[TF2] Why Pyro is Hated
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- Опубліковано 2 кві 2021
- Some guy takes a break from lore and apparently goes into politics, advocating for Pyro rights or for them to be outlawed or something.
I forgot to mention some other points during this video, obviously I'm referring to a much more casual setting of TF2 and not Comp or MvM.
In Comp Pyro plays a more supportive role, protecting the Medic... even though he's extremely situational and pretty inferior at that task.
I know in MvM the Gas Passer is "Extremely broken" and "OP" even though it was nerfed into the ground and a demo with stickybombs is still objectively better for medics and results in a higher damage output.
Music Used;
TF2 - Main Theme
TF2 - Playing with Danger
TF2- It Hates Me So
TF2 - Dreams of Cruelty
TF2 - A Little Heart to Heart
Super Mario Bros 2 - Character Select
Mother 3 - As You Wish
Cong-rats to anyone who can figure out what the next video will be since it is teased sparingly throughout the video... also yeah apparently I'm sticking to TF2 content for X amount of time, sorry for those interested in fallout - Ігри
![[TF2] Why Dustbowl is Hated](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/J2dIRImsUmg/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Why Dustbowl is Hated](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Why Demo is Hated](/img/n.gif)
Hello there, Pyro main here. This video... is right. In quite a few situations, including the ones listed in the video, Pyro is weaker or does not have a defined use case like the majority of other classes (Sniper to Spy). However, the way that pyro has been changed over the years has... made him into something that can be seen as a unique role: A supportive, team-oriented Swiss Army knife. Look at Pyro’s statistics, weapons, and overall role for a second. Pyro has the 3rd larger health pool, being the same as Demos, he has a fairly moderate move speed, similar to Engie but maybe a bit slower, and his stock kit... well let’s just say it does leave a lot to be desired, like you said. He was a by product of choke point centered maps giving an effective role, but with the games evolution, he was changed with many significant items that are used to make him fit that Army Knife description I gave. Team Wiping? Phlog. Burst Damage? Flare Gun. Scouting and Quick Deployment? Powerjack. Flanking? Detonator, Jetpack, Backburner. Area Denial and “Last Line of Defense”? Airblast, Degreaser, Stock, Homewrecker. Pyro really does fit into these roles with his many weapons, but, they all have a common link: Pyro either needs or would benefit from his team by doing this. Phlog Crits are powerful, but combining that with stock Uber ends games. Zoning and defense can be done, but with an Engie’s dispenser or sentry to be there, Pyro can keep an area locked down unless under a full team assault. Scouting and Burst damage make him good in one on one, but with a scout or soldier to be there with him, he can act as the backbone for their attacks. There is the key word. Backbone. Pyro can act as the backbone for his team and reinforce what they do so that games can be won. I find this role quite gratifying, and awesome to do in TF2, but hey, there are many gripes to have against this. Low skillfloor, undefined roles, and other smaller issues do make pyro seem redundant, but by looking at things from different perspectives, there are many things we can see that we’re hard to see before. Thank you for your time, thank you for reading, and Spaceguy, thank you for maki great content, as always. Have a wonderful day.
damm this is have so many words
@@champyparraguirre4650 ...what if I told you I typed this on mobile?
@@strutr1250 you madman
Sometimes i think people just have in mind that pyros are the worst thing, and that makes me play less with him. It makes me sad (っ˘̩╭╮˘̩)っ
@@senero3121 Eh, it sucks, but as long as you have fun playing him, then go ahead, set the world on fire. Also, if people act like that towards you, just know they may have a bit too much sodium chloride in their system.
Like someone once said: "Pyro is good at denying Uber, he's also very good at dying while doing so."
Basically a Sacrifice
Yea it’s to save the team
A noble sacrifice I am willing to take... for my Engies.
Unless you yourself are ubered and can stuff them in spawn.
Pyros will Die...ALOT.
Its an occupational Hazard
7:19 "the sheer power of the stock flare gun is enough to kill 4 of the 9 classes in two shots"
yes, the same applies to most weapons, it's the cool part of tf2 Mr Instakill
Yea I felt like the flare gun (beside scorch) and combo section was more...of a rant
B-but w+m1!
@@illseeyaonthedarksideofthemoon tbh i hate w+m1 because I already have bad aim, not being able to see jack shit while being dealt damage isn't helping it
Not to mention how hard it can be to follow up on fire damage with a shot from the flare gun
It is amusing how practically everything he said about the flare gun applies to the grenade launcher (except Pyro has it as a secondary, so Demo can only get a sticky or a shield... nevermind, they're not bad)
Soldier does 100 damage for rocketing the ground next to you and none bats an eye. Pyro does 90 damage for comboing you with an airblast and the flare gun and everyone loses their mind.
Exactly
SkiLlZ
rocket spam takes skilil!!1!1!1!1!1
SOCIETY.
Pretty much. It's a shame to because a puff and sting combo is way harder to pull off than something like using splash damage. Both classes take skill, but people hate pyro and main soldier so people are more likely going to scream at pyro players, even if both classes take skill to deal massive damage.
1:30
*Laughs in 1200 crit kills with Kukri*
*Laughs in 150 instant damage*
*Laughs in jarate bushwacka*
Sniper arguably has his own issues. the core idea of what his class is *supposed* to be, however, is still very coherent.
Ahem, airblast.
@@egas4679 Spy has airblast? New update confirmed
@@draforgg5594 yup and guess what, it's actually functional!
**Laughs in airblast fucking up all three of those**
Woah, a sniper complaining about guaranteed crits? Kinda hypocritical ngl
not really, crits are the whole gimmick of sniper anyway
but i gotta agree sniper is too powerful right now
A sniper main complaining about the Scorch Shot? Never coulda seen that coming.
Ngl tho, trying to hit someone's head is harder than spam that projectile which flew faster than the direct hit is alot harder
@@alexanderstilianov everyone hates the scorch shot, even pyro mains. I'd disagree with the dude's criticisms of the detonator considering that in order to make use of it you'd have to both be good at aiming flares and timing the detonation, but the scorch shot is one of the most rewarding weapons for doing so little on the pyro's end
sniper: oh boy i will click a single fucking button while standing still whoa i just dealt 450 damage whacky!!
"Sniper struggles at close range"
Quickscopes with Jarate+Bushwacka combo: "Well yes but actually no"
Sniper living with free crits on his melee and Sniper and the video goes:"hurr reliable crits suck" what can we expect from a Sniper main
@@superbeta1716 particularly when he says who needs ambush tactics when one of the weapons that gives crits is literally only able to do so when shooting the back
As a pyro main, I always feel like the hate is mostly driven by how effective a pyro is at his jack of all trade, master of non approach. He makes Spies job harder when buddied with an engineer and the homewrecker, he can reflect projectiles, set enemies of fire from a distance with his many flare guns, and can basically push back an entire enemy advance at the risk of his own life with either a surprise assault from out of nowhere or phlog W+M1 rush. The pyro is basically that class that tell the enemy not to get complacent because he can ruin their day if he get's close enough or sit still long enough for a flare to land.
