IS ARCANE TRICKSTER Rogue Worth Playing in Baldur's Gate 3?
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
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Arcane Trickster Rogue is in a very weird spot. To be honest, on its own merits, it's probably the single weakest subclass in BG3. In this video, we break down the subclass to help you decide IS ARCANE TRICKSTER Rogue Worth Playing in Baldur's Gate 3?
0:00 Intro & TL;DW
2:47 Problem with Arcane Trickster
9:18 Usable Arcane Trickster
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Love the video man. Having magic and rogue abilities in one character gives your other three characters so much freedom to be whatever you want. Its very possible I missed an earlier video, but I've been trying to maximize the efficiency of my bonus actions and feel like there's gotta more I'm missing. Especially with my Wizard Gale outside of Misty Step. Maybe a video with items or general ideas that help you not waste bonus actions as often. Thanks!
For anyone wondering, this is the best BG3 content creator on UA-cam. No clickbait and worthwhile guides.
Agreed!
Eh, lots of typos from what I heard. For For example, Rogue actually got their ASI at 4,8,10,12
Sin tee
I love my arcane trickster. As someone who is a half elf that was bullied on the streets of balduran, he stumbled upon a wizard that cheered him up with cool magic and explained the weave to him. He never saw him again, but from that day on he practiced with the weave for one simple goal. To summon himself a friend. As such, his first spell was find familiar. As he got older, his familiar helped him make money on the streets by distracting people for him to pickpocket. All of his spells are utility focused. He learns things to help him and his familiar get by easier on the streets. Stuff like fog, grease, darkness. Eventually the mage hand manifested with unique properties because his interpretation of the weave was unique itself. After being kidnapped by the illithid's, he made some actual comrades, and his powers went from being weak when he was all alone in the world to being the setup for the team, then swooping in with sneak attacks and perma invisibility.
You can use the mage hand to get guaranteed sneak attacks by placing within 1.5 meters of your target.
And spend an action doing so.
@@CheeseVRC it is now permament summon as long as have hp... :S
Small correction, Rogue gets it's feats at 4, 8, 10, and 12.
Edit: Finished the video. I think one way to improve Arcane Trickster is to take a few ideas from Pathfinder's version. Make it able to proc Sneak Attack on cantrips, allow it to learn spells from Scrolls without a wizard dip, and maybe give the Mage Hand more functionality by allowing you to cast spells through it instead of yourself. It would greatly expand its usability and identity.
hmmm its like I said something similar, eh sparty? :P
I thought it did add sneak attacks to ranged spell attack rolls? I have only played it a little bit and i remember bone chill triggering sneak attack, maybe they fixed it idk
@@tehlewlz yes, it wasn't intended, and was removed in patch 4 (the latest so far).
It actually triggered due to wielding a finesse weapon, and game applied sneak attack to any attack instead only a weapon.
I agree with a "parent" comment though, it would be nice to allow sneak attack on cantrips/spells at least to some extent, and maybe make it exclusive to Arcane Trickster subclass. Scribing spells could be nice too, naturally also for Eldritch Knights.
@@tehlewlz Perhaps you're mixing up Wrath of the Righteous and BG3
And overhaul sneak attack while your at it. WOTR's Sneak Attack isn't a special attack but an attack condition. As long as the enemy is "flanked", your normal attacks become sneak attacks. So for BG3, that would be "advantage". This would make playing a rogue way more rewarding both in combat and doing ninja things.
Arcane trickster definitely feels like it should be 3 levels for the thief subclass, then warlock for darkness + devil’s sight. Thats clearly the busted playstyle and an archfey warlock is basically a charismatic trickster with lots of access to strong utility spells, damage spells, and invisibility as a reaction when you take damage. That is incredibly strong as a trickster
That's exactly how I built Astarion. It happens to entertain the vampire aesthetic REALLY well
I took at least 2 levels of warlock on all 4 in my party to get Devil's Sight. 2 of my party cast darkness, sorclock and bladelock and it is very busted fighting in and from darkness as a group in every fight! Ranged attackers wander around outside the darkness and the melee get disadvantage on every attack 😂😂😂 Literally has been EZ mode
do you just blast with Astarion or use weapons?
@@Antonin1738 if youre going with what I suggested above, probably just blast. But i havent actually played this combo
I see, thanks!
so great to listen to your knowledge of BG3 and your way to comunicate is great. Feels like someone you know. great work and waiting for the next one.
Man such high praise, thank you so much for watching!!
9 in arcane trickster is really where it’s at for the disadvantage on spell save dc. You forgot to consider that arcane trickster can use scrolls! A hold person with disadvantage is plenty powerful. I take mine with sharpshooter and magic arrows too. Ring of the mystic scoundrel also plays a big role
yeah but the issue is that the game is just not ballanced around that. AT is just not giving you much besides RP stuff. If you want to play a cunning dickhead just play a Swords Bard. If you want to play a nerd that can sneak get 1 or 2 levels into rogue instead of going balls deep.
