You shouldn’t want the Phlog, a frankly underpowered weapon, to be nerfed because of its synergy with an _overpowered_ weapon. Just nerf the latter and be done with it.
@@ArnisGoldbergAnd it makes you soldier bait as the tradeoff. A class that you can usually crap on now craps on you with the Phlog, and it's only irritating to fight against with the Scorchshot, which is the ACTUAL broken weapon
(I doubt you'll read this but I'm doing this anyway) I think Pyro is a jack-of-all-trades class with a hint of support class mixed in there. Pyro can extinguish friends and get rewarded for it(either using Flamethrower's air blast or the Manmelter). can spy check with incredible efficiency, has mobility options like the Thermal Truster, or detonator jumping, and can have extended range with weapons like the Man Melter or the Dragon's Fury. the Homewrecker can destroy Engie's nests and can help Engi's nest by destroying Spy's sappers. Airblast prevents spamming from certain classes and can ruin an Uber push. Pyro, with the right combos, can be a class to be feared.
Outside of the Thermal Thruster argument, which I *HEAVILY* disagree with and will protect my baby to no end as you are able to do some insane stuff if you know how to use it right (though I wouldn't mind slight buffs or helpful tweaks..), there's a lot to agree in this video. Also I wouldn't mind if they gave the detonator a stomping mechanic as well if they decide one day to patch the exploit for whatever reason, though I'd prefer if they keep said exploit.
as a pyro main, yeah, their purpose is pretty obscure and is incredibly variable, and at first there’s clear dividers that are set depending on a person’s playstyle there’s the safe and easy approach that takes advantage of guaranteed afterburn damage. this is probably how most people play the class because of how effective it is with minimal effort. just by equipping the scorch shot, the enemy medic suddenly has a much harder time doing his job because of all the fire and the reduced ability to crit heal players that have been tagged by it. this type of pyro is often more annoying than anything, since it excels at discouraging people from grouping up and the scorch shot usually isn’t enough to get a kill on its own. this type of playstyle can also be more close ranged, thanks to the nature of the flamethrower being able to punish people too close to you, or get people away if you can’t outdamage them but taking that sort of approach can bring a person through a pipeline, ending on the opposite side of the spectrum. the burst damage pyro is much more fun and much more menacing thanks to the greatest mechanic of all time that is comboing. items that feed into this playstyle would be the flare gun, axetinguisher, and panic attack (and maybe phlog). of course, this playstyle would be nothing if you can’t get near enemies in the first place, and so pyro has nice options for movement that we all know about and then of course there’s the pybro, leaning all the way back and further to become a defensive support due to how specialized these roles are, it’s hard to have two at the same time. take the phlog to be offensive, now you can’t reflect rockets and stickies away from your team. take the scorch shot and your ability to do full crits with a flare gun is gone. take the homewrecker and you’re stuck with the homewrecker. at the end of the day, playing pyro is about balancing these three playstyles and being able to contribute to whatever situation you may be in
Flank/Ambush pyro is definitely the right way to play him. You're telling me that we're given a flamethrower and we're supposed to instead use a flare gun as our main source of damage?
pyro is a support class. any time you see a pyro trying to create space like a demo or a soldier would he looks like a headless chicken running around ending up dying to a sentry or mowed down by a heavy. he is supposed to stick to his engi or med either protecting engi and his buildings or playing as a pocket to build uber and making sure the med is not gonna die waiting for the carry potential to come from spawn and push with the uber you built + pyro is really good at spy checking so he should be in the backline most of the time. the only time you see an offensive pyro is a phlog pocketed pyro with uber yet i still think its a bad strategy its only good for snowballing on defense and on top of that phlog is the worst weapon in pyro's arsenal. pyro's airblast is what defines pyro as a good class and it should be used defensively to deny pushes, putting down fire from your teammates, airblasting uber etc.
pyro main here, i think the loadout you pick defines the playstyle you use - degreaser flaregun for combos/frontlining, detonator for area control/bombing, etc.. However no matter what unlocks you pick(maybe excluding the phlog and the DF) pyro's core role still revolves around protecting teammates by denying uber, killing spies and reflecting projectiles, and also aiding pushes to make them more effective great video btw!
To answer 1:31 before moving on - Pyro can do just about anything that the team needs. Pestering, actual offensive pushes, half of an impenetrable defence, he's got his team's back. As to what he ought to do on his own, I'm sure it's obvious just how suited the class is to a combo-heavy playstyle compared to the others. The thing is, Valve has lost track of what Pyro has become, even though they did most of the transformative work themselves. They added the flare gun, the degreaser, the axtinguisher, the scorch shit, the reserve shooter - all these wonderful toys that let him flow between the three weapon slots smooth as butter, and that let players develop this most optimal playstyle themselves. And yet in Jungle Inferno Valve presents him with two weapons that attempt to "solve" pyro and put him in the stereotypical "attack with primary weapon, use secondary weapon for backup stuff" niche that all other classes occupy. The Dragon's Fury is a flamethrower that isn't "weak" in sheer firepower, at the cost of not being as suitable for combo shenanigans because of different flames and shit airblast, and the jetpack is as secondary as a secondary gets - it's not something you pull out mid-fight to help you (there's your big mystery solved Unusual). Same with the gas passer. Valve is very confused. Wish they weren't.
Pyro is a Jack of All Roles kinda guy; with the help of unlocks, pyro can lean more into one role more than another, while still maintaining his well rounded gameplay. Power: When you decide to be more of a power class, you can use unlocks like the Phlogistinator, Flare Gun, Axtinguisher, and the Dragon’s Fury to increase your possible damage. While you can clean house with the Phlog, you entirely lose the ability to support your team (airblast). On other terms, while you use the Dragon’s Fury you need to aim more, and you don’t have crits, but you can still airblast if you need it, as well as boasting a greater range. While the Dragon’s Fury can still airblast, you can’t support your team in spy checking. The Flare gun is great at burst damage and following up damage on an enemy that is already on fire. The Axtinguisher is great for punishing players that get a little too close. The Axtinguisher’s mini crits and speed boost not only make it a good finishing tool, but good at escaping too. If you choose to be a flanking power class, you could use unlocks like the Backburner, Detonator, or the Thermal Thruster to increase your ability to get behind the enemy, and deal with them after you’re behind them. The Axtinguisher could also help you with the flank Pyro lifestyle. Defense: Pyro’s easy to accomplish fire damage and airblast make him great at protecting a person, building, or certain area. When on Defense, airblast is your best friend. Use airblast to reflect projectiles aimed toward your friendly engineer’s buildings back at them, and stuff any Übercharges coming your way. Support: Pyro on Support has a few specialized weapons at his disposal. For instance, the Manmelter, Homewrecker, and Neon Annihilator can be used to further enhance this. The Manmelter can be used to extinguish teammates, and doing so gives you a crit with it. The Homewrecker and Neon Annihilator can be used to destroy sappers off buildings. It is best to use anything but the Dragon’s Fury for spy checking.
I see Pyro as a mix bag support. A jack of all trades with out needing to change load out. And different unlocks letting him/her enhances certain rolls at the cost of the effectiveness of others without getting rid of the ability to do said rolls.
I think the purpose of the pyro is multiple things. I think that first off, pyro is support, able to remove sappers, spy check, and give enemies burn damage while also putting out flames on teammates makes them great helpers during especially close quarters combat areas. However unlike medic and engi, they don’t entirely focus on support, they have the jet pack allowing them to reach tactical areas and both their flare gun, air blast, and sheer damage potential allows them to fiction as a semi-close range but quick distance closing offensive. Pyro is at his weakest when fleeing from combat.
Okay, so I believe pyros role is to fit any situation on the fly, pyro supports by spy checking, putting out teammates, and getting important picks, pyro defends with airblast making uber pushes, soldiers, and demos less effective, and pyro goes offensive using a bunch of combo making it hard for even heavy to match the dps, overall leading pyro as almost an invisible backbone with all the possible things a pyro can help with in any situation even if they aren’t exactly better at it than other classes
I think of him as a team player kinda class, he can stick with his team reflecting spam and burning spies, but if he needs to he can protect flanks with his combos
Personally I think pyro is more of support class. DEFINETLY more supportive than sniper and spy, still dont know in what conceivable way those two are support classes...
