VT Prusik TESTED: Here are our results
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 бер 2022
- We pulled on 8mm and 7mm Bluewater VT Prusiks on semi-static nylon climbing ropes 10mm, 8mm and 6mm diameters. Brent Roth ( / whitewaterpirate ) showed us how he uses it in a canyon and Cory Grossman ( / grossmancory ) showed us a few tricks arborists use with it.
Find the data on our blog www.hownot2.com/post/vt-prusi...
👉 Learn and SHOP at www.hownot2.com/shop
👉 Best EMAILS on Earth: www.hownot2.com/signup
👉 SUPPORT US and get gear discounts hownot2.com/support
👉 10% off ROCKY TALKIE by clicking www.hownot2.com/rocky
Intro
00:53 What is a VT Prusik and How to Tie it
09:24 Pull Tests
25:47 Using it on the drop tower
27:34 How arborists use the VT Prusik
31:51 Melting the VT
Check out our new store! hownot2.store/
More arborist material would be great, there are so many techniques and sooo much specific gear we use and it would be great to see when and how these fail. The forces on (personal or rigging) anchors could be super interesting, the behavior of various gear under dynamic loads, how spliced eyes fail, could go on for ages with ideas. Could even send some materials to test if you are cool to break them, I think quite a few 'tree people' would appreciate that.
Yes please!
Tree worker here, absolutely craving data on rigging, the forces are immense. Our ppe seems to be not so strained though given the lack of dynamic forces.
I would like to see a series of misuse the petzel zigzag single strand use without chikane and as a lanyard
Also the tru force of a basal anchor at the top vs bottom my thought is that some friction at the top change the forces and the whole ringing topic is huge negative rigging, block vs rings
Yea would be really interesting, even if there aren't lots of dynamic falls, I've seen videos of arborists getting flung back and forth by the trees so that could cause the higher loads.
@@sorenbrinkmann3407 on the zig zag : it'll slip. August hunicke did a test, might wanna check it out ;-)
As a climber I love to see more arborist and other industry stuff here. There must be tons of interesting gear there that I've never heard about yet :)
As a "RAT" I really enjoy these videos as well.. so much new stuff for me, since I've never been around rock-climbing.
The gear we use in industries is so much bigger and bulkier 😅
I hope this guy becomes a permanent how not 2 crew member, his stoke for testing gear is awesome.
Thanks
Definitely second this, not only was he stoked, but he really seemed to be thinking ahead before each test and making sure they were testing what they were intending.
Yay! Finally made it to Arborist material, well done 😀. There's probably more than 50 friction hitches like the VT that are used by Arborists. It would be rad to do a comparison of the most popular 5-20. Also, the basal anchor with the carabiner is pretty controversial in the industry especially for rigging. I don't have an issue doing it on larger diameter wood but it would be cool to break test choking configurations on different diameter wood. With and without a half hitch before it. Also some pretty interesting topics with regards to loading comparing stationary rope systems to moving rope systems. Too much cool stuff to get into
I like the idea of seeing more arborist content! The 10-20 minute video format you've been doing is what appeals to me the most. Enough to cover one point and pique my interest to do my own research, but not necessarily exhaust a topic.
Good job guys. Your test results are consistent with others that have been done since the VT Prusik was introduced. Also, thank you for the acknowledgement, but it's not completely accurate.
I learned how to make a valdotain/valdostano in Europe back in the 90s. We took a length of dynamic climbing rope and pulled out two core strands, then tied an overhand knot at each end. Missing two core strands did make it flatten out on the host rope, providing more surface area contact, thus more friction.
I did not come up with that idea. I only improved upon it. The nylon valdotain/valdostano could only be used in wet conditions -- wet cord on wet host rope -- to dissipate heat. Dry on dry the friction build-up would melt through the cord. I have some humorous anecdotes to verify that.
The improvement was to make a commercial product with a Technora sheath so it could be used in dry conditions as well as wet.
More VT Prusik info and uses: ua-cam.com/video/Z-xjqI1WOY8/v-deo.html
Thanks for your input Rich!
