Dustbowl lobbies go like this: 1st area: The 1st cap gets taken quite quickly, unless Red team is spawncamping. In which case, Blue team has effectively lost. If the second isn't capped immediately afterward the 1st cap is capped, the Blue team has effectively lost. 2nd area: No matter how good Blue team is, it will always be a walk through hell just trying to even leave the small mines at the start. Even if Blue speedrun cap the first point, Red will still have time to respawn and set up defenses on the final cap. This is where many Dustbowl games usually end. 3rd area: If the Red team has a phlog and/or kritz demo, then Blue has lost. If Red isn't doing this then Blue still has to chew through heavy defenses and sentry nests just to get the 1st cap. Final cap is hell no matter what side you're on, Red has to fight for control of the bridge connecting the control point to the rest of the map, while Blue has to maintain control of the corridor just outside of the CP's viewpoint. If Red pushes them out, then Blue has effectively lost all staging power and has to burn time getting ready again. TL;DR: The map is basically Stalingrad for Blue team
The sheer hell the Blue team has to go through to cap is why the round-timer is so long, because, with all that against them, they're going to need that 26 minutes to cap.
Wierdly this is why i like it. no matter what, there's lots of chaotic action, and if you stick around for more than "well we won/lost on defense." or "well we won/lost on attack" you'll most likely have a chance to win no matter what. Essentially: no matter what, both teams end up steamrolled, even if they win.
@@antirevomag834 And that's mostly why people love the map so much, and why everyone plays it. Despite it's extremely bad flaws, it's objectively defender sided chokepoints, bad spawns and hilariously bad map design, the map is extremely fun, because despite everyone KNOWING that's it bad, they still play it and enjoy it like any other map anyways. And also because of the amount of chaos that happens, all the pills and rockets exploding left and right, teammates yelling and dying, mini guns brrring, sentry guns beeping, Medic's ubering, scorch flares and Sniper rounds grazing by, buff banners conch shells and backup horns being blown, Spy mains screaming in anger, all of it happening in tightly packed corridors and hallways.
If blu doesn't have a competent Engineer to build teles it loses automatically 90 percent of the time Seriously, I hate people who go Engie and don't build teles. If you do this, do the world a favor and uninstall
Reminds me of Powerhouse. I have unironically had 4 hour rounds multiple times in the past due to the no time limit. Then they added the 10 minute limit. Ngl, I kinda miss the no time limit.
The amount of time BLU has on this map is compensated by RED's veeery advantageous positions and ease of defending. BLU needs multiple coordinated charges to breach RED and thus the time was added. The problem is that Valve never bothered to fix/modify the map to lower the number of chokes and give more flanking routes so in theory RED is guaranteed to win just by their defensive advantage. And no, if you see BLU win is usually because RED team has very bad players. Everytime BLU wins the first 3 stage round, once they are on RED they defend almost always the first and second stage last points successfully.
In a lot of shooter games the training bots are really bad and easy to beat even on the hardest difficulties, but for some reason TF2 has bots that can be as horrible to face as actual aimbots in game.
and boy oh boy once you aim a sniper at any of them they will just instantly forget everything and tunnelvision you, even if you take cover then come back out they still shoot you unwarranted this time
I really like dustbowl because of how bad it is, it's a great map for when you want to turn off your brain and just enjoy nice long rounds without worrying about objectives. just run in a straight line and kill what's in front of you
I know that Dustbowl may be objectively bad but it's honestly one of the maps that i have the most fun on. It was even the first map I played. The majority of the community hates it but the people that you meet on there makes it one of my favorite maps.
On paper, dustbowl is worse than hot garbage. However, in practice the fires of virtual war make to forge friendships that, while fleeting, always leave a mark on those who were there to make them.
I remember the other team taking forever to make the first cap in dustbowl and once they did they got 20 minutes to make the second ca, some guy in chat was like "that was only world war 1"
10:23 You forgot to mention that the building here has a window specifically for bouncing Demoman pipes in. It doesn't work *much,* but it's there on purpose. It was probably more useful when every class had grenades, since they definitely did when this map was designed. Edit: Now that I think about it, this map makes a lot more sense if you imagine everyone having grenades. Still sounds terrible in my head, but that would help with some of the choke spots...
@@terrypennington2519 I probably did, but I've never given it any attention or thought, and just imagined that it was for decoration, as such a small room would need a window of some kind for people to breathe and sunlight to enter.
Its been awhile, but with the grenades in TFC being included I do remember it going way faster compared to tf2. Also capping points in that game was mostly instant so the final area was a lot more difficult to uphold. Many of the classes were also far more mobile (scouts/medics can conc-jump, demo's and soldiers can still pipe/rocket jump, everyone had grenades which was risky to jump from but its still mobility, and b-hopping existed).
@@Blitz1Blacktail1 In TFC it took a while to get through the tiny tunnels because they were spammed by red. You had to get sniper to be lucky and get a charged shot on a sentry. Or try to get through it as a spy and throw nades on them. Also capturing a point was done with a flag. Once the flag touched the point, you won the section. With a good conc or nade jump you were also able to capture the point before the sentry guns were able to shoot you. But of course 90%+ of the players weren't skilled enough for that.
@@BulletSponge71436 I like min viewmodels, I think they're great. But, hey, I understand if you want your weapon to cover the entire right side of your screen. i wish you good luck.
@@Cave-w9x If you think that default weapon viewmodels cover entire right side of the screen - you're stupid or on drugs. That's your choice if you want to play the game in such a shitty way.
@@BulletSponge71436 To be fair, it largely depends on the weapon. I never really cared for it until A. People stared complaining about it and B. I tried to reload the pomson which does actually take up 65% of the screen
Never have i been so offended by something I 100% agree with. This is actually my third favorite map, after Goldrush and Harvest. But i understand why people hate it. 😅 Edit: this is my first TF2 map and the reason i main Medic.
@@ryanrong495 the first map i played was mountain lab, even when playing the game for the first time, i already knew how bs it was to take a full minute to cap the first point the second point was where i found out how much i loved sniper, that overhead rock bridge was a very good place for snipers to roam, and on defense, the second point with the house was a good place to camp as sniper, pretty sure i got my first headshot at that point the third point is where i discovered the power of explosive classes, that central point and red spawn gave me the adrenaline i needed to get a total of 3 kills in a single life, the new record
This map on TF Classic had a different objective: carry the flag to the control point. Most TFC servers used to have 16 players at most (think at the connection speeds back in late 90's), so it was good for what it was designed for.
