.308 is something that your body armor needs to stop. It is a fairly prevalent caliber. It isn't ubiquitous like the the 7.62 or 5.56 but it's probably a close third.
I was trying to figure out why you thought people wouldn't need to worry about .30-06 or .308. Then I checked your page and found you're out of Cali and it all clicked. Here in Utah, I'm much more worried about taking a round from someone's hunting rifle than I am from an AR or AK.
its even worse in southern states. Especially states with a history of gun violence and even a territorial heritage attached to it and alot of gun manufacturers are mostly based in the bible belt. Mainly Daniel Defense that is built, operated and employed by the folks of Georgia. And as far as Iam concerned. Any southern state north of the Appalachia is notorious for handloaded special rounds that if sold to the public will land you 20 years in federal prison for manufacturing restricted/destructive munitions that only military use. And they do exist. And you can find em. But good luck getting any. Tungsten is a notorious metal and I do believe it is monitored since it does have military applications. Basically anything lvl 4 is 100% useless in that scenario. Regardless who makes it. You'd have to step up your armor setup with ICW's or find a better material that can mitigate AP/API-T threats and still be practical.
Oh that explains it. I was so confused about why he was so sure that suddenly no one had a hunting rifle. Up here in Montana, that would be my primary.
.308 is an extremely common hunting caliber. so it really depends what threat you are anticipating. if its an invading force it will prob be along the lines of 5.56/7.62. if its a civil war/social collapse it could very well be .308, 30-06, 7mm rem mag, 300 win mag all popular civilian owned rifles.
If you're getting shot at by someone with those powerful hunting rounds, chances are your body armor isn't going to matter regardless. They'll be using scopes, trained hunters, and don't need to aim for center mass if they see you wearing armor. The prevalence of AR-10s and bolt actions in .308 is a different story. It's way more common, it's a NATO caliber which the military will having loads of, and plenty of people have "battle rifle" setups ready to ruin some level 3+ If someone is serious about having a vest around for SHTF, lvl 4 is justified for the weight and price.
@@haroldfarquad6886 Getting shots off on people that isn't center of mass is really hard to do. You do know people move around and plate carriers cover at least 40% percent of the body. Side shots were the most lethal and that's why they introduced side plates. Not to mention that getting shot in the limbs isn't going to take you out right away. There's a reason why people aim for center of mass and that's because it takes multiple bullets to kill anybody if it isn't targeting a vital organ. You'd be surprised by the amount of people who have been shot in the limbs and lived, though in a "Social collapse" hospitals and surgery would be almost impossible to get.
The AR and AK platforms are the most popular civilian owned rifle. Even in a civil war your most likely to face 5.56/7.62 rounds. A hunting bolt action rifle isn’t what you would want to bring into battle. Your average person isn’t skilled enough to be an effective sniper.
I didn't buy level IV plates because I'm worried about other civilians shooting me with armor piercing 30-06. I bought level IV plates because I know federal agencies and other militaries would use this ammunition against me.
Maybe an old comment but there is still an issue. Military, police, etc. whoever would be coming If shit hit the fan wouldn’t even be using 30-06. So to be real we don’t know how safe we would be with any type of plate against government. Or what types of ammo they would be using.
At least he's honest about the .308. A lotta manufacturers neglect to mention deformation and energy transfer. Penetration may be stopped, but all those kilojoules gotta go somewhere.
my argument when someone says ill get frag from steel plates after being shot 10 times... my guy, if I'm shot to the chest 10 times, frag is the least of my worries
Or you just put your plates in anti spall sleeves, coat then with line-x. Another option is buying kevlar sheets and then epoxy then to the plates, you just want at least two layers.
I am the anomaly as far as United States citizens go I guess. Because I have a shitload of exactly that. 30-06. I didn't order them because I think I'm going to go up against the military. I ordered them for those just in case moments. Same reason I just ordered level 3+ plates and plate carrier. It's unlikely that I'm going to need it but I'd rather have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.
LITERALLY every hunter I know has one and most have a box of green tip. I'm currently rebuilding a 30 06 for a friend's son. So yeah they are also like visa.
Jake: How many of you own a 30-06? Me: I do! Jake: How many of you own 30-06 AP ammunition? Me: Oh well not me. Now I must go out and purchase this ammo just to say I have it! Thanks Jake. Another thing I need to purchase.
There are actually a lot of cartridges in the .308 range. All those World War era cartridges for example. Lots of hunting rifles. Lethal back face deformation might be more common than you think.
@@sandville2396yes because having cracked ribs and a plate that is preventing your chest from expanding properly to breath will have no effect on your ability to continue living
I feel like 308 is getting really popular because armor plates are getting better and we will probably see more and more 308 in the future I would still go III+ to future proof my body armor
Level 3 is NIJ spec'd to stop 308 M80 ball. There are 5.56 and 7.62x39 rounds that are a greater armor piercing threat than 308. 5.56 is actually a greater armor piercing threat than 308, due to velocity. You need M80A1, which only active duty military or people who want to pay too much for stolen ammo have, to match the armor piercing threat level of 5.56 out of a 308.
@@es4583 if u are American this makes no sense your major potential enemy is your own government so the only people with the ap ammos you are talking about. Plus cause of covid in the US there is a lot of M855 running around. But if you want to under scale your armor you are free to do as you want after all mobility is also a great way to stay safe (For the rest of the world : If devlopped country then 90% chance that they wont need a body armor unless they enroll)
@@canis_lupus_filius I don't know where you got that I wanted to under scale armor. I just corrected your premise that 308 was better at defeating armor, because it is not.
You know how wrong that thought is right ??? I’ve shot at 3/8”-1/2” steel plates for target practice seeing what’ll go through and after like 6 different types of 223/556 only the 308 went through , x39 didn’t either . Sorry but your wrong Yah maybe steel core would pierce but that’s apples to lemons comparison , steel core 308 would puncture far more than any 556 on the planet. It has speed AND weight and that weight does more than you think when your going 2500-3k fps
That is a question I've certainly been having as of recently. How come we got here with plates becoming not only better, but also cheaper and more affordable than ever before in recent years?
I run the RMA 3+ ceramic. .308 is a very common hunting round. that's why personally I lean towards that over the srt. you guys make great products just personal preference
Good points! The only gun and load that scares me and is a very common thing in many households is the shotgun with buckshot. I know it won't penetrate armor, but it's the pellets that goes around the armor that worries me and while I don't foresee people just blowing each other up in a SHTF like most fantasize about, but gangs and other groups will have shotguns and will take full advantage of any situation that there won't be the personell to hold them responsible.
You can stop threats up to but not including 44 mag with a DIY plate made from a welding blanket and fiberglass resin. It's the magnum and rifle rounds that will take it out though.
You can wear a lvl3a underneath your plate when going to place you consider increased threat. Weight would not be that much of a problem if you take good care of yourself. Just ask any military guy how much weight he walked 15 Km with(or more sometimes 15 is regular tho) also I have seen a full body 3a gimp suit. But I would rather die than wear that shit :D
Honestly man, my biggest fear is getting gutshot and bleeding out for hours versus getting my heart popped. I took a page out of what guys are doing in East Europe right now and added some soft abdominal armour and a groin flap. Not for the shrapnel but the buckshot.
Civilian threats aren't why you wear level 4, soldiers are and if you think they won't turn their muzzles on US civilians look up what US soldiers did to WW1 vets during the great depression.
This is a horrendously tone-deaf response and shows ignorance of the culture back then and today. Segregation and a whole country murdering Jews was also acceptable back then, the same culture does not apply today. Soldiers are regular people just like you and the number of them who would “simply follow orders” and shoot civs has been proven false in recent years, notably during the BLM riots when National Guard soldiers refrained from teargassing and using rubber bullets when the Police were.