Pyro's a mix of support and offense. His airblast stops ubers and reflects incoming projectiles, protecting your team, but his combo capabilities make him fairly lethal if you can aim your flares. Hes better at roaming then playing in the middle because too many projectiles spells death for her, but sometimes the risk pays off and playing with the team allows them to take less damage to make a better push. Using her for spychecking only is a waste, everyone is responsible for their own backs, but he makes spy checking a lot easier so just check every1 you pass, theres no real downsides. He can counter soldiers and demos fairly easily, but facing good players that vary their shooting speeds and aim at the feet leads to incredibly tense moments, as both players are fighting the urge to shoot or reflect in a rhythmic fashion. His flamethrower also does a decent amount of damage but can go horribly wrong because it cant kill max hp enemies faster than they kill you sometimes.
Close range jack of all trades, master of none, but of their many skills, best at ambushes, projectile denial, and generally causing panic and disarray. Oh, wait, master of 1. Spy murder.
I like the scorch shot because you can pull off some interesting moves with it, aka double hitting them, I’ve thought about how to nerf it in a way so you don’t get punished for doing shots like this, my nerf is remove the ability for splash to inflict afterburn, increase splash damage fall off and though it’s kind of complicated to explain, adjusting a couple of physics numbers such as friction and bounce angle it’ll make double hitting higher skill, also lower the base damage penalty
Purpose of pyro (answer to the pause thing at 1:23): Pyro is made to be a Jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none character that can be offensive, defensive, and supportive at all times whilst having unlocks that lean into one of the three play styles. Personally, the way I enjoy pyro (and I think more people should try to play them like this) is combo pyro, with the degreaser, flare gun or detonator, and the axestinguisher. It gives pyro a much higher skill floor and a MUCH higher skill ceiling, whilst allowing you to come up with flashy and creative ways to kill your enemies, whilst still being effective and supporting your team. Edit: oh wow I was pretty spot on
also in terms of what to do with the sharpened volcano fragment, I think changing its damage penalty to a swing speed penalty and also giving it bleed (it is sharpened after all) would do wonders for its viability as a pure melee weapon. the problem with that though, along with a straight upgrade like the third degree or debatably the back scratcher, is that the utility of the powerjack or the combo potential of the axetinguisher overshadow every use case for other melees. I'm suprised this wasn't noted, as it is by far the most centralizing and therefore fundamentally overpowered aspect of pyro play. there is basically no case for a good pyro player to run anything other than the powerjack and maybe the axetinguisher.
Pyro is a frontline ambusher. I say front Line because they have the same health as a demoman but has the survivability greater than him due to base movement speed. And his airblast along with other movement tools. His flamethrower can create consistent damage that doesn’t require aim at all allowing for the pyro to go through the motions and make calculated decisions while the enemy can’t. The flamethrower allows for better decision making from the pyro while the enemies panic. After a second or two the secondary off the pyro always has a form of “burst” damage, honestly I’d say for this role the shotgun is best for this but the flare gun is phenomenal at clearing up people who try and get away. But as a role, i’d say he’s an adaptable frontline class. Probably the most survivable class at point blank due to high health and options to deal with damage along with base movement speed.
The way the classes are lined up in the class selection screen spells it out. Pyro is closer to the defense side so he's a defense leaning offense. Just like on the other side how Medic is the most defensive support.
While I agree with your overall point, I would say Sniper is the most defensive; you rarely see him being effective on attack, while Medic is good on both defense and offense as he can break a stalemate on either side.
Any tips on fixing the gas passer in a way that keeps the "Allies Must Exist Or The Can Does Not Anymore" angle? Keeps it as a "This exists so you the pyro can Refuse To Acknowledge that where you threw it Exists" type thing?
I think that the Sharpened Volcano Fragment should be much like the Axtinguisher, but it heals (for like 50 hp or so) instead of dealing mini crits off of afterburn. So while the Axtinguisher is about 1v1s and burst, the Sharpened Volcano Fragment is about Pyro becoming more of a frontliner/off-tank.
I think the purpose of pyro is to be a multi purpose class, a support here an offensive push there then defend the engies and control points. Just like their personality they are a blank slate
I personally think Pyro's original design was to have a mix of sustained damage and burst damage, to keep them as a mid-ground for skill levels, as their original design in QTF and TFC was to be a class for laggy players to pick, with a Flamethrower for more reliable close-range sustained damage despite lag, and a Shotgun for more precise aiming, but with more safety as you don't have to stay close-range to be effective, and to generally allow for damage in places where the Flamethrower would fail, in turn making the class able to be played effectively by all skill levels, just that more skilled players would be more rewarded with using the Shotgun, but still in turn giving Pyros a stigma for being brain-dead, even when the class is designed that way, yet is still more effective the more thought and timing you put into it, making Pyro an Offensive class with unintended Defensive capabilities due to the Spy glitch, and in turn the Spy being able to be seen through by them burning (at least I'm presuming for the time), and that carried over into TF2, but as the game progressed Pyro was slowly shifted into being capable of Defense with the Homewrecker and innate Spychecking capability, Support with 2008's Airblast mechanic, and Offense with the Pyro just being Pyro.
Doing the Pausing thing as thine asked: Spy Checking, Aiding Engineers, Semi Countering Projectile/Explosive classes, flanking depending on the map and enemy team, dealing with low health ans securing kills with flame damage, sneak attacks, directly countering Demoknight and Uber stomping. Now most of these you can say "But most classes can do most of those. Your right. Every class that is not spy can do these. Goodbye 👍
what is pyro...hm. pyro is a weird mix of aggro and support. sometimes want him in the other guys' faces making a big stink of everything. other times you want him to be the ultimate bodyguard and ward off heat on the combo with airblasts and flare irritations. still other times you want him as a semi-mobile assassination class to pick off key targets. all of this ends up making pyro fairly flexible were it not for two things: the fact that he can't do shit at range beyond flares (and the occasional dragon's fury), and the fact that two out of the three roles i mentioned above is handled better by different classes (iirc pyros in comp and such usually accompany the medic and his pocket to make sure they dont get overwhelmed by projectile spam)
I already know that the devs put in pyro as an option for players with bad connection/performance, but otherwise I see pyro as a class that can sustain a fight remarkably well without any highly exploitable weaknesses. despite the extremely debilitating weaknesses of low damage output and limited range, the crowd control, airblast, and sustain of the flamethrower complement pyro's mobility and healthpool remarkably well to mostly make up for it. every other class needs breaks to reload or reposition where the pyro doesn't. this does suit the w+m1 playstyle but in my opinion makes it much more interesting to use pyro as an aggressive frontliner that keeps just out of the ramp up range that benefits more powerful classes.
The true way of pyro is to use the support and offense aspect of him. I like to play with stock flamethrower, flare gun, and homewrecker. So you could be offensive with extreme fire damage of stock, and supportive with airblast. And homewrecker, offense with destroying enemy sentry nest quicker, and support, just remove sappers. But make sure to keep a fire damage tracker on the spy if you can. So yeah, pyro is amazing at helping and offending. So may you please never forget the damage potential, that his thing has. Btw, yes I main pyro.
I usually play more Pyro than other class, and also I play really defensively and supportive, you are the one spy checking and pushing out Uber's, I really love playing like that. Even with new players
Pyro acts as a all rounder, his purpose isn't one direct thing, they are very gamestyle friendly allowing you to achieve almost any goal with the right mindset and load out There isn't one specific way of playing him, play him the way you want to
I suppose that pyro is a close range specialist with a reflect ability to let him get in close. While also having the double up of countering spy. And yes we all know the s is a bait for commenta
Purpose of pyro? Easy answer to me. A class that supports via being offensive. Hang around corners to kill easy, but out in the open you're likely to be dead meat. Stick near your team to check for spies. Apply afterburn to opponents so your allies can take them down easier and extinguish fires set by enemy pyros. Reflect incoming projectiles away from a group of allies back at the enemy, saving their hides and getting a kill at the same time. That's pyro's design intention to me. Anyway gonna continue with the video just did what ya told me to.
