Five Minutes, Two Wishes - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Freeza Arc Part 12!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 3 вер 2017
- Goku undergoes a severe physical transformation into a Super Saiyan... and seems surprisingly unaffected by it. Freeza tries to blow up the planet, but it takes some unspecified length of time. And I try to explain the Dragon Ball wishes that confuse people more than any others.
- Розваги
I've never noticed the text box changes. Great observation
Love your videos lol
Hi mark!
Aren’t you Totally Not Mark from the internet sensation UA-cam channel Totally Not Mark ❤
"...like he's a freaking computer installing updates." Now I'm imagining Freeza with loading bars in his eyes as he charges up.
Well, Freeza did become part computer just a little bit later lol
I was thinking of the blue screen of death he had in the Abridged version.
Except he should be stuck at 99% for 3 minutes, hit 100%, and then "initialize" for another 2 minutes.
The 5 minute thing doesn't bother me. I mean it's not like there's ever going to be a big tournament where everything is on the line and it'll have a 48 minute time limit that lasts for tens of episodes and... ....oh...
You forgot about holding back against fodder, most of the characters apparently standing around doing absolutely nothing for episodes at a time, and *_explosions_* to show that there's fighting going on!
@@purerage7963 in kai it's better
@@ifeanyiozoh3097 He was referring to Super. Kai makes the five minutes more tolerable. The problem is the fight itself goes on for far too long. That by that point you want it to end.
@@spartanq7781 The 48 minutes was more believable in the manga, it's the anime that stretches it out, just like the whole 5 minutes thing.
One of the things that annoys me the most is that Freeza, when mentioning his transformations, specifically mentions how he has different forms because he has so much power that he can't control it properly. But then he is more than able of punching with 82.7% of his total power at will.
Yea wtf that's pretty weird lol
its kinda sad if you compare it to nowdays with the internet around and how we saw ultra instinct first as a promo image before it appeared in the anime.
and later when the blanco form appeared we first saw it in a fucking adverstisement of dragon ball heroes before the episode came.
that whole magic of first seeing SSJ in the manga is hard to recreate nowdays when the franchise is a huge ploy for games and toys marketing
Its always been a a tool for merchandising, we are just old enough and have tye internet to chronical it in order to recognize it now. After all, the design for SSJ was spoiled in the Lord Slug film over a week before the manga released with the color of the hair only not being blonde because the animators were not aware. Nothing has changed other then our awareness of it.
I guess Younger Toguro took some Demon Mathematics classes.
One of the things I love about Toguro is that, at least to me, it seemed like he based his percentages on fuel consumption not his actual maximum output. 80% is what he called his standard power in a serious fight, because 80% is actually a pretty standard level of efficiency. A power supply pulling 750 watts from the wall and delivering 600 watts, or 80%, to whatever it's powering is considered a baseline of efficiency in modern computing for example. Car tachometers usually have redlines somewhere around 80-85% of the maximum (though it varies) to show at what point the engine will start being damaged as well. When he goes above 80% he starts losing efficiency fast just like an engine or PSU and puts his body in danger. 100% requires a massive amount of fuel to maintain killing nearly everyone in the arena, and "100% over 100%", the actual maximum output he can achieve, literally burns through his life force in a matter of seconds.
Kai, especially with the dub, makes this arc a _lot_ more enjoyable & bearable.
Scsigs because of Mr.Chris Ayres
No, I was talking in General. Chris Ayres is _definitely_ a highlight, though. Shame what happened to him.
Scsigs - You make it sound as if he died
He almost did from the illness he contracted requiring lung transplants to keep him alive. Now he most likely won't be back for Frieza's future appearances in the show when they dub those episodes next year.
Scsigs atleast he gave us a reason to watch Kai Dub and Revival of 'F' Movie
With all the anticipation for Super Saiyan's debut in DBD(not counting Episode of Bardock), I've been thinking a lot about the form, and I figure this is the perfect place to talk about my own thoughts.
I have almost no issues with the design. It's simple, but effective. Modern Dragon Ball has gotten a reputation for trying to pass off lazy palette swaps as new forms, and while that reputation is earned (While I personally enjoy Super Saiyan God's less-is-more approach, Blue and Rosé are both lazy and superfluous, and don't get me started on grey-eyed Super Saiyan! Ugh...), some of Super's fans have said that the original Super Saiyan is just as much as a palette swap as the new forms. But I think there is enough different that I think it's justified. It isn't just a hair-color change. Goku's hair stands on end, his eyes are drawn differently, and most importantly, there's the accompanying personality change. Goku still looks like Goku, but it's obvious that something has changed. My only nitpick is that _maybe_ Toriyama should've went with red eyes instead of green, just to highlight Goku's anger. There's an early image of a red-eyed Super Saiyan floating around the internet, and it looks pretty cool.
In terms of how Super Saiyan works, I have a bit more to complain about. In short, I think it's just a bit too easy to use. In the case of Kaioken, there is enough risk involved in the form that Goku has reason not to use it all the time. But there's no reason for Goku and the others not to use Super Saiyan all the time. Thus, Super Saiyan becomes the new norm. This creates two problems. Either (A) none of the characters are ever going to be able to keep pace with the Super Saiyan, and the form just becomes overpowered to the point of overshadowing everyone else, or (B) other characters are somehow able to keep up with the Super Saiyans anyways, and the form loses what was special about it. Somehow, Toriyama succeeds in doing both at the same time. New villains (and Piccolo) are able to keep pace with or outright surpass the Super Saiyans, detracting from it's worth. On the other hand, the form creates such a difference between the secondary cast members that they can't realistically be relevant ever again.
