When NOT to Change Your Mind
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- Опубліковано 25 кві 2024
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Watch the full episode with Bret Weinstein here: Ep.434 - • The Darien Gap & Postm...
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@Jordan Peterson. I want to thank you for helping my son when he was going through a very difficult time in his life. I sincerely mean that with all my heart. Thank You!
Hey, i don't know your son.. but thank you for supporting the people who support us.. that support sons
How was he able to help? Asking as a mom of a son :)
@Dmb0617 Guidance, acceptance, Understanding. He doesn't try and tell people not to be a monster. But to have a monster and tame it
@@Dmb0617 my son started watching his videos online. And he started telling me about Jordan Peterson and listening to him. He also went to see JP in person in Denver. It was a combination of things. He started going back to church and was working hard… inspired by JP and of course, Jesus
I think there's a fundamental difference between being openminded enough to contemplate ideas that differ from your own vs caving to ideas that you don't actually agree with for some extrinsic motivation (such as the fear of being cancelled) at the expense of your principles.
Integrity>Conformity
Honesty. Goodness. Integrity.
My 2 cents.
@@Sagittarius-81 Amen
Unless it pertains to politics (you shall not criticize Israel)
It's great to see Dr Peterson both serious and joyous in these discussions.
I’m not trying to be overdramatic here, but Brett’s example of the campfire song gave me chills. What a stark and compelling example.
This video really got me thinking deeply about the importance of standing firm in our beliefs in certain situations. Sometimes, holding onto our convictions isn't just about being stubborn but also about safeguarding the mental structures that have guided us and led to success in life. I particularly agree with the notion that we don't need to justify our beliefs to others if they've proven their value in reality. Thank you for sharing such a realistic and insightful perspective. This is truly a valuable reminder in an era where information and opinions are constantly changing.
The Eye Of Horus. Excellent conversation. Could we boil it all down to DISCERNMENT? I have.
But that is a great way of explaining it, thank you gentlemen. You are appreciated and required in this reality.
This is weirdly a very heartwarming conversation, from a nonverbal level.
Expand please
They are good friends I think.
Dr JBP seems wonderfully jovial here ❤
I love it when. Scientist use the technical term " blah blah blah".. restores my faith
Agreed. He started off bad and ended worse.
@@andytay5507 their specific arguments were irrelevant to the actual discussion... why would you need blah blah blah to be elaborated? you even following what hes saying? lmao
@@2bitTank look at "andys" other comments. They don't have a choice but to hate us. "Hes" indoctrinated
@@2bitTank look at "andys" other comments. Tells you all you need to about.. "him"
Someones too dumb to vote holy moly
This is a gem of a conversation, man... Thank you.
Here's a reduced form of my model. This is basically the top of my perceptual hierarchy as it applies to the subject matter here: If someone is trying to convince me of something, they are most certainly serving their own agenda, and it is most likely to my detriment.
Amen.
That is probably true most of the time. There may be exceptions.😊
Did your mother ever try to convince you not to play in the street?
@@FOTAP97 No, she didn't convince me of that. She told me not to. And I may or may not have obeyed until I learned not to do it the hard way. By "convince," I meant more like salesmanship and persuasion. Usually someone is trying to make money off of me, con me, or trick me. Especially with regards to the subject this video opened up with. They were selling it so hard, that it sent up many red flags. It kept me from "complying," and not being duped into being a medical guinea pig for someone else's profit.
@@paulsaulpaul that’s a great response, and I fully agree with your assessment of what they were up to.
My dad used to tell me as a music student that I needed to copy the masters until my playing was indistinguishable from theirs, then high quality creativity would be easy. Mastery of the tradition comes first.
Very good. In army training they taught us you must learn how to follow before you can learn how to lead.
Mastery of the fundamentals. Copying others will not breed creativity. It won't even make you any good.
