[TF2] Tweaking TF2's Terrible Training
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- Опубліковано 11 лис 2022
- Some guy takes a tiny glance at TF2's training mode, only to take note of how trash and terrible the training is, thinking of tens of ways to tweak it.
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In before the video flops at 20k views. Shame. Also, before someone comments on me calling the Revolver a "bad weapon." It is... at least when compared to its direct upgrade the Diamondback, I don't like that system or "balance" but it is how it is. - Ігри
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3p1c tr1ck$tab at 7:34
epic!!!
Only 90 deaths for learning scout?
woowee
(real)
Wow, your so good at the game!!!!!!1!1!1
I love how the bombinomicon is far better at explaining things than Valve is
It’s also a lot simpler to explain one mechanic in 5 seconds than a whole ass game.
“BAU-ZU! You got a bomb in your head, now go get that wizard!”
@@minibotas9496 Medic be like : Here is an invulnerability for 8 seconds go shred thru some people
You're a bomb now, go run into a wizard!
@@minibotas9496 how do we have the same pfp
@@MrBallL0L it’s a cute drawing, how could we not?
To this day I can’t rack my brain as to why they stopped making class tutorials at 4 of them.
Were they so bad at making them they just forgot?
Did they stop out of fear of spreading more bad information such as turtling?
Were they fired as a result of making it, and everyone else was too scared to remove the tutorial and replace it because even coming close to it curses you with losing your frontal lobe?
There exists for sure a scrapped Medic training section as for the other classes, probably only the bare bones of them exist
Looking at the timing of updates coming out, the answer is clear-cut. They collectively thought writing tutorials and scripting bot scenes was boring and too much effort, until someone said "just make better players coach the new ones". Then they hastily developed half of a coaching system, pushed it to an update and called the new player issues solved.
@@jonkku now said coaching system is useless because valve removed it entirely from the menu screen, what a funny twist
@@durxg Removed it from the menu screen??
It's still there for me though.
@@acclipse9262 yeah it's still there, but it's broken as it only works on community servers, not casual mode.
God i wish that you could just see the tips per class whenever you feel like it.
In the stats page you can although I'm pretty sure they're randomized
@@SpaceGuyOnline Thoses ones you made are very well made trying putting on the workshop for people take thoses and use as sprays to help new players inside a match
@@SpaceGuyOnline yea ik its just that if they were by class it would be so much nicer.
I also had a idea about a in universe class ifle drawer of advice and abilities that you open and see and use since knowledge is power and getting smart is needed to be better. also, a class specific training map would be great, as well as something similar in nature to TR Wdalkway but as a official Valve made map(not, make Walkway official, but make TR Walkway like stuff official).
@@drivanradosivic1357 Very good idea
Fun fact, a photo about an official rocket jumper training field got leaked online a few years ago.
So Valve did indeed planned to update the training mode at some point:)
Oh I would like to see this for myself, what are some keywords that would help me search for it? (UA-cam might delete your link but feel free to try, just write the instructions on how to find the image separately from the direct link)
Wish that was made. Would be nice to have a good official map to practice rocket jumping on.
Valve never finishes anything.
@@TwistedFireX they are so good at that, they hasn't finished trolling their fans with the valve time. 😔
Never even left a source check
Having unlockable weapons that change playstyles significantly (like the Huntsman, Flare Gun, Chargin' Targe, etc) would be super useful for the tutorial. That's like the main draw of TF2 and shakes up the game quite a bit, why would Valve leave it out? I remember when I was new at the game and didn't know what unlockables were, I kept seeing Demos with swords charging at people and thought it was a base ability of the class. Since the concept of shields is never explained anywhere, I had no idea that you needed a separate item for it and thought there was just some hidden button you had to press while you had your melee out.
