Climbing vs canyon rappelling
Вставка
- Опубліковано 24 тра 2022
- THIS IS VIDEO 5 OF 10 - See textbook 👉 www.hownot2.com/post/canyon-r...
Here is a free course featuring Brent Roth about different ways to set up rappels through a canyon. This considers ease of rigging, abrasion, ease of rescue and how efficient it is to move people through the canyon.
Episodes 1-5 show the systems,
Episode 6 shows how it can all be done with 1 device,
Episodes 7-8 are friction tests,
Episodes 9-10 are break tests of the hardware and the knot blocks.
All the episodes are in the textbook
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Double Static Rope System
02:27 - Adding friction
06:00 - Careful, it's hard to rescue
09:29 - Double Releasable
13:30 - DoubleD Static
20:23 - DoubleD Releaseable
TEXTBOOK: www.hownot2.com/post/canyon-rope-systems & Check out our canyon designs on www.hownot2swag.com
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This whole direction the channel has taken in awesome! I would love to do a tree climb with you two & a rope access technician to hear all your perspectives, knowledge, & ideas as they apply to my industry.
I'm editing a video currently introing moving rope systems vs the other way and then we can start getting nerdy about them. I do like the A-Z content that are stand alone enough. Starting to film the big wall course in 5 weeks, that one I'm jazzed about.
@@HowNOT2 “the other way” = Static Rope System. I look forward to it. Really appreciate all your efforts, passion, & knowledge Ryan!
@@woodpeckerarborist Yes, that is what I thought it was. I'm back in the states but still on Thailand time and haven't slept all night. Brain is real foggy!
Can't wait to watch the srt, drt, and mrt videos.
You mean you want to see him climb trees with an arborist (agree) but that's not the same as roped access which is also interesting but already better documented and regulated so probably a lower priority for how not to?
I like that caves were mentioned. Growing up going in the caves around Mt. Adams (especially Dynamited Cave) was definitely a situation where you didn’t want the rope touching anything. Sharp sharp sharp. Also dripping downwards so everything gets stuck when ascending.
Glad that I now know how little I know about repelling! Dunning Kruger effect knowledge canyon floor reached!
Thank you for your hard work and bringing all that knowledge to us. Im waiting for my first Paycheck after Uni to pay for the hours and hours of videos i´ve watched from you over the years. And im still waiting for real rock tests of czech style textile pro. ;)
Glad you like it all. I just have to edit the textile pro in real rock video. Slow pull AND dynamic tests same video. How about you donate when I finally put out that video, it will motivate me to expedite the edit :). I have a contaminated rope video probably coming out this Saturday that is gold!
SO GOOD as usual. Love this content!
Pardon me for not going to all the courses. I am never going to do all you guys are showing. I find the mental exercise of going through the possibilities is good practice for the sailing I do. Of course I started your videos with breaking Dyneema stuff. On boats Dyneema is almost always Super Good Enough. Except when it is not. That is why I watch you break stuff.
can't wait to get back into the canyons! So much fun!
to add to the point he makes @1:20, it's also bad in southwest canyons (sandstone) because when pulling the rope, this is the single biggest reason for rope grooves being carved in canyon walls. Also, great point about rope twists complicating retrieval on a double rope rappel.
I got my hair stuck on an 80 foot rappel in a cave. Fortunately it was a big crack and I could catch a ledge to remove myself from the 8!
I'm wondering, is this the day for HowNot2 video? Here it come...
Like clockwork :)
My first time on an 8mm rope was off a bridge to rescue a friend who's hair got caught in rappel device. Went with a munter with some extra friction. At 260 lbs, was a very fast ride.
These videos have been great! Does Brent offer any rescue courses? If so, where does he offer them out of? Thank you!
Stuck on a rappel above water: To create less tension on the rope, pull up the strands, hold them and stand on them with one foot. Works for me. P.S. I always carry three prusik loops.
Love the canyon series. Can we get a breakdown of ascent systems typically seen in canyoneering. As well as change over from Descending to assent.
Canyons are down, 99.9%. Very rarely up.
@@adventureswithfrodo2721 the key to that statement is 99.9 percent of the time... I am surprised by how many people who canyoneer don't know how to change over or ascend rope.
When doing a simple double strand rappel there is a rescue option. You can isolate both strands at the anchor point using prusiks and then you can rig a contingency block and remove the prusiks and lower the stuck rappeler.
I’m gonna have to do further research to understand what you’ve written, but thank you
In caving, the changeover from descent to ascent is often practiced as an emergency maneuver. If you're on rap and get stuck in a waterfall... It's the same danger as canyoning. But all the lines are single, static, (non releasable) and there's no rescue option.
