A Hero's Clone - Dragon Ball Dissection: Goku's Side Story! Siu Xing Qiu is a Testament to Courage
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- It's time for the GT special! No, it's not the GT movie. There is no GT movie. But there is this. Set well into the future, Goku Jr. is a wuss who embarrasses his grandmother, Pan. But it's okay because all it takes is one coming-of-age journey to turn him into a Super Saiyan. Conform! Conform to your family's legacy!
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/ mistarefusion
Fitting that your last video before Toriyama’s passing is focused on the end of an era. Fly high, Akira; may your version of heaven be as wonderful and full of adventures as the one you created
It's really interesting to me how all three hour-something Dragon Ball specials (Bardock, Trunks and the GT one) tell such a drastically different, much more down-to-earth story than the main series. What could be grating in a different context works really well in contrast to what Dragon Ball is known for. The protagonists of these stories exist under a status quo completely alien for DB characters: they are relatively weak, oppressed by their overpowering opposition, rarely get into any big fights they can win by just getting strong enough, and have to consider more grim things DB characters normally don't think about, because those things are just a casual part of their reality. How can I prevent the inevitable doom of my people, how can I do justice to my dead teacher I was too weak to save, how can I survive in a large scary world where everything is a threat to me all alone. It's refreshing to see the perspective of people who exist in scenarios where Goku can't just come in and save the day, and it's no wonder these stories are often considered some of the best of what came out of the franchise.
yeah honestly i wish we got more dragon ball stories like that nowadays
And the thing is the main series taps into this alot but never follows through, because I genuinely believe it's at its best when the non-Goku characters are struggling and strategising against threats (king piccolo, saiyans, freeza, cell) but then it's all fixed by Goku at the end, so we never get the pay off that we get in these specials
It is funny how a large chunk of Gohan's fans are never happy when he's happy.
Those are the kind of fans who don't really understand who Gohan is and just want him to be the "badass" who killed Cell. Never mind the fact that Gohan himself lamented everything about that fight.
I heard someone make a somewhat interesting point in regards to Gohan. If he was real, then yeah, him getting what he wants is great. But he's not. He's a fictional character in a series that is(at this point at least) largely about fighting.
So if he's off living his happy peaceful life, then you're not likely to see him at all, much less doing something cool. And for at least a certain percentage of the fanbase, they just want to see their favorite characters doing cool things.
@austinschmidt8054 Ah I see you also watch Ki Moments. But fr tho, some people just wanna watch their fav character kick ass without treating them like real people. And hey, as a Vegeta fan, I respect that.
@@AxelsAndGears Yeah lol. I mean you don't need to look much further than Yamcha to see what happens to characters that aren't actively into fighting, though even that doesn't always save you.
I guess my question to fans of Gohan who just want him to live his quiet scholar life is: Would you be ok with that if it meant he stopped making regular appearances or was just basically written out like most of the other earthlings? Is that really a better outcome for a character that you like?
@@EmeralBookwise It's kinda upsetting that he just got shoved as not that different than a side-character when the entirety of DBZ is more so the story of Gohan than the story of Goku at times.
Him defeating Cell and turning into a normal college kid with superpowers is cool, but he just sided hard by Goku's reappearance and then he is never plot-relevant again.
Most DBZ characters end up happy, but their fans are always lamenting that they go underused.
(not a gohan fan btw)
I ADORE the detail that not long after mentioning that Yamcha's VA voices the bully we get a Poor Dolt gag. Gotta love consistency in the weirdest places.
honorary poor dolt
I wasn't really pissed about Pan never becoming a Super Saiyan, until now.
At this point it kinda just feels like sexism, I mean...most shonen are pretty sexist, but still
@@cryguy0000 That is not it at all.
Same. I keep finding more and more reasons that it should've happened every time I try to let it go
Her back didn't tingle hard enough.
@@mechajay3358 then what is it
I'm surprised you didn't mention how insanely dedicated Goku Jr. is to retro gaming, he somehow managed to find a CRT and SNES that are still functional after a hundred years.
Who knows, maybe in the 2100's retro gaming will become even more accessible.