Pyro is kind of a punish class tbh. Push in? Get punished. Shoot projectile? Punished. You walk in with an ubered heavy? Puni- *Kirby that day was shredded by the Heavy, who can out-damage, out-tank, and just completely counter pyro* Honestly, Heavy needs a buff, Scout can wreck pyro, shotguns actually help but you CAN beat a pyro by using some good rockets and juking him out (I have been on BOTH sides of that), Demoman has a loadout to maximize pyro countering (Regular stickies or Quickies, Loose Cannon), Heavy eats Pyro up (But not for breakfast or anything that quick), Engineer can shred a pyro like a sniper, Medic has some tools to help his team against pyro (Putting them out, Uber, Quick Fix for Airblast, Krits to kill the Pyro, fire damage res, crit melee from around a corner), Sniper counters... everything, and Spy is the weakest class in the game but he can still gun a pyro down. EVERY CLASS has some way to deal with Pyro You can't just say that Engineer is OP for having a sentry, for example It's just kind of his thing. (Also off topic but Wrangler has a counter too, people. The Engineer should be Marked For Death when he uses the Wrangler to tell people this weakness more clearly: RUSH THE ENGINEER AND THE SENTRY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO KILL YOU AS EASILY. Backstab him or something, sheesh. A Spy can literally take out a Wrangler engineer since the Sentry can still be sapped and the engineer can still be stabbed. If you need a Wrangler nerf that badly, nerf switching off of the wrangler and Mark the Engineer For Death when he uses it.) Now since Scorch Shot will probably be talked about here, I have a stance on that too. It should only be nerfed in damage. Annoyance is fine. Afterburn is fine. It should not be able to do 50 damage in a single shot to anyone within 3 feet / a Meter of the shot. Single hit of 20 and Minicrit of 30? Even to Pyro himself? No thank you. It needs to do 10 damage. It's fine if it sets people on fire for as long as it does, and the Minicrit should be kept for Knockback. Even the explosion is fine. Just... give the Detonator the Scorch Shot's damage output and give the Scorch Shot the Detonators damage output. It shouldn't hit the same person twice with one shot, and it shouldn't do so much damage. I've hit someone TWICE and they die to Afterburn after just spawning. That's not fair. I'd like to charge my Phlog (SS used with Phlog for the Fire damage not the initial explosion) WITHOUT feeling bad every time I hit someone, please. Also I want the Scorch Shot to work as well as it does now with the Dragon's Fury, so... I only need the Afterburn anyways. Idc if it does LESS than the Afterburn does in one tick after it's nerfed, I just want easy fire damage to work with Dragon's Fury.
Pyro is supposed to be a jack of all trades, master of none. With various weapons allowing the pyro to spec in one direction a bit more but never fully becoming strictly a damage or flank or support class(at least not with just one weapon, entire loadouts are different).
I feel like scorch shot should just lose the damn explosion as a whole. If it is still op, remove the double hit. We have the detonator as a splash flare, so a knockback flare is honestly should be a gimmick.
Ime pyro is most effective as a dedicated babysitter. Pyro is inconsistent at winning 1v1s and team fights but is really scary paired with any other class as they have excellent tools to protect them. Best friend to medic.
Just sharing my thoughts here: I started maining Pyro a while ago and I think that versatility is what makes it so fun for me. To be honest I don't think I'd play him nearly as much as I do if it wasn't for the Dragon's Fury. It switches Pyro from a jack of all trades to a terrifying offensive push. You can 1v1 heavies consistently and delete light classes in 2 shots. It also rewards actual aiming which is the biggest complaint people have about the class. The airblast is painfully slow and I think that could get a slight buff since I consider the weapon more of a sidegrade. Pairing the dragon's fury with the detonator and the homewrecker makes you into a really, really valuable asset for your team.
The jetpack is actually meant for dive and bail plays. Go mostly up, not horizontal, come down on someone with a puff, a melee, and possibly a stomp, before then jumping away to safety. The goomba stomp on the pyro is actually better than the one on the mantreads in my opinion because flamethrowers won't shred your own health when used point blank following a successful bomb. You do have to know what you are doing, though. The skill floor for using the jetpack and not getting called out by someone or thing you didn't see while using it is fairly high. But tf2 players do have an issue with looking up, so if you manage to corner above their heads and drop on them, you can kill people without them knowing you were coming.
Making it short? Pyro is a defensive team mom based on LazyPurple's deduction. He lacks the mobility for ambushes, doesn't have the range for Frontline pushes, and is unbearably good at Spy checking. Mix that in with the addition of airblast and Py-bro is what I'd say the class is designed for.
Per your request: As someone who never played TF2 (Or 1) I feel they're like a berserker class, that deal quite a lot of damage, but quickly die as well. Edit: I didn't expect them to be a tank. I was kind of right, I guess
I feel that he was made to be the first person in a fight to go and burn target's then die making all of them low health and someone else to take them down all because of his flamethrower but when airblast came it helped him more on the being first in the fight and now requires more skill so that his not only w-m1 and as time went on he became more of jack of all traits being able to support engis by spy checking and getting rid of sappers with his home wrecker and neon weapons and being able to insta kill classes if he flare punch but i think the actual reason he exist is because of spy's and spy didn't come to mind pyro would not exist
I do recommend checking out FishStickonaStick’s Rebalance mod. It fixes the Gas Passer (reduced charge time, 35 damage explosion) and Thermal Thruster, and there are plans to buff/change the Third Degree and nerf the Scorch Shot. When the server gets pretty full, I frequently see Pyro being filled to the 3 player class limit, and it’s honestly refreshing to play with some of the changes (including fixed Caber, Buffalo Steak, and Cleaner’s Carbine). Come on by sometime!
I think a pyro should lean a bit more into a specifice playstyle (damage, defense, support, flank) and switch into a diffrent playstyle when needed allowing him to be very versitile but not a specialist in any role. (like medic specialises in supportive healing and soldier or scout in damage etc)
Pyro feels like a very Jack of all trades class, almost has a janitor vibe about him, like he's a class I feel is built around team play, extinguishing teammates, reflecting incoming projectiles at your combo or engi nest, checking for spies, etc.
I'm really surprised there was no mention of the Dragons Fury. It's pretty good in my opinion, and shifts pyro from a defensive class to a strong offensive class
just add regular crits back to the axtinguisher and im happy, so tired of trying to combo a medic and getting them down to 10 health before dying myself.
don't really feel like the thermal thruster glitch should be a top priority fix and that it is one of the most broken parts of the class. Like you said it is simply too situational. You need to constantly perform the glitch after every single death and you take minicrit damage from certain weapons, like the direct hit and the reserve shooter. Is it a bug? yeah. Is it the most broken part of the class? definitely not
I liek the thruster, I mostly use it when Im on a very high damage close range set, like the Backburner and axe..... but yah detinator is far more well rounded and fits better for like 90% of pyro sets as for the CB.... I love the butt blast, its got such a minor use but its funny as hell.... it should be kept, I would even love it if they added a fart sound effect when an enemy player gets moved from it XD
Pyro is one of the classes that can be all but none. Just like soldier and demo. But in a different way, via using unlocks, all classes have unlocks, but they don't change the play still as much as pyro. Equipping a different weapon forces the player to play a certain way. Most of the other classes have weapons that change, but their role and play style are relatively the same. You could argue that their are subclasses, but honestly I don't think that really counts here. Opinions!!!