100% agree
Agree, as a medic/spy main who plays pyro every so often. The medic is quite close to pyro in terms gameplay. It is w M1. Before you go but medic is unable to fight and is a massive af magnet for the enemy. You have the WHOLE TEAM your whole team to help you. Fun fact, people don’t like medics dead. While yes in casual people don’t risk there life for medic. But medics are SURROUNDED BY A PEOPLE. Plus the skill cap for pyro is very high, aiming flare, and reflecting EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMM PROJECTILE. In essence low skill floor high skill cap with a god awful skill curve. The whole essence of w M1 works for almost every class. The only real good thing about pyro is airblast, you know the thing that requires some of the highest skill in the game. Uber denial, ok try to push that medic combo while trying not die by that other dude and the WHOLE GOD DAMM TEAM. And guess what your medic won’t help you cause medic LIFE IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT. He isn’t going go into a suicidal run, and even if he has Uber giving it to heavy demo or mr America is WAY BETTER. Unless plog, but it is the plog what you do expect.
So you think we are jealous? (Judging form the first few sentences)
As a sniper main I despise them for flare spam. Its always satisfying to headshot them as they run back and forth on 2fort battlements spamming flares. I don't feel bad taunting them.
They can bully with airblast. They earn kills standing by water with the annihilator. Getting kills they don't deserve. Just tap m1,lite them on fire and switch to the flare gun for a free critical hit, another kill he doesn't deserve. Airblast you on cliffs (wow pyro just takes so much skill doesn't he?)
I can go on and on. If he got nerfed and all his crit weapons were reworked I'd be happy.
@@keybladegames_real The irony. I usually start SC spamming snipers after they start getting overly oppressive. Mind you, usually that just forces out the Darwin's Danger Shield and the SC doesn't really do anything after that.
Pyro needs a rework, Sniper needs a nerf, Heavy needs anything.
make pyro a better support class idk how and idc how nerf snipers rechambering time and ammo reserves and make it so scoping in isnt instant and takes like a half a second like in other games that guns with snipers like apex, warzone idk and give heavy a nuke
@@jakman8515 tf2 Maps are much smaller than in Battle royale games
Holding out hope for Combo Pyro to once again be the meta 🙏
Combo pyro is pretty good and has very high skill cap. Pyros utilities are also very handy. I don't really thing what could be changed about the pyro. Scorch shot needs a rework, it shouldn't be as spamable
As a Pyro main, I approve of this message
"sniper struggles at short range"
I have doubts
Bush
Wack
Ive been quickscope instakilled at 3 cm so many times I became a part of the nerf sniper movement.
@@nocow4167 move better
@@nocow4167 move like a spy
@@matyaskrzok1728
Ah yes, the classic argument of "Don't like getting hit? Just don't get hit."
A sniper main complaining about the fact that a class can do a lot of damage in 2 shots and get guaranteed crits. Ironic
Yep
Extremely
welp , aiming flareguns is just as easy as aiming with a crusader's crossbow or huntsman ,most of pyro's weapons are too forgiving , even if a pyro dies engaging a fight the afterburn can still get you
@@snoot6629 just get a clean 2 shotgun shot
Except one of them has to actually aim
if you die to the sharpened volcano fragment, it's kinda your own fault
Guess how entitled people are to refuse that death and call the pyro noob
I feel bad for Pyros - as a Medic, I tend to latch onto them more often than the usual classes not because I pity them, but because they end up being genuinely good Medic buddies. Being stuck in a weird limbo of not having a defined role and getting shat all over for trying to do one thing is intensely relatable and I feel most Pyros just own that, so it's nice to walk with them into battle as they spew flames everywhere and not give a fuck and melt everything.
Their support-lite abilities are really understated too. Airblast is fantastic for when enemies get too close to us, reflecting projectiles, putting me out when my dumb ass gets set on fire. I enjoy the symbiotic relationship the two classes have with one another where we both benefit each other in tangible ways. I love Soldiers and Demos for their godlike ability to delete anything, but I can't rely on them as much as a Pyro who will run with you to safety instead of rocket jumping/sticky jumping away.
Pyros get crapped on way too much for trying to figure out what they need to do among all of the classes who have defined roles, but I think they're just awesome.
As a pyro main, I respect you
As a Pyro, this warms my already burning heart. I wish you the very best Pyro buddies in all your games.
I love playing pyro as a loyal guard dog for the more important classes like med, engie and heavy.
as a representative of moderately skilled pyro mains, when we see a medic on our team, we value their life over all else.
Funny, you described a situation where we were pushing the cart and were having trouble reaching the end due to a major engie and heavy and sniper camp. I chatted to our medic with a full uber and told him to get on me and my backburner. We ran in and destroyed literally everything together. Anyone that tried to retreat was mini-critted. Red didn't have enough time to leave their spawns to recuperate as my team pushed up and the medic stuck with me the whole time. Our team went nuts after winning.
This feels more like ranting then anything.
Because it (mostly) is
yesh
Oh no, angry Pyro main who can't take constructive criticism of the class because they are bad at the game
@@royalgarcia2050 perhaps or perhaps not, maybe no one will ever know?
@ARTHUR VICENTE CUBAS DE AZEVEDO What do you mean by never touched the game before?
Pyro is not about killing or assisting kills (which you're too focused on), pyro is about buying time. Easily applicable damage over time makes enemies retire to heal or to get rid of the fire because it hurts their focus, paired with his ability to defend himself with higher than average health and deflection capabilities, pyro is the perfect class for making sure the enemy team is kept busy, overwhelmed, using up health resources and anywhere but the frontline. This is why afterburn exists and is balanced. The fact that he is not good at killing makes him a pretty discredited class (including scorewise), but if you ignore that he is very good at objective-oriented tasks such as defending difficult pushes and area denial. A lot of people just play him the wrong way (too killing-oriented) because they want kills and so they fail to see his use. Pyro should use guerrila warfare tactics and his unique afterburn ability to give the rest of his team an easier time dealing damage unbothered.
Very nice analysis! A good Pyro can be instrumental in delaying/stopping ubers, payload caps, and explosives spammers - people give em too much shit
i think sniper is the most problematic class at the moment, but pyro has WAY more problems, just to a lesser severity. if i could i would rework him entirely, but with the update schedule now, it doesn't look feasible.
>Sniper main
>Complains about guaranteed crits
Huge difference between crits you need to aim for and crits you need to spam scorch shot for
I feel like it is more of a low skill floor than it is a low skill ceiling.
The sad part about pyro to me, is that most of the cool high skill ceiling stuff that is fun to do and learn is usually outclassed by the more low skill ceiling playstyles pyro has.
RIP combo pyro supremacy
May you rise again one day
@@Pie_The_Man I mean I guess that is fair. Also, soloing a full health heavy is fairly nice with quick switching.
@@Pie_The_Man 90 damage flare still gives me more dopamine than direct pipes
Yeah, it's easy to play, hard to master, look at other classes like soldier, you can spam rockets and get kills, or you. Can learn how to bomb, garden, and other things, pyro can learn how to combo, flare jump, and other things
That's crazy but 1 day it took just to learn that. The point I'm getting here is that he's not hard to master. Just play him for a week and u will be a god. Not like spy with he trickstabs or soldier rocket jumping.
@@pengu0alt709 w+m1 generally will not make any pyro a "god", w+m1 is actually... pretty situational. In most cases, running at the enemy team generally equals a pyro's death more than anything else.