@@prometheusmodelow8322 Depends on how "authentic" you want your retro to be. Today, it is plenty accessible to build a retro snes emulation deck with look alike controllers and case. Not as trivial as walk into a store re and buy one, but not a lot of customs. This is the one extreme. Now, the other extreme would be actual original parts only, and that would be an absolutely nope, thibgs degrade, it only gets rarer, so it is not a useful path to pursue. Instead, we set the other end a step above, clone consoles. This not so inaccessible today either, it is just not a mainstream popular topic. But a hobbyist today with a little spare time and cash can find their ways around building those. Some old consoles like the NES were built entirely with off the shelf components iirc, and designing your own boards and just having a company manufacture that for you is a few clicks away, I am pretty sure we can all pretend it is 80-90s Brazil and pull a CCE and make our own if we really wanted to.
I am presenting this as a gradient (i.e. linearz one axis), but in realy a spectrum (i.e. multiple axes). There is all sorts of emulation and hardware "cloning". But I am keeping it simple. Point is, unless you're going for delusional levels of purism, or worse brand loyalty borderline worship ("I accept modern made reolicas but only if it is from the original company" nonsense), even today it is already decently accessible, it just lacks mainstream notoriety, in good part due to legal bs. So yeah, it can only become more accessible in a few years.
Wasn't the PlayStation and N64 already out by then? Why would they have an old game system like the Super Famicom for Goku Jr. to be playing in 1997?
@@JuanVasquezhasreturned Consoles tends to last longer on japan, by 1997 the SNES was still getting new games in japan only so it's reasonable a kid would have a SNES.
A good example is Mega Man & Bass, came out in 1998 in japan, and only got to america through a GBA port in 2002 because by 1998 the console was obsolete in the west.
Would have been even better if he'd gotten ahold of a SEGA Saturn, considering the fact that it was current-gen to the viewers at the time.
My biggest headcanon is that the bears that Goku Jr. saves are the descendants of Bear With A Sword that Goku beat up way back in the day
That's a good theory nice
You know what's sad Goku Jr has more character development then Goten.
while looking exactly the same lmao
Since I doubt I'll get another chance to discuss this Special, I'm going to do a little nitpicking.
That photo of Pan holding the four-star Dragon Ball becomes a mini plot-hole in the context of the entire series.
Giru appears in the photo, so it has to have been taken after the Baby arc. But after the Baby arc the Dragon Balls were cracked, how was Pan able to take a photo (in the middle of nowhere by the way) with an undamaged Dragon Ball?
That's a very good point.
it's also not a random location in one of the shots, it's in front Grandpa Gohan's old house.
@@ghoulchan7525 Which is literally "the middle of nowhere" for Pan who probably lives on the other side of the world.
Why would she go there? Why would she bring a Dragon Ball there? Why would she even take a photo with a Dragon Ball specifically in that place?
I feel like that reinforces the idea that this special wasn’t written with the Evil Dragons in mind.
The long-running rumor about GT is that it was supposed to end after episode 40, but that Toei decided to give it another 20+ episodes to coincide with the Final Bout video game. Assuming that rumor is true (I don’t think there are any official statements backing this up), then this special was likely well into production by the time Toei made that decision, and that tease at the end of episode 40 with the cracked Dragon Balls might’ve been a last minute addition.
@@BlasckkIt's where her grandpa, the person she grew to care about over the course of GT, grew up. The four star ball was significant to Goku because of grandpa Gohan, so it honestly would be weirder if Pan didn't understand that.
I honestly didn't mind the Super Saiyan transformation since I took it to be a little more metaphorical. The transformation comes typically at watershed moments for each character, like Gohan unlocking Super Saiyan 2 when he resolves that he has to defeat Cell in order to protect the people and places he loves. I think if you see it not as him needing a battle-focused transformation to save the day, but as a visual representation of his emotional development, it actually works pretty well.
you just blew my mind with the dragon ball evolution comparison
The way you sounded when you described Goku Jr. going Super Saiyan is like the same feelings characters have in American Dad when the mysterious one-off character just turns out to be a persona of Roger.
"He has to fight these guys and he reaches deep down an-SHIT It's Super Saiyan, it's gonna be super saiyan."
BAM
"all right you ingrates listen up -I AM THE HOPE OF THE UNIVERSE-"
I always took Jrs unlocking of the Super Saiyan form to be the classic narrative reward for a character overcoming their (current) narrative flaw, but the scene with Goku to be the sign that Jr still has more room to grow. Interesting to hear someone just not think of it like that.
Also I really like seeing how the world of Dragon Ball is aging, but still staying the same. Though that might just be thanks to how limited a scope we see of it.
Also also, it has been awhile since I've seen this so maybe they explain themselves, but why are demons hanging out around Mt Paozu? Is this a Dragon Ball Online thing or a tie-in/reference with that Dragon Ball filler episode where Goku fights demons?