Pyro doesn’t have a “set playstyle” due to how flexible the class is. It can play as support (extinguish team mates, help our engis, spy check) defensive (reflect rockets/pipes, push back stickies, deny uber pushes -debatable with kritz, both sides are one shot on kill regarding airblast and who is the ubered class-) or offensive (flare gun, dragons fury, backburner… Phlog isn’t respectable.) Pyro to me does not have a set playstyle to use as. He is quite literally flexible given how little range he can work with. Quite literally a jack of all trades. But it sucks how he has a reputation within the community. Pyro is seen as a easy class to master and nothing more than a hinderance or a annoyance if anything. Like the people who try to main pyro like myself doesn’t deserve respect or recognition. When i play the class, i dont try to get praise or such. it gives off this terrible stigma that i should just avoid playing pyro. My actual main is Medic since no one picks him, but i find pyro to be a fun class. I dont use the phlog, scorch shot, whatever. I just use stock with shotgun/flare gun with the powerjack. And i do my best to help the team win as best i can. Where it be extinguishing them, airblasting, or just doing the objective. I wanna be a team player. Not some kind of cancer cell.
I’d say that pyro is a very “Jack of all trades” class. He can deal an incredible amount of burst damage with his combos and reflects, which is his primary way to fight (which is why he’s in offense) but Pyro does so much more. He can crowd control and hold defensive points like any defense class, and some of his weapons even directly help or synergizes with other classes (home wrecker, neon annihilator). So while Pyro mainly focuses on damage, he has the potential to be a defensive or supportive class with the right weapons and strategy. That’s how I play Pyro anyways
I'd go as far as to say Pyro is the only true jack of all trades. All other classes lean towards a specific playstyle (tank, pick, support, assault) or lean towards either staying in one spot or moving forward. Pyro can do all of these jobs except tank damage (and even then airblast exists for some slight healing and making sure you dont take damage to begin with). There's nothing specific a Pyro can do that a skilled player probably couldn't do better on a different class (except spycheck), but Pyro has access to all the options at the same time.
@@infucktus4899 Yes, that's what I'm saying, he's the most generalist class in the game. Other generalists lean towards specific goals, like Soldier's very tank-like ability to take higher amounts of damage and keep his team by his side, only heightened by unlocks such as the Black Box, Battalions Backup, and Concherer. You could also look to Demoman's power to clear chokepoints and objectives with his dual primary weapons, and Scout's focus on reaching backlines for both backcapping and flanking using his speed and verticality.
I main medic/pyro and heavy, having played several seasons in 6s and HL and have atleast 200 hours per class. I think flex/support is pyros area of expertise. Being able to be passive AND aggressive in one go is his main focus. Protect medic, then run off and get picks.
As someone who currently mains pyro and has used every unlock to some extent, I view Pyro as the backbone to any team. While Soldier, Heavy, Demo, and other frontline classes lead the assault, and Engineers and Snipers set themselves up in the back, Pyro is the one class versatile enough to aid both defensively and offensively even with his default kit. Ignoring unlocks, the default flamethrower can both ward off enemies with flames, and deny projectiles with airblast. And, the shotgun can easily finish off enemies that are out of your flamethrower's range, making sure your teammates can get back to fighting bigger and tougher enemies, and won't need to worry about spies and other classes that may sneak around to break the team. Including unlocks, this is where Pyro truly shines, as they can begin specializing in certain aspects of that playstyle. Pyro's melee goes from completely useless to game-changing in a matter of seconds with unlocks. The Powerjack allows Pyro to move quicker, making switching between frontline and backline protection easier. But, you can also further specialize with things like the Homewrecker, making protecting engineer nests trivial, but sacrificing potential on offense. The Axtinguisher does a 180 on this, and allows you to shut down light classes on the battlefield, but you lose out on that support that the Homewrecker has. There are a lot more examples, but those are the easiest to explain and I kinda wanna avoid making this 5000 words long.
Id argue that the homewrecker is kind of unfair against spies, idk why pyro was given the ability to one shot sappers especially when he is a very hard counter for spies
@@shmoking466 I think the Homewrecker trade off is justified like I outlined in the main comment, because you are essentially trading the versatility of the Powerjack or the Backscratcher for a weapon that makes it easier to protect Engineers. It also doesn't take away the fact that Pyro still can't repair those same damages, so until the Engineer gets back to do so, its essentially permanently damaged.
@@shmoking466I think the home wrecker is one of those “not the ubersaw” where compared to stock, yes it’s better 90% of the time. But when you use the home wrecker you don’t get the power jacks speed, the backscratchers health, the axtinguishers combos, ect. It’s not really about what the weapon’s making you lose, it’s more about what better thing you could use instead.
Someone who used to main pyro chiming in, I always felt like pyro's purpose was a class designed to punish overly aggressive players on both offensive and defensive games, being useful for dealing with light classes and moping up weakened power classes with a combination of chargrilling them or airblasting them into a new quantum realm.
1:28 I think pyros job is flanking and supporting. Pyro is really bad in an open battlefield, but really good in narrow chokes or in buildings. Also air blasting, spy checking and removing sappers (with jack) sounds like support to me.
Great video and editing as always. I'm not sure how the class is *supposed* to be played, but I always find it most effective when I sneak around behind or above the enemy and ambush them outta nowhere. Sure, I usually die in the process, but I always get like 4 or 5 kills. Totally worth it.
I feel like Pyro kind of fills the role of the wild card, he can sometimes be over aggressive, reaching into enemy territory and causing trouble, and other times hang back and help protect other classes especially with their air blast. Pyro can switch between these styles on a dime, meaning it’s hard to predict what he’ll do any situation. I play pyro switching between these kind of styles depending on the round, and I think the actual character of pyro (from what we know) would probably randomly change up his “strategy” surprising the enemy team
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Despite being in the offence class section, I think Pyro's role is defensive-support for both teams. Aside from maybe Heavy and Sniper, Pyros pretty good at punishing those who are too agressive/push without backup. His ability to dected and kill Spies easily, along with his ability to reflect blast based damage and players back from you own team, I think this fits his role as a punisher like character.
You have serious potential my man, easily earned my sub, keep up the great work.
Oh hey hi weezy
I dare you to make a bad load out for mvm video
Your welcome for video idea.
@@nanoblob4998 loose cannon
Base jumper
Caber
Get kicked from mvm any% speedrun
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You shouldn’t want the Phlog, a frankly underpowered weapon, to be nerfed because of its synergy with an _overpowered_ weapon. Just nerf the latter and be done with it.
Phlog is OP literally wtf are you on about? W+M1 for 10 seconds to get crits for another 10.
@@ArnisGoldbergAnd it makes you soldier bait as the tradeoff.
A class that you can usually crap on now craps on you with the Phlog, and it's only irritating to fight against with the Scorchshot, which is the ACTUAL broken weapon
@@ArnisGoldberg It's only op if you have medic to uber you.
Pls, don't gave him the caber treatment...
@@ArnisGoldberg 2 IQ reply to be honest.
Aye good to see you back sandwich!
"What is Pyro" The living embodiment of fire
(I doubt you'll read this but I'm doing this anyway)
I think Pyro is a jack-of-all-trades class with a hint of support class mixed in there.
Pyro can extinguish friends and get rewarded for it(either using Flamethrower's air blast or the Manmelter). can spy check with incredible efficiency, has mobility options like the Thermal Truster, or detonator jumping, and can have extended range with weapons like the Man Melter or the Dragon's Fury. the Homewrecker can destroy Engie's nests and can help Engi's nest by destroying Spy's sappers. Airblast prevents spamming from certain classes and can ruin an Uber push.
Pyro, with the right combos, can be a class to be feared.
