Should you set your SPEAKERS to LARGE?
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- Have you ever wondered if you should set your speakers to large in hopes that you can get better bass performance from your audio system? Well then I have a video for you! In this video, I'll talk about my experience trying to set this up for myself on my system, what issues I ran into and if I think it's even worth it to even try to get this all to work together.
Thanks for watching and if you enjoy this video, be sure to give a like and subscribe to the channel if you haven't already!
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TIMESTAMPS
Intro - 00:00
New gear, new (sometimes old) questions! - 00:22
This is NOT a tutorial video - 00:57
Why does this topic come up at all? - 01:36
What is bass management? - 01:44
What happens when you set this to small - 01:58
What happens when you change this setting to large? - 02:25
You'll also need to enable LFE+Main - 02:43
Why would someone want to set their speakers to large? - 03:03
Lower frequencies need more power - 03:52
REW measurements - 04:31
Baseline/reference measurements - 04:46
Setting Front speakers to LARGE - 07:26
Turning on LFE+Main - 09:34
Crossover testing with Large and LFE+Main - 10:09
LET... ME... IN!!!!! - 10:38
Looking at all LFE+Main measurements - 11:13
My final tweaked/optimized response when speakers set to Large plus LFE+Main enabled - 11:58
Comparing baseline to speakers set to large/LFE+Main engaged - 12:32
Why did I make this video? - 14:09 - Наука та технологія
I wish receivers Stopped using Small/Large. It should be “Bass Managed? Yes/No”. They make it more confusing than necessary.
Your measurements make sense. With large speakers the bass in those channels only goes to the speakers. Large with LFE+Mains send the bass to both the speakers and the subs without any crossover. I appreciate the effort you put into your channel.
Agreed.
On Denon receiver if you turn subs of it locks the mains on "full range".
That's easier to understand for folks but it doesn't show until after.
Let's Go Brandon!
Fantastic video! Thanks.
Very helpful, thank you
Really impressed with your content! Do you have a tutorial on how to use REW and take measurements? Your style is really easy to understand and you explain things so well, great job 👏
yep he has a useful playlist
Amazing video as always
I have an Denon X6500 and a NAD poweramp. One thing i that i have discovered or at least i think i have discovered, are the there is a difference between speakers large and crossover settings. So for me it does not sound like the crossover are disabled when i put my speakers to large, and i can hear difference in bass if i play around with the crossover settings. I prefer the speakers to be at 80hz because the subs and the speakers does not play well if they compete under these frequenzys, but there seem to me to be more variables on this settings overall. I have my setup in a small livingroom, and front speakers are large for the room. Dual 8" inch drivers in the fronts, and Dual 14inc subwoofers at each side.
As you said, your speakers in your room are the big variables. My mains ( towers) have an F3 of 20 Hz in my room, along with a +15db peak centered around 50Hz. This was a music only system with a integrated amp, when I added a small (10") sub, I found that running it out of phase knocked down the 50Hz peak and flattened the overall bass response still kept my 20Hz F3. In essence, my sub was acting as an active bass trap.
Fast forward to now, I expanded this system to become a second HT system (5.2, with a second identical smaller sub) and am finding that using LFE plus main still works best overall. The 2 subs ended up at the ~ 1/3 and 2/3 locations on the righ wall ( back wall is open to the great room below) and the response curve is similar to yours except 20Hz comes down to about +3db.
So to your point, measure, measure measure with tweaks in between to find out what works best with your room and speakers. Larger/ more capable subs would likely change this equation but room is tight and REW told me that other possible locations for subs give me som ugly nulls at one of my 3 seats that I use to setup my system.
Love your instructional videos on REW use and MiniDSP use ( my other HT setup uses one)
When you set your speakers to large and use the lfe+main setting it allows you to set an overlap crossover. So the speakers still play a full range signal signal down to 20 hz then it copies the bass below the crossover and sends that to the sub. For example If you set the overlap crossover at 40 hz. Your speaker set to large will still play a full range signal then it copies everything from 40 hz and below and sends that to the sub. It looks like the null at 70 hz is in your mains so, that's why you don't see a change when you adjust the overlap crossover. You did see a change when you adjusted the sub distance. When you set your speakers to small at 110 hz the null in your mains at 70 hz goes away.
