Part 2: CONS of Pass Labs
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2021
- here are the "cons" of pass labs amplifiers.
Part 1 of this video is here:
• Part 1: Pass Labs gear...
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#passlabs #jaysaudiolab - Авто та транспорт
Disclaimer: This video is about my personal opinion on the product. This might not reflect your personal views and/or experience with it. As we all know, this hobby is subjective and YOU - the end user - is the only person that can decide what best suits your particular needs.
Most overrated brand on the planet, boring !
@@stuartkarlson307 BS
So if you can only choose one would it be the pass labs int-250 or Luxman 590 or 509?
I recently purchased the First Watt F8 amp - It is incredible, just an amazing tone. I'm not saying I will not ever buy the Gryphon Essence amp, but for now, the FW is the best amp I have ever owned & that is my objective fact!
Nice. Must be a really good system. Think the video is about perfectionist audio veering towards cost no object systems where minute performance differences are critical when it usually would not matter even to many audiophiles.
Hi Jay! I agree with your robust character. Your presentation is clear, which woke me up to the fact that even the not-so state of the art "High End" amps in the used market are still expensive; more so - - Vintage. Last year I bought the iconic SP-3 Audio Research pre-amp paired with the D-51 power amp; both vacuum tubes vintage from the early 70's. The pair cost 8 to 10 times times the original price. This set up drives the 1963 Altec Valencia; tried with the Quad ESL-63 (feels under powered) so the umbilical cord reconnected to the Valencia pair. The ESL-63 still faithful to my cheap revered Audible Illusions Modulus-3 tube pre-amp and modified Hafler 500 solid state (at times, B&K ST-140 or ST 202 Plus). I am 78 years old and planning to upgrade my gear; but it does not make sense anymore. My impaired hearing loss [ besides my wife ] forbids the plan. Also, the fact that you conclude Pass Lab is "MID-FI" is really insulting to the Audiophile community; it's a shame. I would not mention this to my close buddy who owns the First Watt by Nelson Pass. Now, anyway, for the love and passion for MUSIC, who cares if I go to Best Buy and get a brand new GPX or maybe boss? My commander-in-chief will be happy and put that money aside for Max - our grandson. Meanwhile Jay, I profoundly beg that please do not attack the reputation of someone legendary who brought design excellence into the audio world. Enjoy the blessings of opulence discerning the musicality of the highest END amp. Happy listening. Happy Thanksgiving. Greetings from Chicago!
Hi Jay, I enjoy your videos and envy your deep pockets. I also happen to own the very humble Pass Labs XA30.8 amp and XP22 preamp driving a set of humble Martin Logan Theos. I have to say the combination is a match made in heaven. Not everyone wants the ultimitate resolution in an amp. Martin Logans are notorious to reveal flaws in recording or upstream gear. The Pass combo gives enough beef on the bone to Theos perfect for my taste. Nelson Pass knows his business very well. And the Class A amps from Pass are for those, as you said, who want that tube sound without the hassle. And Pass Labs fills that niche market well. Do not complain about their heat generation or weight. If you do not want the heat, go with their AB amps. And please do not call Pass a mid-fi company!!!!! That is an utter insult to Nelson Pass. Look I have put together the amp/preamp for roughly $18K...not all of us have $50 or more to blow on hardware. Besides, Pass Labs XS line go up to six figures if bought combined - that ain't no mid-fi. Take care Jay.
I'm not a Pass Labs guy , but I think it's a matter of taste. Some people love the Pass Labs sound and some people don't. I like Bryston , some people hate Bryston. Again , it's a matter of taste.
I am Bryston person too my latest addition is B14 cubed my next will be BR20
@@moandy6533 How would you describe the difference in sound character?
@@allthingsaudio3840 warm controlled Bass and very quite, my speakers are Monitor Audio Platinum PL300 II Pre is AVM 60 streamer Bluesound Node 2, Turntable Rega Planar P6 Phono stage Lehman black Cube SE with detached power supply, speaker wires kimber kable and DIY from GR research, power cable from audioquest Monsoon. Power supply audioquest Niagara 5000. Second set speakers, Monitor Audio Silver 500 Gen 6
@@moandy6533 Thanks, yes most people say Bryston has good low end control. I may try one out one day for summer use since my Pass heats my room well in winter.
Jay, though I value your opinion, IMHO, calling Pass labs "midfi" is somewhat misleading. You are one of the few people who has the ability/wherewithall to audition equipment that costs stratospheric prices. No doubt a Bugatti Bolide can outperform a Porsche 911 Carerra, but one is simply expensive and the other untouchable except for a select few. Perhaps it would be more fair to label Pass Labs amplifiers as an iconic, bulletproof brand that has stood the test of time and is "relatively" cost effective.....cutting edge tech is great, and I applaude it, and envey those who can enjoy it, but how many people have systems that cost as much as the average US home? Please do not lose sight of that.....
