Crumbley Prosecutor Speaks - Which parent she says is most responsible + her thoughts on sentencing?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 тра 2024
- #lawyeryouknow #oxfordhighschool #ethancrumbley #jamescrumbley
Join our ESPN Tournament Bracket Challenge Here! (The Password to Join is chatyouknow): fantasy.espn.com/tc/sharer?ch...
Entire Crumbley Playlist: • Oxford Shooting
🔴 Do you or someone you know need to speak to a real lawyer about a case? Or do you find yourself needing legal advice? Please reach out to our firm and we will make sure to answer your questions or find someone who can. Our consultations are always free and confidential. You can call our firm at (727)441-9030 or email us at lawyeryouknow@gmail.com.
✅ For business inquiries contact me at lawyeryouknow@gmail.com
✅ Let's connect: www.tragoslaw.com/
Twitter - @tragoslaw
Instagram - /tragoslaw
Facebook - /tragoslaw
TikTok - /tragoslaw
✅ Join our email list here - bit.ly/33lV3Mb
✅ Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @lawyeryouknow
✅ Get your Lawyer You Know merch here - bit.ly/LYKMerch
🔴 NOT LEGAL ADVICE - Розваги
Join our ESPN Tournament Bracket Challenge Here! (The Password to Join is chatyouknow): fantasy.espn.com/tc/sharer?challengeId=240&from=espn&context=GROUP_INVITE&edition=espn-en&groupId=fb139649-3490-4b69-982c-4dc31bc00e45&joinKey=c81205f5-1f64-32af-b557-d47deacfbf1a
Funny, she doesn’t mention the Dean of students and counselor that where in the “know” as well.
I believe that both parents were equally culpable but for different reasons.
Exactly, me too. Both parents are culpable for not checking the backpack or mentioning the gun purchase. But James is particularly culpable because he bought the gun, failed to secure it (and knew it). Also, his running home to check the gun (rather than to the school) shows that he may have known that Ethan's action was foreseeable. Jennifer is particularly culpable because she didn't know what happened with the gun after she and Ethan brought it home from the gun range. She said she left the securing of the gun up to James. It was still on her to find out from James exactly what he did with the gun - especially after seeing that disturbing drawing. When she was on her way to the meeting with the counselor, her boyfriend texted her and asked her about the gun...she lied when she texted that it was in her car. That showed a blatant disregard by her as to the actual whereabouts of the gun. They both failed their legal duty and should really pay the same price.
I think both parent could be civil responsible, not criminally
@phileasler5401 That's a mute point given that they've been found guilty in criminal court by jury of their peers.
Maybe she should have been truthful and put in what Ethan said!!! They did everything to keep him out..can’t fully defend if jury doesn’t hear total truth.
They couldn't call him as a witness, because he said he'd "plead the 5th". The video, alone, couldn't be used as evidence because it wasn't a sworn statement, & he couldn't be asked, to substantiate it, & offer it as fact.
It wasn't a statement by or to either party(unlike at EC's sentencing), so it'd be dismissed as hearsay, irrelevant, & non-admissible.
A few reasons, I think it couldn't be used as evidence.
Thank you Peter for keeping us updated on this case! 💗 I know you’re super busy, but I would love for you to update us on Richard Allen/the Delphi case and his trial that is now set for the beginning of May.
I have a question, excuse my ignorance, but how was the shooter charged as an adult, but his parents were charged because he was a minor?
This is the million dollar question!
An even better question is why it is acceptable to voters that school officials received immunity agreements to testify. Almost like the schools legal counsel would have plead the 5th, indicating criminal liability.
I hope the school board is removed, replaced and personally sued for negligence.
#rewatch crew….this job just keeps getting in my way of watching 😂😂😂
I'm with you Peter!!! lets see what happens
As someone who had a child in that school that day, I can confirm that I was not joyful when the verdict was read. In fact, I cried. I was grateful that they were found guilty but it was a bittersweet victory.
I'm not naive enough to believe that this wasn't, in part, politically motivated on the prosecutor's part. Oxford is a mostly conservative, rural area. And despite any political differences, I was thankful that Karen Macdonald brought these charges. Because I believe it goes beyond the guns. It's about parental responsibility and it's far past time that we start having that conversation.
There are so many, little things, these "parents" could have done that would have kept these charges from being filed. They didn't.
I have ties to the Oxford community. My heart broke that day, as I worked a mere 20 minutes from the school.
I witnessed subtle trauma reactions in athletes and family of athletes at a track meet my son ran at Oakland University the spring after the MSU shooting. It was terrible to see MSU athletes, and some of their Oxford family, wince and tense up with every firing of the starting gun.
