects of those moves are pretty great too (e.g. setting up screens, causing status effects, etc.).
@@mjangelvortex Exactly.
I just pick the ones I like the most
I go even further in gen 1. I just use a glitch to get all 3.
I just pick the fire type.
Feraligatr has long been one of my favorite Pokemon and I just recently started playing Violet with Fuecoco as my starter. Gotta love them bitey bois. 🐊🐊
Now we need a grass type crocodilian starter in gen 10 so we can round out the gator gang 😎
@@SerDerpish good idea
Good video but I would've enjoyed seeing more consistent point breakdowns (some gens show all final scores, some show only one final score, some show no final scores) as well as seeing all the final rankings together, plus your final thoughts. Personally I think it's a shame grass starters are so oppressed, especially my boy Decidueye.
More consistency overall would've been great.
Like the gen 1 A LOT of the wins Charmander gets in the video are the fact its evolution line learns two broken moves, Dig with 100 base power before the 3rd gym and 140 bp Slash.
Then in the gen 3 remakes, the video stated "They're about the same, but Charizard gets marginal buffs to make it better in the early game" despite Dig being nerfed down to 60 damage and Slash's crit being nerfed making it worse than Body Slam which all 3 starters get.
The video starts with the "I'm tired of seeing arguments with baseless opinions, let's do objective scores" then devolves into the same kind of argument.
@@afsdfsadhasfhbut it did get early game buffs in Metal Claw, Mega Kick, Rock Slide and a much earlier Flamethrower, as well as Sunny Day later on to take away its bad water matchup, so overall its buffs outweigh its nerfs to the point where in gen3 Charizard is almost as good Blastoise.
Also in the remakes Bodyslam has been moved to the postgame.
Decidueye isn't so bad. It's just the ghost typing that screws it over.
Totodile will always be my fav starter. It's crazy that grass is never the best, however sprigatito won me over as my first grass starter I've chosen and I'm very happy with it. ❤️
you know that battle with her outside the alfornada gym where she start with lycanrok? i was able to sweep her with hone claws set up because she kept lowering my accuracy with sand attack instead of attacking.
I picked sprigatito because I love cats but I love them all! Spriggy just stole my heart. You can’t look at that grass cat and not consider it for one second! I loved it. Meowscarada is SO OP! Meowscarada also has so many world records! I’m not saying I disagree here but I think sprigatito is just a little better than Fuecoco. Maybe it’s not the best for the first gym but.. wild Pokémon exist!
@@Flowey-Yourbestfriend Meowscarada has blown my mind, Flower Trick is broken
Meowscarada is cool
There are 34 reasons Meowscarada is the best Gen 9 starter.
Edit: I just thought of 621 more.
i absolutely love totodile, and for the longest time it was my absolute favorite starter ever, and it probably still is because i haven't really thought about my favorite starters in a while. Bare minimum my favorite Water-type starter, at least.
Skeledirge going solo against the champion is very relatable. Mostly if you use it with throat spray is a total win
throat spray???? it's torch song my dude throat spray sounds like violent spitting (it could be a gross but good water, bug, or poison type - most likely poison)
@@_oceanace if you use torch song with the item throat spray u get an additional sp atk boost
@@camiloospina9323 yo what? that's awesome my bad - still could make a move like that. sorry I was rude in my last comment, but that's an awesome fact!
a modest skeledirge with a throat spray is op. using torch song, shadow ball, will-o-wisp and fire spin its easily the best starter in paldea.
I'd love to see the final scores of all the starters. See how they all compared to each others performance within their respective games
Then watch the video again and write it down. So you can have an aerial of all that data
@@garretreed9709He doesn't provide all the scores.
I heavily enjoyed how you based the points not solely on type matchups like what so many other poketubers do. I am, however, a bit disappointed that it seems you were only basing this on just the gyms and elite 4 and not a heavy emphasis on other important battles, i.e. the evil teams. Still a good video.
He briefly brought up Team Aqua and Team Flare but for the most part, he didn't seem to bring up the others.
The Scorbunny is still the best as far as the Galar region is concerned. Those Steel Types don't really have much of a chance.
I can’t remember the teams exactly but for the evil team leaders here is what would change. also I am gonna use the types because I can’t spell
Gen 1 water becomes better the other two become worse
Gen 2 I can’t remember
Gen 3 mudkip and grass becomes better
Gen 4 water becomes better the other grass becomes way
Gen 9 grass becomes worse
I am just gonna do the first 4 and gen 9
@@mjangelvortex Nope Scorbunny so bad
It's not so much the other important battles. If you've seen ScottsThoughts' videos, you'll see that sometimes pretty random trainers can proof a significant challenge to a Pokémon. Those mandatory fights should be included as well, because getting stuck along the way is a major frustration point for the player. For Gen 2 for example the Spearow trainer in Falkner's gym is normally a worse opponent than Falkner himself. Which would make Chikorita even worse. Poor thing.
@@RocketJo86 In my opinion, the Bird Keeper in Falkner's gym that uses a Level 9 Spearow is challenging for all three Johto starters, not just Chikorita, unless your starter is a few levels higher than the Spearow. Spearow's Peck is strong at the beginning of the game. The Kanto games have something similar: The Route 3 Youngster that uses a Level 14 Spearow is challenging unless you ignore him for awhile and battle him later.
About the Hoenn starters:
Treecko isn't good as a counter to Water Types. You illustrated its lacking in the champion battle well, but on the water routes, the ONLY Pokemon you find by Surfing on most routes are Tentacool, Wingull, and Pelipper.
