Do Ported or Non-Ported Chokes Pattern Better? BOSS Warchief & HEVI Steel
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- What patterns better, ported or non-ported choke tubes? I tested Carlson's sporting clays ported modified and full chokes against the exact same chokes but unported. For this experiment I used BOSS Warchief Bismuth #3/5 ammo and HEVI Shot HEVI Steel #4 ammunition to see if there is any difference between metals, densities, velocities and pellet sizes. I did the pattern tests with these shot shells at 40 yards using my Mossberg 940 Pro Waterfowl shotgun.
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This review was done at a certified shooting range with proper eye and ear protection. This test didn't address whether ported or unported chokes reduce felt recoil, but I did link to that test at the end. BOSS provided some of the shells used in this video at my request, and Carlson's sent the chokes, thanks to them for their support. #duckhunting #waterfowlhunting #shotgun
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Doing the work we need. Thanks for the codeos
Thank you so much!
I appreciate all the videos you put out. It would be awesome to see some pattern test at 20 or 30 yards to see a more realistic pattern for hunting. Thanks again.
Thanks, it's a good idea. Hoping to get around to that.
This is why I hand load for waterfowl. I have found buffer with bismuth to make a really solid improvement on pattern. Full length pellet protection makes a huge improvement as well. I recently came up with a 10ga bismuth load where I use a Mylar shot wrapper and buffer that patterns better at 1-7/8oz than the Boss 10ga 2-1/8oz by a long shot! Btw, I’m using the same wad and shot size as Boss.
Nice! Have you tried the new BOSS buffered shot?
Great video! I've been waiting for this video to pop up since you said you filmed it.
It seemed the ported deffinatly made a difference with the steel shot at its higher velocity. But it seems like boss really upped the performance on their new warchief ammo line. Can't wait to use them this year. I've got the carlsons sporting clays choke tubes for berretta in improved mod, mod, and light mod.
Thanks so much! The new BOSS shells are amazing. I can't wait to see what the 3" does. I was surprised to see how well the ported chokes did, at least with these loads in this gun.
As velocity and pressure increase the effectiveness of the ported chokes also increase. My tests when I conducted them in the early 2000’s were with trap loads- Heavy lead pheasant loads and affordable steel shot available at the time. My findings were that in all but 3” steel shot the non ported were superior . But as in most things ammo tech has come a long way in the 20 years since. All of my testing was also done through a Beretta A 390 auto using Carlsons chokes Imp Cyl- Imp mod as full chokes were not recommended for steel shot at that time.
Thanks for the feedback!
Thank you , I was wondering if their was a difference in those Chokes and as Always you come out with the Right Stuff ... Thank you for the Information and Video ... God Bless .
Thank you so much!
Great video! That’s very interesting…think you finally figured out the truth behind porting. 🍻
I still don't think you can say ported chokes pattern better in general, but this proves they CAN pattern better. The biggest truth, is always test!
Very true. 👍🏻
Respect to all of your effort sharing all these data with us!
1) What is your opinion on ported barrels
2) what would be the outcome using both ported barrels with ported chokes?
Thanks! My experience has been that ported barrells help reduce recoil which is good but improve volume relative to the shooter and those behind the line of fire which is bad. They have no effect on patterning any more than just one barrel to the next would.
Thanks for the reply!!
Looking forward to your next video!
Good work- thank you
Thank you!
Good video. It is appreciated 👍
Thank you so much!
Excellent vid.
Thank you so much!
I think Field and Stream did an article some years ago that came to a similar conclusion.
I wouldn't have believed it unless I did the test myself. I'd think they are trying to sell more expensive ported chokes or something.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Never can tell with big publishing. Repeatable results is the mark of good data. Thanks for putting in the work.
Very good video
Thank you so much!
I always thought in my minds eye that the ported tube drops the barrel pressure just before the wad leaves and gives the shot a cleaner release.
That is possible. I can't come up with any way to test it, but it could be the case. All I know for sure is that these particularly chokes liked this gun and ammo.
Hey George thanks for counting all those pellets for us. I don't know if getting an ear ringing is worth the extra pellets or not , great data as always. I'm not getting notifications when you post don't know if it's me or not, God bless you and go get them in the marsh.
And yes l where ear protection lol.
Thanks Jeff! Much appreciated. I am not able to do anything with the notifications. Sounds like that is on UA-cam's side.
What I would like to see tested in the future is what happens when loads that use shorter wads that leave much of the shot exposed to the barrel and choke, are used in conjunction with ported chokes. This especially applies to smallbores like the 20-28 and 410 bores that often use shorter wads in an effort to maximize payload. Does it improve? Does the porting damage those outer layer of pellets or is there no discernable difference?
Thanks! What do you mean about the porting damaging the pellets?
My sx4 has a carlson cremator ported modified, it does better than the factory supplied modified choke.
Nice! I just got some cremators to check!
