@@megasauruss Yes, Dream refers to him as a man too. Angels don't really have genders, but Lucifer is continuously referred to using male descriptors in the show. Having a woman playing him is just another way of showing this lack of gender. Same way how Tilda Swinton played a male Gabriel in the Constantine movie, which also worked for the same reason. So this isn't really a "gender-swapped" casting in the traditional sense, because they are still playing the same "male" version of these characters.
@@mieroth Um, Lucifer is never referred to as a man or woman in the show, same as in the comic book, where they are genderless. In both versions of Sandman, Lucifer speaks using third plural person (we/our/us), and the others refers to them as "sire", "lightbringer", "morningstar", "ruler" and other neutral terms.
@@7felipe14 "At the top of his mansion, he waits for us, alone". A Hope in Hell, page 8. The show is careful to avoid casually gendered terms like "Lord of Hell" (though "sire" means "male forebear", there's a very thin margin to argue that here it is used as a kinda-genderless term of respect), but comic book Lucifer presented as male and was addressed as male. The fact that he was created without any genitals shouldn't be anybody's business.
My two cents on the contest: the demon states the game is based on skill, transformation and confidence. Lucifer could name something that trumps or destroys hope but she wouldn't really believe it; she has the most hope of anyone since she hopes to challenge god and make it back to heaven.
@@commiebastard3633 @Commie Bastard Yes and no. It could bring in another Endless, but that's not likely the problem. Despair doesn't kill hope. It can dampen it but not kill it. The most likely options are either Lucifer knew something that could kill itand felt that killing hope would rob Hell of a concept they abuse frequently, or they weren't willing to kill hope because they're not above having hope themselves.
One thing to add about the challenge, what they described, the other felt, so when Dream mentions being hope, Lucifer felt that lingering hope of returning to the Silver City. It's also why they were so angered towards Dream; they resented being made to feel such.
Yea, I think the comment about "what power would hell have if those imprisoned there couldn't dream of heaven" was about how you need to be able to dream to truly torture, but also a dig at Lucifer's dream specifically of one day ruling the silver city. Like, she could imprison him, but he'd take away her power and ambition.
I think that the idea is hope overcomes all. It can never truly be defeated. Even in despair, there has to be a fragment of hope that things *could* get better.
Hope can be defeated, like anything really. But the reason Lucifer didn't counter Hope because well, Lucifer hopes to return to the Silver City, Lucifer is literally the hope in hell. Countering Hope means recognising Lucifer's existence is futile.
More than that, because they feel the effects of the "game," Morpheus actually forced Lucifer to *feel* the hope, possibly for the first time since ever.
Dream Lord is seen in all cultures in how they are themself. So Nada was the first human on earth she was black so she sees Dream Lord as a black dream lord.
In the comic there's a cameo with the Martian Manhunter, who sees Dream as a giant flaming skull. It even gets 4th-wall jumping meta - the reason that *we* see Dream as the pasty white guy is because that's normative in the culture of us are watching the show (or reading the comic).
Last line between Lucifer and Dream was one of the best lines I ever heard in any movie! Why would Hell be so bad if you didn't know the power of Heaven? Even the Demons of Hell would chose Heaven over their present state if they had to do it over again. Great show!
lucifer was thrown out of heaven because of his rebellion. He didn't want to serve God there, but he covets it all the same, it's the most beautiful place he has ever known, and on top of that, he's condemned to be in Hell, a horrible place, a horribleness which elevates infinitely when compared to perfection itself. Lucifer dreams of Heaven non-stop. He hopes to comeback one day. That is the power Morpheus has over him.
Great reaction! I think with John, he was corrupted and driven mad by the ruby, and the foundation of his evil stems from living with and being made to suffer from the lies of his mother, and in his madness he believes that lies are the evil within humanity that he wants to save the world from. And he's addicted to the ruby in his way, which is why he killed the ones who tried to take 'his' ruby away. He's in the vein of many of the best villians, the ones who believe in the rightness and righteousness of their worldview and to their own minds are not evil.