They are a low enough level at that point that they don't give you trouble, but if you're choosing Treecko and expecting to have a late-game advantage, you're out of luck because that advantage isn't there.
For Water Types more broadly, the Ludicolo line, Pelipper line, Gyarados, Tentacruel line, Kingdra, make up 9/42 Water Types in Hoenn, but Lombre, Pelipper, Tentacool, and Gyarados make up a disproportionately larger scale of trainer battles. Just try to think of how many trainers use the Swampert line, Whiscash line, or Corsola/Relicanth which could be one-shot by Sceptile.
Torchic has a better move-pool than you give it credit for. I've solo-ran it more than once and the combination of Normal, Fire, and Fighting moves with Aerial Ace gives it more than sufficient neutral to Super-Effective damage.
It destroys Roxanne, fares evenly with Brawly, destroys Watson, fares evenly with Flannery, destroys Norman (with Fighting moves and the Dig TM to abuse Truant), and by the time the first 5 gyms are out of the way, it's levelled up enough and packs enough of a punch that the rest don't matter. It does fare a bit worse in the Elite Four than it did in Ruby/Sapphire, so it is significantly throttled by the late game.
My boyfriend is an old Pokemon person, while the first game I played was pokemon Shield.
He watched me and my younger brother play it for a little sometimes, and when he watched my brother picking his starter he said that in the older games it was better, because the games wouldn't go so easy on you to just hand your rival the weaker starter type to your own. It made you struggle just a little bit.
At first I agreed with him, but watching this video, I remembered what happens to the third starter: Leon takes it, so in the championship battle, he can kick your ass with it and hand it to you whole.
In my first run I picked Scorbunny, so that gave Sobble to Leon, and even though I came to the battle properly leveled, Inteleon absolutely SWEEPED through my team with babydoll eyes and snipe shots. It was a straight up MASSACRE and since I didn't have any more revives, I finished the battle with 2 very bruised and battered pokemon. That Inteleon was a literal BEAST.
💀
the traction this channel is gaining is awesome and super satisfying to see!
I feel like another ranking should exist with viability in a diverse team, comparing starters with other Pokémon of type coverage. How well they fit as a group, not how they do as a speedrun/solo Pokémon
That ranking would show just how replaceable most water type starters are
@@johnwatsoniv384 🤣
@@johnwatsoniv384 it depends.
For Kanto Blastoise is not the best water mon to bring in the mid-late game: Lapras or other Water-Ice mons are better since, with the exception of Blaine, the Ice type doesn't change the defensive interactions, and they have STAB ice moves, and Gyarados is better on using all the physical coverage moves the video gives to Blastoise.
Similar for Jotho
But for Hoenn? The Water-Ground STAB combination plus coverage ice beam is unmatched by any other water mon. (Whiscash is only a weaker version and comes later, missing many positive matches)
Also i think that Primarina is hard to replace...
For solo runs in Kanto, by example, Blastoise is only slightly faster than Venusaur, but Venusaur has an easier time breking through walls, thanks to Sleep Powder being BUSTED in gen 1, and learning it quite soon in gen 3. In Gen 1, thanks to the badge boost glitch, Agatha is the only problem Venusaur is going to face in the League, the rest of them are easy pickings, either being easily sweeped, or having an easy pokemon to set up things like Swords Dance or Growth before going to town with the rest of the team.
For speedruns, I couldn't say, but there are solid water types besides Blastoise (some of them are actually quite better and one of those is a guaranteed pick, Lapras), but no Grass type is better than Venusaur. Fire types aren't that good for use in Kanto, though, Charizard may be the best for the adventure, but when you really want to use type advantage with a fire type, you get access to Flareon, Growlithe and Vulpix.
@@lenlimbo i never try a speedrun, but I could see why squirtle is better for those: i agree with you with Venusaur being best for a playthrough (better earlier matchups, no other grass types have both the same stats and movepool, while blastoise is easier to replace, he still perform well in the 8th gym and E4), but it needs always additional turn(s) for setting up, to make the opponent sleep, or to KO them slowly with poison and leech seed, all reliable but not quick tactics.
On the other side Blastoise-line have access to more direct powerfull attacks, being better to try to KO the opponent quicker. (Charizard would be even better in terms of speed, but it's walled by the first 2 gyms, making it not a safe and ideal choice)
A ranking that assigns arbitrary points, don't take into account some acquirable moves (In Jotho in Goldenrod casino you can acquire Fire Punch or Fire Blast, so the fact that the Cyndaquil line is stuck with ember for long is fake) , not consider enough how easy is to replace a starter with other similar types (All the good mid-late matchups for Blastoise are best handled by Gyarados or Lapras, so Blastoise is better only for speedrunner so they don't spend time in catching and evolving new mons, and also Feraligatr in Jotho is easy replaceble to other water mons for the late game, mainly again Lapras or Gyarados) take into account coverage moves only for some, on similar matchups give more to some mons and less to other, don't take into account some other fixed storyline figths (for example evil team or rivals).
it seems that what makes water starters dominate is the fact that like most water types, they can learn ice moves, but with the addition to also learn a very good 3rd type move, or even 4th to give them an amazing coverage
I was so surprised that Torterra have more attack than Infernape!
I recently found your channel and love all the videos! I would love to see you do a whole ranking of all the games, like difficulty, story, and rivals and so on
I am new to the channel, and am LOVING your content! Good stuff! I think its hard to move away from Cyndaquil and Torchic just because grass and certainly water types are more common. I thrashed Lance with an ice-punch Poliwhirl (not Poliwrath, no stone until going back to Kanto) in gen 2. Just my 2 cents, but I enjoyed this ranking system!