Outside of the Thermal Thruster argument, which I *HEAVILY* disagree with and will protect my baby to no end as you are able to do some insane stuff if you know how to use it right (though I wouldn't mind slight buffs or helpful tweaks..), there's a lot to agree in this video. Also I wouldn't mind if they gave the detonator a stomping mechanic as well if they decide one day to patch the exploit for whatever reason, though I'd prefer if they keep said exploit.
as a pyro main, yeah, their purpose is pretty obscure and is incredibly variable, and at first there’s clear dividers that are set depending on a person’s playstyle
there’s the safe and easy approach that takes advantage of guaranteed afterburn damage. this is probably how most people play the class because of how effective it is with minimal effort. just by equipping the scorch shot, the enemy medic suddenly has a much harder time doing his job because of all the fire and the reduced ability to crit heal players that have been tagged by it. this type of pyro is often more annoying than anything, since it excels at discouraging people from grouping up and the scorch shot usually isn’t enough to get a kill on its own. this type of playstyle can also be more close ranged, thanks to the nature of the flamethrower being able to punish people too close to you, or get people away if you can’t outdamage them
but taking that sort of approach can bring a person through a pipeline, ending on the opposite side of the spectrum. the burst damage pyro is much more fun and much more menacing thanks to the greatest mechanic of all time that is comboing. items that feed into this playstyle would be the flare gun, axetinguisher, and panic attack (and maybe phlog). of course, this playstyle would be nothing if you can’t get near enemies in the first place, and so pyro has nice options for movement that we all know about
and then of course there’s the pybro, leaning all the way back and further to become a defensive support
due to how specialized these roles are, it’s hard to have two at the same time. take the phlog to be offensive, now you can’t reflect rockets and stickies away from your team. take the scorch shot and your ability to do full crits with a flare gun is gone. take the homewrecker and you’re stuck with the homewrecker. at the end of the day, playing pyro is about balancing these three playstyles and being able to contribute to whatever situation you may be in
1:10 for some reason i read this as "when pyro gets aromantic"
Flank/Ambush pyro is definitely the right way to play him. You're telling me that we're given a flamethrower and we're supposed to instead use a flare gun as our main source of damage?
pyro is a support class. any time you see a pyro trying to create space like a demo or a soldier would he looks like a headless chicken running around ending up dying to a sentry or mowed down by a heavy. he is supposed to stick to his engi or med either protecting engi and his buildings or playing as a pocket to build uber and making sure the med is not gonna die waiting for the carry potential to come from spawn and push with the uber you built + pyro is really good at spy checking so he should be in the backline most of the time. the only time you see an offensive pyro is a phlog pocketed pyro with uber yet i still think its a bad strategy its only good for snowballing on defense and on top of that phlog is the worst weapon in pyro's arsenal.
pyro's airblast is what defines pyro as a good class and it should be used defensively to deny pushes, putting down fire from your teammates, airblasting uber etc.
Love these vids! Great work and keep it coming!
pyro main here, i think the loadout you pick defines the playstyle you use - degreaser flaregun for combos/frontlining, detonator for area control/bombing, etc.. However no matter what unlocks you pick(maybe excluding the phlog and the DF) pyro's core role still revolves around protecting teammates by denying uber, killing spies and reflecting projectiles, and also aiding pushes to make them more effective
great video btw!
To answer 1:31 before moving on - Pyro can do just about anything that the team needs. Pestering, actual offensive pushes, half of an impenetrable defence, he's got his team's back. As to what he ought to do on his own, I'm sure it's obvious just how suited the class is to a combo-heavy playstyle compared to the others.
The thing is, Valve has lost track of what Pyro has become, even though they did most of the transformative work themselves. They added the flare gun, the degreaser, the axtinguisher, the scorch shit, the reserve shooter - all these wonderful toys that let him flow between the three weapon slots smooth as butter, and that let players develop this most optimal playstyle themselves.
And yet in Jungle Inferno Valve presents him with two weapons that attempt to "solve" pyro and put him in the stereotypical "attack with primary weapon, use secondary weapon for backup stuff" niche that all other classes occupy. The Dragon's Fury is a flamethrower that isn't "weak" in sheer firepower, at the cost of not being as suitable for combo shenanigans because of different flames and shit airblast, and the jetpack is as secondary as a secondary gets - it's not something you pull out mid-fight to help you (there's your big mystery solved Unusual). Same with the gas passer.
Valve is very confused. Wish they weren't.
1:18 Insanely aggressive, Pyrovision items, and the most bizarre combination of cosmetics available, a pocket Medic gf if possible.
Pyro is a Jack of All Roles kinda guy; with the help of unlocks, pyro can lean more into one role more than another, while still maintaining his well rounded gameplay.
Power: When you decide to be more of a power class, you can use unlocks like the Phlogistinator, Flare Gun, Axtinguisher, and the Dragon’s Fury to increase your possible damage. While you can clean house with the Phlog, you entirely lose the ability to support your team (airblast). On other terms, while you use the Dragon’s Fury you need to aim more, and you don’t have crits, but you can still airblast if you need it, as well as boasting a greater range. While the Dragon’s Fury can still airblast, you can’t support your team in spy checking. The Flare gun is great at burst damage and following up damage on an enemy that is already on fire. The Axtinguisher is great for punishing players that get a little too close. The Axtinguisher’s mini crits and speed boost not only make it a good finishing tool, but good at escaping too.
If you choose to be a flanking power class, you could use unlocks like the Backburner, Detonator, or the Thermal Thruster to increase your ability to get behind the enemy, and deal with them after you’re behind them. The Axtinguisher could also help you with the flank Pyro lifestyle.
Defense: Pyro’s easy to accomplish fire damage and airblast make him great at protecting a person, building, or certain area. When on Defense, airblast is your best friend. Use airblast to reflect projectiles aimed toward your friendly engineer’s buildings back at them, and stuff any Übercharges coming your way.
Support: Pyro on Support has a few specialized weapons at his disposal. For instance, the Manmelter, Homewrecker, and Neon Annihilator can be used to further enhance this. The Manmelter can be used to extinguish teammates, and doing so gives you a crit with it. The Homewrecker and Neon Annihilator can be used to destroy sappers off buildings. It is best to use anything but the Dragon’s Fury for spy checking.
I see Pyro as a mix bag support. A jack of all trades with out needing to change load out. And different unlocks letting him/her enhances certain rolls at the cost of the effectiveness of others without getting rid of the ability to do said rolls.
I think the purpose of the pyro is multiple things. I think that first off, pyro is support, able to remove sappers, spy check, and give enemies burn damage while also putting out flames on teammates makes them great helpers during especially close quarters combat areas. However unlike medic and engi, they don’t entirely focus on support, they have the jet pack allowing them to reach tactical areas and both their flare gun, air blast, and sheer damage potential allows them to fiction as a semi-close range but quick distance closing offensive. Pyro is at his weakest when fleeing from combat.
Pyro is a hybrid of offense and defense, but ultimately a close-to-mid range combat Class.
Okay, so I believe pyros role is to fit any situation on the fly, pyro supports by spy checking, putting out teammates, and getting important picks, pyro defends with airblast making uber pushes, soldiers, and demos less effective, and pyro goes offensive using a bunch of combo making it hard for even heavy to match the dps, overall leading pyro as almost an invisible backbone with all the possible things a pyro can help with in any situation even if they aren’t exactly better at it than other classes
area denial, getting enemies away from objectives, countering spy
I think of him as a team player kinda class, he can stick with his team reflecting spam and burning spies, but if he needs to he can protect flanks with his combos
Personally I think pyro is more of support class. DEFINETLY more supportive than sniper and spy, still dont know in what conceivable way those two are support classes...
Pyro's a mix of support and offense. His airblast stops ubers and reflects incoming projectiles, protecting your team, but his combo capabilities make him fairly lethal if you can aim your flares. Hes better at roaming then playing in the middle because too many projectiles spells death for her, but sometimes the risk pays off and playing with the team allows them to take less damage to make a better push. Using her for spychecking only is a waste, everyone is responsible for their own backs, but he makes spy checking a lot easier so just check every1 you pass, theres no real downsides. He can counter soldiers and demos fairly easily, but facing good players that vary their shooting speeds and aim at the feet leads to incredibly tense moments, as both players are fighting the urge to shoot or reflect in a rhythmic fashion. His flamethrower also does a decent amount of damage but can go horribly wrong because it cant kill max hp enemies faster than they kill you sometimes.
Close range jack of all trades, master of none, but of their many skills, best at ambushes, projectile denial, and generally causing panic and disarray.
Oh, wait, master of 1. Spy murder.
the explode on ignite idea was already tried in gps's balancemod. it is probably the most problematic and controversial idea in practise.
