The last couple of years, it's slowly dawned on me that my Dad is a narcissist, and a lot of strain in the family traces back to him. I'm repeatedly astonished at how unwilling he is to admit that he's made mistakes, and continues to make them, even when the strain on the family is so tangible.
It's important to note that narcissists do not take kindly to being abandoned, so if this commenter decides to leave she should set up her plans quietly in advance. The break-up typically isn't pleasant and easy with a narcissist. They like to be as mean and difficult as possible and try to make you the bad guy. Don't let their tactics get to you. Please have a plan and stay safe
I almost wonder if setting up the breakup in a way that the narcissist thinks it's their idea to split would work? Might be difficult depending on the situation, but maybe that would make the split less problematic. (Obviously this requires some level of being able to manipulate the narcissist, which isn't necessarily easy, but maybe a viable option.)
I agree on “staying in a bad marriage for the children” not being a gift. My parents stayed together way too long and I remember begging my Mom to separate from my Dad..:it did more mental damage to my sibling and I than ever did any good…
Same story. It totally did more damage to me. I don't know what a healthy relationship looks like. I accepted bad behaviors and made too many excuses for toxic people.
Two of the many things that can make separation complicated a) the risk of poverty for single women is often substantial b) separating often means that a parent will be required to leave their child/ren in the care of the other partner for up to half of their time, without them being there with them - this can be quite a worrying prospect if someone has realised that their partner is not a healthy person.
@@clairem730growing up in poverty would have been an actual blessing….. Instead my parents stayed together “for the kids” made my sister & I lives a living hell……..
I left my 13 year marriage 4 years ago. My kids are still recovering and healing and so am I. He has not changed one iota, which is to be expected from a narcissist. I have little to no contact with him and the peace it has brought is worth everything. It was hard to step over that threshold of separation as a Christian believing I should stay married, but I changed my view on that. Any toxic marriage, any abuse towards my kids and myself is enough biblical ground to justify leaving.
I admire you so much!!! I wish I had the courage & strength to do it, too. But I don't. No matter how much money I save, how many steps I put into place....I always cave. Mostly because I have a severe chronic pain situation (I had to have a pain pump implanted) and I'm barely able to function as it is. If I took off like I dream of, I would lose my insurance, my home, my everything. Our kids are grown & have all been encouraging me to leave for years, but they don't understand all of the mitigating factors that clog everything up. And none of them would want, have the space or even afford for me to move in with them (even temporarily). If only I was strong enough to DO IT. But I'm NOT. And I am honest enough to admit that. He would NEVER go to counseling; just as this video says, he thinks anything wrong with our marriage/lives/relationship is because of ME. It is "MY FAULT" I am anxious, tense, afraid & unhappy. I hope & pray that someday either I get enough courage or that he will come to a realization & CHANGE.
I was raised by a narcissist and then worked with one. In both cases I eventually bailed. Spent years asking myself what I could have done differently. People would say, well can't you just let it roll off your back? No, not forever, you can't.
The enablers are also lacking in boundaries and self worth. Typically they haven't uncovered their own stuff in the least and are willing to accept awful behavior. Been there, have friends who remain there.
I stayed married 6 years longer than I should have because I thought it was better for the kids. But once I realized it was better to divorce, I saw that my kids did much better. As I got better so did they. Can’t say the other parent changed, unfortunately but I’m glad I worked on myself.
I once dragged my narcissist to a therapist and when we walked out, he yelled at me, "Why did you air our dirty laundry in front of a stranger?" He felt exposed. The whole thing was pointless.
My beautiful narc ( low level I think/hope) said same to me just after she started her smear campaign against me. I just looked at my message and paused, (5 mins easy so you narcs that watch can take a fcukin hike) cos I don’t know what else to say. 12 years of research on this and I’m still in the cognitive dissonance phase. It’s mind blowing stuff when you become aware. First vid I’ve seen on this ladies knowledge. I’ve seen vaknin, and most others. Great job on this vid love . 💕. Subscribed x
This reminds me of my last marriage it got to the point in couples counseling where she would not look at her stuff, I’m not perfect but I was willing to do anything to make that relationship work. But I had to face the reality that it wasn’t savable, I was devastated!!😢
I massively overstayed my welcome in both a high demand religion I was born into, as well as a career that was awful for my mental health. Now, I feel that accepting change and knowing when to give up on something or someone is one of the most important skills you can develop as a human being. It took me a long time to realize that stubbornness isn't inherently a virtue, even if it can help you in certain situations.