@@Pie_The_Man I'm not saying that they will turn into God, I'm just saying that I didn't take skill to do that
Wow a pyro main saying that pyro is harder to master than soldier
Soldier can learn rocket jumping,air strafing while rocket jumping,air shots,have actual weapon variety
there is a reason he's more played than pyro tho
Idk pyro can stop a uber
Give demoknight the finger
And make spy fear
He kinda sucks at attack but is something to fear on defense
Also when with a engi the nest becomes exponentially harder to take out
A good pyro who nows how to air blast can make a demo cry
The worst fight for a pyro is the big Russian man but with degreaser and panic attack he can shred a heavy
And faring a sniper is a enough to take him out of the fight long enough for a scout to rush in but giving up a shotgun is a big pill to swallow because other pyros are a nightmare if you don't have one
I honestly I think pyros flame damage should be lowered speed lowered but his health upped and afterburn upped pyro is the best bodyguard and slower speed would mean it's harder to dodge and wm1 making pyros main tool his airblast which would make his flare gun the best way to finish off escaping targets
If said changes are applied airblast should cost 10 ammo
@@jimbomclimbo7467 no, stripping this class grom mobility would make it utterly useless
lemme dual wield a flame thrower and a shotgun real quick
I can tell you're a salty Demo main, because you bitch about how he counters Demo rather than discuss him beating Soldier or Spy. (Also, it's hard to get in range with a flamethrower and shotgun when the heavy has the range advantage, especially with the Natasha; you have to out-flank him and somehow hope you win.)
@@btf_flotsam478 as a scout main no I am not salty about pyro vs demo
The biggest issue with pyro has always been damage consistency. His base DPS with the flamethrower is 173, which effectively means he can kill everything weaker than a demoman/other pyro in under a second. The issue is, there has only ever been ONE period in the time tf2 has been around where he has been able to consistently achieve his base max DPS, and that was between Jungle Inferno and Blue Moon. And I don't think anyone wants to go back to seizure city. Pre JI, pyro could never achieve max DPS because his flames were connection based, and also very very random. Post Blue Moon, the rampup they added to get rid of the seizure city issue is simply broken. You can never consistently achieve max DPS with the current flamethrower even if you're an aimbot, it's not possible under any realistic gameplay scenario.
The Dragon's Fury was an amazing solution to pyro's damage deficit. It, conceptually, allows pyro to very effectively hold his own against other combat classes like demo, soldier, and scout. He even gets the benefit of corner peeking which helps immensely against heavies and sentries in some scenarios. And, theoretically, it requires a higher degree of aim skill to offset this damage boost. The issue was that the fireball on launch was WAY TOO BIG. Bigger than Scout's collision hull. They tried to rectify this in blue moon by reducing the fireball size, but they severely overnerfed the weapon by making it so that you only deal full damage if you hit the enemy with the absolute center point of the projectile. The dragon's fury is significantly more effort than it's worth to use because of this. And not to mention its airblast mechanics that were designed by an insane person. The airblast and primary fire should not share a cooldown. Airblasting should NOT disable your primary weapon for an entire second. Having a slower airblast is one thing, having an airblast that takes your main damage tool out of the fight for a whole second is an entirely different game.
And let's just not mention how the fireball will be completely nullified by any projectile or dynamic object in the game if it touches them. A DF pyro literally cannot damage a medic shooting syringes at him. And also the fact that the fireball lags peoples games out.
The dragon's fury is so fun to use and it really does suck when you hit someone 3 fucking times and every single one of them does 25 damage. I do think the original projectile was a bit too much, but they absolutely nerfed it into the ground and it's basically unusable unless you're aimbotting.
The 4 damage per tick maybe the result so I think brought it down to 3 damage per tick may not be sound game changing but thrust me it will work
A really good idea to buff it would be to give him a bigger or strong airblast to counter that detremental cooldown, would make it better against uber pushes or to deflect more stuff, but he would still be weak in 1vs1 against a soldier as he can just spam enough rockets in time
@The Guy You Knew As Mark Omega Pyro is weak even if you play him the way he is intended to be played. Every class in the game can out DPS a pyro at point blank, even if the pyro starts shooting first. Even medic with the blutsauger can out DPS the flamethrower.
Also I don't think you understand what I mean when I talk about his damage being inconsistent. Pyro's primary weapon is literally broken. It does not work the way it is intended to. It is completely impossible to achieve his max DPS under any realistic gameplay situation.
My comment wasn't about the way pyro is played, it was about the fact THAT HIS PRIMARY METHOD OF DEALING DAMAGE DOES NOT FUNCTION PROPERLY AND NEEDS TO BE FIXED OR REWORKED.
@The Guy You Knew As Mark Omega That doesn't excuse pyro's primary source of damage output being mechanically broken.
Pyro can't achieve anything meaningful when his primary weapon does not fucking work the way it was intended to.
And even if his flamethrower worked properly, he still wouldn't be very good at doing what you're describing. Demo absolutely dominates that role.
They could have just made the gaspasser the alt fire of the dragon's fury since its a burst fire flamethrower that racks up damage quick and airblast on that thing is practically useless anyway.
@Wattle The gas passer has a very narrow niche in that it applies full afterburn and can be triggered by a reflected rocket. Reflecting rockets is also probably the best way to charge it up if you're consistent with them.
@Wattle Can't say I see too many shotgun Pyros around tbh, usually they go with a flare gun. I respect it though, the shotguns in this game are great
good idea, the gasspasser sucks in normal tf2, good in mvm though, but yeah an alt fire that does that would have been really good.
thats pretty close to the grease gun concept jerma actually suggested in a video, and i think it'd be pretty useful to combo with. if it sets the enemy on fire, combo with shotgun. if it deals more afterburn, combo with a flare gun. if it minicrits on dealing fire damage, pair with the manmelter so you get an actual damage bonus from burning players. everyone wins.
Especially since the original an inspiration for the ga passer was a flamethrower that left gas trails
You know it’s almost as if this weapon was designed with a shotgun in mind not a weapon that already does fire damage and a basically useless combat oriented melee because the flamethrowers is better at point blank range
I think you confuse skill ceiling and skill floor. his low skill floor, or the minimum skill required to play him, is what makes people rage. the only people who should be upset about pyros low skill ceiling are pyro mains.
I also think that if valve should double down on one of pyros strengths, it should be his ability to engage in successive or drawn out fights. his on demand sustainable dps and above average tankyness/movement mean he's notably less limited in his ability to engage whenever and however long he wants. however he's still limited by his lack of range to an extent that usually makes this advantage irrelevant. they should decrease flame particle size and make his flames not come out faster if he's running forward, but buff his range, then m1 isn't as much of a mandatory strat and pyro needs some skill to lead and track at medium range, where he can better use his hp pool and speed to evade enemy fire.
in my opinion, valve should look at how pyro is being used as a combo/burst damage class and expand/improve on those ideas
@@SammyK-jt3vv its hard to imagine pyros burst damage making him viable when it has to directly compete with weapons that can 2 shot most classes in 2 seconds like the scattergun, grenade launcher, and the sniper rifle. personally I'm much more likely to pick pyro for his survivability and power class matchups than his below average burst damage.
I personally feel that they could make his flamethrower have a bit longer range but keep him as is. Also, give him back the damage buffs in Jungle Inferno. Flamethrowers have a pretty freaking good range IRL, at this point I think that they could implement it.
