As someone with previously unmedicated insane anxiety issues, I can say with some certainty it literally does no matter what lie the guy in the second story comes up with. He could formulate the kindest, most reasonable explanation in the world, and it's not going to matter because she's going to immediately assume it's secretly about the sex thing. If it really is one of the biggest fears in her life, nearly everything her partner does is going to be filtered through the expectation that she's ruining the relationship with her inability to have sex. You can't logic your way out of this scenario. The lie only works if this girl is able to accept at face value that this anxiety of her's that is so intense it causes an involuntary bodily response isn't the reason for the break up, and if she was in a good enough place to be able to do that, this whole situation wouldn't be as much of an issue as it apparently is.
Just knowing that it is a problem, it's also a way for her to find a differential kind of help and find a different person, maybe one that doesn't have problems about not having sex with their partner
she's gonna have sex with her new partner, it's not even gonna be an issue. it wasn't an issue for her before, it's not an issue with hookups, it's only an issue with him.
@@cosmosspacecentertelevision That's an assumption with no evidence in the post to support it. I feel like you don't really understand what's going on in this situation or how anxiety works. It's explained in the post why it's an issue for him and not hook ups. She's so afraid of losing her partner due to her inability to perform in bed that an involuntary stress response makes it painful for her to have sex. There's no such stakes in random hook ups. They don't matter beyond that one night together and it's likely she's not even emotionally invested in them so if she "performs badly" it's fine because she never has to see them again.
Absolutely agree, if they have been in this relationship for years with this being the "big scary thing" that they both are trying to work on any other excuse to end the relationship will feel ungenuine. It'd also feel extremely weird that they didn't even aknowledge the problem in the first place! I'd absolutely tell her the truth on why I can't keep going with this relationship, but I'd absolutely reassure her that we could still remain friends and I'd be happy to support her if she wants to pursue other people and I'd reassure her that she'd be able to find the right person with which everything clicks
This is definitely it for me. Like I see Joseph's point but dawg there's no way the guy, WHO EXPLICITELY SAID IN THE POST "I LOVE THIS WOMAN" is going to be able to think of a SEPERATE reason to break up, not in a relationship this long. Like the dealbreaker for him is "I want to have sex with the person I love and not with strangers" how the fuck is he supposed to come up with a lie on why he can't love her anymore?
It is absolutely the opposite: you need to NOT lie because she needs to know. A life with sex is not the only option, she can find an asexual that doesn't need sex and live a fulfilling life anyway, instead of lying, and then she finds herself in the exact same situation again without understanding what is happening.
In the case of the first one, yeah the girlfriend was absolutely cheating on him before they broke up. You don't leave a multi-year relationship and days later stumble into a new one defined by a kink you never shared with your ex, and begin openly and constantly flirting in front of him and his friends. That's just not something people do, and the whiplash he's feeling vs her clearly having instantly moved on only reinforces this.
Was about to say this. I've unfortunately found myself being friends with cheaters before and that's 100% what usually happened with their partners (minus kink stuff). I feel like poster knows it deep down too. Humans are by nature very hesitant to sacrifice everything for nothing. Ending long term relationships like that always happens because they found someone else. Only common exception to this is if their partner is physically, mentally, or emotionally abusive (which poster does not seem like he is)
I feel like this does not matter at all though? like she wasn't happy, she found someone else, they broke up focusing on if she cheated or not for a few days is just weird??
@@kindredclawthorne First off, if you think the cheating was only a few days you clearly don't know how cheaters work. She was probably mentally or physically cheating for months. Cheaters usually don't just do that shit on a whim. If her partner doesn't know about her being unhappy (which it seemed like he didn't) then she's 100% a pretty shitty human being for just leaving and then openly kinks in front of him afterwords makes her a borderline if not outright sociopath Two, this is a relationship of 4+ years. You have to have a lot of gall to cheat on a long term relationship. This isn't a "oh hehe I got bored and moved on" Ngl you defending the likely cheater is pretty ridiculous
Also I’m not about kink shaming except for fetishizing pedophilia specifically. I understand two consenting adults and no one is asking anyone unwilling to participate, but other people are allowed to be uncomfortable with what you enjoy if you’re doing it in public or in your friend group
@@spartan4613 Was she cheating on him? Maybe. And that is very much a dick thing to do. However, the fact that she did break up with him instead of stringing him along until he found out gives her big points over regular cheaters. She's not innocent, but she's not a monster, either. I can very much believe that she found this woman, formed an emotional bond with her over a few months, didn't do anything physical, and then broke up with her boyfriend when she realized that she'd rather be with this woman instead of him. It's still not a great situation, and she messed up. But you have to remember, she's only 21; she's still a kid. Kids make mistakes, and it's entirely unfair to put this situation on the same level as an affair or call her a "sociopath."
Normal White Lie: No Babe, the dress with red flowers is way better than the one with purple flower. MBT White Lie: Sparky went to live on a farm and I coincidentally felt the car needed a cool new bumper.
Gotta say, I appreciate that those posts aren't all going to just be goofy funny hahas. That part about the couple facing a dead bedroom situation lead to a good discussion, I liked it
I’m sorry but for the second scenario, all you are doing is kicking the can down the road for the next person who ends up in a relationship with this woman. Even IF the lie you tell is convincing enough that she doesn’t immediately sus out the real reason for the break up(and that’s a pretty big fucking if), that’s no guarantee that the next guy doesn’t just end up in the same exact cycle. She needs to hear the truth and then she needs a to get help for how to overcome this.
100% this. That's how the lie will be unraveled in the future unless the next guy lies too. The lie does way more harm then good cause it wouldn't even give her the opportunity to explore what she can do to alleviate the issue
Yes you are kicking the can down the road. However, thats assuming she doesn't take time to better herself which feels weird to say considering the context. No mature person leaves a relationship that was otherwise fine and decides to not try work on themselves to push past their anxiety before getting into another relationship. If they do by chance end up in a situation where they could end up in another relationship surely they voice their sex anxiety to their potential partner and if that is a deal breaker it is a lot easier to handle rather than your partner of 4-5? years saying its over because of that problem. Considering she has already taken steps to try move past this anxiety through counselling and opening up her relationship which imo if they aren't already poly is a big commitment on their part to try save their current relationship there is always just the chance that they never get past their anxiety. Going back to finding a new partner point, they can always end up with someone who sex either isn't a big priority or not one at all.
@@ronnoc760that would only work if she believes she can work through it if she believes shes incapable physically she will just believe she's damaged goods which will follow a set path of continued reinforced one sided competition against her where she will fully believe its not possible
I genuinely think ur fucked either way. either u tell her the truth and she gets depressed or u lie and her next partner tells the truth and u get depressed. the only true solution is councelling, theres no other way around it
I think mbt is a little lost in the good guy sauce on this one. His hearts in the right place but its not helpful to lie. At absolute best it just pushes the issue on to the next 1-4 relationships untill someone tells the truth and it all comes down way way harder. Tell the truth now and introduce her to some chill ace people to date. You can find them wherever euro boardgames are sold.
The thing that really gets me with the first one is that to go from four years with a fairly vanilla sounding guy, break up, and then in less than a month end up in a kinky relationship, that sounds to me a lot like she and her new gf were talking during the first relationship. That makes the further interactions feel pretty dishonest, sorta?
Lying to that woman wouldn't solve her hangups about sex. The underlying issue is still there. She needs to work on herself if she wants to have a healthy relationship, and lying to her isn't going to solve anything.
@@trippersigs2248 Doubt she'll believe you if she's so anxious about her issue, you would be making things worse by not being honest with her if you lie
@@trippersigs2248 This isn't protecting or helping the girl in this scenario, though. It's the convenient option for the man to not have to do the difficult thing and be upfront with her. It doesn't address the issue in any meaningful way, and if you argue it's not his responsibility to help her address this issue, then it also stands to reason that protecting her feelings is also not his responsibility, rendering the whole point of lying to her moot. Like, either he is or he isn't responsible for her emotional well being. You can't say you're doing something for "her own good" when that thing is ignoring and lying about a very blatant issue that's going to affect all of her relationships going forward, regardless of whatever lie he comes up with. Are we meant to believe that if she believes this guy's lie, she's going to exit the relationship completely cured of this anxiety? That she's going to be able to move on to a new relationship uninhibited by these issues? This is going to follow her for the rest of her life regardless of whether you lie or tell her the truth, but she might be able to seek help and get treatment sooner if it's addressed sooner and not passed off to the next person she tries to get with who might not handle it as delicately. Lying to her is, in my opinion, misguided at best or actively selfish at worst, because it's the scenario where the man gets to bow out of a difficult situation with the least amount of effort. "Protecting her feelings" feels like an excuse to absolve yourself of any responsibility in a situation you are very intimately involved in because you're no longer willing to put in the effort to help someone you ostensibly care about.