The reason Lucifer gets taken aback by hope is that Gaimans Lucifer is apathetic to pretty much everything and during the game you are forced to feel the opponents move so when Lucifer feels hope for the first time in eons he's completely blown away
Hope was probably the best answer in this situation because Lucifer ironically is all filled with hope as she herself is always pursuing it. Actually come to think about it, Hell itself is the one place that will always be filled with hope as it's the place where beings have hit rock bottom, and they'll always pursue hope that one day they'll escape it. After the Sandman stories, Lucifer's solo comic was about trying to escape the Presence predestination and Lucifer went to some pretty lengthy extremes to get it done.
I read a theory that says that, even if despair can defeat hope, Lucifer can't say "I'm despair", because Despair is one of the Endless and that would put a sibling against each other, which is against their rules. Lucifer wasn't willing to go there just so a random demon could have a random helm.
@@erikperhs_ That's true woow.. I hadn't thought of that! why didnt he use it to try to escape or something??? haha! ..Or maybe it was a setup from the beginning so Dream could fight Lucifer and lose.
Glacier kinda has a quiet intensity that blends well with Ember's calm yet expressive demeanor... esp. in discussions. Never extra, just a couple of dudes hanging out. That vibe reminds me so much of my older brothers (who I rarely ever see anymore) back at home, it's really pretty cool to watch.... thank you, boys 😊😊😊 (.....can't w8 to see ur ep 6 & finale reactions btw, yay!)
You were wondering what Nada did to him to end up in hell. Their love was forbidden and when the sun saw what they were doing it sent a great fireball that destroyed Nada’s palace, which caused her to kill herself because the grief was too much for her. Morpheus/Kai’ckul followed her soul to the afterlife and asked her to still be his queen in The Dreaming, but she refused him and so he damned her to Hell.
Dream threatened to take away his dream of heaven which to Lucifer is the cruelest thing dream could do. That's the only thing lucifer has that really keeps him going "dreaming of one day getting back into heaven", In his dreams he can dream about how he was before the fall.
The subtext of the line about dreaming of heaven is that dreaming is all Lucifer has left of home and God. Morpheus can't beat Lucifer, but can take away the only thing Lucifer actually values, which was his trump card the whole time.
What? Dante's Inferno was adapted into a video game??? Wow! Also, finally someone who recognizes the references to Dante's interpretation of hell in The Sandman.
All cultures see The Endless in different forms, Martian Manhunter saw Dream as a collum of fire for example. They are beyond any race, species, gender, ect.
Just a little FYI about the comic. Sandman contained a multitude of stories. Some of them are story arcs. Some stories were single issues, some stories were someone telling another story. So there are a lot of layers. Hopeful well get more seasons so some of the stories set up this season can be told. Some comic book trivia about this ep and last. The comic started in the proper DC universe and used several of it's characters. Now while Hollywood licensing rights won't let them use some of them in this adaptation you've met several already. You know about the whole John Constantine issue. In the comics John Dee is a foe of the Justice League (who cameo in the comic). I won't mention his super-villain name because that's not who he is in this show and it would be confusing. John Constantine and Matthew (when he was a human) were both recurring characters in the Swamp Thing comics
The Endless are more than gods. They are aspects of all life distilled and personified. He is literally dreams themself, and his power set is accordingly ridiculous. 🤣
Im really liking this reactions :) keep em going Kai'Ckul its one of the many names that Morpheus has been called trough the time. its not exactly on another lifetime, its more another time of his life where he was called that. You nailed it with the concepts, its exactly that, the Endless are each sibling a concept. I dont wanna be that guy but the fight game was on the book, there Dream fight agains the Demon instead of Lucifer but the first thing said its "Im a dire wolf" from the book droped on 1989, so it just a coincidence but a cool one tho. I think Lucifer couldn't say "Im despair" because Despair is a Monarch of his realm, and she cant call her for nothing, some politics of the kings. Sandman its a storie about stories, it goes back and fort with some characters all the time, thats just something setting up for whats come on a second season, because its something developed later on the comics (we get a very little more info about her at first but the storie about her and Dream its on something like the 4th book i think), thats why i dont wanna spoil anything about it, she is Nada, an old lost love of Morpheus who was the queen of the first humans on earth, but to understand why he changed his race, its because the endless "personification" changes depending who is viewing them (its not like they control it, it just depending on the cultural background of who is viewing them), thats why shee see him as a black man, because when she met him she didn't know any white man, for example when Dream talks to cats, they see him as a big cat, there its even a scene on the graphic novel where Martian Manhunter see Dream as "Lord l'zoril" a flying head on fire from Mars. About Rosemary, its actually very sad whats happens to her on the comic, she told him that his husband its a hitman for the mob, then after some talk when she start to trust him, John Dee ask her if it was true about his hitman husband, she says it is not true it was just because she was scared, so then he says something like "well that wouldn't make any changes anyway" and shoot her, there was no dog on the car neither i think
Technically Hope drives away despair. I would argue that disappointment can dash hope, but a shapeshifter showdown like this "Oldest Game" or the battle between Merlin and Madam Mim from Disney's Sword in the Stone (another classic version) usually is revealing of the characters and who they are... everyone has themes and strategies that shape their options. Dream was sort of a hunter (he's hunting the tools and the Corinthian), hawklike, he is a world sort of (the Dreaming), he is something like a universe, and he is Hope in a way, as we've seen in this episode. Lucifer is a terrifying predator like a dire wolf, serpentine, a corrupting disease, a fiery nova, the beast of judgement and anti-life is very Prince of Darkness-y. But Lucifer can't be disappointment, because he isn't (and can't be, in front of his assembled forces) disappointing, by his nature.