This video is like it was made for me! And your advice about getting divorced FOR the kids is exactly what my therapist explained to me, which helped me finally get up the courage to file for divorce from my narc. Both of us came from married parents so I tried everything to "fix" the problems. But he never even tried the one homework assignment from when he went for a few sessions to couples therapy 2 years before I filed. His homework was to write down 3 things he liked about me. He never wrote down one. I'm still in the middle of it with him, because it hurt his ego that I actually filed, but I'm in a separate house and I'm already feeling so much more at peace. Plus, he proved to me that I made the right decision with how he's acted over the last year. I can parent our 2 kids so much better now that I'm not walking on eggshells around him!
I have been married 30 years. This is what I know , maybe I can save someone a few decades. Just take any question you have and repeat after me. "He knows. He just doesn't care" That's it. That's all there is to it. He understands very well how you feel, he knows the changes you would like him to make, he is aware of who he is and what he is doing and the consequences. He knows what is expected of him as a husband , father and as a man. He is the only one really that truly knows the reality of your relationship. He doesn't care. And he won't change because it doesn't benefit him to change.
Wow, thank you for summing it up so succinctly! In the beginning we expend so much energy trying to make sense of the situation, be heard, understood and cared about. Personally, I focus on God to meet my needs and keep interactions with the narcissistic husband to a minimum.
Narcissists don’t need fixing, they are perfect the way they are. Everyone else is the problem for not seeing it that way. (If you couldn’t tell, this was a joke about narcissism)
I grew up with a narcissistic father who constantly emotionally, mentally, and physically abused my mother. Listen to Kati… I’ve been in therapy for years now and still unpacking trauma because my mother DIDNT LEAVE HIM
Maybe she didn't leave him because she didn't have the finances to and was scared he would bleed her dry financially fighting for custody in court, smear her name and lie in court to take you away from her
My parents divorced when I was 17 and it was a shocking event, since I’d never even seen them fight or have a major disagreement. I was really crushed at the time (but also undiagnosed with clinical depression). However, I’m an adult now and I wish they had split up much sooner. Things were endured that shouldn’t have been, and I feel really bad that they were staying in this completely unfulfilling relationship for my brother’s and my sake. I know they were doing their best and probably thought this was the healthiest way to handle it, but it ended up teaching me to put up with abusive behavior in my relationship. It’s a thousand times better for you to go through a divorce, even though that’s extremely difficult (I also got married very young and that ended in divorce, so I’m looking at this from both sides) than accidentally teaching your children that it’s ok to put up with narcissistic behavior. I feel for the person who wrote this comment, I really do, but I also really hope they get out. ❤
100% agree on your take on divorce and not staying together for the kids. When my parents actually started divorce proceedings, it was such a relief, because it had become pure hell to be in the house up until that point.
My whole life I had been dealing with narcissists and I wish they rename, this twisted emotions condition, as it deserves better and more descriptive name. Narcissism is actually not about people who are in love with themselves, but a total opposite. They are patologicaly sensitive, deeply wounded people, emotionaly or the other way rejected people by the primarily care givers. They are broken, unnoticed people who hasn't received love and haven't been nurtured as a kids. They don't know how real love and care feels, hence they have nothing to give as they have been starved of love , attention, gentle touch as a little kids. It is also a family curse. It is difficult to snap out of that pattern and to make sense of their disturbed, interupted upbringing. It took almost lifetime therapy to understand and make sense why I have had every mental illness under the sun and why I merry a Narciso. Because I could only relate to that type of man as I understood only their "language" and their behavior. I also have noticed something about narcissist. I am of impression that all Narcisos are on the autistic spectrum. Having said so I don't believe that all autistic people are narcks. I'd love to live and see if reserch is going to be done on it. Anyhow, I feel now, that my mother and her mother and my ex, who are no more, what is frankly speaking so reliving ( I feel guilt and shame to say so), they were just the victims of their ancestral victims. There is my sister who is still alive to remind me what Narcissism feels like. Just, that I don't forget!!!!! Braking the long chain of victimhood is not easy matter . My "saving grace" and the curse at the same time was the therapy that I mentioned and non narcissistic father who showed me what real and unconditional parental love looks like. For the people who had both narcissistic parents I believe there is no cure.