@Kek393 The issue is the fact that Mage Hand is gimped, without that the subclass has no flavor. In 5e DnD you can do so much cool stuff with the Arcane Trickster and the Mage Hand Legerdemain that you just can't do in BG3. That makes the subclass bland. It's a shame that 3 months or so later and Larian doesn't seem like they plan on ever fixing the hand.
@@SkilledKill I know man, honestly I think if they at least added a new cantrip to substitute Booming Blade the class would come into it's own but that's just me. Been thinking to use these 1st level slots to at least get the Paladin smite for some minor extra damage.
@@Kek393 Casting Hold Monster from stealth via a scroll to start combat with an enemy rolling disadvantage to save against it? That's priceless. Could make or break an entire battle.
@@elained.8240 Sure but you can just have Sorcerer do the exact same thing at will without needing to hide.
Hey just wanted to say been loving your videos. I appreciate your emphasis on never discouraging people from playing who they want. Love your perspective, keep doing what you do
of course bro! just want people to enjoy what THEY want :)
I don't have to watch this video to know the answer: yes. It's great, in fact. Arcane trickster does all the rogue-y stuff you want and need, PLUS it brings invaluable utility to the table, I literally don't spec my rogue into anything else, they're too weak. Also, frankly, pure damage subclasses like Assassin and Berserker are just boring.
The spells AT gets are meant to be used primarily for utility (i.e., spells like Longstrider, Disguise, Tasha's, Fog, etc.) NOT damage. If you don't use them that way, well OF COURSE the subclass will suck. But that's not the subclass, it's user error.
But even for damage output Arcane Trickster is excellent. There are many times when my AT Astarion carries my party in fights, and I play on Tactician. I play AT as a ranged damage dealer primarily; use the Cunning Hide as often as possible; and give them Sharpshooter as early as possible.
I *do* concede that enhanced Mage Hand doesn't deliver on its promises and that is not ok. It could use a fix.
after you said that other rogue specs are weaker than AT i knew you're clueless
brother, as an arcane trickster main myself , it is objectively the weakest of the 3. thief and assassin are a clear cut step above arcane trickster in terms of being able to kill something. BUt yes. I only play arcane trickster and these people dont understand the spells are utility and supposed to set you up for your rogue shenanigans. I dont multiclass either. Mage hand throws pots and weapons into the fight, AT casts darkness and as long as the concentration holds, AT can weave in and out of fights. Its fun because i had the power fantasy, but im no fool to say its stronger than the other ones simply because its my favorite.
Thanks, I was wondering which class I should play next.
The trouble I had when playing with the Arcane Trickster was, that most of the fun spells did miss alot because my character's stats were still mostly weapon focused. So I ended up using the spell slots mostly for utility spells like shield or blur. Running about with a Thief/Bard multiclass with high Charisma , those lovely Dex Gloves from the Creche and the Arcane Syngergy Diadem, felt much more like having a magical Rogue - I assume this works nicely with Wizard too.
That's what you're supposed to do. Those spells and ability are meant primarily for utility and if you don't use them that way, well, OF COURSE the subclass will suck.
@PaulRGauthier This ^ A lot of people seem to want to build a sorcerer first and rogue second, and that's not really what AT is meant to be. It's not like tabletop DnD where you can just pull any spell your DM allows. Devil's sight, darkness, mage hand, throw scrolls, boom.
I played an arcane trickster for two years in a tabletop campaign and I agree with you that the subclass is much more suitable to that medium. Turn on the charm to a guard while my mage hand legerdemain pickpockets the key off of him, minor/major illusion distractions while I or my party goes the other way, that sort of stuff. To recreate that character in bg3, at least combat wise, I downloaded the 5e spells mod so that I could have access to booming blade. BB+cunning action disengage or mobile feat adds a lot to tactical play to the subclass. That being said, that combination could be achieved by a multitude of other builds that have more utility as well. But I still had fun with it, since the archetype is one that’s close to my heart.
IMO a simple fix would be to give mage hand more functionality, or have it expand as you level up. give it the ability to grasp, maybe pick up weapons, hold a torch, alley-up a thown weapon maybe?
Make it so you can cast cantrips through the Mage Hand.
so in 5e, what makes arcane trickster so good, is it can be used to lockpick, disarm traps and pickpocket on it's own from a distance.
There are supposedly some things you can give the mage hand but it makes the thing vanish. People say they use phalar alluve on mage hand but if the mage hand dies, that phalar alluve is gone forever.
As for me, I use it 99% of time to stick invis and let me sneak attack. Sometimes I do let it do stuff like emergency toss potion or have it throw an enemy (i usually give mine hill giant elixir so it can toss bigger stuff)
Or just make it doe what it says it is supposed to do. Like fix the bugs and it would be a lot better.