@@turkishjanitor3666 how does uncle Dane think payload and capture points are so good? I end up getting really mediocre kill death ratios and due it being very strict, cuz the entire team working together, very likely to see very skilled players, and needing to give out your max if you want to extend your survivality to do something
@@user-nf2es5xv5w I mean... probably from having fun playing the game for reasons other than K/Ds? People can in fact have fun trying to be helpful to the team's overall goal, and considering Uncle Dane is in fact an Engie Main, it stands to reason that he would have more enjoyment on the kinds of maps where that kind of support is helpful. Would need more data to verify, but that'd be my read on the matter.
In responses there are going to be people who also need to understand this. Well designed maps may or may not be fun maps. 2fort and Turbine are terribly designed maps but are super fun for that, like how playing a bad game with your friends may still be fun. See this mostly through a competitive view, I can only assume Space Guy also knows this. He may already have put it in the video, but I haven't watched it all the way.
high tower is the perfect example of this. is it balanced, well designed or in any shape or form objectively good? hell no! but it sure is fun as hell, so fun in fact that some servers will ban you for even trying to play the objective, which doesn't really matter because nobody ever wins on high tower even if the whole team is try hards.
Dustbowl is one of my favorites especially as a start Something about holding a defense on third point for 20 minutes as engineer or medic is just intense
Monkey's Delivery Service is a symbolic music track because the level of animal abuse in Mother 3 is comparable to the mental abuse of players forced to play Dustbowl.
Fun fact: I managed to win Blu Round 1 of Dustbowl singlehandedly in the space of about a minute. When I spawned, after my latest death, playing Scout, I managed to get behind enemy lines to the first point where, oddly, there were no Engies set up. I capped that point before Red knew I was there, and ran all on my lonesome to the second point where, again, no Engies. Since no one was around thanks to the entire Red team being up by my spawn, I capped that point in seconds. No one, not even my own team, figured out what had happened until we were on the next section
I've never played or seen a game of Dustbowl that didn't last 3 rounds. But personally I like that, me and my team started this sisapheian task together and there's no way in he'll were stopin now. It's a weird sort of comradary thing.
When I hear that some maps in tf2 are too long my first thought is about Dustbowl, and I compare this map (and 2fort) to maps like Blood Gulch, Derail, and other large scale fps maps. My thinking usually makes me think of one map as the whole map pool in a broad term, when really, it isn't, I just played it a ton as a new player and expect the other maps to be this tight, closed, claustrophobic experience with a lot of chokepoints and not many advantages to the other team. I can type about how trying to get last point is like trying to play Silver Surfer for the NES, but I had this thing to get out of my mind.
@@alaeriia01 The problem is the size for me. I like to have some breathing room so that I don't feel like I'm forced to go places. I know a lot of TF2's map design is about getting you to the objective, but still it doesn't feel like there's one place to go for many maps. Look at Upward, and more specifically the cave section before you reach the next checkpoint. You got three different ways to go, the most chokepointy and direct route, the mine exit, and cliff exit. They don't just put you to the same place they give you a little bit of an option, like with the mine exit gives you the high ground, or cliff is the most definition version of a Flank route. For both teams they got their own forms of "safe spaces", where people can take a rest to get health, ammo, or just to think about what's happening, if 2fort and Dustbowl there is none, wither one team has a safe space on Dustbowl or 2fort has the most direct flank route that gets you to the same area you wanted to be. on Dustbowl every flank Route gets you to the same place or a less undesirable place, and at some times, no flank route., like on the penultimate point. I want breathing room, I want flank routes, and for me Hightower is the best deathmatch map because of it.
Hey I know the server at the beginning of the video! It's called Nemu's Stomping Ground, and it has a fun gamemode called "Engineer Fortress" where the entire RED team is engineer bots.
@@sugaryhull9688 It depends on how many people and how coordinated they are. The more people that join the server, the less bots there are. However normally you don't encounter a really coordinated team anyway lol, at least from my experience.
I play Dustbowl since TFC times. It's supposed to be incredibly hard for BLU to win. The spam is by design and it was toned down A LOT in TF2. It was also one of the most popular maps back then, which is why Valve ported it to TF2.
15:40 Not to mention if Blu managed to get a sentry on that walkway the games over. There's very few spots Red can go to corner peak it, it covers the point and the entire bridge, and the fence there shields like half the sentry
@@andybogdan4380 Eventually, plan is to do 3 classes and then a map or a class then a map or so, alternating between them. Series is more so why people don't like certain aspects of things within TF2 however, not exactly a map review but I could perhaps extend it to that.
I honestly love Dustbowl, it's intense as fuck The map being chokepoint hell means no matter where you go there's always 6 or 7 enemies in your face, it being so easy to defend means Blu team has to go all out to make progress, and the sheer pressure being applied by both sides means that there's hardly ever a dull moment on either team, as any second another 6v6 could break out
Dustbowl was the biggest casualty of instant respawn/increased population servers, which only got more prevalent with time. Skial servers were being played on in a lot of this footage and to my memory they implemented both at one point or another (certainly increased capacity just from watching some of this). Typically, both of those features will benefit RED in a map with close quarters, since (1) adding further pressure to a bottleneck is never going to be as effective as its counterpart's resistance in tandem and (2) they can Zerg-defend the final cap in a pinch. The same is true in reverse with open maps, which is why BLU tends to get such insane momentum on Gravelpit if there's >30 players. Sometimes I'm in the mood for a deadlock but on the whole I always wished there were more reliable servers that didn't mess with the game's balance.
Dustbowl 3rd stage tunnel feels like its a flank route alright. For RED. Cause it leads straight behind the usual enemy forward hold, letting anyone slip behind to go take care of their tele's or just suprise em with a pocketed phlog or demoman.
