10 Signs of a Wife with Vulnerable Narcissistic Traits
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- Опубліковано 10 гру 2019
- This video answers the question: Can I analyze the characteristics of a wife with vulnerable narcissistic traits?
Narcissism:
There are two types of narcissism: With grandiose narcissism we see characteristics like being extroverted, socially bold, self-confident, having a superficial charm, being resistant to criticism, and being callous and unemotional. Vulnerable narcissism is characterized by shame, anger, aggression, hypersensitivity, a tendency to be introverted, defensive, avoidant, anxious, depressed, socially awkward, and shy.
Miller, J., Gentile, B., Wilson, L., & Campbell, W. K. (2013). Grandiose and Vulnerable Narcissism and the DSM-5 Pathological Personality Trait Model. Journal of Personality Assessment, 95(3), 284-290. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Neufeld, D. C., & Johnson, E. A. (2016). Burning with envy? Dispositional and situational influences on envy in grandiose and vulnerable narcissism. Journal of Personality, 84(5), 685-696. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Rohmann, E., Neumann, E., Herner, M. J., & Bierhoff, H.-W. (2012). Grandiose and vulnerable narcissism: Self-construal, attachment, and love in romantic relationships. European Psychologist, 17(4), 279-290. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Kealy, D., & Rasmussen, B. (2012). Veiled and Vulnerable: The Other Side of Grandiose Narcissism. Clinical Social Work Journal, 40(3), 356-365. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Derry, K. L., Ohan, J. L., & Bayliss, D. M. (2019). Toward understanding and measuring grandiose and vulnerable narcissism within trait personality models. European Journal of Psychological Assessment, 35(4), 498-511. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Mechanic, K., & Barry, C. christopher. barry@usm. ed. (2015). Adolescent Grandiose and Vulnerable Narcissism: Associations with Perceived Parenting Practices. Journal of Child & Family Studies, 24(5), 1510-1518. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Miller, J. D., Lynam, D. R., Vize, C., Crowe, M., Sleep, C., Maples, K. J. L., … Campbell, W. K. (2018). Vulnerable narcissism is (mostly) a disorder of neuroticism. Journal of Personality, 86(2), 186-199. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Sandage, S. J., Jankowski, P. J., Bissonette, C. D., & Paine, D. R. (2017). Vulnerable narcissism, forgiveness, humility, and depression: Mediator effects for differentiation of self. Psychoanalytic Psychology, 34(3), 300-310. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
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Just celebrated our 21st anniversary 2 days ago. It was not until the last 9 months that I started to realize she is never happy. Every day is the same as the one before. Realizing she was not CAPABLE of being happy no matter what I did for her was devastating. I have sacrificed years with family and friends to give her what she claimed would make her happy only for it to all be a waste of time. Up until my epiphany, I always blamed myself for ruining her life, making her miserable, screwing everything up, never quite doing things the way I should have for her or generally falling short of her expectations.
She has disparaged all of my past friendships. my family is kept away. I working ungodly hours to try to support our family (I'm the only who has worked throughout our marriage) so I have a tenuous relationship with our 4 kids. If I do see things they are doing wrong and call them out, it erupts into an argument between my wife and I.
I have spent years trying to figure out what was wrong with me and genuinely believing I was at fault. It was so frustrating trying to tear myself apart to figure out why I wasn't GETTING IT.
Her narcissistic roots are generational. her grandmother was that way. Her mother is that way. She is that way. my youngest daughter is that way.
I have poured myself out since I was 19 years old to make her life better only to find out it could not be done. The only consolation is that at least I know what I'm dealing with and will stop internalizing her blame.
Some examples of her manipulation tactics:
1. Sarcastically taking blame for "everything" rather than genuinely accepting that she has done anything wrong.
2. I'm sorry YOU feel that way.
3. Siding with my kids and even her mother against me.
4. She diminishes and even mocks my interests, ideas and beliefs especially when we are arguing. She is likely to ridicule them and pour out contempt that I even think they have any real value.
5. She is very loving and affectionate when we are by ourselves but as soon as someone else is around (namely her mother since my wife has no friends either), I might as well not even be around unless she needs me to do something for her (which tends to be 80% of our conversations).
Having no one to even talk to about this has helped maintain her hold on me so the isolation tactic has been effective. I mean look at me, I'm venting a lifetime of frustration to strangers on a 2 year old UA-cam video just because I finally found someone who could define articulate why I have been feeling this way.
I feel your pain. I am in a six year relationship with a covert but have no kids. I am trying to exit but it is not easy as I have don't have many friends anymore and we live together. I only realised once we moved in together 2 years ago. I keep on thinking it will change but I know deep down it won't she is to self centred to change.
Praying for both of you. The “never enough” status is a trap set with a bait of future love.
Same here dear frend!!
Been in exactly the same type of situation for 25 years. She wasn't always this way. Not that I remember. She used the same tactics you described. Her mother was very much in the picture and she was a negative and pessimistic personality to be sure. She would disparage me openly in front of my kids. She helped to isolate my children and she helped to alienate them from me. All while living in my home with us. I haven't seen my dogs, kids or the inside of my home in 7 years. This is becoming epidemic. Your definitely not alone. Be grateful you have your life and your freedom and try to move on. I've been researching this topic for 7 years. In those 7 years I've met men that have not only been alienated from their kids and lost everything they worked their whole lives for but also lost their freedom due to false accusations of violence. One guy I talked to did 4 years in state prison and later took his own life.
My wife had an affair the entire time we were together and I just found out. She used me like a tool. She also accused me of violence that I did not commit. Stuck in jail I had to take a plea deal to get out of jail. Worst mistake of my life. Get away. Stay away. Don't look back. She won't change. But she will change you. Sounds like she already has. You can find yourself again. It's difficult. But you can. Good luck.
@@maragirl1658 yeah...I understand that's all you can do. I really do. But how long before that situation becomes so frustrating and heartbreaking for you that it begins to change your character? How long before it gets you caught up in it and you suffer consequences? I don't think we should stand by and watch the downward spiral. Because it affects and infects every person it comes into contact with. It needs to be called out and treated. This behavior has permeated our society at every level and it's thriving. I think it's wrong. But I do realize you cannot make people change. You should be able to kick their ass when they take a piece of your life or your heart or whatever. Eye for an eye. They are all cowards and bully's and they keep winning and getting away with it and their numbers have increased exponentially. Because they didn't get their punch in the face or the gut when they should have. They haven't ever taken their lumps. And they are deathly afraid of it and avoid accountability like the plague. This problem is not going to go away or resolve itself. They are going to ruin us all. Suck us dry. It's just my opinion. I'm sure going around punching people in the mouth wouldn't help either. It might make me feel better tho. 😂🎯
I married one - and never saw it for over 15 years - the mask slips completely off - she ruined my life - took my son - pushed me to the point of suicide - I have nothing but hatred for this person (but still want to love them) - PLEASE protect yourself - it could be your life at stake more than you know!
U know all about these traumatized children (mother or father wounds)..they seduce u with charm & sex ...then your trapped...and since they have this Jezebel spirit and listen to demons...they know how hurt you...in a deeeeep,way ....and pull u back in with sweetness ..niceness..trama bonded...40 years for me before I woke up...and now, still with her, because I'm undone...sick and broke....praying for deliverance for me & her
How are you doing a year later? Keeping busy?
My daughter is in the process of divorcing a vulnerable narcissist. To Dan.....please hang in there. I know what you mean when you say she ruined your life. I warned my daughter not to marry the creep who relentlessly pursued and even stalked her. He has ruined ALL of our lives. For innocent children have their lives in tormoil.
@@Carbon_Fiber
That's just not true at all. You are a man who doesn't have intimate partner relationships with men so how the heck would you know?
Statistically there are higher rates of diagnosed narcissistic personality disorder amongst men than women even though culturally the traits are more acceptable in men than in women.
Women are more vulnerable to intimate partner intimidation and violence but violence is often not necessary as the threat will do. Women are still often brought up in a way which makes us more likely to take a back seat to men and end up with more of the household or childcare work, on top of working a full time job.
You may think you've not come across women who are not narcissistic but you may just never have been attracted to those women because your attachment style was informed by a childhood relationship with a narcissist.
It is in forgiveness that we are forgiven
God bless you
1. The wife is highly neurotic 1:49
2. wife had a history of inconsistent discipline 4:51
3. wife is highly manipulative 6:31
4. wife's self-esteem is contingent upon others - including the husband 7:19
5. the wife is emotionally distant 8:09
6. The wife appears to be shaken to her core when criticized by the husband 9:53
7. the wife has difficulty maintaining a positive self-image 11:15
8. the wife's insight is compromised 13:22
9. the wife puts the phrase taking something personally into an entirely new perspective 14:22
10. envy is converted into shadenfreude 15:31
Thanks! I was looking for this and found you💜 thanks for the effort🙏🏽 God bless you!