I agree overall with your take on the AT - but I'm surprised there was no mention of the Magical Ambush ability you get at level 9. IMO, that is the one unique thing AT brings to the table. Forcing targets to roll a saving throw at disadvantage is potentially really powerful. Unfortunately, it is hampered by the AT's small spell pool and requiring stealth. But as far as I know, it works with scrolls which does help offset the spell pool issue. Because of that, it might be worth going 9 levels of AT with 3 levels of wizard to help increase your spell pool a bit (and to be able to learn spells from scrolls). Another I can see for a pure AT is that it does allow you to still get some useful utility spells - Longstrider, Feather Fall, etc. if you don't have anyone else in your party who can cast them but want to max out sneak attack damage.
I think another problem with AT is that if you are going to use it for offensive spells, you need to get your Int quite high. So you're kind of forced into using the Warped Headband or into using feats to pump up your Int as well as your Dex.
I played around with AT a bit because I didn't want to multiclass and I liked the idea of the class. But then I realized that College of Swords Bards can provide a similar combat style with stronger spell casting. It's a better Arcane Trickster than Arcane Trickster is.
You're not supposed to be using AT as wannabe wizard. If you want to do that, just multi-class.
The spells are for utility, not damage. This idea is well understood when people talk about Eldritch Knight but completely forgotten when people talk about Arcance Trickster.
I want to play like this. Using the DEX-gloves for stealing scrolls, stealthing and then spamming them every combat at enemies with disadvantage. Sounds super weak early because you have low DEX but we can respec in this game.
@PaulRGauthier except the AT lacks many utility spells as well
@@davidlopez6517 lmao no it doesn't.
Please insert another quarter and play again.
@@PaulRGauthierthe problems are when you compare it to bard rouge is already not the strongest class in bg3 wizards are already utility so why would you play a arcane trickster most notably you get shield but compare to swords bard and eldtrich knight. In eldtrich knight your still a fighter and have spells to amplify your combay. Same with swords bard and its slashing flourish giving you fighter levels of attacks.
Its best at role playing but isnt very strong.
A difference between bg3 and 5e is that you personally control every single character. Meaning a self sufficient rouge whos a jack of all isnt that useful.
Also with the swords bard change in bg3 it makes it basically better in almost all scenarios way better at spell casting. And with all the attacks you can make definetly out dps and stack on dots and effects.
I was initially put off by the tricksters lackluster spell list but having finally tried it now I can say it is great.
Mage hand stuff - if you have volos eyes on someone, you need to cast mage hand further away so it stays invis. Casting it too near anyone with see invis seems to immediately prevent it from going invis on summon. The only bonus thing it kinda has for me is that you can give it hill giant and allow it to throw/shove medium units far. But then again most of the time I just leave it invis and move to trigger threatened and allow sneak attack O_O Other people say there are items it can hold and use the active of (like phalar alluve) but that seems way too risky since if the mage hand dies, the item vanishes with it.
Also you can have multiple casts of mage hands per short rest if it uses a different stat. Starting as Mephistopheles tiefling will give you Cha and Int mage hand so you can do 2 casts per short rest.
As for fighting, I dont really cast non elemental spells on my arcane trickster and rely mostly on just elemental spell -> offhand attack using elemental infusion ring. With handbows, Firestoker on burning gets to double dip with elemental infusion and the burned alive. With melee, Render of mind and body can double dip as well.
You have become my first resource to go to for BG3 info and buildcrafting. I love your format. Never stop!
Thanks so much bro!
The problem is that the AT on tabletop has more options with the magehand that dont translate over in BG3 for some reason. I also think that since BG3 is a videogame you dont get the DM that goes "well sure you can take spell X as a arcane trickster since it makes sense".
Yes and no. Even without DM, Rules As Written 5e allows AT Mage Hand Legerdemain to lockpick, pickpocket, trap disarm etc. All things you can't do in BG3 (And they even claim you can in the description). 3 months or so past release with a hyped up GOTY award and stuff like this has been completely pushed under the table and it doesn't seem like they will ever fix it.
it was pretty strong in Pathfinder crpg, but because of sneak attack on spells like scorching ray. I remember Octavia decimating enemies with it, but mid-late game
The big thing that’s unique for eldritch knights is their pact weapon is amazing for throw builds, it makes any weapon return to you when thrown.
i prefer warlock pact of the blade, since charisma is a useful stat unlike intelligence. so no, it's not unique.
Yeah not needing your bonus action for the recall is amazing. Hoping 5.5 adopts that
@@wruzzerNeither the Arcane Trickster nor the Eldritch Knight are battlemages. Stop trying to make them into battlemages, they suck when you try to make them play a role they were never intended for.
@@wruzzer it is, read warlock pact weapons. They don’t return when thrown. And you wouldn’t make int a focus, just use str, especially with tavern brawler.
@@PaulRGauthier lol. sure noob.
I like multi-classing rogue (I like assassin the best personally) with the archfey warlock. You get invisibility, control spells and can manipulate darkness to get good sneak attacks in. Also think it’s a pretty thematic multi-class option, personally.
Ooh, that's a great idea. What level spread did you go with? How many Rogue levels?
I probably like the archfey warlock the most of any (sub)class in the game. I'm currently playing my second one.
But now you make me wanna dip into rogue. 🤔 Thing is, it would fit Equinox (my character) so well, as she's a bit of a trickster.
