Denon LFE + Main: Let The Controversy Begin (See Article & Video)
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- Опубліковано 1 лис 2015
- For sure, the article below does a better job at explaining this topic, which include some lessons learned after shooting this...Vv Click SHOW MORE vV
GAME CHANGING SUBWOOFERS:
www.subwoofer101.com/best-subw...
More in depth explanation of this topic:
www.subwoofer101.com/setting-u...
The updated, more accurate video:
• Large VS Small Speaker...
I spoke with Ed Mullen at SVS about this, and here are his thoughts:
"Hi Ryan -
I’m not a fan of running any speaker on full-range (Large/full-band), unless it’s truly a full-range tower (which is rare). There can be deep/loud bass (even down to 20 Hz or deeper) in any speaker channel - including the surrounds and center.
If the speaker channel in question is a large quasi-full-range tower with 8-10” bass drivers, I’ll usually choose 40 Hz. Otherwise I’ll choose 60 Hz for more typical 6.5” bass drivers. Smaller woofers (5-1/4” or smaller) are best at 80/100 Hz. You need to look at both extension and dynamic output capability and choose the crossover which best reflects both of those variables. If room correction programs have shortcomings, it’s that they focus too much on extension without regard to dynamic limits which can be exposed at higher playback levels with certain source material.
It’s more important to capture all the bass on the DVD and route it to the speakers/subwoofers which can best handle it, than to compromise dynamic output (and possibly damage a bass driver) by setting a speaker to Large/full-band simply because it has a marginally better looking REW response."
I make a big deal about deference, and Ed Mullen is someone I defer to with confidence. If you are unfamiliar with him, he can be found on forums and on the SVS website giving excellent advice, and his opinion carries a great deal of weight.
A lot of what I know can be traced back to opinions and advice he has offered, and I still have a lot to learn.
The point about room EQ programs refers to dropping the crossovers too low, a problem I discuss a lot. I also think it's worth adding that in the rare scenario where you do have true "full range" speakers, you'll want more power, beyond a typical AVR like what I have. On an AVR like mine, setting it to Large is pointless.
So small is ideal 98% of the time. At least you can hear it for yourself, and if you are still "determined" to run your speakers Large you can at least get the bass back to your subs. Make it easier on your mains, AVR, and yourself, and go Small.
Check out my new sub setup guide, which applies to most setups.
www.subwoofer101.com/setting-u...
Subwoofer101 is designed to help people new to the sickness avoid some of the pitfalls of home theater. It’s way too easy to spend a bunch of money and be unimpressed. Browse this channel and www.subwoofer101.com for easy tech advice, product reviews, and tips to make the most out of your setup!
I have affiliate relationships to support this channel and the website. If you would like to support this channel, you can follow the links below and on the website shortly before your next purchase, if it makes sense for you to do so. Kind comments are just as welcome!
Here is my setup at time of upload:
Amplifier, same as mine, but updated for 4k and dual subwoofers: amzn.to/20gm9ZY
If you want to get better, I would recommend this unit as it has the better room EQ: amzn.to/20gmj3y
Discontinued versions like the 2100, 2000, 4000, and 4100 are good too, just lighter on features. I would avoid refurbished, as you can't get a Square Trade warranty, which I HIGHLY recommend after both my TV and laptop both benefited from such warranties.
Speaker wire: sub101.link/Mono12AWG
Front speakers (new model, they don’t make mine anymore): amzn.to/19dkyOV
I also recommend looking at these based on my experience so far:
sub101.link/PrimeBook
And if you are into towers:
sub101.link/PrimeTower
Surround speakers: amzn.to/19dkO06
Center (New version) : amzn.to/1GHbCin
And a much better center: sub101.link/PrimeCenter
Dual SVS:
sub101.link/PB-1000
LG 4K 3D Replaced previous Vizio with Square Trade type warranty. Love the LG, some issues aside.
amzn.to/20gn2BV
Subscribe for more videos like this, and feel free to comment and ask questions.