This was a great video! Full of lots of great advice and not just about narcissism. So many nuggets of wisdom that I wish people would hear! I do have kids and completely agree with your stance. Healthy relationships is far better than a toxic family environment! The problem of course is that the toxic parent will reek havoc on the healthy parent trying to do things in a healthy way. Not being together at least can keep those fights and disagreements to text or phone calls so the kids don’t hear and witness it as much. I’ve been through it all and life is wayyyyyyyy better on the other side. Good luck to anyone considering splitting from the unhealthy relationship and forging your own path! ❤
I like what you said when you said our reaction to that addict is a part of the problem. Because that’s a key component in healing. I’m at this stage of letting go.
Child of a parent who didn’t want to get divorced because of the kids here (and 2 narcissistic parents) 🖐🏻 I can confirm that my mom sticking around for our sake only made me and my siblings grow up around a toxic environment which fed a lot into my GAD and general unhealthy way of looking at life that’s made it’s way into my adulthood and I’m working on now in therapy. Divorces are hard, but if my mom had stayed with my father longer, life would have been harder and things would have been worse.
I find when I stayed in prolong situations with personality disorderd people that I became reactive and toxic myself. Crazy making behavior is exhausting and unnecessary to stick around for.
And how do you think they got so damaged in the first place? I for example got sick because of years of bullying from people who call themself "healthy". Everyone ist toxic in one way or another. Cause everyone gets blind for their own mistakes and instead blames other people. Key to turn down this cycle is accepting that everyone isn't flawless and that YOU aren't an exception. So be honest with other people and have the courage to tell them what they are doing wrong and why, cause this way you are giving them at least a chance to change. But also be honest whit yourself and reflect your behaivor yourself. If you only blame the "other party" you are toxic yourself.
This is wonderful Katie! I think a good aside for dealing with addict behavior is to know the difference between someone who is dry and someone who is sober. It sounds like this spouse, like my former spouse, is dry. He was incredibly abusive. My younger brother is sober. I'm proud of him. He's so healthy and we're closer than ever!
It took me years to understand what was happening to me in my relationship with my wife. The contolling, her saying to me I love you you are the best, only to immediately put me down...talk about confusing, me confronting her about her attitude about me only for her to say you deserve better..Ill do better and her to do so for about a week but then return to nasty. My wife would contantly ask me to do for her but when i asked for the smallest thing in return she wouldnt do it. If i denied her request she'd make me feel bad. I used to say to her..."Its your world i just live in it"...and she'd lose her mind. I always knew it wasnt right. Id feel alone and ashamed that i did so much for a person that one day would praise me but for two weeks after treat me like crap. She'd threaten divorce, take the kids and child support as a means if control. It would keep me in constant fear and I'd do more for her to get her to stop with the nonsense. However something happened. Our kids are now adults. She no longer has that power. Therefore, when she asks for the outrageous i tell her no. When she demeans me, i push back. When she threatens divorce, I tell her to go do it..see if i care. If she gives me the cold shoulder i make sure Im always up in her face. I think on some level i understood that she was playing games, but i knew i had to play the long game with her. Was it healthy? No..not at all. However, I simply was not going to give up on my kids. My parents divorced. Being a kid from that divorce, I was not going to have my kids not have their dad in their life. I heard what was said in the video, but that a divorce was not in the cards. I simply realized that Id regain my power when the kids got older. After so many years of the abuse, her shots dont really mean much anymore. In fact, while she does still do her crap she knows it does nothing. Therefore, she gives up and is nicer to me. Whenever she gets nasty, I let her talk to herself and not me. I dont give in and she gives up. Its terrible. Its disgusting and not healthy. I recognize that and most likely this will come to an end, but for now i know how to control it from destroying who I am.
@@brendarewan7441 Nothing suspect at all. Those are the facts. It is what it is. I'd imagine others understand it as well as there are 10 thumbs up on the post.