In Crystal and hgss you can get a water stone before Kanto from Tully (I don’t remember their trainer class but they’re on the route east of Mahogany Town). If it’s Gold or Silver that you were playing you were indeed screwed though
awesome depth study on what each starters are best!
for gen 9, out of the three starters i chose quaxly because i personally love them (not saying not liking quaxly is wrong tho). the dex entry for quaxly just made me think of the lil duck becoming more confident.
confidence shows in last form a lot because of THE DANCING which, it tells me quaxly has a lot of personality and i love expressive animations for pokemon.
the starters give off a vibe of a confident duck,
a sweet and sour cat
and a caring but also strong crocodile
I wish there was a comparison between Eevee and pikachu for let’s go rather than the “gift Pokémon” the original starters become.
I know right? they aren't even the starters for that remake
I agree. I think Eevee takes it, but that's just a guess. Both Pikachu and Eevee get some very solid moves.
They both get Double Kick early to sweep Brock (maybe Eevee does better here).
Pika is better against Misty
Eevee is better against Surge
Probably a tie against Erika (leaning Eevee)
Koga might be a tie, but I think Eevee can learn a Psychic type move
Eevee can learn bite/crunch which dominates Sabrina
Tie against Blaine
Eevee probably does better against Giovanni
Elite 4: Pika wins Lorelei, Pika probably does better against Bruno, Eevee does better against Agatha, Pika handles Lance, but struggles against Aerodactyl. Eevee does better in rival fight, I think.
Tbh its probably eevee bc of the whopping 8 insanely powerful coverage moves
Eevee is superior over Pikachu. Look at Yellow and Let's Go for prime example.
@@A-squared Eevee has a signature move for every type it could evolve (all with 90 base power and an additional secondary effect) to if it wasn't a special starter. Whereas the only notable move of Pikachu is zippy zap, a 50 base power move that has priority and crit and good against anything that doesn't resist elec since it would pretty much wreck everything else.
Awesome video, but I feel like you ran out of time towards the end - I would’ve loved to hear you take more time to explain and score the later gen starters because your analysis is excellent! Earned my sub for sure :)
Dude I haven’t seen one of your videos since the z house days glad to see you still doing UA-cam these days
For me it often comes down to how does the fire/water/grass starter compare to the wild fire/water/grass types that you can find along the way. This is why I rank most water types last because you normally get a great selection of them along the journey. I will forever rank Mudkip the best of Gen 3 though because I love him and Swampert so damn much (also you kinda need 2 water types with all the water based HMs in that game).
Those other water types are often extremely underleveled though, so a leveled and ev'd water starter will generally perform better than any other water type you'll obtain later on.
YES. RESPECT FOR THE TURTLES. FINALLY SOMEONE GIVES BLASTOISE SOME LOVE
AGGREE
Blastoise is so good in the game... The only problem is that as mentioned you can fill his role (Starmie as an offensive and Lapras as defensive) while if you want to fill Venosuaur you have to get Bellsprout or Eggxegutor (I'm sure that's not the name) and need to get a Leaf Stone to evolve them... Not to mention level the last one is annoying... I tried... Bellsprout is decent but is a worse Venosuaur and Eggxegute takes a lot of time to train...
Blastoise is beast in Gen I. JRose's solo Blastoise run was god tier.
IKR I LOVE BLASTOISE
blastoise is good in normal games but in never games it has narrow movepool
The interesting part here is how good the balance of the games got over time. For all generations except 9 I always took the grass starter first. As a child I reset my Red, because Venausur just didn't handle Lance well. Chikorita, Treeko and Torterra were all cast out of the team once I found a sixth mon in the wild because they were SO BAD. FireRed and HeartGold were easily or at least playable with Bulbasaur and Chikorita. But once BW rolled around, I had a pretty easy time with every grass starter I took. Serperior, Chesnaught, Rowlet were all pretty usable and stayed in my team throughout the playthrough. So did Torterra in Brilliant Diamond. I did choose to not train Rillaboom after it's final evolution in Sword, but just because it was a monotype and I didn't want monotypes on my team back then. In Scarlet I took the cat for my second playthrough and it was great, too. Just not as useful as my great Jalapeno ^^
But yeah, I overall got better, but the balance of the games overall made it easier to keep your starter around for the whole playthrough, even if it's not the best fit.
Crystal was my first game and Totodile was my first starter. As many times as I have replayed gen 2 I'm well aware of the Totodile lines' awesomeness. All three of that line are tied for my favorite Pokemon ever.
The sad thing about most of the grass starters is that you get better options fairly early. While Venasaur, Torterra, and Decidueye don't get outclassed really, with typings that are fairly advantageous for those games, the rest easily do. You get Bellsprout in GSC before the first gym and getting a Leaf Stone in Crystal and HGSS is annoying but easy to do, and though Bellossom isn't trash and you can have one in GS before Morty, pure grass is just not good and actually might be a downgrade from Gloom, though it's still better than Meganium with a good support movepool of the Powders and Petal Dance. Breloom's fighting typing and Spore help in the gyms that Sceptile would struggle. In Gen 5, Lilligant gets Quiver Dance + Petal Dance + Own Tempo, making type matchup mostly irrelevant once you've set up, and even though it is technically a version exclusive, there's an in-game trade fairly early in Black and Black2 for one. Chesnaught is outclassed by all the grass-types in Kalos, especially Venasaur since poison is really good with all the fairies, though if you want a different Kanto starter, Victreebel and Vileplume are just worse Venasaur. Unfortunately, I haven't played SnS or SV, so I can't really do comparisons for them.