Super Saiyan needed some kind of fatal flaw, something to prevent it from being used all the time. Thing is, Super Saiyan already has three "flaws" to work with. (1) The form takes a lot of effort and concentration to use. (2) Keeping the form activated consumes stamina. (3) When a Saiyan is in their transformed state, they're more aggressive and volatile than usual. The problem is, these "issues" almost never factor in the outcome of a fight. I think we would've been better off if Toriyama expanded on one or more of them.
One potential option would be to make Super Saiyan like Super Saiyan 3, in that the form grants amazing power, but it consumes so much stamina that it can only be used for a few minutes, so Goku wouldn't be able to use it all the time.
Or you could expand on the personality changes, and turn it into some kind of super-powered evil side. Toriyama does play with this idea a bit with Goku's first transformation. Super Saiyan Goku snaps at Gohan, yells at Kaio, and refuses to abandon the fight with Freeza when it would've been the wiser option. The problem is that Goku mellows out before the fight's conclusion, and even lets Freeza go because he's no longer a worthy opponent. Afterward, whenever Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan, he's just a slightly sterner version of himself. Might've been a neat idea to amp up the mood swings so that the user starts to lose control of themselves in Super Saiyan. Goku and the others would only use it as a last resort so that they wouldn't be a danger to those around them. Heck, you could combine this with the idea that you can't activate the form at will, and that you need that anger to trigger it. I dunno, just some ideas.
the idea of goku being different after this arc was one i always found fascinating and wondered if he was going to be a sterner, more serious and responsible person and parent. they should have taken away the ability to have them transform at will and just be a form you snap into at a desperate state.
I agree that I never liked the entire shtick of Goku or anyone just needing to be blindly enraged to just become a Super Saiyan because it does seem way too easy, especially because Saiyans already act like that and fight like enraged barbarians to begin with; not even counting the Oozaru. There should have been more technicality to the transformation before it started this lazy trend of all you needing to be is just enraged at a friend's death. Its cheesy and easy. I also never really felt satisfied with it being over Krillin dying to push him, maybe because Goku & Krillin didn't have any real build up together a all between each other in Z unlike DB. Z just had Krillin play fodder then Goku steals the show solo. Krillin dying seemed trivial at that point.
As with the form itself, I agree that the Super Saiyan is somewhat overpowered in concept and the thing that eclipses the entire cast due to it lacking any real recoil unlike Oozaru and Kaioken. If they kept the form more in-line with Kaioken or False SS how it was portrayed originally as just an insane short boost where Goku loses consciousness within the brief rage, it would have felt less full-rounded invincible.
How I would’ve have done it is that the more goku uses it, the more enraged and for lack of a better word, evil, he becomes. Then it has a risk reward factor, and becomes decently interesting
What about grades 2 and onwards?
"(1) The form takes a lot of effort and concentration to use. (2) Keeping the form activated consumes stamina. (3) When a Saiyan is in their transformed state, they're more aggressive and volatile than usual. The problem is, these "issues" almost never factor in the outcome of a fight."
All factors there were used in the Android Saga. 1 was for Goku vs 19, 2 was for Vegeta vs 18 and 3 was against Freeza and not necessarily specific fight, it was for Vegeta for mostly Android Saga. Most mistakes can be factored by the Super Saiyan
Now that we're finally here I have to say I love the look of classic super saiyan. Later interpretations will make it much spikier and his hair won't flow like actual hair which for me always makes the transformation less mystical and more corporate, like here is Super Saiyan Goku TM with his perfectly marketable super saiyan hair. Anyway great episode as always.
Agreed.
I also feel like Son Goku was able to tame SSJ waaaay too soon. I think it would've been interesting if it only ever came out in a moment of desperation like on Namek, and that Son Goku becomes more and more ferocious and evil the longer he stays in the form. Sorta like the Hulk or the Venom symbiote.
It doesn’t bother me at all because short answer:Time is almost never consistent in fiction (but that’s my opinion you don’t have to agree)
5:29. There it is again, one of my big issues with DB. Design wise I get it, its simple and unlike anime Vegeta's semi golden Oozaru it was "new" but after 20+ years and several levels SS is the series' iPhone, color changes and all. Its a once interesting concept turned into a common commodity that even kids have with very few changes for the sake of familiarity. If it ain't broke, don't fix it doesn't equally apply to fiction. This is why I love Nakatsuru's SS4 above all else and I don't see that changing.
Ssj4 doesn't align with the theme of the transformations. Each one gets further and further away from the Saiyan's primal state - the Oozaru - culminating in the elegant god-like forms we have today. In other words, its evolution on display. Ssj4 returns to the ape-like roots of the species, completely disregarding this steady evolution from ape, to man, to ascended man (ssj) to god-hood.
@@PathBeyondTheDark That's bull. The main and most poignant changes of SS, beyond looks, is mentality. Goku changes on a dime, but he literally screams at Kaio and threatens Gohan (even if it was to get him moving) on his first transformation. Gohan, of all damn people, even after the whole "SS Mastering" shit, becomes angry, sadistic, and ruthless. SSJ3 literally gives you the mane worthy of an animal or a bandit, does away with your eyebrows into an almost Neanderthal-like look, and all the forms bulge your muscles and body. In what way do any of these things "drift away" from the primal Oozaru towards "elegant god-forms"?
12:26 This actually makes a lot of sense if you go back to the Piccolo Daimaoh Arc, in which it was established that Piccolo's children dying actually causes him physical pain. Granted, we do not know for sure if that feature is Masako exclusive or not, but I don't see anything suggesting that this trait isn't shared by every Namekian.
I agree with your notion about the
transformation having nothing to do with Saiyan lore. This is why I love Super Saiyan 4 because it ties into the ozaru form a lot more than the other Super Saiyan forms do.
