The Sandman Episode 4 Reaction | A Hope In Hell
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Our first introduction to the endless world of Neil Gaiman, The Sandman. Join Syntell and Mikel-Claire as they react to the 4th episode of The Sandman, Dream A Little Dream Of Me.
Upon escaping after decades of imprisonment by a mortal wizard, Dream, the personification of dreams, sets about to reclaim his lost equipment.
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Lucifer in the show is also referred to as "he", and "sire". Angels don't actually have a gender. Lucifer looks kinda androgynous, and so Gwendoline Christie not only makes sense, but the final result is perfect imo.
Yes! Lucifer its based on David Bowie also, thats why the androgynous look. I really like Gwendoline performance, if she wouldnt do it i would say that Peter Capaldi would have been a good option
@@Neyenn Peter Capaldi is a little too old for the role imo. I would have said Tilda Swinton haha, she already played Gabriel in the Keanu Reeves 'Constantine' movie
@@starmorpheus Tilda would be a nice choice too.
@@jcbritobr Tilda Is Gabriel forever. Can,'t be Lucifer
Yh I liked how they did that in this, just makes perfect sense, would be kinda kl if they showcased how they can just alternate their forms aswell and have a male counterpart represent Lucifer sometimes too
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the fight between Lucifer and Dream! It would be stupid if they fought with swords or something like that. They're super powerful, eternal beings, so it makes sense that they fight with concepts.
I mean who doesn't say they are a black hole from the jump.
@@lurkingposter lol bruh
@@lurkingposter *In the grand scheme of things, black holes are nothing.*
Me too. It's the first time I see it done like that and it makes perfect sense. They're deities, of course the won't fight in an imitation of the battle of men.
I really enjoyed it. But y’all keep saying it makes sense, then tell me why they wouldn’t say anti life or universe right off the bat?
I always remember the audioplay describing Lucifer as having "A face that has your best interests at heart, you must know that" and I think that's a perfect description of this particular take on Lucifer
Morpheus dropped the mic so hard it created a new layer of Hell.
if i get this right, Mazikeen is a lilim, who are relatives of the succubus and the direct daughters of lilith, the first wife of adam and the one who birthed lots of demons. Lilims and succubus (also inccubus) use the dreaming world to invade people's dreams and drain their energy, so it makes sense that Mazikeen have some sort of respect for Morfeus.
The Lillim, or Children of Lillith were all manner of demons, monsters, succubi, and incubi. Her look is based on the Norse Goddess Hel; half intact, half decayed and rotted. She seems to have an unrequited love for Lucifer, and follows him around everywhere, like Sally follows Linus.
9:18 She can't run away because he has the amulet of protection. Once you have it everything goes in his favor which is why people who attempt to harm him explode. Its also the reason she offered him a ride. Why she almost crashed when trying to contact the police. Shes wants to escape but can't.
the full suite of protection. this is better than any of dream's items LOL i would take that any day
@@endor8witch Dream stone is full blown reality warping though. The amulet although powerful is ultimately still just an item from a high level demon.
@@endor8witch nah dreams stone is straight up high tier reality control. Those are different levels. One makes you hard to harm.....the other makes you a god.
@@endor8witch use ruby/dream stone to make you invulnerable or immortal. There, same effect but with more.
@@olivercillian exactly, the ruby could technically do everything the amulet can do and more, but it has an interesting limit: it makes dreams come true, so it can only do what you can dream of. It's like, the limit of your imagination is the limit of the ruby. As a consequence, creativity can be weaponized with it to great effect, whereas unimaginative people or people with aphantasia wouldn't really be able to do anything with it (maybe that's why Ethel never used it?).
The part with Dream’s former lover was to reinforce the theme. She says out loud “I’ll never give up hope” as he walks away
It's not actually cheating, technically Morpheus came up with hope as the final move, Matthew was just encouraging him
right? matthew didnt even mention hope, he suggested that it's morpheus himself.
Actually Nada set it up she said it Morpheus and Matthew remembered
@@user-br4mu3op9d to* Morpheus
@@user-br4mu3op9d Matthew didn't say anything about hope, he just says Dreams don't die, but Morpheus later came up with hope courtesy of Nada
The Anti-Life is a DC comics thing. It's an equation that proves life is meaningless and in it's physical form allows its weilder to control and/or destroy all life in the universe. The only thing that can beat it... Is Hope.
That's pretty stupid hope lmao😂🤣
@@skinnybonesjonestheallseei74 as corny as it sounds knowing things will get better or having hope does counter anti-life. Having the knowledge that life will get better is what keeps us intelligent beings moving
In Sandman's world Hell is quite literally made of people. The Trees, rocks, floor, etc etc. It's almost all people in eternal suffering.