That's just it though, Pass is not the 911. Porsche continuously innovates and 911 has GT2 RS and GT3 variants that competes at the highest level. Pass Labs is the Subaru WRX, once upon a time a great affordable performance car that rested on its laurels. Now it's just an outdated design with some fresh paint, and even for the modest money it costs, you can get a lot more for your money. Mola Mola, ADG, Boulder, all of whom are levels above. Jay is right.
Still don't get this reversed shirt thing. Must be to distract from the content for some reason.
Nelson Pass is the greatest amplifier engineer in history. Considering Jay putzes it up nonstop about power cords and cables, it’s hard to to take him seriously as anything other than a rich boob.
@@conduit242 Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher where arguably two of the greatest British prime ministers in modern history, but that didn’t stop either of them from turning into kooks towards the end of their tenures.
And I’ve heard the various sonic impacts of absurdly priced cables, not in my midfi system where those differences don’t really shine through, but in the kind of uber high-end systems Jay plays with, where I don’t have any skin in the game, in blind tests. Most of the reviewer community won’t touch cables because of the controversy surrounding them, presumably generated by people whose gear isn’t up to snuff or by engineers who think they’re the last word. But I appreciate Jay doing the dirty work here.
Jay appreciate your opinion. I have been listening to the channel for a bit, and whilst I have the utube issues, from my point of view (again a personal opinion), I think the three amps that really impressed “my sound” was the gryphon (Mephisto and essence), Merrill and the pass xa60.
Value for money (given the high end nature of this channel) would be pass and essence. I have read on another blog that the pick of pass is the xa60 and xa160 (class a). Given it’s a power amp I’m willing to forgive innovation over substance and would happily go pass on the power amp; not so for pre and other components. The xa60 sounded that good to me. Keep up the good work buddy!
Totally disagree
Nelson pass is a genius
His designs are visionary
Always pushing the boundaries
His not loosing customers
He doesn’t follow Trent’s like other high end companies audio jewellery high priced
Pass is good. But gryphon is much much better
Your opinion... for me, Pass is one of the best brands in the World, compete directly with all high end brands.
Yes it's my opinion
Pass is like the 1980 Mercedes SEL it is still a good car but can't compete with newer stuff
@@pennfootball71 what newer stuff?
@@kukang1232 Audionet, Mola Mola, Pilium Audio.
@@pennfootball71 your opinion!
For a wonderful playback music i don't need a good led screen or class D amplifier. New components is not the same of good components!!
Man you locked me in and kept my attention, I very much enjoyed this conversation. Thank you.
Being a member of DIY audio blog which Nelson himself is in dialogue often offers a bit of insight to perhaps his business model approach . 1 price point , Pass amps are not as expensive as many other brands yet are quite frankly near bullet proof. This is one of the reasons they are so heavy watt per watt , the power supplies in these things are serious. So with the pricing apparently gives a market share that they are comfortable with. As for sound , I do believe his best sounding gear is low watt stuff. int25 , some of the first watt models . He does try to build the simplest signal path possible for purity but also the stellar reliability his products have. I asked you before , why not try a few of his lower watt models ? Many of us live in that world including myself . With the right speaker synergy i find it sounds closer to live for my genres of music. High DB paper drivers , low watt , high current .
Great sound for less with proper speaker matching and electronics.. Jays goals are clearly different and must start at a higher price point to be considered.. other motives at play here..
The INT25 is his best work yet. Preferred over his larger amps.
JAL is focused on very large speakers that are usually difficult loads. Ive driven Magnepans with Pass Labs and they don’t go well together. That said, that doesnt mean they’re bad. It’s just not a good match. Conversely, a speaker that offers a flattish load isn’t a good match for a high current amp as it won’t be able to stretch its legs. I was quite disappointed by this review. Jay only speaks in generalities. I really dont get what he means that Pass doesnt “excel” in anything. Its not helpful at any level.
I’d also like to know what Class A amps he is referring to that dont produce much heat. All Class A amps run at full power at idle. As far as I know, they all produce a lot of heat.
And what is this new amp technology Jay speaks of? Amplifiers havent changed for decades. Some companies over build their amps, most high end companies voice theirs, but I havent seen a new design in ages.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter what it is. That's what we have here, one man's opinion. This opinion comes from someone who simply wants something "new" - Yes, "new" seems to be very important to him, and that's just fine. But it's not for everyone. Thanks for the nice review, and I am glad to see that you are finding what it is that is important to you and your rig.
His journey is all about finding the very best sounding hifi.
Pass Labs is simply not good enough
@@henriksrensen3220 - There is no such Thing as the 'best sounding hi-fi.' This hobby must be new for you.