Lucifer itself dreams of heaven of returning to the silver city and therefore even dream has a place of power not only over the damned who dream but over its sovereign
Watching a few of these reactions late. But if you haven’t read up, Sandman is part of DC so if you go with that perspective, Lucifer no matter whose list, is always in the top 5 of the strongest DC characters. But because of their functions Lucifer just can’t go destroy dream because he’s one of the ones created by the creator himself. Which is why they’re so focused on protocols. They can’t just go warring with each other.
It’s not really the point of the game to be something necessarily more powerful, but to stump the opponent on what counters it, or lead them to a point they aren’t willing to go. I think it’s an interesting twist, and works better against Lucifer than against Choronzan. From the dire wolf to the anti life, they were all things that are physically manifest, but whatever effect they had is ultimately virtual, only contained within the game. Once it’s over, they’re in the same physical condition as they were before starting, the damage doesn’t go beyond the game, with the only actual consequences being that the defeated has to honor whatever was wagered. Hope, however, is conceptual rather than physical, and ended up being what actually hurt Lucifer even beyond the game. Unwilling to make it worse by taking what the next move might entail, Lucifer throws in the towel.
I don't know if y'all have watched it, but if you haven't Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood is an amazing show with under thirty minute episodes. It's very good and carries many of the same themes as Avatar.
The infinity stones have nothing on this beings or work outside of marvel Darkside had the full gauntlet with the stones and he throw it way because he was way more powerful and on a higher scale. That being said The Endless are above new gods like darkside. Dream is the 3rd oldest and strongest behind Death (second eldest and strongest) and Destiny (the eldest and first of the Endless).
*Despair cannot kill hope. No matter the amount of despair, we still hope. Sometimes despair even strengthens hope.*
Lucifer don't want to kill hope because he's still hoping that he can come back to heaven.
He?
@@megasauruss Yes, Dream refers to him as a man too. Angels don't really have genders, but Lucifer is continuously referred to using male descriptors in the show. Having a woman playing him is just another way of showing this lack of gender. Same way how Tilda Swinton played a male Gabriel in the Constantine movie, which also worked for the same reason. So this isn't really a "gender-swapped" casting in the traditional sense, because they are still playing the same "male" version of these characters.
@@mieroth Um, Lucifer is never referred to as a man or woman in the show, same as in the comic book, where they are genderless. In both versions of Sandman, Lucifer speaks using third plural person (we/our/us), and the others refers to them as "sire", "lightbringer", "morningstar", "ruler" and other neutral terms.
@@7felipe14 "At the top of his mansion, he waits for us, alone". A Hope in Hell, page 8. The show is careful to avoid casually gendered terms like "Lord of Hell" (though "sire" means "male forebear", there's a very thin margin to argue that here it is used as a kinda-genderless term of respect), but comic book Lucifer presented as male and was addressed as male. The fact that he was created without any genitals shouldn't be anybody's business.
My two cents on the contest: the demon states the game is based on skill, transformation and confidence. Lucifer could name something that trumps or destroys hope but she wouldn't really believe it; she has the most hope of anyone since she hopes to challenge god and make it back to heaven.