1. Back when they made the Team Fortress mod for Quake. Pyro was suppose to be a class for people that have poor internet connection. And apparently kept him like this in every TF game.
2. Pyro recieved Airblast in TF2 because Demoman and Soldier could stomp Pyro with ease, so he needed something. Reason why they gave him Airblast too counter projectile classes.
too bad when i get more than 100 ping pyro's flames are too delayed to work
Also huntsman arrows but you need to be extremely lucky for it to work or else you will die
@@Rinne_Z_rank they dont call it the lucksman for nothing
I have poor internet connection and play pyro fairly effectively
10:21 Lamp Oil, Rope, BOMBS!
I missed that. Thanks!
Virgin sniper main VS the Chad Pyro main
Feel like I'm late to the party giving my take on this video, but eh, let's just jump into this.
I, personally love the Pyro class. I seem to be a fan of weapons that are oriented towards sustainable fire (in this case literal fire), which explains why I also enjoy playing Heavy, but Pyro is different. I believe the best way to describe the way I play Pyro is what I affectionately call "helpful serial killer". The way you help everyone on your team by mutilating your enemies was very exciting and fun to play for me. So I completely agree with what your idea that Pyro should be a more aggressive support, but I also believe there are things that should be remembered about when implementing this. I've sort of come to this reflection when I asked myself "what is Pyros defining trait? I sadly thought nothing at first, thinking every other class does it more effectively than him, when it hit me. That is the point. A Pyros performance is dependent on the enemy players performance. Pyro in my opinion works as a punishing support class. He helps his team by exploiting flaws in the enemy team, or thats what the purpose of it was supposed to be at the very least. Even his tactic in the beginning of the games life cycle by being a flank class was to test the opponents situational awareness, but since players experience in alertness/awareness of their surroundings improved as years went on, the tactic became less effective. That would also explain why Pyro is very weak compared to the other classes, because once players are able to get the hang of the Pyros methods for countering them, the Pyro becomes less effective in combat against them. Spy is an exception obviously because his cloak makes it hard to find a counter to the Pyro since he is pretty much immobile while cloaked and set on fire (but hey gun spy is a lot more effective than most people think).
A Pyro is also good in keeping an enemy players hubris in check. Think about it. There is this overconfident Scout main constantly going to your teams backline and taking picks without any repercussions, and he is about to drop your medic again when, boom. He gets a bunch of flames shoved in his face, most likely gets throw into the air from the Pyros airblast, and dies miserably. Then he types the classic "w+m1 noob" jab. THIS is where I believe (in my opinion) the stigma of Pyro comes from the most. From overconfident players who went a little farther than they should've, and they get punished by the most "brain dead" tactic in the game. In conclusion Pyro I think is most effective right now in exploiting the weaknesses in his enemies, and punishing players that overstep their bounds.
This brings me to my conclusion: Pyro is most effective in a playstyle I would call a "punish support class". He helps his team by finding and punishing flaws in an enemy team, whether it be flaws in their playstyle, experience, hubris, etc.
That is my take, and if anyone actually read all of this I cannot thank you enough for listening to my madness. Good day/night to whoever the reader may be!
yems
"Its not the prospect fault, its yours"
Said by the class that has an item that completely invalidates pyros weapons
9:28 I'm just going to discuss these... The flare gun isn't a worthwhile combo tool anymore due to the degreaser nerf. The axtinguisher requires you to get a melee hit on someone who can usually deal 100 damage to you at close range (scout, solly, demo) and also is too slow to get that damage out due to the degreaser nerf. No one uses the man melter. The neon inhalator is a meme weapon due to it managing to be even more unreliable than the axtinguisher. The dragon's fury DOES NOT GRANT CRITS. Good luck getting a mini crit with the reserve shooter as pyro. The scorch shot has many problems. The detonator is a long range spam tool and mobility tool so fair point I guess but it has a fair trade off of not having good close range damage. The phlog just doesn't have much of a skill ceiling. The backburner relies on the class who doesn't have the speed of scout or tools of spy to get behind the enemy, but I do think it's a well designed and balanced weapon compared to others.
After this you give an analogy that pyro is sort of just a last minute class. I disagree, sniper really feels more that he just doesn't fit into the game. He's the only long range class with a basically unavoidable instakill for punishment of him seeing you and unlike basically all the other classes there's not really anything to learn to him besides aiming better. It's problematic that someone who knows nothing about TF2 yet for example is a very good CSGO player can just go into TF2 and be a ridiculously good sniper without needing to actually improve or learn anything. Sniper's just left as this class that doesn't really take any TF2 specific skills while simultaneously not fitting in with the rest of the classes.
I take issue with you conflating the scorch shot and the detonator. The detonator fills a completely different role. Your complaint about the detonator rewarding you with free fire damage from far away without having to aim isn’t exactly true. If it hits something it won’t explode, you have to make it explode manually, carefully timing it for maximum effect. This, combined with the extra mobility you gain from flare jumping, makes the detonator a weapon that raises the skill ceiling for pyro, serving as both a source of ranged harassment, and an excellent mobility tool in the hands of a skilled player.
This is in contrast to the scorch shot which is just annoying to play against. Unlike the detonator, it does knock back as well as exploding on impact. It will even explode if you hit players as well, dealing even more extra damage to the knocked back player, and any teammates standing around him. It also doesn’t offer nearly as many mobility options as the detonator. The scorch shot is a crutch for bad players, and is made redundant with the existence of the detonator.
You also later complain that the detonator rewards you with free mini crits on burning players, but what you fail to mention is that it does only 30 damage on a mini crit.
In fact, with a few notable exceptions like the scorch shot and phlog, most of the weapons you show in this section either offer a situational bonus that rarely occurs and as such doesn’t make that big of a difference in actual gameplay (eg; the Mann melter, the neon annihilator, the reserve shooter,) or actually raise the skill ceiling of pyro and offer a more interesting variety of play styles (eg; the detonator, stock flare gun, axtinguisher, dragon’s fury.)
Your points about pyro lacking supportive capabilities are absolutely baffling to me. Pyro is already a strong support class. He’s incredibly strong playing around engineers and medics, as he’s probably the best class for catching out spies with the flamethrower. Not only that, but his airblast along with the homewrecker’s ability to destroy sappers makes him incredibly useful for helping to protecf an engineer’s buildings. I agree with your points about the gas passer being useless, but pyro already has strong support capabilities without it.
I personally think a lot of the arguments you make in this video are flawed and possibly arise from a lack of experience playing Pyro. I hope I’m able to offer you a different perspective, and possibly change your mind on some of these points.
the main difference between the flare guns are that they reward different skills you have (or punish different skills your opponents don't have i guess)
scorch shot rewards good positioning (or punishes bad positioning on your enemies part)
the detonator rewards good timing,
the flare gun rewards good aim. (technically all three of them do but you get the point)
the scorch shot works best when either you have the high ground on your enemies, when your enemies are grouped up pointlessly our when your enemies are walking around with their backs against a wall like it's a prison shower.
in any other scenario you have to hit your enemies directly to accomplish anything.
if this sounds infuriating to you then stop complaining about pyro and start shitting on soldier instead, who needs even less skill to get the high ground position than pyro AND does more splash damage.
the detonator has other utilities, for example the scorch shot sucks at fighting enemies who have the high ground on you, the scorch shot is useless in this situation because it needs to hit something to work, the detonator doesn't so you can arch the detonator over a high ground and detonate it slightly above the enemy, where the scorch shot would just keep going until it hits like a wall or something.
the flare gun rewards you with crits for having good aim twice, which is double the amount of skill you need to do the same (or perhaps even more damage idk it has been a while since i used it) with the direct hit, so again stop shitting on pyros, they're not the problem.