@@jamiemcneil9462 30 years in the hobby
@@henriksrensen3220 - Amazing how someone could spend 30 years in the hobby, and not understand even the most basic fundamentals.
@@jamiemcneil9462 I have listened to pass myself. There are many brands i like better.
Please tell me what i don't understand?
Oh, really…. (?). The X-Model doesn’t run nearly as hot as my former KRELL monos. I really don’t have any issues at all anymore with heat regarding PASS power amps ( not speaking of the XS and XA models where I don’t have any personal experience with!). And I think I really HAVE to try a Gryphon Essence in comparison… to see or hear for myself if they sound better - not just different (?). Actually cannot imagine anything else than a different approach…but I respect your own experience. What actually didn’t convince me very much sonically were their preamps…but that might have improved in the recent years (haven’t checked it out the last years)… but what surprises me: I couldn’t recognize a big gap between your Pass amp sound and e.g. Gryphon Antileon or Essence regarding sound quality…more a slightly different tonality (as Nelson Pass idealizes the tubelike sound quality without the issues tubes can produce especially in POWER amps) , emphasis or „taste“ so to speak 🤷🏻🙂.
P.S.: just listened again to Jay’s own comparison between the ‚Essence‘ and the X 350.8 because of that topic here …and I wholeheartedly must say that to my spoiled ears the Pass amp sounds better….better clarity and highs, better 3d image and just as good bass as the Essence IMHO.
And NO…I am not a fan boy just because I own a pair of Pass’s amps. If I found the Essence better I would try to swap or sell the Pass and get the Gryphon…but right now: no need to become nervous in any kind of way! But check out for yourself, guys…that’s why I like Jay’s channel..you can always go back to his former videos and listen for yourself again ua-cam.com/video/Xdk0_sUksqE/v-deo.html Thumbs up!
Yeah I agree; couldn’t see too much difference between the amps either. I would be happy with any of the three.
You are still crying because Gryphon is better than mid-Fi pass labs.
"Im not a pass labs fan boy" 🤣🤣🤣
Pass Labs can't compete with the very best. Gryphon is much better.
Wow, damm, Bro ,you leaned into Pass pretty good. 😳😬. I respect your opinion though.
I am a Pass user (XA Amps / XS Pre) . I got great deals on my stuff, affordable. Love that pure Class A sound. Will LAMM Audio get the same treatment ?. How about the Kondo Audio Note Ongaku ?. Some of the Lamm gear is going on at least 12-13 years. The Ongaku I remember from I think, the 80s ?.
It’s all about what you like. I read some great comments here. Excellent job. 👍🏽
I've reached a point where I'm done being companies' beta testers for their engineers innovation. Especially at these prices. I prefer simplicity and reliability.
very good video! this is very valuable for us people that have less funds to experience all this gear! thank you!
I think that many of the new Luxman amps looks cheap and plastic like... I have owned much of the earlier days Luxman hifi.. It had great sound, COMBINED with great look 👍😊
I have an Adcom 555 designed by Nelson Pass, it just sounds ‘right’ to my ears and I’ve owned or used Plinius and Perreaux in the past, both good, but both ‘hifi’ sounding. The Adcom just presents lush, rich music with a gorgeous tone and effortless fluidity.
Maybe some just like the allegedly mid fi sound that pass/Nelson has to offer Jay! Rocking a firstwatt SIT-2 (just 8 watts) with XP-22 pre, cube audio nenuphar and cube audio subs. I wish you could try some efficient setup like this yourself sometimes, you might get a bit of a shock))
Very goofy. But who knows---maybe Nelson and Wayne will consult with Jay to "improve" their amps and preamps. Personally, I hope they don't. I don't want a world filled with products suited to just jay's taste.
nobody said this is for me to change the world. This is one man's opinion: MINE. I stated this clearly so i am not sure why the comment.
@@jaysaudiolab It's goofy, Jay, because you're complaining that Pass products don't suit your taste, you present that to your viewers as a "con" for Pass designs and you're criticizing their designs as outdated, however there is a strong slice of the hifi market who adore the Pass house sound and don't want it changed. And yes, pure Class A gets hot, by virtue of being Class A. There's always A/B or even better, D for those with no air conditioning.
@@ronpi1293 good point
Well said Ron
Mcintosh just doing the same things just modernized the sound a bit but they're still the biggest brand in the block ...But they look really cool 😎 and their resale value is really good. On old tech hope you get to listen to old tube designs and large outrageous horns and feel what the fxxx have we been doing for decades we have not improves even regressed! Cheers for the videos!
Your Pass Cons are legit and I own one. The new stuff from Pass is in First Watt.
Pass Labs and First Watt probably create more designs than anyone else, you lost me there. The whole point of the First Watt lineup is to try new techniques.
