Part 1: Bottom Tier Amplifiers
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2021
- here is part 1 of 2 with regards to what i consider the bottom tier amplifiers.
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jayaudiolab@gmail.com - Авто та транспорт
I appreciate Jay and this dealer giving their opinions but remember EVERY amplifier will sound different based on the speaker, room and associated equipment they are used with.
Fascinating discussion. The first stereo I was captivated by was a McIntosh. 20 years later I walked into a stereo store to have a look and I heard a fascinating sound. What’s that I asked , a McIntosh was the answer. I purchased the system, a c220 preamp and a 2102 power amp. As we speak, I’m upgrading to a c53 preamp, and in the new year the Mc611. I’ve heard many systems, but Macs just resonates with something within like nothing else does. Must be the autoformers. Like you Jay, I’m often up until 3am and I have to shut it down just so my wife won’t complain too much. Keep on with your great work, Jay., you are truly amazing.
Jay: Mcintosh new stuff doesn't do anything for me.
Also Jay: I haven't tried the new stuff from Mcintosh yet.
I’m really enjoying this format with the local dealer. Very relaxing. Just need to add cocktails or coffee /cake or something.
Hell yes !
One persons trash is another's persons gem I guess! I have heard some uber high-end having friends that own a "mid fi" - "jay would call it" audio store here in Mt Joy PA, they get stuff in to demo behind the scenes sometimes. They would never have a market for it here in southeast PA, But it's fun and honestly the differences in sonics between uber/mid/bottom and entry level "in my opinion" from the little I have heard is like adding 10% sonic differences to each tier but 300% price point. Even if I had the money which I don't, I just don't see the point. It seems more of a obsessive I own the best of the best of the best more than a logical choice. "The price made my ears shudder with bliss and peen quiver with excitement" Perfectly happy with my PS audio, Van Alstine, Schiit audio, Parasound, entry level Pass and 100's of others for 400k or more less... I guess i'm easily pleased!
Hey, it's all about the music!
Dear Jay, thanks you for the list. It's nice to know these brands list because they are very common on our discutions groups.
Krell: These things happen when you force your lead designer out of the company.
My opinion regarding the Krell I bias amps which carry the legacy of being an all class A build with a true fully balanced circuitry. The presentation has a warm touch without the heat factor at a good price point WINNER !!!
I had a pair of Mac 2301's for awhile a few years back. I agree, they sounded fantastic, but I decided to go S.S. and do away with the tube situation. Funny, now I want to do away with my S.S. preamp and go tube. I tell ya, this hobby will keep you on your toes. So many options.
McIntosh at their price point are still excellent musical and very reliable
They still have a very non fatiguing musical sound
i would suggest prospective buyers listen and trust there own ears
Agreed, except I would say, “McIntosh at any price point…..”
Two bad pieces in a row. Piece #1 could not be fixed due to lack of parts. Piece #2 was bad right out of the box. Took Mcintosh 7 months to resolve. The company is NOT what it used to be. Far from reliable. And now, the company has sold again so its probably going to get worse.
I had Firmware issues with my MA6600. Eventually I gave up on it.
I'm looking forward to seeing if Naim ends up on part 2. Also Jay, you should look into bringing in the Naim statement to do some comparisons. It's obviously a company you don't hold in high regard, but the statement is a $200k prestige amplifier, and I'm wondering if it might stand alone as a product within that company that can compare to a Griffin or Boulder. Also there's so little youtube content covering it, a shame because it's a truly visually stunning piece. Hopefully something you'll consider for he future!
Naim 500 amp would destroy his top choice I think.
In regards to the bryston ssd2 that was mentioned... What advice can you give someone looking at the used market for one? I see there are a few different options. C series, pro, 4b/9b/28b etc.
28b
Jay, can you show us a list os the Best of the Bottom...? It'll be interesting for the poor mortals...
McIntosh sells. But as you pointed out, people don't necessarily buy it for the sound but for the status instead.