Thanks.....I knew my friend has this...sad for husband & daughter
I was married to a covert narcissist for 20 years, and just about everything in your video matches her.
Initially I had no idea, I am into tech and science so psychology for me was in the next multiverse.
And yes, according to her I was always at fault, I was never good enough, I was obese when I was just overweight, I was 'a carcass' and I do 3km ocean swims, I would hardly spend any money on myself and yet she would call me a financial abuser, I would spent almost every evening renovating the house for the family and she would tell it meant nothing because she could just get any handyman to do it, and more...
She left, and from the day after I felt a weight had fallen off my back!
Watching videos like yours makes me realise I was not crazy, or imagining things, so many thanks for this eye opening video!
@@josephvaz1260 You my brother, are not alone... 21 in and her mask came of too!!!!!!!
Now working on putting my BRAIN back together !!!!!!!
@@josephvaz1260 such a pity, you sound like a great familyman and husband.
I hope you can find healing on your path...
Greetings from the Netherlands
My ex girlfriend was a vulnerable narcissist. There is no decision in my entire 30 years of living on this planet that I'm more happy about than that one when I decided to break up with her. It was the start of my new self improvement journey.
I wish i can do it ... i need a help from someone. I am depleting day after day.
@@arlilani If you think you need help from someone you should consider going to a therapist who's specialized in narcissism, or talk about it with a real good friend.
@@arlilani I felt exactly the same as you. I ended up cutting her narcissistic supply off and she left me.
I didn't relaise that I had cut off her supply at the time but after some research and discussions I've had with a therapist it seems I did and it was the right thing to do.
Go and chat with a therapist I wanted to for months before the end of my relationship but at the time no single event was 'bad enough' to justify going and now realise that if I was feeling that way about my partner and already doing the research on UA-cam that IS justification for going to therapy.
Good luck out there.
@@arlilani The starting stage is hardest, **ignore the urge of staying with them**, take some distance of few weeks or months, change your atmosphere, you will feel better you can also check videos of Dr. Ramani ,Put your emotional stability your first priority. Last thing to say "Never Give Up".
Yes yes yes to this comment. I’m 31 and going through a separation right now. Finding out this information is beyond mind blowing. Here’s to this next stage in our journey.
I've watched so many videos on narcissistic behavior lately and my whole 6 year marriage makes sense now.
Watch patrice o'neal too
@@thomas-ud1fs is he a narc or a victim ?
@@HawkFightTalk hes a comedian who died a decade ago and explained alot about basic female behavior.
Yeah then get out while you can
@Tony Duncan yes, I've had an argument that we need help, therapy, something. She says she doesn't want to go back to taking pills... idk man
My son studied, got a Bachelor’s in law enforcement, an MBA and became an officer- he works a 12 hour day, comes home and cleans, cooks, takes the dog out and puts the toddlers to bed , reads to them but he is the „loser“ according to his wife. She drove a teenager boyfriend to suicide. My accomplished son is aware that he might be in serious danger and told me if anything should happen we should ask police to look into it. What a loveless way to live.
I lived it too.
Best of luck to him, gonna need it. A loosing indever.
Get him to see a therapist!!! God bless!!
Why is he staying? He needs to document what is happening and file for divorce and custody of the children
@@lauraescayg7516 --The courts will never side with the father because the courts won't recognize narcissistic personality as a danger. The court will mandate both spousal and child support. He will then be out of the house, will have his wages garnished 50% and then being absent from home, he will be unable to assist/protect his own children from their self absorbed mother. That is why is he staying; he knows how the system works.
The scariest T-shirt I ever saw on a mother at school: "If Momma ain't happy, then no one is happy."
Yeah! People would laugh at that saying as if it was funny or smart. It seemed to scary and ugly to me. Like happiness in there family was contingent on one person's manic emotional state.
I thought of it as "Mommas not going to feel like taking care of everyone else if she is not taken care of/caring for herself" but ....yeah I can see the scary in it too from a mental health standpoint
@@adamv4951 Perhaps.
@@adamv4951 only from women.
@@acolley2891shhh
My mum in a nutshell, so damaging to everyone around her. Very enlightening video Dr. Grande, thank you for taking the time.
Yes. My dad recently passed and my mom is a vulnerable narc. I went no contact with her afterwards. This is so accurate to their relation and explains so much
You & I have the same mom.
@@lar8200 My Mum is a v narc and may Dad passed 3 years ago. (he is finally at peace after a life time of my Mum) I have become the person she spews venom at now. I know I have 'problems' caused by her as well as witnessing the day to day life of my Mum and Dad. I'm 50 now , and still can't get over it :(
I thought my mom was just a straight up narcissist... Then the next video was this and wow! It's like an arrow in my heart because it is so accurate.
My mom also was super inconsistent never knew what action was going to get what response. Chaos
My mum too, it seems like there are a lot of mum's like that
Exactly my beloved ex-wife.
Such a beautiful spirit twisted like a pretzel by demons.
I love her and I know she carries a deadly evil. I can’t help her. And it is ever between her and God.
Like how say that
40 years with my covert narsicist Jezebel wife.. one year awake...oh the pain...its goes from a bad dream to a nightmare (once u wake up) now i understand why I stayed so long...childhood trauma of unworthiness...and more ...this relationship physically, emotionally, spiritually and financially smashed me ...praying for a way out..still with her...would love to campare notes sometime if possible..
If it makes you feel any better, I'm an atheist, and I married the wrong woman too.
@@MultiCappie no not really...but thanks for trying...i think
I feel the exact same about my ex. You are not alone!
Seriously, I am mind blown!! My mother is a narcissist and he was spot on when it came to describing her and NOW he is seriously on point when it comes to me. I am a narcissist. I just realized 1 year ago that I did not want to be this person anymore and I am on my way to changing myself for the better. I wish he had videos on how to not be a narcissist.
I’m in the same boat ❤️ it’s hard, but I’ve been fighting it for about 3 years since I realized/accepted that I’m a vulnerable narcissist. I’ve found that cultivating genuine intimacy is HUGE in recovering, because it puts you on the same level as the other person in your mind and allows you to feel more genuine empathy for them. So for me, opening up about being a narc to a therapist and to my boyfriend have been huge since now when they “accept me”/“love me”, I believe them fully and I also can love them more. And I’m more able to see my real self because they help me clarify my self image when I ask them about it. It’s SO hard, but it’s worth it ❤️
@@raylaughlan5324 thank you for sharing that.
Social contagion is a sad twist of fate. I'm in a similar situation, and as Ray above mentions, truly authentic relationships are among the best ways of bringing yourself out of vulnerable narcissism.
Hope you're improving in this endeavour.
Narcissists have no insight, you have insight so you're well on your way. I think it's the fact we emulate behaviours not that at out core we are truly narcissistic, if we were we wouldn't be here wouldn't be questioning this and wouldn't have insight. I developed rages based on n.father. I was young but it's not the true me, I'm highly empathetic and sensitive. I don't abushers to bolster my ego or self esteem or have a false self. We just learnt ways of being but that's not out core. If it's a core trait it never changes even with information. At my core is empathy, I think it's genetics and environment that shapes ppl 🙋🙋
@@bereal6590 I think it's a 'fawning' technique, to survive with a narc. Like the Stockholm syndrome.
narcissism just seems like a lot of work. easier to just be an honest person.
we're good, polite, honest people
@@virces6563 a grain of sand honest and a heap of deceit.
I disagree! It's a lot more difficult to be an honest person. E.g. honest with one's self, and not constantly blame, project, and deflect. Being honest means having humility, and taking responsibility for own's own mistakes and shortcomings. I think this takes much more candor and self-awareness, and is thus why many people don't or can't do it. Personally, I don't know how to be anyone other than myself, and I have a strong sense of conviction between right and wrong. I'm not a religious person, or was raised that way. But for some reason ever since I was very young, I've stood up for he kids that were picked on, or spoke back to the teacher who wasn't been fair or nice to myself or other students. I guess I'm just an empath, which I always say is the greatest blessing and curse. I often look back at my life and feel that things would have been so much easier if I weren't one. But I'm proud to be a sensitive and vulnerable human being, and I wear my humanity proudly on my sleeve!
@@misse7154 well, i truly do not have a problem being myself, being humble and admitting when I am wrong or could do better. i am always self checking to see how I can do better. I am honest to a fault possibly.
@@conniethingstad1070 I'm curious to know what you mean by "honest to a fault"? Recently I've been giving a lot of thought to the concept of honesty because I've dealt with a lot of deception in my life. I think there are the lies we tell ourselves and then the lies we tell other people.
Shadenfrude !