In the comic Gaiman had the pressure to add random DC heroes and etc. He said in this rendition he can change or fix some things. So there's been some changes, but they all make sense.
In the comic Lucifer's look was based on Bowie. So they're supposed to be sort of androgynous with no gender. As a fun side thing, the Lucifer in the show Lucifer is this Lucifer. It's a spin off.
In the comics the Greek gods weren't present in the Season of Mists when other pantheons like Norse and Egyptian were, because the Greek gods were (at the time) dead in a Wonder Woman story arc. I hope they make their appearance and bargain in the Season of Mists adaptation!
Gwendolyn was a good choice. Lucifer with the eternal shade. Subtle and terrifying. Been pure evil for eons, I like how they showed his true form, just darkness lol scary af.
That polite smile with all-powerful menace right beneath the surface.
John kills Rosemary brutally in the comics. I prefer what they've done with John in the show. They've given him good reasons to be the way he is and connect with other characters, rather then just be a creepy crazy dude.
Lucifer btw, was always meant to be androgynous. That's why Neil Gaiman used an early depiction of David Bowie in the comics. He was very androgynous looking himself. Angels have no defined sex as we know it.
Mazikeen has always been Lucifer's bounty hunter/ right hand and loyal subject.
Nada's story is probably going to lead into season 2. Morpheus-or Kai"ckul as she knows him- has an intense love story with her. He does see her in the comics on his journey to hell. That's how he realizes she's there and-i don't wanna spoil too much but- Morpheus is going to keep thinking about her being in hell.
That fight scene was so fascinating and poetic..... Loved it 🔥
Dream twisted the knife with that "...of heaven" bit. Even Lucifer in hell can't escape God and the influence of heaven. Keep in mind the Lucifer TV show is a VERY loose adaptation of Lucifer from The Sandman, and we all knew he grew tired of playing the role of hell's warden.
Anti life is something else. It's Darkseid's target, the key to controlling all life and will
Just so you know Lucifer doesn't have a gender
Mazikeen was introduced on Volume 4 of the Anthology which is : Season of Mists. Which maybe the main source of the next season (My speculation).
Yeah it looks like that and Seasons of the Mist ( or in the Mist) will be combined.
Loved Morpheus threatening to take Lucifer's ability to dream of heaven. 😂
The reason there's a triumverate ruling hell in the Sandman comics is because that was the state of the DC universe via it's more occult comics like Swamp Thing, and more importantly Hellblazer. Constantine sold his soul to all three factions, allowing him to survive cancer for a time because anyone claiming him would trigger a war in hell. Gaiman used this detail (and a number of random cameos) to explicitly place Sandman in DC continuity.
@@chrisburgin7599 Brilliantly put
I love what they did with Rosemary this episode. Like I much prefer this outcome over what happens in the comic 😭
John gave the amulet to Rosemarie because he decided she really is a good person and, as he said, good people usually have things not go their way in an uncaring world, so he decided to allow her to protect herself as a reward for offering not once but twice to help him, the second time full knowing he was probably going to kill and only expressing concern for her dog's safety. John is insane but since he's so fixated on honesty, he couldn't but respect the fact that Rosemarie was sincerely a selfless and good person. Plus, from a more practical standpoint, he already has the Ruby and having an amulet that protects him from all harm would be redundant and mess up the story.
in Gaiman's books - hell is made up of all the people who believe that they belong there. hell is "made" by people (which is part of that nice touch having the damned bring their own fires)
Gwendoline was a very nice choice to play lucifer. He has very androgenous appearence based in David Bowie. To get better than Gwendoline only with David Bowie.