Silence pyro main
1:30 struggles at close range
*laughs in bushwacka and random crits)*
pyro is more of a support class than anything, I think at this point in the game valve wants him to be someone who picks off the nascence's bothering your team and to be your teams backup but with the existence of the "oh my fukin god, why valve" weapons they gave him, I'm pretty sure he's meant to be a class that's supposed to help but reck havoc when he needs or wants to. that is if he can actually use his weapons effectively.
The issue with increasing the Flamethrower damage is that it's been done and people complained. When Jungle Inferno dropped and actually made Pyro's flamethrower work it did a shit tonne of damage. No damage numbers were changed outside of afterburn, they just made the flame particles consistent. People really complained that Pyro was doing way too much damage from W+M1ing people down and so Valve gave the Flamethrower a ramp up taking 2 seconds to reach the damage it did after Jungle Inferno in the Blue Moon update, halving the initial damage in the process. In that time Pyro can be two shot by a Soldier and Demo which can survive the flamethrower ramp up.
I've heard some weird stuff about how you can never achieve max ramp up because the initial spawn of the flame particles count as missing the target.
Also wait wouldn't that give him comparable dps to the two other "attack" classes?
But actually he can't be shot by a demo or soldier in that time because demo has no way of damaging him realistically and soldier only has shotgun if he's forgoing the fun-boots
@@airhead7379 Demo has stickes and i'm pretty sure that a Pyro can't reflect stickes and also pipes fire faster than rockets and even airblast.
@@nicardoholland3621 pyro can reflect stickies
everyone says that he excels at fighting spies, but man, if you can aim with the stock revolver you'll see even that ain't really true
5 shots straight on, and fireboy is dead fore he can even touch you.
other than that, pretty great vid on pyros state of "who the fuck am I what do I do please help"
It's just that in most scenarios, a spy will be invis or disguised and bump into a Pyro resulting in the reverse to happen.
Spy indirectly has to go towards Pyro which obviously isn't ideal, when it's the reverse however and the Spy doesn't have to worry about disguise or invis because the entire enemy team won't pick him off, it's a tad bit more of a fair match-up.
Even in the background for one segment you can see me get gunned down by a Spy because I pushed and went closer to the enemy and not the reverse.
@@SpaceGuyOnline that's fair, most spies you see are the typical permacloak, always disguised guys. personally don't play like that much, I've found that spy is way more effective if you actually help your damn team most of the time, great for initiating fights with advantage for your team, but from the cloakie mindset, yeah, kinda fuckin sucks if there's a pyro in the same map as you
*laughs in flares*
Or you get flared to death or get filled with lead from the shotgun. It's not that easy to run away from a pyro alive
you seem to forget that he can stunlock you with the scorched shit, and then wm1 you. Ive never died to a spy as pyro
for anyone who complains about w+m1, almost every single class can do that in a better aspect than pyro
"sniper strugels at short range" *gets quockscoped
His CrItS also welcome u to Mr reaper
Even a god pyro with a flare gun is stuck at close range
People forgot the word "Distance" and "Keep moving"
What flare gun...and aiming
Because yes a pyro can 2 shot a light class...so can demo soilder and to a degree battle engi and scout who just need to aim too but when it's pyro... people get angry at him for that
I'm a pyro main and I think it just that when you were writing this you didn't have the right outlook on the pyro
He isnt only supposed to be a high damage flank class anymore. Yes he can be with unlocks such as the dragons fury, flare gun, and powerjack. But in his current state stock gives you a jack of all trades and hard counters spy and soft counters soldier and Demo. With some unlocks you can be a combo pyro, a pybro, a defencesive person who will hold for as long as you can or just push in as an offensive burst damage powerhouse. Pyro isnt just 1 thing he is as I quote from another comment "a Swiss army knife jack of all trades but master at none" except spies. Oh and please stop bashing the pyro for a higher skill floor, he has a moderately high skill ceiling and takes skill. But sometimes you just have to equip the phlog and go ham with your pocket medic.
Honestly never really understood the hate pyro gets expect w+m1 of course
The w+m1 argument is unreasonable and stupid. *Every single class,* besides Spy, can counter it so goddamn easily. Just stop whining.
Honestly I think its because of how easy it is to secure a kill on someone and Im pretty sure thats what wm1 was meant to mean: When a Pyro holds W key and Mouse 1 and charging into more than 4 players or into a territory with no incentive just to kill someone and eventually succeeding.
It makes more sense to be mad about because the Pyro stepped out of his territory (with no incentive I mind you, none of his team was pushing, the enemies medic or sniper wasn't down, nothing) and into your territory and killed you even though if you he would've done that with another class it would of been less likely you would've died
I only w+m1 when the enemy isn’t paying attention so I make them focus me and get my team to finish them
I personally don't understand the wm1 hate, "fuck you pyro for using your primary weapon whilst walking forwards!" How strange that no one complains about a m1 heavy walking forwards? I wonder if there's some sort of correlation between weapons that fire continuously and holding down m1 to fire continuously?
@@jeremywang5754its because heavy has to sacrifice being an easy shot when hes revved up, and considering how big heavy is a revved up "w+m1" heavy is much more easier to counter than a "w+m1" pyro
The thing is what makes pyro irritating is thwt his full of bugs. But if u have a 1v1 counter with a pyro I can guarantee u that what any class you pick your gonna die to a gibus pyro or that one pyro with some skills.
laughs in mini gun,scatter gun, shotgun and the ability to walk backwards half the time
@@eggcelentrat4005 heavies get fucked by pyros that know how to move. Scout? Puff and Sting. Walking backwards? Shotgun or flare gun. Same to someone else using a shotty unless they're also a pyro, in which case... Same class duels are always weird.
@@vyor8837 man any person with just ok tracking can kill a pyro I'm a second with a mini gun and the scatter gun 2 taps pyros almost instantly but if the scouts predictable you can flare punch them easy
@@eggcelentrat4005 if you're too close, heavies really struggle to strack.
full of BUGS?!??!??!?!?!
I think it would be cool if they added a flamethrower that could leave fire on surfaces. Basically you could spray the ground with fire and block off enemies with a wall of flames for area denial and combination traps with allies such as blocking escape routes.
that would be fucking stupid!
So basically spawn fire walls all over the other team spawn room if a single pyro just go flank and get behind? Not to mention how much that'd eat at the game processing for people computer, since hell even you can lag from the spawn Vision outlines. So imagine 3 pyros just filling up the entire area with fire. Imagine that rendering
That's literally what the gas passer was supposed to do, but instead of making it a molotov with extra steps, they just half assed it instead.
As Fish on a Stick suggests that the reason the phlog is so overpowered is because of how overpowered the Scorch Shot is because most phlog pyros tend to abuse the scorch shot because it’s the only reliable way to get fire damage without dying by trying to w+m1. So the best way to make the phlog not as overwhelming is to nerf the SCORCH SHOT, not the phlog.