The average person against these charges and subsequent convictions don't understand that this doesn't set a precedent for all parents of all minor criminals to be similarly charged. But it does set a precedent for parents who are this negligent to assume responsibility.
❤ I’m glad your child was ok ♥️♥️♥️♥️
@@ScatteredAndConfusedit sets NO. precedent for all parents of children who commit major crimes. Maybe for white parents, but certainly NOT for all parents. We’ve have HUNDREDS of VERY HEINOUS crimes committed since this occurred and NOT ONE SINGLE OTHER PARENT HAS BEEN CHARGED, much less CONVICTED. This woman had a personal goal and that is to get into politics and THAT was her personal goal.
Oxford is full of rural gun owners. Please be aware. The demon who pulled the trigger was at fault!!! I’ve been on the fence with this case! This is political for this woman! The school? Of course they’re at fault!!!
@@juliemaring6048 I'm pretty sure that if you re-read my comment I specifically said that this does NOT set a precedent to charge ALL parents of minors who commit crimes, so I'm not sure wth you think you're refuting to me.
It would’ve been interesting to see how a change of location might’ve changed the outcome in these cases. I think the number 1 underlying factor in the jury decisions was the fact that these people needed to go home and face their community at the end of the day.
@admquinn3235 - I strongly disagree. I trust the jury and feel that any jury would have found the same outcome.
Yeah especially with James' trial. I think they just wanted to go home. They were scared to find him not guilty. If they did all hell would have broken loose. I wonder too especially with James if a change of location would have given him a not guilty. Especially when Jennifer's verdict was fresh. His jury should have been sequestered and hers given the media location.
Sentencing will be interesting if defendants are in the same room
Do they have different sentences days ?
@@mmhoen same day
Most likely they will be brought in one at a time and not both in the courtroom at the same time.
I think they will be in the courtroom together because the thinking is to only have victims give impact statements once (well, twice, since so many gave statements at the shooter's sentencing.) Before they turned on each other they were co- defendants, and always together in the courtroom early on. They were admonished by the judge for whispering and signing “I love you“ to each other when the lawyers were at the bench. It was so disrespectful. I don't think they’ll be so lovey-dovey at sentencing now that mom's affair came to light.
Thank you Peter.
Thank you again Peter for this update. 🙏😊
Thank you Peter! Enjoy your conference!
Thanks for working so hard for your viewers.😊
Thank you, Peter!
👍🏼Thank you, Peter!
She’ll recommend the max
Good afternoon everyone! I am watching as a passenger in the car after PT 😂 didn’t want to miss you live
If parents are not neglecting their children they have nothing to worry about.
It's not just neglect.
Thanks Peter
First thank you so much like everyone - appreciate your hard work - amazing you can for this in- learn so much - second - I agree with your line of thinking in terms how all this will play out with schools - future litigation etc her comments were very well measured def a smart lady
It’s important you emphasized that
Thanks!😊
At the end of the day, it was justice served for the the fact of they bought the gun and ignored all the signs 😢
Good afternoon everyone!
Currently sitting in the brand new Deukmejian courthouse in Long Beach CA waiting, which is the biggest part of jury duty
Thank you for your service! 🫶🏽
Peter thanks again for your coverage! As a father whose childern are grown I reflect back on things and the biggest thing I think the parents are guilty of is not securing the firearms and ammunition. I'm not saying they were good parents just that no matter how hard you try sometimes it doesn't affect things like it should. If it were one of my kids that were killed I might want to see maximum sentence but my gut tells me that finding them guilty is the real win here. Part of me would be fine with time served because I doubt either of them want to go thru a trial again and I think any sentence of signifcant length will create appeals and dragging everyone thru this again. So the real question is where between time served and more time does the effort of an appeal become not worth it?
2:30 the answer to that is emphatically no. Prosecution is not preventive. Call it retribution, or punishment. Laws don't prevent behavior, at best they discourage. You can paint a line down the middle of the road to define lanes and still you'll occasionally see a head on collision when people drive over them
Laws also affect social norms of what is and isn't acceptable. Beating children used to be very normal forms of acceptable punishment. Laws most definitely shape societal behaviors. That's why certain things are rampant here that you don't see in other countries and vice-versa.
@jenniferlyons9069 the argument was the law is preventive. But laws aren't preventive. They don't stop crime, they punish crime.
This won't affect the outcomes the way they think. Most parents have blindspots for kids. Very few can even consider the possibility their kid would do that. So i don't believe it will change behaviors significantly
Take for granted it affects some. On balance I think it will encourage already helicopter parents MORE to seek diagnoses for kids. To the extent those diagnses are wrong or overblown it will limit people's work opportunities. Those are kids that will be DQd from military (for example). Meanwhile, the higher risk groups without helicopter parents will continue to not be hypervigilant parents
Also it changes liability and WILL be used to address low-income (largely minority) parents with criminal kids.