I completely agree. My battle ammunition is M855 for my AR. However I was also a sniper so my long range rifle is set up in 6.5CM so the plates I personally run are IV. For the vast majority of people out there, I definitely agree with this video. I just suspect when SHTF happens I will be placing myself in not so nice situations due to my training to get the mission accomplished, assuming of course SHTF before I ya know fuckin die or old age or whatever
What mission? Other than securing and protecting your family? 😂 you don’t even know what the situation would be, it could be so vastly different in a wide variety of scenarios. Personally, I live next to Kirtland, which has a couple thousand nukes stashed in a special underground bunker about 10 miles south of the city. If shtf, I’ll prob have about a 20 minute window to flee the city, otherwise they’ll close it off and no one is leaving or entering. My only mission would be to survive, basically 10 minutes to 10 minutes at a time. Idk what missions you’re envisioning.
Not to say you're entirely wrong, and no disrespect intended, but myself and literally all but one of my shooting buddies have and run as our main squeeze 308 rifles. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who don't. And every time I go to the local plinking pit I find at least one guy who hasn't messed with 308 in a fighting rifle capacity. But i can assure you we're out here, and in larger numbers than most would expect.
I have a level 3A armor plate and I hit it with an Umarex Hammer.510 slug at 20 yards and it spit it right back at me . The Hammer has 700 foot pounds of power, it's a super powerful air rifle. I was pretty impressed.
I love it. Very informative and I'm an Army Vet and wore IIIA from 85-88. It freaked me out when I came back to the world and wasn't wearing it. I'm now, and have been on and off since '93, in commercial finance. I would love to get you as much money and Lines Of Credit as you want.
5.56, 7.62x39 and 7.62x51 are arguably the most common rounds to come by in America. More and more people are buying a ar10 pattern rifle. If SHTF came around and I had the luxury of having another team player with me, Id have them or i have a 308 and one of the other two previously stated calibers.
277 FURY is coming online, and you will eventually have a bunch of guns chambered in it on the civilian market. That is the reason one should be buying level 4 plates right now, if you are buying body armor.
I bought a Tavor 7, bullpup style, and it's chambered in a 7.62x51 due to what's going on in this world right now. So far, I'm loving it, though it tends to be heavy but being a bullpup, the weight easier to manage.
Bought your Falcon and Predator combo not too long ago and it’s held zero flawlessly, thank you for the handwritten note you sent, and thank you for your service!
@@TacticonArmamentthere's a video that proves 55 gr FMJ out performs 62 gr GT on 3 BA. GT is great, but it's slower. Also, I remember the GT hype of the 80's, and they were using various grades of steel to make these GT's. They differ by batch, but some batches that were treated with W and C are the best penetrators, and will penetrate 3 BA at only 2400 FPS!
Umm... My main carry rifle on the job is a Tavor 7 which is .308. Though I admit it'd be a toss up between that and a x95 chambered in either 300blk or 5.56 for SHTF situations. You are 100% going to encounter .308 comming your way if things go down after a major collapse/war, it's a VERY common round for hunting, the default round even. .308 just isn't common in everyday crime/shooting situations.
I don't have any of your plates, but I bought one of your Falcon 1-6x FFP scopes and a 3 volt flashlight. The scope glass is clear and hasn't lost zero, even after several hundred rounds. It has a nice throw lever for the magnification and the illumination is really nice to have. The flashlight is every bit as bright as my Streamlight of the same dimensions. Thank you for producing quality products and for your service.
What about M193 or XM193 in most cases? This was about the cheapest brass 55gr 5.56 ammo out there as well as some of the hottest. M193 IMO is as much or more a threat than M855. Also, Jake, I appreciate your products and own several including a plate carrier and some 3+ plates and side plates. God speed and God bless.
Ok what im about to say varies between companies but the rule is mostly the same. Polyethylene is weak against green tip Steel is weak against m193/xm. Steel is strong against green tip Polyethylene is strong against m193
@@clorox821 iraqveteran8888 shot a spartan armor ar550 3+ plate at like 7 feet with m193 out of a 20 inch barrel and it didnt penetrate, that was enough to convince me to go with ar550 3+.
m193 lacks the steel penetrator like m855 and A1 do. While it goes fast, it doesn't go fast enough to offset its lack of mass without a penetrator. All lvl 3 armor is rated to take a hit from m193.
As a civilian if you're buying armor to save your life with you buy lvl4 until something better comes out. If you live in the USA ignoring .30cal full sized rifle cartridges as a threat is a bad idea. .30cal rifles are everywhere.
Fair point. My perspective on this at least. I have high doubts of two things. First, my neighbors shooting me down, I have built a strong community and hopefully don't have to worry about my fellow 2A supporter. Second, if I do encounter a 308 or higher, I don't believe it will be within the range where I am going to be seeing them first. ie: my 10x12 plate zone is one portion of the whole. - Nolan
I know 3 dudes personally that run rifles chambered in .308, my brother is one, he runs an AR-10 with eight 25 round Pmags for an SR25, I know another who runs an M1A, and lastly a dude who runs an Scar chambered in .308, you probably want armor that accounts for .308
Jake, love your products and your videos! But the ever common ar10 should always be a worry. Plus there's lots of dudes out here that are gonna go straight for their 300 mag, 7 mag, or 6.5 creedmore... in which case you'd be in big trouble.
Dudes with hunting rifles will just shoot around the plate. 🎉 Seriously you might run into someone at close range fighting with an ar10 but deer rifle dudes are gonna do deer hunter stuff and play redneck sniper lol 😂
That’s why you gotta make friendly with those dudes in the woods with pelts everywhere that smell like shine. You know, the quiet ones that you REALLY don’t want to piss off.
If my plates won't stop .308 I'd rather not have plates. Inner city this video may apply. Bout anything outside of city limits you are more than likely going to encounter .308 at least. If not some very spicy deer rounds varying in caliber and capability. I'd rather train heavy and be ready for everything possible tbh. Lvl 3+ are the standard minimum for anything I will wear but I'd prefer something like a lightweight Lvl 4a
I own a .30-06 and AP for it. I have grabbed it when things went bad, but it was overkill, I admit. Green tips usually don't go through Level 3. M193 goes through more armor with a longer barrel hitting at closer range anyway.
@@Ash-my4gf I mean when a gang member was outside my apartment threatening me, I had something to stop him and his car. I didn't need it, thankfully, so I stayed inside with it, but I would rather have something and not need it than need something and not have it.
how many m2ap rounds do you have? i know some people have them, but is there really that many floating around where it becomes a serious statistical threat? the absolute overwhelming majority of threats will be 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 and other rifle rounds that wont penetrate 3+. i have ar550 3+ plates and i am risking it by betting against anyone with m2ap shooting at me, i am pretty sure that the leftists i would ever potentially get into a disagreement with will be carrying ar15, ak, or 7.62x54, all of which cannot penetrate ar550 3+.
Interesting take, however, I would say that in a ‘oh crap’ scenario that .308 would be the second most likely round to encounter. It is very common, has been popular for decades, and packs a decently hard punch. That is my main reason for liking steel armor. It is heavy, but it will stop large FMJ rounds repeatedly. Also I have shot steel body armor with multiple steel core 7.62x39 and green tip 5.56, and watched the plate eat all of it. To me, the multi hit capability seems like a valuable asset, since it is unlikely that I will be able to acquire new plates in said ‘oh crap’ scenario.