She could have said Despair, but that would invoke his sister which could get messy with their rules and protocols.
@@commiebastard3633 @Commie Bastard Yes and no. It could bring in another Endless, but that's not likely the problem. Despair doesn't kill hope. It can dampen it but not kill it. The most likely options are either Lucifer knew something that could kill itand felt that killing hope would rob Hell of a concept they abuse frequently, or they weren't willing to kill hope because they're not above having hope themselves.
That look on Lucifers face when dream mentions dreaming of heaven is the perfect union of pain and anger
One thing to add about the challenge, what they described, the other felt, so when Dream mentions being hope, Lucifer felt that lingering hope of returning to the Silver City. It's also why they were so angered towards Dream; they resented being made to feel such.
"how dare you make me feel feelings!" Lucy
Yea, I think the comment about "what power would hell have if those imprisoned there couldn't dream of heaven" was about how you need to be able to dream to truly torture, but also a dig at Lucifer's dream specifically of one day ruling the silver city. Like, she could imprison him, but he'd take away her power and ambition.
I think that the idea is hope overcomes all. It can never truly be defeated. Even in despair, there has to be a fragment of hope that things *could* get better.
Hope can be defeated, like anything really. But the reason Lucifer didn't counter Hope because well, Lucifer hopes to return to the Silver City, Lucifer is literally the hope in hell. Countering Hope means recognising Lucifer's existence is futile.
@@basicsimp8798 thats literally means that hope is unstoppable. At least in this story
Dream probably also said hope because hope is what Nada (the woman he sent to hell for 10,000 years) clings to.
Also: hope is what gives the suffering of hell meaning and contrast. without it hell would crumble..
@@basicsimp8798 *Your logic proves hope cannot be defeated.*
Lucifer craves to go to Heaven. That's her Hope
So that "dream of heaven" line was directed at Lucifer that's why it hit so hard. Brilliant!
More than that, because they feel the effects of the "game," Morpheus actually forced Lucifer to *feel* the hope, possibly for the first time since ever.
Love that the amulter of protection also warns the weare of any potential danger. That's why it reacted when the cashier tried to call the 911
Darkseid has ever searched for the anti life equation, the thing Lucifer said could devour a universe, another connection to the DC comics universe.
17:10 People trapped in Hell dream of being able to reach Heaven. Without those dreams Hell would have nothing to torture it's inhabitants with.
Dream Lord is seen in all cultures in how they are themself. So Nada was the first human on earth she was black so she sees Dream Lord as a black dream lord.
In the comic there's a cameo with the Martian Manhunter, who sees Dream as a giant flaming skull.
It even gets 4th-wall jumping meta - the reason that *we* see Dream as the pasty white guy is because that's normative in the culture of us are watching the show (or reading the comic).
@@elbruces Yes, you can even see it as a joke. "If you are reading this then clearly you're a goth."
@@elbruces lmfao normative, acting like yt ppl were the only ppl to exist in the 80s
Last line between Lucifer and Dream was one of the best lines I ever heard in any movie! Why would Hell be so bad if you didn't know the power of Heaven? Even the Demons of Hell would chose Heaven over their present state if they had to do it over again. Great show!
lucifer was thrown out of heaven because of his rebellion. He didn't want to serve God there, but he covets it all the same, it's the most beautiful place he has ever known, and on top of that, he's condemned to be in Hell, a horrible place, a horribleness which elevates infinitely when compared to perfection itself. Lucifer dreams of Heaven non-stop. He hopes to comeback one day. That is the power Morpheus has over him.
Great reaction! I think with John, he was corrupted and driven mad by the ruby, and the foundation of his evil stems from living with and being made to suffer from the lies of his mother, and in his madness he believes that lies are the evil within humanity that he wants to save the world from. And he's addicted to the ruby in his way, which is why he killed the ones who tried to take 'his' ruby away. He's in the vein of many of the best villians, the ones who believe in the rightness and righteousness of their worldview and to their own minds are not evil.
The reason Lucifer gets taken aback by hope is that Gaimans Lucifer is apathetic to pretty much everything and during the game you are forced to feel the opponents move so when Lucifer feels hope for the first time in eons he's completely blown away
Hope was probably the best answer in this situation because Lucifer ironically is all filled with hope as she herself is always pursuing it. Actually come to think about it, Hell itself is the one place that will always be filled with hope as it's the place where beings have hit rock bottom, and they'll always pursue hope that one day they'll escape it.