Hello,
Thanks for this content an congrets for it. Very good.
But, I wonder what should be you opinion with monitors speaks connected as large speakers and having a pais of Rel's with High frequency input connection. As you know, Rel says we can connect their subs directly to spreaker connections using the HFI, or directly to the amp's speakers outputs.
Thanks.
Denon finally got rid of the "large" and "small" terminology in their menus. Now the crossover settings show a set of frequencies and also "full range." In other words, instead of "large" you would use "full range." There is no mention of "small." Great job Denon!
Interesting video! My speaker set is 2nd hand so don't have a subwoofer (yet) so obviously doesn't apply to me yet as my speakers play full range without subwoofer plugged in. my speakers seem to go down to 30hz (you hear some sound at 10hz and 20hz but it's mostly tiny tiny tiny volume) but after 50hz is where the volume spikes right up (this is noticed by ear before I do measurements with spl meter, but only one that sounds louder after that is 90hz and 100hz the rest frequencies above that all sound the same level as below 90hz. So my room "amplifies 90hz and 100hz") so defo can't wait to get a subwoofer as sounds it will make a difference for lower frequencies. I'm guessing I should leave my 4ft tall speakers to small when i do as a basic setup. what should I set crossover to I'm a beginner with subwoofers? While my speakers play the low frequencies quite well (my friends say I'm like an actual cinema compared to theirs) it's defo low in volume according to ear listening never mind with measurements. Some people say 80hz no matter what and others say 120hz. But obviously speakers are different, so say 50hz above is all good. Do I set crossover to 50? (sorry if this sounds dumb never had a subwoofer and want to educate myself before I get one)
Contrary to conventional practise, after experimenting with various settings and crossovers, setting my front towers to LARGE and running them Full Band with LFE + Main works the best, vs running them SMALL with a 60 or 80hz crossover.
Same here with s809 jamos
I run it exactly the same and works best in movies.
I bet plenty of people never tried.
And yea, I think you miss out if you set HPF to 80hz, since there is a lot directional bass you loose from specific speaker.
I can feel explosion comming more from some speaker when set to Full Range.
@@mboljar absolutely agree!
Great video! Any chance you'll ever do software reviews from an audio/video standpoint? Like games, movies and music?
Thank you! And in response to your question, that is a DEFINITE yes with subs a no to the music part. Haha. But I absolutely will start doing A/V reviews of movies and games. Been thinking about it and planning it for a while.
Thanks for this video, very informative. Easy to understand 👌
So what would you set emotiva airmotiv b1 + to? Or center and surround? My receiver, an onkyo doesn't have large or small but 80 100 hz etc
Any experience with mains with built in subs? I’m running Mythos STL’s.
I have a anthem receiver that does not have a large or small settingi use Goldenear one r with built in subs and two PSA subs which would you recomend for settings as i am also able to play fronts with no subs
Rad BRAD!! I feel so lucky to be one of the first get your info today. Thanks as always!!
I sure wish I could hire you to test and adjust my system.
Brad, you are so right about the power draw on a typical AVR when you demand it to supply bass to the speakers while set to "large".
A properly set up subwoofer, or two, will blend into the audio and not attract attention to itself and will allow much more power to the speakers.
AVRs have a very limited power supply; unless you spend yourself into bankruptcy.
I bought a pair of Emotiva T-Zero towers to match my Emotiva C1+ center.
In order to blend in my sub I started at 80Hz and then raised and lower the crossovers until I found the highest reading on my SPL meter with a 100Hz tone.
I found the best output and tonality was with settings below 80Hz.
Since I don't have a PC feeding my AVR or a Mini DSP in the system running REW might not offer much help.
Other than showing me how bad my system is. Hahaha. Better not to know I guess.
Please keep the great info coming. KG
Thank you Kevin! Always good to hear from you!
@@HomeTheaterGamer Hey! Always good to hear from you to, Sir!
BTW, I developed a Halo addiction recently and it's great fun to play on the Atmos system - DANG!
Hi there, for Anthem MRX 540 how do I set my speakers to large on Arc genesis and UI. Many thanks.