Rillaboom is a fucking beast (specially with it's hidden ability, but that's not something you usually gets access in the adventure, I just used one with that in a playthrough, to see how it changes things and oh boy, does it), and Meowscarada is the strongest (but not necesarily the best at the adventure) of the three Paldean starters. That cat can shred anything into pieces before they can touch it, and that's without Protean. If you get Protean with an ability patch... oh boy, does it destroys ANYTHING it its path.
It's similar to Greninja, to mention one pokemon you may have used, but going full physical, instead of being a mixed attacker, and without the need for late/post game tutors for getting good coverage. It is very similar to Cinderace. No surprise here, with Cinderace being yet another protean user. In a fangame, I got to use those three with Protean, and they alone covered ANY pokemon I meet with super effective moves xD. That's twelve STABs covered with just three pokemon XD
That said, Smith forgot about half the game in SV. If you only focus on the Victory Road (Gyms and Elite 4), then yes, Skeledirge is probably the best. But if you take into account the Path of Legends and the Starfall Street, it's not quite as dominant. Also, Meowscarada it's not only an aggresive and fast sweeper, it has access to good pivoting moves for free damage before letting a more fitting pokemon into the battle, and has a great coverage, including Play Rough to scare or take down dark, dragon and fighting types. And the stats to use them.
Skeledirge has a great combo available since almost the beggining, though. Spray throat + it's signature move. A free +2 special attack at the beggining of any fight, and you don't need to buy one spray throat every time you use it, unlike older games.
My only complain with the crocodile is that there are other great fire types in the game. And even great Fire/GHOST types, too, with an insane signature move (Ceruledge is my favorite fire type in Paldea XD). Same with water types and even Water/fighting types, with Quaquaval. But no grass type matches Meowscarada. Not even close.
Chadstoise, Feralichad and Sigmpert 🗿
more like BlastAIDS. and SwampHerpes
You get AIDS and STDs if you're a chad because of all the Hoes
#ASEXUALSUPREMACY
#EVERYONEASKED
Funny enough, I've played solo runs with the water starters in Gen's 1-3. It's crazy how good all three of them are
They're stats and movepool
so basically, if you're bad at the game, go water starter
That's like saying "if you're bad at the game, use Flamethrower instead of Ember and Water Gun instead of Surf".
So in short if I remember correctly, 1. Squirtle 2. Bulbasaur 3. Charmander then 1. Totodile 2. Cyndaquill 3. Chikorita then 1. Mudkip 2. Torchic 3. Treecko then 1. Chimchar 2. Piplup 3. Turtwig then 1. Oshawott 2. Tepig 3. Snivy then 1. Froakie 2. Fennekin 3. Chespin then 1. Poplio 2. Rowlet 3. Litten then 1. Scorbunny 2. Sobble 3. Grooky then 1. Fuecoco 2. Sprigatito 3. Quaxly (I’ll edit it later so it’ll be right when u see it)
A lot of water types, 6/9 are water, and only 1 is grass
@@andormak8402 Correction: 6/9 are water, 3/9 are fire (Chimchar, Scorbunny, Fuecoco) and 0/9 are grass.
@@guilhermerenna yeah, I just noticed I mixed up Fuecoco and Sprigatito. Haven't played SV yet, probably that's why
Since Pokémon doesn’t give you any fire options outside of the 3 starters, you’re forced to pick a fire Pokémon. Unless you’re happy waiting 40 hours into gameplay.
In some games yes. You can pick up growlithe pretty early in crystal and fletchling right on the starting path in x/y.
I always find only looking at gym leaders really flawed (especially in gen 9 where there are so many more badges to get...)
Water and grass types are usually easily replacable as both types are very, very common - and overlap in strength a bit so such catching a good water type can easily replace the water starter and most of the grass starter. So fire has a leg up in most games.
And you are also not only fighting gym leaders; Kanto for example is filled with trainers using poison and flying types, making Venosaur quite a lot worse in an actual playthrough.
naw gen 1 venusaur is busted where poison and flying types have literally 0 good moves. Fire types are actually completely garbage in gen 1 and not worth using.
Venusaur goes neutral against poison and has a immunity to getting poisoned making it better against poison types compared to the other starters. Also flying types are not even common in Gen 1 besides legendarys the only pokemon you have to worry about is Pidgeot and Fearow who can easily be countered by tons of other mons.
Gen 9 in particular gets quite a disservice from this arrangement since each starter was designed for each route (its even in the trailers)
Sprigatitto was designed for the titans, quackey was designed for team star and fuecoco was designed for the gyms
Another thing that needs to be mentioned is that Infernape can also know Earthquake, giving it a pretty good advantage to Volkner and Flint due to how fast it is.
Can you get earthquake before fighting Volkner?
@@nick_995 Yep. You can find it in Wayward Cave.
Ans thunder punch
to me it's simple. i like grass starters the most, always have and i think that's the most important part. nice vid!
Im sad about Chespin, I used him in my first playthrough of Y all because I knew people hated him and wanted to go against what people thought. I will agree that that Chespin is TERRIBLE trying to solo the game, but when you use other pokemon to make up for Chespin and its evo's weaknesses its actually great! I used Charizard, Tyrantrum, Malimar, Dragalge, and Sylveon alongside Chesnaught so I had many pokemon to make up for Chesnaught's weaknesses. Because of that playthrough Chespin will always hold a special place in my heart.
Delphox almost getting a W
But the cruel hand dealt by the universe said "lmao"
Typhlosion isn't overrated. It's really that good.