The Valdotain tresse (VT Prusik) was used throughout Europe by canyoners after they discovered taking a few strands from the core of a rope allowing it to grip in a way that benefited them. The ends were tied in a loop of a short piece of climbing rope which worked a treat on wet rope. The Valdotain tresse is very well used by Arborists globally. Rich Carlson added the great idea to upgrade the Valdotain tresse via Bluewater and use Technora material and sew the end terminations. What a great product!
I don't entirely care about long/short videos, I want you to be happy with what you release, and for you to include what you deem valuable information.
Love this more in-dept format, personally I'm a fan of these being between 25 and 30 mins but ideally not longer than 30? I tend to watch them over lunch the day they're released. I'm really enjoying the canyoneering stuff and would like more arborist content. That said I always want MOAR bolting content because Bobby and people like him are the unsung heroes of recreational rock climbing.
More arborist gear please. I find it interesting, even if I'm not a tree monkey.
And I'm fine with the style/format
Tree climbing and rock climbing are 2 different worlds it’s rad to see arborist stuff on your channel. Swift water rescue would be a cool topic to cover as well
I met a rafter who thought what I did was cool. Never would have thought those 2 worlds overlap
It would be really cool to see some tests/failures with a FLIR camera, seeing how much the heat spreads/doesn't spread through different materials in different applications.
I want to see more rope access equipment. But the arborist stuff is cool as well
I'm in the military and I learned to rapel with a guide hand above the device and a break hand below. When I started climbing outdoors and learned to rig my 3rd hand, it bugged me to have it below the device because I didn't like having both hands below the device to manage the prusik and the brake. It wasn't until about a year in that I learned about asymmetric friction hitches, in particular the VT Prusik, and now I can't go back. It feels soooooo much more natural.
It possible to manage the prussic below with the brake hand and have a guide hand above.
Hey I just wanted to say I found your channel a couple of months back and have been catching up ever since. I have zero interest in climbing myself. However, these videos are great to watch for many other reasons. Some of the things I have learnt will apply in to things I do, but generally they are very interesting and very watchable. Top work!
I agree I would love to see more arborist stuff!
For the format of these videos, maybe having some text headers at the different points would help the viewer know what the next segment will be about.
As a climbing arborist I watch your videos exactly for this sort of content. I would love to see more arborist specific stuff. I appreciate this more then you know.
Best video yet! Not only did you cover so many great things, you did it with Brent, whose insights are always really cool and helpful.
I'd love to see more arborist and canyoning content. Especially if you have Corey and Brent there for it.
The timescale of this video is also perfect for me, it's filled with content, but doesn't feel rushed. That way, one can really soak it all in.
Yes, it would be nice to see more arborist content, fall arrest and some high angle rescue gear to the test. Do to May past job as a third party safety inspector for cranes, hoist and fall arrest system. Where we would do pull test on window washing anchors, Horizontal life lines and pretty much any lifting device.
I personally think the 12-18 minute range is perfect for these videos. BUT sometimes a good conversation is 1000% worth a long video. thinking of the legends of climbing type vids
Story time.
I have that same big S shape load cell from Amazon. I’m a tree guy. I discovered heat and abrasion will destroy a rope before the MBS usually. I had a 5/8 Samson stable braid (16,300lbs) that broke at only 10,500ish because it melted. Why did it melt? Knowing a steel carabiner is only rated around 50kn I instead opted to just pass lots of strands of the same rope through the eye of the load cell which was anchored around a large 2dbh smooth bark maple. I pulled on it with a big truck slowly. It was even terminated with a bowline but it didn’t fail there, believe it or not. I probably had 4 passes of rope through this thing. As it turned out, the rope melted as it stretched, passing through the metal load cell eye (basically a bow shackle eye) and heated up to failure. Had I just tied a basket configuration with 2 bowlines it would have probably broke at MBS. Just something to think about if you place equipment into a bunch of wraps on an anchor instead of a tow strap or tree slings with a proper eye splice, etc. keep in mind those splices require beefy bow shackles though. Doubling up on carabiners, as this channel will show, doesn’t mean you get twice the strength. The gates can also become compromised even in the D shaped ones.
