TSS Maximum Range Test - How Far Can You Hunt with APEX Turkey Shells
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- What is the maximum official range of TSS shot for turkey hunting? To find out I pattern test APEX tungsten shells at different ranges, including 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, and 90 yards. How far can you shoot a turkey with TSS shot? The answer is a lot further than I ever realized. Due to the high density of tungsten and its ability to carry ballistic energy at range, even in very small pellet sizes, you can hunt at ridiculous ranges that often exceed your ability to properly identify a bearded bird.
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I did this test with my Mossberg 940 Pro Turkey topped with a Holosun 507k Red Dot and a Carlsons 0.670 turkey choke using APEX TSS Turkey loads in 3" with 2.25 oz of #9 shot, traveling at 1190 fps. I did this test at a certified range using ear and eye protection. The pattern test was done using reactive targets on larger paper and I focused on the densest 10" of pattern. This test should also be of interest to duck and goose hunters. APEX provided the shells tested in this video at my request, and Holosun provided the optic, thanks to them for their support.#turkeyhunting #duckhunting #waterfowlhunting
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WOW. I absolutely LOVE all of your videos. I’d love to see you do a test W/ Rocky Ridge TSS Loads.
Thanks! I haven't heard of those. What is unique about them?
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I’ve seen some other patterns out there and they have a 2oz 20ga. Load that looked really good. And there prices seemed pretty reasonable. I’m trying to get the stuff to start reloading my own TSS for Turkey 🦃. But I’m having a hard time finding Turkey 🦃 Loads for TSS.
Very interesting and informative. Thank you, George. As a viewer, I appreciate your time and efforts.😊
Thank you so much! It was a fun test to do. Didn't hurt the shoulder too much, ha.
Apex and TSS has brought new meaning in the Turkey woods...i absolutely love the Mossy Oak blend 9 and 10s...dont underestimate those 10s...its like a nest of mean ass hornets... and you know what mean ass hornets can do....awesome video...i had a feeling they had long range capabilities....my gobbler this year dead at 36 yds...not one pellet in the breast meat...not one.
Thanks! They are very potent. But I'd still rather shoot the bird within 40 yards to keep the meat free of pellets.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide amen to that....
Love your channel George! Been hunting turkeys with TSS for years.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it!
Fantastic video! That’s some great performance.
Thank you so much!
Thats nutz,,,,,i honestly didnt expect that at 70--90 yards,,,,great vid as always bud
Thanks so much! I wonder how many people under estimate distance and think it was 50 yards and take a bird at way further and just never realize it.
I've got some fiber optics on my shotgun, and I don't think I could even see a turkey behind them at these ranges! 🤣
Seeing and then identifying a turkey is a huge limiting factor at this range. This red dot has no magnification. You pretty much need a scope if you are going to do this in the real world!
I shot a turkey last weekend here in Kentucky at 59 yards with BOSS #9 3 inch 20 gauge with factory full choke from my Yildiz over/under. The BOSS TOM TSS 20 gauge loads contain 2 oz. of #9 shot (724 advertised pellets). It dropped immediately on the shot. It put 2 pellets in the head and about 12 pellets in the neck. Most of the pellets in the neck fully penetrated. The neck was broken. This is the first turkey I have shot with TSS. I am a believer.
Very potent stuff! Thank you!
I have the exact same shotgun and I use a kicks goblin thunder .555 and I have hal abbots recipient for 2oz load and I will tell you it will absolutely wax one at 75 yards on the freakin run lol
20 gauge with 2oz???
That hurt lol, would be awesome to see a gell test. Great paterns. God bless you and go get them in the marsh ! Til next week George!
Thanks so much Jeff! I am planning some gel testing, just need to get some more shells!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide right on! Nothing cheap anymore!
I can’t find the Carlsons .670 choke tube for the mossberg 940 all there is the mossberg835/935. So are those compatible with the 940?