Why would anyone buy a stereo for status? It’s not like folks come to your house to look at your amp. Besides, a stereo is a stereo to the average person. No one ever noticed my Macs until they heard them, then they went and bought them.
My Krell KMA 200's from the late 80'-early
90's are absolutely MidFi now! I am thankful that Jay is a straight shooter/honest with his opinions! LORD Willing, I will plan for an upgrade before I retire to the Sun Coast in my Diesel Pusher! Thanks Jay for your opinions!
My pleasure
completely far from MidFi....midfi would be today's Yamaha integrated amps/Rogue Audio etc
To me this is like the ranking in an end of the year best drivers cars list. McIntosh is like M3, very good in isolation and hugely enjoyable but against a GT3 it falls short. Gryphon & Boulder are like Porsche GT division products. Just because M3 ranks lower in this does not mean that its bad by any stretch of the imagination.
To say Parasound JC 1+ highs sound great at low volume with first 25w Class A but bad at high volume is far-fetched (and false). An 88db sensitive speaker would need to play at ~103 db volume to exceed 25w. Furthermore, the big watts usually kick in for low frequency transients. The only valid knock against the $17k Parasounds is that they are ugly by comparison with the amps that Jay ranks in his tier 1. Jay likes the bling and prestige of the $50k+ amps. The JC 1+ rubs guys like him the wrong way because they give equal (often superior) sonic performance for less than half the dollars. Plain casework and manufacturing in Taiwan are massive cost savers.
Just curious, do you have experience with the JC1+ in your system?
You're creating your own narrative there buddy.
@@michaelmityok1001 Yes. I own them. They sound incredible.
@@marklloyd2655 good to know you have the amp in your system, your opinion of it has some validity, although that does not mean Jay's opinion of it is invalid
@@jaysaudiolab Well, Jay, we all create some narrative when we communicate. With all due respect, I believe my narrative accurately describes your perspective. When you buy an amp you want first class industrial art casework to go along with sonic excellence. But you don't want to admit how much you value appearances, so you hardly mention looks in your reviews. Instead you exaggerate the sonic superiority of the sexy looking amps you prefer. If you were honest with yourself and us you would at least admit that you are put off by how ugly the Parasound JC 1+ amps are.
Oftentimes like that: the founder and original owner is gone, company sold…company goes down. Happened with Krell, happened also with Mountainbike formerly famous brand ‚Klein‘. It’s a shame, doesn’t HAVE to be like that, but oftentimes it is.
I find usually the chief designer doesn't have the money but only the brains at the beginning. Then they make enough to go out on their own and make their own brand as they see fit and leave the original company.
@@jctai100
This is why Nelson Pass' side venture First Watt makes so much sense.
Pass Labs... the mothership, possesses a solid following, mature yet still state of the art designs.
Conversely, First Watt facilitates the need for Pass' exploration into various topologies ... specific areas of interest to him... ie., current (instead of voltage) source amplifiers.
Also, positive and negative 2nd harmonic distortion behaviors... yielding subjectively superior transfer functions... etc.
Hi have you tried the Vivid Audio Giga speaker's.
Hi Jay, what about Chord amps? Where do they go in the list?
Haven't owned them
Absolute pants!!
I am in agreement with you Jay on Krell components. I struggled with them (KCT, FPB-400cx, and KPS-28c) for over 10 years too long thinking that I had top notch gears but never enjoyed them as they were never musical or engaging. Finally got rid of them all after I discovering your channel. I have since tried Luxman M900u/C900u combo, and now Gryphon Essence/Pandora combo and could not be happier. Hope you discover more hi-fi gears with mid-fi, or low-fi price. Thanks!
Thank you!
Bring it ;-)
Plinius SA-103 on the mids/highs with JC1 on woofers......
I use a Plinius amp and pre and really love it. I have tried other options but so far can't beat the Plinius. Qualifier: I don't have unlimited finds to throw around.