TLDR; Wraps can work, but it was much less MBS than anticipated.
please guys get into arborist material looks pretty interesting. love vt
It's great to see the VT getting some love!
I wish we had seen Ryan or Bobby tie one of them. Friction hitches in general can't just be slapped on a rope and trusted to engage, but the VT is especially fiddly in my experience and not something you can count on to execute efficiently if you don't use it often.
Definitely looking forward to more arborist and rigging content!
I agree on the fiddly knots bit. The VT is definitely a cool knot, but in a real life rescue situation if I needed to descend a loaded rope I'd just use two prusiks with a foot loop.
Just my opinion but this channel seems perfect for some longer videos with shorts to compliment for the attention impaired and maybe draw them in for more. For me it's the personalities that keep we watching beyond just the topic or info I'm after.
I had never seen this. It is extremely helpful seeing techniques and skills like this.
Definitely would like to see more Arborist type stuff, I've been climbing cypress trees on the weekends here in Florida, perfect for your rope smooth and clean. The technora is tough stuff they make firemen escape ropes out of it too, I think the claim is 1100ﾟ melting point. Here's one more if you hook up a vinegar bath with a couple of those 9 V batteries you can anodize your titanium hardware, higher voltage lighter color.
Yes. More Brent and more Arborist / Rope Access content. It’s super cool and useful to see lots of the same or similar gear being used in the different applications! Break gear fear for all I say!
Bobby, those are actually AAAA cells and not all 9v batteries have them.
The effectiveness of the Prusik is mostly a relationship between the diameters of the two ropes. Generally, it is better to have a small diameter for the Prusik than the rope it is grabbing. As you observed there is a tendency to slip when the inverse is true.
Not a climber not climbing advice!
Awesome, I was actually asked to write a review of the hollowblock and the review was basically "an Eye-to-eye prusik like the VT or flex cord is better in every way". They chose not to publish the review ;-)
I am from the technical rescue camp, but really all of this information is valuable. I have learned a ton from the sport climbing community, the canyoning community and the arborists. Nothing wrong with cross pollination
Arguably one of the most useful videos yet, this is the type of content I come here for, applications and break tests/slip tests are super interesting
I would really like to see how some of the different friction hitches hold, I use the schwabisch prusik for tree work. It would also be interesting to see how it works on tree specific lines like drenaline or arbormaster.
I was brought to this channel to help learn the ropes so they say but with a background and primary interest as an arborist and rope climbing has also taken over the deer hunting/tree stand community and now we all need to know knots and ropes in order to hunt deer. Gone are the days of a wood tree stand nailed in, now we use ascenders, prusiks, and climbing harnesses (look up tree saddles).
I want as many videos with Brent as he is willing to let you make.
Incredible. I've been using a VT prussik as my chalk bag belt and love seeing the testing on them. I think they will gain a lot more popularity. Love the format, love the length, love the detail! thank you!
Ryan,
Very impressive performance of the VT Prusik! Technora (an Aramid product) is virtually indestructible. You and Brent did an outstanding job. Thanks for an excellent video!
love the arborist stuff! Would love to see some bow line stuff, since we "tree monkeys" pretty much only use them, none of this figure 8 stuff
Outstanding segment gentlemen. So for rescue operations we use the VT quite a bit. We have found that moving past the standard VT configuration and utilizing the XT configuration creates a much better hitch to release under load. By adding in an "X" after your 3 wraps you create a wee gap before the braid. This gap allows you to break the tension much better and elicits way more control. The Bluewater VT has got to be one of the best commercialized rescue devices any single person can own. The possibilities are many.