In the outro that I legit forgot to edit in I made mention of how the achievement weapons (which mainly comprise of the Ubersaw, Sandvich, Eyelander, Charge N Targe etc...) could be re-worked into a contract system like what we had for the Jungle Inferno weapons, teaching people what they do and rewarding them with the weapon "immediately" running than grinding achievements or praying for drop rng
Maybe if you get one of these unique unlocks you either get a small explanation pop-up of what they do or a tutorial, ofc the latter would be harder to make, but the former would be very easy and not time-consuming to create
@@pantuternik a stock weapons tutorial and a achievement unlocks tutorial would be great to have. Plus I also had a idea about free and premium user Contracts that are more about helping at learning the game and you get Mann Co store coins for it to buy stuff like war paints, strangefiers and so on. I even had a idea that Valve's Competitive could drop older crates, Mann Co keys as well as tools like strangefiers and depending on the season, unlocked Halloween crates and Smissmass tools sort of thing. IMO, Valve Com is actually Serious Casual, so give 6v6, 7v7, Highlander and cool items for rewards would work great as a play to win incentive, while Contracts also give a little play to win, and teach people cool stuff as well.
i also got confused why i wouldnt charge because i didnt know how even tho i didnt have a shield
I like the way the first tutorial's second section was made and wish most of it would be taught in a similar way, instead of in the vacuum of that shooting range. Like, maybe even incorporate that shooting range into some other maps and start the training in there, and then move on to a demonstration with other classes.
For example, Engineer tutorial starts in the training room, and then a door opens and you appear in the cave spawn on Upward, where you're shown a bunch of teammates attacking some enemies on the second point, and they run out of ammo and say "need a dispenser here" and you're shown a good dispenser spot in the cave exit. Then, after you build it they all say "thanks and go on with their business as you're told to place a sentry to guard the cave so that you can hold your position. And this can go on with some other things happening, but I'd like this practical way of teaching more.
After all, Engineer solves practical problems.
That’s such a nice way of teaching engineer, I especially like how you provided reasons as to why the buildings should be placed, it teaches new players the value of the buildings and how their purposes can be incorporated into an in-game style situation.
Theres actually an unused dustbowl level dedicated to spy. Its mostly funtional but the text for the text boxes are missing. I believe the way you access it is play the Spy tutorial and use the console to load up tr_dustbowl.
you may think that valve teaching engies to turtle is bad, but at the very least they are tought how to be a mild annoyance, your average f2p med will take a solid 15 minutes to figure out that they have a medigun since they are never told so
Maybe they should be told both ways. After all, an easily accessible dispenser gives you the ability to tank your sentry pretty well.
@@pantuternik Maybe a text box saying “Having a dispenser near your sentry gun can greatly help with maintaining it, but it can also attract the attention of Spies and Demomen that can easily destroy both, so remember to take a look at the enemy team when building!” It teaches both turtling and more aggressive engineering, while telling you what classes can destroy your nest
Fun fact: You can use the setclass command in console to forcibly change off soldier in this tutorial with no negative effects save for janky messed up text box hints!
Fun fact: doing the "go go go" voice line will also make a bot medic use their übercharge
...yeah that's all I got...
Bruh
The "Go Go Go" voice line and not the "Use Ubercharge" voice line
@@nickrl113both will make Bot use Uber
I wonder why after all this time no one has made some kind of modded tutorial that teaches the essentials of all 9 classes, aswell as the rules of every game mode.
I know TF2 is basically only run by the community at this point, but no new players will know how to navigate the clunky server browser to find rocket jump training or other such tools.
1 solid tutorial overhaul mod that's easy to download the community could endorse and promote heavily for new players to find would do wonders for the games.
No clue if this would be even possible but crazier things have been done.
Vscript being added makes this significantly more possible now.
@@Underqualified_Gunman what does Vscript do?
I mean if it helps people make mods for this game than great, this is just the first I've heard of it
@@theclassyviking7351 allows mapper to access game code more limited than making a new mod but more powerful than the existing hammer entities.
@@theclassyviking7351 to give an example of it being used someone on the TF2 maps server is remaking VSH in Vscript
@@Underqualified_Gunman what's VSH?
I feel like compiling everything in a bit match might be better. As you said with the sniper, demo, pyro examples but simply seeing a scout double jump above you, bumping into a spy somewhere, spy checking because a teammate pointed out a spy just to find that it was one of your teammates, heavy doing mostly the point and all with text boxes would be interactive and amazing for teaching the player and would get a general idea of the classes.
Perhaps there could be 10 training sessions. One where they compile all the classes into a match, like you suggest, and then the remaining sessions go more in-depth on each individual class.
After all, while you can show a soldier rocket jumping, the player could still use some practice of their own. As well as for other classes.
