Just bought some level 4 plates last night from RMA on sale and then I came across your armor systems and videos. I knew it was too good to be true. Just bought a set of urs 30 mins ago, I could tell from a single glance the construction materials for GTS is far superior and for the same amount of money. I wish the set on sale was multi curve but Ill take superior protection over comfort. This will be everyday carry at work for me so comfort was paramount but the gap in quality is significant. Thank you for bringing that real American 🇺🇸 edge to edge qualityat an affordable price!
Thank you much for your trust. We do have multi-curved monolithics using Bitossi tile. My own personal experience has been that the mosaics offer superior multi-hit protection, especially when the shots are close together. Thanks again.
Some companies use a smaller, retracted strike face to save on weight… a 10x12 plate in alumina goes from 8 pounds to 6 by removing 1” along the edge and replacing it with foam!
Just for the sake of fun, if I were to make a plate at home, what kind of off the shelf material could be used for a strike face? Are there specific kinds of tile other than genetic bathroom tile that would work, assuming the wear face is adequate?
Good question but never use bathroom tile. This is specialized ballistic ceramic that undergoes powder pressing and kiln heat / cool for hours that increases its density. Much different than bathroom tile.
if you arnt moving a lot and are defending a position, heavy armor is obviously better...but most ppl, in a SHTF scenario are going to be moving around a lot, and having extremely heavy armor (steel plates) is going to slow you tf down dramatically...
My experience with that is that projectile fragments still exit the PE steel interface layer. Fragments move parallel to the steel strike face and out the adhesive layer. Especially true with larger calibers.
When combining materials you always have to remember that the post-impact motion of projectiles is not always from front to back. The “give” of a PE backer helps keep the projectile and fragments moving in a strike face to wear face motion (good). But with steel, there is no gradual deceleration and fragmentation which means that the fragments splash against the strike face and move parallel… which unfortunately is aligned with materials boundary layers and adhesive layers. This results in delamination of all sorts and fragments moving upwards and outwards toward plate periphery (where you are).
Neat stuff! Especially the crack arresting layer, thinking of doing something similar in an upcomming project using 3 plies of a carbon-aramid-glass tri-weave and steel mesh. If its not like a trade secret, how thick is the arresting layer? Also do you sell PE backers by themselves?
After many years of experimenting and testing I’d suggest retaining focus on the real purposes of the CA layer…. 1. Holds ceramic strike face in place relative to any neighbor fragments… and 2. Reduces ceramic particles ejecting from the strike face. Re number 1: really don’t need to be overly fancy. High density PE works, especially 250gm2. Re 2: the thickness has an impact on reduction of ceramic particulate ejection starting at .5mm and most materials optimize this effect at 4mm thickness. We are using some graphene weave now and it works well… very strong.
Regarding the PE plates - we do not provide them separately for a number of reasons. Believe it or not there are lower pressure solutions for shaping PE plates that are highly effective.
However I don’t want to sound like a know it all. Learning more every day and with every conversation. I followed you and would be real interested in your progress. Although the armor industry is tough and cyclical… if catastrophe really hits - we will need a network of armor builders across the nation that can keep folks supplied.
Interesting but the tile themselves are not enough. Usually 35-45 layers of PE needs to back the ceramic for rifle protection. Total number varies and testing is needed!
To be fair unless you are buying from an overseas fly-by-night company most manufacturers are pretty up front about their plates being edge to edge or if they are made with a 1/2" foam border. It's less than ideal BUT the poors want access to 6lb plates and plenty of people don't want to break the bank on a spare/loaner set. I picked up a set of RTS lightweight plates a few years back for next to nothing. Do they have a foam border? Yup. Will they still stop a level 4 threat unless you roll a nat 1 and get clipped in the very edge of the plate? Yup. In the event of SHTF is the person I toss that cheap setup to going to cry about having a strike face that's only 9"x11"? Maybe, but it beats the alternative so I really don't care.
This hasn’t been my experience. I agree though it’s acceptable if the consumer is aware of it. The foam is usually 1” wide, not 1/2”. Sometimes there is an “expanded” ceramic version people sell with a 1/2” border but most are 1”. This impacts the weight substantially… dropping an edge to edge alumina from 8 pounds to 6. Most people don’t understand the reason for the weight difference.
Unfortunately, most resellers and manufacturers do not inform consumers about the 1” edge. A few may allude to something that no one understands like “rubber edge that protects the ceramic.” But few would equate that to a retracted strike face. This design is most effective as a hybrid pistol/rifle protection plate but ONLY when the backer itself has been tested and is rated for HG2 threats.