@@beenschmokin this is wrong. Mastery of the fundamentals is part of copying the masters. You must have both. All masters have mastered the fundamentals. That’s why they are called masters. Every field that is not a completely new invention (and there is rarely something that is completely new in this world) has generations of people who were creative and imminently capable that came before. They took the best parts of the previous generations of masters and formed their own new work from their influences as well as their own unique idiosyncrasies. This means the field is pushed forward with each generation of masters and the best discoveries have been refined. To become great you must stand on the shoulders of the giants who have come before and at the same time transcend them.
7:08 A lot is lost. I made this observation with the slow advent of streaming services. Back in the 90's, most people and kids all watched a handful of the same shows and we were able to talk about them and connect on a social level, even random people you could talk to about it, because everyone was watching Friends or Seinfeld, or South Park. Now, with an unlimited amount of 'content' and stories available on demand, I've noticed the steep drop in connection with people I know well and even strangers when it comes to something as simple as pop-culture sitcoms.
Attend to that which you attend. Geppetto, if you recollect, is not cognizant of Pinocchio as the old man had been in swallowed whole by despair (meaning “down from hope”) in the depths.
Once aware, he is filled with the Spirit and truly enthused.
Core beliefs are like a windshield you look through at the world. There’s a lot of folks with tinted windows emphasizing the bird poop, saying it is what makes them different, special and important rather than doing the harder work of cleaning it off
At 11:30, they prove Jesus' point by not just conspiring to kill him but by harboring hate for their brother (him) in the first place. They not only prove his point in this encounter but his point from the Sermon on the Mount about the metaphysical equivalent of hate to murder.
The focus of your intent while you perceive the world determines your reality !
Superb discussion and concept. Thanks
I love you Your making my days better where I don't have anybody to have intellectual conversations with 🤭😂
I love your channel & daughters too! #MikhailaPeterson
💙💜❤🤍💙💜❤🤍💙💜❤
Me too! I need to listen to intelligent conversation. I'm not sure I would be able to participate.
Thank you Mr Peterson
Wow, that was great. The analytical logic of these opinions based around educated observations without the influence of preconceived beliefs or ideology is beautiful. Your conscious awareness shining light on reality in a way that ALL awakened Souls can resonate with despite any level of individualized programing. Seeing and breaking down the big picture w/o bias keeps the mind listening instead of judging. This is a great way to bring messages to the masses in a way that is comfortable for most. Plus the intelligent way in which you guys are able to throw it down adds a level of trust needed for influencing hard wired minds. Thanks👍MchLvv..
Outstanding
I'm not Christian. But I've always asked, when we removed religion (Christian morals) from our education system, what was it replaced with?
Pretty much nothing, at least nothing on purpose, which is why there's a void and society is imploding. The short answer could be, marxism and nihilism, and things like race theory and gender theory. Worship of sex also comes to mind (see LGB 'community' and rampant abortion)
Exactly.
As Peterson (and many others before him) suggest, usually something far more incomplete and dangerous.
Heavy. Couldn’t follow all of what was said, but I appreciate the Pinocchio story at the end, will watch again to this and listen
I have felt the the expansion of further education has to a degree led to two the creation of a new divide within society of an educated class and pragmatic one and they exist as different cultures with different world view. Communication and negotiation between has become increasingly difficult, their landscapes have different values and motivations. It appears that what used to be the working class has become frequently characterised as the "far righr".
That was very insightful! 🖖
Reminds me of the Star Trek episode (TNG) where Picard meets a species (the Tamarian) that only communicates using allegorical stories. Darmok, I believe. "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra" Without shared stories, it is harder to communicate. But not impossible.
That is some genuinely fascinating stuff JP was getting to at the end there. I wonder if that “elevating the sacred above the spirit which gives rise to the sacred” tendency also explains our construction of God himself.
Weinstein and Peterson together! Two of my favorite smart people! :)
I need a dictionary and a thesaurus to get through this
Good. Excellent. Great. Wonderful. Amazing.
Peterson is a genius, but sometimes he should stop intervjuing himself and let his guests speak a little more ;-)
I think probably more likely is his interventions go over your head (our heads)
It is a conversation. It is not an interview.