As to the comment about the very best amplifiers…. The very best amplifiers are now class D. They’re lower distortion than basically anything else, more efficient, and more transparent. They don’t impart warmth, however, so if you’re seeking that… it’s not for you. There’s very little that can touch a good Purifi based amplifier in terms of what I mentioned.
Pass amps are warm and have nice tonality. I still have an Aleph amplifier and loved the F5 I owned, but I didn’t go for the high wattage amplifiers because of how inefficient they are.
Edit: thanks for sharing your opinion, though. I disagree on the points I mentioned, but you’re definitely not entirely wrong. What people enjoy in amplification is incredibly subjective because technical performance can sound boring. I put together a super low distortion front end that sounds breathtaking on well recorded tracks, but somewhat lifeless on normal stuff. I took out my high end low distortion preamplifier and put in some tubes and it brought those to life. There was definitely a cost, so you just have to choose for yourself.
Excellent video, please keep it up Jay!
The maker of Pass Labs has been making new products. All of them are low watt and would not interest you.
The XA25 is really good!😉
@@locmanw1583 but not expensive enough to attract attention around here.. missing that one attribute..
Hi Jay. I watched this video with particular interest. You have access to far more hi end gear than I do, and I can respect that you have formulated opinions based on this. As far as Pass Labs is concerned, I have no dog in that fight. However, I don’t find your assessment of the state of hi end audio of much value, when you paint with broad strokes. You, like others in this hobby, have specific likes and dislikes. That is why no two manufacturers produce equipment that sound the same. There is no such thing as perfect here, only what we enjoy. There have been manufacturers that have tried to innovate, with excellent sounding efficient amplifiers. Yet, no one was interested in, for example, a class D amplifier from a company that is renowned for its class A design’s. Further, I would only offer this friendly bit of advice: try to avoid the perception of being myopic by stating things like: there are only a few amplifiers, like Boulder and Gryphon, that in your opinion, are the best of the best. When you make claims like this, you risk diminishing your credibility as a consultant. It is for this reason that I perceive you as nothing more than a fellow audiophile, only with a bigger pocketbook, with his own experiences and conclusions. In that context, I can appreciate your journey and experiences, though it would be difficult, for me, to seek out your services as a consultant. I truly mean no disrespect, I only wish to shine a light on the fact that rarely do two audiophiles agree on what’s best in class, for the simple reason that rarely do any two audiophiles have the same sensory experiences or objectives as you (or I)have. I also don’t wish to diminish the value of your personal audio journey, only that you might consider that others find audio fidelity in some of the brands you may not. And each for their own reasons. I would be happy to share my choices, and my reasons, offline, if you’re interested. I think it may shed a light on some things you might not have considered. I do enjoy your channel, and wish you well in your audio adventures. All the best to you!
Hi Jay, do you purchase all these hi end audio items?... Or are they on loan from a dealer, importer or manufacturer ?
That’s explain everything.
This is invaluable advice. Thank you very much
Hi Jay, I can't properly place this video in relation to your videos regarding the XA60 monos….
I have an advanced degree in ECE. Technically, this industry is *NOT* advancing at a rapid pace. Not relative to other industries. That being said, other engineers tend to view Nelson Pass as a genius as his innovations come in the form of circuit topologies. The art of doing more with less is very much his style. Is Class AB & D more efficient, and more likely to be more prevalent in the future of high-end audio? For sure.
You have a very entertaining channel, and I value your opinion, but on this I respectfully disagree. 😁
PASS IS MID-FI? Wow- that’s news to me…
I forgot to say, Jay, you are in the top three most entertaining youtubers, along with Ron & Andrew - Keep it up sir!
Thanks man
@@jaysaudiolab will you do a video about McIntosh? How do you compare to pass labs?
@@topkho no I won't be doing it unfortunately
Supposedly there is an update to .8 amps coming that will be based on the topology of the XA-25 which is far different than all their other amps.
If so i would LOVE to try it!
I had the XA25 but swapped it out for the SIT3. The XA25 would embarrass most amps regardless of price.. yet I doubt jay would bother because it’s not expensive enough… Nuff said..
@@michaelmityok1001 me too!
@@mikem4633 Yeah who else is making a VFET/SIT amp today? SIT-3 is fantastic and unique. XA25 is phenomenal at the $5k price point. Pass amps of today sound notably better than Pass amps of 10 years ago, which sounded notably better than the Pass amps of 10 years earlier. Nelson is always thinking up novel designs as evidenced by First Watt. Seems like Jay is judging the proverbial books by their covers.
@@kimchee411 Agreed.. Jay goes for the expense gear .. That seems to be the best qualifier for him.. More money in the case work, Jewelery . He never mentions What makes them so costly or HOW they are better.. judging by cost alone..