Winning dustbowl comes down to: 1. Does blu back-cap on stages 1 and 2 2. Which team actually bothers to walk forward when ubercharged during the 20 minute shitfest of stage 3 3. Literally nothing else
The thing with Dustbowl is that it's an old map from an era where online multiplayer was more organized and less open, dating as far back as the original Team Fortress. You could get away with map elements that necessitated the use (or disuse) of classes because the people playing were generally friends who played together regularly and were willing to make class changes as needed. I feel like matchmaking has massively changed TF2's team dynamics, not for the better or worse, but just to something significantly different from what it was originally designed for.
I only queue dustbowl and I play with the same 30 people every day. Sometimes a new player joins the lobby and doesnt understand dustbowl culture. You spawn trap the attackers until the timer is up then you let them cap so you can go back to spawn trapping them.
I would just like to point out that the original intended use of the shed next to blu spawn was probably so that when blu is pushing their way through, and red is further back near the point, blu can use the shed as a temporary safe spot, plus the full health kit being there in case someone takes too much damage and there isnt a medic around that can help at tne moment. Sometimes you have to look at these things as how they can both be utalized by each respective teams standpoint, because only then is it really okay to determine a clear answer.
The defenders and attackers alternate between being straight up advantageous, and the loading times + setup time in between levels is just annoying. Usually games take way too long
Honestly, I love your originality and unique style with alliterations at the start of evey episode and your running joke at the start of a video of the commentator replacing a certain character with numbers. It's very refreshing and unique. Really make you stand out, plus its funny.
mate you deserve way more subscribers, it's the second time you've appeared in my feed and the second time i've clicked on a video of yours. You're going to make it big bro, trust me
It is always an good feeling when you get a fast round of dustbowl (only happens when you play scout and the enemy team does not know where to put their sentry's)
a fast round of dustbowl will 100% mean the teams were not balanced and the game would have been a stomp regardless of map. and that's part of an issue, unless the tteams are horribly missmatched dustbowl is always either a stomp or a 30+ min slugfest.
I like to think that Dustbowl, and every other old map that has been there since the launch of the game, made sense only in the early days of TF2. I mean, if you count that demoman grenades would explode on contact with every enemy building/player even if they bounced on a wall back then, pyro had no airblast, engie could not move buildings nor upgrade anything outside sentry, and kritz medic didn't exist to make spawncamp the monster it is now, and beta had grenades for classes too, I think with all that in mind the map makes way more sense. Also this shelter in 3:59 is perfect to build a dispenser and make spawncamp even more hellish :V
Great video man, I’ve never been able to oaky the modern version of tf2 on pc and most my childhood was instead on the orange box ps3 version and the only maps we had were like 2fort and dustbowl. I used to get so frustrated at the poor way these set of maps were designed and looking at it from your clever point of view has really put it into perspective of what makes good map design ! Thanks mate
I have 7000 hours on TF2. And I'm positive at least 75% of that time has been played on DB. Both my best and worst memories from TF2 come from this map alone, and I regret absolutely nothing
Oddly enough, I can't seem to win on this map even as an Uber medic on the RED team. Whenever I play BLU, we can cap until the last point and NOTHING will break their defenses, but then when the tables turn, by that part of the map, SOMEHOW a pair of scouts managed to BONK their way by everyone, and even when I saw and called them out, NOBODY would go kill them, so when we all due and they cap the first point, OOP, there's the two scouts instantly capping the final point cause NOBODY chose to turn around.
I think it's fun because of how long the matches are, when you play a full one it's like having the community server experience condensed into an hour of play
Just a reminder that dustbowl was a map for tfc a game where most maps has on average 0 health packs outside of spawn and spawn rooms has undestructible lvl4 sentry gun but to be fair you have to somehow get in the enemy spawn to trigger it wich was possible btw before the round ends
I was an admin on a Dustbowl only server for years, and I have more hours on it than most people have in TF2. It can be difficult for BLU to push, but many times it is because of the way some people play. The key advantage BLU has is that their spawn time is always 3 secs while RED's can be three or more times that depending on some hidden mechanics in the map code. BLU players overly concerned with K/D ratios will drag their team down. To break the spawn camps on the beginning of the stages, BLU has to be very aggressive and willing to sacrifice for the good of the team. On stage 2 , for instance, I've seen players start to push out of the cave at the start, take a little damage and spend 10 seconds running back to the spawn cabinet to fill their health. It is faster to keep pushing and go for a kill on a RED player. If you live, you may be able to get to the health packs in the shed. If you die, its only a 3 sec respawn, much faster than taking 10 secs to run back. While you run back, RED is doing the same thing with health packs closer than the spawn cabinet. Better to stay and try to finish them off and force a long RED respawn. No one but you cares about your K/D, and no one will remember it when the next game or round starts. No one is going to Dustbowl servers to recruit for their comp team. Push out and risk dying a few times at the start. Eventually you will make progress and the caps will come easier. The longer you give RED to build and gel as a team, the harder that push gets. Be aggressive. The first guy running out will draw most of the attention of RED players and their sentries, if other BLU follow out, they will get opportunities to get kills and take down sentries. Follow your ubers out. Teleporters are also very important to pressing the spawn time advantage that BLU has. Teleporters need to be built as soon as possible and they need to be built as far forward as they safely can when pushing for second points to maximize that respawn advantage.
