Do Ported Choke Tubes Reduce Recoil? The FINAL Test
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- Can an aggressively ported choke reduce shotgun recoil? I used a short barrel turkey hunting shotgun, with high brass waterfowl loads and a recoil sensor to find out once and for all. For this test I used a Carlson's non-ported 0.670 choke against a 0.670 Mossberg Accu-choke that was ported with 16 ports. The shotgun was a Mossberg 940 Pro Turkey with a 24-inch barrel and I used high power BOSS Bismuth shotgun shells with 1 1/4 ounces of shot traveling at 1350 fps. The test was conducted with a Mantis Elite 10x Training sensor that provides three felt recoil measurements.
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I did this test at a certified range with proper ear and eye protection. The idea is that the choke tube could vent gas to the sides instead of exiting the barrel and thus reduce recoil. This is the third time I've done this type of a test but today I corrected for several additional variables that viewers pointed out in previous tests. I used choke tubes of equal constriction, high powered ammo, not too many shots, a shotgun with a non-ported barrel, and a very aggressively ported choke tube. Does a heavily ported choke tube reduce shotgun recoil? You are going to have to watch the video to find out. Mantis provided the recoil sensor used in this video, Carlson's provided the choke tube and BOSS provided the shells, thanks to them for their support.
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As someone who has worked in research I'm inspired by your focus and progress minded thinking. Your tests are clean, but not OCD level clean where you're overthinking dependent variable minutia (thats me). Your effective, clean, diligent testing sets you up very well for follow up testing/simpler analysis.. Taking notes! Also thank you for the data!
Thank you so much for the feedback, I really appreciate it! I just try to go out and generate the data points I can reasonably generate. And then refine the approach and generate more next time. Inching close and close towards better overall understanding.
I have to say, you have answered so many of my questions in your videos. Honestly, damn near everything. Your testing has saved me a ton of money. I can't thank you enough. Thanks man.👌
Awesome! So glad to hear that! More test videos to come!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide make sure you tell us the best long range 100 range and 200 range minimum for wider patterns to bring down as many game as possible.
What I appreciate most about your videos is you are one of the very few who establish testing parameters. Always great content and the information imparted makes us all better hunters, shooters and consumers. Gob bless you, and go get ‘em on the high plains!
Thank you so much! I really appreciate the feedback!
You're always pretty thorough on your tests. Keep burning ammo lol 🤣😂water fowl loads are just fine for turkey
Recoil is from the shot and wad leaving the casing upon ignition of the shell. Good job finding the facts
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I can't wait with the extreme test the widest and longest range pattern test 🎯 make sure you tell us the best gun and the best choke for best wider patterns and in longest 100 yard range.
@@tjs792 I don't think any waterfowl load outside of tungsten is going to have any impact at those ranges. Philosophically, I am not looking to try and bring down multiple birds with big patterns. That is a recipe for crippling and wounding birds to fly away and die later. I think its best to have focus shots with dense patterns to humanely and quickly take down birds without suffering. Plus mass shooting birds makes it hard to manage limits, identify birds at long range, and in generally it just really doesn't work well. I tried it some when I was new and didn't know any better. The shot to kill ratio was so bad that I couldn't go on.
Best channel on youtube in my opinion, you bring science to back everything up!
Thank you so much!
Great to see objective measures. Thanks for another great video.
Thanks so much!
Science is expensive ! Great video
Thank you so much!
Super job as I expect from you. You are an honest man. Thank you, and God bless
Thank you sir!
Try a 20 gauge shell in your 12 gauge non ported choke and try the 12 gauge shell in your 12 gauge ported choke. I need ported to win one…….
Great video as usual. Big fan of boss shells. Love their product.
Haha, I don't think the 20 gauge shell would go anywhere lol. Thanks so much!
Nice....GREAT JOB!
Thanks!
I have a .35 Whelen break action single shot rifle that I have a muzzle break on. When I bought the gun new I shot it without a break. It kicked hard enough to slide my hat down over my eyes. I have a 30-06 bolt action rifle with a 26 inch barrel that is substantially heavier than the .35 Whelen. It was a relief to shoot the 30-06 after shooting the Whelen without the break. After I had the break put on the .35 Whelen the recoil with it was noticeably less than the 30-06. The break on my .35 Whelen several inches long with large openings and fins out to the side to direct the gases. I put about 57 grains of powder in the .Whelen's casings and it operates at 50,000+ PSI. The shot gun operates at 10,000- 11,500 PSI. About the most powder I put into a 12 guage shotgun shell is 30-38 grains and the ports in the choke tube or the barrel if it's ported are fairly small. I believe they are angled slightly to the rear to counter the recoil with the ports on the top straight up to reduce muzzle rise. I have noticed at the gun club I belong to that shotguns with ported barrels are louder than the ones without while we are shooting trap and the guys who use them seem to like them. Maybe there is just not enough gas escaping through the ports make a real difference on the shotgun shooting a relatively slow but very heavy shot charge in comparison to a centerfire rifle.