After the Sandman stories, Lucifer's solo comic was about trying to escape the Presence predestination and Lucifer went to some pretty lengthy extremes to get it done.
I read a theory that says that, even if despair can defeat hope, Lucifer can't say "I'm despair", because Despair is one of the Endless and that would put a sibling against each other, which is against their rules. Lucifer wasn't willing to go there just so a random demon could have a random helm.
..Not just any random helm by the way. xD
@@Cangaca777 well it was, because the demon couldn't even use it for anything haha
@@erikperhs_ That's true woow.. I hadn't thought of that! why didnt he use it to try to escape or something??? haha!
..Or maybe it was a setup from the beginning so Dream could fight Lucifer and lose.
Glacier kinda has a quiet intensity that blends well with Ember's calm yet expressive demeanor... esp. in discussions. Never extra, just a couple of dudes hanging out.
That vibe reminds me so much of my older brothers (who I rarely ever see anymore) back at home, it's really pretty cool to watch.... thank you, boys 😊😊😊
(.....can't w8 to see ur ep 6 & finale reactions btw, yay!)
Thanks for hanging out with us 🤜🤛🐉 yea episode 5 and 6 are incredible
@@ReactionDragonz lesgoooo ♥️🔥🔥🔥
In the book Rosemary's story is very different this was wonderful
Last thing in Pandora’s box was hope
You were wondering what Nada did to him to end up in hell. Their love was forbidden and when the sun saw what they were doing it sent a great fireball that destroyed Nada’s palace, which caused her to kill herself because the grief was too much for her. Morpheus/Kai’ckul followed her soul to the afterlife and asked her to still be his queen in The Dreaming, but she refused him and so he damned her to Hell.
Dream threatened to take away his dream of heaven which to Lucifer is the cruelest thing dream could do. That's the only thing lucifer has that really keeps him going "dreaming of one day getting back into heaven", In his dreams he can dream about how he was before the fall.
The trees with people in them are the forest of suicides, as doing so was once a sin
... Still a sin.
@@genevap3475 the only sin is that we were unable to help them such that they no longer wanted to end their lives
The subtext of the line about dreaming of heaven is that dreaming is all Lucifer has left of home and God. Morpheus can't beat Lucifer, but can take away the only thing Lucifer actually values, which was his trump card the whole time.
Lucifer tapped out because she didnt want to kill hope of her leaving hell
What? Dante's Inferno was adapted into a video game??? Wow!
Also, finally someone who recognizes the references to Dante's interpretation of hell in The Sandman.
All cultures see The Endless in different forms, Martian Manhunter saw Dream as a collum of fire for example. They are beyond any race, species, gender, ect.
'..I'm gonna chase you out of earth' Max Romeo (1976)
Just a little FYI about the comic. Sandman contained a multitude of stories. Some of them are story arcs. Some stories were single issues, some stories were someone telling another story. So there are a lot of layers. Hopeful well get more seasons so some of the stories set up this season can be told.
Some comic book trivia about this ep and last. The comic started in the proper DC universe and used several of it's characters. Now while Hollywood licensing rights won't let them use some of them in this adaptation you've met several already. You know about the whole John Constantine issue. In the comics John Dee is a foe of the Justice League (who cameo in the comic). I won't mention his super-villain name because that's not who he is in this show and it would be confusing. John Constantine and Matthew (when he was a human) were both recurring characters in the Swamp Thing comics
I love this depiction of Satan Ngl and I see people saying she and it actually isn’t a he or she
The Endless are more than gods.
They are aspects of all life distilled and personified.
He is literally dreams themself, and his power set is accordingly ridiculous. 🤣
Im really liking this reactions :) keep em going
Kai'Ckul its one of the many names that Morpheus has been called trough the time. its not exactly on another lifetime, its more another time of his life where he was called that.
You nailed it with the concepts, its exactly that, the Endless are each sibling a concept.
I dont wanna be that guy but the fight game was on the book, there Dream fight agains the Demon instead of Lucifer but the first thing said its "Im a dire wolf" from the book droped on 1989, so it just a coincidence but a cool one tho.
I think Lucifer couldn't say "Im despair" because Despair is a Monarch of his realm, and she cant call her for nothing, some politics of the kings.