www.subwoofer101.com - Наука та технологія
set all speakers to small and LFE only . crossover setting round about 80hz. any bass above 80hz is sent to the mains which most floor standing can manage. if it's set to LFE + main the amp has to send bass signal to sub and mains thus reducing the quality of the bass . leave all the bass for the sub
After watching this video last night I changed my bass setting from LFE only to LFE+MAIN and I noticed the difference...thanks for this video 👍🔊🔊🔊🔊🎥🎼
I got all paradigms to ! & an all klipsch set up ! Love both . Glad I found this channel
I have a pair of R-28F's with my 5.2.2 set up powered by X3300W. On Base management I tried small and large set up all the while but was not happy with the output. I knew i was missing something. The moment I changed it to LFT + Main it was a drastic change. Even tough my mains can handle lows when i doubled them with my PB2000 it sounded unbelievable. I am super happy now. I recommend everyone to give it a shot. btw - your videos are awesome
Thanks! I still run all of my speakers as small, it's less stress on the AVR and the speakers themselves. I actually got my X2000 to dim a little with all speakers on "Large". I just let the subs handle the low end, and cross them at 90 hertz. (rated to 32 hertz) and crank the sub up a little more if need be. www.subwoofer101.com/setting-up-your-gear/large-vs-small-lfe-main-double-bass-etc/
There must have been an update to The sound menus since this video or I am in left field. I am able to set it to LFE+mains then go and adjust crossover frequencies on each speaker group. I cross my B&W 702 s2 towers at 40 hz, then center at 60hz, and the sorround at 90hz.
I agree I now have R820f and a R10swi and with LFE+Main everything sounds much fuller. Crossover on sub set to 80hz (had it set to LFE but it worked out better this way).
I've always prefer large and LFE+ MAIN adds . More bass to centre where most of the audio comes from and enhances that punch in your chest from your centre if good enough plus I've noticed that dialogue has more rich deepness it adds to the voice. Perfect for me and I know my back 4 channels can handle the bass as there has been so many times I've left my seat couple inches as something flys over from behind like a plane.
This is very helpful as I just upgraded to the Denon AVR S760H. All these new acronyms take a bit to learn.
This video helped clarify. Thanks a lot! I had SVS Prime Ultra towers. They sounded best only when I set them to large with LFE+Main setting.
i guess I'm kind of randomly asking but do anybody know of a good site to watch new tv shows online ?
Hi I've got a Denon AVR 3313 (9.2 surround AVR). I've set up a 2.1 with a pair Xavian Mia2 (4ohms bookshelf spkrs) and an Equal Max10 (sub)
I have put the amp settings to 2channel, connected the Xavians to the surround height (the avr supports 2 4ohm speakers in this mode), the speaker settings in 2channel mode to large, for the Lfe distribution I've selected (Lfe + main) and for the audio playout I've selected pure direct. Huge improvement after callibrating the volume outputs of the speakers with respect to the sub in this settings.
This video makes a lot of sense. I've heard the "small setting" issue before but never really understand why. Now I do! Thanks a bunch!
This goes into more detail: www.subwoofer101.com/setting-up-your-gear/large-vs-small-lfe-main-double-bass-etc/
Thank you so much! :)
i started running my set up with LFE+main and the richness, fullness and bass response is soooo much better. Even the dialogue is deeper and richer from my center. Its way better than using the typical "small" and 80hz configuration.
just as a follow up to this comment...yeaaaaah. LFE+Main is bad. If requires you to run your towers as full range, and unless you have massive towers with 12" kickers, don't bother. I tried doing this with my Prime Pinnacles and they damn near shat themslves when watching Aqumanman at reference.
I agree 👍
I got x2500 Denon, Dali Oberon5 fronts. Fronts are at Large 40hz. Dali Oberon center at Large 60hz. Argon 15inch sub 80hz. My Dali Oberon onwall is at small 40hz. My B&W M1 is at small 60hz. LFE+Main.
I am very satisfied with my sound on this setup. I have tried to set everything to small, but I went back this setup.
Thanx for all the videos, tips and updates on your chanel. I will tune in thru the year.
I have had this explanation from other UA-camrs and didn't understand what they where trying to say. So thank you for your efforts as I got it, understood exactly what you explained, kinda felt dumb not getting what they said, guess they don't speak English the same way I do. Great job.
I am using Denon h2600x and it has Room EQ and dynamic EQ. The first is for compensating room's acoustic, second - compensate human ear sound perception by boosting low eq at quite listening and opposite when loud.