That’s why my narcissistic ex and her narcissistic daughter always took such pleasure, making fun of and laughing at me, any time I made even an insignificant error!
Thank you!!!!
oh boy my ex was like that... I tried so hard all the time. walking on eggshells.
Oh boy is this ringing the bells. So glad I am not in that relationship any more.
Thank you for these insights, Dr.Grande. There's so much focus on grandiose narcissism that vulnerable narcissism is often left by the wayside.
I saw this in May 2022. It was the biggest lightbulb moment I have ever had. It explained all the strange weird and hyper frustrating stuff I lived with for years. Thanks Todd, it put the wheels of disconnect and self awareness needed to get away from the mother of my children. I now don’t feel like I’m going insane anymore.
Well it's now middle of June 2022. I hope you are doing better. Hey we're all friggin crazy but we're not always all nuts. It's that fine line between some good Tom Petty songs and some not good Tom Petty songs. And we know there is no such thing as a bad Tom Petty song -- so see -+ you are doing OK. Saving grace. Take care of yourself though p. seriously.n please be safe. We need you. Gail in Central Florida June 13, 2022
They all got exposed after covid. It’s call victory over the fruit of evil. Stay strong and believe in yourself. GOD loves you, your kids need you. Stay strong, calm and peaceful, don’t react to their attacks. You’re always protected. I know exactly what you are talking about, my case with the narcissist was like walking through hell. Believe me, we will be on top at the end. Peace man!
Well, you described my disastrous 8 year marriage to a T! I have never been through something so mind blowing and destructive in my life! We have been separated/divorced for 2 years now and it literally took me about a year and a half to start feeling like myself again. And when you described manipulation, I thought and still think my ex is the master of manipulation! I cannot begin to tell you just how caustic our relationship was! I literally shut down and stopped all interaction with her because I knew what would come of it! I lost all confidence in myself and during our last 2 years of marriage, I would literally come home, go to the bedroom and do everything I could to avoid her. She had 3 children from prior marriages and I loved all 3 as if they were my own. And it killed me to see the mental abuse she would put them through. And several times she would physically abuse them. And all 3 were above 18 years old! The hold she had over them was scary to witness and my heart leapt out to them for the cruelty she enacted on them. When we finally separated, it was if I was reborn. I knew if I had stayed, it would have been the death of me! The mental trauma and anguish I went through has soured me towards wanting to date again. I would love nothing more than to find my soulmate. But after everything I was put through, I see red flags with practically every single woman I talk with. I’m sure that they are probably fine ladies but the thought of making another mistake and finding another nutcase prevents me from attempting to take the next step. And many times I find myself wondering if I will ever be happy and whole again? Thank you doc! Listening to this helps me understand how right I was for leaving.
Fight for yourself, go to a therapy❤. Out of narcissistic relationship with men and people - they didn’t want to settle down with family and kids, they were constantly chasing other options. I was never enough for them. Trying to meet new friends and the one to settle down with, but so many of them are projecting their past experience onto me and are afraid of commitment at all. I am left alone in cold.
Best bet is 0 contact. If u are looking for some kind of snow white out here in the real world, best of luck, don't waste your time. All u are going to find is me me me mine, and what I can extract from you. By nature I am not a self centered, greedy person, but seeing I'm a product of my environment, I'm just like everyone else now.
You pick a crazy that suits you best brother. May as well be a woman that's very attractive other wise you really ain't getting anything out of it
@@ryannaylor2905 I had a very attractive crazy, and kicked her to the curb w no thought given. Crazy is not cute, it's draining.
Schadenfreude takes the place of envy?? WOW, Dr! That’s some useful insight.
Mind blown 😳
Naw. There are people in my circle of trust who've done me wrong or have been indifferent to my struggles and pain, that I know they can only understand when the same is done unto them, but not necessarily by me.
I feel no regret with my satisfaction.
@@NickNicometi You just proved the point lmao
People keep score of remarkable, useless things…
This is why there is a parable of the unjust steward, a man who knew to cancel debts of others in order to free himself.
If you hold others to account, you yourself are in bondage.
After watching these videos I’m starting to think almost every other person is narcissistic, at least around my parts. Holidays are fun. yaaaay! 😏
@Life is a Journey though break. Do you think its related to your work or location?
@Life is a Journey That’s awesome. I’m not in the position to remove people from my life; but I’m trying to establish solid boundaries.
@Dirk Jensen sorry. don’t mean to sound rude. I’m not comfortable answering that particular question.
I live in the Mecca of narcissists. But I also come across empaths everyday. To me, these folks stand out even more, so when I come across them I try to hold onto them because they are few!
@M Z I agree that academia is full of narcissists, but I've also encountered many in my own career. For some reason, dealing with narcissists have been a completely different situation in my professional life than my personal life. It's much easier to impose and enforce boundaries with colleagues. However, it's so much more complicated when it's with your own family!
Thanks, u are a very good personality disorder explainer. I’m a psychiatric nurse for last thirty years. My father is a vulnerable narcissist I do believe. Listening to your lectures, I have gained much self awareness and confidence. I am grateful 💛
Apparently your profession does not include free therapy or even friendly insights from your coworkers/employers.
No insult intended if it sounds that way. I suppose keeping work and home life is the professional way.
I guess there isn't much one can do about it anyway, when it's another person. Except gain clarity and understanding that the problem isn't you.
It's good to know the behavior has specific signs.
There would be much less misery in n the world if these things were taught in high school.
In order to avoid relationships with them.
In my marriage, my wife's attitude about the relationship was more in line with a grandiose narcissist. She never showed any interest in establishing a close meaningful bond between us and she sabotaged my attempts to draw us closer.
I grew up with a narcissistic mother. I don’t want to be anything like her... however, this video definitely highlights some areas where I’m just like her with my husband. It’s hard to hear, but It seems I should seek help. I don’t want to be this way or think this way.
@ohmyfefe My husband and his family are so carefree and loving. Since I didn’t grow up this way, it’s so hard to know what I should be doing as a wife. I’ve learned so much from his parents but a lot more from mine.. I was actually pretty shocked his dad has never talked bad about any of his kids even when they were in the wrong. It blew my mind.
EXCELLENT! As I've witnessed, heavy on the manipulation and passive aggression. Childlike expectations of partner's ability to read her mind and cater to needs, and tantrums when unmet. Silent treatment/avoidance also a big part, often when sparked by misperception (erroneously perceived insult).
Great material, and practical resource for understanding, and thence all positives that flow therefrom.
Thanks, Doctor Grande. Big Help!!!
That sounds like Enmeshment. When the person expects you to match their emotional state. Or help regulate their emotions for them. Or be their venting outlet. Or all 4 at the same time!
They're mad, you have to be mad too. Your happy but they are'nt? Uh oh, they wont like that! How dare you be a seperate individual with your own internal reality. 😔
@@eps4560 my spouse... Have to protect his ego, have to validate all his emotions and experience them with him.
As for my ex-wife, the childhood "inconsistent discipline" took the form of her BPD Mom loving her at times, and screaming and throwing things at other times without a known reason. That loved-right-now, then scared-and-threatened the next out of no where, was probably the single biggest issue that took my ex-wife from being mostly kind to me, to our ultimate demise when marriage trials came up and she turned vile just as you explained. I knew why she did the things she did as a psych major, but had I known that vulnerable narcissism existed, I wouldn't have let myself or the kids get emotionally abused, or let my loving empath-self get bullied. It's heartbreaking for everyone. Abuse just sucks. It's awful for everyone; and that includes the abuser. Yes, I can still see the girl I loved through all the hate. She's just buried in this. Thank you for defining this (again), in another one of your great videos on this subject! It blesses me, and will bless my kids as they grow up.
I wish my Dad had known of it and could have saved himself... he loved and cared too much and suffered too much for a mirage. Sometimes life brings lessons the hard way.
Such a sad situation! Thank you for sharing your story and insight.
Sad indeed, i had a counselor recently ask me if it would have made difference if i knew what was going on ? I told the moron bloody right it would have ! I would not have been so confused and angry ! And my kids would not have had to see me that way ! Take care brother 🤝
Thank you for sharing, it means so much. I'm 13 years in this marriage and figured out a few years back she was a narcissist as, things just didn't make sense nor add up, I just didn't know what type. Now I know, in specific and in detail what she really is...with her, adversity is oppertunity and around every corner.
I loved this comment. I also see the beautiful person inside the narcissists in my life. I wish they could heal too.
Ask them to do something for you. Something small. Something you would do for them with no hesitation.
If they are narcissistic or otherwise toxic, it will ALWAYS go at least 1 of 4 ways (though sometimes these reactions may compound):
1. They will act as though they didn’t hear you
Depending on how long you’ve been in the relationship, you may ask again. If it’s been long enough, you’re likely to drop the request right then and there.