I like the scorch shot because you can pull off some interesting moves with it, aka double hitting them, I’ve thought about how to nerf it in a way so you don’t get punished for doing shots like this, my nerf is remove the ability for splash to inflict afterburn, increase splash damage fall off and though it’s kind of complicated to explain, adjusting a couple of physics numbers such as friction and bounce angle it’ll make double hitting higher skill, also lower the base damage penalty
My main use for Pyro is getting whatever is annoying the team. Detonator down a Sniper, Spy check for payload, bully Medic.
Purpose of pyro (answer to the pause thing at 1:23):
Pyro is made to be a Jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none character that can be offensive, defensive, and supportive at all times whilst having unlocks that lean into one of the three play styles. Personally, the way I enjoy pyro (and I think more people should try to play them like this) is combo pyro, with the degreaser, flare gun or detonator, and the axestinguisher. It gives pyro a much higher skill floor and a MUCH higher skill ceiling, whilst allowing you to come up with flashy and creative ways to kill your enemies, whilst still being effective and supporting your team.
Edit: oh wow I was pretty spot on
My current knowledge is that pyro can do mostly anything. Combo, wm1, offense boi, etc.
also in terms of what to do with the sharpened volcano fragment, I think changing its damage penalty to a swing speed penalty and also giving it bleed (it is sharpened after all) would do wonders for its viability as a pure melee weapon. the problem with that though, along with a straight upgrade like the third degree or debatably the back scratcher, is that the utility of the powerjack or the combo potential of the axetinguisher overshadow every use case for other melees. I'm suprised this wasn't noted, as it is by far the most centralizing and therefore fundamentally overpowered aspect of pyro play. there is basically no case for a good pyro player to run anything other than the powerjack and maybe the axetinguisher.
The oblivion and kh music is perfect!
Spacing is the role of pyro to keep enemies from important areas safe like guarding engineers maybe becomes from my pybro bais
This makes sense
Nobody really knows what exactly the pyro is, and in game no one knows what pyro's exact role is
Pyro's purpose is to ignite enemies and be a motivator for its team with his/Her's personality.
Pyro is a frontline ambusher.
I say front Line because they have the same health as a demoman but has the survivability greater than him due to base movement speed. And his airblast along with other movement tools. His flamethrower can create consistent damage that doesn’t require aim at all allowing for the pyro to go through the motions and make calculated decisions while the enemy can’t. The flamethrower allows for better decision making from the pyro while the enemies panic. After a second or two the secondary off the pyro always has a form of “burst” damage, honestly I’d say for this role the shotgun is best for this but the flare gun is phenomenal at clearing up people who try and get away.
But as a role, i’d say he’s an adaptable frontline class. Probably the most survivable class at point blank due to high health and options to deal with damage along with base movement speed.
The way the classes are lined up in the class selection screen spells it out. Pyro is closer to the defense side so he's a defense leaning offense. Just like on the other side how Medic is the most defensive support.
While I agree with your overall point, I would say Sniper is the most defensive; you rarely see him being effective on attack, while Medic is good on both defense and offense as he can break a stalemate on either side.
Any tips on fixing the gas passer in a way that keeps the "Allies Must Exist Or The Can Does Not Anymore" angle? Keeps it as a "This exists so you the pyro can Refuse To Acknowledge that where you threw it Exists" type thing?
When I was a child, I spammed the scorch shit all the time. Then I grew up and became a combo pyro with the flare gun. I must make Sketchek proud.
I think that the Sharpened Volcano Fragment should be much like the Axtinguisher, but it heals (for like 50 hp or so) instead of dealing mini crits off of afterburn. So while the Axtinguisher is about 1v1s and burst, the Sharpened Volcano Fragment is about Pyro becoming more of a frontliner/off-tank.
I think the purpose of pyro is to be a multi purpose class, a support here an offensive push there then defend the engies and control points.
Just like their personality they are a blank slate
I personally think Pyro's original design was to have a mix of sustained damage and burst damage, to keep them as a mid-ground for skill levels, as their original design in QTF and TFC was to be a class for laggy players to pick, with a Flamethrower for more reliable close-range sustained damage despite lag, and a Shotgun for more precise aiming, but with more safety as you don't have to stay close-range to be effective, and to generally allow for damage in places where the Flamethrower would fail, in turn making the class able to be played effectively by all skill levels, just that more skilled players would be more rewarded with using the Shotgun, but still in turn giving Pyros a stigma for being brain-dead, even when the class is designed that way, yet is still more effective the more thought and timing you put into it, making Pyro an Offensive class with unintended Defensive capabilities due to the Spy glitch, and in turn the Spy being able to be seen through by them burning (at least I'm presuming for the time), and that carried over into TF2, but as the game progressed Pyro was slowly shifted into being capable of Defense with the Homewrecker and innate Spychecking capability, Support with 2008's Airblast mechanic, and Offense with the Pyro just being Pyro.
Doing the Pausing thing as thine asked:
Spy Checking, Aiding Engineers, Semi Countering Projectile/Explosive classes, flanking depending on the map and enemy team, dealing with low health ans securing kills with flame damage, sneak attacks, directly countering Demoknight and Uber stomping.
Now most of these you can say "But most classes can do most of those. Your right.
Every class that is not spy can do these.
Goodbye 👍
what is pyro...hm.
pyro is a weird mix of aggro and support. sometimes want him in the other guys' faces making a big stink of everything. other times you want him to be the ultimate bodyguard and ward off heat on the combo with airblasts and flare irritations. still other times you want him as a semi-mobile assassination class to pick off key targets.
all of this ends up making pyro fairly flexible were it not for two things: the fact that he can't do shit at range beyond flares (and the occasional dragon's fury), and the fact that two out of the three roles i mentioned above is handled better by different classes (iirc pyros in comp and such usually accompany the medic and his pocket to make sure they dont get overwhelmed by projectile spam)
I already know that the devs put in pyro as an option for players with bad connection/performance, but otherwise I see pyro as a class that can sustain a fight remarkably well without any highly exploitable weaknesses. despite the extremely debilitating weaknesses of low damage output and limited range, the crowd control, airblast, and sustain of the flamethrower complement pyro's mobility and healthpool remarkably well to mostly make up for it. every other class needs breaks to reload or reposition where the pyro doesn't. this does suit the w+m1 playstyle but in my opinion makes it much more interesting to use pyro as an aggressive frontliner that keeps just out of the ramp up range that benefits more powerful classes.
The true way of pyro is to use the support and offense aspect of him. I like to play with stock flamethrower, flare gun, and homewrecker. So you could be offensive with extreme fire damage of stock, and supportive with airblast. And homewrecker, offense with destroying enemy sentry nest quicker, and support, just remove sappers. But make sure to keep a fire damage tracker on the spy if you can. So yeah, pyro is amazing at helping and offending. So may you please never forget the damage potential, that his thing has. Btw, yes I main pyro.
I usually play more Pyro than other class, and also I play really defensively and supportive, you are the one spy checking and pushing out Uber's, I really love playing like that. Even with new players
Pyro acts as a all rounder, his purpose isn't one direct thing, they are very gamestyle friendly allowing you to achieve almost any goal with the right mindset and load out
There isn't one specific way of playing him, play him the way you want to
"Fucking around and being an annoyance"
I suppose that pyro is a close range specialist with a reflect ability to let him get in close. While also having the double up of countering spy. And yes we all know the s is a bait for commenta
pyro's broken in every way of the word and i love it
Purpose of pyro? Easy answer to me. A class that supports via being offensive. Hang around corners to kill easy, but out in the open you're likely to be dead meat. Stick near your team to check for spies. Apply afterburn to opponents so your allies can take them down easier and extinguish fires set by enemy pyros. Reflect incoming projectiles away from a group of allies back at the enemy, saving their hides and getting a kill at the same time.
That's pyro's design intention to me. Anyway gonna continue with the video just did what ya told me to.
Pyro is kind of a punish class tbh.
Push in? Get punished.
Shoot projectile?
Punished.
You walk in with an ubered heavy?