This is a net-negative precedent
Sentencing will be interesting
I used to work at a shooting range. No once did anyone bring their teenaged or pre-teen to shoot with them. Not once! Instead of purchasing a gun for your child, buy them horse riding lessons, or skiing lessons, or skateboarding lessons, art lessons, etc. And certainly, if your child asks for mental help, get them a psychologist and/or psychiatrist. Do family things together, like camping, church and church events, picnics, museums, science experiments, get involved at their school, make homemade pizza together, make a vision board, play basketball or baseball together, plant a garden and/or flowers/trees together, go for a hike, help a neighbor, pretend to be an interviewer with your child and let them interview you, and more. As a parent, your primary focus should be bringing up your child to be a respected, intelligent, cultured person. Families should be doing homework together - adding discussion to history, science, etc so that the information is clear and remembered. A parent's job / career is important to bring home the bacon, but once home both or either parent should be not just living with the child but learning from them and teaching them, listening to their needs and wants, teaching them about money, social skills, etc. Children are FAMILY! FAMILIES should be doing things together.
From a fellow Greek-thank you!
Efharisto poli poli!
I live in south east Michigan, i taught Sunday school in Oxford, time has passed, and the kids i taught were in that school that day. All are physically ok. Because of that this case has effected me; while watching it play out on TV, i cryed, I'm angry 😠.
Karen has been straight forward, Clear and precise from day one. You always knew what she was thinking 🤔. No back sliding.
She has my respect too. Straight and focused. Smart as a whip. Love her and happy she’s out in Oakland County.
The school should had issues as well. After seeing that drawing, they should have contacted the parents and the police to search that backpack.
“Cryed”
@@cargopilotguy305...cried 😅
The prosecutor and I have VERY different definitions of the word “egregious”. I’m still not on board with this conviction. I hope the parents get time served.
She loves that word. She uses it every chance that she gets.
As a mom of 3 sons, I just need to know what hair styling product Peter uses. 😁😅🤷🏻♀️
Omg yes, I have a curly haired son who loves to wear it longer and I was wondering this as well
I would disagree I would I say drugs kills children as well.. but the school schools be held accountable as well…
They have 100% started a new way of setting a precedent
I am still uncomfortable and uneasy about the charges. I don’t think this law or these charges do anything to prevent gun violence.
Truly was to set a precedent. The world is full of suck face parents. My boys took gun safety classes early in life and our family will always be standing for up for legal gun rights.
Truly was to set a precedent. The world is full of suck face parents. My boys took gun safety classes early in life and our family will always be standing for up for legal gun rights.
Preventing gun violence was not the object of this trial...parents are responsible to care for their kids and also to keep danerous objects away from them...teach your kids not to kill with any instrument!
I did go through the Michigan sentencing guidelines, and my best guess is 5-10. Not having much in the way of priors, i think one or both have a misdemeanor from about 20 years ago, that'll help them. I think EC is at Thumb correctional in Lapeer, Jehn will go to Huron Valley between Ann Arbor and Milan and then I bet James with go to Thumb unless they don't want him to be with EC, then Freeland or St. Louis. He's not Jackson material! 😊
The root of “political” is the word “policy.” So, in order to change public policy, expect a “political” thread running through this. It is the way of our democracy as it goes about trying change the status quo.
Absolutely.
I’ve gone back and listen to Ethan’s trial again. I’m very curious as to why the defense didn’t use or maybe wasn’t allowed to use the video he made the day before the shooting??
I thought Ethan pled guilty and skipped trial. Unless you mean one of the parents trials? Cause they couldn’t use the video because of relevance
@@BumbletheBeahe had a miller hearing
@@cathyscraftylife1309 yeah they played the video during that. It definitely wasn’t allowed during the parents trials because it was not relevant/not beneficial to either side. he literally said he didn’t have a loving caring life which led him to his choice, yet at the same time he’s saying that it’s all his idea and plan
Dammit I thought this was actually his attorney speaking not the prosecutor she’s been all over the place. I don’t care what she’s gonna say. She has been speaking since the minute the trial is over. When is his attorney ever going to speak?