Sobwoofer also needs to find best spot in a room because the same woofer sounds different when placed in other spots.
Good info, the main reason why I needed to learn about the option LFE+Main is because I noticed when playing music through Bluetooth I was not getting bass from my sub. So I read on line you have to use this option in order for the sub to work when listening to music.
How cool! Unintentional problem solving, I like it. I still prefer the Small setting even for towers.
Robert TERRELL I have the same problem what did you do??
Thanks for the tip 👍🏽. It s like i have new speakers. The sound of my CANTON speakers is WoW..... love ur channel
Thanks so much for watching! Be sure to check out my Bass Hack Video Series. More of the same, and tricks you might not find elsewhere.
CANTONS!!!!!!!!!!!! I have some old car components and love them. Not sure how many people have Cantons for home audio here in US but they have a sound of their own
Very informative!Thank you for the awesome information!
Nice video! I have a Denon amp and an ML Abyss sub and I was wondering why it wasn't kicking in as much as I'd like. I'll make this change tonight!
this video really helped me a lot with my denon avr x4400 thank you
Thank you so much for the video. I was struggling for awhile trying to get my sub to work.
Oh! I’ll have to go back and re-experiment with this. My bookshelf speakers don’t project well in my room.
Thank you for the article. It's great help. I'm going through you collection of UA-cam movies to get an idea what to buy and how to setup :)
Keep up the great work!!
+Snowy Thank you for the feedback! Glad you like it!
I own the pandion 50s.. and oh man, thanx. Gonna set those to large and do LFE+main thing. Thanx again.
I have a 4,000ft3 room to fill with sound and only one 12" sub. I keep my settings as LFE+mains on my Yamaha receiver so the front tower speakers (set to large) help with the bass reproduction. I wish I had dual 16" subs.
Thanks, mate. That's some good info!
But what's the difference of low pass filter in this menu and the one of the frequencies for the speakers? Isn't that the same?
i have some fairly good towers and center that go down to 30/32hz respectively, plus surrounds down to 40hz; however as of right now due to space and cost limitations I'll be running one sub. I've been using the small setting but considering the idea of large to try to even out the bass in the room, is that a good idea?
Bro, you are a life saver. Ultimate 👍 excellent knowledge. I'm going to experiment it on mine. I have got definitive technology BP 9060 and they have subwoofer built in. I know.... I know.... I'm guilty but this is what I bought over thanksgiving, and today I bought a subwoofer from Klipsch R-12SW 400W from Costco and it's time to play with these settings again. Thank you so much. I just subscribed myself on your channel. 👍🙂❤️
I have a pair of KEF R300s. I disconnected the LF input in the speaker and connected the amp just to the HF input. Then connected one of my PB 2000 to the mains (via line in, Y Splitter) and the other PB2000 to the Subwoofer/LFE port of my preamp. I set them for a flat response. And WOW it sounds amazing. Now i don't feel the boomy bass that the R300s have that is so difficult to blend. The PB 2000 blends with the R300s beautifully.
Right on!
hi let me start by saying that I love all your videos. I need some advise on a set up. I have the acoustimas 15 Bose and the directions from Bose says that they speakers should be set to large instead of small but doing so leaves me bass deprived when watching movies. I have the system connected to a Sony receiver STR-dn1000 and when I use the calibration tool from Sony it also sets the speakers to large... you have mentioned in the past that those speakers should be set to small and 80hz, the base sounds better but is not there yet. There is a lot of boom but not a lot of deep bass LFE. What do you recommend? P.s the room is an open floor plan 25ft by 50+
Stumbled upon your video as like others my sub was not kicking in, this video helped me immensely. I rarely post you tube comments but this deserves one. Thank you. Repped.
Right on, I appreciate that!