Dragon Ball Online was not even remotely on anyone’s radar when this was written. It is probably a reference to the filler or else just a way to make the place more mystical since the series hadn’t really used demons in forever.
@@AislingNightmareAdditionally Dragon Ball online takes place on a completely different continuity from GT.
Dragon Ball's world is just full of weird magic guys like that, even if the later stuff doesn't lean into it as much.
@@YossarianVanDriverthe only *real* contradiction between canons is Buu, to be fair. idk, i like to imagine that the GT stuff could’ve still happened here somehow. fuck it, maybe Mrs. Buu exists offscreen during GT the whole time lol
9:45 clearly she has to, in honor of the father's family. Since mr. *Satan* had already convinced Gohan and Videl to name their daughter "Pandemonium" he had no problem with it.
I honestly think Jr forgetting about the super saiyan experience is a nod to his gohan ancestry (and even Goku’s great ape moments)
I don't know why but this special (and subsequently the ending of GT) makes me a bit emotional because I know that since this takes places decades after the end of the entire series, it means that everyone we've grown to know and love are all dead, except presumably the immortal characters like Roshi and Karin. It's really sad thinking that Kuririn, Bulma, Vegeta, Tenshinhan, Yamcha etc are all dead, and no one even mentions it or acknowledges it.
Who’s to say that the dragon team didn’t live long lives? They might’ve obtained the elixir that the Muten Roshi used.
That's how long time spans work. No one will remember any of us 100 years after we're gone and no except for historians think about the titans of more than 100 years ago either.
That's what makes these so emotional
@@bgvo4373 In GT's canon, it doesn't seem their style. Krillin is clearly an old man. And OP is right, it's depressing knowing all of them are dead. It also gives Goku's appearance more weight.
I love this special and I agree that having Jr go Super Saiyan almost ruins the entire point of the story.
But what really carries this Special back into greatness is that the Dragon Ball’s AREN’T used.
It slots in perfectly with the already established but soon to be fleshed out idea that the DB’s shouldn’t be the solution to every problem.
If he had used the DB’s to save Pan and Puck, it would have ruined the entire Special and character for me.
"A artist vanishes in a distant, astonishing light... His name, Akira Toriyama, the humble manga prince."
Puck was a refreshing change of pace for a guest party member in a Dragon Ball cast member. He's no saint but not at all a stereotypical obnoxious brat who has to be browbeaten or humiliated just to force along marginal growth. He's sort of like Oolong as the delinquent older brother only tamer with no lechery. Just a shame he was thrown out of the story so abruptly just to turn up fine in the end. Not saying I'm not relieved he survived and I’m glad he goes on to cheer Goku Jr. on in the epilogue of GT, but his actual death in the special would have possibly encouraged some more growth from the latter.
Next time: It's the return of Flieza and SAL. And by far the weakest arc of the original trilogy of DB shows.
Crazy that this video came out when it did.
Something that always confused me about Goku Jr was his relation to Pan. Is Pan his grandma or great-great grandma? I don't think the special explicitly says any relation beyond "grandma." (though Goku counts more than 2 greats when talking to Jr.) But in GT's final episode they say that Goku Jr. is Pan's great-great grandson. I wonder if it was always meant to be that way or it was changed for some reason. There's really nothing to lose by simply making Pan his grandmother, other than having a less realistic/clean 100 year timeskip. If she's his great-great-grandma then it makes it really weird that Goku Jr. has no parents, grandparents, great grandparents, or any relatives in between that.
That's a good point. Truth be told, I had forgotten that the final episode either expounds on this or contradicts it. As far as I saw it, Goku's stumbling over how many greats to add was just Goku being Goku, not necessarily an accurate representation of his lineage. Well, for right now, I'm just going to say I'm taking this special at its word right now, and hopefully I'll remember to address the follow-up when I get to the last episode! :-D
It's a little weird that Giru isn't still alive. He's one of the few characters who could be. Is it because Baby destroyed him, and this was written before they came up with the concept of Trunks repairing him?
I will die on the theory that Puck is the descendant of a bastard Yamcha had because it is really funny to me.
It's a good thing Puck was wearing his helmet!
Yeah, one of the 1st things I notice about DB Evolution is that: Did they adapt the wrong Goku? Because this dude is more like Goku Jr(with a dash of highschool Gohan) than OG Goku
Guess they had their hearts set on a "relatable" character
I always thought they tried to make him more like Superman or Spider-Man.