Stopping 30.06 AP at 45 feet is not the intended use for LvL 4 armor. If it can stop those type of roudns at 45 feet they can stop much high caliber and higher velocity rounds from farther away.
I'm glad you're not worried about 308. I hope anyone that will ever threaten me or mine watches this and agrees with you as well....hu hu hu hu....But yeah, SRT is the way to go for the smorgasbord of shtf threats and I'll be getting me some soon.
I'm sorry but .308 and other hearty rounds are still preventing and I like the assurance of itll stop if it hits the plate compared to. It almost stopped it all the way
Let me start by saying great video, hilarious editing, and very entertaining. I bought one of your red dots a couple years ago. Still works good for a good price. I get what you’re saying about the oddity of 30-06 and likelihood of being in a fight with ap rounds… but however small the chance or unlike the encounter, I still want the lv4 plates I got them elsewhere but I don’t doubt yours do the job as well. SFMF
Rock on brother! happy to provide the entertainment, gear, and plates whenever the time comes for you to get more! thank you for the support and kind words!
I don't think he was saying level 4 was worthless, obviously there are going to be places where people will want them and as he said he knows that enough to sell them himself.
Randomly saw a hilarious short you did and decided to come check out your channel. It's criminally underrated. The humor and editing alone should get you above 50k subs.
I'm an old-school heavy metal fan, so your steel level III+ is what's in my carrier right now. SRT+ does sound tempting though, because you are pretty much on point. I aint getting shot with Pappy's Garand, nor an M60 for that matter..
Be careful, I have a guy in here trolling me because I wear level 3+ steel. He says I'm incompetent 🤣 he must be incompetent as well since he is just online attacking people haha. I looked at his UA-cam channel and the 4 videos he has are of him shooting and doing "tactical" drills...that aren't that impressive lol.
@@Driveby-Viktum probably haha. You should look at the comment thread on my comment and read them. Dude is definitely crying and then go watch his videos 🤣 I promise you will be thoroughly entertained and not disappointed haha
So I guess I gotta ask. I just saw the Buffman video of him DESTROYING your Level III+ armor with regular M193 ball and M855A1 ammo. Can you guys tell me if you've made any changes to the armor to mitigate those threats? Video for reference. ua-cam.com/video/qF9Z5FUlk6Y/v-deo.html
There is a flaw in the way armor is tested. Multiple round tests are the culprit. If you get shot and hit on your armor, the bullets more than likely will not be evenly distributed inches away from each other. In the nij lab, where they certify armor, the test standards cal for 4-6 bullets evenly spaced however far away from each other. Not going to happen on field. That's why level 4 is my pick. Sure it's heavy, but I don't want bullets in my body.
If you're worried about the distribution of rounds then you should choose steel. Stack two or three rounds on top of each other on any level 4 plate and you will get penetration. I've tested all the brands out there and they are all met with the same result. It's the ceramic. Once that is compromised then everything in the square inch directly underneath it is fair game
@@TacticonArmament spall. It's prevalent in both ceramic and steel, but the spall coating gets cut off from steel way faster according to my research. Most ceramic has that little bit of extra fabric protection.
yeah, no. sticking with 4s . there is litteraly over 20 different kinds of common hunting cartridges that will smoke a 3+ not to mention that .gov has ap everything.
interesting video, and i mostly agree. subscribed. i bought spartan armor ar550 3+ plate after doing several months of research into body armor. i will not be rucking 20 miles or running marathons, i protect my home and neighborhood/town and ride shotgun on security so i would usually be a stationary target, that means i need something with good multi hit capability and weight really isnt a huge issue. barely anyone have m2ap so im not worried about it in general. my current rig can stop the overwhelming majority of any threats i realistically expect to encounter. 3+ really is a sweet spot in armor, and plenty of people do use .308/7.62x51 and 54, which ar550 can reliably stop. i was on the fence about getting steel or ceramic or UHDPE but i went with steel because there really is no negatives about using steel for what my role is. i am more likely to take multiple hits by 5.56x45 or pistol rounds while in a vehicle than i am of taking m2ap. im still wondering why so many civilians are concerned about weight of the plates like they are all well behind enemy lines and need to move 20+km on foot... if youre bugging out you probably shouldnt even be taking plates and if youre bugging in then youre probably not going to be rucking for hours. many people apply military/special forces conditions to themselves as militia it seems, thats where the hate for steel comes in... and no "spalling" (actually called fragmentation) is not even a concern because who actually uses bare steel plates? lol.
Yes people just assume steel is inferior due to its cheaper price and weight but if you look at it after being hit compared to ceramic, i know which one id feel more comfortable with
i run lvl 4 because i can. Im running a 517lb deadlift and 475 squat. 12 lbs aint really shit with 60lbs of gear overall. And i can say for sure i definitely am grabbing my AR-10 or my 7mm Mag if the SHTF. Id rather be able to engage targets at 800m before they even know im there.
I myself run a 5.56 with green tip for an everyday truck rifle. Moat everyone here in Central Idaho does, and a number also have that lovely AR-10 in .308. We all run 3A+ plates and if we get hit with a 30/06.... do you really want to know it?
Have you tried putting a 3A plate behind the SRT+ to counteract some of the back face trauma? I keep a thin lightweight 3A plate behind my main plate in my carrier, the thought process is if the plate were to suffer back face trauma or if any shrapnel were to worm through due to deterioration the 3A would catch it or slow it down enough so it won't kill me.
I’m wondering the same. I bought some SRT+ plates but now thinking I should’ve gone with level IV. But I chose mobility (Light weight and multicurve) over extra protection.
Level 4 ceramic is bussin and everyone should own it. That said, you do make a fair point. I counter with this, I live in the middle of bum fuck nowhere, the people here have said "f*ck the govt" and have those rounds. So yeah lol ima have some lvl4s
@Wes Thompson OH yeah duh. I didn't think of moving. Even though everything I have is here. Oh gosh bud, yeah let me just sell everything, uproot my family and go somewhere else! Incase you haven't realized. Not all of us have daddy's money to live on 400a of land. But in all seriousness, can't just uproot and go and besides, it's not that I'm worried about the people or what they have. I'm more so worried about the ones who come to where I am after picking everything clean from where they are
@Wes Thompson Ah I was just busting your balls man. Being a sarcastic ass is all lol but I do agree with you, sadly I can't just uproot my whole family
the problem that I have found out is that speed kills. I also heard you can use the 30-06 round, shape it and neck down to fit into a 7mm remington mag. The faster velocity will allow the black tip round to hit with enough power that it can defeat lvl 4. Im not sure.
you can making a plate that stops green tip with hardware store materials and fit into a carrier. whats even better is the backing was made of epoxy resin and fiberglass when tested. this is important to know because if fiberglass backing with porcelain tile as the strike face stops green tip then imagine easy to find mild steel backing with the same strike face. definitely heavier (~11 pound, could be as low as 8 with certain light weight 3+ plates) but now try the strike face on a 3 or 3+ steel plate. now you have a reason to own a stock pile of cheap level 3 or 3+ steel plates with some home depot tiles, duct tape and caulking/adhesive. this is will cover most scenarios, is cheap and significantly more accessible.
I live in the rural south so there’s more people with hunting rifles than ARs and AKs. For me, level 4 is what I’ll go with, I can train for the extra weight, not a visit from the grim reaper
...or just buy composite level 3. Theres no difference between 3 and 3+ per NIJ standards. M193 will probably defeat your steel armor, which I feel you're as likely to encounter, if not more likely, than m855/ss109. Yes, green tip will defeat pure UHMWPE plates, just like m193 will defeat steel. Composite plates are still level 3 and will stop 308, and probably many other threats that you would likely encounter. Threats like many common hunting rifle calibers out there, but may fail backface just like your SRT fails against 308. Level 4 will stop many different armor piercing rounds to include the standard issue m855a1. All the SRT is is a thinner, lighter, (i.e. less protective) composite plate. Everything has a tradeoff. Steel fails to m193 but can take many many hits and is heavy. Pure polyethylene fails to m855, is thick, but is light and positively bouyant. Composite is a little thinner, heavier, but stops the widest array of threats. Ill take my chances with my NIJ certified choice.