No need to pay that for silicon carbide. Our model 6910 is monolithic edge to edge weighing in at 6 pounds with multi-hit proven performance. A 5 pound silicon carbide plate often has a 1” foam edge… especially if it’s RF3.
That actually angers me. They make it seem as though they are making it lighter by way of their oh so hyper advanced methods and knowledge of material science. Oh thats sick you use graphene with yours. Ive seen some videos about how to make graphene. Its very energy intensive, but doable DIY. I have an idea for a sort of custom armor system. Thats why im looking up videos like yours here. These dangerous times call for extreme measures so i figure extreme protection is in order. If I recall correctly, graphene is 200 times stronger than steel. I dont remember its weight in comparison to steel though. I want to make segmented overlapping plates for an armor system inspired by german gothic armor and samurai armor systems of old. Its gonna be stupendously heavy but i have some ideas for dealing with that.
All well-built edge to edge armor plate has some outside edge protection… usually a 1-2mm foam or rubber strip. If the ceramic covers 100% of the back plate - it’s edge to edge.
This is outstanding. Unfortunately Joe and Kamala have made life unaffordable so a lot of us out here are making our own. Decent plate carrier tricked out with just and level 4 front and back is pushing $1,000 or more. I know a lot of people, myself includes are hitting the hardware store and concocting different variations and combinations that will stop an -06 projectile. Anyway. Good stuff. Appreciate ya. Godspeed and stay frosty.
You can buy our OA+ outsourced version for $99 each… check the ballistics report. Stopped 4 rounds of .30 M2AP. Doesn’t have to be expensive or require a trip to Lowe’s.
For various reasons, some manufacturing is moving to South Korea. There are other parts of Asia (Japan-South Asia) that provide other related goods and services. Of course the vast manufacturing expertise remains in China. Like any country, in China there are renowned specialists and also those who permit economics to dominate decision-making. The majority of the world’s raw materials involving ceramic powder and processing comes from China. They have been creating specialty ceramics for 10,000 years. We follow performance and specs… not country names. We have found that pursuit of performance versus costs gives us a superior product that can compete with any body armor plate on the market. Our sources include companies with proven abilities to meet and sustain our materials specs. We also use Italy’s Bitossi for an increasing amount of work - although they cannot provide a performance or cost based equivalent to the mosaic ceramic tile arrays that we use for performance reasons. Bitossi is quite good at monolithics and we have to build those plates entirely differently. I have various NDAs that restrict me from discussing details, but you would be surprised to know the number of large US-based manufacturers of polyethylene material who source Chinese fibers. Within the confines of all of these things, business strategies are developed. For us, it is less about the country of origin of source material and more about purity, quality, performance and cost. We have evolved to this view over the years as we have noticed various US-based materials that were either substandard (not always) or did not exist (ceramic tile arrays) at an acceptable price point for our customers. For example, we occasionally reach out to specialty ceramics firms in the USA for quotes involving ceramic array shapes and thickness. These quotes usually involve the actual testing of a sample I provide them. Because of the cost of US labor and due to the manufacturing differences between powder pressing and injection molding- the US quotes usually come in 4-5x higher for the same quality. We will continue to seek and establish sourcing partnerships that put performance versus affordability in focus.
IMO that shouldn’t be the standard by which you judge life saving products. I have severe glaucoma and the glare from lights causes significant discomfort. Thanks for your patience.
Not sure what is meant by physical work. Assembly of the mosaic strike faces, cutting and pressing or high pressure forming of PE, oven based adhesive activation, and covering takes more than 45 minutes for 2 plates. But then again - maybe you’re right and I’m wrong.
Just bought some level 4 plates last night from RMA on sale and then I came across your armor systems and videos. I knew it was too good to be true. Just bought a set of urs 30 mins ago, I could tell from a single glance the construction materials for GTS is far superior and for the same amount of money. I wish the set on sale was multi curve but Ill take superior protection over comfort. This will be everyday carry at work for me so comfort was paramount but the gap in quality is significant. Thank you for bringing that real American 🇺🇸 edge to edge qualityat an affordable price!
Thank you much for your trust. We do have multi-curved monolithics using Bitossi tile. My own personal experience has been that the mosaics offer superior multi-hit protection, especially when the shots are close together. Thanks again.
Respect to you guys that want to keep Stuff to a higher standard.
Thanks for the education! You have gained my respect and patronage.
Thanks. Most people don’t know this stuff and consider most armor equal when it is not!
What is the reason why both the backing and the ceramic aren’t the same size?
Some companies use a smaller, retracted strike face to save on weight… a 10x12 plate in alumina goes from 8 pounds to 6 by removing 1” along the edge and replacing it with foam!