Been watching for a while and I am stoked that you’re getting into the arborist stuff- the algorithm sends a lot of us your way. I love long form content too
Not only do I like the longer form videos, I thought this was a great use of it. I would in fact suggest this as a great form to jump off into a limited or continuing series of videos on rather specific techniques much as you have done with bolting. The use and application of friction hitches itself could easily be 6 videos at 30 minutes each. I think it would be great to reference some of the standards of use for people to utilize if they wish to explore safe use for themselves (digging through manufactures sites and safety organizations can yield some gems, but it's hard to correlate sometimes). And a big shout out for Bluewater who makes some awesome stuff that, while it may lack some of the sexy of other manufactures, is absolutely solid.
Awesome content! Really like adding all aspects of rope work from rec climbing, to work at height techniques. Keep up the strong work!
As an Arborist i would love more Content from that Material and Techiques, because i think a lot of it can be used in other Climbingsituations.
Keep up the good Work.
Love how you did this one ! 🎉🎉 the format is great and yes I am a old Nerd when it comes to exploring the world . Thanks
Thank you, Ryan and all. Educational and eye opening.
I love to see long entertaining videos (with useful tricks and information like this one). What a great video!
One of the best videos on this channel so far. I learnt a lot. I kind of like a mix of fewer "deep dive" longer videos which I watch when I have time and more shorter videos (~10min) which I watch as soon they are published.
Love this format. Tons of new info as well as the fun break tests
Very interesting. I enjoyed the format like this, length and all. Would love to see more arborist stuff.
I like the format. I enjoy the conversational aspect most of all
As an apprentice arborist and climber I love the crossover content. Long videos get me stoked so keep those going!
You're doing great on the videos . I'm glad to see specific discipline and cross discipline content !
here is a little tip using the video at 7:06, you can put the rope going inside/threw the beanr and then hook it to you, it will act as a hitch tending pulley meaning it will be easyr to pull slack though it. and for you arborists you can use that setup instead of a hitch climber pulley
Love the deep dive at the start explaining the typical usage of the gear before you destroy it.
I used to do ziplines and rescue we used prusiks all the time.
I truly enjoy your videos. I watch the entire length of all your videos.
this video just stays on my list and I repeat it for memory sake. great episode
Funny to me because im just starting climbing with no rocks around me so i have to start with arborist stuff. But ive been watching you for a while. You just learning the knots im starting with is inspiring. There is so much to know with this hobby... as for the videos, i like them long and detailed lol 30 or 40 mins for one knot and how its used in different applications or industries is awesome. If there is specialty gear thats used for only one application and it requires an hour to talk about and show all the fun parts then im here for it!
Much love from the tree side, loved the content before but the tip of the hat to the arb community is awesome :D keep up the good work
I have used Arborists as my go to source for knots, bends, and hardware free solutions for years. Good job. You have a tom of content you can go through with them.
What an interesting video, you can’t get this anywhere on UA-cam, thanks Ryan!
I'm not sure why, but this is one of the coolest most interesting episodes you've done. If thats the arborist gear, I'm totally up for more arborist gear.
Probably one of my favorite episodes so far.
Yes more arborist stuff... there is so much stuff that's useful..... other friction hitches... the distel, Blake's hitch, kliemheist etc... great channel keep up the good work
Love long videos. Love Brent. Love actual force graphs. Yes. Keep it up.
Thanks, man.
like the longer form videos. feels like you can fully dive into subjects the way you like to 😎
Love these graphs! And that sweet prusik.
I like the length of the video and more information about how and why to use knots and gear. More arborist stuff would be cool to see. Thanks guys.
Would love to see more verity of content; arborist, rope access, etc. having the longer videos seeing how different industries use the same equipment really give you a better idea on how the equipment works and how it can be used.
This was a fantastic video! I love the VT prusik by bluewater. It is one of the most versatile pieces of gear you can have
We use the Bluewater VT Prusik as the third hand in our kit for slope access work. Great product.
Super interesting love seeing the charts and the length was great
I've used the VT Prusik above the LOV2 as a backup for TR solo. Works great.
I have used the valdotain tresse in many situations, climbing, arborist work and materials handling. I have even used it to hold zip line tension on a static rope although it was just in a local park and at no poit higher then 8 foot and just for myself and my little one to have a laugh. I think you would find the world of climbing arborist and work positioning equipment highly interesting and hope to see you make more videos on the subjects
Thanks for the info! Please keep it.