I’m not wearing anything that doesn’t stop a hopped up .308 because that’s what I’ll be running (along with 10mm 1700fps penetrators) in a fill-in-the-blank scenario. Hopefully, we’re all on the same team in the worst case scenario, though if I’m honest it seems unlikely given the division that stokes the fires.
Yes as far as I know and have seen a lot of people are buying AR's in .308 while owning an AR in 5.56 specifically because they'd wanna get through body armor if possible.
20 inch barrel with 55gr goes through most iii+, not sure where these fall on that spectrum. But most people who know what they are doing are training for pelvic girdle shots. Workout in your body armor several times a week, ore die tired.
Just a question from someone who knows very little about armor and getting shot. If you get the lighter weight lvl3+ is there a force reduction pad you can have with it to reduce impact from the rounds? I’ve heard that broken bones kind of a mood killer.
Mos Def taken level 4 to be honest. I live in Texas a d AR-10s are super common down here. All those big rifle rounds combined or just as big of a threat as 556 and 762 whete I live
I don't want to make this an objective statement. But a lot of this sounds like "I love it because I make it", if the purpose is for the safety of others, then one should bring up alternatives besides their own company, but at the same time it's his company and his mind not mine so I don't really know anything that's going on in the video 🤷♂
I don't plan on humping my plate carrier through the woods, so I am OK with a battleship approach considering the AR10 in the gun case. Level iv for me.
3+ will stop AP .308 and standard 30-06. Don't really need more than that. The armor I like has anti sprawling plus the carrier itself helps with sprawling as well.
7.62 NATO and its Russian cousin are just a bit too common with the bubbas and hunters where I live. I'd want to see how much force transfers through on a 762 hit with a trauma pad before I go all-in on an SRT.
I respect this guy. he’s willing to share expert advice with us about why level 4 plates are bad even though he sells them. If that doesn’t show transparency than I don’t know what does.
Will green tip really pierce lvl3? I know tons of people with 30-06. I would say 30-06 is the most prevalent rifle in the community where I grew up. Also yes I have seen plenty of black tips in people safes. Your not worried about 308? 308 is what ar is chambered in, hell sometimes I keep it in the truck so you’ve basically just convinced me to go lvl4.
.308 is something that your body armor needs to stop. It is a fairly prevalent caliber. It isn't ubiquitous like the the 7.62 or 5.56 but it's probably a close third.
Agreed
Came here to say the same. He’s got a good point about .30-06, but .308 is a common enough caliber that I’d want something that would stop it.
Recent Maine mass shooter was using a 308 ;(
Look into level 3++ plates.
@@TheDoorMan77 those don't exist, from my knowledge.
I was trying to figure out why you thought people wouldn't need to worry about .30-06 or .308. Then I checked your page and found you're out of Cali and it all clicked. Here in Utah, I'm much more worried about taking a round from someone's hunting rifle than I am from an AR or AK.
Availability in general. I don't worry about AP in NJ. But there's nothing stopping anyone in adjacent states
There’s a 30-06 on an AR platform. If could afford it, I’d buy it. Here in Missouri they never run out of 30-06 rounds
its even worse in southern states. Especially states with a history of gun violence and even a territorial heritage attached to it and alot of gun manufacturers are mostly based in the bible belt. Mainly Daniel Defense that is built, operated and employed by the folks of Georgia. And as far as Iam concerned. Any southern state north of the Appalachia is notorious for handloaded special rounds that if sold to the public will land you 20 years in federal prison for manufacturing restricted/destructive munitions that only military use.
And they do exist. And you can find em. But good luck getting any. Tungsten is a notorious metal and I do believe it is monitored since it does have military applications.
Basically anything lvl 4 is 100% useless in that scenario. Regardless who makes it. You'd have to step up your armor setup with ICW's or find a better material that can mitigate AP/API-T threats and still be practical.
Everybody and their mom has a hunting rifle
Oh that explains it. I was so confused about why he was so sure that suddenly no one had a hunting rifle. Up here in Montana, that would be my primary.
.308 is an extremely common hunting caliber. so it really depends what threat you are anticipating. if its an invading force it will prob be along the lines of 5.56/7.62. if its a civil war/social collapse it could very well be .308, 30-06, 7mm rem mag, 300 win mag all popular civilian owned rifles.
If you're getting shot at by someone with those powerful hunting rounds, chances are your body armor isn't going to matter regardless. They'll be using scopes, trained hunters, and don't need to aim for center mass if they see you wearing armor.
The prevalence of AR-10s and bolt actions in .308 is a different story. It's way more common, it's a NATO caliber which the military will having loads of, and plenty of people have "battle rifle" setups ready to ruin some level 3+
If someone is serious about having a vest around for SHTF, lvl 4 is justified for the weight and price.
@@haroldfarquad6886 Getting shots off on people that isn't center of mass is really hard to do. You do know people move around and plate carriers cover at least 40% percent of the body. Side shots were the most lethal and that's why they introduced side plates. Not to mention that getting shot in the limbs isn't going to take you out right away. There's a reason why people aim for center of mass and that's because it takes multiple bullets to kill anybody if it isn't targeting a vital organ. You'd be surprised by the amount of people who have been shot in the limbs and lived, though in a "Social collapse" hospitals and surgery would be almost impossible to get.
The AR and AK platforms are the most popular civilian owned rifle. Even in a civil war your most likely to face 5.56/7.62 rounds. A hunting bolt action rifle isn’t what you would want to bring into battle. Your average person isn’t skilled enough to be an effective sniper.
If it's an invading force they'll probably be armed with lasers since it'll come from outer space 😂
@@Savak22 then if the Hawaii conspiracy theories are correct just wear blue 😂
I didn't buy level IV plates because I'm worried about other civilians shooting me with armor piercing 30-06. I bought level IV plates because I know federal agencies and other militaries would use this ammunition against me.
Yeah, the military, be it US or foreign, is the most likely enemy you will encounter.
Real. If you took this f*****'s advice you wouldnt be wearing plates at all
Funny how this crossed my mind..
That’s what I’ve always said too. I’m not as concerned with bill the fudd down the block as I am the military
Maybe an old comment but there is still an issue. Military, police, etc. whoever would be coming If shit hit the fan wouldn’t even be using 30-06. So to be real we don’t know how safe we would be with any type of plate against government. Or what types of ammo they would be using.
At least he's honest about the .308. A lotta manufacturers neglect to mention deformation and energy transfer. Penetration may be stopped, but all those kilojoules gotta go somewhere.
Thats what I've always said, I don't know if I want to stop .308
That is physics 101
Over a hard plate it isn't as debilitating as your think it is.
That's why trauma padding exists. How much it mitigates the effects and whether or not you think the extra weight is worth it is up to your choice...
Thats why composite helmets let bullets go throw otherwise your head would be in your ass 😂😂
my argument when someone says ill get frag from steel plates after being shot 10 times... my guy, if I'm shot to the chest 10 times, frag is the least of my worries
Standing around bouncing around like a video game or something they think
It's probably just the much needed coup de`tat at that point lol
Quick note no one’s ever died from bullets that lvl 4 is rated for and it hits the plate. Not even slugs. FBI stats.