I used to love playing on Dustbowl back in the day on the Orange Box (mostly because only 2Fort/Dustbowl were only ever available), and after all of the countless updates and balance changes I played maybe 1 game of this a couple years ago and vowed never to touch it again
I love how as soon as uncle Dane made a video about dust bowl now everyone is making a video on dust bowl I love dust bowl cause I’m restricted to the 2007 console version of tf2 WICH HAS A LIVING BREATHING COMMUNITY TOO VALVE WE HAVENT HAD AN UPDATE SINCE 2007
@@nathancollins1715 I don’t have any room for a pc in my house and the closest thing I have is a Mac book but that’s laggy as hell so I’d rather play the Xbox version
Fun fact, dustbowl is a map from team fortress classic, the tunnel in the first cap point wasn't here except if you use the demoman "nuke" from classic to open it
scout and spies tend to make very good backcappers on these maps, as well as forcing the enemy team (defense) to be more wary of the control point and not overextend
I like dust bowl because it gives a sence of fighting for every inch of land, specially last cap, you get to see your entire team all at once seeing them as you come back from respawn getting to the front lines and doing everything you can to keep the team pushing into you
Most of Dustbowl's problems were caused by the changes made to the core map. If you compare it to the TFC versions, this becomes obvious, and 2fort suffers from the same thing. The TFC versions of those maps, had more flanks, more paths; and some team oriented ones, such as needing Demo or Heavy to use MIRVs to open some hidden passages for teammates. And of course, the fact that in TFC, the main objective was for someone to bring a flag to the points. Meaning it was plausible for a Scout to just bunny hop in and cap on his own easily. In the 1st map, the capture point in TFC was also not in the shack at the end, but next to Red spawn, making it harder to cap, since a Sentry could overlook the point, and block off oncoming captures. The TF2 version makes it way too easy to stack Sentries, and since you'll basically need an Uber to get in, the game end up taking way longer. And of course; since TF2 has capture points, instead of a flag, capping the points becomes much more of a pain in the butt until you get that one good push, and everyone gets on the point at once.
tbh dustbowl is one of a few maps that couple be played for an extended period of time in a lobby in casual. I feel like that is the reason many people like to stick to it.
Dustbowl's always been my favorite map alongside 2fort. Of course it was the first map I ever played instantly making it my favorite. Plus I just like the map in general.
The blu spawn on dustbowl pt 1 (and by extension the pit outside their spawn on pt 2) is pretty much the WW1 offensive experience. Attempting to go up those stairs and leave spawn is like when the whistle blows and everyone scrambles up the ladders into no man's land, with half of them getting shot as soon as they peak over the trench. Dustbowl is the ultimate "war is hell" experience.
![[TF2] Why Demo is Hated](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vVU3i_kziZQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I think its because when you put cereal on your bowl it turns into dust i guess that's why its hated
True
Damb
What kind of cereal do you eat.
@@Jamkam-sn9bz dust cereal
nice
Dustbowl lobbies go like this:
1st area: The 1st cap gets taken quite quickly, unless Red team is spawncamping. In which case, Blue team has effectively lost. If the second isn't capped immediately afterward the 1st cap is capped, the Blue team has effectively lost.
2nd area: No matter how good Blue team is, it will always be a walk through hell just trying to even leave the small mines at the start. Even if Blue speedrun cap the first point, Red will still have time to respawn and set up defenses on the final cap. This is where many Dustbowl games usually end.
3rd area: If the Red team has a phlog and/or kritz demo, then Blue has lost. If Red isn't doing this then Blue still has to chew through heavy defenses and sentry nests just to get the 1st cap. Final cap is hell no matter what side you're on, Red has to fight for control of the bridge connecting the control point to the rest of the map, while Blue has to maintain control of the corridor just outside of the CP's viewpoint. If Red pushes them out, then Blue has effectively lost all staging power and has to burn time getting ready again.
TL;DR: The map is basically Stalingrad for Blue team
That + that one Spy that always tries to backcap but fail like 80% of the time
The sheer hell the Blue team has to go through to cap is why the round-timer is so long, because, with all that against them, they're going to need that 26 minutes to cap.
Wierdly this is why i like it. no matter what, there's lots of chaotic action, and if you stick around for more than "well we won/lost on defense." or "well we won/lost on attack" you'll most likely have a chance to win no matter what. Essentially: no matter what, both teams end up steamrolled, even if they win.
@@antirevomag834 And that's mostly why people love the map so much, and why everyone plays it. Despite it's extremely bad flaws, it's objectively defender sided chokepoints, bad spawns and hilariously bad map design, the map is extremely fun, because despite everyone KNOWING that's it bad, they still play it and enjoy it like any other map anyways. And also because of the amount of chaos that happens, all the pills and rockets exploding left and right, teammates yelling and dying, mini guns brrring, sentry guns beeping, Medic's ubering, scorch flares and Sniper rounds grazing by, buff banners conch shells and backup horns being blown, Spy mains screaming in anger, all of it happening in tightly packed corridors and hallways.
If blu doesn't have a competent Engineer to build teles it loses automatically 90 percent of the time
Seriously, I hate people who go Engie and don't build teles. If you do this, do the world a favor and uninstall
fun fact: dustbowl has had its really long timers since the open beta, valve never thought "hmm, maybe we should make the timer shorter"
Indeed
Reminds me of Powerhouse. I have unironically had 4 hour rounds multiple times in the past due to the no time limit. Then they added the 10 minute limit. Ngl, I kinda miss the no time limit.
The amount of time BLU has on this map is compensated by RED's veeery advantageous positions and ease of defending. BLU needs multiple coordinated charges to breach RED and thus the time was added. The problem is that Valve never bothered to fix/modify the map to lower the number of chokes and give more flanking routes so in theory RED is guaranteed to win just by their defensive advantage. And no, if you see BLU win is usually because RED team has very bad players. Everytime BLU wins the first 3 stage round, once they are on RED they defend almost always the first and second stage last points successfully.
@@geckoguy4141 actually powerhouse recently got a timer! It is so much better because of it
Edit: wait whoops didn't see the last part :/
@n a m e . bro blue can get camped the shit out everywhere and blue can push the frick out of red on that map everywhere too its a good map
In tfc we played dustbowl all days long. That was 20 years ago.
I see you were a *Classic* player.
TFC Dustbowl is more fun imo
nothing has changed, tf2 has same "problem", just like in cs you play dust2 for ever
@@doctahjonez the instant respawn does the magic
@@elecman748 Ikr, that and grenade jumping and stuff, elmost everyone knows how to jump straight to the point from spawn lol
Want to feel true pain? Play Dustbowl with training bots. They haven't been updated since 2008 or something and boy does it show.
wdym to many enigneers?
@Bunneer sv_cheats 1, addcond 5, addcond 33
Those bots are a pain in the ass. 7/10 times when blu cap the first point they start to cram in a corner at spawn and don't come out.
In a lot of shooter games the training bots are really bad and easy to beat even on the hardest difficulties, but for some reason TF2 has bots that can be as horrible to face as actual aimbots in game.
and boy oh boy once you aim a sniper at any of them they will just instantly forget everything and tunnelvision you, even if you take cover then come back out they still shoot you unwarranted this time
I really wish this wasn’t the ONLY map that was run on class wars server.