I like the green mat ☺️
You are correct I know nothing about basketball but I’m happy you are doing this 👍
Parental responsibilities should be automatic. However, their most important responsibility is to teach their children about personal accountability: they can't go around doing what they want. Kids need to learn -- and have it chiseled in their brains -- that all actions have consequences, and each person is responsible for what they do. Courtroom battles and jury verdicts teach nothing: they simply penalize "after the fact "
HI Peter and Chat. 👋 💜 🇺🇸
🙋
Does anyone know where or what interview this coverage came from ? I can’t seem to find it ! TYIA
Political? Urgh. As a parent, I was very responsible for making reasonable decisions about what my sons had access to- and it often changed what I could do for a few years. No big deal. Jury got it right.
The perpetrator was found mentally competent and tried as an adult. This directly contradicts the foundational arguments made to prosecute his parents which was that he was a mentally ill child who was not capable of acting as an adult.
The entire trial is a miscarriage of justice. The school officials were all given immunity agreements to testify -IE their own counsel would have had them plead the fifth, resulting in no testimony against the parents. One does not plead the fifth without a responsible risk of criminal liability.
The school; not the parents should be on trial.
@@kaiserwilhelm1938 parents purchased gun for him. They failed him and others. More than one person responsible IMO.
Hey 👋 everyone!
Something tells me mom. Because moms tend to get blamed for everything. We take heat rounds with or without involved dads. Its always on us, and not the dad too.
Right. And it seems she was the breadwinner in the family. She probably had less FaceTime with the son because of her job. I think father had lost his job and was doing door dash.
Cry more
Amen!!! Our state of Michigan is pro dad!!! Moms are responsible for
Could you not argue the state should be prosecute/held responsible if someone is injured from the state not enforcing the laws.😂
I really wish I didn't miss this live! I'm so curious Peter why was everyone freaking out saying this could set a dangerous precedent? And once Jennifer was convicted, didn't that set the precedent for James' case?
And why wouldn't that have been a reason to appeal Jennifer's case if James did end up getting found not guilty?
Karen conflicted the criminal justice system she so loves .... She blamed ethan fully responsible so it wasnt the parents fault but then prosecuted the parents
Actually no, she didn't say Ethan was "fully responsible" or everything in connection with the crime. She said Ethan was fully responsible for the crime of murder, which is true...he is the murderer. But just because he was tried as an adult doesn't mean he's fully responsible for everything in connection to it. A child can be tried as an adult simply due to the nature and severity of the crime...it has little to do with the distribution of responsibility. The parents were charged because of a series of actions and inactions (mostly inactions) that allowed Ethan to continue having the firearm at the school that day, which then led to the murders.
@@cmsmhpbut what law did they break?
@@lanielouwraps They broke the Michigan involuntary manslaughter law. Under that law, the prosecution is required to proved one of two possible theories. The first theory relies on gross negligence. This theory, as the Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald explained to the court, means that the defendant “caused death” by acting in a grossly negligent manner.
The second theory hinges on a failure to perform a legal duty. This theory means that the defendant had a legal duty to the victim, yet “willfully neglected or refused to perform” that duty - and that this “failure to perform it was grossly negligent to human life”. Ultimately, it means that a victim’s death was directly caused by the defendant’s failure to perform this legal duty.
Judge Cheryl Matthews defined the legal duty in this case when giving the jury their instructions. “In Michigan, a parent has a legal duty to exercise reasonable care to control their minor child so as to prevent the minor child from intentionally harming others or prevent the minor child from conducting themselves in a way that creates an unreasonable risk of bodily harm to others,” she said.
If either or both of these two theories are proven, that is “sufficient to establish the crime of involuntary manslaughter,” the judge said. I think the the second ("legal duty") theory was proven. By failing to either remove Ethan from the school, check the backpack, or mention the recent gun purchase to school officials, the parents failed to provide the reasonable care to prevent Ethan from conducting himself in a way that created an unreasonable risk to the lives of the students at school that day.
@@cmsmhp she stretched a law to make a case. If we charged parents this way, we would need more prisons. “Ordinary care”, I have ordinary care cases, none of which fit her new definition of ordinary care.
@@lanielouwraps I respect your opinion, but I still don't think she stretched the law to make the case. I think any reasonable or responsible parent - after having bought their son a 9mm semiautomatic pistol, and then only hiding it (but not securing it) - and then, after having been shown that disturbing drawing (containing a near-exact likeness of the gun they just purchased, and the words "the thoughts won't stop...help me", etc.) - would have found it incumbent on themselves (aka, their "legal duty") to either check the backpack or mention the recent gun purchase - especially if they were unable to take Ethan home due to having to return to work. Because failure to do so blatantly ignores the significant risk of Ethan actually having the gun in the backpack, and is therefore seriously rolling the dice on the lives of others at the school. James immediately rushing home (instead of to the school) when the news broke goes to foreseeability, further underscoring that he may have thought Ethan was capable of performing such an act.