I'm happy with casual scrambling for the rest of my life but for some reason I still find these videos bingable as fuck. It's like watching people talk about how to walk on fire, except it's even more dangerous and you have to poop at some point.
Also to descend a double rope and prevent the rope from twisting you can clip one of your layniards to one rope (above the descender) and that will separate the ropes.
Those corsette you made are awesome! Why you stopped, please do more content on Canyoning, love it
With so much amazing tech, it's hard to believe that the only way to descend an already-dropped rope is with the "VT". Surely there must be some brand of Jumar or ascender that has a gate that opens, so that you don't need access to feed the rope ends into the device? And with the skill level of these climbers, what's so impossible about doing an around-the-back rappel like it was done for a hundred years before sport climbing? Naturally, I'd back that up with a Prussic (on a sling to my harness) in my high, left hand, that I'd slide down with me as I rappel.
Have you considered contributing towards a third revision of On Rope? The second edition was copyrighted in 1996, and y'all have been capturing a lot of the change since then on your channel & related media.
Howdy! In the diagrams you show at the beginning of the video you have 'double rope system' listed twice in a couple spots, I'm not sure if they should read single and double or if I'm just missing something but I thought I'd point it out! Thanks for all the awesome content!
It's double vs doubled
At 20:00 your buddy could use an acender on top of the rope to pull you up or am I missing something? It would even free your stuck stuff from your decender?
(if sth from your clothing or so is stuck)
Very nice video!
Ryan when are you going to wear your canyon corset?
Brent, you talk about always going down if you're doing it right... Is that a croll on your harness? 😜
The PNW has a normal amount of water. The rest of the world is just very dry.
I'd love it if you could get Brent to talk about the physics and science behind why, durning a 300 foot free hanging rap (such as a single stranded rap that is free hanging for 300 feet in Heaps Canyon in Zion), the first 100 feet you're almost feeding the rope through the rap device, the next 100 are perfect, and the last 100 you have to add friction! If you could explain why this is (is it rope weight? The rope "smoothing a grove" in the device? Forces from above?), that would be awesome!
Simple way to think about it - Just rope becomes lighter. ie less rope below you = less weight helping you brake / slow your speed. Less friction. More speed. More friction you have to add.
@@1on1adventures48 So would it make a diference if the rope was in a rope bag connected to your harness vs. dangling below?
@@BigDaddyAction360 interesting point here. With the rope in a bag (attached to you) - it then won’t change the friction like above. The only thing that will change is the actual weight of the abseiler. By the time you reach the bottom you will be slightly (weight of rope) lighter. So in theory - you will need LESS friction the lower you go. But it’s so little you probably won’t notice the 5% change. Interesting one 🤓
Yes it is simply rope weight. The base friction (before you add any by pulling on the rope) is set by the weight of rope hanging below you. That reduces as you descend. This is why descending on a stop on more than about 70m of 10mil or 100m of 9mil is a pain (a heavier person can abseil on a longer rope before 'too much friction' is an issue). Racks avoid this problem by having a much wider range of friction.
@@BigDaddyAction360 Yes, absolutely makes a difference. Essentially the rappeler would have zero rope weighted below them.
Hello, challenge: can you think about any use for a soft shackle in cannoning?
I've seen a lot of the videos about them and never got the chance to use any!
what about footlocking... I'm surprised you rock climbers, cavers and canyoners seem to have never heard of it, sounds like it could save a life
this used to be an OG rope access method in tree work and I find it still comes in handy once in a while
There is a way to rigg a sistem with one rope( or 2 also) , that is releaseble and the rappeler can go in one or double rope or even send 2 persons simultaneously and still be releaseble.
How? I can try to explain:rig a normal single rope realeasable, but the rappel rope has at least twice the rappel length.
Meaning, the end of the rappel rope doubles back and you tye a bouline Yosemite knot close to the anchor. OR use a second rope and with a triple eight knot joining the ropes, the single rope releaseble(that is really short and the end of the rope is close to the anchor) to the second rope(rappel rope). The first version of this sistem has a loop at the end of the rappel rope. Hope I could explain myself enough. But my native language is not English. Better to make a drawing
Yooo
Double roping is done by a lot of amateur canyoneers but is really not appropriate, efficient, or safe. There are a million better ways than double roping. In order for a system to be safe it has to have contingency. Like Brent mentioned it will take you ages to get through a canyon if your double roping that's why nobody does it.
This is like telling you how a engine runs then have them rebuild the engine. Just superficial.