Sounds like big people words, don't it? The reality is that those who put this guy down generally can't keep up. Stand on a stool or a box or something.
He was on a roll.. why would he stop?.. that was brilliant.
Try listening to the full episode instead of just clips.
When your model "works" for a hundred years in each country before getting kicked out............well, it doesn't actually "work" very well, and is long overdue for that upgrade. "Nobody gets away with ANYTHING"-- (paraphrase of JBP). I agree. "The wheel of justice grinds SLOWLY, but finely," someone said.
Edgy
Cringe unholy larping. Goddamn boomers refuse to take responsibility for their role in a decayed society. I know, let’s blame the Jews again! That worked great for the Germans lol.
@@smokeydapot"things should be improved somewhat" isn't particularly edgy
@@xXx_Regulus_xXx He's talking about overdue justice coming to the Jews.
Right. When someone does not trust Science, then his/her frame or paradigm to understand the world is chaos.
Thank you good men. 💖💡💪🧿🌟
Atheism has failed to provide a model that a high-functioning society could use to interpret reality, due partly to the grief that is felt when they realise there is no real point to intelligent life on a hurtling gravity-suspended rock, etc. It would take a large mind to ask: Are intelligence and imagination the Cosmos trying to make sense of itself? The answer to that is in the second question: what it would take to self-assemble all of the contributory components to render such a mind? That answer would be compounded simplicity: i.e. that if reality is endless Space plus Energy which is bipolar and therefore embodies a binary logic, then that set of simple rules could end up producing the complexity of a brain, which it has. It doesn't need to end there either.
Well if you confront them on this (the Sam Harris or Matt Dillahunty types), they will claim that either they can rationalize out morality or that morality is mostly self evident. Peterson has tried to point out to them that is not true and that the only reason they think this is (ironically) they were raised in a Christian Moral based culture that ingrained that into them to begin with.
Their lack of self awareness is stunning.
@@dragons_red Their reluctance is as it should be. Understanding the prototype hidden within genome is an incomplete Science. However it is the only continuous thread that goes back to the causative reasons for primordial ooze in the first place.
Any alternate justification for intelligent and imaginative life will sound Utopian: and within the background of our embarrassing History also ridiculous. Unless...
Should any culture realise that the key is finding out how to reliably turn out great replacement adults, armed with as many of the genomic attributes they had been gifted that may change. No society needs under-achievers, substance abusers or criminals. These outcomes were made, not born.
Cheers.
Two of the smartest people in the world.
More than smart, helpful.
Well said Jorden!
What we believe about the true nature of reality affects how we interact with other individuals in that reality.
“Thought purgatory” 😁
very strong
Is Jordan using a BIC Cristal in this interview? Nothing wrong with that pen, but it's a bit surprising to see. I keep a pack of them myself. Only pen I use. It's a good pen.
We live in a world of people addicted to being endlessly verbal about something and not in a world of exploration of our own doubts and amending our weaknesses. I love those two gentlemen but the whole video was a trip. I felt like encyclopedia or dictionary was telling me why it does not want new words in it...
Wow... I felt just the same... I don't quite see the argument that Brett is making here... it's kind of weird...
@@davidcontreras8583 it's simple, too much diversity makes you too divided so you can't lock onto a concrete idea but you keep drifting from thing to thing constantly and at the same time you cannot properly communicate with others around you because they're the same, you don't have knowledge of the same basic set of ideas or values and you can't understand each other or agree on anything. No common foundation to build on.
@@creed22solar123 But I disagree with that causation, I don't think that's how it works. Ok I see what he's saying, "we all need a common language, a way to communicate and understand each other in some basic narrative" but, isn't that what leads to towers of Babel like thought chambers? who gets to decide what that narrative is going to be? Templars (Christians) decided it should be their version of the Bible what should be honored and recognized as true in the world, so they had to kill so many people....see?