How about just buff the damn phlog and not nerf another gun.
The phlog depends on the secondary you use with it
I disagree with this video on so many levels. It's really just a rant with minimal editing.
Yep he sounds like someone who hate pyro, probably because he isn't good with this class but get killed by rushing pyro all the times.
It's funny that he present the class as weak and almost useless but at the same time complain about wm1 pyro killing him with ease.
Technically all classes are w+m1
laughs in trolldier
stickytrap moment
Demoman - m2m1m1m1m1m1m1m1Qwm1m1m1Rm1m1Qm2m1m1m1
Not sniper. Sniper is a+d+M1
Though, also as well as scout since he's wasd+space×2+M1.
Everyone addressing Pyro is essentially saying that they're a generalist class without saying he's a generalist. Always just "semi-support"
Pyro's main role isn't dealing with spies, it's spreading chaos. I play Pyro in my own way, if you apply some psychology to the class you can get way different results ;)
It's true that Pyro as a class has it's core flaws, be it w+m1 being brainless and the phlog rewarding even dumber ways of playing. I also never realised how annoying the healing reduction on afterburn can be to Medics saving themselves. Sorry to all Medics out there for that stuff :/
But heck yeah I just love to spread chaos in a calculated way and see the enemy's patience, moral and sometimes even their composture widdle away as I (eg) flare snipe the Medic for the third time right before he has uber.
Playing Pyro in a way that is a) fun and engaging to you all the time and b) doesn't annoy the living shit out of others cuz w+?1 and such is a real challenge. But I love this goofy class way too much to ever let go of it ever again and I'll never stop demoralizing the enemy team and making sure that no Spy touches our Medic/s ♡
Being mad at pyro for having after burn,
Is like being mad at water for being wet.
i think that the class that should be hated in this, is the sniper.... by just existing in the map he can make it pretty unfun to play but if pyro kills you its your fault and you should get better at the game to avoid that in the future.
What about demoman spawncamping you with stickies
@@ediodimacaroni oh god how could I forget the horror! actually a Demoman camping at the door is way less worst then a good sniper
@@ediodimacaroni
To be fair, that demo has to either kill everyone or avoid them without getting killed as he makes his way to enemy spawn plus there are many weapons that can deal with him and his stickies
A sniper holding down a chokepoint only has 2 counters, another sniper (to which has to peak and hope he's not shot first) or them not having situational awareness getting killed by flanking scouts or decloaking spies
@Une chaîne comme les autres demoknight is a sub class just like trollieder you can't complain...
@Une chaîne comme les autres alright what do you have in mind my guy :))
1 damage for After Burn is pretty bad my guy lmao. That is 8x less than stock
Pyro was always one of my favorite TF2 classes. Generally speaking, i'm aesthetically attracted to Heavy - because i like big guys with big guns. Tanky giant monsters that don't give a shit about mobility and other stuff are my prefference choice in almost every game i play. Titanfall main? Ogre. Titanfall 2 main? Scorch, who is just ogre with a touch of extra war crimes. DOTA 2? Sven, yadi yada.
Yet in TF2, Pyro ended up becoming my second main, somehow... It's not that i don't play other classes, or play them badly, i just don't enjoy them as much.
Actually i might guess why i like pyro - i have a habit of being a flanking bastard. No matter what game or how, its just something i do. Scorch from Titanfall 2? Even though he's basically a napalm-dispersing artilery i actually play him like pyro, which is absolute top kek. Giant, 200 tones machine, clanging like a whole assembly factory, SLOWLY flanking and sneaking on some poor bastard only to get into his face and start burning it with flame shield. Basically W+M1 gameplay, but for giant robots.
This habit goes perfectly in sync with pyro's mechanics, which is why ultimately his gameplay model is prefferable for me.
"Yes, hello, i was camping this far dark corner of the map for centuries. Now you die." *earrape flamethrower noises*
One good take I heard on a server was this "the beauty of pyro is there's no wrong way to play him, but also there's no right way to play him"
funny little fact about the powah jack, it only had the health on hit stat and the speed was gained from its set back when set bonuses existed, when those got removed, they added the movement speed buff to the powerjack to make up for it.
"Pyro is only good in dealing with Spy" - here, stop calling Pyro brain dead W+M1 after he killed you. He is weaker than you and you just got outplayed, accept it.
You didn’t come from both sides you just said that pyros op and he needs to more of a support.
Let me ask you this, is it easyer to shoot a rocket or to reflect one?
@UCg2VdgS_sqfjlN04Gr0NQRA what a shortsighted reply.
it is slightly harder but you get a slight buff in the form of mini crits (and surprise factor, since nobody expects the average pyro to hit a reflect)
Is it easier to do a rollout or reflect a rocket?
The best "really good with no downsides" example is the scorch shot.
Good video as always, but I wanted to suggest you something. I won’t mention pyro’s mechanics and his roles, because Scunter fool already explained his and I agree with him. I just wanted to tell you that you should use gameplay on different maps as a background footage, I know there were mercenary park, 2fort and dustbowl, but 90% of background footage is just turbine gameplay . Idk, maybe it’s just me. And also, please, add more those little sfm scenes (like the one that described players who hate pyro and those who defend him, or the scene with metaphor of valve making a cake), they are funny and really help the video to feel alive.
Other than that, good video, Spaceguy, keep making your videos!
4:03 wow ... that spy in the background .... cool
As a pyro main, what I notice is that pyro is best played being a punish class. This often overlaps with support tendencies, but he isn't about starting his own momentum, he is about using an enemy's momentum against them.
If you are out of position as a spy, you can be singled out by the pyro, to the point where even a single particle of flame, cheaply spewed, will cut a life short. If a soldier or a demo shoots a reckless rocket, you can punish them, by killing their scout with a well timed airblast. If you uber too early, you can be blasted back and lose three of your eight seconds. If you kritz in front of a pyro who gets his timing right, you might get a red crocket reflected for all your work. A trolldier who jumps at a pyro with the reserve shooter is minicrit for even using his main weapon. A demoknight who charges will be airblasted away with relative ease. These are just a few situations where the pyro is all about punishing bad plays.
Unfortunately, being the punish class has a downside, which is fairly obvious. Pyro exists to capitalise on someone screwing up. So if a player doesn't screw up? Well, the match ups in ideal circumstances include 8/9 with the pyro losing. Pyro might not be one of the most skillful classes in the game, but with everything being out of his control, it is almost serene to play him.
It's certainly taught me to be less salty about the game, as playing pyro is less about his skill, and more about the enemy's lack of it.
The Scorch Shot is a weaker rocket launcher with afterburn and double donk potential added to it. It can knock you back if it actually hits you, and more so when you're already burning... but a well placed rocket can pop you up into the air and be left just as helpless. With the Flare Gun, you get more damage against already burning targets and have no splash damage potential, while with the detonator, you can flare jump much higher, along with getting the choice of when you want to make it explode for that splash damage. The Scorch Shot sacrifices the damage output, the ability to choose when you can inflict splash damage, and the distance you'd get with flare jumping... just for increased knockback on hit? I mentioned the double donk potential, because when it does hit an enemy [or teammate] and not the environment, it'll bounce off them, tumbling in the air for a moment before landing again and doing that splash damage, which if you weren't already on fire for, means you can back off and not take that second hit.