Thanks for doing this test! This data is counter to what Joel found in the Surviving Duck Season series on choke tubes. He said that ported choke tubes universally patterned worse than the non-ported versions, so I wasn't expecting this result. Your sample size was much smaller, but it was consistent across both ammo and tubes. Did you look at pattern consistency beyond pellet count? For example were, there more or less "holes" in the pattern with one type of choke?
I'm sure Joel's data was good, and it could be with the guns he tested, it was universal. I think this test demonstrates that you have to test with your gun to find the best choke. I didn't notice anything significantly different about pattern uniformity, but that is really hard to measure objectively, I've tried and the math becomes mud.
thanks I was gonna bring up that same video and result. My reaction: "depends on the tube", i agree too that it can also be the gun. I believe in the philosophy of matching YOUR gun to a choke that works for you. There's no short cuts. if I had a gunshop, i'd have a range, one where you could try all the chokes I sale, pattern your gun etc. A real shooters place, well, hunters place. I have a list of chokes I want to try to see what suits me and my gun best - can't, well, SHOULDN'T, that's hundreds just to taste it.
I love the video. I would like to pontificate a and hypothesize a little bit.
It's pretty well documented that lower velocity loads pattern better. However I feel that higher velocity helps me kill birds better with steel I am unsure of why but the two most likey assumptions are either helping me hit better by slightly shortening leads or perhaps better individual pellet energy. I can't scientifically say it does but that's been my impression.
My idea would be to compare ported vs. Non ported chokes focusing on higher velocity ammunition. I have a fairly large collection of various steel shot I would gladly send you if you decide to test that next but if that correlation could be proven that could be really helpful. I know that to be scientific you need to shoot several shots of each loading and that takes forever but it's a question that's sweet last worth thinking about.
Once again loved the video
Thanks so much! So my past research shows that no matter how fast the steel leaves the barrel, the increased velocity at the target at 40 yards is negligible. All loads are within about 50 fps of each other, even if they start at 400 fps faster. However, they do leave barrel faster, so it is feasible that choke makes a difference at that point. However, I've found ported chokes to have no impact on recoil whatsoever, no matter what the velocity or conditions are.
So for there to be an impact on pattern that differs by velocity would assume more nuanced variables that I think are likely to be too precise to be evident in a field test as clunky as mine. And it may just very well differ by gun as much as anything else. This test didn't show ported chokes as better, it just showed they could be better under some conditions. Another test against finer variables likely wouldn't produce any more useful learnings than this one.
i still have ringing in my ears from from a poly choke with recoil reducer in the early 80s. i dont subject my buddies to ported chokes and use the same Carlsons Sporting Clays IM and F tubes i use for trap (pattern small, miss big). i handload with recipes from Precision's "Lightning Steel" so the sound 40 of grains of Aliant Steel powder going off might not be good for the hearing.
Oh man, sorry to hear that. Thanks for weighing in.
I wonder if the steel improved with the ported chokes because it was higher velocity and most likely higher pressure? Either way, pretty interesting to see.
That is as good a theory as any. Could also just be that wad likes the taper more in this tube. There are so many possible variables. Just gotta test what you have.
Odd that your findings were the opposite of surviving duck season. He stated that 100% of the time, ported chokes performed worse.
I don't think much of anything can be 100% of the time, every time, in shotguns. Non ported may be best most of the time, but not 100% of the time.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide well thank you for you honest findings. I think he’s got a great channel as well, but honestly, he never actually answers many questions or posts information the way that you do…. PS. I found some Kent Fasteel PLUS at my local hardware store today in a 2/4 blend. I’d send you a few shells if I knew your address.
Thanks! I think Joel has the best channel on the platform. But I also think everyone benefits from testing different things different ways and comparing findings. My finding was some ported chokes may outperform some unported. It doesn't make his research wrong, it just adds context. I just got a box of thr Fasteel+ too! But thanks for the offer!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide oh good! I look forward to seeing your findings on it. I’ll be doing my own as well in my A400 extreme plus with the factory chokes.
When are we gonna see the muller choke in action. It’s the one I’m looking at for my Mossberg any feed back on the decoy choke would be appreciated.
Thursday of this week!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide is it better than factory?
@@twitch.merritt8483 Depends entirely on the gun and factory choke.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Mossberg 940 waterfowl pro. I thought you may have tested a touch with one lol
@@twitch.merritt8483 Oh yea, the Muller is better than the stock 940 choke. Considering it only comes with 1 modified lol.
Nice video great job! Question!ported barrel with non ported choke vs non ported barrel with ported choke?? what do you think about this test?is it impossible to make that video?????
Hey thanks! I can already tell you everything you need from a half dozen other tests. Ported choke does nothing, period. Except look cool and sound louder. Ported barrel reduces recoil and muzzle rise, noticeably and measurably. No matter the combination, nothing changes those two facts.
Maybe a rear breaking wad that relies on muzzle blast to open up would release shot a hair slower with a ported choke?... No Idea but I doubt it.
I do not know, nor do I have access to the equipment needed to investigate. I'm starting to think that different chokes just like different guns more, sometimes ported, sometimes not. I've done some testing with flight control wads and such that is in line to be released, seems to be more about the gun/choke/ammo combo than anything else. But buffered shot definitely does pattern better period. That definitely makes a difference.