The idea is that a flower blooms outward. If we, as humans, are an expanding and cohesive unit, then we can create a beautiful flower. Focusing on our differences actually PREVENTS the blooming of human culture.
@@creed22solar123 They touch on the pros and cons of both too much diversity of thought and not enough. When Dr. Peterson pointed out that in the Bible the most moral are often foreigners in any given story he was making a point about the draw backs of a population of homogeneous thought.
I find it confusing that JPsays it’s important to communicate affectingly and have a good vocabulary, but i didn’t understand any of that just spoke about 😂😂😂
The reason they divide workers or scientist keeps you from finding out what is really going on. That's how government does it. So no one is to blame.
The "justifying" claim, I would say, is whether one can navigate the unknown consistently and reliably without constantly being over seen by a Nanny consciousness.
That's what my UA-cam Calendar purports to do. My goal is to not need a constant supervisor making sure everything goes right all the time. The problem with theism, whether that's polytheism or monotheism, is that they're two sides of the same coin, unnecessary cosmic micro managers. At least, in relationship to people who are healthy in their mind and in their relationship to themselves and others.
The ability to transition from mental patient to private citizen is what I set out to accomplish without the need for doctorial oversight or institutionalization.
That's what I mean by atheism as a project.
0:28 wow, he actually said it.
Good for you Dr. Weinstein!
yeah... they really did make a novel pathogen. thats DARPA for you...
"insofar as the laws of mathematics apply to reality they are not certain insofar as they are certain they do not apply to reality" (Albert Einstein: Relativity und mathamatic)
Jordan and Brett need to share a quarter of mushrooms around a campfire and livestream the trip.
😢 i couldn't have ever imagined that people would have just lay down and just let the government walk over them and its not going to get any better until it gets a lot worse
Its funny how jordan gets in between the other persons thought process
That guy is everywhere
❤
# Scenario-Talk #
I asked a Question about BioWarfare in a Lecture at the local UNSDP conference held by Locals, next I know there was a COVID Outbreak. Can a Human be treated as GodLike ? Next I know that someone has created chaos by spreading a Novel outbreak. Is asking a question a wrong thing ? Even if one has the wrong intention with the question, are other people fools or idiots to spread the chaos ?
Oh..how I wish that I could meet Jordan Peterson..for him to just speak to my boyfriend about his attitude etc...with me being in the same room as well.
JP ==》 how is it even possible for ONE individual to be THAT brilliant???
What kind of CBS discredit for asking a wrong question ?
I say it doesn’t work on the meta level of truth and the pursuit of it. It’s become a bug.
Seems to me it was a "training test" and the trauma and damage to children and soft minds is incalculable.
Mr. Peterson is alway mad when he is talking and hopeless at the same time . He does not have the power to change the world but knows how .
We only have the power to change ourselves. Illumination is the best he can hope for and that the illumination will be the impetus for change for the individuals.
He's not mad here, he's actually excited because this is his Maps of Meaning wheelhouse
Dear Dr. Peterson, I could use a log a of wood. Thank you
Can You Be . . .
"Can you be quietly at one with the All that is,
nestled gentltely in the
beauty of the heart?"
"Then may you see",
Idiositys said to me.
What?
After watching the video 'I don't have enough faith to be an atheist' presented by Frank Turek,,, it presented impressive factual data about the level of intelligence of God the Creator, that allowed me to realize how 'limited' all humans really are.. Then I began to reason with this understanding and concluded with,,, as we humans relatively define intelligence,, how much more understanding of this could be with God.. And when we then judge his works of creation or criticize it as did Satan,, does one even contemplate the extreme greater of intelligence of what God has or is?... Do you think that God couldn't predict the acts and motives of Satan and it's results?.. I believe we are simply 'colateral damage' in a impossible to know at the moment 'plan',, I believe of cleansing evil out of existence, maybe?,, but also leaving enough breadcrumbs on the trail, or 'Truth' in the Holy Bible,, better days lay ahead in the Heavens,, and not of this world (plan)...