Totally disagree, sounds like nonsense, I have the Pass Xa25, it does ( NOT) get hot, and the sound to me is amazing.
it seems to me that many people compare Pass to Mcintosh when looking in to amplification. I appreciate your opinion on Pass. Do you also consider Mcintosh mid-fi?
For the last 30+ years, pretty much everyone considers McIntosh to be mid-fi. Very nice, and perfect for many, but better products exist.
So in your amp reviews on Audiogon you clearly said the X250.8 was the best stereo amp you had heard and when the money was available a X350.8 was your dream amp. Am I wrong? What has changed?
It's the year 2021... Jay tried more amps after those amps. Is your car the best car right now? What if you were able to afford a better car next year? Wouldn't that car automatically pretty much kill what you drive today? Yes...it's common sense. It's evolution..
@@jaysaudiolab While cell phones, televisions, iPads etc., changes and the improvements are quite obvious from one year to the next I am not sure that there are such significant improvements in the sound of hifi components. For example, many prefer the sound of the Pass Labs x250.5 versus the newer x250.8. Do a search for a x250.5 to see whether you can find one available for sale in the US. After trying unsuccessfully to purchase an x250.5 for a few months I ended up buying a newer model.
@@neilsingh709 I definitely agree 👌🏼. One cannot compare smart phones ( where more often than not simple design changes make 90% of the yearly „innovation“) with power amps which are properly constructed ….in this case by Nelson Pass who is regarded and has a worldwide reputation as one of the two (or maybe three geniuses on the planet). And even within the car analogy - which is oftentimes used (sometimes more suitably than in others) the „real“ innovation is smaller than the companies make you believe….It.‘s mostly gimmicks that change and sometimes look a bit more modern…but simply check out the gas consumption from a similar car model from 20 years ago and compare it it with a model today (not talking huge SUV‘s here but normal limousine) the actual consumption is ALMOST the same or indeed the SAME…. What people tend to overlook: there is a thing called MARKETING…and it’s a H.U.G.E. thing…and they plant it in your Head to make it even bigger …and it works….a lot 😉
@@jaysaudiolab For you, it’s just the flavor of the day.. Trying to wow everyone.. whatever..
Hi Jay. I get the evolution and agree however, other than new appearances, add ons such as auto turn off, etc, etc., do the Pass amps sonically measure up? I don't think Pass is trying to compete with really high end components hence their prices. Apples to apples.
The XA25 is a different design and sonically from many opinions is a fantastic sounding amp. Maybe this is where they are headed as a company or evolution as you mentioned.
Totally agree with you, Pass, Mc, Krell are all MID Fi with different flavors.
BAWHAHAHA! Jay just said that Pass Labs was "mid-fi gear!!" Dagger to the hifi heart!!! Lol, he just put Pass into the Parasound, Emotiva Rotel, Marantz catagory!! Low blow, bro!! Ouch!
Love Your channel. Very interesting stuff. Do you have any experience with Coda?
Hi Jay. I believe in what You are telling, about the need for Pass Labs to employing new engineers. To get new, and maybe better ideas, in building amps.. But look what happened to Mark Levinson, when he "left the building", and some new guys took over.. The sound did not automaticly getting better..So Pass Labs need to be very accurate in their emplloying new folks
Now Pass Labs must overhaul their systems and staff compliment to appease just one customer!!?🤔 What about the rest of their loyal community?🤷♂️ This is insanity at its best. Pass Labs profit margins are probably intact. So why risk that for a single bloke who happens to have deep pockets and now thinks everyone should jump on his whimsical rants!?🤷♂️
I am extremely satisfied with pass lab's sound and service policy as it is now. Therefore, I just want this to continue unimpeded as it is now. But little by little - if possible - doing their job, for lowering the global clima problems. For instans by making more effective power supplys. As I hear it, this is what Jay also are talking about. And I agree with him in this case. So WHEN personnel changes are needed at the Pass Labs development team, - which will become necessary as the current skilled team gets older, and therefore retires - I think they should be very careful with who they hire as replacements . Just my own opinion.
@@alfagerup I don't for one second believe that JLA Audio cares that much about the mythical *_global w*rming_* If he did, he'd make mention of that in the video... which he clearly didn't!🤷♂️ He only complained about his listening room being *toasty* 🤷♂️ Not sure if that qualifies as the so called global w*rming (I'll reserve my comments thereto for now). Nelson Pass is surely aware of those heat emissions, and so are other manufacturers. However, it is the nature of the Class A topology to emit copious amounts of heat. That is NOT unique to Pass Labs amplifiers. 🤷♂️ So am not sure what you mean by *_"making more effective power supply"_* ?🤷♂️ In regards to staff complement continuity, I'd say Pass Labs have been in the business for decades, thus they most probably know how to navigate that transition.
they keep using the same toshiba jfet and mosfet in preamp and amps so that makes sense to what you're stated. also ayre use the same jfet and mosfet as well you can't buy those transistors anymore. the reason they use the same transistors is because the item measure well and sound good. All audio products to me is a work in progress and waiting game for new ideas.