@BETA00009 I am curious now. How many people wore lvl 4 plates AND got shot?
Or you just put your plates in anti spall sleeves, coat then with line-x. Another option is buying kevlar sheets and then epoxy then to the plates, you just want at least two layers.
I retired my AR15 for an M1A Socom 16 so someone should be worried.
Yea I’m with u. I’m grabbing my SCAR Heavy 💪🫡
Looks like the meta just changed. Better up your plates.
* laughs in 50 Beowulf *
@@dereckcompanioni6051Heavy=Slow=Easy Target specially legs not protected. The only thing that protects femoral is speed.
Dude I want the cqb m1A1 so bad for SHTF.
No one carries around AP ammo;
Buffman Enters the chat...
~Fear intensifies ~
O slayer of Ceramic!
All hail the King of Armor Destruction!
The military is happy to use force against American citizens
I am the anomaly as far as United States citizens go I guess. Because I have a shitload of exactly that. 30-06. I didn't order them because I think I'm going to go up against the military. I ordered them for those just in case moments. Same reason I just ordered level 3+ plates and plate carrier. It's unlikely that I'm going to need it but I'd rather have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.
"Nobodies running around with ammunition that can penetrate level 4"
Sounds like a pretty good reason to buy level 4 to me.
It's heavy af but when shit hits the fan you'd want it
Everything you said is correct, and that’s why I run an AR10 now. I want armor that stops what they have, and rounds that penetrate what they have.
That’s why you follow up on legs
@@VBH8888I'm going there first, followed by the melon
D
The military will be using level 4.
I second that! Plus they will last that much longer against subsequent rounds. Yes it's heavier so exercising with them is a must.
Lvl 3 still stops 9mm. That’s the most used ammo
Great video, I agree up to .308 .. there are enough people running 308 battle style guns now, and it's the most common hunting rifle cartridge.
the hunting rifle cartridge has a bit less power than millitary 7.62 NATO
@@akusav333 ....yeah....I wouldn't want to be on the receiving side eitherway
@@BabaNovac792 I think u wouldn't want to be on the receiving side of a 9mm neither :)
Bro I’m someone’s worse nightmare 😂😂 .308 AP, 6.5 daily, and soon a 7mm build. Thank you SDI💪
As a hunter I think it’s funny when he says how many of you own 30-06 because it’s one of the most popular elk cartridges out there lol 😂
LITERALLY every hunter I know has one and most have a box of green tip. I'm currently rebuilding a 30 06 for a friend's son. So yeah they are also like visa.
Jake: How many of you own a 30-06?
Me: I do!
Jake: How many of you own 30-06 AP ammunition?
Me: Oh well not me.
Now I must go out and purchase this ammo just to say I have it! Thanks Jake. Another thing I need to purchase.
@@sheethneaffer8614 I just rebuilt my friends 30-06 pump action. AP is going with us on test day😁
Um, you do know Elk aren't everywhere, right?
And you’d chose that gun inna tactical situation? 😂 no, you wouldn’t
There are actually a lot of cartridges in the .308 range. All those World War era cartridges for example. Lots of hunting rifles. Lethal back face deformation might be more common than you think.
exactly what I was thinking. I know far more hunters and criminals who have hunting rifles and in a SHTF scenario; they'd be using those rifles
8mm Mauser
you'll still survive, bruh. the bulge is not important.
@@sandville2396 lmao
@@sandville2396yes because having cracked ribs and a plate that is preventing your chest from expanding properly to breath will have no effect on your ability to continue living
I feel like 308 is getting really popular because armor plates are getting better and we will probably see more and more 308 in the future I would still go III+ to future proof my body armor
Level 3 is NIJ spec'd to stop 308 M80 ball. There are 5.56 and 7.62x39 rounds that are a greater armor piercing threat than 308. 5.56 is actually a greater armor piercing threat than 308, due to velocity. You need M80A1, which only active duty military or people who want to pay too much for stolen ammo have, to match the armor piercing threat level of 5.56 out of a 308.
@@es4583 if u are American this makes no sense your major potential enemy is your own government so the only people with the ap ammos you are talking about.
Plus cause of covid in the US there is a lot of M855 running around.
But if you want to under scale your armor you are free to do as you want after all mobility is also a great way to stay safe
(For the rest of the world :
If devlopped country then 90% chance that they wont need a body armor unless they enroll)
@@canis_lupus_filius I don't know where you got that I wanted to under scale armor. I just corrected your premise that 308 was better at defeating armor, because it is not.
You know how wrong that thought is right ??? I’ve shot at 3/8”-1/2” steel plates for target practice seeing what’ll go through and after like 6 different types of 223/556 only the 308 went through , x39 didn’t either .
Sorry but your wrong
Yah maybe steel core would pierce but that’s apples to lemons comparison , steel core 308 would puncture far more than any 556 on the planet.
It has speed AND weight and that weight does more than you think when your going 2500-3k fps
That is a question I've certainly been having as of recently.
How come we got here with plates becoming not only better, but also cheaper and more affordable than ever before in recent years?
I run the RMA 3+ ceramic. .308 is a very common hunting round. that's why personally I lean towards that over the srt. you guys make great products just personal preference
Good points! The only gun and load that scares me and is a very common thing in many households is the shotgun with buckshot. I know it won't penetrate armor, but it's the pellets that goes around the armor that worries me and while I don't foresee people just blowing each other up in a SHTF like most fantasize about, but gangs and other groups will have shotguns and will take full advantage of any situation that there won't be the personell to hold them responsible.
You can stop threats up to but not including 44 mag with a DIY plate made from a welding blanket and fiberglass resin. It's the magnum and rifle rounds that will take it out though.
You can wear a lvl3a underneath your plate when going to place you consider increased threat. Weight would not be that much of a problem if you take good care of yourself. Just ask any military guy how much weight he walked 15 Km with(or more sometimes 15 is regular tho) also I have seen a full body 3a gimp suit. But I would rather die than wear that shit :D
Bullets go around armor too, as long as you don’t aim at the armor
Honestly man, my biggest fear is getting gutshot and bleeding out for hours versus getting my heart popped.
I took a page out of what guys are doing in East Europe right now and added some soft abdominal armour and a groin flap. Not for the shrapnel but the buckshot.
You can get a LVL 4 NIJ approved plate for $120 on LAPG. Not sure where you got $1500 from.
It's what people say when they are trying to sell their own product. He definitely is not a very good spokesperson for that company.
How much does it weigh?
He was saying that lightwight lvl 4 is very expensive. And it is.
Civilian threats aren't why you wear level 4, soldiers are and if you think they won't turn their muzzles on US civilians look up what US soldiers did to WW1 vets during the great depression.
Facts
@@LeviFuller33 Hey at least it kept you in the fight a bit longer.
All we can hope for is to stay in the fight long enough to make a difference.
This is a horrendously tone-deaf response and shows ignorance of the culture back then and today. Segregation and a whole country murdering Jews was also acceptable back then, the same culture does not apply today.
Soldiers are regular people just like you and the number of them who would “simply follow orders” and shoot civs has been proven false in recent years, notably during the BLM riots when National Guard soldiers refrained from teargassing and using rubber bullets when the Police were.
What did they do? Do you have a link to an article I could read?
I completely agree. My battle ammunition is M855 for my AR. However I was also a sniper so my long range rifle is set up in 6.5CM so the plates I personally run are IV. For the vast majority of people out there, I definitely agree with this video. I just suspect when SHTF happens I will be placing myself in not so nice situations due to my training to get the mission accomplished, assuming of course SHTF before I ya know fuckin die or old age or whatever
I agree, I think that m855 is the best 556 ammunition in this situation.