Here's where you need a 60-year-old comic geek to help make some sense out of a lot of things in these episodes that may be confusing. So here goes. Why there were three rulers of Hell is a DC Comics thing. It happened in several comics you might probably never read and might not have the time to ever get to. The Saga of the Swamp Thing, The Demon, Hellblazer, and a few other books which bring the whole story together. Basically, it goes like this: Because comics, Hell had a war. In order to keep Hell from tearing itself apart the three major devils, including Lucifer, formed a Triumvirate to share the power. However, it was mostly artificial and something to amuse a bored Lucifer. None of the other "devils" could ever match Lucifer's power, but it amused Lucifer to let them think they were in charge. The Devil (and yes, he's called "The Devil") is the oldest and 1st citizen of Hell, but Lucifer is the most powerful because of 1st angel, the right hand of God and all that jazz. Lucifer has no sex, like Dream. How they look is seen is based on people's beliefs. That's why Nada, The black woman in the cage in Hell, saw Dream as a young black man. Not to mention that these were written by white guys, so their main aspects are white guys. But none of them should actually be white or men. Being the former right-hand of God, Lucifer can look any way they want. The TV show Lucifer is based on the character in The Sandman, only they left out all the battles with Dream and stuff. Mazikeen is also the same character from The Sandman and eventually spun off into a Lucifer series which is spun off directly from events in future Sandman issues you haven't got to yet. NBC's Lucifer is LOOSELY based on that DC series. (It's all about licensing and stuff. It's a whole thing.) They couldn't use John Constantine because DC/Warner wouldn't let them. But Johanna Constantine is still related to John Constantine even if they kinda stole John's backstory to use in the show. (The whole Astrid gets pulled into Hell thing is a John Constine back story.) Oh and fun fact, that John Dee character looking for his Ruby? Well in the comics he's an old (and incredibly stupid) Justice League villain called Dr. Destny who invades minds with the "Dream Stone." Neil Gaiman revamped it to be Dream's ruby when he created The Sandman and the Endless. And one more thing, while Dream did fight the actual demon who had his helmet, the fight was exactly the same as in the comic. It's just that CGI could make it more interesting, and it was a battle of concepts rather than something that harmed either participant. Matthew the Raven, who came from Saga of the Swamp Thing written by Alan Moore (don't ask, it's a lot) wasn't there for the battle in the comics. There, now you and anyone reading this are all caught up. It may seem confusing because we're talking about a lot of comic stories that come together when you're a collector. DC didn't plan any of it, writers just had ideas and threw them out there to see what stuck. It was Neil Gaiman who took all those elements and put them together into something interesting like The Sandman.
isnt Johanna Constantine just a genger swapped version of John? She is not related to John, she is him? I mean I dont really care since it worked for this show.
You need paragraphs... just a helpful thought.
a bit late but as far as i know in DC, Lucifer is one of the strongest beings in the multiverse with his equal, his twin brother Michael and topped only by The Presence, God.
They showed Nada to us know after 10.000 years Dream Still Don't forgive his lover. Dream is a pride assrole. They show The back story in season 2. Amazing story "tales in The sand"
Btw Lucifer trusts Dream the most out of all Endless. In the comics, when he shuts the gates of Hell and retires to Australia, he gives the keys to his entire realm to Morpheus only and leaves.
nada (lady imprisoned in hell) ties in for a later story so they r angling to use her storyline for season 2, which is in the seasons of mists storyline
Mazikeen looks like that because she is a demon daughter of Lilith,Adam’s first wife. There is pride in looking like that because perfection would mean you are too human. As for Dreams ex lover that story n his look is exactly like the comics. Even him been a black man. Hope that helps a little I really didn’t spoil anything
DC Comics definitely has a John Constantine movie in the works so that was probably the shift to Johanna; however, Jenna Coleman can do no wrong and was a great swap.
Plus Johanna apparently shows up more times in the overall story than John does.
@Rick King 22 shes a descendant of john constantine. learn some stuff before you speak out of your ass.
@Rick King 22 I don't think Gaiman is very interested in Sandman being that closely tied to the rest of the DC universe. Also, Johanna isn't just a show creation as she's a character in the comics, and from what I remember appears more frequently then John. They have shifted her timeline around quite a bit though.
I hate when fiction portray Lucifer as a monster or a clearly bad guy. The Devil comes to trick us, so a middle-aged woman with a blank face fits perfectly.
the vibe you guys give off of this series is really likeable
The fight scene was amazing, entertaining and poetic!
The Lucifer tv show is very loosely based on what Lucifer does after they abandon hell to its own devices and schemes after the events of the episode you just watched
That wasn’t a kindness he did, giving her the eye. If her daughters get agitated with her: pop! If her dog irritates her: pop! Seems more of a curse. Not to mention it will stop her aging.
i think there has to be a malicious intent to cause harm for the amulet to kill them. otherwise, why didn't the car that almost hit him didn't get destroyed or all the people who ran into him on the sidewalk? maybe that's the loophole
I was so psyched to see OG Maze-- The Lucifer show, which has a prettied-up Maze, ultimately has its origins in The Sandman-- it turned into a spinoff and Maze was a bigger character in that. But in that comic Lucifer played piano at a bar, didn't consult with the police lol.
Morpheus Gets His Mojo Back
15:13 Lucifer was just rolling out the red carpet for her honored guest
Lucifer is an Angel not a demon... Lucifer "said" that God shouldn't give humans free will because they would not love God. Lucifer was cast out of heaven but that was always the plan. You can't have free will without choice, Lucifer true roll is to punish evil people. It's the family dynamic that the oldest son/child is given the most difficult jobs to handle. IMO
So, apparently, the Old Game of Gods using avatars to fight is part of some mythologies. I cannot recall which ones.