Hi everyone. Hi Peter
I wish this case had been settled using the full letter of the law. It doesn't matter if the jury came to the correct conclusion based on the law. This was the counties emotional verdict in my opinion. I hope the judge will give them a fair sentence.
"I wish this case had been settled using the full letter of the law. It doesn't matter if the jury came to the correct conclusion based on the law." Those two sentences seem completely contradictory with each other. I think the verdicts were correct and based on the objective evidence and the law, but I also hope the sentence is fair too - and nothing close to the maximum.
Okay, busted. I meant to say that the jury used their limited understanding of the law [which average people don't understand ]to come to their conclusion. Which I believe was incorrect. The case does not arrive to the level of gross negligence. I researched this case from a law prospective. If the judge is fair she will use her law background to come to a fair sentence. She will try to make everyone somewhat satisfied.@@cmsmhp
My opinion was that the jury was not given correct definition of the charges so the verdict was unjust.@@cmsmhp
I didn’t like Karen McDonald’s trial style. I always said she speaks like she’s really mad. I know people that live in Oxford County and they love her as their Prosecuting Attorney. She was mad that this happened to the people in her area. She’s mad that it happens to anybody. She’s on a mission to make change to make a difference. her mad tone is passion. I can listen a little differently now knowing that. Her post trial interviews have all been about the facts. I hear her now as “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to stand for this anymore”. I respect that.
Hi y'all 😊
Thanks for the coverage. Still disagree with the verdict and how the law was applied.
Hi!
I feel she’s an amazing prosecutor. Extremely intelligent
I don't trust this prosecutor and hope the parents get sentenced to time served, and then get their convictions overturned.
Replay crew 💙
I hope that this does help prevent gun violence. It needs to stop. Kids should worry about grades not being shot in school. I was lucky to have graduated just as school shootings was starting. It’s scary and preventable. This shouldn’t be political to protect our kids. Everyone should work together.
Love the Hawaiian shirt!👕
i feel the school is part blame in this too . someone should have searched his backpack, and also demanded he got help
They did the second part.
His parent dragged their feet. Mainly because they didn't care.
I can agree with her they both share blame. Whem the dad came back with the gun she could have been vigilant in keeping it secure . The made it to easy for their son to just go un lock and grab a pistol with amo. If you want a gun to be ready close by for home protection get a combination safe where you can keep it stored. Then lock it in a gun cabinet . Dont give your kid access to the comanation.. Hell he was not even of age to buy a shotgun, or spraypint in somestates.
Guns are not the only invention that happens to injure and kill people fairly easily. The car you drive, the gasoline you buy, you entire toolbox/shed, the OTC chemicals to clean your pool, hell even the gas an electrical lines going to your house can all be easily manipulated to kill people.
If you think big picture, the events which tend to kill the most people at once outside war, are usually associated with accidents involving technology (airplanes, trains etc) or infrastructure (buildings, dams, natural disaster etc.); not weapons.
One can also argue that the legal expectation that a parent MUST keep their firearms locked away from their children is a direct violation of the 2nd amendment as it clearly impedes ones ability to use a firearm in self defense.
The news stations should look up the actual statistics for gun violence. It is NOT the number one reason for death of children in America. I think this is incredibly misleading and inappropriate for someone of her stature to not verify. As impressive as she may be the fact that she is purposefully misleading on this very important topic, makes me believe this is 100% political.
So what exactly is the number one death in children?????
@@barbarabannasch3458 accidents... Which varies of course. Check out the CDC. It also lists them by age groups.
Actually it is. As of October last year. It used to be auto accidents.
I just looked in 2022 New England Journal of Medicine and in 2020 gun deaths edged out drug overdoses for first time by a small margin. So, they’re neck in neck.
I see your point though, she’s acting like she has a point to prove
When is Timothy Ferguson‘s father gonna be charged with “gross negligence” or something similar
Oh Peter we only got you for a short time !
I think she will go somewhere in the middle. 10 concurrent on all 4 IM charges, 2 yrs served, out in a 2-3 on parole. Something like that. Guess we will see…
Win with lying.
lyk usually stays neutral from the dozens of videos I have watched of his. Kinda feel like he is taking a personal stance on this one. I think we need to give the jurors more credit here as not being influenced by politics. 2 sets or jurors in 2 separate trials. The comment section on this video might as well be twitter. Hope this not direction he is taking his channel
Can they get up to 15 years PER child or 15 years total ? No one has made that clear .