2. They will promise to do it, but never follow through
If you ask again or remind them, they will usually have some kind of excuse. In these cases, they will still never actually fulfill their promise. Their excuse is not a reason for lagging, it is the reason they should be absolved from all expectation whatsoever. Often this excuse will be meaningless or an outright lie.
If you don’t buy their excuse, and tell them so, you will experience the wonderful segue into reaction 3:
3. An argument will ensue
The argument will be your fault. It could be a small back and forth contending against your request, or it might quickly devolve into them screaming at you. You never know which it will be. They might even say outright that you should never ask or expect anything from them. Usually they will express that you are asking too much, hurting them in some way (financially, emotionally, insulting them, etc), or attack your character.
The argument will only end when you relinquish your request + apologize, or start ignoring them completely. If you can ignore them long enough, they may apologize to you. However, the conflict will never feel truly resolved.
At this juncture they may actually end up giving you what you asked for. Often this does require you admitting that you don’t really need it, or that you would be fine with what they suggested instead. This leads us to reaction 4:
4. They give you what you asked for, BUT
There is ALWAYS a catch. It might be small. They show up late with no apology. They buy you what you wanted, but it’s the wrong color, model, brand, etc. They take you where you wanted to go, but pressure you the whole time you’re getting ready because you’re going to be sooo late. Then they want to leave early anyway.
It might be worse. They do it out of anger, and make a big display out of it to scare/hurt you. They hold it over your head until you do something for them first. Or, later on, they use it against you. “I did x for you, so you should do y for me.” No matter what, you never actually feel fulfilled, happy, or loved when they do something for you. Somehow, even from the getgo, there was this deep-seated feeling of guilt and fear, this sense that the “special” things they were doing for you weren’t so special at all. Eventually, you become afraid to ask for anything. You’ve been conditioned to believe you deserve nothing. Ironically, or not, the less demands you make, the worse you will be treated. Moreover, Catching a cheating spouse might be difficult, and knowing what local laws say you can and cannot do might be even more difficult. To simplify the process, consider hiring a private investigator to do the sleuthing for you I genuinely appreciate how incredible you are and your work! Thank you for a job well done *Metaspyhub@gmail. com* ,,
My mom is a covert narcissist and it took me 30 years to realize it… She is a master manipulator who uses guilt trips and gas lighting. A conundrum of insecurities while thinking she’s better than the rest. Narcissist moms seem to favour their sons over daughters which also affected me. Aging is extremely hard for these people as well as so much is put in the exterior, which is causing her mask to slip even more these days. Anything can be perceived as an insult by them and you’ll be given the silent treatment with passive aggressive attitude for days never realizing what you did wrong. These people are dangerous and should be kept at arms length.
Sounds like my mum… and I was the black sheep of the family trying to protect my codependent dad…
@@elin_8400 my mom also. My dad i am seeing is a narc, not just a codependent as i previously thought.
@@elin_8400Your Dad should have protected you. I'm also the black sheep, my brother was the golden child.
My son married a woman that fits every single point Dr Grande mentions. She managed to drag him to the altar when he returned from Afghanistan. She is so mean to him but has him by the balls because she has 2 kids who he adores and would never want to take them away from their mother
My ex-wife is a covert narcissist, and after 14 years, she asked me for a divorce, and began to show all these characteristic (though truth be told she had already exhibited some of them throughout, I only dismissed it thinking it was expected selfishness and attention dependence due to her being a single child). The nine months that followed her unexpected and callous announcement were without question a living hell that she sadistically and unnecessarily put me through.
I thank GOD for not only getting me out of their so quickly, but for allowing me to move on with my life.
@@maafg4435 I agree.
The fact is, I didn't even have a problem with her "not loving me anymore" or in "wanting a divorce" even though both are not consistent to the Judeo-Christian values you claimed she had also, which is why I even married her, because she claimed that she held the institution of marriage as sacred as I. Which did not turn out to be the case.
Now, don't get me wrong. I am not claiming that it would not have hurt me--sure, but I am a reasonable and understanding man--at least I endeavor to be. I consider every perspective, not just my own. So, it was not that she ended our marriage, but HOW she ended it that bothered me, and I believe was not necessary.
I mean, had she not tried to gaslight me and make me out to be the "bad guy" to all our family and friends, it would not have been as painful as it was.
There was nothing worse than to have family (my sisters, and mostly of her side of the family) and friends (many the ones I met through her) turned on me on a dime--not even wanting to hear my side--they all took her side and judged me a "monster" "toxic" and "master manipulator."
Even before I knew what was going on, and reached out to them to help us--they either attacked me, or ignored (blocked) me. I had never felt so isolated and defeated in my life. ONLY GOD was with me.
And I thank GOD--and not figuratively either--for helping me during those seven months, especially on the night last year when in her crazed-out state, she had her cousin called the police on me (domestic disturbance call) while I slept.
I mean it, It was ONLY by the grace of GOD that the police did not side with her (given the show she and her cousin made that caused them to greet me with guns drawn), but they quickly saw through her and her cousin's lies (I did not realize to what extent until I obtained both the 911 call, and police cam (4) videos. So, instead of arresting me, and forcing me out of our home--as my ex-wife and her cousin (both narcissist) wanted them to do, the police told her to get somethings and find somewhere else to stay "until things cooled down." That was the last night my ex-wife stayed in our house until I moved on five months later.
Wow. This was my mom. When she played the victim, she became a martyr. She was very good at telling if someone was lying or not. She was extremely entitled. She was the Queen Bee of the household. The staunch Matriarch that could not be disobeyed. When one of us 5 kids disobeyed her, that sibling was ostracized, and made to feel lower than dirt. She exerted so much control over everything, everyone in the family, except my father, whom I speculate was a Grandiose Narcissist.
I honestly don't know how I escaped becoming a Narcissist myself! I think I may have some traits, but I can feel compassion and empathy for others. And I am more introspective than most. Still, I worry...
Ha, as I read this comment I had to check the name to make sure it wasn't one of my siblings. very similar scenario when I was growing up. I was confused at the overall attention and admiration she got from everyone. Because of how cruel and cold she could be. but because she was always helping others and was available to others, everyone gravitated towards her. She had a lot of good, but also flipped the switch so easily.
Take heart. It is said that if you are worried that you are a narcissist, you are not a narcissist. After 15 years with somebody who sounds very much like with this video describes and also has some borderline traits, I can assure you that I was accused of being a narcissist. I had myself tested. I mean, it’s horrifying, isn’t it? You don’t want to be like that. So, you want to get yourself tested so that you can start receiving some kind of therapy to make you stop being a narcissist. well, anyway, my psychologist actually laughed when I asked her if she thought I was a narcissist. Apparently, they are unable to even contemplate the possibility that they might be a narcissist.
This is a highly accurate description of a female vulnerable narcissist. Unfortunately, I have to base that on experience. I was married to one and we had a child together. Here is a illuminating incident: when our baby was born, maternal grandmother wanted to fly out to see her grandson. I told my (then) wife that she'd have to tell her mother to not smoke in the house. This was difficult for her to do, but she did it. Grandmother would sit on the porch and smoke would roll into the house. Wife said she'd tell her mom not to smoke on the porch. and after much hand-wringing, she told her. Grandmother pouted and went out front and sat on the curb smoking, thinking she'd be embarrassing us in the eyes of our neighbors. She pouted and was cold the rest of her stay. It was an awful thing to do to her daughter and to me and the baby. There was an example of inter-generational transmission of personality disorder. My son's mother spent the entirety of his youth attempting to destroy my relationship with my son. It was a terrible, terrible experience. Her mother of course supported her in that effort.
Kevin I'm sorry you too feel the pain caused by interference with your relationship with your child.
It doesn't get any easier when they've got into their 30's and your wife turns your grown daughter against you. Sadly our daughter gaslights me just like her mother does.
I think I can resonate with the comment you left.
It is insidious this thing called narcissism.
Dr. Grande is well informed and it requires the ability to stand back and look from all sides and blend the snapshots into a complete picture of the disorder.
Best Wishes
May your journey be easy.
Decoy 263 Yes, now I know these cases pretty well. Sorry this has happened to you and your daughter. That has got to be devastating. I told my son, 'She's trying to make you into one and you don't realize it.' Now we have a great relationship. He is a good young man: honest and hard working. He is able now to get perspective. I cut his mother out completely when he was in his first year of university.
@@kevinhornbuckle I am pleased to hear that your son has a fighting chance to survive and thrive in a normal sane way.
Best Wishes for many grandchildren to spoil.
I'm interested in some more children since my daughter would likely be more forthcoming with them if she's still in a blanket of self pity from the same place.