I see where you’re coming from. The problem is, accepting that we know very little is directly at odds with adopting models that make hyper-specific claims about things like God and the afterlife. In other words, reasoning might get you to something like deism or even a very open-ended theism, but as soon as you start making claims like “God is not only real, but we *know* he has all these hyper-specific characteristics and demands as laid out in these ancient texts”, you do so in contradiction with this idea that we humans can only ever know very little.
Pragmatism is an intellectually lazy way to go about. It also isn’t interested in truth in the same way other epistemic systems are. So that’s concerning
It’s a humble and realistic approach to truth. It acknowledges our human limitations and focuses only on what works. So much suffering is caused by tyrants who press their “truth” onto others
@@Dialogos1989 If by humble and realistic you mean it doesn’t care if something is true or not, than sure. By all means lol.
@@thomasthellamas9886 Everyone has a meta drive for truth. The pragmatist realizes that we interpret the objective world through a subjective framework, and thus distort our views with biases, false ideas, etc. That doesn’t mean we give up the search of truth, it means we continue knowing that we will never reach it.
Pragmatism concedes that the only truths we can rely on are replicable truths. The rest is theory.
@@LongReachOne “The only truths we can rely on are replicable truths” That’s a claim. To justify that claim you’d have to use something non replicable. Making the very foundation of pragmatism, as you laid it out, self defeating.
Model of the universe = worldview..?
🙏❤🧠🙏
😂a nonsense!! private truth
This gentleman needs to get his thoughts together before he tries to communicate.
Who Brett? He's fine he's just not as practiced an articulator at Peterson, and I think he is being even more careful in his words because he is talking to Peterson
Jordan Peterson made a deal with DailyWire, now he can’t talk about Israel. Not sure about Brett but he has been quiet on it too. How’s that for strategy and pragmatism 😂
🙄 ok bud
NO ONE CAN STOP THE WORD OF GOD!! LEVITICUS 5:17. AND NO ONE CAN ESCAPE THE WORD OF GOD. Leviticus 20:7-8-12. Deuteronomy 5:1-11. Exodus 20:7-8-12. Hebrew 10:28 Like Jesus or Emmanuel!!! John 10:30. John 14:6. Psalms 22:1??? Matthew 27:46?!.Proverb 27:1. Proverb 16:5. Job 40:7-9?!.-12. Hebreo 4:12. Malakias 1:11. 2Cronica 7:14.
Get rid of the adds man.
1. Daily Wire.
2. Everything has adds, what years did you grow up in that people work for free? If you are thinking of UA-cam with cat videos, those days are long gone and this content is not people posting for lulz
@@dragons_red Yeah I get it. I'm not expecting work for free. It's just annoying. I pay for my YT app and these rich people still need to insert their own adds. I've had a podcast for 11 years with no adds and only listener supported. I just like that model better...although it is more challenging. For some reason this add just hit me at the wrong time I guess.
You killed the prophets and stole their dogma. Nice. Bret felt that one 😂
I want to break away from DW, but Jordan is employed by the opps.
The song everyone can sing around the campfire is "Signs."
You're welcome.
Tesla?
@@erics9869 They covered it yeah.
Lol no, mid rate boomer hippy song. Not universal by any stretch if the imagination.
@@dragons_red You're right. It should be W.A.P.
(Don't take yourself so seriously. You'll live longer.)
I made a pretty cool song to honor our beloved Jordan, check it out if you want.
This video is incongruous on many levels. It’s so bad I can’t watch.
Now if someone could translate this into layman's language so we could ALL benefit from this discussion, that would be amazing.
Just watch or more specifically listen to again. And if you don't understand words or concepts, look them up and listen again. You'll eventually get it.
Watch his maps of meaning courses free on his channel (2016 or 2017 class years), what he is saying here is a distillation of that
@@delzinga06 I don't have that kind of time. I"m really really busy. If he could word salad less, it would make his wisdom available to more people.