You can get dig as early as National Park, giving you early ground coverage and a way to cheese Whitney's Miltank.
It can also learn thunderpunch, which gives Ty way more utility than you give them credit for. Electric coverage gives them advantage on like half the E4.
Oh, Feraligatr gets EQ? So does Ty.
Flamethrower too steep at lv60? You can buy it or Fire Blast at the Game Corner, or if you're cheap, Fire Punch is an option too.
There’s also plenty of water types that are better than Feraligatr in Gen 2. Lapras is notable but I’ve even found Golduck of all Pokémon to work better; its slightly higher speed and significantly higher special attack has given me much better results than Feraligatr. Water types don’t even has a super effective matchup until Jasmine’s Steelix or Pryce’s Piloswine so you aren’t missing much by waiting until Bugsy to get Psyduck.
I think he undervalued how easily you can get better water types in both red and blue and Gsc. I agree 100% Typhlosion is not over rated.
Water and grass are almost always easy to replace. In gen 1 you could have a gyarados on leaving Mt. Moon and weepinbel/gloom for misty. And gen 2 has so many early water types with the old rod change
totodile not learning waterfall in gen 2 will forever upset me
Maybe both can get EQ, but water is also a better defensive typing then fire. Also you shouldn't have to grind at the game corner to get a competent moveset.
@@RobotGuy405 fire is a better type in Johto, there are plenty of other water types (some of whom perform better than Feraligatr) and you don’t need to grind at the Game Corner for Typhlosion.
New title for the video: I Hope You Like WATER Pokémon!
Another point in Skeledirge's favor is that Fuecoco is the most adorable lil' guy ever put to paper.
One thing worth mentioning is that picking Charizard in the gen 3 remake mean your rival have Blastoise with a really trash moveset as oppose to Venasaur or Charizrd which is quite scarier
What i learned: just use Water types lol
(Also, If this is all Pokemon games, where are the spin offs?
broooooooo i clicked on this video for some pokemon content, then BOOM!!! its my fav zombies youtuber. Great content bro. Also Turtwig the best starter hands down
I love how this video started out with arbitrary numbers and explaining what each starter's merits were, and just devolved into "Yeah so I think we can all agree that, after looking at nothing, wins here"
Im so happy Feraligatr finally got the credit it deserves! its been my favourite since i first opened gold when i was little
I always hear about Bite, Ice Punch, and other moves for Feraligatr depending on if it is GSC or HGSS but I looked at other moves Feraligatr can learn that most players don't use. I played Soul Silver in late 2021 with Feraligatr and I leveled him up until he learned Superpower to make Red easier. Steelix's Stealth Rock and Tyranitar's Sand Stream also helped. I have never tried it before but Feraligatr can learn Iron Tail for Will's Jynx. I want to try this in Gen 2.
I always get the Fire ones, just because it has become one of my "traditions". Just as much as I usually got a female Nidoran I nickname Nicki and I also usually end up with at least one of my gen 1 Favs on the team😅
Don't you just love those traditions tho? I love my tradition of naming any Gulpins "Chug" just because of my friend suggesting it in my first playthrough of Ruby
in most pokemon games the fire starter is great because it nearly always has the first area to be flooded with grass types to catch and gain EXP.
It’s also the rarest type, and is often fast and dual-typed
Liked the concept of a "points system" and immediately took to calling the bulbasaur with glasses Professor Bulbasaur. 😁
I like how this video just confirms how I always felt: the water starters are always just outclassing everyone
Yes sir!
Or ma’am
So sorry
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Actual 14 year old in the replies
I will maybe use this information for nuzlockes, but I think I prefer to choose by how they look. Seriously, how they look is what makes the series even appeal to me.
Same I would definitely pick (and have picked) each of these winners for a nuzlocke but have other preferences
I did not know this guy played pokemon but i love it. I clicked this video` and was like... OH NIFTY SMITH!
If you evolve Chimchar into Monferno on the first Gym you should have done the same for Charmander and evolved him into Charmeleon and give him Dragon Rage, if there’s something I’m missing tell me.
Why? Charmander doesn't need to evolve to beat Brock. Also it gets Dragon Rage extremely late.
Chespin was mvp my early game. It swept viola with rollout. Helps against Grunt's tyrunt. It cleaned a lot of route trainers. I had set of grass stab plus bulldoze. It does fall late.
Skeledurge is so unbelievably broken in scarlet and violet torch song just plows through everything and with a choice scarf it fixes the speed issue
In competitive Meowscarada outclasses Skel by miles tho
@@what.are.you.doing.stepbroShut up about your Furry Cat, we’re talking base game.
But competitive nonsense.
@@D.W.M.T.Y.A.W._CheckAbout_ lmao ok kid. Who tf struggles to beat the easy as game anyway
@@D.W.M.T.Y.A.W._CheckAbout_ Greater than skeledirge.
@@chiragmakhija1179 Then why is it so mid early game
i’ve been replaying pokémon and i can’t believe i randomly found this dude again after being obsessed with COD zombies so many years ago😭😭
Just because of P5 soundtrack you sir deserve a follow.
The sad part is if Meganium had access to sleep powder through level up it would have a method for dealing with Will's psychics by spamming Fury Cutter. Though the main utility of Meganium is to be a defensive pivot that can provide screen support. The problem is that isn't a particularly useful skill set to your casual player.
I suppose if I do another mono grass run I'll have to see how it fairs at helping other monsters setup.
I think the Chikorita line is the only starter that benefits from not fully evolving it. For the role you've said, I'd be tempted to say Bayleef holding Eviolite is better than Meganium.