That is why that is my favorite SS design.
While the first Super Saiyan form is my favorite, I'll admit that Super Saiyan 4's not bad.
SSJ4 is the best accurate design for the ultimate form: perfect balance between oozaru and sayan. Unfortunately I wished he had golden fur to resemble more the previous golden oozaru and no eyeliner...
@@pascalsimioli6777 My head canon is that Super Saiyan 4 is the "True" Super Saiyan and the other forms are just what someone without a tail is limited to. I.E if Goku had a tail he would've gone Golden Great Ape then and there
Are you challenging me to re-watch the entire DBD series? Don't think I won't do it!
YOU HAVE BEEN CHALLENGED. As long as you keep making videos though your last Boruto video was good.
Mathwiz97 Challenge accepted!
ayy rewatch squad
Jokes on him I would do it anyway.
That's funny. I was just about to start from the beginning.
5:42
Now that you've brought this up, now I kind of like the idea that Goku doesn't actually know he's a Super Saiyan, and like in Team Four Star's Dragon Ball Z Abridged, Goku doesn't even realize he's gone through a physical change.
All he's aware of is that his power shot up and he's scaring Frieza, which he honestly didn't consciously think about he just instinctively rushed him, so now he's just fucking with him, putting the fear of Vegeta's words into Frieza for giggles.
I don't think I've ever managed to detach Super Saiyan from pure hype and nostalgia. Even if I didn't watch the show as a kid! I feel like I'm with Toriyama on this one. The moment he just glares at Freeza, the arc might as well have been over. I personally don't really find the Dragon Ball stuff that interesting. Especially when all it actually accomplishes is getting the side characters off the exploding planet.
That gripe about Freeza and percentages reminds of Toguro in YuYu Hakusho, who also calculates his power in precise percentages, and he's probably more of a brute martial artist than Freeza's technological alien warlord. Then again, I think Freeza and Toguro were running around about the same time in Jump, so maybe one of them was inspired by the other. Or it's just a coincidence.
MozillaVulpix I mean, that could be the case that they both inspired by each. YYH, and jojo P3, were running around the same time and togashi took a lot of inspiration from jojo for the chapter black arc.
I always forget about JoJo. Maybe because it's not in WSJ anymore.
MozillaVulpix Toguro was similar to Freeza in the way he talks with a polite tone
Frieza should have powered up to the 100% of 100%.
Can't agree. Toguro struck a mean image, and he was certainly shitty enough to do rather horrible things like threatening Yusuke's family just to get a fight with him, but I see him as far less brutish than Freeza. He has a calculated, measured side to him, and not just in brutality. He never overuses his strength, and very rarely displays it outwardly to show his emotions. He uses the amount he needs, does what he needs to do, and doesn't go any further. Toguro looks exactly like the kind of person, once you account for all his behavior, that would wanna get a proper grip on his power. ESPECIALLY when his power is earned from his own effort, not just an inborn quality.
HAY LANSE - Y DO YOO PRONOUNZ SAYEN LIK DAT! HAV U EVUR SEEN DRAGIN BAUL ZEE?????
DAS EGSAKTLY WUT I WUZ "SAYAN"!! HAHA- SEA WUT I DYD DER! ~_~
Geekdom101 excuse me it's actually pronounced space warrior.
Pardon you, it's Saiya-peepo
Garytina oh darn I should of known
Geekdom101 What's with all this talk of rebellion Bardock was a scientist
I remember being so disappointed that the Spirit Bomb didn't do jack shit when I first saw the episode. Like, Freeza is the evilest guy, and this one has way more power than the one used against Vegeta, and that one did serious damage, though it wasn't what finally did him in. This was like hardly anything happened. He got something in his eye and lost the tip of his tail. Ooh. I know that his survival of the attack was a doorway for Super Saiyan, but it could have at least seemed like it was more than a minor inconvenience and severe annoyance to him.
I miss back in the Sayian arc when damage actually matters. Here it is like you said only a minor inconvenience. Hell even Freeza getting sawed in half is treated this way. That problem unfortunately gets worse and worse with each succeeding arc. It is as if Toriyama couldn't raise the stakes and threat without absurd hacks.
I sorta rationalized it as a case of freeza not being evil enough (obviously not true) I picked up when I was initially watching the show and later saw vegetas development and interpreted it as a case of freeza being more of the sadistic dictator that drowns puppies for kicks
Aka, a monster, a bastard, but still one that you can talk to, make alliances with, reason with etc
Which greatly contrasts with later villains like kid buu and omega shenron who are just more or less literal embodiements of evil and chaos; like freeza is a psychopathic killer and kid buu is just a hurricane.
And there's nothing you can really say to hurricane, it killing you is 100% completely impersonal. And many would argue there is a special kind of horror in a monster that just apathetically destroys because it's in its literal nature to do so.
If given a choice, freeza CAN work with others and could choose to be a good guy, the only reason he doesn't is because he genuinely like being a monster
With kid buu, there's be no hope in him even educating the thoughts like freeza did after goku spared him because it's literally not in his nature; that's what the other buu forms were, and that contrast is what's made him a threat
So I interpreted from their that the bomb had to have a special level of power output to actually match the persons amount of evil they were; and goku's with freeza just wasn't strong enough.
Though ik that was 100% not the intention at all, it was just a fake out for fake outs sake
However I'd also like to add that from a meta narrative perspective that it failing just makes it genuinely more satisfying when the thing actually succeeds in nailing buu.