Absolutely. I am new to this stuff, my Klipsch R-8SW is clipping with Mad Max movie. It's driven by Denon AVR-S510BT and have Andrew Jones as my mains. The crossover is set to 80Hz for Fronts/Center/Surround and set to small. Bass LPF for LFE is set to 90Hz. I understand it's a Low level sub but what's the best setting for me to drive it until I buy new one. Again thank you in advance for your input
Try these:
How I dial in subs by ear: ua-cam.com/video/dEFkPe7RrQE/v-deo.html
How I set up my Denon: ua-cam.com/video/Mfl_ttIrLVI/v-deo.html
You channel have very good information, is one of my favorite also. I prefer large and LFE+ MAIN adds because 1. my mine Towers are 12 inches woofer size 2. Because my Denon X3400H the main and center channel the hard work is execute by a 3 channel 150wpc power amplifier and the sound is way better that the small speaker option . I have also 4 subwoofer .
Thank you, i have the Denon 3700H i love it!!
I would be very interested in knowing how to connect at list in my case one more sub without having to spend more money. I am having an issue with routing the bass to the sub.Great video
I'm thinking of getting the same avr. Do you think that getting a power amp to get the best out of your front stage or can the av handle this?
Oh my goodness... thanks you for saving me with this video :)
I think setting speakers to small is highly advised on the entry to mid-level models also because the lower frequencies require the most power. If you are running large towers at Large, w/ LFE+Main you are using much more power taxing the receiver much more. If you set to small and use just LFE all your lower frequencies are handled by the SW which has it's own amplifier.
If you are experiencing issues with the AVR going into protection mode(shutting down, red blinking light), during intense rumbling scenes in a movie, try setting your mains to small and let the SW do the heavy lifting as that's what it's made for.
+soblivion Agree 100%. Small is the way to go.
Wow I was struggling with my setup! This helped out my issues big time! My speakers sound so much more crisp on small and my SVS sb 3000 I was thinking was weak lol. As soon as I changed it to LFE+Main & small made such a difference. I was thinking I should have got sb4000. Great Explanation! Cheers!
Im confused the video said if you set your speakers to all small and then LFE +Main it has no effect whatsoever only if you set your towers to LARGE would you notice a difference so not sure why you may be hearing such a difference .
also my understanding was you just set to LFE +Main so its is all set should you want to swap over to large for 2 Channel stereo so you still get bass from the Sub.
Couldn't Denon have simply offered old-school bass and treble controls for each speaker location? The kind that have been part of receivers for all time? You know, something we can intuitively wrap our heads around without making us search out UA-cam videos. The controls could still have been accessed through a menu. It would go something like this: I'd like more bass from my front speakers so I'll crank the bass setting up a little on the fronts.
Thank you for the demo and info 👍🏼. UK
Thanks! You just helped me figure out why my sub never seemed to kick in!
Glad to help, but check out the large vs small article. More in depth, and more up to date.
Rich D. What setting are you using now?
What if it's not a powered subwoofer
Is that the Dvr-1910
I mean avr-1910
If I want to test my mains (bookshelf) without the sub should I simply switch off the sub or set it to "no" in the speaker config?
Great job explaining, just what I needed thanks
I too found running by mains at full-range (large) in LFE+Main mode to be far superior and here why I believe it works in my case:
My two mains are JBL Studio 590's with 2x8" drivers + compression driver. They go to 30Hz nicely. I have 2x SVS PB2000's placed front-center and rear-center. The dual subs smooth out my longitude-standing-waves very well (30/60/120...) However, I still had a big hole at 50Hz = no kick drums. Now, my front are placed along the front wall at 1/4 and 3/4 points, together they knock out the latitude standing waves which happen to be 50/100/200... When I have my fronts set to 'small', my lowest xover option is 60Hz and although they still audible at 50Hz, for some reason the 50Hz hole remains. Allowing them to play full-range somehow completely smooths the 50Hz mode. So, running both full-range mains and dual subs pretty much knocks out ALL my long&lat room modes. Bass sweeps are super smooth.
Now, I agree that although my fronts can 'go low', it is still not ideal to run at full-range. If I were able to set a 40Hz xover, I believe this would be better still....maybe...
What I would also like to achieve is LFE channel to use mains above xover frequency... My current receiver only applies bass-management to non-sub channels, with LFE channel only going to subs
I have 3 590 1 520c and 2 jbl 580 what you think i should set the 5 speakers to as cross over and i have 1 sub in the front of screen
I have bookshelf speakers so that setting doesn't apply to me, but I appreciate the explanation.
I’ve tried both ways. I have towers that can easily handle it own regarding bass.