Puni-
*Kirby that day was shredded by the Heavy, who can out-damage, out-tank, and just completely counter pyro*
Honestly, Heavy needs a buff, Scout can wreck pyro, shotguns actually help but you CAN beat a pyro by using some good rockets and juking him out (I have been on BOTH sides of that), Demoman has a loadout to maximize pyro countering (Regular stickies or Quickies, Loose Cannon), Heavy eats Pyro up (But not for breakfast or anything that quick), Engineer can shred a pyro like a sniper, Medic has some tools to help his team against pyro (Putting them out, Uber, Quick Fix for Airblast, Krits to kill the Pyro, fire damage res, crit melee from around a corner), Sniper counters... everything, and Spy is the weakest class in the game but he can still gun a pyro down.
EVERY CLASS has some way to deal with Pyro
You can't just say that Engineer is OP for having a sentry, for example
It's just kind of his thing.
(Also off topic but Wrangler has a counter too, people. The Engineer should be Marked For Death when he uses the Wrangler to tell people this weakness more clearly: RUSH THE ENGINEER AND THE SENTRY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO KILL YOU AS EASILY. Backstab him or something, sheesh. A Spy can literally take out a Wrangler engineer since the Sentry can still be sapped and the engineer can still be stabbed. If you need a Wrangler nerf that badly, nerf switching off of the wrangler and Mark the Engineer For Death when he uses it.)
Now since Scorch Shot will probably be talked about here, I have a stance on that too.
It should only be nerfed in damage.
Annoyance is fine.
Afterburn is fine.
It should not be able to do 50 damage in a single shot to anyone within 3 feet / a Meter of the shot.
Single hit of 20 and Minicrit of 30? Even to Pyro himself?
No thank you.
It needs to do 10 damage. It's fine if it sets people on fire for as long as it does, and the Minicrit should be kept for Knockback. Even the explosion is fine.
Just... give the Detonator the Scorch Shot's damage output and give the Scorch Shot the Detonators damage output.
It shouldn't hit the same person twice with one shot, and it shouldn't do so much damage.
I've hit someone TWICE and they die to Afterburn after just spawning.
That's not fair.
I'd like to charge my Phlog (SS used with Phlog for the Fire damage not the initial explosion) WITHOUT feeling bad every time I hit someone, please.
Also I want the Scorch Shot to work as well as it does now with the Dragon's Fury, so...
I only need the Afterburn anyways.
Idc if it does LESS than the Afterburn does in one tick after it's nerfed, I just want easy fire damage to work with Dragon's Fury.
Pyro is supposed to be a jack of all trades, master of none. With various weapons allowing the pyro to spec in one direction a bit more but never fully becoming strictly a damage or flank or support class(at least not with just one weapon, entire loadouts are different).
DRAGON'S FURY HYPERAGGRESSION
DRAGON'S FURY HYPERAGGRESSION
DRAGON'S FURY HYPERAGGRESSION
DRAGON'S FURY HYPERAGGRESSION
DRAGON'S FURY HYPERAGGRESSION
NO MERCY
I feel like scorch shot should just lose the damn explosion as a whole. If it is still op, remove the double hit. We have the detonator as a splash flare, so a knockback flare is honestly should be a gimmick.
I think pyro's meant to be used for are denial as fire damage is very reliable for that in most games
Ime pyro is most effective as a dedicated babysitter. Pyro is inconsistent at winning 1v1s and team fights but is really scary paired with any other class as they have excellent tools to protect them. Best friend to medic.
Providing defensive fire support is **OBVIOUSLY** the purpose of the class
Just sharing my thoughts here:
I started maining Pyro a while ago and I think that versatility is what makes it so fun for me.
To be honest I don't think I'd play him nearly as much as I do if it wasn't for the Dragon's Fury. It switches Pyro from a jack of all trades to a terrifying offensive push. You can 1v1 heavies consistently and delete light classes in 2 shots. It also rewards actual aiming which is the biggest complaint people have about the class. The airblast is painfully slow and I think that could get a slight buff since I consider the weapon more of a sidegrade.
Pairing the dragon's fury with the detonator and the homewrecker makes you into a really, really valuable asset for your team.
my training to airblast irl to reflect rocket launcher from ATF
The jetpack is actually meant for dive and bail plays. Go mostly up, not horizontal, come down on someone with a puff, a melee, and possibly a stomp, before then jumping away to safety. The goomba stomp on the pyro is actually better than the one on the mantreads in my opinion because flamethrowers won't shred your own health when used point blank following a successful bomb. You do have to know what you are doing, though. The skill floor for using the jetpack and not getting called out by someone or thing you didn't see while using it is fairly high. But tf2 players do have an issue with looking up, so if you manage to corner above their heads and drop on them, you can kill people without them knowing you were coming.
Making it short? Pyro is a defensive team mom based on LazyPurple's deduction. He lacks the mobility for ambushes, doesn't have the range for Frontline pushes, and is unbearably good at Spy checking. Mix that in with the addition of airblast and Py-bro is what I'd say the class is designed for.
Per your request:
As someone who never played TF2 (Or 1)
I feel they're like a berserker class, that deal quite a lot of damage, but quickly die as well.
Edit: I didn't expect them to be a tank. I was kind of right, I guess
I feel that he was made to be the first person in a fight to go and burn target's then die making all of them low health and someone else to take them down all because of his flamethrower but when airblast came it helped him more on the being first in the fight and now requires more skill so that his not only w-m1 and as time went on he became more of jack of all traits being able to support engis by spy checking and getting rid of sappers with his home wrecker and neon weapons and being able to insta kill classes if he flare punch but i think the actual reason he exist is because of spy's and spy didn't come to mind pyro would not exist
Burn everything that moves is the purpose
dragon's fury is crying in the corner for being the most underrated choice for pyro, you didn't even get it a second of spotlight
I do recommend checking out FishStickonaStick’s Rebalance mod. It fixes the Gas Passer (reduced charge time, 35 damage explosion) and Thermal Thruster, and there are plans to buff/change the Third Degree and nerf the Scorch Shot. When the server gets pretty full, I frequently see Pyro being filled to the 3 player class limit, and it’s honestly refreshing to play with some of the changes (including fixed Caber, Buffalo Steak, and Cleaner’s Carbine). Come on by sometime!
Oh god that guy has a balance mod now? is there a website to see the changes? bet over half of them are overcomplicated mess or just awful.
I think a pyro should lean a bit more into a specifice playstyle (damage, defense, support, flank) and switch into a diffrent playstyle when needed allowing him to be very versitile but not a specialist in any role. (like medic specialises in supportive healing and soldier or scout in damage etc)
Very cool visuals!
Pyro feels like a very Jack of all trades class, almost has a janitor vibe about him, like he's a class I feel is built around team play, extinguishing teammates, reflecting incoming projectiles at your combo or engi nest, checking for spies, etc.
I'm really surprised there was no mention of the Dragons Fury. It's pretty good in my opinion, and shifts pyro from a defensive class to a strong offensive class
just add regular crits back to the axtinguisher and im happy, so tired of trying to combo a medic and getting them down to 10 health before dying myself.
Oh boy. Another people who doesn't know the best use of the Thermal Thruster. Either way, good video. Cracked it down right.
don't really feel like the thermal thruster glitch should be a top priority fix and that it is one of the most broken parts of the class. Like you said it is simply too situational. You need to constantly perform the glitch after every single death and you take minicrit damage from certain weapons, like the direct hit and the reserve shooter. Is it a bug? yeah. Is it the most broken part of the class? definitely not
I liek the thruster, I mostly use it when Im on a very high damage close range set, like the Backburner and axe..... but yah detinator is far more well rounded and fits better for like 90% of pyro sets
as for the CB.... I love the butt blast, its got such a minor use but its funny as hell.... it should be kept, I would even love it if they added a fart sound effect when an enemy player gets moved from it XD
combo pyro is too good man combo pyro right now
Purpose of Pyro? Uhh war crimes
Canandian has a vaporean error 404
Pyro is one of the classes that can be all but none. Just like soldier and demo. But in a different way, via using unlocks, all classes have unlocks, but they don't change the play still as much as pyro. Equipping a different weapon forces the player to play a certain way. Most of the other classes have weapons that change, but their role and play style are relatively the same. You could argue that their are subclasses, but honestly I don't think that really counts here. Opinions!!!