Just for the sake of fun, if I were to make a plate at home, what kind of off the shelf material could be used for a strike face? Are there specific kinds of tile other than genetic bathroom tile that would work, assuming the wear face is adequate?
Good question but never use bathroom tile. This is specialized ballistic ceramic that undergoes powder pressing and kiln heat / cool for hours that increases its density. Much different than bathroom tile.
Some manufacturers use an injecting process also… but these tile are not everyday ceramic construct.
Thank you for this information. Even when researching and comparing plates online I never knew any of this.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video!!! It means a lot when a company has nothing to hide.
Hello - want to be as transparent as possible. Some things can’t be revealed but we do want to create an informed community. Thanks.
Super pleased with the plates I got from you guys. Really enjoy all the informative videos.
Glad you like them!
if you arnt moving a lot and are defending a position, heavy armor is obviously better...but most ppl, in a SHTF scenario are going to be moving around a lot, and having extremely heavy armor (steel plates) is going to slow you tf down dramatically...
Would not ever wear steel. That’s just me. I’ve hit steel plates with .30-06 and .308 and knocked the frag coating off in one shot.
How good is a polyethylene strike face and an AR500 steel wear face?
My experience with that is that projectile fragments still exit the PE steel interface layer. Fragments move parallel to the steel strike face and out the adhesive layer. Especially true with larger calibers.
When combining materials you always have to remember that the post-impact motion of projectiles is not always from front to back. The “give” of a PE backer helps keep the projectile and fragments moving in a strike face to wear face motion (good). But with steel, there is no gradual deceleration and fragmentation which means that the fragments splash against the strike face and move parallel… which unfortunately is aligned with materials boundary layers and adhesive layers. This results in delamination of all sorts and fragments moving upwards and outwards toward plate periphery (where you are).
This video dispelled all my doubts, im glad i can rest assured my family and friends are safe behind GTS armor.
Thank you!
Neat stuff! Especially the crack arresting layer, thinking of doing something similar in an upcomming project using 3 plies of a carbon-aramid-glass tri-weave and steel mesh. If its not like a trade secret, how thick is the arresting layer? Also do you sell PE backers by themselves?
After many years of experimenting and testing I’d suggest retaining focus on the real purposes of the CA layer…. 1. Holds ceramic strike face in place relative to any neighbor fragments… and 2. Reduces ceramic particles ejecting from the strike face. Re number 1: really don’t need to be overly fancy. High density PE works, especially 250gm2. Re 2: the thickness has an impact on reduction of ceramic particulate ejection starting at .5mm and most materials optimize this effect at 4mm thickness. We are using some graphene weave now and it works well… very strong.
Regarding the PE plates - we do not provide them separately for a number of reasons. Believe it or not there are lower pressure solutions for shaping PE plates that are highly effective.
However I don’t want to sound like a know it all. Learning more every day and with every conversation. I followed you and would be real interested in your progress. Although the armor industry is tough and cyclical… if catastrophe really hits - we will need a network of armor builders across the nation that can keep folks supplied.
I use 1 inch hexagon 1/4 inch tiles wrapped in 2 layers of Kevlar in a 8x10 to fit my vest. Flexible and body forming.
Interesting but the tile themselves are not enough. Usually 35-45 layers of PE needs to back the ceramic for rifle protection. Total number varies and testing is needed!
To be fair unless you are buying from an overseas fly-by-night company most manufacturers are pretty up front about their plates being edge to edge or if they are made with a 1/2" foam border. It's less than ideal BUT the poors want access to 6lb plates and plenty of people don't want to break the bank on a spare/loaner set. I picked up a set of RTS lightweight plates a few years back for next to nothing. Do they have a foam border? Yup. Will they still stop a level 4 threat unless you roll a nat 1 and get clipped in the very edge of the plate? Yup. In the event of SHTF is the person I toss that cheap setup to going to cry about having a strike face that's only 9"x11"? Maybe, but it beats the alternative so I really don't care.
This hasn’t been my experience. I agree though it’s acceptable if the consumer is aware of it. The foam is usually 1” wide, not 1/2”. Sometimes there is an “expanded” ceramic version people sell with a 1/2” border but most are 1”. This impacts the weight substantially… dropping an edge to edge alumina from 8 pounds to 6. Most people don’t understand the reason for the weight difference.
Unfortunately, most resellers and manufacturers do not inform consumers about the 1” edge. A few may allude to something that no one understands like “rubber edge that protects the ceramic.” But few would equate that to a retracted strike face. This design is most effective as a hybrid pistol/rifle protection plate but ONLY when the backer itself has been tested and is rated for HG2 threats.