Mains/ lfe Was odd sounding. I think because there different size speakers producing the same effects.
Sounded muffled to me.
I submitted to “ small and lfe and 80
Maybe later I’ll ad a second sub.
Thanks for the video bro!!
Larry
Exellent review you are 100% correct, I did the same on my denon, what about the sub hertz what's the idial 80hrz or lower higher on denon? I run two jbl 10" subs and large towers jbl n310
What I do not understand is, when I set lfe+main, what low frequencies are sent also to the sub? At which cross over frequency..?
I've had my speakers for 20 years and I blew a sub. I bought new reciever and replaced the sub. Everywhere I looked people said set to small and don't run LFE +main. So after a year of screwing around and thinking my mains are wore out, I decided to change to large and added them to LFE. It took three seconds to call myself an idiot for listening to all those "experts" my towers have dual 8" powered subs in them. They (I'm happy to report) sound like they did when new. On the recommended settings they weren't doing much at all no matter what other settings I changed. So I'd suggest to start with recommendations and then break every rule they told you about on the way to finding what works. My Polk Rt 2000p speakers are still capable of bothering the block, not just the neighbors. And that's bow I like them.
I have the def tech with the built in subs and no additional subs do you think Lfe +main and on large would be the way to go?
How does bass management affect pure direct? When you set the amp to lfe plus mains in pure direct, do the subs get bass from all speakers or just the mains?
Do you get better bass in Atmos - none pure direct?
Do you get better bass in pure direct when watching atmos content?
Considering speakers are set to large and LFE plus mains is turned on?
Im running a passive twin 10 sub inline with the towers. Plus 2 12inch active subs off the receivers sw output. I have speakers set to large. Going to see if i have a subwoofer setting lfe plus mains today because my active subd rarely turn on remotely..but i do not want to lose my passive 10 inch subs up front. The 10s sound great for music..but the 12s in back are needed for theatre use.
Can I pick your inside knowledge, will the 16 ultra,s been upgraded by SVS any time soon?
Love this. Well presented.
Great video& a good explanation about sub settings. Friendly regards, Emiel
I learned more after making this, and here is a detailed explanation: www.subwoofer101.com/setting-up-your-gear/large-vs-small-lfe-main-double-bass-etc/
Subwoofer 101 I have read the article on the website. Also some other articles. Very good explained!
You say that 2 subs are better for listening than one big sub. On the moment I have one active subwoofer. Is it important to place a 2nd sub from the same brand?
Friendly regards, Emiel
I think it's vital, the bigger the difference, the bigger the problem, even within the same brand. Any sub on this list will impress, actually delivering STRONG bass down to 20 hertz, which is rare. www.subwoofer101.com/best-subwoofers/
Thanks, I'm glad you found it helpful!
I have an old school Lg home theatre system
The base has the two wire post and negative set up
Do I need anew sub ?
And is the denon to powerful for the old speakers
Hi
I have Polk Audio r 40
Sony da1800es
Pionner elite sw-e10 and acoustic research s112ps
With small satellite speakers, a have problem to like the balance!
Please for advice.
Crossover for the front is 80hz, the surround sound is on 100hz.
awesome video man. Helped me out very much
Be sure to check out the article. I learned more after making this video, and the article explains it much better.
Rhis was very helpfull.
Got it finally working after watching this video.
Ty
Glad it helped!
I do have a question about running a 5.2 setup when have time.
I was wondering why the sub only comes on while watching TV but it didnt work while listening to music. Thanks!
hi. i just bought the denon avr-s950h receiver 7.2 channel 2019. i bought it new from best buy. when turning the receiver on or off, it sounds loud like the amp has 1,500 watts, or a super loud click. works fine. ever heard this from denon or others. should i be worried if this was you. $500 door stop.
I am still not able To run bookshelf on stero mode.. Through s950h in same setting.. I have connected to subw through single subwofer cable (both side single rca pin) do I need rca to dual rca out for sub?
Very helpful..thanks kindly.
Interesting how this works on Definitive technology speakers, best of both worlds
Is setting speakers to small and just LFE for watching movies in surround mode only or for both movies and music?