하지만 추가공격을 얻을 수 없지 않나요??
When Larian eventually patches mage hand legerdemain reverse pick pocketing grenades would be useful. Right now Paladin/AT for sneak attack without hurting smite progression as much appears to be the best use of AT.
In AD&D I used to play rogue/illusionist gnome... but the arcane trickster just falls short. I found multiclassing rogue/arcane trickster + wizard/illusionist. Usually a 4/8 split. But everything the arcane trickster does a lore college bard can do better.
a) The subclass is obviously inspired by the illusionist-thief, but it's not identical to it. If you wanna play an illusionist-thief in 5e, then play an illusionist-thief in 5e! :)
b) The whole illusion category of spells just didn't translate into BG3 well. Understandable, but unfortunate nonetheless.
I have a question. Do you think it would be worthwhile to do arcane trickster with great old one warlock? I feel like those two can go togther
Idk if this video was recorded before a patch or something but my arcane trickster's mage hand can pick locks/disarm traps and because it's invisible, it doesn't enter initiative during combat so I can just float it next to an enemy for guaranteed sneak attack. I do wish it could pick pocket though.
no, you still can't unlock doors and chests, only disarm traps without your dex mod
Just flat out wrong.
Arcane Trickster is the tabletop I consider to be the best rogue subclass and while not every dnd 5e player will agree with my take, many would definitely consider it to be a good subclass.
That's mainly due to the following reasons:
- Trap disarm toolkit do not exist in 5e as thieves tools can also be used to disarm trap. Larian did the legerdemain feature dirty by not allawing the hand to also disarm traps. If this was in the game I bet many people doing honour mod would consider this archetype simply to not risk dying by getting a nat 1 one on a disarm check.
- Lacks of spells option in tabletop DnD there are many spells that are not in BG3 some of those spells are really good on an arcane trickster rogue. This is also a problem for other spellcasting classes/subclasses as some of their best spells are not in the game, including cantrips like booming blade and greenflame blade that because in order to deal damage require the caster to make a weapon attack roll you can also sneak attack.
- The way BG3 and irl DM in a DND 5e usually handle certain things which in general affects the entire rogue class.
Overall I think the class suffers from not properly being adapted in a videogame setting, which is something they did with thief.
Honestly if anyone wants to play Arcane trickster, they should get the improved mage hand mod. It allows you to do what it does in 5e! It's great fun! :)
Doesnt minor illusion basically give you advantage and thus give you sneak attack a lot more frequently?
I mean, you made it work in a some way, nice ideas! I made a really good rogue tank from arcane trickster by 11lvl rogue 1 fighter. I used spells mostly for shield and fog myself.. Hits like a truck with that sneak attack. I solo Balance with that build
Wow Ive just been trying to make it work like yesterday and you post this video what a coincidence
I've been trying to combo it with a trickster cleric like 4/5 cleric 8/7 arcane trickster to sort of cast a spell and go into hiding or heal from the shadows, but yeah rather underwhelming, maybe if it was able to cast its spells as a bonus action, there is an act3 ring that lets you cast enchantment and illusion(i think) as a bonus action BUT you have to make a melee attack, but a eldrich knight 6/wizard 6 with that ring can melee attack, cast hold person and potentially get a 100% crit extra attack if targets doesnt save hold person, or get mirror image as a bonus action for tankiness
I went AT for Astarion on my first save because it just seems so fitting for a vampire. Then I found out that half the vampire-appropriate spells are unavailable to ATs, so took a level of Wizard. Then I had to take even more levels of Wizard just to get Gaseous Form like any good Dracula-inspired vampire should have. Aaannd then I just respecced to Thief/Wizard.
About a dozen saves later, I haven't gone back to AT.
I was thinking of trying again with 5AT/1Wiz/6EK, to get the lvl 5 Sneak Attack and lvl 6 Fighter Feat but Thief still looks like the better option. In fact, because AT is a 1/3 caster, it looks it'd be better off just going 3 Thief for the Bonus Attack and get three full caster levels by going 3Th/3Wiz/6EK... which just brings us back to the question of why bother with AT at all. That question sucks.
I'd say just give it the ability that it has in 5E where when hidden enemies have disadvantage on saving throws from your spells. Prolly make the mage hand have the functionality it says it says I has on the tool tip
I may sound like a salty gamer... but one thing I feel like is that Larian decided to spend too much time on some classes but not others. Classes like Druid and Rogue feel kinda half baked to me, where others like Cleric has 7 fully fleshed out subclasses and most of them overlap with other classes so it feels kinda pointless and I hardly doubt people are running a ton of trickery, nature or, knowledge. I would have rather had a circle of stars druid and a well built arcane trickster tbh.
That and the romances. I don't play games for digital romance, I'm constantly getting bombarded by sensual scenes meanwhile I can't even get my subclasses to work as advertised/as they work in 5e.