@@lamegamertime imo I feel like getting the player a gist and then say have fun is a better way as then the player choose what they want to learn after that point. As there is still bot matches you can just jump into they can simply test them out after the game holds their hand for a short while. Personally I’m not a big tutorial guy so I feel like freeing the player quicker is needed to get the player not just stop because of boredom. I get where you’re coming tho.
@@redshell9205 Well, the entire tutorial is optional. Players just play the first session, and if they're interested in one of the classes then they can do their tutorial.
@@lamegamertime sorry that I’m late but a lot of other people start with tutorials, and also when I feel like I want to learn more about a character in a game I’m new to and choose to use the in game tutorial… often I just find everything there is stuff I already know. And anyway the rocket jumping tutorial can just be in the bot match.
@@redshell9205 Sure, the general tutorial _could_ teach rocket jumping, but soldier is not the only class who could use hands-on demonstration. Medic, engineer, and spy in particular.
And the issue of you already knowing the information can be fixed by the game teaching stuff players wouldn't know... Though...tutorials are made for people who don't know anything about the subject matter...
A “movement” tutorial covering crouch jumping, explosive jumping, and fall damage all together in an obstacle course could work too.
The worse thing for a new player is learning hitreg is bad and needing configs. I have over 2000 hours and tried many configs and I still can't seem to fix hitreg where I can even reliably use hitscan.
interp issue
"Wake up babe, the space man just posted"
"but it's 3am..."
I swear, tf2ubers are the few things single handedly pumping this game's heart.
Now that Vscript is being introduced into the game anyone who cared enough could be able to fix theses most of theses issues and post his training courses on the official Github.
Now all we need is a guy with enough patience and dedication.
8:16 I'll argue that random crits cannot be explained at all, even most experienced players will yell "WHAT WAS THAT?"
For the first year or so when I installed tf2, I did nothing but play against bots. I never went into pubs, just bots. Besides some bad habits, I’d say it paid off. But playing with players is the best way to learn the nuance of this game, naturally.
Training: "Press E to call for healing"
*F2P's: ....*
To be fair, the f2p Silencing didn't happen until 2020, 10 years after the tutorials were made
I feel like the TF2 tutorials were made just for the sake of having a tutorial.
Valve should hire you to write class descriptions, those were bloody on point.
Can’t help imagining a ideal tutorial where its presented as a Class clone in a fancier hat teaches you how your class plays in the bunker, having the occasional enemy class “sneak in” for relevant mechanics, then concludes with a game mode best suited for the class with a few scripted bot placements and behaviors. The spy’s tutorial starts in the enemy bunker.
"Press E to tell a medic to heal you"
*voice communication not available for this account*
I would honestly have heavy be the basic training. He's the easiest to use in casual, but also the most basic.
For the most part, I'd have the player learn the class, though learning basics with the heavy...
Then recreate a scene from their meet the teams, to let the player FEEL like they got an understanding of the class.
That's actually genius, classes tutorials that recreate the Meet The Team videos would be insane
Ok, two things I'd recommend for Sniper:
1. Moving target practice where, after the initial overview of charge times and class health, the target bots start moving along prerecorded but very erratic paths.
2. Basic spacial awareness training, where a spy bot decloaks behind you while you're scoped in and doesn't do anything but gives you an example of why constantly staying scoped is a bad idea.
saw you while you got the medic footage. i swear next time ill make sure you dont walk away because of my poor aim
Should have accepted that duel since I got you with the Syringe
@@SpaceGuyOnline you dominated me too then left i was so upset lol
fun fact: found in the recent leak of TF2, there was found several training maps, with several things left out of modern training, including teaching players how to rocket jump and more
Someone should make a tutorial map on the workshop that goes over all of this. Kind of like the campaign maps some people make.
And then just get it added to as many tutorial steam guilds/UA-cam videos as possible.
You really like your alliterations, dont you?
"quebec instead of full-on france" omg perfect line
When playing on the 2nd part of Dustbowl in the training mode, there is a chance all the blu bots will get stuck in the corner of Spawn leaving you to face all the red bots alone.