Please excuse the long comment. I enjoy your videos very much!
Thanks so much! Ported chokes and ported barrells are very different things in the shotgun world. A ported choke is not like a muzzle break st all, but a ported barrell is similar. I have a shotgun with a ported barrell and it noticeably reduces recoil. It is louder but shoots much softer. I am not sure if it affects velocity at all. But for long shoots, it's a nice tool to have.
Thanks!
Wow, thank you so much!!! I really appreciate it!!!
Something to note is that with recoil operated shotguns an effective muzzle brake will effect cycling as a rule and possibly cause malfunctions, especially with shorter barrels with thin walls. Anyway. Great video, George!
Thanks so much! I don't expect many people will use a true muzzle brake on a hunting shotgun though. More likely to use something to reduce volume. That would be an interesting test there.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide True, that's a problem I've only heard of with tactical type shotguns used for competition.
The only thing i can see that could objectively make a difference is just removing the shooter and using something like a lead sled. Other than that, i appreciate your efforts to make the testing process as scientific as possible.
Thanks!
Great video as usual.
Thanks you so much!
Awesome video would love to see a extremely ported choke like a Kicks Gobbling Thunder though
Thanks! If the choke is ported enough, it's the same as having a slightly shorter barrell, which doesn't do much for recoil either.
Hey George, I think I get more relief from recoil at least felt recoil from my kick ezz recoil pad then I do with my brileys ported choke hands down, God bless you and go get them in the marsh
I think you are absolutely right. Thanks!
Great video! Thanks for doing this.
Thanks for watching!
2A💪. Thx for work I was wondering about those. 👍
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for testing
Thanks for watching!
Hey George awesome video! So what your saying here is for the most part porting on the tubes is; just sales to us because it looks cool! Marketing hype!
Well, the only thing I can say for sure is that it does not appear to do anything to impact recoil. It's possible porting impacts pattern, there is data show it does and doesn't. I did a video on it ua-cam.com/video/DuMUAm53Vo8/v-deo.html. So maybe, maybe not. And they are definitely louder.
It's all how many game you can bring down with a single shot short range long range target wide pattern test 🎯
Now I hadn't thought to do a wide pattern test. But I now have some good chokes for it.
One thing to say, degrees of vertical muzzle rise does not indicate more felt recoil. Because the gas is escaping in escaping in all directions, it is expected that you will have more vertical and horizontal muzzle movement. However, this does not necessarily mean more felt recoil in terms of kinetic energy backwards. It may actually slightly reduce it, leading to less felt recoil and a faster recovery time, despite the higher climb. Although at 0.02 seconds difference, less muzzle climb is probably more beneficial. It is interesting that nobody makes a directionally ported shotgun choke like a rifle compensator, that ports the gas upwards, specifically to reduce muzzle climb.
Also, I wonder if these results would be more magnified on a manually operated shotgun, without the recoil operated loading system to absorb some of the impact. I've got a break action, single barrel, 10 gauge if you want to find out. 🤣 You will certainly feel a box of shells through that!
I believe one of the metrics is a measure of rearward travel not just vertical.
The action makes a big difference, I did a whole video on it, and a test is planned.
Nice test!
Thank you!
Yep please test the autoloader shotgun break-in theory
Thanks! I think I will. I am curious myself!
All my ported shotgun chokes face forward. Hence it's not a muzzle brake like a rifle where the gases are directed backwards.
Correct!
Thinking about your comments on how friendly that high brass is. Having only wxperience with low brass and standard high brass myself, I wonder if having the extra length of brass in those shells, reduces swelling or expansion of the shell upon firing which may help speed yp the cycling of the spent shell?
I am not sure if there is any science behind that or not. I have not noticed any difference myself, though I do not reload or thoroughly inspect my spent shells. I think it's probably that big just for marketing purposes, else they would advertise some other benefit for it.
I always thought it was the cool factor. Porting a gun works because of the direction of the holes on the top of the barrel. I have muzzle breaks on rifles but they are nothing like chokes that are ported. I went with the cremator chokes because they are supposed to help with the wad seperation. That would be an interesting video to do. Which choke is best for wad seperation.
Cool factor is a very real and legit factor. As for wad separation, if that is a thing, the end pattern is all that matters. I did recently get some creamator chokes so we will do a little testing with those in the future.
I would have been interested to hear more about the theory behind porting. Why is it that people thought porting would help with recoil?
I think they assume choke porting operates similarly to a muzzle break which focuses the gasses directionally to reduce muzzle rise and recoil. And of course there is no relation.