This secondary only really gets the flack for "rewarding those who can't aim" because of afterburn, and that's really the only reason for the complaint, because no one complains when a Soldier sets you on fire with the splash damage from a charged cow mangler 5000 shot, which would do the exact same thing, only slower.
''sniper lacks in close range''
yeah right
why pyro is hated: scorch shot and backburner/flog. that's it
True. (Maybe delite assburner from list, because if you miss a fatass flank it's your problem, not weapon's, but still agree)
no one likes dying to a w-m1 pyro even if it was their fault to die
especially to people who forgot the s key exist
Well If I died to a W+M1 Pyro who flanked me or ambushed me, I tip my hats to them, that surprise sure did give me a heart attack
@@nseven1117 s key makes you go slower allowing the pyro to kill u with fire
@@arad4619 -no im pretty sure you go the same speed as walking fowards- Never mind you move 10% slower while walking backwards. Also in retrospective the saying that backpetaling is the best way to counter a wm1 pyro doesn't make sense because unless you're in a really open map it is unlikely that you will always see the pyro running right at you and you would be far enough away to be out of his range. Most of the time you will turn the corner only to see the Pyro right infront of you in which you can't just backpetal. The best counter to pyro is obviously just killing them first
The w+m1 frace can be used for heavy two
for almost anyone if u add spacebar
Pyro is an area denial class, plain and simple.
"We're gonna be the guys who give credit to both the people that complain about Pyro, and the people that defend him!"
*Proceeds to do nothing but complain about the Pyro with the only defense being, "But he's still easy to kill tho"*
Thanks for taking 13 minutes of my time to whine on the internet.
To be fair, that's about 60 percent of what the internet is for. I don't play TF2, so I don't know nor care one way or the other except as a fire lover.
If nothing else, I'd agree with his last point, regardless of game: If the "low skill," "weak" class killed you at close range, that's probably your own fault.
i love when youtube recommends me good, small youtubers from time to time, also related to the video i see pyro as a reverse soldier, a mediocre jack of all traits, while soldier i feel is a little op because he can fill every class role mostly with his variety arsenal of weapons and little to no downside, pyro tries to mix all up instead of going for one role at the time, soldier has a stupid damage output, good if not the best movement speed thanks to rocket jumping, the second best health in the game and weapons that make him better at this three things, pyro has regular damage, regular movement speed and a regular health, if some weapons gave pyro a lot of those stats but a downside in other stats it could be a good risky class instead of the market gardener in class form, a crit gimmick made class, also as a pseudo engi main i don't dislike pyros but i get why people don't like him since you know, crits aren't fun to fight, sorry if my english sucks since it isn't my first language but i'll love to get better at it, but if this is too much text just good video mate keep it up.
As a engineer main , to all pyros , thanks for protecting my sentry nest from those thirsty spies out there
In TF2 there is a way to find a invisible TF2 spy, it's called spy checking basically be a pyro then spin around the room then watch for a burning sillouet.
Ngl, ones you get good at airblasting and using weapons like flare gun and axetinguisher pyro is just super ez to kill alot of classes.
But maybe thats just me?
That’s… every class when you get good?
My problem with the phlog is that is says "teamwork? Yeah fuck you" you can't extinguish enemies, you can't airblast spam going to engis, you can't push back Uber, you can't do anything aitblasting can do for you while saying "yes now go and w + m1 and your taunting gives you Uber too so you can make less of a mistake when taunting at the wrong time. Imagine the engineer gets a weapon that prevents him from building dispensers and teleports for the team in exchange for a level 4 sentry for 10 seconds. All teamwork and effort a class can put in is essentially removed because "why not?" At least the backburner can still use the support tool of airblast to save himself and others in a pinch while having quite the unique perk of doing more damage from behind as infuriating to some as it may seem. Phlog encourages the most brainless one dimensional play for temporary crits. In which the manmelter at least does something useful with it and reward you for saving teammates even if it's a buggy mess.
Lmao i think im a pyro main but i still extuinguish my teammates like if im fighting someone and see my teammate on fire i would literally risk my life just to extinguish him
@@rice4823 no mean the phlog doesn't HAVE that, it removes one of pyro's core support feature for a gimmicky one time f you to the enemy team.
manmelter
Everyone hates pyro until they're on fire..
As a heavy main myself, I don't get too annoyed by pyros. (since I can easily take him out) The only time I really "hate" pyro is when everyone is being friendly and some pyro comes in a burns everyone, It's annoying.
my hate list in tf2 are:
1.Good snipers
2.Random crits "spec in melee's"
3.And friendly's
i actually like pyros and if i die to them it's my fault but if sniper kills me it wasn't my fault for existing on the map.
I think your W+M1 and afterburn criticisms are fair. However, complaining about pyro crits is something I disagree with. Most crits pyro gets rely on genuine skill (exception phlog and scorch shot, which are their own things) to achieve, and pulling off a successful flare gun direct after lighting an enemy on fire is not much less difficult than a headshot (and at longer ranges is much harder), while dealing less damage. The flare gun is just one example, the Axtinguisher in its current state is also very balanced, the detonator rewards good timing, etc.
I agree with you about valve's... odd choice to focus on aggressive pyro, when they should be supporting the support/defense pyro, which is generally more skillful and useful.
I do agree pyro is in a fairly odd spot, and it feels apart from other classes. However, the number one thing I would say about pyro is that while it has a fairly low skill floor, it has a high skill ceiling, in line with many other classes and much higher than some (such as heavy). It's different and weird but sort of works, and pyro is useful in many situations. Pyro does not do well in sixes largely because they need a large team to act as support for, much like the engineer. Pyro is the beefiest support class in the game, and they are my favorite class to play easily, despite playing plenty of soldier, engineer, and medic in addition.
A few pyro weapons desperately need rebalancing:
-Scorch Shot (nerf needed)
-Gas Passer (please for the love of god just make it start ready to be thrown, and combo with neon annihilator)
-Hot Hand (why does this exist? Give it the soldier whip effect)
-Sharpened Volcano fragment (lol)
-Dragon's Fury (an interesting one that COULD make pyro a good attacking class if the airblast penalty wasn't so limiting)
As is, pyro is a weaker class that is best viewed as a support class who sporadically can flank and attack when an opportunity presents itself. If you play it that way, pyro is a lot of fun. If you try to force the flanking/attacking playstyle on it with anything but the Dragon's Fury, you just die in a braindead way.
Oh sure, when the heavy main presses W + M1 no one complains. But when I W + M1 I get arrested for arson for burning down the homeless shelter
Because heavy takes skill to "strategize" (btw just as pyro)
But still heavy isn't that easy class as people might think.
The whole rocket jumper gas passer thing also happens to the conch and it’s health regen buildup. I believe it happens because the jumper is just the stock rocket launcher with a reskin and no damage.
Afterburn was adjusted so it take more time from a flamethrower directly hitting you to reach the max ten seconds afterburn
If i had to say what pyros intention was, you have to look at the original developers of TF as a quake mod, originally pyro was designed for players with bad connection or framerate problem which is the reason why he has a flamethrower since you can play it even with the worst connection. Later on valve didn't really know what to do with pyro so they labled it as an offensive class which he is somewhat good at but not great.