Same here. I’m in my car now to get away and enjoy some time away. I am going to do my own thing. I’m retired and said I’d be here for him, but I am drowning. I’m gonna find my own life. I will still make sure he is ok- he’s older- but I’m done with trying to do things together. E keeps pushing me away, but wants me to help with his needs, but not mine. I prayed and I felt like the Lord told me to let go. So when he gets upset over nothing- I walk away. I’m not gonna defend myself or try to wonder what he’s thinking and try to understand. I’m just gonna walk away.😅
You are a strong minded person. I give you props for finding a way to stay with a narcissist. My husband is one and I’m still trying to find a way to help him. Thanks for your honesty and advice! I’ve learned a thing or two when I read about your situation.
Please make a video for the spouses of narcissistic partner, particularly covert narcissists & how can that be survived until someone decides about what to do with the marriage!
Great video Kati! I agree that it's in the best interest for the children to divorce, for all the reasons you shared. It's a very personal decision and has so much potential to cause feelings of guilt, doubt, and fear, despite having tried everything to have a healthy relationship. I was told I was a quitter at that time in my life, and I now can see how that stuck with me over the years. It actually contributed to my staying stuck with a narcissist much longer than I should have.
I feel for the children of these parents; most people spend more time trying to decide which pizza toppings to get than to deciding to have put a new life into existence. In the end the children of such parents will end up traumatised and in therapy for life. Obviously, there are exceptions, but exceptions are rare. If you are not happy, how can you expect your kids to be.
Well sadly it will affect the children in the long term they will experience trauma it will be toxic and think this is ok so I would divorce for overall health for everyone well being.
I got told more often than not I should first think, then decide, then act. So I really have no idea why people make such a fuss about it now, if I actually do exaxtly what they told me to do🤷 And when I do decide on my pizza topings while making HARD and WORLDSHAKING decisions, why not? Also: pizza topings ARE important. Cause... "You can try to resist! Try to hide from its kiss! But you know, but you know that yoooou Can't fight the Pizza!🍕 Deep in the dark, you'll surrender your heart! But you know, but you know that yooou... Can't fight the Pizza!🍕 Noooo... You can't fight iiit... It's gonna get to your heart...🍕💕 And Belly!🫄 It's noting but a fact dude.
Also. I hope for YOU that on my pizza are only topings I like! If not I will change the brand. Cause I don't like giving this big of a complaint for noting!
Diagnosed with ASPD-NPD. And truth is you cant save them. Therapy and personal effort can,you can only help at the times. I just been with person who again had same line ''I wanna save you''. I laughed a bit i said : ''No,you cant. But i can.''
There are few things that can bring as much happiness as marriage, and one of them is divorce. Specifically divorce from a narcissist. Seeing my mother embrace the peace and quiet and freedom after staying in a marriage for us kids (till we grew up and left home) has been the most beautiful thing, for the 30 years afterwards she would mention how she enjoys the quiet freedom every single day if someone would bring it up. As someone who's parents stayed together for us, don't bother, it's better for your kids to see you happy as individuals than to see you together.
Hello Kati, I was recently introduced to the term Affective Responsibility and I have watched a bunch of videos, Ted talks and even podcasts about it, I'd like to see you talking about it. That'd be an awesome video content. Hope you have a great day!
When you have to tell yourself that you're staying in it for the kids, ask yourself that again and really evaluate. I completely agree with what you've said in the video, Kati. I grew up with a narcissistic dad. I grew up believing that his behaviour was normal and what I should look for in a future partner. I grew up learning from the relationship he had with my mum... which of course bleeds into the family structure... poisoning each and every one of us. My first relationship was with a narcissist, believing that it was the only way to be loved. Kids watch and they learn. For me, it took years and years of recovering and unlearning.