Hi, really enjoying your videos. I have a question about house curves. If you setup a house curve with miniDSP and then run Room Correction Software, wouldn't the Room Correction Software try to remove the house curve?? How does it know that's the curve you want unless you set it in the Room Correction Software?
@@Nuitarius I'm asking becasue every miniDSP guide I've seen, state to apply the House curve in the miniDSP, then run Room Correction, that just seems backards to me, Room Correction is going to be applied first to the signal. then that signal reaches the miniDSP, wouldn't you EQ for the House curve you want after Room Correction?? Why is it recommended to EQ the house curve before Room Correction?
Did you remember to back the receiver out of the crossover menu? Sometimes you have to back out before changes take affect.
I was using the Denon web interface when testing the different crossovers. The crossovers update once you change them. I also verified the crossovers on the the receiver itself since I wasn’t getting a change in response.
Yea i never understood this. All room eqs set my front stage to large with an 80hz crosser. Whats the point of the eqs if “theyre all wrong” i feel like i lose clarity when i set them all to small. 🤷🏻♂️
You know something mate i want buy a microphone umik 1 to make bêtter my sound with my 1 sub for now but i dont know hot to install microphone and what to do with the programm can you help me a little🙏🙏🙏
the automatic calibration of my Sony 590 AVR sets my fronts to large and they are Superzeros, with a low frequency limit of 80hz. I set them to small and the receiver sets them back to large. does it do that because the calibration settings make it do it? if so, I guess I should reset the receiver.
REL company recommends to set all speakers to large when they works with their subwoofers
Correct, and they also say set HZ at 40 and adjust the calibrated distances individually (further away) to help with delay. I was a bit hesitant (I have Audiolab 6000a and Denon 3700 AVR) with Wharfedale Linton left and right speakers. Still playing around with settings and currently have all crossovers at 60 HZ (including Elac bookshelves surrounds).
My Denon after calibration audyssey sets the surround speakers bookshelf to large , I don't know why , I changed them to small
Hello
I have the Klipsch RF7 mk3 and the 64 Mk3 I set them to big or small
What I don't get is that the only crossover setting I've ever seen is on the back of subwoofers. How does that affect the behavior of the other speakers? There's no wire running back to the receiver from the subwoofer (to tell the receiver what the crossover setting is at).
Should i set my Tower Speakers to large if i dont have dedicated subwoofers?
so you get more bass but its not comming from the towers so it wouldnt be surround bass though. isnt that a bit of a downfall if u get no bass from the towers or is it still giving tower bass with small setting just at higher freq
I think with Denon/Marantz you have to go all the way out of the menus for the settings to activate, this might be the problem with the change in xo if you have measured while in the menus. At least i was told this on AVS forum.
That’s definitely the case with the distance setting, although things change a bit when using their web interface via IP control. In any other mode the crossovers change instantly and the measurements indicate that. It’s only when the settings are set like they are in the video that the issue/problem comes up. It’s really strange.
@@HomeTheaterGamerhad that exact same problem with Yamaha Receiver
Man my problem right now is i got a total of 16 speakers 4 ohm 15 watts appiece. I would like to use just 8 and I need at least 100 watt capacity and 8 or 16 ohms. Now if I have to ill put all 16 in the cab. Anyone got an idea? I know series parallel i got that childhood math block hittin me. To do my wattage thing parallel out of the question
I set them to large, after adding some Rel high-level subs to each bed-level channel... so I got 5 subs and it sounds amazing.
Hey Brad! Thanks for your great videos!
I dont have a subwoofer. Should all my speakers be set to large?
For reference, I have Klipsch RP-8000f mains, RP-504c Centre and RP-502s as surrounds.
Thanks for your help!
Thanks for the comment Kory! Just looking at the specs for each speaker, I would possibly try setting your mains to Large and leave the others set to small. Reason for this is that your mains have a rated response down to 32Hz, while your center and surrounds are rated down to 58Hz. Leaving the center and surrounds set to small with a crossover around 80Hz with your mains set to Large would probably be what I’d start with.
I don’t have personal experience with those Klipsch speakers, so keep that in mind and go with what sounds best to you.
Thanks Brad! I invested in an used SB1000 so I've been messing around with that! Umik1 coming this week as well!