Pyro doesn’t have a “set playstyle” due to how flexible the class is.
It can play as support (extinguish team mates, help our engis, spy check)
defensive (reflect rockets/pipes, push back stickies, deny uber pushes -debatable with kritz, both sides are one shot on kill regarding airblast and who is the ubered class-)
or offensive (flare gun, dragons fury, backburner… Phlog isn’t respectable.)
Pyro to me does not have a set playstyle to use as. He is quite literally flexible given how little range he can work with. Quite literally a jack of all trades. But it sucks how he has a reputation within the community.
Pyro is seen as a easy class to master and nothing more than a hinderance or a annoyance if anything. Like the people who try to main pyro like myself doesn’t deserve respect or recognition. When i play the class, i dont try to get praise or such. it gives off this terrible stigma that i should just avoid playing pyro. My actual main is Medic since no one picks him, but i find pyro to be a fun class. I dont use the phlog, scorch shot, whatever. I just use stock with shotgun/flare gun with the powerjack. And i do my best to help the team win as best i can. Where it be extinguishing them, airblasting, or just doing the objective. I wanna be a team player. Not some kind of cancer cell.
idk i would say dealing with spies and dealing damage in some way
what's the pokemon ost in 3:07?
Nice vid btw
check the description, all music used was listed in a google doc
@@UnusualSandwich thanks! Mb for not noticing
I think pyro is a support class because of air blast and others
This is a hot take but I think scorchshot and stuff is fine. Every weapon doesn’t have to be skillful to use.
I like pyro because they can kind of do everything
you got my subscribe... here yah go
I think i'm more confused lol.
You forgot to put the air blast mechanics video in the description...
Look at the Google doc linked, its easier to link everything there
I’d say that pyro is a very “Jack of all trades” class. He can deal an incredible amount of burst damage with his combos and reflects, which is his primary way to fight (which is why he’s in offense) but Pyro does so much more. He can crowd control and hold defensive points like any defense class, and some of his weapons even directly help or synergizes with other classes (home wrecker, neon annihilator). So while Pyro mainly focuses on damage, he has the potential to be a defensive or supportive class with the right weapons and strategy. That’s how I play Pyro anyways
I'd go as far as to say Pyro is the only true jack of all trades.
All other classes lean towards a specific playstyle (tank, pick, support, assault) or lean towards either staying in one spot or moving forward.
Pyro can do all of these jobs except tank damage (and even then airblast exists for some slight healing and making sure you dont take damage to begin with).
There's nothing specific a Pyro can do that a skilled player probably couldn't do better on a different class (except spycheck), but Pyro has access to all the options at the same time.
There’s a reason Pyro is the only Power-Support class
@@victorvirgili4447 bruh what game are u playing its like me sayinh soldier is support because of the banners 😂 or heavy with the sandvich
@@shybandit521 sounds like a generalist class
@@infucktus4899
Yes, that's what I'm saying, he's the most generalist class in the game.
Other generalists lean towards specific goals, like Soldier's very tank-like ability to take higher amounts of damage and keep his team by his side, only heightened by unlocks such as the Black Box, Battalions Backup, and Concherer. You could also look to Demoman's power to clear chokepoints and objectives with his dual primary weapons, and Scout's focus on reaching backlines for both backcapping and flanking using his speed and verticality.
2:24 are we all going to ignore the greatest Market Garden in the history of TF2?
No.
Goddamn nice catch
No
that soldier will be chasing the high he felt in that moment for the rest of his tf2 career
@@dialga236 rare high moment
I main medic/pyro and heavy, having played several seasons in 6s and HL and have atleast 200 hours per class. I think flex/support is pyros area of expertise. Being able to be passive AND aggressive in one go is his main focus. Protect medic, then run off and get picks.
🎉
zamn that editing
Ah hello ShorK
As someone who currently mains pyro and has used every unlock to some extent, I view Pyro as the backbone to any team. While Soldier, Heavy, Demo, and other frontline classes lead the assault, and Engineers and Snipers set themselves up in the back, Pyro is the one class versatile enough to aid both defensively and offensively even with his default kit.
Ignoring unlocks, the default flamethrower can both ward off enemies with flames, and deny projectiles with airblast. And, the shotgun can easily finish off enemies that are out of your flamethrower's range, making sure your teammates can get back to fighting bigger and tougher enemies, and won't need to worry about spies and other classes that may sneak around to break the team.
Including unlocks, this is where Pyro truly shines, as they can begin specializing in certain aspects of that playstyle. Pyro's melee goes from completely useless to game-changing in a matter of seconds with unlocks. The Powerjack allows Pyro to move quicker, making switching between frontline and backline protection easier. But, you can also further specialize with things like the Homewrecker, making protecting engineer nests trivial, but sacrificing potential on offense. The Axtinguisher does a 180 on this, and allows you to shut down light classes on the battlefield, but you lose out on that support that the Homewrecker has.
There are a lot more examples, but those are the easiest to explain and I kinda wanna avoid making this 5000 words long.
Id argue that the homewrecker is kind of unfair against spies, idk why pyro was given the ability to one shot sappers especially when he is a very hard counter for spies
@@shmoking466 I think the Homewrecker trade off is justified like I outlined in the main comment, because you are essentially trading the versatility of the Powerjack or the Backscratcher for a weapon that makes it easier to protect Engineers.
It also doesn't take away the fact that Pyro still can't repair those same damages, so until the Engineer gets back to do so, its essentially permanently damaged.
@@shmoking466I think the home wrecker is one of those “not the ubersaw” where compared to stock, yes it’s better 90% of the time. But when you use the home wrecker you don’t get the power jacks speed, the backscratchers health, the axtinguishers combos, ect. It’s not really about what the weapon’s making you lose, it’s more about what better thing you could use instead.
Someone who used to main pyro chiming in, I always felt like pyro's purpose was a class designed to punish overly aggressive players on both offensive and defensive games, being useful for dealing with light classes and moping up weakened power classes with a combination of chargrilling them or airblasting them into a new quantum realm.
I currently main pyro with the dragon's fury and play aggressively. Also to kill sentries
1:28 I think pyros job is flanking and supporting. Pyro is really bad in an open battlefield, but really good in narrow chokes or in buildings. Also air blasting, spy checking and removing sappers (with jack) sounds like support to me.
I agree.
the power jack doesnt remove sappers the homewreaker does
Pyro is a wild card. That's really what he is.
Great video and editing as always. I'm not sure how the class is *supposed* to be played, but I always find it most effective when I sneak around behind or above the enemy and ambush them outta nowhere. Sure, I usually die in the process, but I always get like 4 or 5 kills. Totally worth it.
I feel like Pyro kind of fills the role of the wild card, he can sometimes be over aggressive, reaching into enemy territory and causing trouble, and other times hang back and help protect other classes especially with their air blast. Pyro can switch between these styles on a dime, meaning it’s hard to predict what he’ll do any situation.
I play pyro switching between these kind of styles depending on the round, and I think the actual character of pyro (from what we know) would probably randomly change up his “strategy” surprising the enemy team
0:40 Why Vaporeon specifically? Could it be that out of all the water type pokemons, the Vaporeon is the most cool? :)
lime diet
doctors orders
Vaporeons suffering from over exposure to artificial based diets and lack of vitamins are usually put on a lime base extract diet due to the high concentration of citric acid which help increase stomachs acid levels back to their natural amounts.
I think it's more due to the fact, that out of all pokemon, Vaporeon belongs to the-
Despite being in the offence class section, I think Pyro's role is defensive-support for both teams. Aside from maybe Heavy and Sniper, Pyros pretty good at punishing those who are too agressive/push without backup. His ability to dected and kill Spies easily, along with his ability to reflect blast based damage and players back from you own team, I think this fits his role as a punisher like character.
what about the dragon's fury + panic attack/reserve shooter combo? wouldn't it turn pyro into a power class, out-damaging soldiers and heavys?
Dected???
@@SimoneBellomonte Lol spelling mistake, will fix
Engineer is more defensive than both tbh.