@@SkilledKill part of the romance problem in my opinion is all the cast is player sexuals. If some just didn't want more then friendship it wouldnt feel as bad. For example gale's main squeeze was a goddess... so it would make sense sense for him to just be straight lol. If 2 were strait, 2 gay, 2 bi it would have cooled the jets on the romance stuff and made some of them feel more like friends
keep up the good work :)
The Mage Hand being lousy is sad for sure but Arcane Trickster can be super good if you know how to build one.
1: 9 into AT while hidden your spells that hit enemies have them be disadvantaged on saving rolls. This is huge.
2: 3 into Wizard gives a total of 6 Cantrips, 8 level 1 spell slots and 4 level 2 spell slots + the ability to learn all level 1 + 2 spells.
3: You can use high level spell scrolls to greater effect due to 9 AT. Any scroll with a saving roll for enemies can be given to your character.
4: You can use a spell main action and bonus action sneak attack (5D6 + Weapon Damage) every round. This can give your turn a ton of options.
5: Dropping weapons or potions is free. Your mage hand can become an extra pseudo action if you position it well. Throwing weapons, alchemist bombs, bags full of grenades, health potions, haste potions (maybe), etc...
Arcane Trickster seems like a terrible subclass but in reality it can be super good for utility, crowd control and still deal decent single target damage every round. Any spell that has enemies roll for saves become that much better if you can remain or find ways to get hidden (still really good opening up a fight from stealth). I think with a Haste Potion you can use a spell, weapon ability / special arrow and the bonus action attack for sneak attack.
2+ wizard also gets you level 3 spell slots.
9/3 gives you 3 L3
10/2 gives you 3 total feats.
Scribe the L3 spells you want.
@@Zraknul Yea I realized this later when using a spell slot calculator.
2 into Wizard is probably more ideal if there is a really good feat that you need otherwise the extra spell slot would help with fights.
edit: The main reason to go Arcane Trickster is for that level 9 ability so not having an extra level 3 spell slot is fine when you can just use scrolls. 10 and 2 is better.
I have designs for astarion 1 rogue and the rest necromancer wizard when I do my necromancer army run through. That will go with the theme of the vampire lord astarion while having him still have sleight of hand expertise.
To make Astarion feel like what he “wants” to be (a rogue who learns magical secrets and fights), I like Lore Bard 10 / Wizard 2. You don’t get the bonus actions, but you get expertise in stealth & sleight of hand and he’s a full caster who can learn spells from scrolls and gets magical secrets.
I also feel like most of the Bard Dialogue options suite him really well too.
funny, i'm setting him up as 3 thief rogue, 7 lore bard, 2 enchantment wizard, realized that those classes have a lot of traditional vamp flavor and have great synergy
I have been playing an Arcane Trickster as well as a Wizard who doubles in rogue type activities such as lock-picking. I have not tried to make overpowered characters. I just play characters I enjoy. I have enjoyed playing both of these characters, but is too early for me to make comparisons. I believe the Wizard will develop into a more powerful character, but I feel I have to be more innovative with my rogue. In the end, any character in D&D is just so much fun for me since I have spent almost 50 years DMing, so playing a character is just a treat.
Do you think bg3 allow ability roller instead of point buy
I love your radiant monk build
Man thank the maker i found your channel. Finally something thats noy fextralife qvq
Well damn. If the ledger domain is bugged. I will reconsider.
I was thinking of using the Wizard 1 exploit and spicing up the A.T. with the scroll of summon quazit. Then the rest of the levels would be Rogue, while having him dual weild the enchanted crossbows and knives in the game. But maybe I should try Rogue 4 / 8 and the rest in Wizard.
Its a shame because in tabletop dnd the arcane trickster is probably one of my favorite subclasses to play and is a lot of fun. I just don't think it translates well into the video game.
The best part of using illusion spells in tabletop is that ypu get to use your own imagination and the possibilities are almost unlimited. In the game the illusion spells are so much more limited. Same with mage hand.
I was waiting for this video and I'm not at all surprised lol.
I am doing tactician difficulty with my Arcane trickster at level 9 and 3 levels of Wizard
You mentioned that the Arcane Trickster has nothing unique. You may have missed it's most unique feature, a feature that no other class in the game can get. Magical Ambush, at level 9.
While hiding, enemies have disadvantage on saving throws from your spells.
This is insane. This lets hold person have a 94% chance to hit instead of somewhere around 70%
Is it enough to warrant playing? I don't think so, but it IS unique enough to build around.
You can drink a speed potion, cast hold person from hiding then Auto Crit sneak attack in the same turn. I'd recommend trying arcane trickster at level 9 if you ever get intrigued.
I tried that and ditched it pretty quickly because of the situation where yes that would work but 11EK 1 Wiz over there is whacking once, casting hold person, whacking 2 more times which now not only gives advantage on the hold person, it also has advantage on their save next turn - something magical ambush or heightened spell cant do.
@@castillle3675 yeah it's true that most other classes are just simply better, but remember, the sneak attack dice also get doubled on the Crit. ( Which is why you're playing a rogue ) otherwise if you don't care about playing a rogue, then I think literally any class can do better than arcane trickster
What are your thoughts/ideas on a rogue/lock
the only time I wished I had an AT in my party was in the counting house.