@@AmitCinematicUniverse DBE Goku like Goku Jr: goes to school, is insecure, afraid of bullies(for a different reason: Jr is truly afraid of his bully while DBE Goku isn't, just hate the guy), live with a grandparent, search for the dragon balls; like Gohan: also goes to school, has problem with the jock(because they both want to hide their power, though Gohan doesn't hate his jock), has problem with girls, his girlfriend also love to fight in a tournament(this is a Videl's trait; in OG DB, Chichi only joined the tournament to find Goku)
@@AmitCinematicUniverse You are probably right. I doubt the maker of DBE had enough knowledge of the franchise to even know Goku Jr. This is just a huge coincidence
I had never heard about this special and groaned when you said Goku Junior turns into a Super Sayan. But a lot of the story up to that point seems delightful
The fact you ended up uploading THIS review, of all things, four days after...you know...while hardly anyone knew this at the time...is a form of bizarre coincidence I doubt anyone will ever be able to match, omg...
Its strangely poetic
A Hero's Legacy will always be in my Top 3 Dragon Ball stories because it truly commits to the passage of time. So much time passes that the inevitable march of time is what wipes out our heroes, not a bad guy. All of our time will come some day, and there is a beautiful bittersweet melancholy to that fact. A Hero's Legacy is a cute, simple, back-to-basics story that I will never not love.
Rest In Peace, Toriyama. We all loved you
I love this special, I find it so charming and emotional, one of the few times something Dragon Ball related made me tear up
I wouldn't call this a guilty pleasure, I'd just say it straight up. This is one of my all-time favourite Dragon Ball stories. It's in my Top 3.
One of my favourite aspects about the series, and what got me so interested in it in the first place was the wacky world, crazy characters, and the genuine sense of adventure that permeates so strongly throughout the very beginning of Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball is one of the most interesting intellectual properties, because it starts out as an adventure comedy, and then goes on a crazy adventure with all sorts of twists and turns you simply wouldn't see in any other story. Like how the passage of time is key to moving onto the next plot points, and how the characters age, and how different things are focused on, ie: Less comedy, more adventure, less adventure more action, even more action and more drama, etc. Dragon Ball itself is an adventure, and then to end it chronologically with one last adventure is so sick.
Since everyone has passed away due to simple old age, the cast is scaled back and you as the audience member get to see Pan grow old. It's very viscerally satisfying, and while they do cash in on nostalgia by making the main character literally be named Goku Jr, he gets a lot of personality across in his first showing. The genuinely absurd world of Dragon Ball's Earth cannot be invalidated by insane power levels. Jr. is by all accounts a chump that cannot fight. He's a poor fighter and a scaredy cat so the genuine dangers of Dragon Ball's Earth come front and centre. I love that the last hunt for the Dragon Balls is a shake up and is the search for a single ball because Jr. doesn't really know how they work. This feels like Dragon Ball to me. Everything is just excellent and I love it so much, and I always will. It's a brisk but emotional story that's over before an hour even passes. So sick.
It kinda does says a lot that the television specials put more effort into the story, characters and plot than the Z movies ever did.
Very good analysis, shame you didn't feel all connected to it though. It is one of my absolute favourite pieces of DB media.
About the SSJ transformation, I think it's just a visual representation of him finishing his character arc. It's a cheap but easy method of "show don't tell", and the story does make it clear he still needs a lot of work even after the story concludes.
My headcanon was always that Goku Jr. was a straight-up reincarnation of Goku, and that was how he was able to go Super Saiyan. Same with Vegeta Jr. in the final episode.
R.I.P TORIYAMA 🕊
I like Zoomer Goku, he wants to spend more time playing Fortnite than being a martial artist alien monkey boy that his boomer grandma.
I also like the slight tinge of melancholy this special has with all of the original cast being long dead forever, Grandpa Gohan's shack becoming dilapidated.
You’re not that smart
@@TheGeoXWarStill makes me smarter than you.
Rip Akira Toriyama
Your comment is the reason I even found out omg
Rest in power Akira toriyama you were a legend and we'll all remember you with love forever
10:16 in funi english he's voiced by a dude named Adrian Cook, a dude who voices minor background characters like a mr. satan fan in bojack unbound and a villager in broly second coming. he's more of an audio mixer behind the scenes lad in animes than he does voice acting.
11:30 fun fact about that giant lizard trying to eat goku, in funi english he's voiced by peter mayhew. the original chewbacca. this is his only voice role in all of dragonball. i don' t know how this happened
Is Adrian Cook related to Justin Cook at all?