@@trippersigs2248 If he tells her the truth then she will know that this issue caused her relationship to end. She has a chance to do something about it if she knows what the problem is. If he lies to her, she will still speculate that it's for the same reason. It doesn't resolve anything imo and just messes the person up even more mentally because they don't know what tf just happened to them.
If you tell the truth you destroy her self esteem and thus literally worsen the issue. Your best bet i reckon is that after you end it with her, she'll go see a therapist or smthing idk tho
I understand Joseph's opinion on the second one but he's definitely wrong. The woman clearly needs counseling or therapy or something to get over this prohibitive hurdle. Regardless of if you lie, it seems likely she's going to experience this issue again and she either needs to find someone accommodating to her, or find a way to get over the mental hurdle. What a shitty situation though I feel bad for both parties.
The second story is the most uncomfortable and most interesting segment of this podcast yet, it's interesting to see that all the council members have a different response and perspective to a pretty complex situation instead of just agreeing right away on who's on the wrong, great stuff.
Better tell the truth and let her heal then lie and have her doubt you for years of her life. MBT says lying would not be cruel but im my eyes that would be the worst thing you could do to that person.
2nd post: I 100% agree with Jordan and Danny. OP isn’t gonna be a part of the girl’s future relationships so why is it his responsibility to make sure they go well?? Also Joseph’s “just come up with a believable lie” solution really runs the risk of making shit way worse. Cuz let’s say OP sits her down and says the “we’re looking for different things” line, she immediately responds with “it’s because we can’t have sex that’s why you’re breaking up with me.” He doubles down, “no it’s because [insert lie here].” She then argues back “don’t lie to me it’s because we can’t have sex.” This goes on for hours and then we’re left with 2 scenarios: A. OP finally admits yes it’s because they can’t have sex in which case why not just tell her the truth to begin with. Or B. She finally relents that the lie is the reason they’re breaking up but because she obviously has a tendency to overthink and get in her head about stuff she gets in her head about the breakup and what the real reason was and that could potentially poison her future relationships (thus nullifying Joseph’s “it’s your sacred duty” argument) or cause her to give up on relationships as a whole. She clearly has something going on so I think it’s better to be honest with her so that maybe it’ll be a catalyst for her seeking help to resolve whatever’s going on
As someone with a prosthetic leg. Fuck that guy the foot alone if its as expensive as they are mentioning is minimum 5k$. In addition to the time gone into getting the leg part fit and accommodated to your stump size is a pain in the ass.
If I were the woman from the second one, and my partner told me a convincing lie, and I then moved on and got into a relationship where sex became a problem again, I would lose my MIND *so* much worse than if he had taken the time to tell me the truth from the beginning. I would wonder what's wrong with me, I would wonder if he was lying about the reason the first relationship ended, and worse yet, there would be no one on the planet I could have a conversation with this about that would understand me even a fraction of the guy who spent 4 years loving me despite missing a huge chunk of what a relationship meant to him. Joseph is crazy, rip bozo, but damn if this episode ain't the best advertisement for this podcast so far, because his points were at least well thought out and has swayed a decent chunk of the audience, it really got me using my noggin to dig deep into my own values to articulate why Joseph was smoking so much weed. I'm looking forward to the next one of these serious discussions though I wouldn't mind sitting through 5 more episodes of Jordan getting off to breast milk until we get another
Yeah, no, honesty is definitely the best policy when it comes to break ups. Even if you don't want the person's fears to be realized, it is better in the long run if those fears are realized. If those anxieties don't get resolved now, then they won't be resolved in the next relationship they have, and they are going to have the same issues in the next relationship.
my thoughts on that second post: realistically, both options suck and the girl will not escape her anxiety and it will hurt. Yet i will say that the sentiment behind josephs position was the kinder one. The man is fully aware what telling his partner the truth will do to her, what damage it will cause. Justifying it by saying that it isnt his responsibility is hearless, justifying it by saying that you should just be truthful because you should be truthful is just meaningless. The lie is a desperate attempt to somewhat ease the damage. Its completely selfless, there is a will for things to end better than they will. Ultimately the situation is tragic and no one can truly tell which option will have the better fallout, it depends too heavily on both the individuals involved aswell as future developments. I do think joseph didnt consider enough how the lie could not work but i also do think that danny and peeps were too detached from the amount of awareness that the poster would have had about the consequences telling the truth will have and the amount they care about that (otherwise the post wouldnt exist).
Theres just one thing with Josephs opinion on the second case: DO YOU THINK SHES STUPID OR SOMETHING?In what world would she believe that he suddenly break up with her,after a history of a BIG problem in their relationship,for some completely unrelated reason?Im sorry Joseph,but this just isn't it.
This one was a good episode. Middle funny to real at the start. Hard on in the middle to chunk on. Final one lighthearted and made me crack up. Keep up the good work guys
Listened to this at work and the transition from very serious discussions about real issues to Everything About And Around The Last Question gave me such powerful whiplash I almost threw up from laughing. Another banger episode!
This episode is was way better than last weeks because the topics can be argued instead of just discussed like last week or the 1st week of the podcast.
Lying is also really not the way here. If you want her to live a fulfilling life, you need to believe that she will take this event and use it to work through her shit and live in a healthier way
I think you need to tell the truth for #2. Either you lie, it doesn't work, and she knows it's about the sex thing and you lied - or she never finds out and there's something ELSE she's now worrying about for relationships. Saying "it's not you, it's me" probably wont help for someone with this severe anxiety.
Im sorry, but Joseph is correct in the second one, and he won me with his points. Not saying Danny and Jordan are assholes or 100% wrong. I can see where they're coming from, but *I* dont want her to ruin her f*cking life.
But both are going to ruin her life. If you lie, she's going to know why the breakup actually happened and it's still going to crush her either way. With how bad her anxiety is about this, she's going to think, no matter what lie you tell her, that she was broken up with because of the sex anxiety. She is going to be broken in both scenarios. At least with telling the truth, she can work through the anxiety and learn from that relationship and hopefully with her next partner can be fully open about her anxiety and have a supportive partner through this
This is best episode yet. I like to think of lying to save someone like "The Importance of Being Ernest", in the sense that is saying a lie to save someones feelings that bad? I dont think so but man i feel bad for that couple.
woohoo new episode! also for gods sake please put the nice art in the thumbnail in the video too, like why is the low quality title graphic the video image like pls its not that hard
No shot you lie to her. No shot. Their relationship is built on honesty, he established that, you have an *equal* obligation to be honest to her as you do to save her feelings. You obviously don't say "I'm leaving you because we can't have sex", but you *cannot* lie to her it will not fly, there is no chance she doesn't see through it.
Literally don’t let Joseph hypothesize his way into making y’all believe lying in the second one is the right option. That poor woman is just gonna have to be let down by an all new person and then live with the pain of deceit. Also once you’re no longer dating, that other persons intimate, in this case- SEXUAL problems aren’t your responsibility. You can lend an ear if they haven’t worked through their trouble but no longer being in a relationship relinquishes some of those responsibilities. Doesn’t mean they’re dead to you
MBT I feel strongly that you were correct about the second one. So many of the arguments the others were saying felt very self focused, thinks like “I have to tell the truth”, “I couldn’t live with myself”, “I have no obligation to lie”. Bro, what about her? Why are you so focused on what you want and need when the whole point of to minimize the chance that the breakup screws her up for life? The best argument that the comments brought up is that there’s no way she won’t think that was secretly the reason even if he doesn’t say it. That kind of paranoia about it may just make her symptoms worse the same way telling the truth would.
4 YEARS?? How have they not thought in 4 years "dang maybe we should medicate this anxiety." Go get a vallium script, or hell just plan to get drunk for intimacy. Goodness.