-the rule of 3's
-it being a thing that destroys evil being used on evil incarnate
-it being used on an uber regenerating villain
-it forcing the characters to finally return form and stop stupidly disregarding team work when the literal world is in danger (last time this was done straight was at the very beginning of Z with vegeta and raditz)
-it giving literally every character something to do and utilize their skills even if they aren't a fighter
-it tying back to the series core themes and having the literal win for the universe only being won due to the friends gokus made and the kindness and things he's learned from them etc
In general, its complete hindsight talking but it honestly seems pretty damn wasted in the freeza saga in comparison; I'm glad it failed there.
The freeza arc ending with the super saiyan being hyped up for chapters only to amount to nothing and be killed by the bomb instead just feels anticlimactic as fuck in comparison to the endings we got
Well, I'm certainly not saying that it wasn't a cool moment when it finally destroys Majin Buu, especially since it was proposed by Vegeta, who never got to see the Freeza Genkidama. So he must have been like, "I dunno; that thing fucked me up pretty good. Let's see how Buu handles it."
Aside from Goku's inclusion, I've never had a problem with the Grand Elder's and Kaio's telepathic conversation. Grand Elder can talk to his children, just like Piccolo Daimao could, and Kaio's already been established to be able to talk to basically anybody.
It's only Goku's eavesdropping that's a problem. Maybe, since telepathy is a ki-based ability, he could listen in because he sensed Kaio's ki in the area...? Yeah, that's all I got... They probably could've introduced the "Shenlong/Porunga can't affect anybody stronger than their creator against their will" proviso to keep Goku on Namek.
I think the Grand Elder Dying from his children dying is great because when Tambourine and Cymbal die Piccolo-Daimao physically feels pain from it. So assuming that that trait is a Namakian thing and not a demon thing the Grand Elders death makes a lot sense.
Maybe Goku can feel an approximation on how strong his kaioken is, kinda like how we give approximations on how full our bladders are when we have to pee. As for Freeza, well that is a better point, but I think that Goku with his spiritual sensing abilities could tell how much his power goes up or at least what range it currently is and how high he can go.
I love that example. Thank you for making my day.
I always have the dumbest grind on my face when these show up! :)
ChaddyFantome same
me too
ChaddyFantome Ain't nothing wrong, with a little bump and grind.
ChaddyFantome Ain't nothing wrong, with a little bump and grind.
Uh you mean grin.
At this rate, you'll catch up to TFS in the time it takes them to release another abridged episode Lolol
The question is, will DB-TV (DBZ-TV now?) catch up to TFS?
Pure Rage DBZDTV
you both know they have copyright problems right... don't be insensitive spoiled kids XD
+VixXstazosJOB
It's all in good humour, don't worry :).
VixXstazosJOB everyone knows about the problems its a joke. Even the guys at TFS joke about how long it takes them to make an episode
It doesn't get mentioned here, but I thought the trigger for SS is a bit odd. On paper it's thematic, Goku and the gang thought they had just won the big fight then Frieza shows up and kills Krillin. Seeing the death of his best friend, Goku snaps and triggers the SS transformation. Alright, but isn't that the same way he dealt with Krillins first death? He snaps and goes after the killer. In the original DB, Goku is defeated and must collect himself and find a way to grow stronger. I thought the lesson was Goku needed to assess a situation and know his enemy. Yes, the situation is very different. He hadn't met Tambourine and was quickly beaten. The difference here is Goku just obtains the power to beat Krillins killer.
This is still one of, if not The greatest moment in serialized story history. It's as a fan who's seen it all I see that this was a lesson done before.
Of course, the right answer would be that Goku wasn't written to be a Saiyan at the time. But he was a kid back then and not nearly as strong, plus he didn't actually see Krillin get killed before.
I assumed Goku knew he was a Super Saiyan because he noticed that his bangs were yellow and thought that it must be important. No clue on how he knew you had to be pure of heart, assuming he didn't make that up on the spot.
DBD TV? For the Freeza arc? Man, I am so looking forward to that in 2025! It's gonna be sweet! (Honestly though if your content persisted until then I would have 0 problems, more MistareFusion is always a treat, keep up the great work!)
Freeza effortlessly destroyed the planet in his first and final form.Goku even said that if freeza wanted to he would shoot at the planet again and that would be it.
Something that always struck me is that... Vegeta and Nappa's civilian victims stay dead, don't they? They completely skip over them to wish back those who were killed on Namek. Unless they're somehow grouped since Nappa and Vegeta can be considered "Freeza's men", those guys got screwed, didn't they?
They also later forget all the people Dr. Gero killed when he eye lasered half the island he and android 19 first appeared. They only later wished for victims of cell to be resurrected, so all those people on that island are now dead dead.
@@brandonlyon730 Remember the people Vegeta killed in the Boo arc.
1. Get killed.
2. Get brought back to life.
3. Get killed again.
Get brought back again.
What a terrible two or three days for them.
@@brandonlyon730 Including that guy Vegeta killed when he tried to blast Android 18, he wasn't revived.
This episode could never last long enough. Another great one to your credit. I admire your drive and tenacity. I watch DBD immediately whenever I see an upload. It's amazing that I've had this consistent bright spot for over 4 years and that I can continue to look forward to it, AND the quality has never waned. So thank you. You're A+ in life.
I just wanted to say you're one of the few youtubers I consistently get excited for when a video uploads. Thanks for everything you do, man!
The moment we've all waited for... thanks MistareFusion!!!
These may take a while to come out, but they're worth it. Keep it up dude!
12:32 In addition to that, King Piccolo would suffer pain whenever one of his children got killed. If this is a Namekian trait, then Guru must have taken quite a few hits from his children being killed.
Freeza in 1st form used supernova to destroy planet vegeta because he was far away from it and would not get caught in the blast. He used Death Ball because he wanted to kill goku and destroy the planet while still having enough time to escape
Freeza states that he didn't care if he was caught in the explosion. He can breathe in space and all. Which to me renders his plan to become immortal unnecessary. Since not only that he lives after being sawed in half.