What mission? Other than securing and protecting your family? 😂 you don’t even know what the situation would be, it could be so vastly different in a wide variety of scenarios. Personally, I live next to Kirtland, which has a couple thousand nukes stashed in a special underground bunker about 10 miles south of the city. If shtf, I’ll prob have about a 20 minute window to flee the city, otherwise they’ll close it off and no one is leaving or entering. My only mission would be to survive, basically 10 minutes to 10 minutes at a time. Idk what missions you’re envisioning.
Not to say you're entirely wrong, and no disrespect intended, but myself and literally all but one of my shooting buddies have and run as our main squeeze 308 rifles. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who don't. And every time I go to the local plinking pit I find at least one guy who hasn't messed with 308 in a fighting rifle capacity. But i can assure you we're out here, and in larger numbers than most would expect.
Lots of M14s and AR10s out there-including my safe. I wouldn’t bank on not facing .308 rounds in a SHTF scenario.
Good point! Like I said the SRT will stop 308 it just fails the backface signature
I have a level 3A armor plate and I hit it with an Umarex Hammer.510 slug at 20 yards and it spit it right back at me . The Hammer has 700 foot pounds of power, it's a super powerful air rifle. I was pretty impressed.
30-06 might be uncommon, but 7.62x54r AP is abundant in Ukraine.
And it will be after the war lol. It is already getting surplused out here
I love it. Very informative and I'm an Army Vet and wore IIIA from 85-88. It freaked me out when I came back to the world and wasn't wearing it. I'm now, and have been on and off since '93, in commercial finance. I would love to get you as much money and Lines Of Credit as you want.
5.56, 7.62x39 and 7.62x51 are arguably the most common rounds to come by in America. More and more people are buying a ar10 pattern rifle. If SHTF came around and I had the luxury of having another team player with me, Id have them or i have a 308 and one of the other two previously stated calibers.
277 FURY is coming online, and you will eventually have a bunch of guns chambered in it on the civilian market. That is the reason one should be buying level 4 plates right now, if you are buying body armor.
I bought a Tavor 7, bullpup style, and it's chambered in a 7.62x51 due to what's going on in this world right now. So far, I'm loving it, though it tends to be heavy but being a bullpup, the weight easier to manage.
@@es4583got a sig spear in my local gunshop right now next to a honey badger😂
I bought my plate carrier/vest with 4 plates an trauma pads from you guys a few years ago. I got the AR600 level 3+. I love it
Bought your Falcon and Predator combo not too long ago and it’s held zero flawlessly, thank you for the handwritten note you sent, and thank you for your service!
love to hear it!
@@TacticonArmamentthere's a video that proves 55 gr FMJ out performs 62 gr GT on 3 BA. GT is great, but it's slower. Also, I remember the GT hype of the 80's, and they were using various grades of steel to make these GT's. They differ by batch, but some batches that were treated with W and C are the best penetrators, and will penetrate 3 BA at only 2400 FPS!
Umm... My main carry rifle on the job is a Tavor 7 which is .308. Though I admit it'd be a toss up between that and a x95 chambered in either 300blk or 5.56 for SHTF situations. You are 100% going to encounter .308 comming your way if things go down after a major collapse/war, it's a VERY common round for hunting, the default round even. .308 just isn't common in everyday crime/shooting situations.
308 is super common. The Army's new rifle is designed to kill level 3 plates. Get Level 4. This fed couldn't glow any brighter.
I don't have any of your plates, but I bought one of your Falcon 1-6x FFP scopes and a 3 volt flashlight. The scope glass is clear and hasn't lost zero, even after several hundred rounds. It has a nice throw lever for the magnification and the illumination is really nice to have. The flashlight is every bit as bright as my Streamlight of the same dimensions. Thank you for producing quality products and for your service.
I’ll be buying a few of these to put to the test on my channel. Definitely looking forward to proving you right. 🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼
What about M193 or XM193 in most cases? This was about the cheapest brass 55gr 5.56 ammo out there as well as some of the hottest. M193 IMO is as much or more a threat than M855.
Also, Jake, I appreciate your products and own several including a plate carrier and some 3+ plates and side plates. God speed and God bless.
Ok what im about to say varies between companies but the rule is mostly the same.
Polyethylene is weak against green tip
Steel is weak against m193/xm.
Steel is strong against green tip
Polyethylene is strong against m193
@@clorox821 iraqveteran8888 shot a spartan armor ar550 3+ plate at like 7 feet with m193 out of a 20 inch barrel and it didnt penetrate, that was enough to convince me to go with ar550 3+.
m193 lacks the steel penetrator like m855 and A1 do. While it goes fast, it doesn't go fast enough to offset its lack of mass without a penetrator. All lvl 3 armor is rated to take a hit from m193.
He has no idea what he's talking about
As a civilian if you're buying armor to save your life with you buy lvl4 until something better comes out. If you live in the USA ignoring .30cal full sized rifle cartridges as a threat is a bad idea. .30cal rifles are everywhere.
"Who's getting shot with a 30-06 ap? Nobody"
Cant say you got shot if you are dead rotting in the forest somewhere.
.308 is starting to get alot more popular in 16” & 12” barrel barrels
I would rethink the 308 scenario. Lots of 308's
in the wild, to include a wide variety of battle rifles......................
Love the company though!
Fair point. My perspective on this at least. I have high doubts of two things. First, my neighbors shooting me down, I have built a strong community and hopefully don't have to worry about my fellow 2A supporter. Second, if I do encounter a 308 or higher, I don't believe it will be within the range where I am going to be seeing them first. ie: my 10x12 plate zone is one portion of the whole. - Nolan
I know 3 dudes personally that run rifles chambered in .308, my brother is one, he runs an AR-10 with eight 25 round Pmags for an SR25, I know another who runs an M1A, and lastly a dude who runs an Scar chambered in .308, you probably want armor that accounts for .308
.308 or 7.62x51mm is more and more prevalent. If SRT doesn't stop those then that is an issue. I personally use a IWI Tavor7.
SRT designed to defeat M193, 7.62×39, and all hand gun rounds
I have a Tavor 7 too! It’s such a handy battle rifle and it shoots 1.5MOA @ 100yds
Jake, love your products and your videos! But the ever common ar10 should always be a worry. Plus there's lots of dudes out here that are gonna go straight for their 300 mag, 7 mag, or 6.5 creedmore... in which case you'd be in big trouble.
Ar10 was my first thought as well.
Ar 10 is what I use and train with.
All of those hunting rifles are going to see a lot of use.
Dudes with hunting rifles will just shoot around the plate. 🎉
Seriously you might run into someone at close range fighting with an ar10 but deer rifle dudes are gonna do deer hunter stuff and play redneck sniper lol 😂
That’s why you gotta make friendly with those dudes in the woods with pelts everywhere that smell like shine. You know, the quiet ones that you REALLY don’t want to piss off.
If my plates won't stop .308 I'd rather not have plates. Inner city this video may apply. Bout anything outside of city limits you are more than likely going to encounter .308 at least. If not some very spicy deer rounds varying in caliber and capability. I'd rather train heavy and be ready for everything possible tbh. Lvl 3+ are the standard minimum for anything I will wear but I'd prefer something like a lightweight Lvl 4a
I own a .30-06 and AP for it. I have grabbed it when things went bad, but it was overkill, I admit.
Green tips usually don't go through Level 3. M193 goes through more armor with a longer barrel hitting at closer range anyway.
What do you guys mean when things went bad?