People are dying of starvation why not just tell her yourself and grow a pair? This is what’s wrong with men atm they are scared of everything and are mentally sick when they should just take charge. I’m not caring or looking big but we have the easiest way of life in all
Of time and your moaning about smoking do you realise how selfish that is???
@kevin Hornbuckle I'm just starting my battle now Kevin. My sons mother kicked me out, gaslit me then a smear campaign started. I havent seen my newborn in 9 months and and persuing legal action just to see him. I just hope that I can have a relationship with him one day soon. Did your exes lies about you to your son sink in? And did you have to somehow undo those lies, Or were you able to offer him truth and love that somehow overcame them - and helped him to see reality?
This was a real trip to listen to. I recently broke up with a girlfriend of about five years, and it was insane to think to myself “yep, yep, yep, yep,” as you listed the characteristics. She fulfills almost all of these criterion. She used to completely shut down on my and emotionally close off, and when I attempted to help or understand, she expected me to automatically do so without her having to explain anything.
how many times did she say "if you love someone, you do not need to be told what they need, you will KNOW" and when I would say "huh, what I always heard in the Program and in therapy was 'nobody is a mind reader'. So, please, just tell me how you feel, what you think, and what you want." then she would go over the same complaint for the 12th time about some thoughtless thing I said or did that hurt her feelings, that I apologized for 12 times, and explained my point of view, which she never understood or remembered, and ask/tell me "I thought you said I should tell you how I feel, what I think, and what I want ?! I guess you aren't interested, it's not important to you."
@@myotherusername9224 they expect us to read their minds and feel what they feel. But they have zero interst in what we feel or think. My ex could talk for 1-2 hours about her obsession, but became anoyd/irritated and angry when i talk about my interst for 10 minutes 😂.
Their lack of empathy is realy mindbogling and disgusting 🤯.
Looking back at it. It all seems insane. They are so cruel. They talk about love and care, but gives nothing in return. Simple things like enjoying a dinner or taking a walk is impossible for the narcissist.
They are just a waste of time
I'm overwhelmed. Once again you have given clarity to a diagnosis and a word that I believe is overused in our society. I've never heard a professional explain it with such clarity. After going through an insane childhood, witnessing my closest ally, my bother, comitt suicide because of narcissistic abuse. My mother is extremely abusive. In all aspects. The emotional abuse was torture. At least when we got hit with something we understood what happened. The abuse from a narcissist is truly unimaginable. I watched these Dynamics play out between my mom and dad. My dad gave up on his life , got sick & passed away. Knowing my mother was neurotic was a given in our family. I wholeheartedly believe children need to know that it's not their fault it can make all the difference in saving a life. My brother needed to know. It wasn't his fault. When you grow up and that type of atmosphere you are taught it's your fault.
I'm so very sorry for your losses. Hope you are in a better place now.
@@reelmermaid8844 Thank you. I am grateful for people that show they are good. It is a gift to see good and that compassion exists it is exactly what helps heal the hurt. It makes it possible to see the light that helps getting through the dark moments . Seeing kindness does exist and it is possible to break the cycle to really change. Thank you!
💡wow! My therapist suggested I was living with a narcissistic wife, but I wouldn’t accept that, but you have nailed it! She is not Grandiose, but vulnerable, which totally makes sense. Thank You!!!!!
In my marriage it was always my fault, yet at the same time there was nothing I could do to fix it either.
Thank you so much for finally someone talking and explaining vulnerable (covert) narcissism in-depth, with examples and what is actually happening in the core of the narcissistic personality.
Vulnerable is so much hard to detected and so much dangerous and no one is talking about it.
Grandiose I can spot from 10 mountains, but vulnerable can be everyone with a little or much of introversion and more emotional.
Please do more on vulnerable with exact everyday examples and not only in romantic relationships but in different varieties of relationships in society, especially family (mother).
I like that you are explaining in a more professional manner, not so much in (like other authors) a conversational style.
1. Highly Neurotic (1:50)
2. History of Inconsistent Discipline (4:51)
3. Highly Manipulative (6:31)
4. Self Esteem is Contingent Upon Others, Including the Husband (7:18)
5. Emotionally Distant (8:10)
6. Shaken to her Core when Criticized by the Husband (9:52)
7. Difficulty Maintaining a Positive Self image (11:15)
8. The Wife's Incite is Compromised (13:22)
9. Puts the Phrase "Taking Something Personal" into a Whole New Perspective (14:22)
10. Envy is Converted into Schadenfreude(taking joy in others pain) (15:31)
You need to really get a hold of yourself and consider this like a hurricane or some natural disaster if you've manifested this person it is because you need to look at whatever you've been avoiding and letting it ruin your life. Every deficit is now highlighted. It will be simple to work on yourself. They never loved you. They don't know what that is. They will not be happy until you are destroyed. They will only take. Never give.
Accept these things- you lived a contrived fantasy - it was not real. You didn't not Lose anything with the relationship ending. You now have a chance to prioritize your life in a way that will have meaning before it is too late. Sure your ego hurts and yes. You've been in an emotional 6 car pike up. Get appropriate care your old self is gone. Look forward. And - living well is the best revenge. God bless all of you struggling to find your way. The pain will diminish. You have a lot of power to take back. Get cracking!
I've been researching Narcissism, NPD, traits and symptoms, cause and effects,.etc. But have been having real trouble trying to figure out my future X-wife of 13 years. She has traits (Out of 1-10 per personality type, ave. between 1 to 5) of every narcissistic personality type cataloged. But after watching this video,..I now know for a fact she is a true vulnerable narcissist. Every word spoken in this video,..i mean every single damn word,.. is my wife!! I ruined my life thinking i could help her, in many different ways,. it always turned against me, and depending on the flip, the current mood, the sun shined that day,.wtf ever! would have signs thrown in to where, she is more the malignant or covert type in in reactions, manipulation tactics,.promoting or provoking even violence in arguments. pushing me intentionally until things get violent. And after walks away smiling, like mission accomplished. and then takes that in-mind with her smear campaign. plays the victim not only to make me the bad guy, i'm the narcissist,. but also tries to portray the victim to me, even when we're not arguing. and in the snap of a finger,..FLIP,.. she's raging. i could go on & on,. now were separated, i'm caught up in ruminating, trauma bonded,.suicidal thoughts from the shame of it all. and i know its not what i should be doing for myself to heal, move on,. its never ending! I KNOW BETTER,.. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH ME?????
You've been severely traumatized. I can totally relate and believe me, it does stay with you, you just learn to not let it affect you so much. Hoping you can get to a better place!
Loved hearing about the correlates with environment and development of vulnerable narcissism.
I watched this and ended up being totally horrified everything he said completely describes a particular person in my life!
Same here. What have you done
@@mavrick1297 well it took me 12 years to impose boundaries and to actually realise that I am not responsible for all the bad things that happened to this person! I finally realised that no matter how much I tried to understand them and try to make them happy the bitterness was inside of them and there was nothing I could do or should to help them! These kinds of people use guilt and victim behaviour to make you feel sorry for them! It's all nonsense, drop them and cut contact or learn to day no!
Thanks Doc, I still needed to hear this a second time.
I really appreciate you giving some insight into the pain behind narcissism.
Dr Grande, your many videos have given me much insight, understanding and comfort. I’m deeply grateful, thank you so much 🙏🏼
This particular one describes my mother to the T! I’ve gone through so much pain and torture as a child and to another degree as an adult, it is nice to see some of my own hodgepodge ideas borne from years of trying to figure out this most basic of relationship, supported by you and others from an objective and clinical standpoint. It truly helps me see through the gaslighting and overcome the cognitive dissonance. I’m at peace now and better able to relate to her without being caught up in the usual maelstrom of pain, confusion, manipulation and guilt.
"say you wanted to get a vehicle that was fuel efficient, and there's only one thing that you can know about this car"
*goes into drag/aerodynamics, the weight, the engine*
me, an intellectual: How Many Miles Per Gallon
Rowan S thats exactly what i was thinking.
Me as a German "how many liters per 100km".
Hahahaha!
This is when I knew Doc was a car guy.
You just cleared up over 45 years of mystery for me. Thank you for making this video!!!! Thank you!!
Your explanations rock! I have recently realized that my Mom was a narcissist, & you are exceedingly helpful. Thank you. ♥️✌🏽
Thank you for this lecture video, realised what is going on in the 7 years of my marriage, the violent reactions to innocuous criticism, the splitting with a rage directed at me as if we've nothing to do with each other, incessant criticism and blaming in private and occasional praise in front of others, the gaslighting, the manipulation, the shifting of blame, my isolation from any meaningful company to express myself and yet no meaningful connection on close proximity, her inability to be happy with herself through a hobby or leisure. The sudden rage for no reason, the resentment if I attended to a relative or a pet because she thought she is neglected, my dread on our anniversary or her birthdays as she will not specify as to what she wants, and later sulking at what she got..