Do you recommend setting the level on the sub above 75db? We often listen at low levels because of our little guys room next door and I'm wondering if bumping the sub up 5db or so would give me that punch I'm missing?
Thanks!
Something is wrong with your AVR. It obv. does not change with the setting for the crossover points for the fronts. Repair are in order.
Interesting. I’ll have to look into this further. Like I said in the video, this only happens when the speakers are set to Large and LFE+Main is turned on. If speakers are set to small everything works as it should, even if I turn on LFE+Main.
When you set your crossover to large you are not effecting bass management, you are just sending a full range signal to those specific speakers in this case towers that can handle more than 80hz. Now it gets tricky here, if your using only a single reciver to run all your speakers i do not recomend using this setting as it will leave you with no headroom as you crank up the volume you will enter the dangerous clipping signals wish can damage any speaker. This large setting is best use if you have big towers and your using your reciver preamp outs with external amplifiers dedicated to the towers. This will eliminate your main reciver from all this strain and give you more power to the rest of the speakers. The best advise to you all is get a external amp for your front left and right if you have towers and an external amp for your center. Then leave your 850 watts reciver if you have one if not i suggest you get one to run all your surrounds. No need to get external amps for surrounds as your powerfull reciver with the load lifted of it will use that extra power and run your surrounds without strain. Do the math 850 watts 9 channel will send about 94 watts to each speaker and it will be less if you set the fronts to large , now only running 6 surrounds and eliminating the front 3 wish are the one that drain more your amps power supply . so lets see now only running 6 speakers 850÷6 = 140 , but what does this mean ,that my surrounds now each get 140 watts well not really it means that now you got more headroom in the amp section to play with cause remember your surrounds are not at full power all the time and your not going to be listening at pass reference volumes neither so your surrounds will defenetly will get more that enough power when call upon. I insist in having 2 subs in front close to towers one or 2 subs in rear 180 degrees out of phase. If facing the front subs to prevent bass cancellations.
Try setting the rear sub same phase as front.. For me I got more pressure...not less.. BTW I have pre pro set up.. all speakers set to large
Bass is omni? Should I try to make it directional? Treble is directional? Should I try to make it omni?
I guess it depends on the enviroment
So.. Doesn't this essentially mean that having tower speakers is pointless for anyone who wants to use subwoofers?
Exactly
Having powerfull amplifier and capable speakers, one can definitely go "Large" because of adding more bass sources to even out bass response across the listening positions. Similar of adding more subs. Definitely with some PEQ ond subs and Audyssey/Dirac or any other Auto room EQ on speakers. Also the right phase alligment is the key to make it work toghether. Sort of Earl Geddes approach.
Not that easy because the best placement for your speakers is hardly ever the best for bass and you will need Uber expensive towers to match what an entry level sub can do so yeah...not such a good idea
Get a REL to benefit from full range.
Time allignment is not phase alligment. Different topics.
I’m running Klipsch RF-7 iii’s in my HT and they are at large 40hz with LFE+Main enabled. My Subs get enough bass output to shake the walls.
Now, if you’re speakers have 10inch woofers or larger, and can go down to the 30hz range or lower, if you have the gear to drive them then yeah you should go with the large crossover. I mean… you paid all that money for them and you are cutting them off at there knees.
The 80hz crossover is specified for THX certified speakers that can’t produce much bass and it doesn’t work with all types of speakers. Read you’re manual or call the speaker company and ask them what would the ideal crossover be for my speaker.
Exactly , I have Legacy Focus fronts with 2 12" Subwoofers built in , powered by a Legacy 600W per channel amp . My Marantz Avr is set to front (Large) and LFE+Main enabled . It is insane and sounds much better than having the fronts (small) and relying only on the Subwoofer .
You are not allowed to close your office door hooman! 🤣
Riddle me this ,batman. Considering it's recommended to run speakers as small, what's the point of buying expensive speakers that are capable of handling full range in a theater surround sound system?
....so, you use $130 tower speakers in your room? I would be very surprised, if they could play the whole frequency range down to 20-30 Hz! Combine that with the fact that you have 4(!) subs, it is no wonder that you are better off setting your L+R to small. I'm not so sure that most people have comparable equipment.