There are glass shards in my arm
I seriously have no memory of writing this whatsoever wtf?
great video, great editing, love it :D
I think some achievements works as tutorials
"Batter up" incentives you to double jump more often
"Bomb squaddie" teaches you to remove stickies with shotguns
"Hot shot"/"hot potato" incentives you to reflect
"Highland fling" teachs you about sticky jump
And many more
And also the loading screen tips can help you realize some stuff
But the tutorials, yeah, they are done poorly
Loading screen tips should always be a "Oh" sorta deal not a key gameplay fundamental.
Achievements are good to see your progress but they aren't good at actually teaching you how to progress, this is especially true when most people tend hop on givemeall servers
i think "highland fling" should be renamed to "the flying scotsman" since then it would also refrence a piece of history but yeah these achievements would be really cool
Fun fact, didnt even know there was a training mode for tf2 until after half a year of playing it already. Everything i learned up to that point was me in casual matches.
Ive been playing since 2019 and didnt know spies could teleport through enemy teleporters until 4 months ago
Surprised no one in the community workshop made a dedicated tutorial map to show what you are supposed to do
I'll always say it, but TF2 is great for long time players/veterans even those who played back then only to get back into now since atleast you still have all your stuff from the past. But as a newcomer, someone new to Valve games or even just TF2 in general it is below average and it's a shame since this game has had ALOT of updates, yet none of them improve/add on to the tutorials and with a game with so many weapons + 9 classes that play very differently from each other would 100% be a nobrainer thing to add.
People can hate on Overwatch all they want but atleast that game has tutorials + a training map to welcome new players.
Quake:Live aswell has great tutorials with 1 v 1 bots, rocket jumping, bhops, strafe jump etc all you need to know about Quake is there (some of it atleast)
It's a shame since Valve is known for having games that almost anyone can pick up, play and finish with Half Life 2 and Portal being a big example. I feel this is goes to show how much Valve really doesn't like TF2 despite it being a game that helped them rise into fame.
loved the video! especially the description of heavy, +1 sub!
12:11 Glad to see my DM has re-joined your patreon. Was worried when he fell off for a while.
Random Ben 10 Ultimate Alien Cosmic Destruction reference is greatly appreciated, thank you
Finally good tutorial Thanks
I previously didn't liked this channel because of the awful audio it was, But now I'm here subscribed, like button broken, and really proud of how far you've gotten.
Great work man
When I started TF2 I haven't watched any vids about the game on YT prior, only the Meet the Team vids on Steam page, and that somehow gave me enough knowledge to do a proper first match in Practice Mode, haven't even done all the class courses
And for a first match it went really good, knew how to hide stickies, kept in mind Heavy's revup, even knew when to watch out for Spies and use Medic's Syringe Gun effectively, only didn't know how to upgrade the buildings, but already knew which building did what and how I should place them, even knew how to remove Sappers
The only part that took some time to get used to is unlockables, that one should definetly be explained, that is the only part that made me WM1 since it's like "Oh cool a new weapon it has to be better!" when you get your first one
It's rather sweet to see Space is getting better at editing/constructing videos :)
And during the medic tutorial, there should never be a mention of a syringe gun being a thing that exists.
I wasn't expecting the Quebec comparison lmao
The tutorial reeks of 'Oh right, we should probably finish making that' vibes.
With the Medic in particular, it doesn't help that there is no HUD element that communicates that a hurt teammate will give you faster uber. A lot of TF2's mechanics aren't just unexplained; they're almost invisible.
I have played tf2 for a month now and I did not know what crouch jumping was until you mentioned it
I personally think that some of the meet the team videos, such as Meet The Medic, Meet The Soldier, Meet The Spy, Meet The Sniper and Meet The Heavy to some extend, could be used as lessons for new players.
heh, i was looking for a vid like this a while back
thanks recommended!
Left4Dead 2 has an unofficial tutorial campaign made by the community. tr_walkway is honestly not a good tutorial map, a good training map. But to teach players the unique abilities of each class, a similar endeavor as to what happened with the L4D2 community, has to take place.