Well, Goku then shit-talks him by saying he was scared of getting caught in the explosion and didin't use enough ki on that attack to destroy it in a second.
I'm ok with kaio-ken using numbers, but frieza saying he's using (insert number here)% of his power is really dumb when not using approximations (like half or full power, ext)
I like Team 4 Star's interpretation that Guru willed himself to die out of spite.
"NAIL!!!"
"Would be a real dick move to die right now. WELP."
It's so sad what super saiyan will become after this. Vegeta will get it as will every saiyan under the sun. We will get 3 grades and 3 more levels. Then we will get 3 forms in their own category.
+Demitri Sackor
And then Toriyama will come up with a b.s. explanation on genetics that answer why Goten, Trunks, Cabba, Caulifla and Kale achieved SSJ easier than Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta...
@@DemonicRemption I never had a problem woth Goten and Trunks doing that. Those other characters you mentioned that is another story.
@@spartanq7781
Is it the back-tingling thing? Because that seems to be a common complaint despite the fact that Kale transformed through rage like Goku, Vegeta, Future Trunks, and Gohan...
@@DemonicRemption No it's that they transform for fanservice (not that kind of fanservice). In the same damn tournament they learn about it. Keep in mind the tournament is an hour or whatever. The tingly back thing is a justification they used when people complained about it.
@@spartanq7781
I really can't argue with that... Mainly because you're right. We demanded female Super Saiyans, and we got them in the forms of Caulifla and Kale. Thus them transforming is pure fan service. Which leads into another reason why I can't argue with this point of yours, because of my qualms with Caulifla and Kale, they're walking archetypes, not characters. Caulifla loves to fight and get stronger because that's what saiyans do, and Kale is shy because reasons.
It's be nice if there was some semblance of character with those two, especially since the seeds are there with their student/master relationship, and the fact that Caulifla leads a gang. But no, why have that when fans were just happy with that fact that they're mere female super saiyans...? -_-
The iconic-ness has kinda had the opposite effect on me, I don't see it as anything special anymore after Goku's initial achievement of it and I think that's ok. Because it... isn't anything special after this. Vegeta harps on about wanting to be one then gets it offscreen in space or whatever, then it's almost immediately outclassed by the following antagonists and Piccolo, and we gotta start introducing levels n shit that also get EVEN MORE immediately outclassed. It's why everyone bitching about when the U6 Saiyans got them in Super and how "it made the form less special" annoyed me because the shit stopped being special decades ago lol. SS1 is the BARE MINIMUM any decently strong Saiyan should be able to achieve and it's been like that since Toriyama's editor in Cell saga started roasting his antagonist designs. I don't give a fuck how mad Goku was when he did it, or how angry Gohan was for SS2 (the thing that made him angry was stupid anyway, I like 16 and all but how was HIS death what made the fight against Cell personal for Gohan all of a sudden?). And I know everyone knee jerked at "tingly backs" but that answered the question I've had since I was a kid on "if rage is necessary, how come all subsequent uses they just squat and scream and boom blonde?". Sometimes they don't even do the squatting part lol. I was happy to learn a little bit more on that process with channeling their ki to certain point on their body then releasing, and Cauliflower being taught that shortcut by someone who's had the form makes it work. But then a while later Toriyama hit us with the "S-Cells" nonsense to explain how Often and Kid Trunks got it so easy and then it reached over explanation territory done after the fact cause someone asked to me.
Ahem, but back to my main point, yeah SS was cool the first time, but I personally find it hard to hold it to the same reverence as when I was a kid and find it weird so many ppl still do when in the story itself it lost that reverence quick. Oh and SS4 is the cooler design.
Well, no matter what you think, the SSJ transformation, well, the anime version really is considered the most iconic moment in anime, and the design to this day is still iconic and influential. That's why it's still highly regarded.
Worth the wait! And nice editting!
The one year thing was because Vegeta and Nappa had killed SO many people across the universe during their lifetimes that it is beyond the dragon's power to get them all at once. There is no time limit implied by that statement, but a body count limit.
I know I say this on practically every DBD video, but another great video Lance!
Another thing to consider about the Grand Elder’s death is Piccolo Daimao. When Piccolo’s children died he was physically pained by it. So I can easily buy that the Grand Elder, already nearing the end of his natural lifespan, would die from the pain of experiencing almost 100 of his children being slaughtered in quick succession. Maybe it’s a mazoku trait, but we don’t see any examples to prove or counter this so I think it could work if you wanted a more tangible explanation for his death
*Another great video!*
8:07 That moment is great!
And I had never thought that about telepathy.
I hope you talk about that myth that Toriyama had thought finished the series in this bow.
even if guru told krillin about how to summon the dragon they still need dende because none of them can speak the nemekian toung.
1:34 The next episode preview of the TV series also showed that Freeza survived.
As always so many great insights and point, plus some neat trivia!
Also great points on it not really working with sayian biology, heh, imagine if Super Sayian was actually just a powerful warrior ascending to a new height and a super Namekian and human would get the same effect XD
@@vazak11 "And Goku can do it without sneezing?!"
I did exactly what you said at the punching percentage part, and I now know what a 17% power punch feels like.
And congrats on 10K subs!
I like the new transitions you used 'well done Lance
14:01 This criticism is unfair IMO. In fact, I think that having Krillin speak out the wish would be plot convenience. Learning how to properly pronounce a new language takes time. E.g. even Dutch pronunciation generally takes a long time for English people to learn, and both those languages are Germanic. Namekian is a totally unrelated language spoken by an unrelated species so it is likely that it would have taken hours in order to teach Krillin how to properly pronounce the wish, if he could learn it at all. Dende travelling there really was the option that made the most sense.