Also just feel strongly about this one, but honestly the hard hitting truth of hearing "us not being able to be intimate is the deal breaker" will (hopefully) help her realize the gravity of the situation before she commits to another long term relationship, and she'll stay casual, find someone who doesn't need that, or get help to work through her performance anxieties. It's not cruel to say that someone needs to work on themselves if they already knew they needed to work on themselves and have failed to do so in an appropriate manner for 4 YEARS.
So I get the "the only way to not be cruel is lie", but based on the information we have - if you live years of your life this far in your head about it - there is literally no possible story she doesn't immediately jump to "you're lying it's the sex stuff "
I'm so glad we got an episode with a prompt that ended in a 2-1 decision so we could see who really is the most insane person of the three. Spoilers: It's Joseph. Joseph is the insane one
Call me parasocial, but one of my favorite things to do with this podcast is to pause right before the first take is given. Then, I give my take and reasoning out loud to myself and resume the video after I'm done. It's silly, but fun
Heres a different opinion for the 2nd topic: Instead of breaking up with the woman, he should encourage her to go to therapy, not the sex therapy he has mentioned in the post, normal therapy since she seems to have huge anxiety issues. Let a psychiatrist talk with her about her fears and take medication. As someone who has anxiety issues, medication and therapy really helped calming down in trigger situations. Once the medication kicks in and therapy seems to work, take it slowly, kissing, cuddling, physical non-sexual contact and once you want to be truly intimate again, use a fckton of lube and maybe some scented candles, anything that relaxes her and makes a potential cramping less painful
Tbh do not spend any more time on this woman. It sucks for her absolutely, but no one should have to deal with this from their partner. Do not let her get in the way of you finding a fulfilling relationship while she deals with her issues.
On the milk there was something I don't think they went into enough. The father in law finishes peoples food? Like, just by default? He doesn't ask or anything? The hell? Sure, I can understand if they're picking up their plate to throw away or something, but the baby has a bowl of partially finished cereal and he just noms it? I assume the mom isn't giving the baby twice the cereal they eat or some such. The baby can't say no! I guess the baby can just go hungry or the mom just needs to make more cereal. You know what I think? I think the mom wanted this to happen in the same way someone that works in an office with a food thief might bring super spicy food in one day.
No I have to disagree with MBT on the second one. You have to tell the truth, both out of respect for your partner and to hopefully encourage them to further seek help in resolving the issue. It doesn’t seem to be a diagnosed health issue, so being told by someone who cares about you deeply is easier than maybe the next person straight up throwing it in their face.
People say “if you don’t lie the truth will ruin her life forever”; lying is just passing on the burden of truth to the next person. If you truly cared about this person, would you rather deliver this devastating news yourself and hope to try and leave them in a position where they can face their fear and resolve it, or leave it up to the next guy potentially being an asshole about it?
The tricky thing with the no sex relationship argument is both sides are fundamentally flawed in their approaches, I feel. Joseph has the right sentiments and objectives in mind of trying to make sure that the partner does not feel like all of their worst fears are coming true, but lying is the wrong way to get that across. On the opposite side, yes while you should be open and honest with your partner ESPECIALLY if it is something worth ending a relationship over, it is ignorant of your responsibility as someone who CARES about the other person (whether you continue to date them or not) to try and help them move through this issue that they have. What ought be done is the person approaches their partner and explains that while yes, the fact that they cannot be physically intimate is the deal-breaker here, it is not the "inability to satisfy" in and of itself that is the issue. If a person wants someone they can be physically intimate with, and truly does love that person outside of that, then theoretically the act in and of itself would be all that is necessary to find fulfillment. If that is not the case, then it's not right for either of them, and they owe it to each other to give one another the space to grow and find someone else they are more comfortable with. You cannot just cut them loose and say "it's not my problem" anymore, and I think that opinion mainly stems from the fact that people who have it are not in the relationship and thus do not have any in-born attachment to the people in question. TL;DR: Yes, you should tell the truth, but you really need to spend actual time talking this through with them and not just cut them loose, and you should frame it as "it's not you, it's us."
Yeah Joseph, sorry, bad take on the second one. Let’s say you lie and everything goes well, then what? The girl is going to go into another relationship thinking she did nothing to make her partner upset, and she’s just gonna let it all happen again! You’re letting history repeat itself here! Shaking my smh
Re: “breakup:” MBT is just flat wrong about this one. How can allowing someone to perpetuate this deep-seated psychological problem by burying it be “kinder” to them? If this woman has any chance of getting over this in the future, it involves confronting it and finding the courage to face it head on. Ignoring it hasn’t worked for the whole relationship. If you’re kind and considerate, who’s to say that her next relationship, or short fling will be just as kind? If you truly care about this person, why would you kick the can down the road and allow a completely unknown person to break the news? You have to be honest. You’re allowed to have requirements for a relationship and if they are not working or can’t change no matter how hard you try it’s time to end the relationship. That being said, getting over it isn’t necessarily the only option. It is a stereotype that everyone needs sex to have a fulfilling relationship. If this is gonna be a serious problem for her, it needs to be part of the relationship expectation/boundary negotiation. You can always find someone compatible with you. They exist. Some people don’t want or are repulsed by sex. Some people would be fine with an open relationship. Some people want but don’t need it. There are myriad options beyond this relationship, but clearly they have exhausted all available options and it has not worked and her future cannot include him as it stands. Edit: there’s also a non-zero chance her strong anxiety around this issue will cause her to not only draw the right conclusion for the wrong reasons, but also believe you had to lie about it (because you did). This would be a much worse outcome. No matter how expert you are at lying there’s no way you can prevent the possibility of this outcome, which will cause even more damage than the truth.
Joseph is completely wrong. Lying will not help her at all. Lying will arguably make it worse for her. She's got extreme sex anxiety, if she somehow believes the lie, how is this helping her. If you are truthful, this can give her the reason for the breakup and something to work through with therapy. This can be something to bring up to her next partner, explaining her anxiety and they can find a way to work through it. Maybe it can be done by finding someone who might not care about sex and it isnt an issue for them. I kinda wish Jillian was here because she would probably be the voice of reason. It just seems like such a man take to have to be like, "just lie to her, its better to lie"
@@gamermancrygamer9461 this could be a forever thing tho. There's some anxieties that just linger and will constantly stay with you indefinitely. Like it can come back again. I think she could get back into a relationship after sometime working through a lot of stuff. I'm also not saying she should get into a relationship IMMEDIATELY after the breakup. But once she's ready to start dating again, it could be something to bring up with a partner to be truthful about and find a way to potentially work with them on it.
The thing that makes MBT’s take on the second story such an L is that he’s working under the assumption that she will be fucked up forever. Like, yeah they tried to help her and failed but this idea that she is forever broken and can never be helped is so demeaning and reduces her to just her failure and nothing more
@@Hacknerdsexactly! I think Danny actually understands how anxiety works here and knows that lying to a person with severe anxiety, no matter how specific it is, will hurt more in the long run. If the relationship was good besides that one thing, she's gonna be like, "what if it was actually from the sex anxiety" and that will eat away at her. If he is truthful with her, it will hurt, but she can work through it 100% knowing that's how why it ended.
Yeah that's kinda something I somewhat thought about. If she gets told the truth, maybe this could help her understand that the anxiety could be something in the asexual spectrum. Like if she knows that's the reason, this could lead her to realizing that maybe sex doesn't work with people she truly loves and could lead her to be in a relationship with an asexual person who would be happy with no sex. If she wants hookups, she can talk to her partner about having an open relationship to help with that specific want of hers.