It will be a total of 15 because they all will run concurrently not consecutive
@@Tammy_26Irwin well that sucks 🤨
@@Tammy_26Irwin I was going to say its 15 total that I think Karen McDonald will see to get. She shouldnt get it. Best case scearnio, they get credit for time served.
@@josephboza7448 15 is the max they can get and I don’t think they are going to get the max. I would be surprised if they do.
@@Tammy_26Irwin Karen McDonald gave the vibes off that she wants 15
Will they have both parents together? It would be better for the victims doing impact statements not to have to do it 2x on the same day
I’d be surprised that they would be in the same room. There was a reason they had separate trials.
My dad has owned guns all his life and ALWAYS locks them up knowing he could be held legally responsible if someone got a hold of one and hurt somebody. And this is in IDAHO, plus my dad is a staunch NRA supporter. I don’t think it’s a political issue at all that gun owners need to be responsible.
Karen did say from Day 1 that James & Jennifer were both responsible!
Peter, I’m having a few problems with you thinking the legal system and politics are somehow completely separate from each other. I’m struggling with you these days and I’ve enjoyed you up until now.
Peter-- Detroit Free Press is reporting that the threats James made from the jail that resulted in his communication privileges being shut down were directed towards this prosecutor. Can that be used against him in sentencing?
I expect she’ll ask for the max
No victory lap? Baloney. Prosecutors revel in their victories. Victories keep them employed and provide a platform that many move on to as defense attorneys.
If the prosecutor doesn’t only pick cases for wins, why do they not prosecute cases they can’t win, you cant have it both ways
I guess I don't see that statement is necessarily "having it both ways." I mean, if you know you're not going to win, then why tie up the court's time, your time, and the taxpayer's money on a fruitless endeavor that could be diverting important resources away from a prosecution of a more serious crime, or a crime that had a greater impact on the community? Prosecutors are human beings like the rest of us, with limited time and resources.
And I can see why she also said that she doesn't just only pick cases that she can win. Some cases are naturally difficult, like this one, but yet can have potentially wide-ranging impact on the way a community - or even the nation - views the particular issues at hand. Some cases are designed to find out exactly where the line should be drawn, going forward, on certain legal matters, so that there is better clarity in determining where legal responsibility lies.
Hit the like button!
The lady is taking a victory tour. If the parents had competent lawyers they would’ve been acquitted. If they had Mark Eiglarsh they would’ve been acquitted. Their lawyers were basically amateur hour public pretenders. They will win an appeal. This is far from over. They are not looking at any real time. The PSI is zero on both. No criminal record. She can’t give them the max. She has to sentence along the lines what 1000 other defendants received on the same charges. They probably get 4 years and some probation
Should never have been brought to court!! Kangaroo court..
The problem goes deeper than the term "gun violence". The gun is just the tool these people are using to commit these crimes. The real question is why do these people want to commit violence against other people at all? I don't think it helps the situation when the media for days on end talks about these shootings and violence in general and naming the people that do it. For those who feel like they are unrecognized or ignored in their life, this media coverage gives them the attention that they may not have gotten before.
The other issue falls on the criminal justice system as a whole when these DA's and Judges are not holding these people accountable for violent crimes and giving them slaps on the hand and releasing them with minimal or no punishment. Unfortunately, no one is holding them accountable when that happens.
These trials and convictions are not going to curb gun violence at all and is wishful thinking on her part.
Maybe the school environment where the perpetrator spent the majority of his waking life was cancer? Perhaps he as a victim of bullying or social rejection and had no advocates among the staff. Feasibly one or more of his teachers ignored their duty to report when he opened up, which is why immunity agreements were required to illicit school employee testimony.
Alternatively he was exposed to high amounts of lead or other psychoactive chemicals rending his psychotic.
None of these ideas were even examined - instead the DA and by association, the school, went directly after the parents who may have spent 10-15 hours with the perpetrator a week.
@@kaiserwilhelm1938 That is all possible, but I don't agree with charging the parents for their kid's actions. He was sentenced as an adult and they downplayed any mental health problems when it came to determining his fate. During his parent's trial, the mental health aspect became a large part of it. The state got to play both sides of the field and won.
@@Mr2004MCSS Agreed. If it was political, it wasn't on the issue of gun rights but on the issue of state liability.
FYI when you work for the county government in any capacity, you are de facto represented by the DA as you fall underneath their umbrella. Just food for thought.
@@kaiserwilhelm1938 I know how government works. I worked for the Federal Goverment for 26 years. Mcdonald claims that what started this entire investigation was where did Ethan get the gun to use in this shooting. Then it morphed into everything else. The juries in both cases stated it came down to not securing the firearm to where Ethan could not get it in deciding for guilty decisions. The state did push the gun issue pretty hard and Mcdonald has been talking about gun violence quite a bit in her recent interviews. I personally believe a lot of the reason they went after the Crumbleys was because they wanted to make it a gun issue.