"Oh, it's like a rap battle?!" Mikel freaking had me with that one!
For some context, Lilim are children of Lilith. The woman created before Eve. Also known as the mother of demons in Jewish mythology. So Mazikeen is a warrior descendant of Lilith.
I’ve been to Buffalo NY many times. During winter, it very much is a “hell frozen over” type situation.
The moves keep going until one of them is down
Gwendoline did such an amazing job as Lucifer!!!
I'm orthodox christian country (Eritrea), i grow up hearing stories about how beautiful Lucifer (we call him Satnael) is. My grandma used to tell me he is the most beautiful and musically talented creature in this universe.
Correct me if I'm wrong doesn't the truth or fact's kill the hope..?
I started watching this show after watching one of your reactions to the previous episodes.... it is so good.
The dream stone ( ruby) is actually the same stone that affected Wonderwoman 84 movie. Its more powerful as its from an Endless
The fact the transformation battle between Lucifer and Dream was line by line of the comics made the scene so much better. The show is incredibly faithful to the comics, which is rare and refreshing
Despair kills hope. Hope kills despair.
Hey, hey I am from Buffalo. Lol
Fun fact about the helm, it was crafted from the bones of an Old God.
Can't wait for next episode's reaction
"the hell with that...." i see what you did there lol...
Despair overcomes hope.
John Dee is Dr Destiny …the Justice League villian
This is THE BEST series I have seen in a very very very long time. So intelligent and thought-provoking. This series and especially episode 4 needs to win an Emmy or there is something very very wrong with the world.
The battle between Lucifer and the Sandman has to be THE BEST combat scene I have ever seen in a TV series or movie. I fully expected both of them to start firing lasers at one another; however, what actually happened was SO MUCH BETTER and SO MUCH MORE EPIC.
I have watched numerous NETFLIX series. This is definitely THE BEST OF THE BEST. WOW!!! I honestly cannot adequately do this series justice with words alone. More please.
@13:45, good match. But you are right Morpheus is walking quick up out of there. Matthew the Raven isn’t dawdling either.
Try Lucifer Netflix series
It's PG13 version of sandman
First time I've heard it referred to the Sandman. Thank you for the suggestion.
@@Syntell Its very, very loosely based. Still a great show.
You need to listen to the Audio Books, it's the best way to "read" the novel. It's an all star cast and narrated by Gaimen.
I wish you had shown the reaction to the meeting with Nuala. Although we didn't get the full background then, it did show that Dream could be a truly awful piece of work sometimes.
I sometimes thought that something that might defeat hope would be despair. I didn't even know that Despair was another of the Endless when I thought that.
I think the idea of Hell being a triumvirate was borrowed from the DC universe at large at the time. I think it was also a plot point in Hellblazer, the comic that starred John Constantine. Of course, Neil Gaiman didn't truly consider the other two to be on Lucifer's level. He (or she) was just letting them fancy themselves rulers of Hell for a while, as a game. Anyway, with the DC references mostly gone, so is the triumvirate.
Although the reference to "anti-life" remained. Isn't that something from the Fourth World stories?
Probably was said already by everyone, but Mazikeen is really important on the spin off series Lucifer. AFAIK, she isn't important in the main Sandman series.
7:09 9:46
I the comics the trinity that rules hell is Lucifer Beelzebub and Azazel and its not really explained in details why but the reason was cause Hell and mist of creation itself is as being consumed and destroyed by the Great Evil Beast ( gods dark equal ) the thing Lucifer tried to use as a trump card the Great Darkness that awaits at the end of everything the only one who could stop it was god himself bargaining a deal with it.
Anti-life is possibly the heat death of the universe, possibly the Big Crunch?
But that last shot of hope and dreams by Morpheus was ... personal, to the point and very, very vicious.
It’s funny cause dream actually has the potential to be as powerful as lucifer the only thing that holds him back is his totems of power he has reality warping powers and so much more.
Hm, I dunnow. Dream, and even Death who's supposed to be the most powerful of the siblings, fear Lucifer.
@@MP-tz7mf yeah I know but he only has the potential and this death is just like a reaper there are so many deaths it’s confusing like u have the horsemen death which he is supposed to be the most powerful and unkillable being to ever exist then u have this death which is like a reaper so I don’t know. However it was stated dream does have the potential.