The second story has a really easy solution. He should tell her the truth and break up, but insist on maintaining a close friendship afterward and use that as an opportunity to have no-pressure hook-up's with each other with the hopes that can lead to getting back together with the sex anxiety issue solved
I dont think mbt or danny are wrong in this scenario. its just a lose lose situation and anything he says will must likley fuck her up, sooner or later down the road with another partner. theres no one solution that can fix this but therapy sessions can help lessen the burden. i can see both sides of the story but I think the best way would be to lie a little but still keep most of the truth intact. imma be honest i honestly wouldnt know what to do in this scenario and i'd feel guilty either way. rip
You can bring up every single thing possible as a lie and no matter what if you've been with them this long you tell the truth. Ie let's say you bring up money or something they WILL think "we've never really had that as a problem before, and we've worked through other things. Why couldn't we talk over this is if it was THAT serious to where you'd want to call it off". Like that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard lol, you don't HAVE to be the devil's advocate every time for the sake of it Joseph. If you've gone through this much stuff with someone why would you ever just lie to them? Acceptance over flaws is how you grow as a person, if you lie then you are, as Danny said, giving them MORE THINGS TO SCRUTINIZE THEMSELVES WITH. You're also blowing said things out of proportion in lying about something irrelevant. Furthermore! You are NOT letting them grow as a person!! Why would you ever put that on someone and say in your mind "this is for your benefit". Let THEM decide that. It's not hard. It's their life, if they are the problem for better or worse they can't do anything to try and improve themselves by giving them a fake problem in addition to the other thing. Sometimes you DO have to hurt someone short term for them betterment of their psyche long term. No one wants a sycophant Yes Man who just says whatever someone wants to make them feel good. I say this having been in a relationship for 7 years and we've had hard times in the middle, times where we've even broken it off and when we did it was because there was an elephant in the room and I didn't want to acknowledge it, and meanwhile SHE kept giving me BS answers when I asked what the problem was on her end. So we're both not doing ourselves any favors, I'm telling you this isn't the way. When we were honest, it sucked, it hurt, but you know what, here we are living together still. Miss me with that lying shit.
For the second scenario, the girl probably isn't asexual, but it's worth thinking of it from a scenario of how you deal when an asexual person dates an allosexual person. Which is to say, if both their needs aren't being met then it would be best to end the scenario and move on amicably. TBH, the girl should probably find an ace person to date.
For the first story while it's never stated that any of the friends have told the new couple they are uncomfortable doing sexual things in front of others who are uncomfortable with it is actually just sexual harassment. It is not kink shaming to say that maybe some behavior is in fact not OK for board game night and maybe you should keep the role play for when you are alone.
yeah i was thinking this a lot, as someone who engages in pretty similar stuff. engaging in fetish stuff around people who haven't consented is never ok
what the fuck are you ON about joseph??? theres literally no reason to pass the buck like that and hope her next relationship ends up better by luck. acting like its some problem the girl can never figure out without being coddled is just super unproductive. just because people break up doesnt mean theyre going to immediately cut off all contact with each other and curse each other's names like, it feels like you're thinking like the woman has no agency in this situation and can never act like a mature adult.
To not lie about the sex thing is the fucking craziest thing in the world. MBT has never spoken more truth in succession than he has had during that entire segment.
I've watched MBT streams so I know the pod's naming origin--this is a DOG SHIT NAME, NO NEW LISTENERS WILL GET IT CAUSE THIS SHIT SOUNDS LIKE A DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS PREMISE That said: yeah, your 20's is a period of HEAVY growth to the point you NEED to take it in mind if you're locking into a long term relationship at that time
Huh... I never liked Taylor Swift. But I'm angry old man who likes heavy metal, industrial and grunge. The first one: so what... The guy is just supposed to lose his friend group too? Especially after he gets a major relationship broken, he's gonna need support. why is it on him to remove himself from the environment?
THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING THE WHOLE TIME! Like they're saying "dude who has been in a relationship for 4 years should cut himself off from his entire support network because his ex can't stop publicly kinking at friend get-togethers"
The third solution to the second question: Just stay in the relationship and be miserable! You still get a relationship, you still get to smash (someone else) and you avoid hurting her feelings. It's like the best possible solution for everyone (except you)
bro danny and jordan got L takes on the second one😭 telling the truth to that girl can and WILL fr fuck her up FOREVER. “it’s not his responsibility” yeah but this guy still loves her? he doesn’t need to bend over backwards and forever deal with the lack of sex but like.. can he not give her the smallest bit of human decency and just lie a LITTLE?? i just think a lie would save this girl from spiraling. joseph slayed this episode.
Idk, I have to agree with Danny. If the lie gets found out then that's even worse, and to add, if the lie is not convincing enough, she will have doubts and will wonder for the rest of her life "was it actually my lack of sex drive and he was trying to protect me?" idk this one is complicated. When Joseph said that it would ruin her chance of getting a relationship in the future all I could think was that lying to her wont help, it'll just make those relationships have to deal with it in the future. I don't even know which is worse either, like I think Joseph still has a point because bad relationships will be better than no relationships but, yeah this one is a lot and I feel bad for the girl and the guy.
This assumes she's capable of believing any lie you give her. That she can set aside this debilitating anxiety of hers to believe that the thing she fears the most isn't happening for the reason she automatically assumes it's going to be about. Anxiety isn't exactly logical.
@@Hacknerds if she doesn’t believe you it’s a whole another thing. i just think that in my anxiety filled mind i’d rather someone lie about this one thing for me. but i do understand what would be good for me might not be best for everyone
@@ryanbacker4870 yeah this whole situation sucks all around. i think that if it had to happen to me though id rather them blame our futures than the one thing i was insanely worried about. there is so much to this, i just think if they blame the futures it would be something a lot easier to digest on surface level.
I'm against Joseph on this point. I think his take doesn't put into account that she'll most likely figure out either way that her relationship was ended because of her sexual anxieties. Being lied to would hurt so much more than telling the truth. I think if you tell the truth, there's a way to work through it in maybe therapy about ways to deal with this anxiety. I think if you are open and honest too, she could explain to her next partner her sexual anxieties and they can work through it together. I think communication and honesty is the most important thing in a relationship and in a breakup
I'm 100% in joseph's side on the second story, even if she finds out (witch is very likely) you still did you're best to make her feel as good as possible, and like you do have a responsability to the people in you're life to at least try to make them happy, in this case there's no happy outcome, but the lie is the only one with the chance to not be as bad, and I can't understand telling the true, as far as I see it it's a very cruel thing to do, even if you don't feel good about lying that is not about you're hapiness, it's about not making life even shittier for her, you are doing this for you're hapiness, I think you have the obligation to try and make this less bad for her
I came to this comment section straight from Spotify just about when the second one finished. I think Danny and Peeps are absolutely insane and out of their mind if they think they can get away with telling the truth and not live with the guilt of having knowingly destroyed the future sentimental life of the other person. Joseph is so right here, you HAVE TO LIE, there’s no way around. You can’t salvage your past and your present with this person, but you can maybe put a band-aid on their future and get away safely, sure you’ll have to commit a lot for this to work, but that’s just what you do for someone you care a lot about.
As someone with previously unmedicated insane anxiety issues, I can say with some certainty it literally does no matter what lie the guy in the second story comes up with. He could formulate the kindest, most reasonable explanation in the world, and it's not going to matter because she's going to immediately assume it's secretly about the sex thing. If it really is one of the biggest fears in her life, nearly everything her partner does is going to be filtered through the expectation that she's ruining the relationship with her inability to have sex. You can't logic your way out of this scenario. The lie only works if this girl is able to accept at face value that this anxiety of her's that is so intense it causes an involuntary bodily response isn't the reason for the break up, and if she was in a good enough place to be able to do that, this whole situation wouldn't be as much of an issue as it apparently is.
Yeah I'm with Danny and Jordan on this one. White lies can be necessary sometimes, but this is an instance where it absolutely is NOT.
Just knowing that it is a problem, it's also a way for her to find a differential kind of help and find a different person, maybe one that doesn't have problems about not having sex with their partner
she's gonna have sex with her new partner, it's not even gonna be an issue. it wasn't an issue for her before, it's not an issue with hookups, it's only an issue with him.
@@cosmosspacecentertelevision That's an assumption with no evidence in the post to support it. I feel like you don't really understand what's going on in this situation or how anxiety works. It's explained in the post why it's an issue for him and not hook ups. She's so afraid of losing her partner due to her inability to perform in bed that an involuntary stress response makes it painful for her to have sex. There's no such stakes in random hook ups. They don't matter beyond that one night together and it's likely she's not even emotionally invested in them so if she "performs badly" it's fine because she never has to see them again.
Absolutely agree, if they have been in this relationship for years with this being the "big scary thing" that they both are trying to work on any other excuse to end the relationship will feel ungenuine.