5:48 eye use something simular, when eye wood tighen up anchor lines for my fishing net, and its impressive how much some of these "knots" can hold
I don't care about how long the video is as long as what you're talking about is ONE focused story to tell. Videos that are long because they're mixing too many stories are hard to watch. Short videos that only tell part of a whole story can be fine if they're nicely chopped up, but often feel abrupt. The Shorts you are doing are great, nice simple self-contained stories.
Honesly, like a short for every single test run. It generates more content and tells a broken story that you tie together nicely with videos like this.
I work for an arborist for a while, and we used VTs on our ropes with a micro pulley, and we noticed that if you whipped, they were harder to loosen.
Love this. As a knot nerd I have a VT Prussik. Cool tool.
Great video! My company uses a hitch climber pulley on that setup.
One of the first bit of gear i learned to use, other than my descender, was the VT prusik.
This is so informative!!! Fantastic reporting!🌻🌼🐝
This was so awesome. Really amazing. I flinched when he was explaining the surprised gripping reaction, I just imagined him sliding down full speed onto the guy he was going to rescue.
I wonder how different this holds with the other end loaded. Some of the friction must come from the main line being able to snake like that, but a load might reduce that!
I would definitely love to see more arborist content on the channel
Very interesting all the test about how hard is release the VT prusik, also the difference between diameters. One part from our assessment as a canyoning guide in Spain is descent from a tight rope, because the casualty is hanging on it, using a Valdotain do the pick up, change to your descender and continue going down with the casualty.
The way to ascend with the figure 8 is called Italian Style and the French Prusik is the Machard or Klemheist not the Valdotain.
Great video!!!
Can you test a Connecticut Tree Hitch? Curious to see what that breaks at, and if the rope in the knot or the carabiner (loaded as it is in a kinda weird way) breaks first
I seriously have been waiting all morning!
Another vote for more arborist content. I like to see the how and why of different disciplines.
I'd love to see tests like this done on a bachmann hitch. Also, I'm super interested in more arborist content.
This is awesome. all climbing styles have value to lend to the others.
Always learning!!
It's really interesting content.
Thank you.
I love it! I bought a VT and a helmet from extreme gear today. Forgot to use the code though.
I’ve been an arborist myself for many years now and I made the step from DRT to SRT not too long ago. I’d love to see much more stuff like the last 5 minutes of this video on the channel. Maybe one day you’ll even get to break test a rope runner pro (they’re freaking expensive lol).
I do tree care work and have gotten into rock climbing more over the last year or so. So to me, this is a rad combination! Keep it up ! I love the VT knot! Great to see some numbers and testing with it. You should test some of the mechanical friction devices such as the Rope Runner Pro, Petzl ZigZag, Rock Exotica Akimbo and there are several others out there!
great episode!
Love the longer vids
I love the long format video
Love the channel! Is there any chance you can try testing base anchors/tree anchors, high lines with ropes for arborist work, spliced ends of ropes and if via Ferrata clips are just as strong when twisted thanks
Aramid is the same fiber used in Kevlar. The fiber optic industry uses roughly 1mm as a filler in fiber optic cables to prevent stretch. In my testing the 1mm linear aramid didn’t break until 2 tons of force was applied. Aramid is awesome if you don’t want stretch.
Enjoyed the content 👌 good length and the comic burning of the vt .. proper back yard science 😂 explore all different disciplines
That was fun. It would be cool if you did some tests with the different hitches you can tie with a hitch cord, as well as with hitch cords of different materials. There are a lot of interesting tools in the arborists toolbox that I think could be useful in other disciplines. Oh, and one thing you should definitely test are some old VT's with worn sheaths, because the sheath does change a lot with use and the world does need to know how that effects performance. We know that a lot of other technora cord looses strength rather quickly just from being flexed, but maybe the nylon core protects from that? I also would be interested in seeing tests on your dyneema-sheath rope with more wraps.