Being with my ex narc for the past 8 yrs. made me observe this very pattern. I think they wanted to feel very important in a way that is disturbing. Instead of building trust with their intimate partners, they destroy the trust that they built with you (in that case lying when they tried to put you in their pedestal). Once they have a committed partner, they can’t stand being loved authentically by one person. Instead they go on and prey on other women that is susceptible to their love bombing. My ex narc was a compulsive pursuer in a relationship. He would go back and forth to the women he were involved before or try to meet women in complicated situation so that going public isn’t an option while having you as their main supply. In the end they destroy the very person that loved them. They are like toddlers testing your love for them. Showing and telling them you love them isn’t enough, they will cheat on your face to make you feel inadequate even if you are more than they deserve. They want to test your love for them so they keep hurting you and when you have enough of their abuse, you leave. Then they tell you, ‘you never loved me because you abandon me’. Well in fact it’s their actions and narcissistic behavior that made you leave or in other cases they discard you and will give silly reasons of the discard. Mine would use, ‘she’s crazy’, ‘she’s a nega-star’, ‘she insults me’, ‘she cheated on me’ et al. So with this pattern of infidelities and emotional abuse (who knows what else) it’s better to walk away. I did walk away and is now rebuilding my life with our daughter. We are struggling financially because I’m not earning enough to provide for my daughter but now we get to laugh and bring with us sunshine every day. No lies, no abuse and no fake love. We only live once, forgive yourself and move forward but never forget the lesson that narc abuse taught you. That is to respect yourself to walk away from what’s hurting and destroying you. That you deserve a life of solitude, happiness and love. Hugs*** :) Additionally I got to know about my narc husband bad ways when I reach out to a private detective digitalinvestigate@gmail.com for help he did a perfect work for me I can see everything he’s doing on his device.
No., They won’t go to couples therapy to escape accountability. They KNOW that a third party will have a jaw dropping reaction from some of the s*** they do. My Honey Bunny, just didn’t show up at the appointment! Is it avoidance when one person doesn’t even show up? Pathetic.
Yes! Literally my husband to a t. He was a jerk to me this morning. I keep telling him put yourself in my shoes. Trying to teach him empathy on why what he did was wrong. He took a shower then came down and apologized and then a few minutes later tried to convince me that it was my fault.
I was the glue - I met all my children's needs. It was me and them - husband detached. I was so stuck on never breaking up the family until my children were adults - then I had to pull the pin. I came from a broken family and abusive step-father and I didn't want that for me children. I don't know if husband was narcissistic (my father, and step-father were) BUT he was very passive aggressive and rarely was part of our family. He always said he was too busy with his job. So I ran the show, and if he was there a bonus for the kids.
So many wonderful impulses within this video! I also had to learn that nothing changes if only one part of the relationship works on it. For me it was the relationship with my father. To learn that he is a narcissist started my healing process. I still can see how growing up in a family with a person with NPD deeply affected me. From the child perspective I remember how I wished early on my parents would divorce. Peace was everything I wanted and I thought divorce would help that. Later on I even spoke open with my parents about it, repeatedly. That's why I deeply agree with the statement that divorce for the kids can be a reasonable decision. I also respect if someone does not want to divorce or even that there are situations when divorce is dangerous. The possible danger is something I did not understand as a child. Although the children are quite young, I just wanted to bring up the thought that the relationships we witness in our parents and have ourselves with our parents affect us from day 1. That's another reason for me to agree on the thought of divorce for the children. Yes, we can learn healthy and stable relationships even after experiencing narcissistic abuse, but we always have to spent a second thought or use more selfreflection. It feels like remaining to be more prone to some unhealthy influences than people learning healthy relationships right from the beginning.
Unfortunately the children of the person asking are too young for the thoughts followingly explained. I still wanted to share these thoughts, maybe it is helpful for someone else. Talking to the children about their thoughts and wishes in a manner that does not disturb the children could be helpful. Maybe it could be kind of a general talk about "how are you feeling about our family?" "what do you like about us as a family?" "what don't you like?" "what would you like to be changed?" "How could that possibly be changed?" It surely is difficult to get to know how children think about something like that without suggesting anything, disturbing or scaring them. But it might be helpful for the parent's own thoughts and decisions regarding divorce to get a feeling of their children's perspective on it. Still, if there is any chance of danger coming from the partner when he gets to know of conversations like this, it should not be done.
My parents stuck together for 30 years for “us kids.” Finally separated when I was in college (I am the youngest). Neither of us ever got married or had a family of our own. We’re in our fifties now.
Child of parents who stayed together and are extremely toxic - together and as individuals. I pray everyday even as an almost 26 year old woman they get divorced. Still finding ways to cope with how they have and continue to treat me to this day. Divorce is better than disrespect.