It'd also feel extremely weird that they didn't even aknowledge the problem in the first place! I'd absolutely tell her the truth on why I can't keep going with this relationship, but I'd absolutely reassure her that we could still remain friends and I'd be happy to support her if she wants to pursue other people and I'd reassure her that she'd be able to find the right person with which everything clicks
Leave it to a theater kid to think any random person could act out a believable lie well enough to fool their long time partner
This is definitely it for me. Like I see Joseph's point but dawg there's no way the guy, WHO EXPLICITELY SAID IN THE POST "I LOVE THIS WOMAN" is going to be able to think of a SEPERATE reason to break up, not in a relationship this long. Like the dealbreaker for him is "I want to have sex with the person I love and not with strangers" how the fuck is he supposed to come up with a lie on why he can't love her anymore?
Me yelling at Joseph during the 2nd one like a straight person watching their football team losing.
God I know the episode is gonna be good when I can't stop myself from going, out loud, "Shut up Joeseph"
It is absolutely the opposite: you need to NOT lie because she needs to know. A life with sex is not the only option, she can find an asexual that doesn't need sex and live a fulfilling life anyway, instead of lying, and then she finds herself in the exact same situation again without understanding what is happening.
In the case of the first one, yeah the girlfriend was absolutely cheating on him before they broke up. You don't leave a multi-year relationship and days later stumble into a new one defined by a kink you never shared with your ex, and begin openly and constantly flirting in front of him and his friends. That's just not something people do, and the whiplash he's feeling vs her clearly having instantly moved on only reinforces this.
Was about to say this. I've unfortunately found myself being friends with cheaters before and that's 100% what usually happened with their partners (minus kink stuff). I feel like poster knows it deep down too.
Humans are by nature very hesitant to sacrifice everything for nothing. Ending long term relationships like that always happens because they found someone else. Only common exception to this is if their partner is physically, mentally, or emotionally abusive (which poster does not seem like he is)
I feel like this does not matter at all though?
like she wasn't happy, she found someone else, they broke up
focusing on if she cheated or not for a few days is just weird??
@@kindredclawthorne First off, if you think the cheating was only a few days you clearly don't know how cheaters work. She was probably mentally or physically cheating for months. Cheaters usually don't just do that shit on a whim. If her partner doesn't know about her being unhappy (which it seemed like he didn't) then she's 100% a pretty shitty human being for just leaving and then openly kinks in front of him afterwords makes her a borderline if not outright sociopath
Two, this is a relationship of 4+ years. You have to have a lot of gall to cheat on a long term relationship. This isn't a "oh hehe I got bored and moved on"
Ngl you defending the likely cheater is pretty ridiculous
Also I’m not about kink shaming except for fetishizing pedophilia specifically. I understand two consenting adults and no one is asking anyone unwilling to participate, but other people are allowed to be uncomfortable with what you enjoy if you’re doing it in public or in your friend group
@@spartan4613 Was she cheating on him? Maybe. And that is very much a dick thing to do. However, the fact that she did break up with him instead of stringing him along until he found out gives her big points over regular cheaters. She's not innocent, but she's not a monster, either. I can very much believe that she found this woman, formed an emotional bond with her over a few months, didn't do anything physical, and then broke up with her boyfriend when she realized that she'd rather be with this woman instead of him. It's still not a great situation, and she messed up. But you have to remember, she's only 21; she's still a kid. Kids make mistakes, and it's entirely unfair to put this situation on the same level as an affair or call her a "sociopath."
DDLG stands for Doki Doki Literature Glub
the last one is like an arrested development plot
Normal White Lie: No Babe, the dress with red flowers is way better than the one with purple flower.
MBT White Lie: Sparky went to live on a farm and I coincidentally felt the car needed a cool new bumper.
Gotta say, I appreciate that those posts aren't all going to just be goofy funny hahas. That part about the couple facing a dead bedroom situation lead to a good discussion, I liked it
I’m sorry but for the second scenario, all you are doing is kicking the can down the road for the next person who ends up in a relationship with this woman. Even IF the lie you tell is convincing enough that she doesn’t immediately sus out the real reason for the break up(and that’s a pretty big fucking if), that’s no guarantee that the next guy doesn’t just end up in the same exact cycle. She needs to hear the truth and then she needs a to get help for how to overcome this.
100% this. That's how the lie will be unraveled in the future unless the next guy lies too. The lie does way more harm then good cause it wouldn't even give her the opportunity to explore what she can do to alleviate the issue
Yes you are kicking the can down the road. However, thats assuming she doesn't take time to better herself which feels weird to say considering the context. No mature person leaves a relationship that was otherwise fine and decides to not try work on themselves to push past their anxiety before getting into another relationship. If they do by chance end up in a situation where they could end up in another relationship surely they voice their sex anxiety to their potential partner and if that is a deal breaker it is a lot easier to handle rather than your partner of 4-5? years saying its over because of that problem. Considering she has already taken steps to try move past this anxiety through counselling and opening up her relationship which imo if they aren't already poly is a big commitment on their part to try save their current relationship there is always just the chance that they never get past their anxiety. Going back to finding a new partner point, they can always end up with someone who sex either isn't a big priority or not one at all.
And if its so much in her head that she might shutdown in getting in relationships
@@ronnoc760that would only work if she believes she can work through it if she believes shes incapable physically she will just believe she's damaged goods which will follow a set path of continued reinforced one sided competition against her where she will fully believe its not possible
I genuinely think ur fucked either way. either u tell her the truth and she gets depressed or u lie and her next partner tells the truth and u get depressed. the only true solution is councelling, theres no other way around it
I think mbt is a little lost in the good guy sauce on this one. His hearts in the right place but its not helpful to lie. At absolute best it just pushes the issue on to the next 1-4 relationships untill someone tells the truth and it all comes down way way harder. Tell the truth now and introduce her to some chill ace people to date. You can find them wherever euro boardgames are sold.
It took me a second to realize MBT didn't actually buy them chairs
Joseph's having a toilet at the bottom really gave it away
He DIDN'T?! WHAT!
how did i miss this podcast hearing joseph say to danny "You know what? You're acting like a little girl" while talking about ddlg is pure comedy
The thing that really gets me with the first one is that to go from four years with a fairly vanilla sounding guy, break up, and then in less than a month end up in a kinky relationship, that sounds to me a lot like she and her new gf were talking during the first relationship. That makes the further interactions feel pretty dishonest, sorta?
Lying to that woman wouldn't solve her hangups about sex. The underlying issue is still there. She needs to work on herself if she wants to have a healthy relationship, and lying to her isn't going to solve anything.
The point of lying is not to solve the issue. It's to try and spare the feelings of someone you care about.
@@trippersigs2248 Doubt she'll believe you if she's so anxious about her issue, you would be making things worse by not being honest with her if you lie
@@trippersigs2248 This isn't protecting or helping the girl in this scenario, though. It's the convenient option for the man to not have to do the difficult thing and be upfront with her. It doesn't address the issue in any meaningful way, and if you argue it's not his responsibility to help her address this issue, then it also stands to reason that protecting her feelings is also not his responsibility, rendering the whole point of lying to her moot. Like, either he is or he isn't responsible for her emotional well being. You can't say you're doing something for "her own good" when that thing is ignoring and lying about a very blatant issue that's going to affect all of her relationships going forward, regardless of whatever lie he comes up with. Are we meant to believe that if she believes this guy's lie, she's going to exit the relationship completely cured of this anxiety? That she's going to be able to move on to a new relationship uninhibited by these issues? This is going to follow her for the rest of her life regardless of whether you lie or tell her the truth, but she might be able to seek help and get treatment sooner if it's addressed sooner and not passed off to the next person she tries to get with who might not handle it as delicately. Lying to her is, in my opinion, misguided at best or actively selfish at worst, because it's the scenario where the man gets to bow out of a difficult situation with the least amount of effort. "Protecting her feelings" feels like an excuse to absolve yourself of any responsibility in a situation you are very intimately involved in because you're no longer willing to put in the effort to help someone you ostensibly care about.
@@trippersigs2248 If he tells her the truth then she will know that this issue caused her relationship to end. She has a chance to do something about it if she knows what the problem is. If he lies to her, she will still speculate that it's for the same reason. It doesn't resolve anything imo and just messes the person up even more mentally because they don't know what tf just happened to them.
If you tell the truth you destroy her self esteem and thus literally worsen the issue. Your best bet i reckon is that after you end it with her, she'll go see a therapist or smthing idk tho
I understand Joseph's opinion on the second one but he's definitely wrong. The woman clearly needs counseling or therapy or something to get over this prohibitive hurdle. Regardless of if you lie, it seems likely she's going to experience this issue again and she either needs to find someone accommodating to her, or find a way to get over the mental hurdle. What a shitty situation though I feel bad for both parties.