@@thehussiteking searching up info about adrian cook mentions no family ties nor does searching up justin cook info, it'd be funny if true but it could just be coincidence given how many last names are shared across unrelated families i.e. smith.
As I recall, FUNimation made a big deal out of Peter Mayhew’s involvement back in the day, despite him voicing an irrelevant henchman whose name I don’t even think is ever spoken in the actual special.
@@adama.7735well that's embarrassing
As a fan of Super Sentai and Kamen Rider, trying to distinguish between movies, TV specials, and DTV material is something that I just kinda throw my hands up and say "I don't care as long as I'm able to watch it subtitled".
I have never heard a person speak such truth before lmao
You couldn’t imagine that this is the last DB-related video you released (via Patreon) during Toriyama‘s lifetime.
No, not in the slightest. What an absolute shock.
Mistar fusion this isnt a drill we just lost akira toriyama!! 😭
This is by far my favourite design of any Goku clone. That's not saying much but still.
Did that lead to Goku's look in the next Dr. Slump show?
@@BagOfMagicFoodCool, another that’s aware and watched the 97 remake! Yeah, can see it, especially the body proportions and the way the eyes are drawn
I prefer Tullece, mostly because it was a rounder design from before Toryama’s art changed and the anime got pointy and angular as well.
I was not expecting that Dragonball Evolution reference.
I'm sure you've heard the news.
The Super Saiyan thing feels a lot like the team producing the special got a memo from the higher-ups stating they had to somehow cram the dumb transformation into the special, as its presence just feels completely out of nowhere for what comes before and after.
I interpreted this and GT's ending as Goku becoming one with the Dragon Ball(s), and his spirit living on within it/them. He possibly even willed it back to Grandpa Gohan's old house because it was so sentimental to him.
10:25 No comment about age or milk. There was no way you could know. Well... atleast he is a good voice actor, right?
I think you spent a bit too much thought focusing on the Super Saiyan transformation when its purpose seems very obvious.
On one hand, yes, it's there for the cynical dragon ball iconography, but in context, it DOES serve a purpose.
It's a visual representation of Goku Jr's courage. The courage he's gained is what *gives* him the strength to fight, not the other way around. Super Saiyan isn't his goal, it represents him achieving his goal, even though he hasn't realized it yet.
It doesn't matter that strength wasn't what he was after, because the strength itself is a metaphor.
As someone who's even more sour about the overuse of super saiyans than you are, I'm honestly surprised you didn't catch on that this is one of the rare times it's actually used in an interesting way.
This special was the absolute brightest spot watching GT. I could say a lot about the series and its overall quality and will continue to do so but they did so right with this special. I remember putting it on kind of expecting to get either GT's usual brand of crap or just a mediocre slightly truncated movie plot and being genuinely impressed when it was something this sweet and heartwarming. Honestly, if I ever watch GT again? No matter what I'm watching this special at the end because it genuinely gives me something great to cap off a watchthrough with.
Also it includes one of my favorite dubbing tidbits with how in the English version, the character of Susha is played by the late Peter Mayhew AKA Chewbacca which brings me just a great deal of joy to know that technically two of my favorite franchises at some point had a bizarre connection like that.
I'm so surprised MistareFusion didn't make a quick video about Toriyama passing.
He already said he would address it in the next DB Dissection since he feels it would be more fitting and appropriate to do so.
I was definitely more charmed by the kid adventure antics in this one than I expected to be.
What on earth? This really came out before the shadow dragon arc??
Unlike most DB media which I frequently rewatch or have at least watched it more than once, I've only ever seen this special once, when I was a 10 year old girl I'd say. So it's very heartwarming to me that I still remembered everything beat for beat while I was watching this video, guess it really did leave an impression on child me
i love the goku jr special and i feel like the story is good
Goku is the same amount of saiyan as I am French. I never noticed that before lol.
10:27 It sure didn’t take long for calling Furuya a national treasure to age poorly. Even Yamcha’s voice actor is a cheater. Poor dolt.
You know MistareFusion, I just assume that the original Goku was still alive after all this time with both this special and the actual GT finale was because of the life that the elder Kaio-shin gave him (which he had said had only a thousand years left in him) during the Majin Boo arc. Maybe that's the reason why the original Goku was there.
i don’t think Elder Kaioshin’s full lifespan was transferred to Goku, just the ability to be alive. Goku still probably had the same lifespan he was already gonna have. and he effectively died in the finale. just… not actually. he kind of just ascended to a new plane of existence among Shenron and other ethereal godlike entities. So he still exists in his grown form, thinking and doing things, but he’s not in the world of the living anymore. he’s effectively a god that comes down and assists with things related to the dragon balls, and does whatever else he does.