Porting also widens your pattern. A Carlsons non ported vs ported, the non ported will shoot a tighter pattern. This is arcoss the board will all chokes. At least as far as Surviving Duck Season (Joe's) data showed.
We will see about that. I am going to do a test video on the subject.
@@TheNewHuntersGuideI can't find it. Can you direct me to it?
@@BBEEAATTNNGGUU ua-cam.com/video/DuMUAm53Vo8/v-deo.html&
But, but, ported choke tubes look cool!
Yes, yes they do!
And that’s not even getting into the differences in patterning. Went down this road years ago and found that un ported chokes threw better patterns
Sometimes they do indeed! Though it's not universal. I did a test video on that subject.
You didnt state your altitude also you didn't stick a level on your gun to make sure your gun was 100% level. Too many unknowns. You are going to have to retest. ;)
Oh man, I never thought of the altitude thing. Looks like we need 1 more...
Great -BUT! to get technical , you should have shown the first shots; ( you could have saved some cartridges) not the average, as the gun weighed more with the magazine full; which may add to the reduced muzzle rise ??????? Sorry! All the same you are doing a great job, and keeps us keen for Wildfowling season to start.
What do you mean by shown the first shots? I'm trying to follow you.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I mean the first reading on the sensor with a fully loaded gun as it then weighs + 4x approx 1-1/2 oz = 6oz more than the last shot.
I purchased a box of Boss Stinger ammo of #5 and 6. I’m looking for a close range load for over decoys in a corn field. Most of our first shots are 20 yrds at most. Some way closer. Have you any info on Stingers? Recoil, pattern, #6 gel depth? If not, I can send you some. DM me how to do that. I plan on testing the sixes on pigeons this summer. There’s only 83 days until dove season. Great video
Thanks so much! I have not shot any stingers yet. I'm torn on trying the legacy stingers or waiting for the new warcheif stingers.
How about a test like this comparing recoil with Cylinder chokes vs IC vs Mod vs Full to see if the constriction makes a difference in recoil?
What is the hypothesis on how constriction could effect recoil? I'm not connecting those dots.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide The greater restriction of a full choke could allow pressure to build up higher than with an open choke because of the micro delay it causes. Greater pressure could result in either or both of higher velocity of the shot charge or, more likely, higher velocity of the burned powder. Powder discharge is a much higher velocity than the projectile in all cases and is a contributing factor of recoil when directed in the projectile path (as witnessed by the effectiveness of ports in barrels pointed up or sideways in rifles and handguns). Conversely, some say the Choke restriction delay will cause the recoil to be reduced as it's a drag on the barrel by the shot charge in the direction of discharge thereby pulling the firearm forward and resulting in lower felt recoil.
@@jamesstevens213 Well, I never thought about it like that. I honestly don't think my equipment is sensitive enough to discern any measure difference under those conditions if one were to exist.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Unfortunately I don't have any equipment to test either hypothesis. I guess no one could really know if their equipment is sensitive enough without trying the experiment.
They make recoil instruments designed for the purpose, but they are neither cheap or easy to get. If I feel no difference shooting them, I know my equipment isn't going to give any statistically significant differences between. You would need higher tech. Only a few orgs in the world have what is needed to measure nuances that small. But I can say pretty confidently that there is no effective difference in a hunting application. If there were in a sporting clays or trap application where you shoot a lot more all the time, that would have been identified by now I would think. @@jamesstevens213
Not surprised in the least. I don't know why people would expect some magical reduction in recoil from gas venting in the last inch of barrel when the shot has already been accelerated down 28 inches of barrel. Newton's laws don't lie.
I thought it was a marketing driven thing but I've only ever seen one company claiming this. I think it's just crazy internet ideas running unchecked.
A fully loaded gun weighs + 4x 1-1/2oz approx =6oz more than the last shot.
Right.
Yes do a break in video
You got it!
My Mossberg 835 Ulti-Mag came with a solid Turkey choke. However the top of my barrel is ported. Is your 940 barrel ported? Great videos
My 940 does not have a ported barrel, but my 930 does. The ported barrel definitely makes a difference. I did a test on that specifically.
good video my question id i have the stevens 320 turkey shot gun and never got to use it for spring turkey but hoping to get out for the fall hunt that just started. ok so question ids i want to use this as a backup to deer hunting if needed but can't really find the answer to what choke would work best for slug and or 00 buck. thanks for any help
Thanks! Slugs usually require cylinder or improved cylinder. Buck shot is another animal, and is usually recommended that you use full or modified, but I have not done enough testing there to give much specific feedback.
There are some shotguns which need to be broken in. This wouldn't be a pump or most hunting semi-auto shotguns.