I would have to totally agree Arcane Trickster is severely weaker as a Rouge subclass.
Pre-patch it was okay because spells would trigger sneak attack and I had equipped my Arcane Trickster with 5 crit chance boosting equipment, given him Spell Sniper feat (got Eldritch Blast), and crit chance boosting elixir, and Risky Ring so i always had advantage. I would spam using Eldritch Blast which would proc 3 attack rolls which only need to roll 13 or higher to crit and add crit sneak damage.
It was sorta of a one trick pony, but it was a very good trick. Now it's just better to multiclass into wizard.
AT is not a battlemage.
Your poor results are due to you playing the subclass wrong.
@@PaulRGauthier Well in a roleplaying game I would say there is no wrong way to play a class. In that build my AT was like a sneaky magical gunslinger that, in my mind, would point at enemies with finger guns and fire 3 magic bullets (Eldritch Blast).
And I never said I had poor results needing a 13 or higher to crit and thus possibly doing 6d10, if every Eldritch Blast crit, plus 12d6 from crit sneak attack was amazing.
@@Zero_Zone.We're talking about mechanical effectiveness and in that context there is ABSOLUTELY a wrong way to play a class.
@@PaulRGauthier And may I ask what mechanics am I using ineffectively?
@@PaulRGauthierwithout the flavor of using AT's Mage Hand Legerdemain to steal and do rogue stuff you're basically left with trying to do damage and casting longstrider/jump out of combat to help steal easier. The class in the game is implemented very poorly.
Bard Rogue seems like the spellcaster Rogue that works best
I play AT 9 and bard 3. Int is relatively low and push up Charisma. AT spells focused on friends or long strider or invisibility And the bard has the actual spells for combat. Lvl 9 give magical ambush.
The one way I would have the play through be a thing is purely by trying to do broken things with magical ambush.
Grouping up enemies while stealthed and using your illusion, to then blow them up with a fireball is fun.
But magical ambush at 9 is not fun. Should be at 6.
Prepatch it was extremely good; but they nerfed the Crit on spells.
Arcane Trickster makes the best straight class great weapon master sentinel rogues. Go half elf, human, or take a level in something that gives marshal weapon proficiency and you can add polearm master and use the dancing breeze.
The only thing good about the Arcane Trickster is that the mage hand last forever. I usually don't bother with the spell, as casting it is tedious for how little use it has in the game. I'd make it last until long of short rest for any character, and then let it be more useful for the Trickster.
One of my favorite defensive spells for most every D&D game is mirror image, but it is almost useless in BG3 as well. Any miss will destroy an image, which includes if they roll a 1 to hit. Some games have done it to where your AC stays the same but if you are hit, it rolls a d4 to see if you get hit, or you loose an image, in the table top version you have to roll a d20 to see if you get targeted or an image does, and a targeted image still has an armor class of 10+your dex modifier, so even if targeted they have to roll to hit it. On average the spell should last a few rounds in most versions of the game, but it gets quickly shredded in BG3, unless they roll very well and hit you every time. I don't know why the went with this way, but all it did was my the arcane trickster less useful.
Mage Hand is one of the most useful spells in the game!
Arcane Trickster is just gimped and honestly bad in the game currently. Mage Hand Legerdemain doesn't work, neither as advertised in the game description nor when compared to 5E RAW. You can't use it to lockpick steal etc.
That's the whole flavor (or class action) of the subclass and without it you really are better off just doing some research on a spellcaster multiclass build for a rogue if you want to be a Spellthief.
If you're a rogue with high charisma sorc bard warlock works great.
Gloomstalker/Thief with high wis and Ranger magic works well too.
Of course if you want a more traditional Arcane Trickster Spellthief type, just multiclass into thief / wizard and trade the gimped AT Mage Hand Legerdemain for extra bonus actions as thief, and the ability to prepare spells and learn scrolls as wiz...
AT is 1/3 spellcaster without the bonus action of thief. In actual DnD they make up for that with the flavor and utility of the Mage Hand Legerdemain. Without a properly working Mage Hand Legerdemain; literally anything is a better option for a spellcaster rogue build. I know this game is about the roleplay not builds, but the Mage Hand Legerdemain is 90% of the roleplay of the Arcane Trickster, ie how you find creative ways to use the hand. It really is just a bad subclass without that flavor and ability. You can even take the regular Mage Hand as a wiz cantrip and other than not being permanent it has the exact same level of utility....
I respeced as Thief Wiz and have had much more utility being able to swap and prepare spells at will when out of combat, and the bonus thief actions make him much better in combat. Would recommend over Arcane Trickster for both combat and roleplaying purposes for any players looking to make a "Spellthief" style
Rogue thief with a sorcery so the extra bonus action can be spells.
Need a new game plus and make the enimes scale to your level, once you beat the game its done you dont get to play the build you completed with the new difficulty mode that would be sweet implement this change.