As a child of divorce, get a divorce for the kids like Kati says. I got to watch my parents marriage fall apart, but they did it behind closed doors and it fucked me and my brother up. I'm still figuring out how to have healthy relationships.
I have been on a relationship with a narcissist for 3 months and half. It’s been one year she broke up with me (cuz I was the problem… according to her) but I still ruminate a lot on it. She even blamed me for issues she had with transport when we were seeing each other which was very rare, for some reason she didn’t want to see me that much but still pretended she loved me, without never saying it, unlike me by the way. After looking it up, I realized I suffered from emotional abuse with her and my therapist also thinks she’s got real problems and he’s trying to reassure me because she brainwashed me so much by making me feel guilty for her own responsibility or problems that for a long time, I thought part of the situation was my fault, that I should have just shut up and not bring up the problems within our relationship. She used to make me go through the silent treatment a lot, verbal violence, lashing out on me on a regular basis for no reason, like when I was simply asking questions about what she intended to do during the summer for instance… I think she had chronic anger and chronic sarcasm, she was being really mean through sarcasm, which was the most hurtful thing I’ve ever experienced when talking to someone. Having someone make fun of you with such meanness is just the worst, especially when you have tons of feelings for them. @katimorton could you make a video about how we can love someone who is a horrible person? Cuz the one thing I can't get through in my mind is how and why did I love soooo much someone who was that terrible and hurtful with me, especially when there weren't even good moments, I mean they were good moments but they were very rare. My experience is the reason why I started making mental health education videos as well (in French), because I want to help anyone experiencing similar situations, traumas and just help people be happier in their lives by having more clarity on what’s going on within their relationships and internal life.
You CAN go to therapy - with someone else. I took a parent but didn't realise she tried to set it up in advance...(they knew the therapist beforehand but didn't tell me!) Luckily she was not successful as the therapist was very professional. Hence she refused to return & started lying about me AND the therapist instead. This was the reality check I needed to face the fact they didn't want anything to change & wanted to continue scapegoating me instead - forever. I was stunned.
My sister was 11 when i was born, our parents finally divorced when i was 3. I never wished to be born, living was HELL because my mom was a horrible mom and my dad was a horrible dad. I grew up with divorced parents and i didn't know what actually happened, and i was only told recently (im 27). My big sister have NO memories from childhood at all, her best friend who lived with us, often recall memories and ask my sister "oh do you remember that time when this happened" and my sister can only remember people or places but she have no memories of school, birthdays, free time activities, nothing. I don't know the specifics but i know both my parents have admitted that they fought and yelled a lot and my mom threw half the kitchen on the floor once (prob when they decided to divorce), our home was not safe at all for anyone really. My dad tried to go from my mom more then once but she held it together, she did EVERYTHING she could to HOLD the family together, until my dad told her that he had another girlfriend and he wanted to marry her and divorce my mom..... I don't know this lady it didn't hold for long, i don't really care. I am glad i did not grow up like my sister did, i might be broken, but i am aware of how toxic relationships look like and i have luckily not fallen into any long lasting relationships that are toxic like my sister did, and i am so sorry for her not really understanding not really knowing because she only started healing recently, after divorcing her alcoholic husband, failing every job or education she tried, and broke down to an unhealthy place with two kids being her only light, until she met her new boyfriend - she is getting help finally and I'm so proud of her she is doing way better
I went to therapy on my own for years when I was married. Were together for two decades. The most she ever game me with one therapist was 5 sessions. And even then she shut down and didn't engage. The other therapists we tried lasted for one or two sessions only. Yet I was always the problem lol. Yeah, this resonates with me. It was like pulling teeth to get her to go to therapy. She even walked out of the first session with one therapist, a highly regarded therapist that utilized the framework that she endorsed. My ex wife may not qualify for a diagnosis of NPD, but she sure has narcissistic tendencies. Getting a divorce was unwanted and painful, but I could not be a healthy person being tied to someone who was so selfish and invulnerable. Marriage is a system that requires all parts to work together. Great video.