Haha not to be that guy, but you are allowed to bring binoculars with you when turkey hunt. Even if you don’t want that extra weight, I think it’s a very prudent decision for a new hunter to bring a rangefinder so you can establish reference points of where it’s safe to shoot. Many rangefinders have somewhere between 4-10x magnification, which is more than enough to quickly ID a turkey that’s at long range and tell if it’s Jake of a Tom just from the beard length if he doesn’t want to fan. There are a lot of situations where you can see turkeys beyond gun range where binoculars can help. They’re also better at gathering light so you can spot a bird that’s off the roost early or spot a roosted turkey from further off whether you’re putting it to bed (if you’re allowed to hunt evenings) or if you’re getting setup before dawn.
All good points. But most people won't want to risk moving to glass a shootable bird. If people really want to hunt from these ridiculous ranges they would be best served with rifle scopes I think. So you can confirm the bird with no more movement than is needed for the shot.
Thanks for testing for us
Thanks!
I think, generally, the 100 pellet threshold is a good rule of thumb. I would not knowingly shoot one at 70 yards. But that is me.
I don't think long range is good because you put too many pellets in the meat. Just trying to show test the effectiveness of the tools.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I agree. But I would rather deal with pellets in the breast than blasting a ball of shot right over one’s head at 10 steps. 😂
Speaking strictly from a penetration standpoint, 10s are good on turkeys to about 55 yards, 9.5s are good into the 60s and 9s are good to about 70 yards. Pattern density is another factor to consider. Don't rely on that single "golden bb". Figure out what is the furthest where you can consistently score multiple kill shots in the brain and spine and whatever range you hit either your minimum required penetration, or minimum pattern density is your max range.
My 60 yard TSS gel test leads me to think that #9s are good to even further than that. I think the pattern becomes the limiting factor before energy does.
@@TheNewHuntersGuidethats absolutely not true... Energy is your limiting factor my man. It's pretty simple math
Everyone thinks like that, but that approach is missing a key element and that is sufficient pattern density to reliably do the job. With TSS, you run out of pattern density before you run out of power, most of the time. You need about 1.5" inches of penetration to kill a turkey, but the pattern becomes insufficient before you reach ranges where the penetration becomes too low. Not always, but often that is the case. Now the smaller the shot you use the more the pendulum swings the other way and you run out of power before pattern. But #9 seems to have about the best balance. Maybe just maybe #8.5 is better, but I need to test it more. #7s actually give you less range than #9 because the pattern degrades long before the ballistics energy runs out. @@joshuaschreiber7772
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Oh, I REALLY agree... By the way, did you feel it when I just subscribed to your channel?
Thanks so much! I don't get notifications any more but I really appreciate the support!
@@zekethefishgeek8690
Wow
Thanks
Too often the art of hunting is lost with the science of shooting distance. Your videos are great. Just found you, but immediately subscribed.
Thank you so much!
George, you're the man as always! When does your season start, I feel like you're west coast somewhere or am I wrong? Our VT season starts Monday but looks like a week of rain so hoping it clears a bit.
Thank you so much! I start on Saturday actually, I'm in PA. Looks real rainy here, so I've got a blind setup for opening day.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide good luck!
George I enjoy your honest and precise videos. I notice you never use a chronograph which is fine because you incorporate the ballistics gelatin. I have one I no longer use for my rifle reloading you can have if you ever decide you may want/need one for your videos.
Hey thank you so much! I appreciate the offer! I don't use one because I don't have one, yet. That's the biggest reason. I wouldn't use it often, but I would here and there. I did some research and found not all Chronos are good for shotguns. Would the one you have be ideal for the job?
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I really don’t know. I’ve only chronographed my rifles and arrows. A shotgun might be a different deal I’m not sure. I’ll look at the brand and model next chance I get
@@kross1261 Let me know the make/model and I can do the research on it. Thanks!
Thanks for all of the work brother! I know that I’m speaking for many when I say that we really appreciate the “real data!” 🤘🏽🤘🏽
Thank you so much!
George can I use my factory full choke for turkey and will it work or not tight enough
Should work just fine for regular ranges. I did a video on that very subject last year.
Thank you
Holy sh*t!!! I’m a 20 gauge guy and I know that 60 yard patterns that I’ve seen, are absolutely deadly!
A 20 will definitely do the job!
To me, it would not be any fun to shoot them that far away. I like to bring them in close and just watch them for a bit. Haven't had a shot over 20 yards in 30 years. But at the end of the day, to each is own....I am just glad to see more hunters in the field to keep the birds moving around.