The artificial leg is SO FCKING FUNNY. It's almost the same thing as the Mask demaque case in ace attorney 2. Reality truly be weirder than fiction.
The second story is the most uncomfortable and most interesting segment of this podcast yet, it's interesting to see that all the council members have a different response and perspective to a pretty complex situation instead of just agreeing right away on who's on the wrong, great stuff.
Better tell the truth and let her heal then lie and have her doubt you for years of her life. MBT says lying would not be cruel but im my eyes that would be the worst thing you could do to that person.
"Asshole doesn't have a one-size-fits-all" - Peeps "Jordan" YGO
This is easily the best episode yet
God these are so GOOD I wish these came out twice a week and were like 8 hours long
This podcast is definitely at its best in stories like the second one where you guys actively disagree
Agreed, I want like 8 hours of that
2nd post: I 100% agree with Jordan and Danny. OP isn’t gonna be a part of the girl’s future relationships so why is it his responsibility to make sure they go well??
Also Joseph’s “just come up with a believable lie” solution really runs the risk of making shit way worse. Cuz let’s say OP sits her down and says the “we’re looking for different things” line, she immediately responds with “it’s because we can’t have sex that’s why you’re breaking up with me.” He doubles down, “no it’s because [insert lie here].” She then argues back “don’t lie to me it’s because we can’t have sex.” This goes on for hours and then we’re left with 2 scenarios: A. OP finally admits yes it’s because they can’t have sex in which case why not just tell her the truth to begin with. Or B. She finally relents that the lie is the reason they’re breaking up but because she obviously has a tendency to overthink and get in her head about stuff she gets in her head about the breakup and what the real reason was and that could potentially poison her future relationships (thus nullifying Joseph’s “it’s your sacred duty” argument) or cause her to give up on relationships as a whole. She clearly has something going on so I think it’s better to be honest with her so that maybe it’ll be a catalyst for her seeking help to resolve whatever’s going on
As someone with a prosthetic leg. Fuck that guy the foot alone if its as expensive as they are mentioning is minimum 5k$. In addition to the time gone into getting the leg part fit and accommodated to your stump size is a pain in the ass.
If I were the woman from the second one, and my partner told me a convincing lie, and I then moved on and got into a relationship where sex became a problem again, I would lose my MIND *so* much worse than if he had taken the time to tell me the truth from the beginning. I would wonder what's wrong with me, I would wonder if he was lying about the reason the first relationship ended, and worse yet, there would be no one on the planet I could have a conversation with this about that would understand me even a fraction of the guy who spent 4 years loving me despite missing a huge chunk of what a relationship meant to him.
Joseph is crazy, rip bozo, but damn if this episode ain't the best advertisement for this podcast so far, because his points were at least well thought out and has swayed a decent chunk of the audience, it really got me using my noggin to dig deep into my own values to articulate why Joseph was smoking so much weed. I'm looking forward to the next one of these serious discussions though I wouldn't mind sitting through 5 more episodes of Jordan getting off to breast milk until we get another
The whiplash of going from a serious debate about honesty in relationships to “my in-law drank my breast milk lmao” is really jarring
Yeah, no, honesty is definitely the best policy when it comes to break ups. Even if you don't want the person's fears to be realized, it is better in the long run if those fears are realized. If those anxieties don't get resolved now, then they won't be resolved in the next relationship they have, and they are going to have the same issues in the next relationship.
my thoughts on that second post:
realistically, both options suck and the girl will not escape her anxiety and it will hurt.
Yet i will say that the sentiment behind josephs position was the kinder one.
The man is fully aware what telling his partner the truth will do to her, what damage it will cause. Justifying it by saying that it isnt his responsibility is hearless, justifying it by saying that you should just be truthful because you should be truthful is just meaningless.
The lie is a desperate attempt to somewhat ease the damage. Its completely selfless, there is a will for things to end better than they will. Ultimately the situation is tragic and no one can truly tell which option will have the better fallout, it depends too heavily on both the individuals involved aswell as future developments.
I do think joseph didnt consider enough how the lie could not work but i also do think that danny and peeps were too detached from the amount of awareness that the poster would have had about the consequences telling the truth will have and the amount they care about that (otherwise the post wouldnt exist).
Hold ip, mbt is so missing a huge thing on the second one. She can find out about the lie BECAUSE they're is a huge reddit post about it!
Theres just one thing with Josephs opinion on the second case: DO YOU THINK SHES STUPID OR SOMETHING?In what world would she believe that he suddenly break up with her,after a history of a BIG problem in their relationship,for some completely unrelated reason?Im sorry Joseph,but this just isn't it.
This one was a good episode. Middle funny to real at the start. Hard on in the middle to chunk on. Final one lighthearted and made me crack up. Keep up the good work guys
Joseph is apparently the kind of person who'd leave Neo in the Matrix cause he's superficially happier that way
Listened to this at work and the transition from very serious discussions about real issues to Everything About And Around The Last Question gave me such powerful whiplash I almost threw up from laughing.
Another banger episode!
How do these get better every episode?
Thank god a new episode came out today, I wasn’t prepared to confront my schizophrenia just yet.
A lot of interesting takes as always Perchance.
1. Correct
2. Correct (Joseph is wrong)
3. Correct
see ya next time :)
This episode is was way better than last weeks because the topics can be argued instead of just discussed like last week or the 1st week of the podcast.
>If you're gonna sit down and think about the lie, why not just sit down and think about the truth
BARS🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
im all in for more deep one, just not too often cuz this one was so hard to hear about
It is entirely possible the gf in the second story is asexual, which is why added pressure only creates anxiety and frustration.
Lying is also really not the way here. If you want her to live a fulfilling life, you need to believe that she will take this event and use it to work through her shit and live in a healthier way
I am 100% with joseph on the 2nd point honestly. I hope we get more stories like that too that really split everyone and have more discussion tbh
This is like Socrates versus Aristotle level dialogue except we’re talking about dommy mommies.
Between Jordan in the first story and Joseph in the second, i’ve come to the conclusion that i cannot watch this podcast anymore.
I think you need to tell the truth for #2. Either you lie, it doesn't work, and she knows it's about the sex thing and you lied - or she never finds out and there's something ELSE she's now worrying about for relationships. Saying "it's not you, it's me" probably wont help for someone with this severe anxiety.
the third scenario had me on the fucking floor holy shit lmao
Im sorry, but Joseph is correct in the second one, and he won me with his points. Not saying Danny and Jordan are assholes or 100% wrong. I can see where they're coming from, but *I* dont want her to ruin her f*cking life.
But both are going to ruin her life. If you lie, she's going to know why the breakup actually happened and it's still going to crush her either way. With how bad her anxiety is about this, she's going to think, no matter what lie you tell her, that she was broken up with because of the sex anxiety. She is going to be broken in both scenarios. At least with telling the truth, she can work through the anxiety and learn from that relationship and hopefully with her next partner can be fully open about her anxiety and have a supportive partner through this
This is best episode yet.
I like to think of lying to save someone like "The Importance of Being Ernest", in the sense that is saying a lie to save someones feelings that bad? I dont think so but man i feel bad for that couple.
woohoo new episode! also for gods sake please put the nice art in the thumbnail in the video too, like why is the low quality title graphic the video image like pls its not that hard
No shot you lie to her. No shot. Their relationship is built on honesty, he established that, you have an *equal* obligation to be honest to her as you do to save her feelings. You obviously don't say "I'm leaving you because we can't have sex", but you *cannot* lie to her it will not fly, there is no chance she doesn't see through it.
The only thing that could make these better is if the static image on the Video was the thumbnail of them on the couch.
I love both of my parents more than anything in the world, but do I still like to call my wife mommy? Yeah dude.
can you normalize the audio to like -6dB please?
Gotta be honest (2nd relationship). It would suck to hear, but they deserve the honesty.
Love listening you guys but the audio is too quiet!
Literally don’t let Joseph hypothesize his way into making y’all believe lying in the second one is the right option. That poor woman is just gonna have to be let down by an all new person and then live with the pain of deceit.