Thanks for being a TRUTH TELLER in Audio very refreshing.
@@braxtkj try to keep supporting this channel and have your buddies subscribe. Every bit helps!
I think you have hit the nail on the head; “measure well AND SOUND GOOD “.
Parasound uses those Toshiba transistors as well, and stocked enough for next couple of years
Really enjoying this content. Please speak about more brands as u have so much experience
more to come soon. Just share my videos with your friends have them subscribe!
Hey Jay, your first point is pretty serious, it's a big statement. You said Pass does everything well but nothing excellent, and that there is a clear separation between pass and the best stuff. But...Pass's flagship products are priced in that top tier category, I'm talking 100-200k for amp/preamp. In your opinion, which companies are clearly a step above Pass in excellence?
He said at the end of the video two brands Gryphon and Constellation as step ups from Pass.
@@adamk4716 has he said anything about boulder or d'agostino?
@@peteralmo I didn’t hear that in the video so he’s have to respond directly
@@peteralmo nope …he didn’t. He just mentioned that he thinks Boulder has put in more technological effort to improve the sound of their new power amps. But that has been a bit more „necessary“ from what I heard of their slightly older stuff IMHO
It should be noted that yourComments are premised upon loudspeakers that are essentially utilizing a crossover and are not dipole in nature. System synergy plays a very big part of how an amplifier is going to sound on a particular set of loudspeakers. We have tried many other brands of amps on the GT audio work speakers which are extremely unique in the marketplace and that they do not utilize any crossover on the main planar magnetic panel.With that being said it should be noted that you were listening to every amplifier hooked up to the speakers through a crossover which will affect the sonics and how the amplifier ultimately will sound. I welcome you to hear the GT speakers with a Pass Labs amps and I am sure you will have an Epiphany.
great points Steve. One day i will be in front of what you have been mentioning. Hopefully soon!
Yep.. it’s all about synergy.. matching components.. not just throwing money at them..
Absolutely love this video. You’ll never convince the fan boys but your real audience here are the fence sitters. You’re doing the silent audience a huge favour so ignore the noise and keep them coming.
I think the credibility of your opinion would be more valid if you compared all these amps with the same speakers. You often change speakers and amps within a short period of time. Your all over the board with so much equipment over short periods of time. Did you try the Pass amps with those speakers flanking you? Maybe the synergy of Pass amps and those speakers next to you would be better? I don’t have a dog in this race as I’ve never heard a Pass Labs amp in person, but your opinion doesn’t seem to be based on an apples to apples comparisons. You might coincidentally be right on the money with your assessments, but without direct comparisons with the same speakers, one could only conclude that your opinion isn’t a fair or scientific one. This applies to any amp or speakers, not just Pass. Having said all that, I do enjoy your videos.
Thanks - noted
Love your honesty Jay, with all your equipment that comes into your room.
thanks!
I think most of his circuit innovation stems from his Firstwatt products. He tends to play around with unique circuit topologies and odd components there. If he likes them enough, he implements them into the Pass stuff. Hence the XS series.
Long time follower of your Chanel Jay. Thanks for your hard work and being real about your findings. Can you do a video based on your experience so far what is top brand speaker, amp, pre-amp, DAC, Etc.?
That might be hard to do
kool... new info
Those two lights reflecting in your head .Make you look like with little devilish horns.But your reasoning is correct
A fresh approach comes to mind with innovation --- AGD Productions and Class D GaNTube technology --- heat is not an issue. I agree that excessive heat from audio components is not good and a turn off for a lot of audiophiles.
Agreeing with you or not is beside the point. Thank you Jay for triggering a great thread of comments about "what best means," "innovative disruptions vs incremental improvements", or even the necessary pursuit of efficiency (be it for energy, materials or else). Thanks for creating such great conversation Jay!
Pandora vs C900U. THAT I would find a compelling comparison. Im sure the Gryphon is better BUT enough to warrant all the extra dough (Law of diminishing returns) in your opinion?
Might come sooner than later
@@jaysaudiolab J our buddy Albert from Chicago hooked me up with CL1000 Luxman tube pre amp , wonder how it would Perform in your system , maybe you'll find one local to demo would be cool ..
@@datka3 could be a possibility. i don't have any plans though
I agree with both videos. Same I heard. But I only slightly disagree with Pass Labs not reacting to cables. That many times is half because of the streamer, with Pass Labs and Mcintosh you can save a lot of money by going all in on the streamer, then they will react a lot more with cables. Plus Pass Labs is a bit hollow/grey, so what people usually do it subconsciously gravitate towards cables like cardas and such that are warmer, which then makes the other cables on the system react slightly less compared to more normal cables on the market that perhaps are a bit more neutral.