Panda's server run Class warfare with a large selection of maps, excluding this one.
@@SirDavid290 oh shit really ?? i gotta see this
Any round with Engineers on defending is a nightmare.
I keep having flashbacks to Medics vs Engineers.
@@ricedanan makes me really miss the old skiver server that made it so engineers on red could only build minis.
@@ricedanan I'll never forget that round that had Engineer vs. Engineer
Dustbowl: the Stalingrad of TF2. Brutal CQC for every meter of space.
Accurate
accurate
or even The invasion of Poland, or Finland fighting for ever Millimeter of space to tooth and nail
Or western front of WW1 where you need to lose 50k men to push the enemy back for 100 meters.
Stalingrad had high ceilings and long ranges for snipers.
Dustbowl: The Worst Best Worst Best Best Worst Map
coom
I really like dustbowl because of how bad it is, it's a great map for when you want to turn off your brain and just enjoy nice long rounds without worrying about objectives.
just run in a straight line and kill what's in front of you
If you're on red, anyway. Blu usually cries in spawn particularly in Class Wars with Engineers on RED
ctf: _am i a joke to you_
Underrated comment
I know that Dustbowl may be objectively bad but it's honestly one of the maps that i have the most fun on. It was even the first map I played. The majority of the community hates it but the people that you meet on there makes it one of my favorite maps.
Same here.
I feel like the hours I put in, the less I enjoy maps like dust bowl and 2fort.
@@vladiiidracula235 if you solely play those map ofc you will eventually get bored of them if you don't it is more of like a fun surprise
@@valentino9639 I don’t, I have a large playlist of maps, and neither are on it.
On paper, dustbowl is worse than hot garbage. However, in practice the fires of virtual war make to forge friendships that, while fleeting, always leave a mark on those who were there to make them.
I remember the other team taking forever to make the first cap in dustbowl and once they did they got 20 minutes to make the second ca, some guy in chat was like "that was only world war 1"
10:23 You forgot to mention that the building here has a window specifically for bouncing Demoman pipes in. It doesn't work *much,* but it's there on purpose. It was probably more useful when every class had grenades, since they definitely did when this map was designed.
Edit: Now that I think about it, this map makes a lot more sense if you imagine everyone having grenades. Still sounds terrible in my head, but that would help with some of the choke spots...
it would be interesting for some maps to have map-specific weapons for all classes
kinda like how Mannpower has the Grappling Hook
in all my years of playing dustbowl, I have never noticed this window until now.
@@terrypennington2519 I probably did, but I've never given it any attention or thought, and just imagined that it was for decoration, as such a small room would need a window of some kind for people to breathe and sunlight to enter.
Its been awhile, but with the grenades in TFC being included I do remember it going way faster compared to tf2. Also capping points in that game was mostly instant so the final area was a lot more difficult to uphold. Many of the classes were also far more mobile (scouts/medics can conc-jump, demo's and soldiers can still pipe/rocket jump, everyone had grenades which was risky to jump from but its still mobility, and b-hopping existed).
@@Blitz1Blacktail1 In TFC it took a while to get through the tiny tunnels because they were spammed by red. You had to get sniper to be lucky and get a charged shot on a sentry. Or try to get through it as a spy and throw nades on them. Also capturing a point was done with a flag. Once the flag touched the point, you won the section. With a good conc or nade jump you were also able to capture the point before the sentry guns were able to shoot you. But of course 90%+ of the players weren't skilled enough for that.
"Dustbowl is hated"
**People proceeds to 100% vote it on map votation**
Votation
they do a little trolling
*Stockholm syndrome*
You gotta remember the community loves to play masochist for a joke. Myself included so no judgement lol
You have finally discovered what min viewmodels are. I'm glad.
Just wait until he discovers animation overhauls
Min viewmodels are disgusting and awful. Default viewmodels is a way to go. Especially with animations overhaul.
@@BulletSponge71436 I like min viewmodels, I think they're great. But, hey, I understand if you want your weapon to cover the entire right side of your screen. i wish you good luck.
@@Cave-w9x If you think that default weapon viewmodels cover entire right side of the screen - you're stupid or on drugs. That's your choice if you want to play the game in such a shitty way.
@@BulletSponge71436 To be fair, it largely depends on the weapon.
I never really cared for it until A. People stared complaining about it and B. I tried to reload the pomson which does actually take up 65% of the screen
Never have i been so offended by something I 100% agree with.
This is actually my third favorite map, after Goldrush and Harvest. But i understand why people hate it. 😅
Edit: this is my first TF2 map and the reason i main Medic.
it doesn't surprise me that you like Goldrush, as Goldrush is literally Dustbowl but Payload 😅
@@terrypennington2519
It really freaking is, and as a Medic main i love both
@@davisdf3064 wef
I have good memories of Dustbowl. When I bought this game in 2010 all I played was Dustbowl.
Fun fact my very first map to join are also Dustbowl
@@ryanrong495 mine too!
It's the only map that's good on ps3
@@ryanrong495 the first map i played was mountain lab, even when playing the game for the first time, i already knew how bs it was to take a full minute to cap the first point
the second point was where i found out how much i loved sniper, that overhead rock bridge was a very good place for snipers to roam, and on defense, the second point with the house was a good place to camp as sniper, pretty sure i got my first headshot at that point
the third point is where i discovered the power of explosive classes, that central point and red spawn gave me the adrenaline i needed to get a total of 3 kills in a single life, the new record
@@calbighommie2957 Yep, most played right after 2Fort.
I just wish more than 4 people played a day though.
This map on TF Classic had a different objective: carry the flag to the control point. Most TFC servers used to have 16 players at most (think at the connection speeds back in late 90's), so it was good for what it was designed for.
As a dustbowl lover all I have to say is its broken, unbalanced, bs, but it's home.
I've been playing on uncletopia recently to avoid all the bots, and people keep voting for this fucking map since dane made a video on it
Life is pain
Love those servers, put people only vote the same four maps over and over.
I mean its still a fun map, every win is goddamn fought HARD for, making getting a point that much more satisfying.