Excellent information! Keep the information coming.
Hello and thank you.
I'm pretty sure boron carbide can be like 5 pounds and have proper coverage. The issue is you're paying like a grand unless you're uncle sam.
No need to pay that for silicon carbide. Our model 6910 is monolithic edge to edge weighing in at 6 pounds with multi-hit proven performance. A 5 pound silicon carbide plate often has a 1” foam edge… especially if it’s RF3.
Good info
Thank you.
Sure wish you could send them to New York
We actually can as long as you meet NY state law requirements.
That actually angers me. They make it seem as though they are making it lighter by way of their oh so hyper advanced methods and knowledge of material science.
Oh thats sick you use graphene with yours. Ive seen some videos about how to make graphene. Its very energy intensive, but doable DIY. I have an idea for a sort of custom armor system. Thats why im looking up videos like yours here. These dangerous times call for extreme measures so i figure extreme protection is in order. If I recall correctly, graphene is 200 times stronger than steel. I dont remember its weight in comparison to steel though. I want to make segmented overlapping plates for an armor system inspired by german gothic armor and samurai armor systems of old. Its gonna be stupendously heavy but i have some ideas for dealing with that.
There is room for constant improvement. Keep us informed. Sounds interesting.
Sub15min video is considered a "long video" now.. dayum i must be getting old
And believe me… the info that needs to get out takes a lot longer than that!
So I'm still better off with my titanium sets of plates,?
Go with what’s good for you.
Still no edge to edge protection.
For?
All well-built edge to edge armor plate has some outside edge protection… usually a 1-2mm foam or rubber strip. If the ceramic covers 100% of the back plate - it’s edge to edge.
This is outstanding. Unfortunately Joe and Kamala have made life unaffordable so a lot of us out here are making our own.
Decent plate carrier tricked out with just and level 4 front and back is pushing $1,000 or more.
I know a lot of people, myself includes are hitting the hardware store and concocting different variations and combinations that will stop an -06 projectile.
Anyway. Good stuff. Appreciate ya. Godspeed and stay frosty.
You can buy our OA+ outsourced version for $99 each… check the ballistics report. Stopped 4 rounds of .30 M2AP. Doesn’t have to be expensive or require a trip to Lowe’s.
All you had to do is shiot both and show us the performance.
There’s A LOT more to it than that… check out some of our testing videos on the channel.
“Asia made”? Tell me its Chinese without telling me it’s Chinese
For various reasons, some manufacturing is moving to South Korea. There are other parts of Asia (Japan-South Asia) that provide other related goods and services. Of course the vast manufacturing expertise remains in China.
Like any country, in China there are renowned specialists and also those who permit economics to dominate decision-making.
The majority of the world’s raw materials involving ceramic powder and processing comes from China. They have been creating specialty ceramics for 10,000 years. We follow performance and specs… not country names. We have found that pursuit of performance versus costs gives us a superior product that can compete with any body armor plate on the market. Our sources include companies with proven abilities to meet and sustain our materials specs.
We also use Italy’s Bitossi for an increasing amount of work - although they cannot provide a performance or cost based equivalent to the mosaic ceramic tile arrays that we use for performance reasons. Bitossi is quite good at monolithics and we have to build those plates entirely differently.
I have various NDAs that restrict me from discussing details, but you would be surprised to know the number of large US-based manufacturers of polyethylene material who source Chinese fibers.
Within the confines of all of these things, business strategies are developed. For us, it is less about the country of origin of source material and more about purity, quality, performance and cost. We have evolved to this view over the years as we have noticed various US-based materials that were either substandard (not always) or did not exist (ceramic tile arrays) at an acceptable price point for our customers.
For example, we occasionally reach out to specialty ceramics firms in the USA for quotes involving ceramic array shapes and thickness. These quotes usually involve the actual testing of a sample I provide them. Because of the cost of US labor and due to the manufacturing differences between powder pressing and injection molding- the US quotes usually come in 4-5x higher for the same quality.
We will continue to seek and establish sourcing partnerships that put performance versus affordability in focus.
Plates look quality but dayum i can't trust a man that wears sunglasses inside. Sorry G⚡️S
IMO that shouldn’t be the standard by which you judge life saving products. I have severe glaucoma and the glare from lights causes significant discomfort. Thanks for your patience.
I make my own level 4 plates.
Not hard at all.
Physical work takes 45mins for 2 plates.
3 days to cure
Not sure what is meant by physical work. Assembly of the mosaic strike faces, cutting and pressing or high pressure forming of PE, oven based adhesive activation, and covering takes more than 45 minutes for 2 plates. But then again - maybe you’re right and I’m wrong.