This video is awesome. I am on the fence between the sporting clay ported full choke and the ported cremator long range choke. Do you think the TST on the cremator would make a big difference between the two chokes? Thanks
Thanks so much! What ammo are you using? The Cremator is maybe the better option between the two for steel, but I would chose the full for everything else. But you already have one and not the other, I'd just stick with what you have unless the performance is not where you want it. I did just get a set of cremators that I plan to test in the future.
Leaning towards the Sporting clay full ported based on the video
Do you think the slightly extended length of the ported choke tube vs the shorter non-ported could’ve had an effect on the pattern density. Thinking the wad is contained slightly longer in the ported than the non?
For the actual increase in length vs the speed of the shot, I don't think so. If that fraction of an inch made a significant difference then all chokes would be longer so they could pattern better. Its basically the length of the ports is how much more extended it is. But I don't have any better theories really.
You ever think it might be a gimmick just to sell more ported chokes or just for looks
I think half of all marketing is a gimmick. But these did work well in this test.
Several things to point out. First, I notice you use the Hevi Steel #4 for a lot of videos. I’d recommend cutting 5 of them open and verifying the pellet count. Just cracked open a Hevi teal #6 1 1/4oz and it was 27 pellets short. I think Hevi Shot counts the weight of the filler they toss in AND the weight of the wad, which is complete BS. Plus, it would really skew the efficiency numbers from a lot of your videos. 54% from a mod choke is unacceptable. I think trying a load that patterns better and isn’t lying about what’s in the shell would be better for testing purposes. They run Hevi Steel so fast that you have to choke it hard to pattern well. Try something going in the 1300s like any of the 1 3/8 oz loads (Remington Nitro would probably be my first pick) and see if slower patterns well AND then what sort of gain you get from ported vs non ported. It would also be great to compare pattern size at 20-25 yards. No point using that XF choke to get Hevi to give decent patterns at 40 if your spread isn’t larger than a mallard until 30 yards.
Yea, this HEVI Steel leaves a bit to be desired, at least out of this gun. Ultimately pattern efficiency means little, total pellets on paper is everything. Kent Fasteel patterns really well out of this setup, just finished editing a video with it. But in any event, none of that really changes anything. The final conclusion is that non-ported choke tubes do not automatically perform better than ported chokes. It could go either way. Testing with other ammo wouldn't really change that, no matter what the results were. Everyone needs to test with their setup to see how things do.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I have to push back somewhat on pattern efficiency not mattering. A more efficient pattern should in theory let you use a more open choke and let’s you have a larger shot dispersion at shorter ranges. If you have to restrict a load tight because the pattern tanks between 30-40 yards, your dispersion at shorter ranges will still be small before all those flyers zip off, making close shots more difficult. This could be tested by comparing loads with similar pattern efficiencies at 40, with one requiring a much more restricted choke and then comparing patterns at several intervals between 15-35 yards. If the end result is 180 pellets on paper at 40 looks the same at shorter intervals with different restrictions, that would be a great thing to know. If there is a major difference, then using 40 yard pattern is not as useful as a standalone benchmark for patterning.
@@Snailz5 You are absolutely right. But that assumes some things we cannot take for granted. Pattern efficiency is a number on a page, a calculation with variables. If the manufactured shorts the shells on pellets, then the number may look terrible where the reality is better. Or if the manufacturer loads extra pellets, the percentage may seem higher than it actually is. Unless you load your own ammo and count the pellets, then pattern efficiency is a useful but not very authoritative metric. The only thing I can trust is the number of pellets on the paper. I wish I could trust pattern efficiency but I've never cut open a shell that had the exact number of pellets it was supposed to have. They always have more or less, and sometimes it could be alot more or less. Usually less.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide one pretty cheap and easy option you have is to get a Frankfort arsenal scale. It has a counting function so you only need to count out 25 pellets. Dump the rest in and it uses the weight to count the rest.
@@Snailz5 The would easy the burden of counting, but you will never know exactly how many pellets are in the shells you shoot, only the ones you cut open. Some can vary a lot. I also did a video on how terrible some of the shot looks, there are often anomalies, even large mutant pellets that take up the space of 5 regular ones. It is an uphill battle. I still always track and report on pattern efficiency, because it is helpful. I think we are putting too much stock in it though. The pellets on paper is the real number. That is what drops birds. Put them on paper at whatever ranges you might be hunting to see how the shells perform. That's the best test. Efficiency matters but the actual pattern matters most.
VERY INTERESTING CAN YOU DO THIS WITH TURKEY CHOKE TUBES?
Not easily. Almost no one makes 2 versions of the same choke. But my experience has been that ports make no difference either way. And 2 of the same chokes off the same shelf of the same company will probably have more choke to choke pattern variation than porting may cause.
Lost me when miss pronounced the word "data" (day- taa)
Ha, its only a mispronounce depending on where you are from.