Her condescending attitude towards others,her lack of empathy towards subordinates and even superiors and me..
her ineptitude to do any favour to anyone at a disadvantage.
Her sister(grandiose) and mom(vulnerable) having similar traits...
Now I have a 5y old son and can't call it quits...
Will try some of the suggestions to mitigate the inevitable tensions and uncertainty In this relationship..
I think that out of all comments I've read so far here, that what you're describing sounds the most like what this is to deal with. I know, the passive aggressive stuff, the getting defense and rude whenever one expresses any of their own needs or wants, or when something needs to be done differently. Going into a rage over very small stuff. The quiet arrogance in their tone of voice, in the eyes. I've been there, done that. And yes, the one I deal with has her hobbies too.
You have both described 2 of my relatives precisely and I regret to inform you that it gets worse with age, not better unless ofcourse that narcissistic person wants it to and is willing to do the work. It's like being an alcoholic. There is no cure only treatment.
What plans do you have to protect your 5 years old son? Are there any concrete steps that you are planning to take?
wow- I read your comment - this is so recognizable:
"Her inability to be happy with herself through a hobby or leisure. "
"Her ineptitude to do any favour to anyone at a disadvantage"
So sad to read this. Take care of yourself brother and hope you can find some peace.
THIS explains a lot! Thank you Dr. Grande.
I get so happy when I see a notification 😉
1.Highly neurotic. Depressive.
2. History of inconsistent discipline in childhood.
3. Wife is highly manipulative. Plays the victim, blames the husband.
4. Wife's self esteem is contingent on others.
5. Wife is emotionally distant. She says she wants to be closer , she is emotionally complex.
6.Wife is shaken to the core when criticised by the husband.
She has difficulty regulating emotions.
7. Has difficulty maintaining a positive self image. Failures in her life are turned into big successes in her head.
8.Wife has trouble explaining her feelings. Pronounced lack of insight.
9. "Taking something personally", hypersensitive to differing opinions. Criticises people, ego has to be protected.
10. Envy is converted into schadenfreude. Laughs at and ridicules people.
Your videos helped me gain insight regarding my vulnerable narcissistic traits. Of course, one thing is to see it and another thing is to try and change anything. This is one of the most stubborn distortions of thinking, it seems. Who knows how life would have turned out should I have seen and heard this 20 years ago. Glad to see this kind of work popularized.
“To exist is to be affronted” is the egomaniacal stance of my separated wife.
You're back into the right position in front of the camera doc, because I can see the top of your head again 👍
Brilliant video Dr. Grande 😃🇳🇱
Your explanations are always spot on and so helpful. Thank you Dr.Grande!
Oh my gosh yes...Dr. Grande you've nailed it again. Please keep 'em coming. I will be watching! And Thank You.
Thank you Dr. Grande for this very good explanation.
With this I can probably label a family member of mine with this kind of narcissism.
And believe me, this person is not easy to handle.
Thank you for bringing this into light, Dr. Grande!! The truth of the matter is this is the source of many problems of narcissistic encounters. The feeling of being vulnerable is justified to project many narcissistic behavioral traits. It is individual responsibility to overcome the feeling of "being vulnerable". Nobody can do anyone's homework, especially when they've got the teaching of good values available for access daily. Again, thank you, Doc, and God bless.🙏🤞
This video helped me so much after I was discarded by my NXW. It happened across my feed as I attempted to distract myself from the grief by watching UA-cam videos, and this opened my eyes and helped me to move on. I'm now in a much healthier relationship, and aside from residual anxiety, I am happy.
This is the best (most easily understood) description of covert narcissism that I have heard. Thank you.
This is brilliant and really helpful. I am currently battling to be able to see my newborn son (whom my ex fiancé has withheld from me for 9 months now) in the middle of a smear campaign and have been totally discarded the moment I finally stood up for myself, but so many more things are coming to light now in how she interacted with me and others in the relationship, it was horrible. This explanation highlights so many of those things in a clear and concise way.
Thank you for this wonderful explanation with my wife 25 years and in the last half, I now realize she has been developing a narcissistic personality. Her mother definitely is so it seems like she is putting those lessons from childhood into motion. Her father abused her mom when she was very young. I feel like she is putting that anger towards him and directing it to me. Though eventually her mother broke her dad down and she became his enabler and he became a feeble dysfunctional alcoholic dependent on the mom for financial support of his alcoholic unemployed lifestyle.
Became a stay at home dad 3 years ago after years of my wife asking me to. Now I realize this was all kind of a trap for me. This video is confirming other traits that are in line with my belief that she’s a narcissist.
At least now I realize there is little chance of things getting better. Sadly they are only going to get worse. Now I’m left to leave her and deal with all the challenges that life will bring upon me but at least I know I can save myself from things getting so awful that I might find myself in a hole of total despair by her narcissistic ways.
One of the things you mention and I had already come to believe is that she has ZERO idea of her feelings. She doesn’t like to share her emotions. And I realize that she doesn’t know what she is feeling. I feel sad for her in that way.
Another point is number 10. I started to believe that she was envious of me, of my intellect and how I am able to self reflect and articulate those thoughts and feelings. I sensed that she found pleasure in trying to knock down my ego out of envy.
And it really makes sense why she didn’t want me to work. She saw her mom set up her dad in this way as becoming the bread winner. And that made him highly dependent on her. I sacrificed so much for her to have a career in nursing. And sadly after 3 years of not working, I will be setback horribly in my line of work. And also at my age in my 50’s.
It’s so painful but at least I have clarity of what needs to be done. I have been feeling like she would just slowly have me kill my self esteem to the point of letting myself fall apart and be driven into the dirt.
The sad part is the effect this will have on my kids.
Man, do I relate to that!
@@mikejohn0088 sorry big Mike
This literally brought tears to my eyes!
This has GOT to be my favorite of yours.. it fills in so many blanks I could not understand.
Experienced all 10 signs (with ex-wife) and was very frustrating until recently. Before watching your scientifically based videos, there was a sense of toxicity, but could not articulate or define those actions with an understanding of mental health into the constant and continual actions described. For me, it seems these 10 signs are more common than not, and am much more guarded with who I hold hands with.
This guy nailed EVERY description of my wife exactly. He outlined every reaction that my wife displays in vulnerable narcissistic condition. I’m archiving this video.
Definitely going into the favorites folder.
Make sure she doesn't see the archived video or else.
@@TimLagerstrom She doesn't do UA-cam
This is an information bomb worth listening to several times and better than any college lesson I have ever been to.
Dr it's the profound way you transfer your knowledge which is appreciated.
Thank you for your videos on vulnerable narcissist behaviours. I have been researching this subject as I am currently at my wits end with my partner and desperately trying to understand her thought processes and reasoning behind her actions which are 90% in tune with your descriptions. A young child (now 11) has been the glue that has kept us together, 18 years in to a relationship and although heavily invested both financially and with a young child I have had to address the issue head on, with little success, mostly having all problems deflected back at me without any sound logic behind the argument. Further to this her inability to remain calm and discuss problems logically leaves us going nowhere fast. I fully understand that I will become the villan to her dramas when I leave. Luckily for me there are some that have already seen behind the curtain and understand her illusions of happiness are just that, a public show, however I know others will judge my actions, family included, who have fallen for the act. Starting my life over at 45 won't be the easiest thing I've ever done, but the luxury to put my own mind in to a positive, productive place is something money cannot buy.
I would hope that you can be there for your child. Having a stable consistent parent could make the difference between the pattern repeating or not.
It can be a long, horrible haul staying, but if your child has to live with a narcissist parent without daily intervention....
I truly hope you can protect your child through this.
Dr grande, you’re so good at this.
You just described my ex boyfriend with nearly perfect accuracy. Can you do a video on the husband with vulnerable narcissism? And can you also touch on mirroring and projection in vulnerable narcissism in that video?
You've helped me to understand what I'm currently being put through alot better. Thank you!
Amazing clarity Dr. Grande! Thank you
super interesting, I wasn't aware that agreeableness & neurosis was linked with vulnerable narcissism
sleepy_cat situational agreeableness
Excellent and precise as usual! I was just wondering if it might be worth mentioning the 'inferiority complex' as major underlying factor? It has been my experience with vulnerable narcissism that this is the key element behind the sense of shame and hyper sensitivity to criticism and self hatred in general which prevents the proper development of intimacy and attachment and a necessary for a bond to form in a mature relationship. The constant need to relieve this impaired sense of self also seems to motivate 'schadenfreude' aspects you refer to. It has also been my experience that the vulnerable narcissist will actually confess that they are feeling inferior and then blameshift and scapegoat their significant other in reaction to this. Like all narcissists, they seem to need to displace this negative self perception onto those closest to them but in the case of VNs the drama is based on their acute sense of victimhood.