Sandman its a storie about stories, it goes back and fort with some characters all the time, thats just something setting up for whats come on a second season, because its something developed later on the comics (we get a very little more info about her at first but the storie about her and Dream its on something like the 4th book i think), thats why i dont wanna spoil anything about it, she is Nada, an old lost love of Morpheus who was the queen of the first humans on earth, but to understand why he changed his race, its because the endless "personification" changes depending who is viewing them (its not like they control it, it just depending on the cultural background of who is viewing them), thats why shee see him as a black man, because when she met him she didn't know any white man, for example when Dream talks to cats, they see him as a big cat, there its even a scene on the graphic novel where Martian Manhunter see Dream as "Lord l'zoril" a flying head on fire from Mars.
About Rosemary, its actually very sad whats happens to her on the comic, she told him that his husband its a hitman for the mob, then after some talk when she start to trust him, John Dee ask her if it was true about his hitman husband, she says it is not true it was just because she was scared, so then he says something like "well that wouldn't make any changes anyway" and shoot her, there was no dog on the car neither i think
Excited for whats to come !!! ;)
sick thumbnail for this one
Great conversation after.
LMAO NOT THE TURTLEMAN SONG 😂😂😂 I loved that reference
Edit: I loved Dream & Lucifer's battle. Epic battle of wits
Technically Hope drives away despair. I would argue that disappointment can dash hope, but a shapeshifter showdown like this "Oldest Game" or the battle between Merlin and Madam Mim from Disney's Sword in the Stone (another classic version) usually is revealing of the characters and who they are... everyone has themes and strategies that shape their options. Dream was sort of a hunter (he's hunting the tools and the Corinthian), hawklike, he is a world sort of (the Dreaming), he is something like a universe, and he is Hope in a way, as we've seen in this episode. Lucifer is a terrifying predator like a dire wolf, serpentine, a corrupting disease, a fiery nova, the beast of judgement and anti-life is very Prince of Darkness-y. But Lucifer can't be disappointment, because he isn't (and can't be, in front of his assembled forces) disappointing, by his nature.
you guys make the silliest jokes 😭keep it up !
Lucifer itself dreams of heaven of returning to the silver city and therefore even dream has a place of power not only over the damned who dream but over its sovereign
Watching a few of these reactions late. But if you haven’t read up, Sandman is part of DC so if you go with that perspective, Lucifer no matter whose list, is always in the top 5 of the strongest DC characters. But because of their functions Lucifer just can’t go destroy dream because he’s one of the ones created by the creator himself. Which is why they’re so focused on protocols. They can’t just go warring with each other.
10k years dammmyu dream can hold a grudge
Epic rap battle of history!
Yeah, it would have been a wrap if he had said he was Momo with the Infinity Gauntlet 😆
It’s not really the point of the game to be something necessarily more powerful, but to stump the opponent on what counters it, or lead them to a point they aren’t willing to go. I think it’s an interesting twist, and works better against Lucifer than against Choronzan. From the dire wolf to the anti life, they were all things that are physically manifest, but whatever effect they had is ultimately virtual, only contained within the game. Once it’s over, they’re in the same physical condition as they were before starting, the damage doesn’t go beyond the game, with the only actual consequences being that the defeated has to honor whatever was wagered. Hope, however, is conceptual rather than physical, and ended up being what actually hurt Lucifer even beyond the game. Unwilling to make it worse by taking what the next move might entail, Lucifer throws in the towel.
I don't know if y'all have watched it, but if you haven't Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood is an amazing show with under thirty minute episodes. It's very good and carries many of the same themes as Avatar.
How dare you. Momo is the reincarnation of Monk Gyatso. He gave up nirvana to help Aang in a new life.
in comic, John Dee kill the woman in the car in cold blood, im happy they change that :D
@12:16 a bri-ish demon oi
The endless are more powerful then the gods. Dream is stronger than Lucifer.
is not
lmao
have you reads sandmant?
i guess not
No
The infinity stones have nothing on this beings or work outside of marvel Darkside had the full gauntlet with the stones and he throw it way because he was way more powerful and on a higher scale. That being said The Endless are above new gods like darkside. Dream is the 3rd oldest and strongest behind Death (second eldest and strongest) and Destiny (the eldest and first of the Endless).