I went arcane trickster cause i wanted to make a phantom theif build. And multiclassed into druid.. It uhhhh didnt work as well as i wanted it to
They should have given each non wizard class unique spells based on the class ... For example way of the elements monks get unique spells but most of the spells pool from the same spell book
you’re right, and that’s so sad because arcane trickster is one of my favourite subclasses for tabletop d&d
Arcane trickster is probably my favourite archetype since the old neverwinter nights games... Yet here it's just so flat. If it applied sneak attack on spell attacks it would make sense to pick it over a bard or if the mage hand could lockpick or disarm at range like in the pathfinder games - but this way its literally a worse bard or a worse rogue1 wizard 11.
I agree that by it's self Arcane Trickster in BG3 is absolutely terrible. and even going wizard doesn't really fix it's issues. you'd be better odd as a fighter wizard. but what seems to work really well is 5 Warlock 7 Arcane Trickster. you get 3rd level warlock spells that regen on short rests ( Bard is ur best friend here) if you pick up fiend you get fireball. and the big Golden key to this is the Control aspect. Blind for no concentration advantage on mostly everythng, Hold person for Guaranteed Crits and you can toss in whatever els. picking up pact of the blade and going Chrisma you have multi attack for melee and Eldritch blast when you're at range. 4d6 sneak attack damage isn't bad either. over all if you want to make Arcane Trickster work this might be the best way to do it. Battle field control assassin.
I think that a lot of arcane trickster analysis videos miss many of the most powerful features the class gets. Invis mage hand staying out of combat to apply advantage for free is huge, but overall it's a skill monkey class, and an extremely powerful one at that.
4 feats, grab actor and skilled, and whatever combat ones you want (medium armored for shield + yuanti scale, sharpshooter for dual crossbow dps for example) - don't bother with proficiency in stealth. Minor illusion, fog, enhance leap, misty step, or invis potion/duergar can more than make up for a mediocre stealth roll. You can also ignore acrobatics and chug hill giant strength potion to not even see the downside of using the vastly superior athletics.
However, you may not feel the need for a skill monkey if you don't touch honor mode, because you can try until you pass the skill check.
The only benefit I see for the arcane trickster over rogue/wizard is that with the former you get the evasion skill earlier
Land druid or whatever I think it should be the worst , coz other 2 paths is allready giving all what it gives you ? and actually more :D
I love your build, and think it settled my next character. Same idea, just trading that level 6 wizard school trait for metamagic!
Imagine, a 4 wild mage 4 diviner 4 'trickster tav who gets: 3 feats (20 dex & int), the invisible Mage Hand (infinite advantage sneak attacks), Sorcery points, a level 5 slot (for more sorcery points), Tides of Chaos, divination dice, expertise in sneak, and the ability to twincast greater invisibility on both himself and his Wolf-aspect dex barbarian bff who learned pass without trace to get us that +16 stealth check 🫥
When I started making an arcane trickster I was like what the hell is this lmaoo
To be fair Arcane trickster is not that great in tabletop either, especially if you're using just core spells.
It's the ''trap'' choice of rogues. Seems cool, but doesnt really do all that much and what it does do it doesnt really do all that well.
Probably my favourite type of RP, but it's truly very underwhelming in comparison to, well, everything else really. I agree that your best bet is either 3-4 levels of Arcane Trickster/Thief, then going Wizard with the rest, or invest more into Rogue if you want to be primarily that class.
I really hope that at least bugs with Mage Hand and Spell slots (if pure Arcane Trickster) will be fixed, but IMO, Rogue overall and AT in particular could benefit from an additional subclass feature. Though the only idea I have right now is to add Improved Minor Illusion into AT's level 3 (and maybe do the same with Mage Hand Legerdemain for Illusion School Wizards), maybe do something with Friends cantrip, since it's Enchantment School. It's not much, but at least it's on theme.
pickpocketing with mage hand is pretty cool
Except it doesn't work in the game?
What are the 4 weakest subclasses in the game for a challenge?
I ACTUALLY HAD THAT TYPED OUT: "Hardest Challenge Party" I think it'd be fun.. Champion, arcane trickster, four elements monk, and something else
For the Al-goh
My first ever dnd character was an arcane tricksters rock gbome he was a lot of fun to play kinda made up his personality on the spot yeah bad way to play but i stayed consistent with him hes basically a wannabe con artist and the spells i had for him on dnd aren't in bg3 but regardless i made him in the game and ive been having a lot of fun with him just used more attacking spells and situationals color spray and mirror images was his main spells anyways and there were times where color spray saved my life when enemies would huddle on me im not a good rogue nor was Bob haha i was told i play rogues like a berserker a roguezerker anywho i would color spray them and run away yes i could have easily cunning out of there but bob wouldn't do that he would blind them make a joke and run off giggling the arcane trickster in bg3 is very underwhelming but i still found it fun
I wish they would have given us the inquisitive rogue instead of the arcane trickster
So, more that the implementation is broken than that the class is bad.