That may have been your experience but it is by no means common or a hallmark of the disorder subcategory. In fact consistently seeing/hearing that I'd be looking for a different diagnosis!
@@bigcconservativeguy2534 inferiority complex with vulnerable narcissism VN makes a lot of sense to me.
with a grandiose narcissist GN (I've been with both romantically) , there is an ABSENT self, a horrifying terrifying hole where a personality should be and when they are confronted with the need for emotional openness in the relationship, it causes panic to the GN. the VN has a personality but it was crushed and they cycle between keeping it hidden and then flirting with other men to build it up.
The Schadenfreude. And when her dark mood strikes, the bully comes out.
On one or two rare occasions that we had open confrontation she opened up about her wounded childhood, it was apparent an extremely difficulty for her to let go of that pain. But that opportunity to get a good handle on that inner conflict passed because the shame was overpowering her resolve to work past it and move on. And it continues like a rollercoaster ride
I have been doing a lot of research into narcissism for a long time and recently got acquainted with the idea of an overt vs covert narc. I came here after watching a couple of Richard Grannon's videos. This video makes so much sense to me and your last point has just really empowered me and opened my eyes!! Honestly, I got used to being devalued and started to strongly believe there is something wrong with me thanks to the barrage of insults when she was angry. Now I can understand on a much deeper level what is going on. Your last point just had such a profound impact on me. It could indeed be true that I am normal and a good guy and that she cannot stand that to the point where she has to call me idiot, stupid, dumb, loser *insert your favourite insult here*...I cannot thank you enough for making this video.
The wife takes the phrase ' taking things personally' into an entire different perspective. 😂
Love your sense of humor, dr. Todd. And thank you for your video's. They are so interesting and informative.
I've been watching your videos this evening. Very informative. As much as I don't want to admit it, I display many of these traits and traits of BPD. I was diagnosed Bipolar 23 years ago but I'm wondering if I need to have my doctor reevaluate me and add a diagnosis or something. I'm going through a divorce and I'm willing to bet all of this contributed somehow. It makes me sick thinking about it.
Thanks, Dr. Grande. Your videos help me on my healing journey. They shift my perspective from "it was all my fault" (as my ex let me believe) to "it was due to her narcissistic personality". This video even made it clear to me, how much my ex herself is a victim of her own personality issues. She behaved abusively, but she was full of shame and fragility. I'm better than that.
My sister in law - God it took me 30 years to see it. I was warned and always defended this ‘poor downtrodden victim’. Boy was I wrong
I always appreciate your videos, Dr. Grande! I am from germany and therefore I have to tell you today, that I really like it, how you pronounce the word "Schadenfreude". Really cool, you made my day 👍🏻
😰 this sounds so much like my sister... is there an way to help someone that acts like this? I really miss my sister & I feel we are so distant because she acts this way 😞
You can’t change them but you can recommend they see a therapist to help with their depression/anxiety, as vulnerable narcs will have issues with these things usually. Don’t tell them you think they’re a narc, just act supportive when you tell them they should look into therapy. If they get a good therapist, the therapist will see what’s going on and slowly help them to become more self aware and reduce the other issues.
I gained a lot of insight into this. Thanks for opening up my eyes. Now that I know what I am dealing with, the better I am able to deal with this.
Thanks Doc very informative, keep doing what you do.
Know my wife for 15 years. Married to her for 8 years.
Only started to realize that she is a vaunrable narcissist. This explains all the confusion I had while knowing her. Didn't understand her behavior.
After studying this condition I tried to approach her on it.
That was a bad idea. She doesn't know or accept that she is.
She took it as an hated attack on her.
Now she is filing for deforce.
There is so much hatred now. Not surprised to hear that I am the problem.
We have a beautiful 5 year old daughter who needs us to be together.
Hope my wife will change her mind. I still love her. I am still in love like the day I saw her for the first time.
She is still a great wife and wonderfull loving mother.
I'll accept her like that but now its a tad to late😢
she'll never change. You overexposed her inner dark emptyness. She will overaccuse you for everything and you'll try to take on you as much blame as possible and showing it arround. You should stay polite , firm and not show any emotion. You should value YOURSELF first. You can tell her that her insight is badly compromised and that you are sorry you haven't recognized this earlier. She will take the blows in ways to accuse you even more and in no way she'll take responsibility for anything. You're in for a lot.
Thanks again, this was super-useful. The best part for me was when you described the therapeutic modality of teaching the vulnerable "wife" to have a real relationship. That was an "ah-ha" in my understanding of what you said just before that. The problem/strategy approach to description helps me see each as a foil to the other and amps up understanding.
This is probably true for any situation where a problem is being corrected. An example that comes to mind for me immediately, based on my experience, is when I saw a woodworking video about tear-out-putting a piece of tape on the edge fixes it, yes, but restraining the motion of the fibers shows me how the tear-out happens in the first place. I hope that was as good as your car analogy. ;)
Dr. Grande.... i have been watching you for some time now. in addition to other great and channels. I have spent the last several years educating myself specifically on narcissism and personality disorders as a collective. .. Love your segments. and thank you so mnuch .... this one here really shed light on a situation that is affecting somenoe close to me..... thank you..
Oh wow. Thanks for whoever sent this.
I watched my Narc mother train my sister to also be a Narc. It's a fascinating dynamic - though not a fun one to live through.
Been married to a woman like this for over 20 years now. She has no idea, it’s completely integrated, but I remember instances even back when we were dating where her reaction to certain things were completely bizarre and alien to me. There was a time when we were living away from our hometown together and her mom fell and broke her kneecap, she got legitimately angry at me for living out of town instead of recognizing that accidents happen, she has agency and we moved and made the decision together, and that you deal with life as it happens. If you want to help your mom I’ll book you a ticket and off you go. It was so emotionally immature and lacked self awareness that I was more confused than anything. Then over the years I recognized a whole suite of strange behaviors; she could never apologize and would maintain a state of silent rage for months with seemingly no concern or desire for reconciliation. I would have to be the one to approach and even then I’d end up uncorking anger. My professional success would make her uncomfortable. It was practically impossible for her to acknowledge any fault or come to a compromise in any disagreement. She would also have these fits of extreme self loathing. We finally got into counseling and she would almost start onto a script. Like it would be things that didn’t mirror reality. Dr Grande mentions the claim that she “wants a close personal relationship but the husband just doesn’t understand” - she did exactly that, and when I’d call her out on this fantasy, documenting all the times I’d reached out with letters and long winded texts trying to open our relationship up with zero effort to reciprocate on her part, she would literally freeze. When she realized that the therapist could see what she was saying didn’t mesh with the real world she would get viscerally upset and actually stormed out of our final joint session. She had an inability to express her actual feelings or express motivations in relationships. If you described a relationship to her and then asked her to speculate on the motivations of the people in the relationship she would struggle like she’s reaching for the right answer on an exam instead of flowing with a reasoned and rational understanding of normal social/relational dynamics. I remember having this revelation that there’s very little depth there and being horrified and perplexed at the same time. I went through a period of mourning realizing that the connection I wanted to have with her is practically impossible. I love her so I’m still here but it’s weird being with someone who lacks true depth and is incapable of comprehending themselves much less their partner.
Interesting analysis.
How can you love an empty shell ?
Only you can decide what to do, but in my opinion you should leave and safeguard yourself. Narcissists bring nothing but pain and despair. Don't sacrifice yourself for someone who can't be saved. Even firefighters know this. It's tragic, but there's no reason to ruin two lives because of narcissism instead of one. Save yourself while you can.
I have been married to a covert narc for 20 years, the first 10 years were sort of ok while she was a stay at home Mum but in 2012 as the economy worsened I asked her to get a job and help contribute to the familiy and all hell broke loose. She is violent, has had me thrown in jail 3 times and I have appeared in court twice, both which I won. Coverts are bullies and are weak, so the last time the Police came round and I was kicked out of my home that I paid for and my name is on the title and subject to a prenup I had had enough of her and the bent Police Force. I had bought her a car subject to a finance condition which she had not met so I got a metal pole and smashed the Merc to pieces. Of course I was arrested for criminal damage but I won because I had bought the car and paid for it but I believe that taught her she had crossed a boundry and that I am willing to use violence and she has been like a lamb since. I do not talk to her anymore and only discuss our son. She has been trying to replace me by trying to meet up with guys and having affairs but she has caught 3 stds for her trouble. My attitude now is do not interfere with the enemy when they are in the process of distroying themselves. I am sitting this out until the "reset" happens..... I believe they are returning to Common Law which means the crooked courts will enforce my prenup. At the moment my 13 year old has access to me and his Mum which is a good thing and it also gives him the opportunity to see the bahaviour of his own Mum. She goes out all the time meeting random dudes instead of spending time with him. She has already lost her eldest son, she kicked him out because he got a girlfriend and she was not going to tollerate competition with another women. Narcs are just evil people.