Overall Uncletopia proves that people are often too stupid to make their own decisions and a UA-camr essentially dictates them what to do.
@@turkishjanitor3666 how does uncle Dane think payload and capture points are so good? I end up getting really mediocre kill death ratios and due it being very strict, cuz the entire team working together, very likely to see very skilled players, and needing to give out your max if you want to extend your survivality to do something
@@user-nf2es5xv5w I mean... probably from having fun playing the game for reasons other than K/Ds? People can in fact have fun trying to be helpful to the team's overall goal, and considering Uncle Dane is in fact an Engie Main, it stands to reason that he would have more enjoyment on the kinds of maps where that kind of support is helpful. Would need more data to verify, but that'd be my read on the matter.
In responses there are going to be people who also need to understand this. Well designed maps may or may not be fun maps. 2fort and Turbine are terribly designed maps but are super fun for that, like how playing a bad game with your friends may still be fun. See this mostly through a competitive view, I can only assume Space Guy also knows this. He may already have put it in the video, but I haven't watched it all the way.
high tower is the perfect example of this. is it balanced, well designed or in any shape or form objectively good? hell no! but it sure is fun as hell, so fun in fact that some servers will ban you for even trying to play the objective, which doesn't really matter because nobody ever wins on high tower even if the whole team is try hards.
I won't accept this dustbowl slander it's the second best map in the game
what's the first
@@inactivepleasegoaway 5gorge
@@inactivepleasegoaway 2fort
*dies of brain-hurt*
turbine
Dustbowl is one of my favorites especially as a start
Something about holding a defense on third point for 20 minutes as engineer or medic is just intense
Monkey's Delivery Service is a symbolic music track because the level of animal abuse in Mother 3 is comparable to the mental abuse of players forced to play Dustbowl.
Dustbowl is 3rd favourite map below Upward and Badwater. I fucken' love how dumb it is.
This somehow explains why I always uncheck dustbowl when searching for a match in half the time it takes me to explain to another human. Good job.
Fun fact: I managed to win Blu Round 1 of Dustbowl singlehandedly in the space of about a minute. When I spawned, after my latest death, playing Scout, I managed to get behind enemy lines to the first point where, oddly, there were no Engies set up. I capped that point before Red knew I was there, and ran all on my lonesome to the second point where, again, no Engies. Since no one was around thanks to the entire Red team being up by my spawn, I capped that point in seconds. No one, not even my own team, figured out what had happened until we were on the next section
I've never played or seen a game of Dustbowl that didn't last 3 rounds. But personally I like that, me and my team started this sisapheian task together and there's no way in he'll were stopin now. It's a weird sort of comradary thing.
"Alright, yeah that's a pretty good job" - Scout TF2
When I hear that some maps in tf2 are too long my first thought is about Dustbowl, and I compare this map (and 2fort) to maps like Blood Gulch, Derail, and other large scale fps maps. My thinking usually makes me think of one map as the whole map pool in a broad term, when really, it isn't, I just played it a ton as a new player and expect the other maps to be this tight, closed, claustrophobic experience with a lot of chokepoints and not many advantages to the other team. I can type about how trying to get last point is like trying to play Silver Surfer for the NES, but I had this thing to get out of my mind.
2fort is an excellent deathmatch map; what's the problem?
@@alaeriia01 The problem is the size for me. I like to have some breathing room so that I don't feel like I'm forced to go places. I know a lot of TF2's map design is about getting you to the objective, but still it doesn't feel like there's one place to go for many maps. Look at Upward, and more specifically the cave section before you reach the next checkpoint. You got three different ways to go, the most chokepointy and direct route, the mine exit, and cliff exit. They don't just put you to the same place they give you a little bit of an option, like with the mine exit gives you the high ground, or cliff is the most definition version of a Flank route. For both teams they got their own forms of "safe spaces", where people can take a rest to get health, ammo, or just to think about what's happening, if 2fort and Dustbowl there is none, wither one team has a safe space on Dustbowl or 2fort has the most direct flank route that gets you to the same area you wanted to be. on Dustbowl every flank Route gets you to the same place or a less undesirable place, and at some times, no flank route., like on the penultimate point. I want breathing room, I want flank routes, and for me Hightower is the best deathmatch map because of it.
Hey I know the server at the beginning of the video! It's called Nemu's Stomping Ground, and it has a fun gamemode called "Engineer Fortress" where the entire RED team is engineer bots.
jesus christ
@@cheddartaco It is just as insane as you’d think lol
It's actually not incredibly difficult with a coordinated team
@@sugaryhull9688 It depends on how many people and how coordinated they are. The more people that join the server, the less bots there are. However normally you don't encounter a really coordinated team anyway lol, at least from my experience.
I used to love that server! Did it get shut down? I had it in my favs but it's been gone for months
i love the style and feel of your videos, very well done
hi mr Scout doppelganger
I play Dustbowl since TFC times. It's supposed to be incredibly hard for BLU to win. The spam is by design and it was toned down A LOT in TF2. It was also one of the most popular maps back then, which is why Valve ported it to TF2.
15:40 Not to mention if Blu managed to get a sentry on that walkway the games over. There's very few spots Red can go to corner peak it, it covers the point and the entire bridge, and the fence there shields like half the sentry
you should do a five minute video of why turbine is bad
the map is small, makes for a good filler while youre doing greater stuff
Eventually doing Turbine... seeing how most of my videos are "simple topic taken to the limit" the video will probably be 11 minutes somehow.
@@SpaceGuyOnline i would actually be amazed if you managed to make an 11 minute video on turbine, because i cant imagine it
edit: also happy 5k subs!
@@SpaceGuyOnline after bad maps, will you start talking about good ones like Upward and Badwater?
@@andybogdan4380 Eventually, plan is to do 3 classes and then a map or a class then a map or so, alternating between them.
Series is more so why people don't like certain aspects of things within TF2 however, not exactly a map review but I could perhaps extend it to that.
@@SpaceGuyOnline call it turdbine
I honestly love Dustbowl, it's intense as fuck
The map being chokepoint hell means no matter where you go there's always 6 or 7 enemies in your face, it being so easy to defend means Blu team has to go all out to make progress, and the sheer pressure being applied by both sides means that there's hardly ever a dull moment on either team, as any second another 6v6 could break out
This video was really entertaining and a serious take at the same tame, hope to see more like this
2:37
"fuck this tunnel in particular"
That one backburner pyro from hell who's about to take out half your power classes: insert troll face here
thats me!