In the comics, Death as in Dreams sister is THE Death. Neil gaimen actually got mad when another writer used her and claimed she was only a single reaper figure. In the Sandman canon seen as standalone (Neil Gaimen stopped caring about DC continuity early on), any embodiment of death is the same character, Death of the Endless, who will one day reap the entire universe. As for the power of Dream vs Lucifer well, theres an answer that's implied but not stated, probably bc Neil Gaimen didn't want to be controversial or just let it be up to fan interpretation.
Basically, the endless don't just control their domains, they define the opposite of that domain. So Death defines life, Despair defines hope, and Dream defines reality. So when an idea or dream becomes powerful enough, it can become real. Through this, gods are born- in the sandman the Norse, Egyptian Greek ect gods ultimately originate from the dreaming. But that doesn't make them fake- its implied each mythology is equally "true" but only when that pantheon has enough believers (dreamers), as truly ancient gods who no one believes in are much less powerful. Its never stated directly that the Christain God and Lucifer fall under that, but it would make sense, and theres no reason to believe otherwise- they have millions of believers, who believe them to be the most powerful beings in existence, and always have been. Under the rules of the Dreaming, that is true- lucifer is therefore more powerful than Dream. But it's still by Dream's rules and existence that this works at all, and the endless are actually eternal unlike the gods- even if your religion dictates a god created the universe, the endless still came first. And once that religion dies out, as christianity presumably will some day, the endless remain, and will until the end of time. So Lucifer is more powerful in the short term, if by short term you mean "the current status of reality, which only exists because of Dream". (Yes, this is mind-screwy and messes around with continuity. It's a story about dreams, whatcha expect).
seeing you guys struggle a tiny bit to actively listen: i actually had to watch the while show with captions/subtitles and wow the lines are incredible. no shame in having em! (not being mean, u guys r cool!)
"Anti life equation" is bassicslly what lucifer summoned
I read somewhere else that Lucifer cannot counter hope because that would mean renounce any "hope" of escaping her fate in hell
I have seen your reaction Syntell on Jaby's channel. First time I watched here your reaction on your channel. And I love it here more. Both of you. Much love.
nothing kills hope,that was a great aswer and the only answer.
uhm death can kill hope I think? as for why the light bringer didn't choose to answer it, I interpret it as if lucifer kills hope he/she wouldn't have hope for the silver city correct me if I'm wrong.
@@smilingtiger5534 hope is a feeling u fool,u cant kill a feeling,and lucifer is immune to deaths touch,dreams can also give u hope for a better future,hope never dies just like dreams also.
@@lucylucian2564 so a feeling? Ok ,if the one who feels hope dies then .u said it yourself that hope is a feeling and feelings needs someone with life to be felt?
@@smilingtiger5534 even the endless can fell things and theyre immortal see what im saying.
Despair kill hope, but Lucifer can’t summoned her because is Dream sister
"This is where you pull over"...more like jump the car in motion.
I LOVE your reactions!! Can’t wait to see what you think of the next one. It’s a DOOZY!!
Best post-show chat (so far) you guys did!!!
Just wait until you see episode 6
omg i really enjoy your reactions
Maze is cool in every series!
I loved this show.. waiting for next season
Lucifer is still He in show
a bri-ish demon oi
cant wait for the nxt episode lol
Fav episode so far!
Wow I'm early
just so you guys know it says episode 3 :D
Thank you for the heads up
@@Syntell no worries :)
So the casting for Lucifer didn't work for me at all. In fact t I thought it was terrible. Horrible performance.
The reason syntell probably doesn’t know what is happening is because this series adapted mostly the second half of the Sandman comics.
The series is based on the first two volumes out of ten. Seems like he may have started but didn't finish "Season of Mists", which is volume four.
You should check out the TV show Lucifer. I loved their take on that story. Maizekeen is also featured in that a lot.
Yeah Dream and Lucifer be flirting.
Tbh i was a bit mad at first to see Lucifer portrayed as a woman in this universe (especially when he has the appearance of a man in the comics and i loved him in the netflix serie) it seemed unnecessary "woke" but i think Gwendoline Christie did a remarkable job here, dark but playful, and kinda scary behind the "cherubic" face she has.
Lucifer was definitely androgynous in the comics and angels have no genitalia.
why you speak about the comic when it seems like you don't even read it
@@rararaddee_b7718 sure but the male pronoun was used so despite being androgynous he saw himself closer to males.and later in the comics he was clearly physically depicted as male. Anyway jjust saying she did a great job.
@@Intania123 how do you know that?
@@xuetesisaacs2727 probably because Tom's Lucifer is not quite the same in the comics? Just a guess. As far as I can remember, Sandman's Lucifer never cared for humans nor did they involve themself in their police investigations. It makes him a little different from his comic counterpart.