Question… (I know Peter doesn’t really answer comments but in case any of you know) What would’ve happened if they (or anyone) were found not guilty after spending 2 years in jail? If you’re wrongfully accused of something & not given bail or can’t make bail, chances are you’ve lost homes/ cars/ property etc, you’re not making $, paying into your retirement/ pension/ social security etc, nobody’s ever going to hire you for a decent job, not to mention lawyers fees if you had them, you’ve missed major life events & time away from your family/ children, your mental & physical health is probably suffering… If you’re just wrongfully accused and trial takes years, does the state or federal courts pay them anything? If you can’t sue govt entities… is there any recourse? Is there anything they can do?
I think they'll get a significant upward departure from guidelines but will be sentened concurrently. I am guessing they'll get a sentence of 7 years to 15 years.
"will be sentened concurrently." Any basis for that? Just wanted to know.
@@newhorizon4066 My entire message is 1. a prediction and 2. Under Michigan law, concurrent sentencing is presumed.
I think they will get credit for time served. They should but will they thats the question.
It will make parents MORE responsible. The CRUMBLEYS were absolutely NEGLIGENT so more parents will be more diligent. Bringing the CRUMBLEYS to trial IS A BEGINNING.
They put the parents on trial because they didn't get the satisfaction of putting the shooter on trial. Parents were just careless.
This prosecutors repeated comment about guns being the number one killer of children (in the last interview she did) is such a manipulated stat. People who want guns banned decided to categorize kids 0-19 in ONE group, and then made this claim. When you separate them into multiple age groups, as is almost always done in these type of studies, you find it's only true for ages 14 -19. And furthermore, when you take out gang violence, it's ALSO not number one for that group of teens. ACCIDENTS (non gun related) are the actual number one killer of children. The fact this prosecutor used this misleading statistic at all tells me she's either ignorant about the facts, or is just using them for her political aspirations.
Exactly. The CDC breaks down the statistics. She is lying. Therefore she is politically motivated
Also I could not find any statistic which made gun violence number one.
Exactly! It’s not a true statement when you look at the way it should be.
She is ALL ABOUT her political aspirations and liberals are self serving liars if nothing else!
"#1 killer of gang-banging juvenile delinquents" just doesn't have the same ring to it 🤷♂️
Anything on James threats
That’s what I want to know!
No way she hasn't thought about sentencing. Like Peter said on one of the Rust shooting cases it looks like the prosecutor added the charge of tampering with evidence over the alleged cocaine possession as a way of giving the jury an option to give the defendant a win on some charges
Joke woman! I live in Michigan! This overzealous creature is very political. She knows how to speak!
She wants to be Governor. She will hammer parents!
Nobody is perfect! Parents are always going to be faulted no matter what!!!
The school is a joke! Can’t criminally charge? What a joke.
Parents will never win if there under microscope. Thank God mine are grown and doing well. I feel for the parents in this corrupt system. She is a gun banner!!!
"Nobody is perfect"...that's not a legitimate defense for someone who had broken the law. A county prosecutors in Michigan are elected...therefore, they are naturally going to want to serve their constituents. The victims' parents and the Oxford community overwhelmingly wanted these parents prosecuted - and for good reason: there was enough objective evidence against the Crumbleys to hold them guilty of involuntary manslaughter. The only reason you want to paint her as "overzealous" and "very political" is that she is not a member of your party - therefore, by definition, she must be inherently hyperpartisan and over-ambitious. She has said nothing about running for governor, so we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. What evidence is there to criminally charge anyone at the school? What criminal law did any of them break? So somehow, your "nobody is perfect" defense only applies to the parents, but not the school officials??
@@cmsmhp spoken like a true political party…
She has spoken in past about Governor. Freedom of speech you must have forgotten that law!
And I assure you I didn’t and wouldn’t vote for her!
You missed my point! Never said that was a defense! Just an opinion
@@Debutante775 I certainly agree...you spoke like true political party, alright. You're the one uzing the words "overzealous creature", "very political", and suggesting that this case is just a vehicle to get her elected governor.
What does "freedom of speech" have to do with anything here??? I said nothing that remotely suggested restricting your speech nor anyone else's speech. That's quite a head scratcher. I simply explained that she was doing what the local community wanted her to do, and had the objective evidence on her side.
LOL, really, you wouldn't vote for her?? Gee, you could have knocked me over with a feather! 🤣 I mean, you sounded sooo supportive of her up to that point. More evidence of basing your opinion of her solely on your politicial bias.