Dustbowl was the biggest casualty of instant respawn/increased population servers, which only got more prevalent with time. Skial servers were being played on in a lot of this footage and to my memory they implemented both at one point or another (certainly increased capacity just from watching some of this). Typically, both of those features will benefit RED in a map with close quarters, since (1) adding further pressure to a bottleneck is never going to be as effective as its counterpart's resistance in tandem and (2) they can Zerg-defend the final cap in a pinch. The same is true in reverse with open maps, which is why BLU tends to get such insane momentum on Gravelpit if there's >30 players. Sometimes I'm in the mood for a deadlock but on the whole I always wished there were more reliable servers that didn't mess with the game's balance.
Uncle Dane: hold my bear
“Bear” ?
HOLY CRA-
"Until we get bored and play fucking Turbine." Best ending to a video ever.
Dustbowl 3rd stage tunnel feels like its a flank route alright. For RED. Cause it leads straight behind the usual enemy forward hold, letting anyone slip behind to go take care of their tele's or just suprise em with a pocketed phlog or demoman.
perhaps
Winning dustbowl comes down to:
1. Does blu back-cap on stages 1 and 2
2. Which team actually bothers to walk forward when ubercharged during the 20 minute shitfest of stage 3
3. Literally nothing else
"What is a *king* of defenseable areas, to a *GOD* defenseable areas?"
Me (Pyro) and my Heavy + Medic combo: "What is a *god* to a NON BELIVER?!"
The thing with Dustbowl is that it's an old map from an era where online multiplayer was more organized and less open, dating as far back as the original Team Fortress. You could get away with map elements that necessitated the use (or disuse) of classes because the people playing were generally friends who played together regularly and were willing to make class changes as needed. I feel like matchmaking has massively changed TF2's team dynamics, not for the better or worse, but just to something significantly different from what it was originally designed for.
I only queue dustbowl and I play with the same 30 people every day. Sometimes a new player joins the lobby and doesnt understand dustbowl culture. You spawn trap the attackers until the timer is up then you let them cap so you can go back to spawn trapping them.
I would just like to point out that the original intended use of the shed next to blu spawn was probably so that when blu is pushing their way through, and red is further back near the point, blu can use the shed as a temporary safe spot, plus the full health kit being there in case someone takes too much damage and there isnt a medic around that can help at tne moment. Sometimes you have to look at these things as how they can both be utalized by each respective teams standpoint, because only then is it really okay to determine a clear answer.
Everyone making dust bowl videos now
Uncle Dane, Octo, now you
Gotta stay relevant somehow.
@@SpaceGuyOnline u right
Dustbowl map 3 either ends in 5 mins with backdoor cap or in 30 mins
The defenders and attackers alternate between being straight up advantageous, and the loading times + setup time in between levels is just annoying. Usually games take way too long
🎶It’s beginning to look alot like dustbowl🎶
Honestly, I love your originality and unique style with alliterations at the start of evey episode and your running joke at the start of a video of the commentator replacing a certain character with numbers. It's very refreshing and unique. Really make you stand out, plus its funny.
mate you deserve way more subscribers, it's the second time you've appeared in my feed and the second time i've clicked on a video of yours.
You're going to make it big bro, trust me
It is always an good feeling when you get a fast round of dustbowl (only happens when you play scout and the enemy team does not know where to put their sentry's)
a fast round of dustbowl will 100% mean the teams were not balanced and the game would have been a stomp regardless of map.
and that's part of an issue, unless the tteams are horribly missmatched dustbowl is always either a stomp or a 30+ min slugfest.
I like to think that Dustbowl, and every other old map that has been there since the launch of the game, made sense only in the early days of TF2. I mean, if you count that demoman grenades would explode on contact with every enemy building/player even if they bounced on a wall back then, pyro had no airblast, engie could not move buildings nor upgrade anything outside sentry, and kritz medic didn't exist to make spawncamp the monster it is now, and beta had grenades for classes too, I think with all that in mind the map makes way more sense.
Also this shelter in 3:59 is perfect to build a dispenser and make spawncamp even more hellish :V
Great video man, I’ve never been able to oaky the modern version of tf2 on pc and most my childhood was instead on the orange box ps3 version and the only maps we had were like 2fort and dustbowl. I used to get so frustrated at the poor way these set of maps were designed and looking at it from your clever point of view has really put it into perspective of what makes good map design ! Thanks mate
Dustbowl is definitely better in TFC because the chokepoints were built with player grenades in mind and the cap is instantaneous and flag-based
Dustbowl is so defensive I’ve seen red defend against double Uber heavy pushes on last before
well, dustbowl exists as a memory people about the first team fortress
and old stuff never change (unless meant to)
really poorly designed maps are actually really good for players, because it teaches proper lessons in how to handle similar situations
The music for this video is a throwback to my childhood, thank you
>implying there's anything wrong with dustbowl
Nice level design breakdown - don't see a lot of those on UA-cam. Cheers!
I have 7000 hours on TF2. And I'm positive at least 75% of that time has been played on DB.
Both my best and worst memories from TF2 come from this map alone, and I regret absolutely nothing
Oddly enough, I can't seem to win on this map even as an Uber medic on the RED team. Whenever I play BLU, we can cap until the last point and NOTHING will break their defenses, but then when the tables turn, by that part of the map, SOMEHOW a pair of scouts managed to BONK their way by everyone, and even when I saw and called them out, NOBODY would go kill them, so when we all due and they cap the first point, OOP, there's the two scouts instantly capping the final point cause NOBODY chose to turn around.
alternate title: why they should have brought back avanti and not dustbowl from tfc
I think it's fun because of how long the matches are, when you play a full one it's like having the community server experience condensed into an hour of play
The best part about dustbowl is that it isn't upward
Dustbowl maybe hated, but is the most played map. That's why everybody likes Dustbowl.
Players love so much Dustbowl that they hate it. Ironic.