My little mouth breather of a crock had the glow up and became one of if not the best starters for a play through ever, so proud of him and his one brain cell
The best starter of all is clearly Swampert.
I definitely agree 👍
Sprigatito: I won't back down!!! You're just fighting for your own sake, while I... I fight for all the injustice grass type has to endure! Chikorita, Serpivine... Chespin! This generation marks the rise of the grass type!!!
Skeledirg: zoink
Feraligatr supremacy
35:04 damn I didn’t know we could use the incineroar in gen 4😂
playing an absolute banger to start off the video
I like how in the intro, the only argument for Charmander is "I'm 12".
It may not do much offensively, sure, but in recent years I’ve become a much stronger advocate for Chikorita in the Gen 2 versions of Johto in particular due to a few reasons. Sleep Powder is still OP in Gen 2 (opponents only have a 10% chance per turn to wake up), and prior to actually fully evolving, I would argue Bayleef’s defenses make it a more useful non-fully-evolved Pokémon than Qwilava is.
Plus, while Grass loses against many types, the types it does win against are some great winning matchups to have such as Water, Electric, and Ground. This is great given how Johto’s story doesn’t just consist of the Johto region, as Typhlosion’s Fire typing falls off a cliff in Kanto, with ThunderPunch only doing so much against anything not named Gyarados to help its case.
EDIT: Whitney’s Miltank also doesn’t have its Lum Berry in the Gen 2 games, and it’s not weak to Rollout, meaning Bayleef also beats Qwilava in a very important weighted matchups.
The Meganium line has never been able to learn Sleep Powder. Also, Typhlosion learns Earthquake which definitely helps with its Kanto viability.
@@yorecf9641 Am I thinking of Stun Spore, then? I could have sworn this thing learned it.
@@bdt2002gaming they’ve never had Stun Spore either. You’re probably thinking of Poison Powder.
Not only does Chikorita not learn Sleep Powder, but that's just not how sleep works either.
Gen 1 RB - Bulbasaur, because there are water pokemon that are miles better.
Gen 2 GSC - Cyndquil, because of how bad the selection of fire pokemon out there but is one of the most useful types in the region, and totodile doesn't learn Waterfall.
Gen 3 RSE - Swampert, not even a contest. + your blazikent only did good against the champion because you overleveled your team, when you fight without leveling in the wild for the league it gets descimated with earthquakes.
Gen 3 FRLG - Charizard, 2 things: takes the slot of your flyer so you can use 1 more pokemon of a better type, 2 dragon claw is special.
Did my boy Totodile and his evolutions justice. Love to see it
As someone who chooses the water type starter, EVERY SINGLE TIME REGARDLESS OF HOW GOOD, I was pleasantly surprised by 6/9 of water starters being the best. (Nice by the way.)
I'm the same, it's a compulsion at this point 🤣
Yeah but he is wrong in 2
The ranking just shows that water is really op compared to the other types. Fire is also good coming in second a lot and sometimes getting third. But grass is just the worst of the three most of the time.
Though for gen 3 kanto games gyarados is very easy to get because of the daycare get it to level 19 use a rare candy get bite beat Misty and a free lapras later on or you can also use a vaporeon.
instant disagree on the system for gen 1, the fact that blastoise is easily replaced by other (better) water types is far more important than you gave it credit for. Charmander deserved more points for being one of the few fire types and the best non legendary fire type in the game. Also poison types are like some of the most abundant types in gen 1 and can do all the glitch stuff bulbasaur does but I think bulba deserves points for lack of grass type options
Yeah Gyarados is incredibly easy to obtain and probably does almost as good as Blastoise in most of the battles. Wouldn't really wanna use a Vileplume or Victreebel instead of Venusaur.
@@Soonshain why would you even want to use any pokemon that isn't your starter to begin with?
Just basing it on type matchups is mistake too, Charizard can easily sweep with Swords Dance + Slash/Earthquake and Venusaur has chance to beat anything with Sleep Powder.
@@doctorcheese107 let me just tell you this, squirtle got the fastest time amongst all 3 in the world speedrun record. Type Matchup matters A LOT. Sleep powder has a chance to miss and if it did miss, venu would just get wiped out by type disadvantage. Charizard with swords dance? What's he even gonna sweep? Not only that he'll waste so many pp because he used swords dance instead of damaging moves, he'll only obtain that later on which still doesn't solve the problem of him facing his type disadvantage. Furthermore he can be killed by his type disadvantage when he's still setting up. Why even bother setting up when you can just one shot with type advantage anyway?
I see your point but other than resistance to Erika, Charizards fire typing is actually a detriment. He doesnt learn any good fire moves until about blaine by which time you could have a Magmar Ninetails, Rapidash or Arcanine.
Typically Charmander line in gen 1 performs incredibly well despite its typing instead of because of it.
Awesome video and great balance to the ratings! Overall I think your rating system was OUTSTANDING!!
I’m sure some people will disagree, and I would have one note that you might want to weigh in with more. I think weighing how available the typing of your starter is at the necessary points in the game and how good is that starter compared to its type alternatives at that time and throughout the game. For example, one reason I never saw a need to even worry about getting Bulbasaur in Gen 1 (or a remake) is that he’s not significantly better than the other grass types you get access to (Oddish line or Bellsprout line) by the time you need a grass type. With Squirtle however, you cannot get a viable water type until maybe… Poliwag (assuming you think Poliwag is viable at all) sometime after/around Misty and the Poliwag line is nowhere near as good as the Squirtle line. And the Charmander line is arguably the best fire line in the game, maybe Arcanine can compete in certain remakes. I’m not sure this would change your conclusions, but it might narrow some of the more MASSIVE gaps.