Have u tried the Code Black Turkey.665?
No, not yet.
George, you are a glutton for punishment! Don't stop. Great stuff!
Haha, thanks so much. This one wasn't too painful. I stuff heavy duty First Lite Tundra beanie under my jacket to help with the recoil lol.
Penetration depth at 90 yards?
Watch the 100 yard video. It's not enough to matter.
This guy is good 😊
Thank you!
I’d love to see you do a review of the Carlsons TSS choke. For my gun it’s a 640 vs 660 of their turkey choke. It patterns federal TSS 9’s better than the turkey choke.
You aren't the first person to ask. I am going to see if I can get one. Thank you!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide haha, it was me on another video the other day. I hadn’t seen that you replied to that one. I’d think that since Carlson’s made it, that they wouldn’t have gone that tight if it was worse. It is reportedly made specifically for federal TSS and their flight control wad, but THAT feels like the bit that is all marketing and I’d like to see if compared to APEX and BOSS 9s. I have the Winchester invector choke, which is compatible with the Mossberg 500. I would be happy to send over the choke and a shell of federal and Boss Tom if you’d like.
@@Snailz5 I'm working on it, I think I can get one. Thanks.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide for reference, at 50 yards I had 148 pellets in the 10 inch circle of the target and the 10 inch around the densest portion of the pattern was 158 with the 640. It was 87/147 for the 660. For both shots the densest portion of the pattern was about 6 inches left. The load was federal TSS 9 shot, 3 in, 1 3/4 oz, 1200 fps, which should have about 633 pellets. For the 640: 9 pellets in the skull,, 6 in the vital parts of the neck, 32 in the body of the HS strut paper target. 660, 2 skull, 11 neck, 8 body.
The accuracy issue is likely a combo of eye alignment and my gun rather than the load since different loads and different chokes at different ranges have all shot left for me.
@@Snailz5 Thanks, that is the same load I plan to test as well!
Opening day I shot a gobbler at 65 yds with the Apex 9/10 blend 3 inch, put him down where he stood, couple of wing flops and it was over, for me it not about price, it's about results and this ammo gets it done
It is potent stuff for sure!
But how much energy is retained at 90 yards?
That is a great question, to study once I can get some more ammo.
There is alot of information on tss penetration test. # 5 tss will penetrate 1.25” at over 140 yards. So the bigger the shot gets it seems to retain energy further and further
My homemade lead #5 1/2 shot(supposed to be #5, came out a little small) penetrated 1/8" plywood at 50 yrds no problem. It was made from range scrap, so it's slightly lighter than pure lead. And though I tried hard it's not perfectly round, so BC is lower than perfect spheres. Velocity was about 1,325, energy at 50 yrds estimated at 1.4 ft-lbs per pellet. It's not TSS, but if homemade range scrap lead shot can be effective at 50 yrds, surely TSS has enough to get the job done at 75 yrds or more. Could always run your own test at longer ranges with 1/8" plywood or gel and run the numbers in a ballistic app to get energy estimates per pellet, if you're into that kind of analysis stuff.
I just got some Apex Small town blend. 7s and 9s
Nice!
Time to put a 4x scope on your shotty!
You need to if you want to see the beard at these ranges!
APEX SEND THIS MAN SOME PRODUCT TO TEST! Man is so generous he donates all his apex turkey shells in the name of science over his own turkey harvest!
You are too kind sir. I would have liked to take these shells into the woods but I still made it out with solid ammo. Thankfully lots of folks do send me ammo to test, I never go without. But I did wish I had 2 more of these apex shells left lol.
Can you / will you pattern test a 28ga double barrel side by side with aftermarket choke tube & TSS load?
It's a good idea. I'd happily test it if I ever get such a gun.
Good
Thanks!