@@jaybee27D Well maybe. Again, it’s all very ambiguous anyway.
You know, I can recognize the flaws, but this is my favorite Dragon Ball special. As someone raised mostly by his grandparents, watching what is effectively the last focus in a line of grandchildren resonates (grandpa Gohan to Goku to pan to Goku Jr.). There's the fear of losing someone you love, the struggle to find your identity based on someone else's memories when you barely understand your lineage, threats in mundane instances, and a through line of respect for what preceded you. There are time-honored traditions just as much as there are beloved names attached to a gravestone. I'll never forget looking over at my grandfather in his rocking chair, realizing that the cabin where we stayed wouldn't have been built without people like him. Nature can be a scary place where might makes right, people can be more dangerous than an isolated location, and humans are social animals that can suffer side effects just from not understanding why we're alone. Despite all of that, someone had to have the courage to do what they thought was the right thing.
My favorite part about this story is that it echoes something my grandparents always said to me: "family aren't the people you're born to, they're the people you choose." A grandparent, being one step from the people who made you, has much more agency about choosing to accept you than a parent. What's really beautiful at the end of this movie is seeing what exactly makes it so grand. Junior reciprocates Pan's care for him by risking his life despite the fear. The circle completes when Goku himself returns with that same goofy smile to prove Junior really did the right thing. I recognized smiling as something my grandfather did for me even when I was embarrassed because he was proud. Having him there made it perhaps the most memorable thing I've ever watched.
I’ve always wondered why this is the only episode in DBGT where Goku (Senior) does NOT have the tan.
Like. Why?
Maybe Force Ghosts can't tan?
I think Pan faked being sick to give Goku Jr a scare of for him to toughen up.
Well that would be terrible. I hated Superhero because of it.
that would be evil. I hate that idea.
So, did she also save his friend according to this idea?
@@AmitCinematicUniversemmmhhh who knows.
Goku Jr. becoming a Super Saiyajin is probably my least favorite aspect of the special.
He’s already similar to Gohan; just give him an explosive rage boost without a transformation.
I mean when you have Kid Trunks and Goten going Super Saiyan like it's nothing, this is much much better.
@@cryguy0000At least Trunks and Goten are pretty strong for their age. Goku Jr. can’t even fight. He doesn’t need that transformation.
They could've just flashed Super Saiyan and not have him achieve it, and just have him fight better. That way you can have your cake and eat it too. Sure, he doesn't know it NOW, but we know he's on the path to get it by the World Tournament.
@@ZeroX7649Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. don’t need to be Super Saiyajins at the Tenkaichi Budokai. The special came first, and the epilogue had both of them transform because the special made Goku Jr. an SSJ first. It’s especially stupid since GT never made Pan an SSJ, and she’s got more Saiyajin blood than either kids.
I don’t like the fact that this tiny amount of genes is enough to define their entire biology. If the two kids were clones of their ancestors, it would be much more believable.
Wait This was a especial all along ?
"Allways has been"
🙀🔫🗿
Goku Jr. becoming a super saiyan is definitely one of the better examples of the kinda show Dragonball was (and is) becoming in the mainstream. IE. You don't really matter unless you can get the golden hair. I talk to fans all the time that act like the story literally can't progress unless a character attains a new form. Whatever happened to just winning a desperate last gasp by putting your all into it?
Odd that Goku Sr. doesn't have his tail here or in the final GT episode even though he does as an adult in the fourth ED. Maybe Toei didn't know Goku was getting his tail back when this was being made?
Oh my I did not know you would release a video early morning. Got enough minutes to watch before my shift, cool.
No wonder the animation in GT sucks in this period. They had to use good animation for this.
Wow, so they hadn’t actually written GT’s ending when they made this. It still reeks of knowing that GT won’t last much longer so they already show us that Pan will live.
Actually, I’m reminded of Batman Beyond and Justice League.
Did Batman Beyond know about the Justice League's space station?
@@BagOfMagicFood no. Old Bruce is shown alive in Batman Beyond, so unless they pulled an alternate timeline, we knew going into Justice League that Batman would be okay, and we also know that Batman Beyond was made without any of JL/JLU in mind, so any change or retcon they made wouldn’t apply to BB’s story. ROTJ shows Robin as a kid in the flashback, but we know now that JL/JLU would place that way further in the future, so he should be way older.