@@Ash-my4gf I mean when a gang member was outside my apartment threatening me, I had something to stop him and his car. I didn't need it, thankfully, so I stayed inside with it, but I would rather have something and not need it than need something and not have it.
😂
how many m2ap rounds do you have? i know some people have them, but is there really that many floating around where it becomes a serious statistical threat? the absolute overwhelming majority of threats will be 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 and other rifle rounds that wont penetrate 3+. i have ar550 3+ plates and i am risking it by betting against anyone with m2ap shooting at me, i am pretty sure that the leftists i would ever potentially get into a disagreement with will be carrying ar15, ak, or 7.62x54, all of which cannot penetrate ar550 3+.
@Alpha Wolfgang Oh, no, you're completely right, ap rounds are not a realistic threat
Interesting take, however, I would say that in a ‘oh crap’ scenario that .308 would be the second most likely round to encounter. It is very common, has been popular for decades, and packs a decently hard punch. That is my main reason for liking steel armor. It is heavy, but it will stop large FMJ rounds repeatedly. Also I have shot steel body armor with multiple steel core 7.62x39 and green tip 5.56, and watched the plate eat all of it. To me, the multi hit capability seems like a valuable asset, since it is unlikely that I will be able to acquire new plates in said ‘oh crap’ scenario.
I like your logic brother
until you're dead from the fragmentation of the rounds
Stopping 30.06 AP at 45 feet is not the intended use for LvL 4 armor. If it can stop those type of roudns at 45 feet they can stop much high caliber and higher velocity rounds from farther away.
308 is minimum standard for me. Ar10s are more popular than ever.
I'm glad you're not worried about 308. I hope anyone that will ever threaten me or mine watches this and agrees with you as well....hu hu hu hu....But yeah, SRT is the way to go for the smorgasbord of shtf threats and I'll be getting me some soon.
Fair point indeed
Lol then that AR10 comes out 308 flyinnn
I'm sorry but .308 and other hearty rounds are still preventing and I like the assurance of itll stop if it hits the plate compared to. It almost stopped it all the way
Let me start by saying great video, hilarious editing, and very entertaining. I bought one of your red dots a couple years ago. Still works good for a good price. I get what you’re saying about the oddity of 30-06 and likelihood of being in a fight with ap rounds… but however small the chance or unlike the encounter, I still want the lv4 plates I got them elsewhere but I don’t doubt yours do the job as well. SFMF
Rock on brother! happy to provide the entertainment, gear, and plates whenever the time comes for you to get more! thank you for the support and kind words!
Good video. Great information and perspective. Thanks for posting it.
7.62x54r ... from the sardine cans with the steel penetrators... yep plenty of that stuff floating around the woods...
I don't think he was saying level 4 was worthless, obviously there are going to be places where people will want them and as he said he knows that enough to sell them himself.
My SHTF rifle is an HK91 in 7.62x51.
The top round in all my mags is an API .
The door will open if I knock.
Randomly saw a hilarious short you did and decided to come check out your channel. It's criminally underrated. The humor and editing alone should get you above 50k subs.
Thanks man we do our best!
308 is common enough where it would be uncommon to get struck by, but a hell of a lot more possible than, say, a 300WM.
I'm an old-school heavy metal fan, so your steel level III+ is what's in my carrier right now. SRT+ does sound tempting though, because you are pretty much on point. I aint getting shot with Pappy's Garand, nor an M60 for that matter..
Be careful, I have a guy in here trolling me because I wear level 3+ steel. He says I'm incompetent 🤣 he must be incompetent as well since he is just online attacking people haha. I looked at his UA-cam channel and the 4 videos he has are of him shooting and doing "tactical" drills...that aren't that impressive lol.
@@detectivedun3058 He's the type of guy to cry after an Airsoft hit.
@@Driveby-Viktum probably haha. You should look at the comment thread on my comment and read them. Dude is definitely crying and then go watch his videos 🤣 I promise you will be thoroughly entertained and not disappointed haha
So steel level 3 will stop m855, but it wont stop 55 grain m193. Thats why you need both.
So I guess I gotta ask. I just saw the Buffman video of him DESTROYING your Level III+ armor with regular M193 ball and M855A1 ammo. Can you guys tell me if you've made any changes to the armor to mitigate those threats?
Video for reference. ua-cam.com/video/qF9Z5FUlk6Y/v-deo.html
There is a flaw in the way armor is tested. Multiple round tests are the culprit. If you get shot and hit on your armor, the bullets more than likely will not be evenly distributed inches away from each other. In the nij lab, where they certify armor, the test standards cal for 4-6 bullets evenly spaced however far away from each other. Not going to happen on field. That's why level 4 is my pick. Sure it's heavy, but I don't want bullets in my body.
If you're worried about the distribution of rounds then you should choose steel. Stack two or three rounds on top of each other on any level 4 plate and you will get penetration. I've tested all the brands out there and they are all met with the same result. It's the ceramic. Once that is compromised then everything in the square inch directly underneath it is fair game
@@TacticonArmament spall. It's prevalent in both ceramic and steel, but the spall coating gets cut off from steel way faster according to my research. Most ceramic has that little bit of extra fabric protection.
Absolutely love this company and the products that yall make.
That made my day.
This is my first time here and I already know this dude is the GOAT 😂
yeah, no. sticking with 4s .
there is litteraly over 20 different kinds of common hunting cartridges that will smoke a 3+ not to mention that .gov has ap everything.
interesting video, and i mostly agree. subscribed. i bought spartan armor ar550 3+ plate after doing several months of research into body armor. i will not be rucking 20 miles or running marathons, i protect my home and neighborhood/town and ride shotgun on security so i would usually be a stationary target, that means i need something with good multi hit capability and weight really isnt a huge issue. barely anyone have m2ap so im not worried about it in general. my current rig can stop the overwhelming majority of any threats i realistically expect to encounter. 3+ really is a sweet spot in armor, and plenty of people do use .308/7.62x51 and 54, which ar550 can reliably stop.
i was on the fence about getting steel or ceramic or UHDPE but i went with steel because there really is no negatives about using steel for what my role is. i am more likely to take multiple hits by 5.56x45 or pistol rounds while in a vehicle than i am of taking m2ap.
im still wondering why so many civilians are concerned about weight of the plates like they are all well behind enemy lines and need to move 20+km on foot... if youre bugging out you probably shouldnt even be taking plates and if youre bugging in then youre probably not going to be rucking for hours. many people apply military/special forces conditions to themselves as militia it seems, thats where the hate for steel comes in... and no "spalling" (actually called fragmentation) is not even a concern because who actually uses bare steel plates? lol.
Yes people just assume steel is inferior due to its cheaper price and weight but if you look at it after being hit compared to ceramic, i know which one id feel more comfortable with
SS109 AP308 AP 30-06 Browning all get the job done when I need to.
Heard that baby girl
@@TacticonArmament yeah I got your baby girl. Like I said it's the job done.
Pelvic girdle shots have entered the chat. 😆
I am currently training and running your AR 500 3+. I have carrier, battle belt, etc..love you guys! 🇺🇸
Right on
Your videos are getter better and better Jake! Keep em coming!
stop you're making me blush :')
@@TacticonArmament "there goes my heroooo"...I fkn dropped my weapon again"...🤣
i run lvl 4 because i can. Im running a 517lb deadlift and 475 squat. 12 lbs aint really shit with 60lbs of gear overall. And i can say for sure i definitely am grabbing my AR-10 or my 7mm Mag if the SHTF. Id rather be able to engage targets at 800m before they even know im there.
Very true
After a meal of bangers and mash, I’m gonna invest in level III + !!