The amp set my centre bookshelf speaker to 200hz crossover, but no wonder, as it's sitting on a plastic chair at the moment, below ear height. I'm thinking LFE+Main might give it a bit of a boost until it gets its own bracket.
By the way, I spotted a bit of floorspace without speakers on it to the left ;-)
hello i have onkyo txnr 646 and the harman kardon hkts 9bq and my receiver after accueq has the satelite speakers front to 180hz and back to 150 and the sub to 120hz thats good for the sound? i try to down hz to the sub but the receiver goes only to 80hz why it dosn go 40 30or less can you help and tell me what i have to do thanks...
Good idea for next video. Try doing one with the svs ultra tower and 1 sub only. No everyone can have 2 subs. Does it give more even distribution? Great video
Thanks for this video. I have a question my Klipsch Towers go down to 25hrz should they be set to Large ? Also I have two Klipsch 240S speakers I use as rears but I'm not getting a lot of sound out of them. What adjustments can I make to get a more immersive experience from them ?
I think this page should help make more sense of it: www.subwoofer101.com/setting-up-your-gear/large-vs-small-lfe-main-double-bass-etc/
Essentially, even set as Small, your towers would still get signal down to 25 hertz. The crossover setting is not a hard cutoff like it is for the subwoofers. Running them as Small would take stress off of the AVR and towers.
Which AVR do you have? Have you run room correction? You can get into the channel level menu and add more gain, but it could also be a setting on your Blu Ray player, preventing better sound formats: ua-cam.com/video/vbdbtxdNK3s/v-deo.html
Thanks for explaining LFE+Main. It was very helpful. When you're done with those speakers can I have them lol
Thanks for this. I have already got the LFE + Main setup, but I’m trying to figure out how to get the Sub to work in 2 channel stereo music whilst in Direct mode. Any suggestions please?
It won’t. Direct mode only applies to the front left and right speakers.
Would this still apply to a pair of Goldenear Triton 3's?
I spent 3 grand on towers for my front and rears, finally bit the bullet and set them to small 80hz and let my dual subs handle the bass. Man I wish I had done that years ago, just felt like I spent a ton of money for bass ready towers and I needed them on large for peace of mind for all of that cash spent lol
Donate them to me...Im poor WDYT?
David Faulkner no idea if you’ll respond, but just curious. Do you wish you had now bought bookshelves instead? I have towers myself but no where near as expensive so running small isn’t that big of a deal. still wondering myself if better bookshelves would sound better (I love the look of towers!) and no one knows I’m running them on small lol
Great info, Thanks!!!
I have no bass coming from my sw in spite of the LFE+MAIN setting. Can you tell me why? Thanks
I have a Denon AVR-X2300W with Boston Acoustics Lynnfield VR30's (bi-amped) as my front towers. I always find myself switching back and forth on the bass management, I'll switch to LFE+Main for listening to stereo audio and music as the sub doesn't work at all with 2 channel audio and I'll switch to LFE for 5.1/7.1 audio when I'm watching a movie or playing games on the PS4 as I find its too much bass once the sub gets its own dedicated signal.
Subbed and Alerted... just got a Denon AVR-S730h receiver after my old 7.2 receive was having issues. I have 2 10 inch Klipsch 300 watt or more subs. Ones the R-10SW. My Front speakers are a pair of R-26F's. Currently I have my speakers set to small, and the bass on LFE. My crossover is set to 80 hz all around... my center channel is the Klipsch RP-250C, my 4 surround speakers in my 7.2 setup are R-15M's by Klipsch. It sounds pretty good right now... just wonder if you have any suggestions on what to try... like maybe the LFE + Main... and what crossovers I should try. I have my subs at half gain, and the crossovers on them at 120 hz.
I have 4 klipsch R-26F’s 2 for mains and 2 for rear and 4 klipsch R-10SW and a marantz 7005 for my playstion game room. I have it set to LFE+main and 120 for htz and speakers to large. Freakin awesome sound
Where do I connect the subwoofer on the denon? Can't find the port
Excellent video! Thanks!
Thank you!
What’s best option for my soundbar main. Sub. Or main/sub.??