I think the reason there isn’t info on rocket jumping in soldier training is because they had a planned rocket jump planning map but it was cut
I was genuinely thought that the video was explaining TF2's Terrible"Trading"
literally the moment i went back to check on the training mode this video popped up
Hurtling in a cheeky spot is only fun when you get to do it like with the eureka effect wrench
Did he just accidentally make a parody of "We didn't start the fire" just by naming TF2 techniques?
lol, as a medic main i feel that lack of medic tutorial
i think that a medic tutorial should be split into:
how the medigun works: showcasing the medibeam's range, ability to match target's speed, debuff reduction time and well, healing
ubercharge: uber rate (injured enemies vs applying overheal vs full overheal, also introducing this function) activating uber (uber duration/flashing teammates)
and last and least a section to teach medic's actual effectiveness, by placing the player on a fight to show how shitty medic stock primary and melee are)
as a new player this video taught me way more than the tutorials ever did (also i never knew there was a second part in the tutorials? i wonder how i managed to skip over that lol)
i really do wish there was a better tutorial system though. i didn't even learn how to crouch jump until i played Half-Life last week.
3:10 yep, 600+ hours and I had no idea that was a thing
have each tutorial go over each classes basic ability eg have scout double jump over a fence, soldier rocket jump over a gap, pyro reflect a rocket etc etc and lock casual and comp til they are all completed. this will give new players enough of a push in the right direction where they can play the classes somewhat effectively while also slowing down bots from ruining casual by a whole 5 mins
While I agree the tutorial system needs to be improved, I must admit there’s a special kind of serotonin hit I got whenever I figured out something like rocket jumping or damage surfing way back in 2013 when I first started playing. Learning on the fly can be really fun too for new players; so long as said players don’t expect to win every time
For like a good minute i thought it said "twerking tf2's terrible training"
I think some good examples could be easily and quickly implemented for Medic.
You could have to heal multiple teammates to max overheal, but have the last one be a disguised spy who undisguises once they’re healed to naturally teach the player to watch out for spies.
You could have situations where ubercharge is required e.g. having to push through a spammed chokepoint with a soldier, and being surrounded by other classes and having to escape without dying
When the game was part of the physical release of the Orange Box, it actually had a manual that explained the unique abilities of each class. Remember game manuals? No? Damn I'm old...
the reason why rocket jumping isn't brought up in the tutorials is because it wasn't an intentional mechanic it was an embraced bug
still should have it added though
This isn't true for TF2 though, if Quake were to have a tutorial than it would be since that's when Rocket Jumping was first "invented."
You're essentially neglecting how TFC had the ability to Rocket Jump deliberately or how the Beta TF2 trailers also make heavy mention and use of it
@@SpaceGuyOnline I need to do research lol
If you want more evidence of rocket jumping being intended, the Soldier rocket jumps in the Meet The Soldier video, which came out before the game's release.
@@SpaceGuyOnline oh shit, THAT'S why it's called the original
the tutorial is the literal definition of "the tutorial you have to do even though you know how to play the game already"
FINALLY, I’ve been crying over this for a long time
to be fair, i only did 1/8th of the training video. it takes too long to load, and i could just watch the meet the team videos or watch tf2bers
Judging by the background music, there is some seriously common overlap between TF2 and PMD players, and I appreciate it greatly.
i think the heavy should also have their own section for the sandvich, considering how it is PARAMOUNT in most heavy loadouts, and considering how the item is big enough to warrant having it's own meet the team video. just a basic tutorial telling you to try and use the sandvich in safe spots, and a small section dedicated to giving the sandvich to teammates (such as your pocket medic) would be fine. i think in general that introductions for unlocks would be nice for most of the classes that have major ones, like the demoman's swords and shields, the engineer's gunslinger, and other such weapons that change a large part of your gameplay in terms of the class alone.
I think the training segment is an unfinished project that was shipped out, having to teach every strength, weakness, quirk of every class aside from bugs (Looking at trickstabs) would take longer and would probably into the spaghetti code. So we just have this one :/
Map Collab Contest Idea:
Remake a tutorial based off one of the nine classes that covers the basics. An optional 10th one can also be done for general misc information (unlocks, objectives, etc)
Honestly I'm surprised that they didn't add more tutorials and only 4. I can understand not giving one to Sniper Or Heavy for being mechanically simple, maybe Pyro too depending on if tutorial was released before Pyro got airblast.
This still leaves Scout and Medic.
Just recently finally made my first trick stab, its so satisfying and I recently also go my first major chain stab of 5 people.