So in our Dragon Ball watch through we decided to put this at the end of GT partially because of the boxset order and partially to try and get through GT proper faster. It was honestly extremely refreshing after GT. Was a great down to earth story, some of the jokes were genuinely chuckle worthy, and the world of the story was such a nice chance of pace. Would genuinely have loved a full cour of something in that world.
That being said, we ended up watching Evolution immediately after this and couldn’t help but compare the two. I swear if Evolution hadn’t planned to be multiple movies they would have also had Goku become Super Saiyan at the battle climax.
Dragon Ball will always be a slave to its marketing at the end of the day; more Super Saiyans and more obligatory power ups, interesting characterization is secondary to that.
I remember liking this one a lot, but it's been a while.
Hoo boy. I thought for sure your comparison point was going to be the 10th anniversary movie. I was absolutely not expecting what you actually used.
Goku appearing to help him explain the dragon ball lore to him was so emotional for me. Honestly my favorite dragon ball movie. It's also very nostalgic
After GT ended I always wanted the franchise to continue with a new series about the adventures of Goku Jr and a new cast of characters but sadly that never came to fruition.
That's a very good point about the movies. Now when we watch them on a website or computer we often lose the context and backstory behind the movie. It's hard to replicate the era we used to live in
I never knew this aired as a "tv special". Most places treat it as a "movie".
I loved this movie/special when I was a little kid; it's a self contained story that needs almost no context to watch. I want to say that a good introduction to the franchise, but it's not like most of the series.
I do kind of agree about the complaint against Jr turning Super Saiyan, but I'd also argue it's supposed to be a physical representation of the change in his heart. It's proof of his resolve, showcasing that with courage you're much stronger. Yeah it's a bit unnecessary, it doesn't make a ton of sense either, but really it's a nitpick in an otherwise very nice story, and I can look past it and accept as a means to cap of his growth throughout the special
Honestly? I saw it more of a representation of the chang thing too then a power up per say, thematically. The fact that Fusion sees it that way says more about them then it does the special, I feel.
I don’t say this often, but at the end when Goku Jr meets Goku, I like the English version much better. The silly version of Dan Dan kind of undercuts it while the English version makes it pretty weighty. Yes, Goku is a little silly here ofc, just like always, but when you watch this for the first time, you know what’s going on, why Shenron doesn’t come. And it’s a little heartbreaking. And then Goku appears, who surely should’ve been dead. It should carry some emotional weight without undercutting it and the rescore, in this case, really delivers on that. And both English voice actors “meeting” in this is pretty cool too :b
There is at least one major - and I mean ABSOLUTELY MAJOR - difference between this movie/special/whatever and Dragon Ball Evolution:
This was made with at least a tiny bit of reverence to the Dragon Ball franchise, and legacy that is expected of it by having those two words in the title. Evolution, on the other hand, was made almost in _defiance_ to that legacy, and the lack of respect for that legacy oozes into nearly every second of that film's runtime.
I'm suprised you didn't mention that one of the bad guys was played by Peter Mayhew given how much of a Star Wars fan you are.
Maybe Goku Jr. becoming a Super Saiyan could've worked if they did something kinda different with it- like instead of Goku just turning into a cool confident warrior through it, what if the context was different in some way? Like maybe he's stuck in a dark cave, and he pushes himself to keep moving despite his fear, and then his hair starts to glow and lights up the cave, so he can see again - and he doesn't even realize this is supposed to be a physical power-up or anything like that
like, let *his* Super Saiyan reflect *his* heart and all that
Super 17 arc doesn't have enough substance to merit more than 3 DBD episodes
So... will you ever review Dragon Ball Evolution? I'm just curious to see if you have ANYTHING positive to say about it. Oh, and I can't wait for your review of the Super 17 arc. Again, a case in which it'll be really difficult for you to find something positive in.
Maybe whenever it comes up in the release order!
So Pan became an Asian grandmother?
Super 17 next? But what about DBDTV for the baby arc?? 😛
Unless she got married, yeah, it's Son Pan. Sounds weird compared to multi syllabic Gohan Goku and Goten but it makes sense.
But also there are no family names in Dragon Ball so this is more like a clan name from Gohan the first.
I’m suddenly not sure I’ve seen this movie. I thought I watched everything Dragon Ball. But when I think of the GT special, the events I remember are apparently the final episode, not the actual special.