Fog Cloud
The problem with Arcane Trickster is that his level 1 spells make him a weak DPR mage and level 2 spells make him a ok tank so it looks like he lacks a direction and he gets nothing good that other rogues get.
ANY Bard will do everything Arcane Trickster will do but better.
Almost impossible to beat double bonus action.
Sorry my dude, thought I was subscribed already.
It's alright brother, you're here now, that's what matters!
I’ve never been a fan of mid max as I think of it as a paint my numbers gaming exp. If it comes out looking good it’s not your work for the most part it’s someone else’s.
rouge characters are so hard to play as a facing character in this campaign.
I don't even know, why would you not multiclass into Wizard, Arcane Trickster on its own is very weak.
I was thinking arcane/wizard but not really sure. It seems to be in a weird place. Definitely seems like the worst subclass
9 Arcane Trickster and 3 Wizard can be good. You go 9 into Arcane Trickster so that your spells have enemies role disadvantage on saving throws while you are hidden (can be done via bonus action or before combat).
This combination gives you 8 level 1 spell slots and 4 level 2 spell slots and with Wizard you can learn all level 1 and 2 spells giving you a wide array of spells to use (granted they only apply to Wizard spells (9 available spells for use if 20 Intelligence + 3 cantrips) so keep that in mind in balancing what your Arcane Trickster knows (who knows up to 6 at level 9 + 3 cantrips)).
Subclass for Wizard would probably be Evocation if using AoE Evocation Spells so they don't hurt your allies, Conjuration for Create Water (once per short rest I think) to double Lightning Damage (good set up for other characters who have access to lightning damage), Enchantment for Hypnotic Gaze as a possibly good 1 target CC that is an action not a spell once per long rest, and finally Illusion subclass for a better Minor Illusion Cantrip using it as a Bonus Action + you can remain in stealth.
So pretty much your main action can be used for spell that enemies have a harder time resisting (AoE Crowd Control) and your bonus action can be used to trigger your Sneak Attack 5D6 on top of your dual wield weapon's damage which will be a little less damage then a main weapon attack - use dual hand crossbows with the better xbow on your off hand for bonus actions.
Biggest thing to remember is that your Arcane Trickster Wizard can also use Scrolls that you find in the game and with enemies having disadvantage to saving throws while you are hidden that is a massive advantage imo. Even a level 1 spell like Grease suddenly becomes a lot more useful for toppling enemies to the ground giving melee characters advantage.
edit: Also this: Drop potions or weapons on the ground and your mage hand can throw them at allies or enemies. I think you can throw Haste Potions possibly. Dropping stuff doesn't cost any actions. Your Arcane Trickster thus brings some healing and utility with this handy little hand.
IMO maybe champion also pretty "bad" as a subclass (if Arcane Trickster is "bad") ... maybe it's (champion) is worse?
The fact that champion gives - 1 for a crit (crit on 19) and you can stack it with some items and a potion makes it a nutty for a subclass, arcane rouge doesnt even have a cool subclass bonus going for it
@MrEuromanijak yh but that's the thing, the only thing champion has going for it is -1 to roll for crit. Which as you said is on a bunch of items, some of which a fighter wouldn't be holding (like the dagger). So as bad as arcane trickster might be, it can at least get all the bonuses the champion subclass gets just by holding the dagger (and also the other items to reduce crit roll).
I really don’t understand the way you use the word “spice”
I dont understand this game at all and none of the guides i watch make any sense to me. Idk the first thing about D&D or any tabletop game. I just love Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2 and other rpgs but this game (especially the combat and leveling up) is not making sense to me. Im gonna keep giving it my best shot at grasping it though.
Leger- DE- main, not legermain
but is it fun
Random comment for UA-cam algorithm
Honestly, in my opinion the quarter casters are not that good here in BG3 vs their DnD self. Arcane Trickster elevates the rogue class in DnD whereas in BG3 its hard to play as a straight rogue who isn't the thief duel wielding hand crossbow build. In DnD there's a lot more that rogues can do that are just limited here in this type of game.
In a word 'NO'..... not as good as a other rogues or multiclass rogue/ranger, rogue/sorcerer, rogue/bard etc.
There’s 3 subclasses that’s bad.
Eldritch Knight, Champion, and Arcane Trickster.
Imo. For eldritch knight, you should just go Battlemaster/Wizard PYF multiclass instead and for arcane trickster, just go Thief/Wizard PYF instead. Champion is just bad.
I did a vid on how you cna get a lot out of just going EK/Wizard.. Champion is actually a decent multiclass at least. Like a 10/2 barb champ is actually decent for the critical strike benefit, coupled with being a half orc!
Haven’t even watched yet but I’m gonna bet it’s not. Most of rogue best skills are front loaded and that one is so outclassed by the other two (especially thief) it’s not even funny or close
let be honest dude... neither eldritch knight nor the trickster domain!!! :/
Trickery cleric is terrible too.
Only because of better cleric options. It’s not bad bad in a vacuum the way Arcane Trickster is.
I would have much rather had a swashbuckler than arcane trickster. It’s much more iconic than arcane trickster anyway.