9:44 I'd change it to "most projectiles" since it would probably confuse newer player with not being able to reflect the syringe gun needles, bison shots, pompson shots, and Halloween spells.
"the engineer tutorial gives out incorrect information" *shows image of the engineer tutorial giving correct information*
The dispenser needle displays metal available not ammo available as the tool tip says.
I get its kinda nitpicky but thinking as a new player you'd probably question why everyone can still get ammo if it's "empty"
@@SpaceGuyOnline I thought the ammo and metal supply in the dispenser were the same thing? the more you know, i guess
The loading screen tips are probably a better tutorial than the actual tutorial
3:08 using the "Go go go" voice line also makes them pop, which is how I figured out you could do this
I also noticed the tutorial telling you to call for Medic when valve made them unable to do so.
Also, I think that showing people what the spy looks like from 3rd person ehen doing his stuff could be a good way to teach them. If the bot mirrored your movements instead and there was both a friendly and an unfriendly spy it would probably teach you even more and allow you to play as and against the class better.
That was a change made literally a few months ago and doesn't have anything to do with the other 12 years the training section has been out for
@@SpaceGuyOnline I know but it would still be frustrating for s new player.
Also alongside the things I edited in the comment I want to mention how you did not mention airblast having a knockback effect or comboing.
Wait you can use enemy dispensers when you're disguised? Who thought the video on how trash tutorials are actually teaches something the tutorial doesn't?
i actually played this when i started playing tf2, wierdly the other tutorials don't work and the dustbowl part also doesn't work, i have read that issue on others too
To be entirely fair, Rocket and Sticky jumping were never meant to be in the game, It was a bug until everyone begged for it to stay.
Also thanks for letting me know I can do the voiceline for bots.
I'd love to see someone make some new and improved training maps as a mod for the game, done in the style of the original tutorial. If I actually knew how to use the hammer editor, I would've done it myself.
One gripe I have about the meet the Pyro video is they put the flare gun in it even though it's a separate unlock
It's sad how even Half Life 1 itself had a proper obstacle course tutorial, *with* the crouch jump explained and required to progress!
Also using the "go go go" voice lines make medic bots use uber.
SpaceGuyOnline is the king of alliteration
The reason engies put their sentry and dispenser next to eachother has nothing to do with that tutorial, I can reasonably promise 90% of players haven't gone through the tutorial. It's just a reasonable assumption when taken without context of how the game works.
Also, to answer your question: spy is who doesn't have autoreload on right now lol
5:30 whoa, casual francophobia 💀
That's right Denver, you've been Dadded! No-one is safe😎
Literally played the game longer than the training mode has existed and didn't know you could use the voiceline to get a medic bot to pop.
Hey mate some sfm stuff for you
I see that you still have green stuffs around your guys during the titlecard esque segment,
You can turn the map brightness down in your camera settings and then putting a green screen behind them should put 2 conpletely contrasting colors with nothing inbetween.
Exporting both the contrasted version and the actual version and then putting them both together will let you just lasso only the background color and then cut it on the real part giving you a much more crisp and sharp outline.
For the longest time, I thought that uncloaking was colorless so I would run into the enemy team and decloak and then wonder why I died.
I feel like the trqining mode should give a reward at the end a mannco box
That will unbox any hat or weapon for teach you what a mannco box is but key is not tradable the unbox stuff cant be strange or unusual and will always be a non craftable hat
350 Hours in the game,
Did NOT know about the medic-bot uber with voiceLine
cool video basedguyonline, now go drink your maple syrup
Liquid Gold man, don't even diss real Maple Syrup
I feel bad for my friend who I tried to get into TF2 had to play through such a crappy half-assed training mode that barely taught her anything useful because she didn't get to learn much or any of it at all.
Honestly there's a lot of stuff myself I've had to learn on my own or through others in the community. I was fortunate enough to at least have a friend (who'd gotten me into the game) coach me on the basics to get me started, and also a time when he helped me learn crouch jumping. But aside from that yeah had to pretty much learn by myself. This game has a lot of complexities that no average player would even know where to start with. It's really a shame that TF2's training mode barely scratches the surface.
Another thing I feel should go in a Heavy tutorial is how one can hold Mouse2 to stay revved up, and knowing when to unrev your minigun.