Also once you’re no longer dating, that other persons intimate, in this case- SEXUAL problems aren’t your responsibility. You can lend an ear if they haven’t worked through their trouble but no longer being in a relationship relinquishes some of those responsibilities. Doesn’t mean they’re dead to you
While I applaud Joseph's stance that you shouldn't harm people you care about, I really can't agree that lying is the way to achieve that.
MBT I feel strongly that you were correct about the second one. So many of the arguments the others were saying felt very self focused, thinks like “I have to tell the truth”, “I couldn’t live with myself”, “I have no obligation to lie”. Bro, what about her? Why are you so focused on what you want and need when the whole point of to minimize the chance that the breakup screws her up for life?
The best argument that the comments brought up is that there’s no way she won’t think that was secretly the reason even if he doesn’t say it. That kind of paranoia about it may just make her symptoms worse the same way telling the truth would.
4 YEARS?? How have they not thought in 4 years "dang maybe we should medicate this anxiety." Go get a vallium script, or hell just plan to get drunk for intimacy. Goodness.
Also just feel strongly about this one, but honestly the hard hitting truth of hearing "us not being able to be intimate is the deal breaker" will (hopefully) help her realize the gravity of the situation before she commits to another long term relationship, and she'll stay casual, find someone who doesn't need that, or get help to work through her performance anxieties. It's not cruel to say that someone needs to work on themselves if they already knew they needed to work on themselves and have failed to do so in an appropriate manner for 4 YEARS.
So I get the "the only way to not be cruel is lie", but based on the information we have - if you live years of your life this far in your head about it - there is literally no possible story she doesn't immediately jump to "you're lying it's the sex stuff "
God that middle story was too real. GOD THAT FUCKING MIDDLE STORY WAS TOO *REAL*!!!!
Is it just me or are these episodes getting more and more quiet?
Aight let's go 😎😎
I'm so glad we got an episode with a prompt that ended in a 2-1 decision so we could see who really is the most insane person of the three.
Spoilers: It's Joseph. Joseph is the insane one
Call me parasocial, but one of my favorite things to do with this podcast is to pause right before the first take is given. Then, I give my take and reasoning out loud to myself and resume the video after I'm done. It's silly, but fun
Heres a different opinion for the 2nd topic: Instead of breaking up with the woman, he should encourage her to go to therapy, not the sex therapy he has mentioned in the post, normal therapy since she seems to have huge anxiety issues.
Let a psychiatrist talk with her about her fears and take medication. As someone who has anxiety issues, medication and therapy really helped calming down in trigger situations.
Once the medication kicks in and therapy seems to work, take it slowly, kissing, cuddling, physical non-sexual contact and once you want to be truly intimate again, use a fckton of lube and maybe some scented candles, anything that relaxes her and makes a potential cramping less painful
Tbh do not spend any more time on this woman. It sucks for her absolutely, but no one should have to deal with this from their partner. Do not let her get in the way of you finding a fulfilling relationship while she deals with her issues.
On the milk there was something I don't think they went into enough. The father in law finishes peoples food? Like, just by default? He doesn't ask or anything? The hell? Sure, I can understand if they're picking up their plate to throw away or something, but the baby has a bowl of partially finished cereal and he just noms it? I assume the mom isn't giving the baby twice the cereal they eat or some such. The baby can't say no! I guess the baby can just go hungry or the mom just needs to make more cereal. You know what I think? I think the mom wanted this to happen in the same way someone that works in an office with a food thief might bring super spicy food in one day.
No I have to disagree with MBT on the second one. You have to tell the truth, both out of respect for your partner and to hopefully encourage them to further seek help in resolving the issue. It doesn’t seem to be a diagnosed health issue, so being told by someone who cares about you deeply is easier than maybe the next person straight up throwing it in their face.
People say “if you don’t lie the truth will ruin her life forever”; lying is just passing on the burden of truth to the next person. If you truly cared about this person, would you rather deliver this devastating news yourself and hope to try and leave them in a position where they can face their fear and resolve it, or leave it up to the next guy potentially being an asshole about it?
The tricky thing with the no sex relationship argument is both sides are fundamentally flawed in their approaches, I feel. Joseph has the right sentiments and objectives in mind of trying to make sure that the partner does not feel like all of their worst fears are coming true, but lying is the wrong way to get that across. On the opposite side, yes while you should be open and honest with your partner ESPECIALLY if it is something worth ending a relationship over, it is ignorant of your responsibility as someone who CARES about the other person (whether you continue to date them or not) to try and help them move through this issue that they have.
What ought be done is the person approaches their partner and explains that while yes, the fact that they cannot be physically intimate is the deal-breaker here, it is not the "inability to satisfy" in and of itself that is the issue. If a person wants someone they can be physically intimate with, and truly does love that person outside of that, then theoretically the act in and of itself would be all that is necessary to find fulfillment. If that is not the case, then it's not right for either of them, and they owe it to each other to give one another the space to grow and find someone else they are more comfortable with. You cannot just cut them loose and say "it's not my problem" anymore, and I think that opinion mainly stems from the fact that people who have it are not in the relationship and thus do not have any in-born attachment to the people in question.
TL;DR: Yes, you should tell the truth, but you really need to spend actual time talking this through with them and not just cut them loose, and you should frame it as "it's not you, it's us."
New councel
Yeah Joseph, sorry, bad take on the second one. Let’s say you lie and everything goes well, then what? The girl is going to go into another relationship thinking she did nothing to make her partner upset, and she’s just gonna let it all happen again! You’re letting history repeat itself here! Shaking my smh
(Good episode tho, I’m really enjoying these podcasts)
44:32 MBT is objectively correct, also this the funniest part of the podcast(I get it)
Re: “breakup:”
MBT is just flat wrong about this one. How can allowing someone to perpetuate this deep-seated psychological problem by burying it be “kinder” to them? If this woman has any chance of getting over this in the future, it involves confronting it and finding the courage to face it head on. Ignoring it hasn’t worked for the whole relationship. If you’re kind and considerate, who’s to say that her next relationship, or short fling will be just as kind? If you truly care about this person, why would you kick the can down the road and allow a completely unknown person to break the news? You have to be honest. You’re allowed to have requirements for a relationship and if they are not working or can’t change no matter how hard you try it’s time to end the relationship.
That being said, getting over it isn’t necessarily the only option. It is a stereotype that everyone needs sex to have a fulfilling relationship. If this is gonna be a serious problem for her, it needs to be part of the relationship expectation/boundary negotiation. You can always find someone compatible with you. They exist. Some people don’t want or are repulsed by sex. Some people would be fine with an open relationship. Some people want but don’t need it.
There are myriad options beyond this relationship, but clearly they have exhausted all available options and it has not worked and her future cannot include him as it stands.
Edit: there’s also a non-zero chance her strong anxiety around this issue will cause her to not only draw the right conclusion for the wrong reasons, but also believe you had to lie about it (because you did). This would be a much worse outcome. No matter how expert you are at lying there’s no way you can prevent the possibility of this outcome, which will cause even more damage than the truth.
Joseph is completely wrong. Lying will not help her at all. Lying will arguably make it worse for her. She's got extreme sex anxiety, if she somehow believes the lie, how is this helping her. If you are truthful, this can give her the reason for the breakup and something to work through with therapy. This can be something to bring up to her next partner, explaining her anxiety and they can find a way to work through it. Maybe it can be done by finding someone who might not care about sex and it isnt an issue for them. I kinda wish Jillian was here because she would probably be the voice of reason. It just seems like such a man take to have to be like, "just lie to her, its better to lie"
Maybe she shouldn't be getting into a next relationship while she has this obvious impediment.
@@gamermancrygamer9461 this could be a forever thing tho. There's some anxieties that just linger and will constantly stay with you indefinitely. Like it can come back again. I think she could get back into a relationship after sometime working through a lot of stuff. I'm also not saying she should get into a relationship IMMEDIATELY after the breakup. But once she's ready to start dating again, it could be something to bring up with a partner to be truthful about and find a way to potentially work with them on it.
The thing that makes MBT’s take on the second story such an L is that he’s working under the assumption that she will be fucked up forever. Like, yeah they tried to help her and failed but this idea that she is forever broken and can never be helped is so demeaning and reduces her to just her failure and nothing more
GAS
Nah I agree with Joseph with the 2nd post
WAIT DANNY IS PUERTO RICAN🇵🇷!?!??!