A video about that is on the way!
im commenting before i see the test the ports will make zero difference they work for 50 caliber rifles but no change in a shotgun
Actually, they don't do anything for a 50 caliber rifle either. Unless it is a muzzle break with angled ports that use the gas to great force the pulls the gun away from the shower to lessen backward energy. A ported choke with the ports pointed straight out won't do anything for a shotgun, rifle, or even artillery, lol.
RIP to your shoulder 😬
Haha, this test wasn't bad at all compared to the turkey ammo videos when I do 3-4 in one day!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide can you do a video on 16 gauge for turkey hunting?
@@redbeastgaming130mm4 I'd love to. But the only 16 I have is an antique that doesn't work right. I'd have to find another one.
Good video. But I would be interested if there was a video where the same company has 2 choke tubes of the same constriction with one ported and one non ported to see if they pattern differently in a controlled test.
I JUST recorded that video! It is in line to release this summer.
I found an issue with the test…you were shooting and the humidity was wrong. Lol
Great video. Trust me, you can’t please everyone because of all the armchair quarterbacks out there. 🍻
Oh no! I forgot about the humidity. I can do it again if I have to....
Now, the spiciest shotshell I presently use are 1.5 ounce steel shotshells at 1500 fps (3.5”). I’ve shot them with both ported and non-ported choke tubes out of a Remington 870. I can’t tell any difference in recoil between choke tubes. What I can tell you is that the recoil feels very close to my .375 Remington Ultra Mag.
So, you said in your video that you could shoot boss all day, and your shoulder doesn't hurt. So I went shooting yesterday and after shooting 30 shells my shoulder hurts enough to be annoying. Are you saying that isn't supposed to happen, or I can stop that from happening. I ask because I usually shoot 200 rounds when I'm practicing in section. I use normal target loads.
In depends some on the payload, these are 2.75 shells. These are hunting loads, not target shells. No one is shooting 200 in a day in a hunting scenario.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide so the pain starts after 25. I shoot 200 during my secession. Should it hurt a little after 25.
@@dennisswroptr4382 These are hunting loads, not target, trap, skeet, or sporting clays loads. Most ranges will not even let you practice or compete with non toxic shot. That is not what these are for. They are duck hunting shells. You will never shoot 200 in a day. My comments were in context of the intended purpose of the shells. You can only take 6 ducks and a similar number of geese depending on season and location, with few exceptions for more. These are among the softest recoiling shells in the waterfowl hunting world. But they are still significantly more than target loads.
@The New Hunters Guide Sorry for the confusion. What i'm asking has nothing to do with duck hunting loads, but has everything to do with target Practicing loads. My question is does shooting twenty five target loads should that caused shoulder discomfort?
You look like your about to get knocked over every time lol Lean into it a bit my man haha
That's good advice.
That still isn’t a big payload or very fast. I have ported and non ported barrels for a 3.5” pump gun and there most certainly is a notable difference using 3.5” shells.
Ported barrels are a totally different story. I've done that test, and there is a notable and statistical difference. Those ports are placed and angled with the purpose of recoil mitigation, and it works. Choke tubes on the other hand do nothing.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide ok i will watch that one too. I have been bingeing your stuff, and surviving duck season.
@@bryanheimann5370 Joel's stuff is the best.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide it’s good. I tried a few chokes and the best pattern I have ever seen from a shotgun shooting steel was factory full choke in my Mossberg 835. As soon as he put the ported chokes on blast, I knew he was telling the truth.
Good info!
I can't remember which video it's in, but Surviving Duck Season did a lot of extensive testing on chokes. In one of the videos in the season, he said that ported chokes universally patterned worse than unported tubes. Here's the video where he tested over 40 chokes: ua-cam.com/video/oSV9iYCXKgI/v-deo.html
Thanks! Joel did a great video there. Best ever made on the subject. He also quoted my last recoil test when he was talking about recoil. I am planning some ported vs. unported choke pattern testing soon as well.
I'm watching it again, I forgot that he even referenced your other video.
@@wsock32dll Joel is the best. I think he has the best waterfowl channel on the platform. We've talked a few times. He's amazing.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Between your videos and his, I'm learning lots of new stuff. I'm mostly shooting clays, but it all connects.
@@wsock32dll Awesome!
spend your money on ammo and range time vs gadgets
That has been the mantra of my channel got years.
i know broken record but i swear on my bible my comp n choke on my cz 20 gauge kicks way less than the briley extended un ported. the chokes are competion 15000ths and mic out at .609. and pattern 100 percent into 40 inches at 60 yards . yea i know what a liar. but its true maybe your next video on comp n choke 20 gauge this is it. thankyou for your time. we appreciate your time and effort
Thanks so much for the input! I believe you, I just haven't found a way to quantify that yet.
All i use is Comp-N-Choke tubes in 3 different makes of shotguns & they shoot the tightest of patterns, plus less recoil.
100% AGREE.