@@falconquest2068 Plinius is not a bottom tier amp by no means! Great amp!
If there is any difference between amplifiers.
Love yer style Jay….is so refreshing to hear an honest opinion sprinkled with the right amount of humor and creative metaphors….audio buzzwords are so tiresome!
Thank you
Good to see that I should wait and not upgrade my Bryston 4bsst2 for the 4b3.
See what i mean 😛
Hi. I saw you owned a revel salon speakers. What do you rating them?
Jay wrote on audiogon that he referred Monitor Audio PL500II and Dynaudio Confidence C4 Platinum.
BTW, are you Salon2 owner Tuan?
@@HieuNguyen-dl5nd đang nghiên cứu thôi cậu, thấy ai cũng khen mà model sản xuất lâu quá rùi nên từ từ tìm hiểu kinh nghiệm người đã dùng
@@TryAndLife em thì cũng đang xài Salon2 đây bác. Tưởng bác cũng xài tính hỏi xem bác ghép j. Tính mua Pass Labs X350.8 mà thấy nó cũ quá, tận 2014 nên giờ chờ Luxman M10X hoặc đầu năm sau xem sao :D
Post your audiometry test . At certain point how much can really hear do to hearing lost.
I agree in term of improvement design in Mc is 0. I’m not satisfy with Mc quality from my $10k Amp. It’s make a pop/pulp sound when turn on/off amp. They lazy to not put a delay relay inside output circuit for stop making speakers pulp.
Ah you find the Bryston SST2 more pleasing then the SST3, me too.
Me three. 👍
Jay repeat after me THESE ARE MY OPINIONS OF THE AMPS THAT I LISTEN TO IN MY ROOM . LIKE MOST OF US I HAVE A LESS THAN OPTIMAL ROOM SO PLEASE TRY THEM IN YOUR OWN ROOM . EACH ROOM WILL GARNER DIFFERENT RESULTS . That's all you have to say to be a responsible reviewer . I get it ,we all have to work with what we have . I was stuck in my basement too due to mommy / the wife . Don't give up one day you may have a room with 12 foot ceilings .
Listen to this guy. He has no clue. The blue shirt is much better.
LOL McIntosh stopped innovating ever since it was bought by the Clarion group.
Well , as far as brands are concerned , I guess that I'm in the bottom of the barrel list.
I feel like the cost should be considered. The medium to high end amps that he talks about cost 20, 30, 50, 100 grand or more. His "medium" is high end for most people.
@@michaela.5363 Totally agree. If he wants to expand he needs to broaden his reviews into some lower price points. Its nice to see what the high end can do but lets see what budget minded can bring even down to $3k mark.
Keep in mind Jay's preferences leans towards cost is no object pieces. Even though, I found everything he speaks to to be true of the brands mentioned. The Audio Exotica he prefers are not in the same tier. Considering an Boulder's ultimate price point, it should give you the ultimate level of performance. All that being said, there are other considerations. Brands like Bryston, McIntosh, Audio Research, are fairly easy to audition, purchase, and get repaired. Try to audition and Boulder or Constellation amp? Very few dealers carry these super uber brands. The final point, there is nothing wrong with something like a McIntosh, they are good product, that offer plenty of great sound. For decades, they have been an audiophile's staple, and for good reason. They just do not offer the utmost in cutting edge sonic performance.
@@ridirefain6606 Everything you are saying is correct. I also noticed that despite being in the bottom category Jay and Mike did praise some of the models in that tier. I also noticed that Jay assigns the tiers based on the overall innovation of the brand, which makes sense.
I got confused by your title of this Video, I thought you would talk about Bottom Tier Amplifiers in that they are the cheapest up to approx $10,000. in cost so I got excited for a while but no it was all highend audio not to your liking. My fault and carry on the good work...
Hey audiophools, eat class D static!