I think I've spent more time in Dustbowl spawn rooms than in the open areas
The music gives me so much nostalgia
That final area is always absolute hell for the attacking team. The amount of times you can get Spawn camped until the clock runs out is ridiculous.
4:24
Ther was also a full ammo pack
Just a reminder that dustbowl was a map for tfc a game where most maps has on average 0 health packs outside of spawn and spawn rooms has undestructible lvl4 sentry gun but to be fair you have to somehow get in the enemy spawn to trigger it wich was possible btw before the round ends
I was an admin on a Dustbowl only server for years, and I have more hours on it than most people have in TF2. It can be difficult for BLU to push, but many times it is because of the way some people play. The key advantage BLU has is that their spawn time is always 3 secs while RED's can be three or more times that depending on some hidden mechanics in the map code. BLU players overly concerned with K/D ratios will drag their team down. To break the spawn camps on the beginning of the stages, BLU has to be very aggressive and willing to sacrifice for the good of the team.
On stage 2 , for instance, I've seen players start to push out of the cave at the start, take a little damage and spend 10 seconds running back to the spawn cabinet to fill their health. It is faster to keep pushing and go for a kill on a RED player. If you live, you may be able to get to the health packs in the shed. If you die, its only a 3 sec respawn, much faster than taking 10 secs to run back. While you run back, RED is doing the same thing with health packs closer than the spawn cabinet. Better to stay and try to finish them off and force a long RED respawn.
No one but you cares about your K/D, and no one will remember it when the next game or round starts. No one is going to Dustbowl servers to recruit for their comp team. Push out and risk dying a few times at the start. Eventually you will make progress and the caps will come easier. The longer you give RED to build and gel as a team, the harder that push gets. Be aggressive. The first guy running out will draw most of the attention of RED players and their sentries, if other BLU follow out, they will get opportunities to get kills and take down sentries. Follow your ubers out.
Teleporters are also very important to pressing the spawn time advantage that BLU has. Teleporters need to be built as soon as possible and they need to be built as far forward as they safely can when pushing for second points to maximize that respawn advantage.
I used to love playing on Dustbowl back in the day on the Orange Box (mostly because only 2Fort/Dustbowl were only ever available), and after all of the countless updates and balance changes I played maybe 1 game of this a couple years ago and vowed never to touch it again
Big ups for including the names of the songs in the video
I got a huge nostalgia kick once I heard the pikmin music. Good Review.
I love how as soon as uncle Dane made a video about dust bowl now everyone is making a video on dust bowl I love dust bowl cause I’m restricted to the 2007 console version of tf2 WICH HAS A LIVING BREATHING COMMUNITY TOO VALVE WE HAVENT HAD AN UPDATE SINCE 2007
Meaning no offense but... why would you play console TF2? The PC version has been free for like 8 years.
@@nathancollins1715 I don’t have any room for a pc in my house and the closest thing I have is a Mac book but that’s laggy as hell so I’d rather play the Xbox version
Going as a Spy for a backcap on the last point is actually pretty effective. I've gotten a couple wins on Dustbowl using that strategy.
Virgin backcapper vs Chad 20min Dustbowl trench warfare enjoyer
Fun fact, dustbowl is a map from team fortress classic, the tunnel in the first cap point wasn't here except if you use the demoman "nuke" from classic to open it
I haven’t heard the Legend of Zelda : Spirit Tracks audio in so long, thank you for reminding me of the good days
I only hate dustbowl because there are no flank routes and as a scout main that really hurts
Dustbowl feels like the D-day landings only the D-day landings was balance
scout and spies tend to make very good backcappers on these maps, as well as forcing the enemy team (defense) to be more wary of the control point and not overextend
I legit always forget that there is a third level to Dustbowl. It always ends on the last point on level 2 with the defenders winning
Ah another great underrated TF2 video
Keep up the good work!
Dustbowl is the only map where quadruple stock uber pushes happen in casual
It's basically WW1 in tf2
You know when you’ve been pushed into too many dustbowls when hoodoo is looking functional.
I like dust bowl because it gives a sence of fighting for every inch of land, specially last cap, you get to see your entire team all at once seeing them as you come back from respawn getting to the front lines and doing everything you can to keep the team pushing into you
Most of Dustbowl's problems were caused by the changes made to the core map. If you compare it to the TFC versions, this becomes obvious, and 2fort suffers from the same thing.
The TFC versions of those maps, had more flanks, more paths; and some team oriented ones, such as needing Demo or Heavy to use MIRVs to open some hidden passages for teammates. And of course, the fact that in TFC, the main objective was for someone to bring a flag to the points. Meaning it was plausible for a Scout to just bunny hop in and cap on his own easily. In the 1st map, the capture point in TFC was also not in the shack at the end, but next to Red spawn, making it harder to cap, since a Sentry could overlook the point, and block off oncoming captures.
The TF2 version makes it way too easy to stack Sentries, and since you'll basically need an Uber to get in, the game end up taking way longer. And of course; since TF2 has capture points, instead of a flag, capping the points becomes much more of a pain in the butt until you get that one good push, and everyone gets on the point at once.
tbh dustbowl is one of a few maps that couple be played for an extended period of time in a lobby in casual. I feel like that is the reason many people like to stick to it.
the way you read the script in this video was really good, keep improving 👍
Are we not gonna mention the nostalgia-inducing mystery dungeon music in the background?
It’s beginning to look a lot like dust bowl everywhere you go.
Dustbowl's always been my favorite map alongside 2fort. Of course it was the first map I ever played instantly making it my favorite. Plus I just like the map in general.
I love both dustbowl and wutwille.
I absolutely love this map the way it is, one of my favourites and I regularly play it to this day
The blu spawn on dustbowl pt 1 (and by extension the pit outside their spawn on pt 2) is pretty much the WW1 offensive experience. Attempting to go up those stairs and leave spawn is like when the whistle blows and everyone scrambles up the ladders into no man's land, with half of them getting shot as soon as they peak over the trench. Dustbowl is the ultimate "war is hell" experience.
Uncle dane talks about how dustbowl is the best bad map. Some guy says its the best map. And now there’s this. *coincidence i think not!*
Bro this is the first time Iv ever heard spirit tracks music in a UA-cam video amazing job