No, I think I got your point. "Nobody is perfect" may not not be your specific defense of the parents, but the third line of your original post makes it look like you don't think that the parents should have been prosecuted at all, while in the last line of your post, it appears that you think the school officials SHOULD have been charged. So it sounds like you're using "nobody is perfect" selectively here - using it to give cover for the parents, but not the school officials.
Alrighty you are more eloquent speaker than I. I have been on the fence with this case. I do believe this will set precedent.
As far as prosecutor I know some of her people. And I do not like her. Guilty? School and parents are responsible. Kids under the age of 18. However I do believe that teenagers can hide from the good parents as well!
Precedent meaning All parents could be found guilty.
@@Debutante775 Thank you, and I definitely realize that this is not an easy case. I don't want this leading to a flurry of prosecuting parents unfairly or unnecessarily in connection to with crimes their kids did, any more than you do or the next person. Yes, this does set a precedent, but that, in and of itself, is not a bad thing as long as we continue to use caution, and if more parents exercise responsible and reasonable care in their homes regarding firearms.
I don't know the prosecutor or live in Michigan, so I can't speak to her as a person. How her underlings behave might be a reflection on her. But she did teach English for a number of years, and I tend to highly admire and respect school teachers.
I'm glad at least that you think these parents are legally responsible. The school district is facing a lawsuit, and if they are found to have deviated from policy and not exercised enough reasonable care to prevent this, then I will be supportive of that litigation too. Ethan was very clever and hit a lot of things from both parents and officials, and I think that was a big reason he got LWOP.
No one even asked Ethan C how he got the pew pew.
He wrote in his journal how he got the gun however that part wasn’t allowed in either parents trial.
As if she’s going to admit to this being political 🙄 of course not 🤷♀️ AND how come charge just these parents now if not political 🤬! When Are they going to charge every parent from past shootings.
Peter, do you think the courts are just going to use this new precedent to punish parents of school shooters? Or will the courts turn their eye on parents of gang members that knew their kid was in a gang, owned an illegal gun, and did nothing to stop the subsequent violence?
My concern is that anytime a kid does something wrong - (no mass shooting of course!!) - but say they steal and wreck a car -- that the parents will also be arrested!!! I raised three kids who on a whole were good kids (Thank GOD!) - but I had one that went through a time where she became an expert liar and until I was forced to think otherwise - I believed her . . . and she was hanging with someone that wasn't who I thought they were -- (I was a semi-helicopter mom - but wanted my kids to know I trusted them too - hard balance some times)... So what happens when your teenager does do something that you are totally unaware of and ends up causing a problem and cops show up a your door to arrest the parents!!! Think about what doors this may have opened!! That's what I'm concerned about... If it is - I just pray that it is truly done on a case by case basis....
In this case . . . yes, appeared they knew this kid had issues and a gun was the wrong thing to buy him . . .
My other concern is this case - is this shooting was still so raw - that people wanted blood on anyone and everyone ... not good!
Agreed. Mother of four here and I homeschooled my children for many years. They are older now and trust me, I didn't know a lot of things about them or their friends. Believe me when I say my parents also had no clue what i was doing. Kids, teenagers, adults - everybody lies and nobody really knows what you are thinking.
These parents were probably neglectful - that's a different kind of charge and I think more appropriate.
I do feel this whole situation is unbelievably tragic. My last child is in public school now that I work. Her school is somewhat of a prison meant to protect them from outsiders. It's sad.
Unfortunately, this issue is more than just weapons as those have always been around. It's something else - which is certainly a much longer post.
Ethan was a manipulative liar!!
Less school shootings is METAL DETECTORS and she didn’t follow the proper evidence but Ethan is in jail and no one else did it but him!!
The demon seed was 15 years old. Really you think you know everything? Maybe if your a Hallmark family! Highly doubt. I raised 3! I did everything i could to monitor and the school has no responsibility? That is so wrong!
My kids grown and doing good!
@@PEBBLEZ21this is why I keep asking what law was actually broken! InvoluntaryManslaughter for them really? There are so many absolutely horrible parents out there that would make the Crumbleys look like the Waltons! Case in point OH vs Candelaro! I feel strongly that this was a political grab. And she has been on every news outlet in the last three days soaking up her victory lap!
She’s just not showing her hand.
What is the max?
15 years for the parents
@@wandabown7961Could be 60 if the sentences run consecutively.
@@daerdfotuoerew4394let’s hope that’s what they get…..
@@daerdfotuoerew4394I highly doubt that they will get consecutive sentences. I believe they will all run concurrently together.