I myself run a 5.56 with green tip for an everyday truck rifle. Moat everyone here in Central Idaho does, and a number also have that lovely AR-10 in .308. We all run 3A+ plates and if we get hit with a 30/06.... do you really want to know it?
I'm running a full set of Tacticon Level III+ plates. Top notch quality and craftsmanship. When I have them on, I'm confident that...I am iron man.
Have you tried putting a 3A plate behind the SRT+ to counteract some of the back face trauma? I keep a thin lightweight 3A plate behind my main plate in my carrier, the thought process is if the plate were to suffer back face trauma or if any shrapnel were to worm through due to deterioration the 3A would catch it or slow it down enough so it won't kill me.
I’m wondering the same. I bought some SRT+ plates but now thinking I should’ve gone with level IV. But I chose mobility (Light weight and multicurve) over extra protection.
Level 4 ceramic is bussin and everyone should own it. That said, you do make a fair point. I counter with this, I live in the middle of bum fuck nowhere, the people here have said "f*ck the govt" and have those rounds. So yeah lol ima have some lvl4s
That is a very valid point brother, that's why you keep a strong community
@@TacticonArmament oh if only it were that easy lol
@Wes Thompson OH yeah duh. I didn't think of moving. Even though everything I have is here. Oh gosh bud, yeah let me just sell everything, uproot my family and go somewhere else! Incase you haven't realized. Not all of us have daddy's money to live on 400a of land. But in all seriousness, can't just uproot and go and besides, it's not that I'm worried about the people or what they have. I'm more so worried about the ones who come to where I am after picking everything clean from where they are
@Wes Thompson Ah I was just busting your balls man. Being a sarcastic ass is all lol but I do agree with you, sadly I can't just uproot my whole family
the problem that I have found out is that speed kills. I also heard you can use the 30-06 round, shape it and neck down to fit into a 7mm remington mag. The faster velocity will allow the black tip round to hit with enough power that it can defeat lvl 4.
Im not sure.
Who the fuck is still buying steel plates?? Havent we learned about spalling and "anti spall coating" yet??
I have level 4 ceramic plates that are pretty light. But I often train with AR500 plates because they are cheap and heavier than the ceramic plates.
you can making a plate that stops green tip with hardware store materials and fit into a carrier. whats even better is the backing was made of epoxy resin and fiberglass when tested. this is important to know because if fiberglass backing with porcelain tile as the strike face stops green tip then imagine easy to find mild steel backing with the same strike face. definitely heavier (~11 pound, could be as low as 8 with certain light weight 3+ plates) but now try the strike face on a 3 or 3+ steel plate. now you have a reason to own a stock pile of cheap level 3 or 3+ steel plates with some home depot tiles, duct tape and caulking/adhesive. this is will cover most scenarios, is cheap and significantly more accessible.
I live in the rural south so there’s more people with hunting rifles than ARs and AKs. For me, level 4 is what I’ll go with, I can train for the extra weight, not a visit from the grim reaper
Almost had me untill that 308 comment. Like the 556, 308 is very common and usually paired with 18-24inch barrels.
I would agree, except for the fact that the battle rifle is really making a comeback. Companies like PTR and DSA exist because of battle rifles.
They exist because people are cheap and don’t shoot enough to know the difference.
I prefer SS109 to M855, I find it’s more consistent, but it really doesn’t matter coming out of a 20” barrel
I made a queen sized acupuncture bed made of green tips. Everybody had them, shooting range banned them 😑
...or just buy composite level 3. Theres no difference between 3 and 3+ per NIJ standards. M193 will probably defeat your steel armor, which I feel you're as likely to encounter, if not more likely, than m855/ss109. Yes, green tip will defeat pure UHMWPE plates, just like m193 will defeat steel. Composite plates are still level 3 and will stop 308, and probably many other threats that you would likely encounter. Threats like many common hunting rifle calibers out there, but may fail backface just like your SRT fails against 308. Level 4 will stop many different armor piercing rounds to include the standard issue m855a1. All the SRT is is a thinner, lighter, (i.e. less protective) composite plate. Everything has a tradeoff. Steel fails to m193 but can take many many hits and is heavy. Pure polyethylene fails to m855, is thick, but is light and positively bouyant. Composite is a little thinner, heavier, but stops the widest array of threats. Ill take my chances with my NIJ certified choice.
Can a "special threat" plate stand up to 6.5 Creedmoor? It's modern and popular.
I’m not wearing anything that doesn’t stop a hopped up .308 because that’s what I’ll be running (along with 10mm 1700fps penetrators) in a fill-in-the-blank scenario. Hopefully, we’re all on the same team in the worst case scenario, though if I’m honest it seems unlikely given the division that stokes the fires.
.308 team here!
Yes as far as I know and have seen a lot of people are buying AR's in .308 while owning an AR in 5.56 specifically because they'd wanna get through body armor if possible.
I've seen B.S. level IV plates that are lighter weight than their lvl 3+. So if that's the case, why would I want 3+ other than slight cost savings?
I have level IIIA fitted in one of your carriers, you make a great product and I appreciate the quality.
Great to hear and very much appreciated!
20 inch barrel with 55gr goes through most iii+, not sure where these fall on that spectrum. But most people who know what they are doing are training for pelvic girdle shots.
Workout in your body armor several times a week, ore die tired.
Just a question from someone who knows very little about armor and getting shot. If you get the lighter weight lvl3+ is there a force reduction pad you can have with it to reduce impact from the rounds? I’ve heard that broken bones kind of a mood killer.
Mos Def taken level 4 to be honest. I live in Texas a d AR-10s are super common down here. All those big rifle rounds combined or just as big of a threat as 556 and 762 whete I live
I don't want to make this an objective statement. But a lot of this sounds like "I love it because I make it", if the purpose is for the safety of others, then one should bring up alternatives besides their own company, but at the same time it's his company and his mind not mine so I don't really know anything that's going on in the video 🤷♂
I don't plan on humping my plate carrier through the woods, so I am OK with a battleship approach considering the AR10 in the gun case. Level iv for me.
Great video! What plates do you guys offer in 11x14? I only see the AR500/600 III+ plates in that size.
I believe all we offer right now in 11x14 are the steel options!
@@TacticonArmament Thanks! Us tall guys need more options
Own a few products good stuff so far, Y’all should send some plates up to Demolition Ranch, could net a lot of plate sales including myself
3+ will stop AP .308 and standard 30-06. Don't really need more than that. The armor I like has anti sprawling plus the carrier itself helps with sprawling as well.
7.62 NATO and its Russian cousin are just a bit too common with the bubbas and hunters where I live. I'd want to see how much force transfers through on a 762 hit with a trauma pad before I go all-in on an SRT.
Fair point, hopefully in a SHTF scenario the hunters and bubbas aren't trying to use their reserves on people on the 2a team
Alot of my buddies are building AR10s now. Is it as popular as Ar 15? No. I do agree. I as well run 3 plus. Its a good balance.
"But I'm, not worried about getting shot by a .308."
Me who has an AR-10 as my SHTF rifle 😬
1000% right on the green tip not a fan but the only thing I could find in 2021 still have 500 rounds laying in the corner of the safe somewhere.
Since you're not a fan, i'll buy it from you, lol.
I respect this guy. he’s willing to share expert advice with us about why level 4 plates are bad even though he sells them. If that doesn’t show transparency than I don’t know what does.
Will green tip really pierce lvl3? I know tons of people with 30-06. I would say 30-06 is the most prevalent rifle in the community where I grew up. Also yes I have seen plenty of black tips in people safes. Your not worried about 308? 308 is what ar is chambered in, hell sometimes I keep it in the truck so you’ve basically just convinced me to go lvl4.