But my dad passed away due to covid....for me it took my world I didn't live it as propaganda
Jordan should close his mouth and open his ears.
Complete nonsense.
If you have a belief X and it implies Y and then you find out Y is true, it doesn't mean X is true at all. And there's no reason why it should necessarily make you any more confident in your model at all.
That would be great if Bret and Heather could understand that Jesus is the Christ. I hope the Jews don't wait another 2,000 years because of missing the way, the truth, the life. Imagine what they could accomplish with an full-hearted embrace of Christianity and the Apostle Paul instead of all that wasted energy fighting against God and the rest of the world.
Consider the possibility that Jesus isn't coming back and it's not the apocalypse. Humanity is having to adjust to becoming a worldwide culture and maybe some people are freaking out in a religious way. The spiritual battle has always been and will continue and humanity won't become Jesus like supermen. Consider it, maybe we could all calm down. After all, He said no man knows the time or place.
@@LongReachOne Best I can figure out he already came back in 70 AD when Rome FLATTENED Jerusalem and the physical temple, just as Jesus Christ said was going to happen, but the Jews seem S L O W to get the message. "Kicking against the pricks" is how Jesus explained it to Saul (Paul).
To those who don't understand what Jordan is saying: it's not your fault. He makes absolutely no sense and contradicts himself in this video.
But he is a Christian conservative and said "scientism gone mad" in a stern and angry way, so you love everything he says. Because it fits in your "world model", as he put it.
So I think what I gained from this video is that explaining things scientifically to Christian conservatives is useless. Instead of trying to educate you on viruses, mutations, the immune system, etc., what they should have told you is that God is angry and unleashed a pestilence on the elderly. But in his fairness did not let it affect children. And He has ordered us to stay home and pray so He will show us mercy and it will pass as all things shall.
But, no, stupid scientists, trying to explain things scientifically, what a bunch of nerds.
Way to shit on something because you can't (more like refuse) to understand. Keep doing that anti-intellectual thing of thinking that if I can't put it in Scienctific method terms then it must be nonsense.
Realize that Science and man's understanding of the universe is NECESSARILY limited, by the very mechanics of evolution I am sure you DO believe, because natural selction and random mutation does not produce omnipotent beings, it just produces one clever enough to survive to pass on genes, no matter how clever.
And you seeem to fail to recognize the Scientific method you hold as the end all be all is LIMITED BY DESIGN, because it CAN'T address things that can't be tested empirically or objectively, which there are TONS if things in your life (that don't even enter religion) that this applies to.
It's not designed answer everything, it's designed for material sciences, and even there it has hit it's limits (quantum, spacetime, psychology, super complex systems).
But continue to bury your head in the sand believing it is everything. This is where people coin the term Scientism, because y'all worship it blindly, not even understanding what Science actually is.
The modern world made it to 99% of where it is now without the scientific method existing, and all it has given us is more sophisticated technology which is neither good nor bad because they are all tools, and like any tool, it can be weilded for good or bad (hammer or a nuke and everything in between), what makes it good/evil is the spirit of the human weilding it, which again, Science cannot even begin to address.
Jordan Peterson is usually pretty good on a lot of stuff. But this showcases his ignorance and, unfortunately, tendency to speak on spiritual matters he does not understand as if he understands them. Just a warning, don't treat him as a prophet. Test everything he says as not all of it is true.
Sam Harris owes you fellas an apology. For so many things at this point.
I had so much respect for this man when he was a humble college professor spreading knowledge. I wish he didn't lose his mind and become a self-absorbed sleeping pill addict. It's sad that he literally capitulated and CHOSE evil 😢
What evil did he choose?
What an odd comment. Can you elaborate on how he lost his mind?
The woke opinion.
Sleeping pill addict? Where do you get that from? He went through a near death withdrawal from prescribed benzos.
Nice strawman though, you almost sound legit.
Ya his wife suffering with cancer while being attacked daily by left wi g media dosnt give a human a excuse to have a breakdown 😂😂😂 your nuts man