Just commenting to support Lance.
I always took that Frieza look as him being frustrated rather than exerting. Also it baffles me that people say Super Saiyan is an out of nowhere asspull with all the foreshadowing.
I don't think this is a bad page layout when Freeza comes back from taking the Genki Dama. We just got freaked out by Krilin, only for it to have been a comic relief moment, so we're pretty sure that Freeza is gone....and then BAM he's there! I mean if I had turnt the page on Krilin freaking out for the second time, I would already have known that Freeza would be back and it would have taken the surprise away. On the other hand, with this layout I was really shocked because I was "relieved" when I turnt the page. What's more, it feels like I'm seeing see Freeza on the left while the characters are yet to do so, which kinda adds to the tension. Great vid btw!
WOO! Mistare Fusion is back with another Dissection!
Hey thanks for examine the 5 minutes and dead for more than a year thing MistareFusion.
I've seen people defend the 5 minutes thing by saying the characters are super fast, so we're actually seeing things super slow. So when they sit there talking, are they talking super fast? Are the lighting bolts and lava movements and water flowing into craters and rocks falling also happening super fast? It seems like if the characters were moving so fast that they did everything in a few minutes, then a lot of the stuff we see the planet doing would be moving in slow motion. Like, bits of water/lava/rocks would just be levitating in the air as if time was frozen.
Finally, the Super Saiyan episode!
I’ll give this video 37% of my attention
I was expecting this to be the episode where you delve into your overall opinion of transformations and what they mean in the grand scheme of things, was it a mistake to create Supersaiyan in the first place, etc. Are you saving that for when we start getting more supersaiyans or stages of it or just a separate stand alone video all together?
Regardless another great episode, keep it up~
Best Labor Day gift ever
7:06
I saw someone online who took that quote literally and said that this quote means that Toriyama wanted to end the series right at that exact moment in the series lol 😆
6:40 I can rest in peace knowing someone has *_finally_* critiqued the original Japanese version of the "I am" speech instead of defaulting to "grrr Japanese version is perfect (insert unnecessary explicitives)". I'm not defending the dub changes, but how is this *_not_* a heroic out-of-character speech in its own right? Heck, at least the Funimation version was consistent with its characterization of Goku. It's a shame they never redubbed the Frieza arc pre-Kai to make it palatable. I personally enjoy the Funimation Z dub as a "different continuity" from the original series.
Question: How is a warrior awoken by rage heroic? Goku told Freeza I came for the sole purpose of beating you. I don't think superman would say that
Also You can't say Im not defending then proceed to defend it. Thats like iM saying I agree with you and then tell you why you are wrong.
But he's not defending it. He just explaining how the dubs speech made sense for that goku. Spekaing of which, the problem with the speach in general is that it feels to self-important for the likes of goku.
Because Goku rejected his Sayian heritage quite vehemently in the previous arc, after all if Goku only wished for a fight WHY did he chastised a split in half Freeza for his past actions?
@@jacksonpeds5298 he killed krillin that's why
@@maxillebastille9079 you ever heard of righteous anger?
Is it just me or should have the kaioken times 20 kamehameha replaced the GenkiDama.
1. The kaioken just looks cooler and more dramatic
2. The double fake out is just annoying
3. It makes the use of the GenkiDama in the Buu saga more surprising
*Genkidama
*Kaioken
But yeah, agreed!
Joshua Yule Right, Right!
Snorlax 444 Denki-dama (Electricity Ball) sounds like a pretty gnarly attack concept. Think about it. The larger the ball gets, the more voltage. It would frie everyone in the vicinity. Think of the damage output in a place like Namek where most of everything is covered in water.
Yes, I know I misspelled the attack names! I edited my comment to have the right spelling.
Snorlax 444 I know people have been bugging you about it in the comments. I still think Denki-dama is still a cool idea. Come to think of it, the small versions against Vegeta and Turles had a visual effect that made it look like they were being electrocuted.
So something I always wondered was whether they ever revived the people Nappa killed. I mean he did wipe out a city and these wishes didn’t revive Ten, Yamcha and Chaotzu. So I guess Nappa doesn’t count as a minion of Freeza. Which makes sense but still. Maybe the deaths of those 3 just don’t count as being caused by Nappa, since 2 of them were technically suicides and Yamcha was killed by a saibaiman.
I imagine someone mentioned it (I'm binge catching up) but isn't "Oozaru" "Giant Monkey"? So the tail fits.
14:12 kiao can telepathically converse with everyone regardless of species and others can telepathically converse through kiao this is how Goku bites in on there conversation.
Yeah, but just because I invite someone into a Zoom meeting doesn't mean they can peep on me when I'm in the shower. Kaio is having a conversation that has nothing to do with Goku that he did not include Goku in, yet Goku is somehow able to just break into it without Kaio's knowledge or consent.
@@MistareFusion Kaio really should use VPN.
15:05 But Napa and Vegeta took an entire year of space travel to get to Earth so there was no killing for at least a calendar year.
Unless you count the anime filler of that bug planet.
In fact the only planet could be revived is whatever planet Napa and Vegeta were on when Raditz was killed.
In regards to the "Goku dealing with mathematics for Kaioken" things, I think it's less of him doing calculations in his head and more so just him knowing that higher numbers mean stronger Kaioken. He's learned how to count to at least 30 as a kid, and I can see Kaiosama dumbing down the explanation of the technique like that for Goku to understand.
Yeah, Goku dodging Frieza's Death Beams shouldn't have been a shock or a feat since he was able to deflect it in base form earlier. That was something I never thought about.