@@horiboyablemgtow7842 made my chest tight reading this. Good luck to you. Our son had a health issue which combined with marital stress caused an autoimmune response in me. Be careful and remember to relax, find time meditation and stillness, or you’ll end up subconsciously hurting yourself and end up with some chronic health problem.
I have been reading about and looking at videos about narcissism for the last couple of days, strongly suspecting that my wife falls into that category / personality type. A lot of information regarding narcissism has fit on her but it has never felt close enough or spot on to me, until i found this video! My wife is for sure not of the grandiose type, that is the one that almost all sources on this topic will address, and not the vulnerable type. So THANK YOU for this clarification and breakdown it helps me a lot.
Excellently explained. Very informative, understandable and helpful. Thank you very much 🤗
Oh my god I understand my mother now. Thank you!
Terrifying isn't it
My mom was so inconsistent. She would also always give in, to make herself feel better about not having to punish us. It mostly made me anxious as hell, because then my dad would have to do doubly the punishing. If I got in trouble, my mom would let me off the hook, but then my dad would come yell and it was always confusing to me because the line of what is or isn’t allowed was always changing
Looking through each comment it is reassuring to see how the garbage I have been going through and currently still am, makes sense. Its hard NOT to feel sorry for them but at the same time they crack you over the head with an emotionally manipulative hammer and you keep thinking... why the hell can't I break away., what the hell is wrong with me!!
Excellent and well explained topic Dr, Grande, thanks.
I was totally confused for 25 years. How could she idolize and devalue me at the same time ? After we separated, I discovered journals she hid describing her childhood, they made me cry. I now believe the empath in me loved a broken 15 year old, in 32 year old woman’s body. She intentionally bound me to her with children She knew i would love and not abandon, they were “born with a job” , I stayed. She no longer had that hold when our babies became adults. I asked her for “nice” divorce. Big mistake ! Dad is the bad guy ! 6 years coming to grips through videos like this. Real world “help” doesn’t even slightly “get it”, I didn’t, how would my kids ? I was desperate for adult conversation for all those years, we talked a lot , about other people ! We cared for everybody, how could i have a problem with such a wonderful giving woman ? She made no close friends. Just gathered “flying monkeys” for victim. I never understood why she praised me more than i deserved, now i do. My people skills, and dating filters were no match for this !
Great presentation Dr. Grande. Could you help us Dads, or Moms, with strategies to explain to our grown kids what they they were born to deal with ? Their confusion? I am worried sick about them 😥
Collin Fraser wow...Collin...I can totally relate. Finding this video and Dr. Grande’s balanced and competent presentations has been a life saver for me. Once the kids grew up she switched gears on me and from a neurotic who blew up every 3-4 weeks for 22 years turned into a stone cold avoidant who has now cut me off completely. I’m still in paralysis and have no clue if, when and how to explain what went on to my kids who will probably never get it.
33 minuets ago I agree I don’t owe them anything. Divorce isn’t convenient for me at the moment due to various circumstances but I’m working my way to that point. I don’t believe anymore a covert (vulnerable) narcissist can mature overnight and “change”. Can’t even imagine growing old with a spoiled, uber selfish narcissistic 12 year old girl living in the body of a mature woman. But since divorce causes ripple effects in other parts of life, I’ve chosen to wait for a timing of my choosing.
@33 minuets ago My friend divorced recently. The kids were finally grown. Yesterday he stopped by, red rimmed eyes, devastated. This divorce just cost him his entire 401k, spousal support for the next 10 years, child support til age 19, his gun collection, % of his police retirement. The house sale profits went to attorney fees. The kids sided with mom. Age 45, he'll never rebound with savings or home ownership. He'll be living in a cheap apt and broke going into old age. Time will time if it was worth the losses or not.
Sgt Mom - I Thought we were speaking of personality disordered person ? Fear of abandonment, is at the root of destructive behavior that confuses everyone. Burning down the house and vindictiveness serves nobody. Think you might be on the wrong channel ?
@@collinfraser1218 No, hun. The person I addressed suggested divorce. I just witnessed the devastation of divorce yesterday. He thought if he was fair, she would be. He's now staring down the barrel of dire poverty and no savings in his waning years. I suggest all men look before they leap on the divorce highway to hell. Anybody have a better suggestion? I'd say, be pleasant and go about your life as separately as possible. Poverty sucks.
This is my mom entirely. My mom ran my bio father off, ran my sisters off, and my step dad & gma (her own mother) into their graves. Terrible.. it was crazy when I finally realized she’s a covert. Since she wasn’t like a typical grandiose narc but had lots of the same signs. Unfortunately it runs in my family so I have traits, but nothing like my mom or one of my sisters. My other sister has issues but isn’t a narc. Thank God there’s information like this around!!
Thanks for your work Doc! Totally eye opening for me, a classic Codependent Fat kid with codependent alcoholic/Narcissist divorced parents, married to who I now know is a Vulnerable Narcissist with a laundry list of child hood issues also. Only took me 27 years to figure it out :)
Now I get why my wife LOVES those TV shows where "Rich Housewives" show their lives crashing! while they treat each other horribly with a smile on their lifted faces. G.
Very interesting and accurate description!
Doctor, I would love to hear your take on this. As I'm listening to this, it sounds like "the wife" has adopted negative beliefs about herself from childhood, and she acts according to these beliefs. The reason she can't explain her motives for her behavior shows me it's subconscious, because the language of the subconscious isn't based in logic but primal feeling. She's constantly claiming the romantic interest to be emotionally distant, because that's probably the belief her caretaker projected on to her. That her feelings don't matter. And she's basically running a subconscious program installed in childhood that she can't even explain that enabled her dysfunctional psychological survivalmode. What are your thoughts on this Dr? I feel like in psychiatry we get lost in labels and statistics, while it seems to me that a lot of these behaviors are rooted in beliefs of one self, mostly subconscious. And of course a mix of genetics, but I find it hard to believe genetics are a "death sentence" in these cases. We now know about the science of epigenetics which to me ties into this whole story. The mind is easily fooled by beliefs, we know this. We take it to a whole other level when the "wife" comes to believe at an early age that she must move into a psychological state of survival ,and all it's psychopathological "friends" (behaviors) will save her. Survival sounds like a good reason evolutionarily speaking to turn a (otherwise) pathological "narcissistic"gene on?
And you have nailed why the DSM is such a garbage fire when it comes to diagnosis. Modern psychology/psychiatry does not understand anything about the process of the diseases they claim to treat, and instead rely on poorly constructed (and very unscientific) explanatory models to basically bullshit the public into thinking they are erudite. It's why psychiatric drugs really cause problems. You may enjoy a more rigorously researched (at least cited) perspective than this channel- Dr. Grande is super mainstream and seems very susceptible to societal expectations of gender in particular, which clearly biases his interpretations; part of why we see so much talk on female BPD and male NPD. Check out Mad in America. It's a great resource for counter cultural thought that is rigorously tested and researched.
I find myself wondering sometimes if my wife really loves me. I might be a narcassist. The interesting thing is that my parents were both affectionate to each other and to me. I knew they loved me because they not only said it but showed it in so many ways. If I am a narcassist I certainly can't point to anything my parents did wrong.
@@ChristopherSalisburySalz A narcissist has no ability to take responsibility for any behaviors or self-reflect and analyze their patterns in a logical way as that would require a type of self-esteem that they do not have. The fact that you are able to do that means that you can not have NPD, it could be, however, that you have certain narcissistic characteristics that you are acknowledging within yourself or it could be a whole other issue. You would have to do further research to find out but I can assure you that every narcissist on the planet truly believes that they are perfect or almost perfect and would never ever consider otherwise let alone something as serious as narcissism! LOL
@@ChristopherSalisburySalz if you were a narcissist you wouldn t be here wondering if you were one and you wouldn t care if your partner was and be searching for solution.
@@mimilalla6197 what is it then if you have all of the behaviors Dr. Grande talks about in this video and would say you are a vulnerable narcissist that learned those survival and coping mechanisms in early childhood, and are now aware of it as an adult but it’s so ingrained and subconscious that you still display those behaviors even while working on them? Can’t one be aware of being a narcissist and work on changing those behaviors and thought patterns? Or do you suddenly become not a narcissist once you realize that you are a narcissist because of said realization?
How can someone like this get better?
I wish I would have seen this vid back in 2019 when you made it.
It really explains some points I was really puzzled about.
Best information I’ve seen so far. Thank you