If i had to say something about the flamethrower, there are things that come to mind when discussing wm1 and why its effective. Pyros flamethrowers can do pretty good damage output but like you said its not as impressive. Although the flamethrower lacks range and isn't that good at dealing damage, the flames themselves are nearly impossible to dodge which makes the pyro one of if not the class that never misses which is the reason why new players pick because pyro has easier time to kill enemies compare to most classes. Couple that with 150 damage per sec and afterburn and pyro does seem to deal pretty high damage without missing and like i said about TFQ, the flamethrower was designed around bad connection.
If there is a reason as to why pyro is the worst class in the game, there are 2 things: Its either that pyro is cheap class to play due to wm1 nature and the fact that he counters most classes effectively if done right or that pyro has an identity crisis because valve or the community can't decide which role pyro is supposed to be. To be frankly honest pyro is an offensive supportive class than anything else since he has some bulk and damage yet he has airblast and some tools to support.
Oh and also about the gas passer. The gas passer was balanced around this way mainly because mad milk and jarate were concidered cheap or overpowered in 6s or highlander due to having a large radius and recharging pretty quickly without skill. Even though afterburn is not the greatest debuff effect, it would have been handled better if it was like mad milk or jarate with a faster cooldown.
Pyro is literal wheelchair class
I think the way Pyro is supposed to function is that he throws himself at large groups of enemies with his low but lasting group fire damage and then, due to said low instant damage output, get overwhelmed easily.
Pyro isn’t meant to be a 1v1 kind of class, he is meant to be the guy sacrificing himself to soften up a large group of enemies, allowing his team to have a much easier job at taking care of them shortly afterwards.
So in a way he is meant to be the first line of defense or the guy charging ahead during an coordinated push.
He is an ambush class, and while he will rarely be the one delivering the finishing blow, he can make all the difference between winning and losing a push scenario.
That’s actually literally how he was designed in TFC, there’s a text box that comes with the game explaining each class and that’s basically what they say for Pyro (watch Shonics video where he reads it). The text box describes Pyro as a a first line of defence who runs at an enemy, most likely dies but lights them on fire, allowing teammates to finish them off.
@@abitofananimator5716 guess i nailed it then xD
The way I see it Pyro is a delay class, he has so much power to push the enemy back like even running in and dying his afterburn will make them run for health
I can tell, he got killed by a flog pyro
I think lazy purple's idea of pyro fits best: the "DONT TOUCH MY BABY" little goober that hangs around his team and helps get them over the edge into success.
Totally agree about that kind of haphazard design thing. When I play other classes, I can feel they were intricately designed and have lots of nuance and depth.
Pyro as a whole feels like a carryover of a bygone, gimmicky era. Different mechanics have been slapped on to him but never fully integrated and he has always lacked a clear role behind denying Spy the chance to play the game. I mean, he’s a half-decent defensive support if you have an engie to turtle around, I guess? To me, he is the only class that feels tacked-on...
The official creation according to Valve about his design was a character relying on hit and run ambush tactics who needs to overtly rely on his team.
This feels like pretty weak reasoning to solidify Pyro's placement. My memory of Team Fortress Classic is hazy but the much larger and open maps made Pyro niche when it did enclose, combine that with grenades which were his more overtly used offensive tool, TF2 lacks grenades and although the maps have shrunk, and the other classes have changed to meet with the new "world."
Pyro certainly hasn't.
Make all flamethrowers function on an air pressure meter. When you first start firing the flames go a bit farther with slightly more damage than they do now, but the longer you hold the trigger down they rapidly get shorter and weaker. You have to stop firing and wait a short time for it to rebuild pressure. The dragons fury works similarly but you have to hold the trigger to build pressure then release to fire like with the doubledonker.
Increases pyros burst damage and encourages ambushing at the same time as removing incentive to WM1
scouts where made for fast captures.
soldiers , heavies and demomans where made for attack.
engineers where made for defenses.
snipers where made for eliminate special targets.
spies where made for stealth.
medics where made for healh players
pyros where made for annoy players.
Sniper is way more broken than Pyro, but requires more skill to pull off, both need reworks.
I agree
It takes alot of time to master aiming for sniper while pyro dosent need aiming but refelcting and deto needs timing
@@arad4619 you know how it feels when you hit perfect reflect critz pipe and saved your teammate
@@arad4619 and when you saved the game as engineer
Yeah those feel p e r f e c t
This video made me realize that the backburner is just stock with a face on it
It also incentivizes the flanking/ ambush play style while promoting proper timing with your air blast
I meant design wise it is literally just the stock flamethrower model worth a face on it
@@totalyaninja7580
Oh yeah! I never realized that
Sorry for misunderstanding your comment
i do agree with this concept, but i feel the need to nitpick at the point that YOU CAN STILL CROSSBOW A SCOUT BEFORE THEY PICK UP A MEDPACK, OR JUST HEAL THEM SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THE MEDPACK
IT'S NOT THAT HARD
pyro wouldn't even be so teeth-grindingly hated if he didn't have airblast
I feel like pyro is like chomper in gw2
Hated by most people
Short ranged
Can't speak
High risk high reward type of gameplay
next why is sniper hated, please?
Eventually, Spy is next and then Sniper
@@SpaceGuyOnline :)))
bots, looking at a sniper's face reminds you of them
Because he's overpowered and doesn't fit in a game where 8/9 classes are designed for CLOSE RANGE combat
1:30 "but struggles in close range" *Gets quick scoped at point blank range*
ok
After a year this is still the most smooth brain thing on youtube
I think you're giving the detonator a bit too much credit. It's a very good movement tool and does reward players for mediocre aim but only if they time the explosion correctly. The scorch shot however is very very rewarding for the shittiest of aim.
yeah the detonators explosion radius and issues with depth perception make it harder to hit that first impressions may give its probably my favourite pyro weapon so i may bias but its movement abilities in exchange for damage is generally fair compared to the other options (scorch shot is too spammable and easy to hit and the manmelter is fairly terribke if you dont build around it)
@@jmurray1110 wdym? The det and the SS have the same radius?
@@thebushbros6626 the fact you have to time the flare explosion with the detnwhile the SS explodes on contact
@@jmurray1110 fair, tho I still like both
Kind of funny that a guy using the sniper as his avatar is saying a weapon (the flare gun) rewards good aim too much for killing light classes if you land two shots.
Fuck the scorch shot though.
There was a really interesting video talking about the original intent for the TFC classes, and the idea behind Pyro was to allow players with bad connections to still contribute to the game by having a class with large area of effect weapons and afterburn which does not require consistently hitting your target.
"Flare Gun rewards too much for good aim"
guess we gotta nerf pyro's stock shotgun too
Pyro was supposed to be ‘bad’ and only do little damage so the other can continue it. So the fact people can solo it, shows that they literally broke the boundaries of what the devs though what would be ´bad’ . Which imo is already a giant thing.
Something tells me that a majority of your TF2 suffering came from Pyro hm?
The only thing in this video that I disagree with is that the flare gun rewards too much because if you miss with it or if it did less damage, you just die. It can't fire fast enough to make up for a miss so you essentially get one shot and you better not fuck it up.
I just noticed that there was a reference to the Morshu meme with the items in the kitchen cabinet