Could you please post a link to a chart with the final scoring of each Pokémon in their respective games? I’d like to see which starters did the best across all the generations if possible. Which grass earned the most points on this scoring system, which fire, etc. that I way I’d know. If I want to have a favorite Grass type starter of all time, did it score better than the others.
Thanks for making this, it was REALLY entertaining!
I felt what you said about Blastoise... It IS the most consistent of the three, but because there's so many Water types I want to use, I never actually end up picking it. That holds true for most generations actually - I often pick my starter based on what other mons I plan to use and Water usually has a whole bunch of candidates. I was a Charizard kid and ended up picking Fire throughout most generations, both because Fire=awesome and because there just aren't many easily available Fire types in most regions, Gen4 being the worst about it.
One thing that always makes me wonder about starter tierings is that they usually value sweeping potential/effectiveness VERY high. Grass types inherently are more about status (with some exceptions, like Sceptile and Torterra) and support, which is pretty noticeable in multiple starters (later gen Venusaur with powders and leech seed, Meganium with Reflect, Chesnaught and Serperior with Leech Seed and screens/shield moves and defensive stats...). Nowadays, I often end up picking Grass because of its potential for team synergy even in disadvantageous scenarios and it usually proves quite effective. I'm not sure how you'd effectively quantify alternate playstyles though.
15:24 " Sceptile and Swampert bring a lot on the table but not that much" Swampert literally Earthquake everyone :
I'm going to disagree on the chespin point there( don't worry I respect your opinion) but it depends on how you train your pokemon, stats, moves, etc. Chesnaught is really not that bad if you pay attention to what your pokemon can learn. Chesnaught in my opinion has really great cover moves he can learn rollout as chespin to take care of Viola's pokemon. Not only that, it depends on if it's a physical attacker or a special attacker to determine the move. Also can learn gyro ball for those pesky fairy types, can learn earthquake for those fire types. But if you really want to troll flying types you can get stone edge for that increased critical which yes I know the accuracy BUT what you can also do is keep rollout. Rollout increases damage with every hit. It's signature move should be a keeper people tend to overlook how broken spiky shield actually is especially in competitive. I was demolishing opponents with chesnaught using the right moves and the right strategies. This is just from my personal experiences and opinions please don't attack me. ☺️
What i'm hearing is "If you are a tough trainer who likes a challenge, pick a grass starter. If you are a weak trainer who can't think for yourself, go water" ;)
I agree that Fera is the best gen 2 starter, but I feel you undersold Typhlosion. It struggles a bit during it's first two stages, but once it is fully evoled, it can get access to both fire and thunder punch. Couple that with it's decent special attack and defence, and you got an excellent mix attacker for the late game
Typhlosion would easily take the first slot if it wasn't learning Flamethrower on level 60, because that is what truly keeps it down. Feraligatr has a much lower special attack, but because Surf is so much stronger than Fire Punch and you get it so extremely early, it still outdamages it on neutral hits.
In the remakes it gets Fire Blast after the second badge and things completely change.
one think worth looking, if by any chance you decide to remake this video in the future, is how replacable every starter is. in gen one games for example, fire types are REALY rare, and charizard is one of the best fire types around, the other choices being ninetales, arcanine, rapidash, flareon and magmar, being only comparable with moltress which is a legendary, and so is avoided by some people for this reason. venusaur, while not the best grass type, being outclassed by exeggutor (and vileplume if im not mistaken), helps a lot in early game, where your choices are limited. blastoise while the best in a solo run and versatile in most of the battles, reason being the choice for speedruns, is very easy to be replaced, even if you start with it. whater types are the most abundant type in every game, and when you have choises like starmie (thunder bold, ice beam, surf, recover), gyarados (a monster), tentacruel (very high special due to how gen 1 sp def and spa work as the same stat), and slowbro (high coverage and gen 1 amnesia raising it`s spdef and spa by two stages), blasatoise gets easly outclassed by these choices. while you can run pokemons with the same type on a team, if you are going for the best team blastoise takes a very important role on the team with a not so eficient pokemon. overall the video is very good and the information on it is very helpfull for someone thinking about doing pokemon speedruns
The issue with Blastoise replacements in Kanto is that every water type you get either has worse stats (like Polywrath or Seaking), a worse movepool (Vaporeon not getting any ground moves) or is obtained so underleveled that it takes you serious commitment just to make them usable (Lapras and Staryu being late game level 15 mons for example). For example you only get Lapras after freeing Silph., and the level 43 Blastoise you can have at this point can reach the Hall of Fame in 30 minutes at this point. 30 Minutes is also about how long it would take to get that Lapras to level 40+, so even if you're not speedrunning, there's a clear issue with Lapras being so low leveled.
If you're really commited to leveling your water type, you could also spend those 30 minutes you'd need to get Lapras to level 40+ on Blastoise instead to get it up to level 60+ and stomp the entire game even more.
And honestly Gyarados is the worst offender. Its special is awful so its water and ice moves will deal way less damage than those of Blastoise, it lacks ground moves in gen1 so it has a lot less favorable matchups against important battles and ultimately it is obtained as a Magikarp on level 5 and lacks moves to level on its own for 10 more levels, so it takes way too long to become useable too.
While it doesn't save her, Bayleaf is actually really good on Whitney because of it's bulk, leech seed, synthesis & reflect. Especially if it's a female.