Man the Ace Erasure in the second story is palpable
People also don't really understand how anxiety works, either.
@@Hacknerdsexactly! I think Danny actually understands how anxiety works here and knows that lying to a person with severe anxiety, no matter how specific it is, will hurt more in the long run. If the relationship was good besides that one thing, she's gonna be like, "what if it was actually from the sex anxiety" and that will eat away at her. If he is truthful with her, it will hurt, but she can work through it 100% knowing that's how why it ended.
Yeah that's kinda something I somewhat thought about. If she gets told the truth, maybe this could help her understand that the anxiety could be something in the asexual spectrum. Like if she knows that's the reason, this could lead her to realizing that maybe sex doesn't work with people she truly loves and could lead her to be in a relationship with an asexual person who would be happy with no sex. If she wants hookups, she can talk to her partner about having an open relationship to help with that specific want of hers.
The second story has a really easy solution. He should tell her the truth and break up, but insist on maintaining a close friendship afterward and use that as an opportunity to have no-pressure hook-up's with each other with the hopes that can lead to getting back together with the sex anxiety issue solved
I dont think mbt or danny are wrong in this scenario. its just a lose lose situation and anything he says will must likley fuck her up, sooner or later down the road with another partner. theres no one solution that can fix this but therapy sessions can help lessen the burden. i can see both sides of the story but I think the best way would be to lie a little but still keep most of the truth intact. imma be honest i honestly wouldnt know what to do in this scenario and i'd feel guilty either way. rip
You can bring up every single thing possible as a lie and no matter what if you've been with them this long you tell the truth. Ie let's say you bring up money or something they WILL think "we've never really had that as a problem before, and we've worked through other things. Why couldn't we talk over this is if it was THAT serious to where you'd want to call it off". Like that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard lol, you don't HAVE to be the devil's advocate every time for the sake of it Joseph. If you've gone through this much stuff with someone why would you ever just lie to them? Acceptance over flaws is how you grow as a person, if you lie then you are, as Danny said, giving them MORE THINGS TO SCRUTINIZE THEMSELVES WITH. You're also blowing said things out of proportion in lying about something irrelevant. Furthermore! You are NOT letting them grow as a person!! Why would you ever put that on someone and say in your mind "this is for your benefit". Let THEM decide that. It's not hard. It's their life, if they are the problem for better or worse they can't do anything to try and improve themselves by giving them a fake problem in addition to the other thing.
Sometimes you DO have to hurt someone short term for them betterment of their psyche long term. No one wants a sycophant Yes Man who just says whatever someone wants to make them feel good.
I say this having been in a relationship for 7 years and we've had hard times in the middle, times where we've even broken it off and when we did it was because there was an elephant in the room and I didn't want to acknowledge it, and meanwhile SHE kept giving me BS answers when I asked what the problem was on her end. So we're both not doing ourselves any favors, I'm telling you this isn't the way. When we were honest, it sucked, it hurt, but you know what, here we are living together still. Miss me with that lying shit.
For the second scenario, the girl probably isn't asexual, but it's worth thinking of it from a scenario of how you deal when an asexual person dates an allosexual person. Which is to say, if both their needs aren't being met then it would be best to end the scenario and move on amicably.
TBH, the girl should probably find an ace person to date.
Title made to clickbait me in particular
For the first story while it's never stated that any of the friends have told the new couple they are uncomfortable doing sexual things in front of others who are uncomfortable with it is actually just sexual harassment.
It is not kink shaming to say that maybe some behavior is in fact not OK for board game night and maybe you should keep the role play for when you are alone.
yeah i was thinking this a lot, as someone who engages in pretty similar stuff. engaging in fetish stuff around people who haven't consented is never ok
what the fuck are you ON about joseph??? theres literally no reason to pass the buck like that and hope her next relationship ends up better by luck. acting like its some problem the girl can never figure out without being coddled is just super unproductive. just because people break up doesnt mean theyre going to immediately cut off all contact with each other and curse each other's names
like, it feels like you're thinking like the woman has no agency in this situation and can never act like a mature adult.
Huh
To not lie about the sex thing is the fucking craziest thing in the world. MBT has never spoken more truth in succession than he has had during that entire segment.
I think the issue with this podcast is that jordan is a bit TOO straight
based lesbian dommy mommy relationship
I've watched MBT streams so I know the pod's naming origin--this is a DOG SHIT NAME, NO NEW LISTENERS WILL GET IT CAUSE THIS SHIT SOUNDS LIKE A DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS PREMISE
That said: yeah, your 20's is a period of HEAVY growth to the point you NEED to take it in mind if you're locking into a long term relationship at that time
Huh... I never liked Taylor Swift. But I'm angry old man who likes heavy metal, industrial and grunge.
The first one: so what... The guy is just supposed to lose his friend group too? Especially after he gets a major relationship broken, he's gonna need support. why is it on him to remove himself from the environment?
THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING THE WHOLE TIME! Like they're saying "dude who has been in a relationship for 4 years should cut himself off from his entire support network because his ex can't stop publicly kinking at friend get-togethers"
The third solution to the second question: Just stay in the relationship and be miserable! You still get a relationship, you still get to smash (someone else) and you avoid hurting her feelings. It's like the best possible solution for everyone (except you)
bro danny and jordan got L takes on the second one😭 telling the truth to that girl can and WILL fr fuck her up FOREVER. “it’s not his responsibility” yeah but this guy still loves her? he doesn’t need to bend over backwards and forever deal with the lack of sex but like.. can he not give her the smallest bit of human decency and just lie a LITTLE?? i just think a lie would save this girl from spiraling. joseph slayed this episode.
Idk, I have to agree with Danny. If the lie gets found out then that's even worse, and to add, if the lie is not convincing enough, she will have doubts and will wonder for the rest of her life "was it actually my lack of sex drive and he was trying to protect me?" idk this one is complicated.
When Joseph said that it would ruin her chance of getting a relationship in the future all I could think was that lying to her wont help, it'll just make those relationships have to deal with it in the future. I don't even know which is worse either, like I think Joseph still has a point because bad relationships will be better than no relationships but, yeah this one is a lot and I feel bad for the girl and the guy.
This assumes she's capable of believing any lie you give her. That she can set aside this debilitating anxiety of hers to believe that the thing she fears the most isn't happening for the reason she automatically assumes it's going to be about. Anxiety isn't exactly logical.
@@Hacknerds if she doesn’t believe you it’s a whole another thing. i just think that in my anxiety filled mind i’d rather someone lie about this one thing for me. but i do understand what would be good for me might not be best for everyone
@@ryanbacker4870 yeah this whole situation sucks all around. i think that if it had to happen to me though id rather them blame our futures than the one thing i was insanely worried about. there is so much to this, i just think if they blame the futures it would be something a lot easier to digest on surface level.
I'm against Joseph on this point. I think his take doesn't put into account that she'll most likely figure out either way that her relationship was ended because of her sexual anxieties. Being lied to would hurt so much more than telling the truth. I think if you tell the truth, there's a way to work through it in maybe therapy about ways to deal with this anxiety. I think if you are open and honest too, she could explain to her next partner her sexual anxieties and they can work through it together. I think communication and honesty is the most important thing in a relationship and in a breakup
the truth is so selfish
I'm 100% in joseph's side on the second story, even if she finds out (witch is very likely) you still did you're best to make her feel as good as possible, and like you do have a responsability to the people in you're life to at least try to make them happy, in this case there's no happy outcome, but the lie is the only one with the chance to not be as bad, and I can't understand telling the true, as far as I see it it's a very cruel thing to do, even if you don't feel good about lying that is not about you're hapiness, it's about not making life even shittier for her, you are doing this for you're hapiness, I think you have the obligation to try and make this less bad for her
The 3ed story is 🤮🤮🤮🤮
Actually xey prefer latinx sweaty 💅
I came to this comment section straight from Spotify just about when the second one finished. I think Danny and Peeps are absolutely insane and out of their mind if they think they can get away with telling the truth and not live with the guilt of having knowingly destroyed the future sentimental life of the other person. Joseph is so right here, you HAVE TO LIE, there’s no way around. You can’t salvage your past and your present with this person, but you can maybe put a band-aid on their future and get away safely, sure you’ll have to commit a lot for this to work, but that’s just what you do for someone you care a lot about.