DEPENDS ON THE AMP!
Thanks for your insight, Jay. Much appreciated. What about Accuphae compared to Pass Labs or Luxman? ßAll three brands are in a similar price range with their products.
Great video! I would love to see a Pass Labs vs Coda shootout.
Coda’s Stereo 16.0 is a pretty impressive amp (from what I have read and heard).
I agree, I own a 8.0 (16.0 was beyond budget). Their newer models have a new type of capacitors and some reviewers found out they are extremely quiet and resolving, without grain and being analitical. It is said they outperform some significantly more expensive Pass Labs amps.
@@rickgerritsen8972
Good call! And rated at 100 amps of current per channel, too! Enjoy your amazing gear!!
i might bring it in here soon.. you NEVER KNOW!
@@jaysaudiolab
Your original content is awesome! Thanks and looking forward to that next video…like always!
Any opinions on the XP-12 preamp? A stretch for me but one that is on my list.
Mid Hi.... OUCHERS!!!!!!!!!
Hey guys think about all the Pass Labs Amps that will hit the used market because of this video lol!!! Its a good time to be an Audiophile. Thanks Jay
Yes there might be more but if you looked on these sites for years, always a good selection of Pass gear. Not to much with First Watt...
None
Hifisharks: Used Pass Labs INT-250 ever sold: 77. Used Gryphon Diablo 300 ever sold: 418
Jay, this is the type of honesty that greatly helps brands grow and they need to hear this and make a decision as to what they want to be going forward. You had very fair points and a clear analysis. This was my favorite video from your channel so far.
Thank you
Absolutely spot on Jay! I am an analog dinosaur, that has been forced into the digital world through new technologies in sound recording boards for my home Church! You have been a Great motivating force for me to update my understanding of Newer Equipment and Amplification! Thank you for your truthful introspection on staying fresh and up to date! GOD Bless!
Thank you
Hello how do you rate Jeff Rowland 625s2 power amps ? I think they sound very musical and detailed almost reaching the top maybe a shade lower than MSB or Boulder
Jay just a further thought; I think your cons are a little excessive. During the last year, it is your second most used amp. And some of the comparisons have been, well very much against pass. I.e. essence v 350.8 & 600.8.
Class a v ab. Why not essence v ax.60 or 160..
As a consumer, dealing with diminishing returns, I would probably have pass xa160 v essence. To me similar sound, pass@ $44k v essence @ $66k (in oz). Simple. Happy camper.
Thank you !
People don't want to spend 100k to find the product is obsolete in two years. Pass Labs equipment retains its resale value over an extended period of time. This shows a concern for customers investment to Pass Lab's. Pass Labs has excellent customer service and quality control.
Jay I enjoyed the ride but its time for me to let you go. I wish you the best.
Good luck
I applaud Jay and his resourcefulness. His ability to personally audition the best equipment in the world and share his thoughts is pretty amazing - so is his energy. No wonder he's in such good shape!
My only input here is that I went from Krell (FBP mono's) to PS Audio mono's to D'Agostino Momentum Mono's and then to Pass Labs XA160.8's and find them best for me, in my room, with everything else staying the same. All source elements, cables, furniture, etc.
His ears are his.....but the dynamic way a good number of other pieces move in and out can make comparisons difficult
"I refuse to buy old technology ...!!"
Who bought all those Pass Labs products you had on your channel??🤔
@Piyath But not the best class A sound, far from it
@@mjot2360 Doesn’t Suncoast sell Pass anymore?
Hi Jay, hows the difference between constellation and pass labs XS?
Consider my consultation service where we can go over these types of questions.
Did you ever listen to some Pioneer or Sony top gear like Pioneer M7/C7 or Sony R series amplification?
Best regards.
Never change a winning team Jay?!And what about Spectral,a 100 years the same but still sells.
I'm looking for an integrated amplifier with a dac in the 5-6k range, what's your suggestions. I'm running Klipsch Cornwall III's.
Hey Jay do you know you have your shirt on inside out just being observant.
14 minutes repeating "change for sake of change", useless
Good is the enemy of great.
Jay, Very good reviews - I prefer these comments videos.
Jay, I've got a tube power amplifier 30w class A. Can any Wilson Audio speakers like the bookshelf speakers work well?
i am trying to do more of these videos. It looks like this is what my crowd wants more of
what is excellent?
Another great video Jay 👍👍
I love your honesty.
thank you
Nelson Pass likes to set the bias very high, thus the heat output in his components.
@Jaime, why does Pass like to set his bias very high? What is the reason?