8:07 KURIRIN NO KOTO KAAAAAAAAAA
Holy shit omg finally ice waited soooo much!
That intro song brings back memories
Maybe when the dragon says “speak your wish” they mean it literally. So using telepathy doesn’t count.
While I can't speak on the freeza counting upwards thing. I always saw the Kaioken as just some sort of weird multiplier. Like when you access it and then he goes x2, x3, x4 he's just kicking the technique up a notch. With something as abstract as a god given magical strength multiplier I have a certain amount of leeway for Goku knowing the extent to which he's multiplying his abilities. He's probably just stacking the ability on top of itself or something absurd.
Wait, why wasn't I notified about this new episode!?? Why does UA-cam say I unsubscribed!!? This is hearsay!! UA-cam shall pay!!
Well, you're in luck in a way. Since the next episode comes out tomorrow, that means you won't have to wait very long to continue.
Talk about timing!
The answer is simple, Goku was merely bragging that he's a Super Saiyan to play off Frieza's fears and thus mock him, to grind the salt in the wound just a little harder.
B-But Mistare, you've gotta understand Freeza was performing under stress when he tried to destroy Namek, hence why he couldn't one shot it.
14:20 Okay, but can you actually imagine Guru contacting Kirllen through telepathy and trying to get him summon Porunga only for Namekian being way too hard to pronounce for him? Imagine you had to make a wish in Chinese and there was a native speaker right beside you that you had to mimic exactly to get the right wish. Don't think I'd bank on it. Do the Earthlings even have the right organs to speak Nameikian (well beyond names)?
for the 1st form being better than final form in destroying planets, dragon ball abridged gave a nice explanation when they showed it
I actually think the page layout works because WE notice Freeza and the very same time Krillin does. One moment he mentions Bulma, then he looks in the other direction and just _sees_ him. It quick and it's like a 'wtf is going on.' It's also down uniquely. Notice how Piccolo is talking, but Krillin most likely didn't pay any attention because of What he saw. I can reference SO many other manga who do the Character surprise--> reader reveal. But the inverted let's us react simultaneously WITH Krillin.
It could have been composed differently, But, I like the concept.
I think it would be pretty cool if for the intro of db dissection in the cell arc you use the song that plays out when gohan turns into super saiyan 2 for the first time (it's called Day of Destiny ~Spirit vs Spirit) :3
No idea if you are still reading comments here, but I read the contrast of transformations - ape versus SSJ - as an (likely unintentional) parallel to that of the concept of how evolution functions in our world. The ape transformation is strong yes, but it is also primal and prone to removing consciousness from the user with only Vegeta being shown to have overcome it. In other words, you become strong but dumb, much like an actual ape when compared to a human. It could be considered de-evolution even.
The default form is that of a human-like figure - strong but not as strong yet vastly more intelligent which in most circumstances is favorable. After all, the ape form has been defeated each time by a human-like character through their wits and not simply overpowering it.
Ssj on the other hand is more like the next stage in a Saiyan's evolution. I love to point out as well (no matter how revolting it might be) that the SSJ, at least originally, had blonde hair and BLUE eyes - a perhaps careless oversight yet still clear reference to a certain man's "perfect" type of human. The "perfect" evolved human-like figure.
This is actually one of the few instances where Dragon Ball Super builds on its predecessors themeing, and is what really gives credence to this reading. After all, what is next on the evolutionary line after
humanity if not godhood? Ssj Blue represents this ascension (even if the form itself is lazy as hell).
So basically: Ape - Human - Perfect Human - god. It fits rather well thematically with how the forms are represented.
Ssjg as well, arguably the true form of ascension before stacking ssj on top of it to make Blue.
I think I heard that the 5 minutes thing was due to a misjudgment in Freeza's part. He blew up Planet Vegeta from way out in space, and probably wasn't quite as confident that he could survive the blast of his attack if he was on the planet's surface like on Namek. This led him to not put as much power into the death ball thing and then he made the 5 minutes thing up on the spot to save face.
It could be argued that Super Saiyan improved Goku's Stamina at the time
Are you telling us that SS4 is a better logical transformation look? Because i will be with you there xD
SS4 looks like a natural evolution of a Sayian. It is a hybrid of their normal and great ape forms. It's why I love it so much and why it's my favorite SS form.
Ok so in my opinion, the reason Freeza's technique doesn't immediately destroy planet Namek is because he has TOO much power in it. In reality, if a large asteroid strikes a planet, energy is released in an explosion on impact relative to its size. An event where an asteroid or planetoid with the size and mass comparable to Mars striking Earth, such as the Theia-impact would have released several teratons of TNT (about 4 x 10^31 joules!!) which is pretty much planet-altering (considering Earth's gravitational force). This is close to what we see Freeza do to planet Vegeta, PLUS we know that planet Vegeta's gravity is 10 times greater than Earth's so for sure planet buster.
Now think about Freeza being on Planet Namek generating an impactor with a GREATER amount of density and energy, (because Freeza is fully transformed and whatnot) and propelling it faster than the planet's escape velocity, which I assume is about 11.2 m/s (Bulma walks around easily so Namek's gravitational force must be similar to Earth's, considering its size and atmospheric density) and because Dragon Ball isn't TOO realistic or scientific (ahem...Future Trunks) This impact could be SO energetic that it could travel through the planet instead of vaporizing on impact. This could explain the panels showing rocks falling away from the bottom of the planet and the HUGE HOLE Goku and Freeza fight over. The planet could just last that way for a while.
Think of a wall being hit with a wrecking ball vs. a bullet.
I could go on...
Yay!