So, uhm, to admit something, your casualness with being GNC has really helped me be more open to myself about it? (Anxiety BITES) And so I feel it's important to note that gosh Mamba's outfits are pretty and I am quite jealous ^^;;
this is my favourite Dragon Ball story c: I haven't watched it in years, so I was surprised that Goku turned into a super saiyan here? I didn't recall it all.
My head canon that Puck is the descendant of Uub because of his body type if like Mr. Buu reincarnated and his came is a reference to Puck the fairy from Shakespeare’s Play A Midsummer’s Nights Dream, this way it would keep the magical themed name puns… Again head canon, but still
Huh, that Dragon Ball Evolution thing sounds pretty interesting.
Really, the only part of him going SSJ that bothered me is that Pan somehow never did.
Everything else just doesn't bother me that much.
the super saiyan thing also doesnt make sense, unless hes atleast 10x - 20x stronger then the average human already the increase in strenght he'd get would still not be enough for some random monster that already seems to be many many times stronger than a BEAR, and bears are already many times stronger than Humans, a monster thats Multiples the strenght of a bear would not be beaten by anyone under the power level of like 300
It would have been neat if being Super Saiyan was all in Goku's mind here. Maybe not the "all just a dying dream" thing, though...
What do you mean the story most farthest in the DB timeline came out before the end of the show?
This special was never written with the finale of GT in mind. Hence, there is no reference to the arcs that came after the "Baby Arc" within this special.
14:50 That would be validating, but maybe in a world filled with giant monsters and aliens that could destroy the planet you should toughen up a bit.
This OVA gives off a vibe that Pan apparently peaked at 10 years old and did nothing eventful for 100 years except reminisce about Goku
Given how little the writers cared about Pan? That sounds depressingly accurate.
Considering that the Earth is supposed to be peaceful in those 100 years after the fight with the evil dragons, i can definetly see why she would frequently remember the most exciting time of her life, traveling around the universe searching for the dragon balls and fighting people.
The world was peaceful. What was she gonna do, find a problem to cause for everyone to deal with?
You know, now that you mention it, Dragon Ball Evolution, unlike most modern media at that time, actual manges to refrain from having Goku go Super Sayian just for fan service.
Then again that movie couldn't have had less to do with Dragon Ball if it tried, so that probably makes sense.
That's because Evolution is adapting from the OG Dragon Ball anime, where Goku didn't become a Super Saiyan yet and why he transforms into the Great Ape instead.
@@mechajay3358 Yeah but you always have to do Super Sayian even when it makes no sense. Like in the Bardock special.
Bardock didn't go super saiyan in the special(unless your talking about the one where he got sent back in time then which eh, Super handles telling a Bardock story well enough without it so I'd say read the manga for more Bardock content that doesnt just power him up for no reason)@@ShinobiPXO
It’s almost too bad they didn’t make a spin off focusing on Goku Jr. because I got the vibe that Mamba and her demons were the next generation Pilaf, Mai and Shu.
I'd say you could certainly read Goku's presence in the ending as more phantasmal rather than literal given that he still looks young while his granddaughter is now an elderly woman. Though, knowing Dragon Ball, there's probably some explanation that full-blooded Saiyans age more gracefully while half-Saiyans don't get that benefit.
FYI Pan is not that GOKU Jr's grandma.
While I do agree with some of your points on the GT special, I don’t actually mind the Super Saiyan moment; I see it as another similarity between Pan's dad and grandson, both timid boys with incredible powers/hidden potential deep inside them. Little Goku’s courage was shown when he tried to flee from the demons with the bear cub, or even when he started the journey to save his grandmother and kept going til the end. Just like with Son Gohan, Little Goku’s true power awoke during emotional situations or more accurately when he needs to protect someone he cares about and since Super Saiyan is iconic and still used in the GT series even with the new forms, it makes sense to use it as Little Goku’s true potential when he cuts loose. And just like Gohan before the Saiyan Saga, he lack of memory after using his powers is due to not having control over them. My only problem is that it brings the question of why Pan could never transform if she has more Saiyan blood than her grandson, but it’s minor. Plus, Little Goku follows the tradition of beating a Demon lord just his ancestors before him (Goku and Gohan). Also, if this is seen as a prequel for the end of GT, then it leaves the mystery of what more Little Goku’s been through to be the whole new fighter we see later on and you know how fans love to guess. P.S. I think it would’ve been easier if you referred to 'Goku' as Goku Jr.