Edit: Also, i don't recommend using Marshtomp against Flannery, especially in Emerald due to Sun Strats. She's actually really tough, even with type advantage by your side
2nd Edit: I'd argue Emboar is better simply for the fact that he is the only starter that can reliably deal with Team Plasma. Out of the 4 types they use throughout both games: Normal, Steel, Dark & Poison... *Three* of them are weak to fighting. & You have to fight these guys constantly throughout the Unova Games.
Actually, I'd argue that Torterra should lose some points for a similar reason due to how many poison types he has to deal with against Team Galactic, including the Zubat line. Sure, he gets earthquake, but only upon becoming a Torterra. Prior to that, he's a liability against Team Galactic. & EQ doesn't help against their Bronzors cause every enemy Bronzor in the game has Levitate by default... For *some* reason.
The Meganium line doesn’t learn Leech Seed via level up. Did you breed for it or did you actually use Poison Powder? Also, Marshtomp still has STAB ground moves so it’s totally still good against Flannery. I did an Emerald run with Marshtomp a few months ago and I don’t remember having any issues.
Edit: grammar
@@yorecf9641 Wait, really? Huh, i thought it could... My mistake
@@BardockSkywalker yeah, Meganium kinda drew all of the short straws. It’s unfortunate.
Marshtomp is notable as a mon with super effective stab for water in no weather and ground in sun. It also has more special defense than others like this (pretty much only graveler)
Counterpoint: Stall tactics vs Rollout on a bulky mon that also has stall tactics isn't a good strategy.
I love that my two Beef-Bros "Blastoise and Swampert" are coming out on top :)
Especially Blastoise, my fav Gen1 Pokemon, cause of the Nickname the Blastoise in the 1st movie had.
In english it was "Shellshocker", but in german it was "Panzerschrank" which literally means "Tank-Wardrobe"...
"Schrank" (Wardrobe) being slang word for big/beefy and strong/muscular people (cause a wardrobe is most times, big, heavy and you need strengh to move it) xD
When I was a kid, I was all about the water starters because I knew they were the best. As I got older I gravitated more towards the Fire starters because as good as the water starters are, water poke'mon are SUPER common so they can be replaced with other strong options, while in most of the games finding a good fire type takes a long time. I've never liked the grass starters in any generation and it's often one of the easiest types to just not have on your team. So now I'm at the point where I think the Water type starters might be the best for an easy or fast clear, Fire types are the most fun starters to run with.
That said. Totodile is my favorite starter overall in any of the generations. I named him Zedd, and he was dominant in that game.
Gen 3 is a hard one😅 pre-evoled mudkip, evoled groville, final stage Blaziken😂
It's not that hard, i mean all are my fav, my fav grass starters would be sceptile and fire has to go to blaziken.
But then theres Swampert .
I would love if you did a short video where you talk about pikachu or eevee for the lets go games and which starter is best in legends arceus. just an idea ofc
Water type is an insanely good type (especially for one of the original types, who never received a buff, and also don't really get the overpowerness of some of the more recent types, for example Fairy) with usually very consistent coverage across the board to check their weaknesses.
The Water Starter is almost always going to perform well, and quite often outperform the other two Starters, because that's how good the Water Type is as a whole, generally speaking. But that's also kind of the issue with it as well. It is so good of a Type that you can usually just get a much better (wild) Water Pokemon elsewhere and get even better results than you would by using the Water Starter. That's why some people don't pick the Water Starter. Not to forget, early accessibility (for a type that technically is somewhat limited (to some extent) by fishing and surf, lots of Good Water Pokemon can be picked up quite early, surprisingly, whereas sometimes in the earlier Gens you might struggle to find a good Fire pokemon early on and while Grass Pokemon can be picked up early, they're not always good).
Which brings me to my other point... it's not quite uncommon for some Gens (especially the earlier ones) for the Fire and Grass Starters to quite literally be the best Fire and Grass Pokemon in their respective Gen alltogether. See the imbalance?
This general rule of "Water > Fire > Grass" has changed a little bit over the years because Fire got somewhat of a buff by being super-effective against Steel and Fairy which were two new (VERY strong) types. That's why we're starting to see the Fire Starter slowly creeping up to the top as the video advances.
I'm going to give credit where credit is due to the Gen 1 and 2 fire starters. Lack of fire types, compared to the commonality of water and grass types makes fire starters more valuable. Water types also tend to suffer for this same reason, since Gyarados and Tentacruel are always good choices.
This is gonna be a little bias since I only nuzlocke games but aside from all hoenn related games, black and white, and gen 7, water is always the worst starter to pick, really only because the amount of water types in each game, especially Gyarados, and how easy to access they are. The exceptions are ofc Swampert cause the ground type and not really having many opponents who will have a grass type, Samurott for base bw cause there aren’t really any good other water types, and Primarina with its dual Fairy typing just makes it very great for a lot of the boss fights / totems.
At least for Gen 1, while fire is definitely rarer than the other types, you don’t benefit much from a Fire type at all. You almost always have a flying type on your team for Fly (excluding Charizard, who couldn’t learn it) and those are super common. Flying already covers bug and grass, and Fire doesn’t really cover ice since most ice types are water types (and Charizard is weak to ice), and steel didn’t exist. So you get no additional coverage from a Fire type on most teams. Gen 1 really didn’t benefit from them.
Wonderful presentation style. Agreed on all fronts. I played the heck out of Gold and Silver, so I was super happy to see my boy Totodile get some much needed love. Feraligatr was always on my team. I had already decided on Fuecoco before I got SV, and it’s absolutely broken. Agreed that it’s the strongest starter ever.