@@dlmp70 - when I bought an Adcom GFA-555 back in 1985 (which was designed by Nelson Pass), it didn't run that hot. A couple of years later I sent it to a guy who did upgrades for amps (star grounding, new internal wiring, larger caps, and higher biasing). When I got it back it ran like a furnace, so I called the mod guy - he said Nelson liked to run high bias for a more organic sound. That is why his designs run very hot (less distortion).
I appreciate the points made but I’ve heard some carefully put together vintage systems in Japan that absolutely smoke some cutting edge products of today. Horses for courses!!!
Real Hifi completely trashed Pass Labs saying it wasn't high end hardware at all.
I disagree with you. old is gold new is shit. People used to make amplifiers with their own hands and now amplifiers are are mate in smt machines. Analog is king when it comes to sound. Real audiophiles but Single Ended Triodes amps not the amps your talking about. You are talking about amps that cost more than a budget car. Most people don't have that kind of money so they never gonna hear it. I bet old amps are more enjoyable than these new overpriced amps.
Have you tried the Mark Levinson 536 monos ? I Agree ,with what you said about Pass Labs. On the other hand a more modern approach is the French company Devialet ......1000 pro...... System synergy always.
I would like to know what jay thinks about Devialet too. Im a previous Devialet owner, but to me it was thin sounding midrange and the sound lacked color and life
@@henriksrensen3220 Yes ,Pass Labs is old school amplification, and Devialet is definitely the modern approach. It's all about synergy. At HiFi shows,JBL & Mark Levinson are mostly used together.
There are MANY different Pass amps, so its ridiculous to say they dont excel (then why do most reviewers love their stuff??) Also you are often biased because they dont cost $50k. Cost bias is REAL, and you feel like many here that the more something is, the better it is. Also YOU ARE WRONG about pass not designing a "sliding bias" design (Try the X Series)!
A tad unfair. Nelson Pass makes some very inventive and experimental low wattage amps under the FirstWatt brand that can achieve great results when paired with the right low impedance speakers, and at a price ordinary folks can afford. Heck, the Pass Labs XA25 is one of the most transparent sounding amps on the planet, and a bargain to boot.
A bargain?
As a fans of Pass Labs, I do not quit agree with Pass Labs been “midFi”, especially considering Pass Labs XS300 was named one of the best amplifiers ever, and be favored over the Dan D’Agostino Momentum M400 in Jay’s own previous reviews. However, I do agree Pass Labs has been idling too long without coming out with any innovation design or product. And not been able to eco-friendly, and need to warm up for two days before sounding great are just not acceptable by any measure.
Exactly
why dont you say nelson pass
I can't compare new stuff because no high end manufacturers show their topology or their insides!
I don't think it just a "class" whether A, AB, B, D and so on. I find the best amp sound for me is more about being "single ended" and granted most if not all se are class A.
But you don't have to be single ended to be a class A component. I don't prefer them as much.
I own pass labs all class a power amps ..monoblocs and vertically biamped… I use a Thrax Dionysus pre and Orpheus phono .. in fact your cons are reasonable observations.
Jay try PBN speakers. Maybe they can out Wilson Wilson....maybe.
greatly appreciate your honesty
Just a note about Pass Labs: People are still tying Nelson Pass with Pass Labs thinking he is still a part of their sound. He has been engineering his own line for some time called First Watt.
If Nelson was still part of them then maybe or more probably Pass Labs would have a different sound!
Nelson is still very much part of Pass he’s just not the president anymore. He’s still a chief developer and has even said there are new products in the works he is working on at Pass.
@@sean_heisler For some time he has not been that involved with the Pass engineering team. His main concern is with his other company First Watt.
Lol.. you know very little..
@@user-eh3qz4zv1o He’s still a creative developer for them, that was my only point. He states that in many recent interviews.
Hey Jay, you call Pass stuff “mid-if” ? Hahaha .. for me and at least 10 people I know it is high-end bro’. I have XA 30.8 with Lampizator pre/dac on it and absolutely satisfied with the sound. Previously I was on D class - Primare and Devialet - not even close to Pass Labs.
I agree and have similar experiences but with pass diy amps, hot as hell.
Very interesting take. Thank you.
my pleasure
.8 series is 7 years old, and xs even older... I wonder if they will release something new serie one day (i dont count the 25w amp). Anyway Passlabs was my entry to high end 10years ago with .5 serie, at that time it "wow"ed me, but now, after listing .8 series and lot other brand, i find Passlabs pretty average. Never heard xs though
They may not excell at any audio spectrum but there are no shorcomings either compared to products that will give you fatigue...
i hear no lie. This is the hard truth right here
Thanks 👍
Heat aside..Maybe PASS just understands the law of diminishing returns.
Can we get back to the pre amp comparisons now?
Soon