Hay man, thanks for all your videos, set everything with your tips, but i have question, i have big towers sourrouns too, if i set them to large as my front speakers, and set lfe+mail, does low frequency is sent to sourrouns also? Hop u get this and thank u for answer in advance, take care
Sorry for my english, hope it make sens what i wrote 😅✌️
I had to use Small/LFE settings, because in Large/LFE+Main my subwoofer goes crazy. The moment I turn it on, it makes very loud, continuous booming noise. The first time it scared the s*it out of me. Did you ever hear about such issue? What can be the cause? It happens even when my AVR unit is on standby. I thought those settings were mainly about personal preference.
I use Denon X3500H with Dali E-12F subwoofer, connected using Y-split cable (Subwoofer 1 -> Line In).
Better to run all small less taxing on the receiver subwoofer handles the lower frequency better rolled off at 80hz. Marantz receivers have the same feature and it makes the option to use LFE+ MAIN a must better choice.
Thanks for the helpful information
Your welcome!
I'm one of the confused one :-) play enjoy the video and I'm going to play around with this setting. To clarify you go small and you do LFE plus Main?
I have all speakers exept height in large. Fronts have dual 12", rears have dual 10". Center only dual 6.5" (but it plays great down to 50hz, fronts 22 hz, rears 25hz).
Sub is set to 100 hz, and the only reason I do not have heights in large is the fact that sub in PLUSS mode, only duplicate from fronts and center. Rears can hold their own just fine down to 25hz. And LFE is sub only anyways. I mess around a lot with settings, and always end up this way. The sub is rated down to 13hz, and really shakes things up. 🤪
Although an old guy, I have yet to have ever had a subwoofer. If I use the line level
"sub out" of my receiver, will the receivers volume control also control the volume of the sub?
I am thinking of the SVS, and this would help my decision. I know the SVS has a volume control of it's own amp, but I often need to adjust the volume quickly from my seat.
+E.Kent.D Never mind, that was a dumb question. I now realize the ways it can be done. I must have had a senior moment.
+E.Kent.D I've had senior moments since grade school, no worries! For those still in this particular moment, yes the main volume will control the sub volume proportionally. Thanks for chiming in, and don't be afraid to ask anything!
Is this option only applicable from Towers?
If so I have the REL-T5 which is a sub-bass sub is LFE the best option for me to run in this case.
The REL-T5 is a different animal in some ways. From what I can gather, they want you to run both line level and LFE to the sub, in which case you would just run them large and keep it on LFE, but I don't know for sure not having played with it. Best to check with them, or just use RCA input only into the sub and set all speakers to small. In that scenario, "LFE" or "LFE + Main" should produce the same result. It should only make a difference when speakers are set to large.
I suspect that if you ran "LFE + Main" and ran your speakers large and line level to the sub, you'd be getting too much signal to the sub. Again, I have no experience with the REL-T5's configuration. The "Large" and "Small" settings are not specific to towers. It's basically Bass managed (Small) and not bass managed (Large- full range).
www.subwoofer101.com/setting-up-your-gear/large-vs-small-lfe-main-double-bass-etc/
Hi, I have one question. My setup is 5.2.4 , and I'm using two 4 channel amp for front, surround and atmos, except Center channel. I know the center channel should be connected to a mono block amp, but for now till I buy an amp, Can I feed the single center channel speaker from AVR it self? Is it possible to damage the AVR's internal amp or no? because all the output should be set from pre amp to 9.1 and getting the only center channel from AVR amp, then bypassing and feed the rest for external amp from pre outs. So it means the internal AVR's amp only running the center channel. I don't know you understand what I mean or no? Thanks in advance.
If I'm not mistaken, I'm sure you can, but instead of the AVR powering nine speakers, it's only powering one.
As a disclaimer, of course, you should consult the manufacturer to be sure.
I haven't done so with the center channel, but I've done it with other channels without a problem on the AVRs that I run.
If I place 2 different brand and size of subs would that be a good idea, I have JLF212 and want to add SVS SB16 to my HT.
You probably want to stick with the same driver size. I tried this very thing (two 12 inch drivers with a 16) but with ported subs. I got some strange cancellations that had never been an issue before. I would check with SVS directly of course, but my experience with mixing subwoofers with different driver sizes hasn't panned out.