YES
I love that introduction music it's freeza
Goku knowing his kaio ken output isn't so ridiculous. Maybe he's just a genius when it comes to fighting. And math when applied to fighting. Hitting his head as a kid must have made him a savant.
Dude you can read in Japanese. How did oh learn if so!!!! I also loved Freeza's arc as Planet Namek is my favorite fictional planet in all of fiction. I love the green landscape
Oh man never noticed that about super saiyan getting the text box like villains!
I would have assumed it was just the transition into drawing everything all polygonal to make it easier to deal with sudden pains interrupting a long pen stroke or whatever.
Whoa, having only seen the anime I had NO idea Frieza could regrow his tail, he never displays this ability in the anime for some reason. Unless we count him going into his final form regrowing it. Oddly going from forms 2-3 didn't have the same impact.
The year thing is that a single person can be wished back after over a year, but multiple people cannot. So when Resurrection F brings Frieza back in pieces, its because Shenron hates him like everyone else
5:03 with that in mind Mistare Fusion, I'd like to ask, what are your thoughts (if any) on super Saiyan 4? I think it's a very logical transformation that does a good job establishing that otherwise missing connection. I also love how it's trigger is the opposite of the first form. Super Saiyans are born from rage. But SSJ 4's are born from love
I think the whole Frieza percentage thing is just Frieza himself just giving a general guess to his exact percentage. Frieza isn't the type of person to embrace the mystic elements of power, so I think it's fitting that he'd assign arbitrary numbers to something like ki
Meh, it would've been better if he just didn't list numbers, like how Goku didn't say "Genki-Dama charging...Piccolo, we're at 76%-just 34 more seconds!" Just a ballpark like "almost there..." would've sufficed.
yeah, but I feel like the arbitrary numbers fit Frieza's personality more, obviously it wouldn't work for others
Well, I pretty much mostly agree with a lot of this, though I have two points I want to point and maybe one of them you already figured it.
First and only mentioned because you mentioned it, Padme didn't really die of a broken heart, it was just for DRAMATIC emphasis to justify shitty medical droids in a backwater asteroid. The official reason before the reboot was that Vader's Force choking her is what killed her because it left permanent damage, which is also shown in the movie by her labored breathing. The aforementioned shitty droids didn't catch it and thus decided to half ass an explanation.
Anyway, on to something more serious and relevant, it's probably more to do with the fact that King Kai was using his telepathy to connect the Grand Elder to Dende. The Grand Elder is telepathic, after all he read Krillin's thoughts, but had to do so by touching him, so he might not be as powerful as King Kai, and much like how Professor X needs Cerebro to amplify his powers, King Kai could used his powers to amplify the Grand Elders. After all, he was established as the most powerful telepath and even though he does need people to touch him for them to communicate through him, it might just be for convenience than anything else. And Goku is also a telepath, so it's not to hard to guess how he hijacked the communication. It's not really that complicated.
Feels like a whole lot of "coulda" at this point
The Saiyans came to earth on their own accord, not Frieza's. So the Earthlings wouldn't count as people killed indirectly by Frieza.
Is this a response to something I said in the video or to someone else's comment? Because if the former, I never said anything to suggest that they would be.
I thought you said everyone including the Earthlings should've came but to life with the wish to revive everyone killed by Frieza.
Nope. Never said anything like that.
I must've misheard then. My bad.
You've piqued my curiosity, though. If you'd like to send a timestamp or a quote, I'd be happy to clarify.
I actually was pissed about the concept of SSJ being a transformation before its reveal. I have seen a picture of it in one of those movie comics such as of DBZ movie 5 magazine. To me Goku's hair was one of the most iconic things about his character, but that changed once I saw SSJ in action and how it affected Goku's. Both SSJ and SSJ4 were forms I was against being introduced and came to love at the end.
Retroactively, I feel like it made more sense if Gohan became one based on how he was build up the entire series those far.
Btw, how did Shenlong get summoned? Did a year passed since Goku was brought back to life? I don't recall such a large time skip in the Frieza Arc
Kami had just come back to life, so it's possible that the Dragon Balls were activated as well, as some kind of "reset button" effect. Or he could just have reawaken the balls himself, since the creator can do such a thing on special occasions (see the end of the Piccolo Daimaoh arc).
I do wish that the misconception about the dragon balls resurrecting a person only within a year of their death was true, as it would give death more of a consequence in the Dragon Ball story.
lol Piccolo coming to fight Freeza probably WAS a Stupid choice, but I did like the danger of Piccolo possibly dying at this point in the story. The danger of that would mean that there would be no more dragon balls period.
I also really like the whole strategy of using both sets of dragon balls to save the day. It may be my favourite part of the climax since so many things were at stake on this risk.
But instead of Kaio-Sama coming up with that idea; I wish that it had been Yamucha and Tenshinhan who came up with the strategy. After all they are supporting protagonists of the story, not Kaio.
All Toriyama did with them was just have them stand around doing nothing. You could say that Yamucha and Tenshinhan were treated like “dead weight”.
Since they have more knowledge about Earth’s dragon balls and were being told all of the events on Namek by Kaio, maybe Yamucha and Tenshinhan could’ve come up with the plan to resurrect everyone on Namek and use Namek’s dragon balls to take everyone from there to Earth. It would have been a heroic choice on their part; possibly giving up their chances of getting resurrected for the greater good.
Heres a rule thats never spoken about the dragonballs but must be true: if shenron dies the year timer is reset. He brings back those killed by piccolo at most a day or two after Piccolo killed him after wishing for youth. Here, he brings back those killed by freeza a few months after being used to revive Goku.
its clearly not that Kami can have him grant extra wishes on the fly, cause if thats the case they wouldnt need this plan hoping Guru and Porunga would come back