Prima Luna was the worst amp I ever heard lol
This is what I mean by elitism in the high-end audio world. Fanboys in this industry are some of the biggest fanboys in existent, and some of them tend to be elitist. Jay's a good dude, but he's a hi-fi elitist. Listing McIntosh as bottom tier is just LOL worthy. It's just nonsense.
So let’s take the opinion of a guy who will happily sell into anyones territory regardless of the agreement he has with a manfacturer. Yeah hold my drink and let me run and go get my checkbook.
These guys are pushing off brands like constellation junk amps, that are filled with 800 dollars chinse parts and cost 25K, paid sales scammers
The greatest amp for any money has to be the Fukuras Jizontitz mk.5
Can’t wait for Jay’s review on this one😂
Hmm.. hummmmmigggg 😢
Fish heads for the plebs!
I respectfully disagree about your opinion on McIntosh gear. I just did an a/b between 601 vs 611 in my system and the new amps are very different animals. They are less dark, more transparent, and the bass control is wildly improved. At 15k, I think the 611 monoblocks are a good value if you like the Mac sound.
I don't disagree with you.
@@jaysaudiolab I just replaced my Holo May with a MSB reference. If you are still looking I'd be cool with you borrowing it for a video.
John, what were the other primary components (source, preamp, interconnects, speaker cables, speakers, and power conditioners) in your system when you performed your a/b comparison? I ask this because I am quite interested in the 611s myself (despite Jay's less-than-stellar positioning of McIntosh).
@@jmeyersnv Hi Jonathan. The source was a old skull canyon NUC with rock os direct to the Holo May. Synergistic Research full loom, mixed tiers and their PC12 SE. Rockport Avoir 2s, and Moon 740P preamp. The 611s and C1100 Tube pre amp is really nice combo, and where I ended up.
@@Evo9john Please coordinate with Jay and send it to him, the Holo May at $5000 is a widely known DAC and might put up a strong comparison, many of us would like to hear it on Jay's XLFs.
Why is Jay spreading this Suncoast video out over multiple videos and weeks? Just release everything please.
It’s all about content and maximizing that.
Because i get more views this way... I don't see the harm. But i will be doing a paid members only section where i will post full videos.
I’ll take them in pieces, I don’t want to watch a 1/2 hour-40 minute video, give me multiple 15-20 minute max topic centric discussions.
@@jaysaudiolab These 15 minute videos are great, but I’d like to see you conclude them smoother. Currently, they just stop, kind of in the middle of the conversation. Good stuff though…
I never really liked Krell. Now I know why, makes perfect sense. But even the good old ones that so many rave about, had really bad 3d/layering/just sounded old/simple, even though they did a lot good. Fun to watch these videos where at least someone has the balls to say it as it is, I think that these things are not just a matter of opinion, it's just pretty obvious and most people are thinking it.
I got the balls but that comes with drama ...
@@jaysaudiolab you instigate the drama.. publicity sells, and sells better with controversy.
Click baiter 🤣
You guys need to go on a diet!
I'm thinking about a new amp so I am going to buy the amp that Jay hates the most since he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about LOL
He is talking about amps he has had in his systems and room. He is not talking about amps he hasn't had personal long term experience with. He is entitled to his opinions and at least he bases his opinions on something other than just biases and hearsay and "reviews". Personally, I find his opinions correlate with other owners os high end gear. I think most people don't like Jay's opinions because of envy pure and simple.
If i dont know what I'm saying then im shocked you are here following me 😆
@@michaelmityok1001 yep. You are correct. If my opinion doesn't align with theirs then i don't know what I'm talking about.
@@jaysaudiolab Easy bro LOL Just a review of you and your room now go back to your basement and enjoy your music LOL
@@marclajeunesse3890 Are you butt-hurt ?
Your videos are bottom tier. You are surrounded with big money gear my friend , but my Gosh your videos are very bottom tier. Hire some one or up grade your camera gear.😢