You can chat with SVS here: bit.ly/SVSsupport (affiliate link)
My thought is that you want to keep all subs brand and model matched. So either another F212, or dual SB-16 Ultras and put the JL on mothballs or up for sale. Of course you can always try them just for sport, but I'd put the Room EQ Wizard on it to check for cancellations.
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been using a AVR DENON 2000 for the last 8 years with the passive subwoofer from my Bose AM10s. And just upgraded to a Denon avr-x2700h, I have tried nearly every thing to get them working and the bass is just not there.
Denon believes that these new receivers don't support passive subs anymore, which I find hard to believe since I've been using the same set up for almost a decade. the only setting I have found where I'm getting bass is setting fronts as large, and the rest as small, and sub turned off. if I do any other settings, the bass is gone. in the bass settings I have the bass set as 120mhz
Rarely ever like videos but this just deserves it (running a Denon avr-s920 with two klipsch r-28f towers and a Yamaha floor firing sw12 and cheap surround speakers) earned +1 like and sub
Thanks, I really appreciate that!
Thanks so much. It is not a clear issue at all. Also my denon has sub 1 and 2. One has pre-out written on the bottom the setup assistant just tells you to plug it into 1. Hope this doesn’t make any difference. My floorstanding speakers say they are capable of low frequency’s but just don’t output much base. Thanks for the LFE + main tip.
I have a 2500h the audyssey on the amp is great 👍🏻
i might be a dummy but this helped me out a lot. I was always confused about this topic. I've always ran in small because that's what everyone says to do. I have a few speakers that i think were capable of running more bass. Now I know how. One question, when you go to large and lfe plus main to the individual crossover settings still count? Thanks for the video.
Not a dummy, this stuff isn't exactly taught in high school. Glad you found it useful! I still think small is the way to go, here's more info on it: www.subwoofer101.com/setting-up-your-gear/large-vs-small-lfe-main-double-bass-etc/
In short, when using LFE + Main with speakers set to Large, the crossover is the point at which the subwoofer(s) taper off, but does nothing to the towers as they get the same signal regardless of crossover in that case.
Thank you for this explanation,answered some questions for me.
Hey I’ve just purchased a Denon X2800H. Can you please help me setup LFE + Mains. At present I’m not getting much out of the sun when listening to music.
No problem, set all speakers to small and at least 80 hertz for each speaker. Personally, I do 90 hertz on towers, 110 hz on bookshelf, and 120 to 150 hz for small surrounds. Then use my Bass Hack Videos to further optimize. Especially adjusting subs by ear.
I have a Denon avr 1082. I cannot get the on screen menu/setup to show up! HELP
Hi.. I am using 4 tower for my fronts and surrounds and a centre chanel without a sub. Is it ok to set the four towers to large since i have no sub at the moemnt and leave the centre on small..Att at 80hertz...Thanks
The "Small" setting is another way of saying "Bass Managed". If your center has very small drivers, then 80 hertz would work. It's basically going to filter off frequencies below that, where normally those frequencies would be directed towards the subs. If your center is rated at 50 hertz, setting it to 40-60 hertz might be a better bet. Normally I say 80 hertz because that gives your sub plenty to work with, but without a sub the "Small" setting is just acting as a filter to protect your speakers and reduce the load on your AVR.
Hello thanks a lot for your advices , my speakers settings are the same then yours ! My amps is a Denon AVR x 1400h and this settings large for tower is better then small i think exactly the same then you! I have changed also in audyssey mode “ reference “ to “ bi amp” it’s pretty good! See you later , thanks you very much 😉
Denon AVR-591. Speakers set to large, Bass set to LFE+Main will not allow me to go full band on the large speakers, it only allows them to go down to 40hz, However setting it to LFE only it lets me go full band in the settings. LFE+Main takes the bass from the fronts and sends it to the sub along with the sub info. That's why it's "double bass" as it sends the double bass signal to the sub. LFE alone is the setting that lets the bass go through both. Try it in your own menu.
When set to large you are getting full band to your speakers no matter what, the crossover setting in LFE+Main is what gets added to the subs, so it's limiting what the subs get, the speaker output is unchanged.
Here is a more thorough explanation: www.subwoofer101.com/setting-up-your-gear/large-vs-small-lfe-main-double-bass-etc/
Bad ass, thank you. And thanks ed.