This weekend I took a shot at a turkey that appeared to be 60ish yards to both me and my cousin who I was hunting with, using boss tom 2.5oz #9 tss. Neither of us had a problem identifying a beard, and I had no problem drawing a big fat browning white bead on his head. Took my shot and the beaten zone of my pattern landed at his feet in the dust, about a turkey body height low. Using a muller ufo choke, my pattern was the exact same size as the turkey! Well turns out he was at a lazered 107yds. (Best explanation we could come up with is that it was a big bird, on a small saddle so thats why he appeared to be closer than he was, as there was no ground inbetween to help clarify distance)
Oh wow. I've done it too. Thought a turkey was at about 45 yards once. Turned out it was double that. And those were before the days of tss. I fired 3 shots but none of them mattered. It makes me wonder if you aimed higher would the shot have had the needed power. More testing to come.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide a couple flyers in the pattern grazed a sumac bush he was standing nearby and fully penetrated the 3/8-1/2” stems
George, when are you going to take us on a turkey with you?
I've taken a camera into the woods and I just decided that is not my lane. The skill, equipment, time, and manpower you need to film a hunt well is very high, as is the editing investment needed to tell the story well. There are so many on UA-cam doing a great job there, I've decided its not an area I can or should invest in. I only have 1 gopro as a camera, which is the worst camera ever for filming hunts. My lane in research, experiments, tests, reviews, and insights. I have strengths in these areas I can leverage to contribute to UA-cam and the hunting community. I'll leave filming hunts to those who excel in that area.
Boldly stating "a dead turkey @ 90 yards" could be a bit misleading without proof of penetration. Holes in a paper target just means the paper is dead! I would seriously be careful to not mislead new hunters into thinking this is good! It's nice to see the patterns of expensive TSS loads, but I think TSS presents a different issue.
TSS turkey loads along with a good quality turkey choke can shoot extremely tight patterns. Your odds of missing a bird up close are greatly increased! I personally think the patterns are too tight sometimes. It's really important to know your shotgun's point of impact with these rounds, & you really need to aim up close at a still neck/head or you will miss!
I don't want to take away from what was shared here, because it's somewhat valuable information. Live turkeys are not stationary paper targets, & it's important to not lose sight of that. At some point, you may need to admit the Tom won today (lives on) & be OK with that, too!
You are right. I need to get more shells to do some penetration tests.
ill never pay that much for ammo, but thanks for the test.
My pleasure!
You love us? Damn man… We love you!
Thank you so much!
Anyone believes that is just crazy
Believes what?
A LOT OF GUYS ARE SWITCHING TO 20 GA GUNS AND SHELLS FOR TURKEYS INCLUDING ME. HOW ABOUT DOING SOME 20 GA TESTS FOR US. OPENS UP NEW OPPORTUNITIES FOR YOU!!
That is like a whole years worth of content there actually! I don't have a 20, and I have too many more 12 gauge videos I feel compelled to make first. But it will likely happen in time.
Yep. At 57 no more 12 ga. preferably.
#9 TSS has a lethal range of 73 yards after that the energy falls off you will start wounding birds that just run away.
What initial velocity is that based on?
I just had a buddy take a coyote at 63yds with #9tss that was working its way into his turkey spread. It completely penetrated its skull and we found pellet wounds in the front of the lungs. If it’ll do that to a coyote at 60, then a turkey is absolutely no problem at 90.
@@veteranironoutdoors8320 I've seen gel penetration at 3" at 60yards, and that was with TSS slowly than this one. I'm thinking it might do the job at 90 as well. I plan to test that. I just need to get some more shells. And maybe save one or two for actually hunting turkeys, ha.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide 1175 fps - 1190 fps. independent ballistics consultant Tom Roster and author specializing in the design and testing of shotshell loads for U.S. shotshell and reloading components manufacturers. His test in the 90's showed that 2.5 foot pounds of energy is needed to produce consistent clean ethical kills in turkeys.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide do you have a link? I would like to see that. All the gel test of #9TSS that I've seen on you tub @ 60 are + - 1" 1/2"
This is horrible telling new hunters or any hunter for that matter to shoot at turkeys that far.
Did you watch the video? I said no such thing. In fact I cautioned people not to.
I watched enough of it to see thats exactly what you are doing. It's wreckless and turkeys deserve more respect.
Shooting turkeys at 50+ yards isn't turkey hunting. That's my opinion.
@gfy777 did you see the 50 yard pattern? There are more pellets in a 10" circle than are even in many lead loads. How is that reckless? How does it do anything but ensure a clean instant kill?
Because aiming at 20 yards and aiming at 50+ with a shotgun are very different.
Thanks!
Thank you so much sir! I really appreciate it!