People talk about reasons known to describe abusers in marriages, but there are so many risks that no one has ever mentioned. Some research needs be done on the unreported world of evil partners. Resit the wrong doers with backups. Some appear like organised crimes. How can four different people do the same things to four other people in different locations?. Why same techniques ?.
My parents divorced when I was 3. I grew up thinking it didn't matter, or even made me net superior. In reality I now realize it caused a lot of problems, particularly with how they were afterwards.
I may have met one real narcissist in my life. It’s rare. Most aholes are just aholes. But mainly I wanted to thank you for the river analogy bc it made me think.
As much as I see the recognize the concept of divorcing for the sake of the kids, I also think it is very important to educate the children somehow on the concept of divorce and/or separation. Imagine one day remembering sitting on your father’s lap or spending time with him, and next thing you know, you’re consistently asking your mother or parent when you’re going to see your father/other parent again. That gap in communication and apprehensive approach can affect the child(ren) adversely too, like how staying together in a toxic relationship for the children would affect them all adversely as well, especially attachment styles and how they view interpersonal relationships to certain extents. I love your videos and am so inspired by you to this day as I am in my second year of my program as well! P.S. I saw that consent dance short on Caleb’s page, and I totally vibed with how you move and dance 😝✨ much love! 🫶
Thi is a really somber video to a very difficult topic. I am glad my partner is not always easy and we do have our rough times, but we went to couples therapy and it saved our relationship. I hope the person who wrote this question will find a way to live a good life for herself and her kids.
I not married to the narricist but I help take care of my sister who is. It is hard because I can't just walk away from her. She can't take care of herself.
I swear. I am so thankful for you therapists and also you therapists on youtube. My in person therapy is awesome but sometimes it is so cool to kinda hear the theory behind some of the advices or so u get... And i have been now 6 years in therapy. And finally reached a point where i really feel i know how to at least indirectly control my negative emotions. What parts play a role in the way how i feel. And that really seems like a superpower now... In some weird sense that even makes me feel ok about the 6 educations i had to quit and the years of struggle. Bc otherwise i might have never worked on these things... Idk... It's cool in a way :)
Kati you are so sweet and kind cause I was so mad at the commenter! 😂 I think what irked me was this air of moral superiority and in some ways co dependant, people pleasers can sometimes have narcissistic traits themselves. Your advice was so spot on and delivered with so much care and love! Also thank you for being such an amazing representation for people without children, because too many people with children have such fragile egos and don’t want to hear how they are harming their children!
As a child of divorced parents, I can see an argument for both staying and leaving. My parents didn't divorce until my younger brother was out of high school (I was 20), and it wasn't a shock to me at all. I knew something was off; they didn't seem very close with each other, or "in love", as I saw with my mom and her new partner. They did a good job of keeping their issues and most arguments away from us kids though, but I always wonder what it would be like if they had separated when we were little. Perhaps I would have seen a better example of a relationship and/or how to handle dating.
I totally agree with your view on the situation regarding the children. My parents got divorced when I was 11. And yes, it was much better to learn about relationships, happiness, etc. - yes, it wasn’t easy - but it was so much better than to live a lie. Children KNOW that the relationship of their parents is not good, is unhealthy, is hurting each other or all of the family….it’s absurd that parents think they can hide their problems and create an illusion of a happy family.
Yeah, went through this in a short "situation-ship". After about two months when the person that she was and the one that she pretended to be were so different, it was hard for me to understand. I suggested we go to therapy, mentioned not as a couple, since we were just starting off but her behaviour was killing me internally and I thought it might be helpful for both, but she kept mentioning that she doesn't need it because she's not "crazy". Even though the whole thing ended in about 3 months, it left me feeling like crap for a while. In hindsight, it opened up my eyes about these kind of people and why I was "attracting" them. So I got something out of the mess.
Everything u said is exactly what my husband does & this whole video made me cry the whole time cause I know this has to end but I want to get thru this but he doesn't care.. so now im at the point where what am I to do now. My heath is declining because of this. My boys are 23 & 21 and I should've stayed gone when I left him , 20 times. Now my boys have resentment towards their dad & relationship problems.. i always would talk to them about what would be going on but yrs ago we all thought he was bipolar A & B.... But i figured out a year ago, its not that... Hes a full blown narcissist. And it breaks my heart.
Great analogy with the river & anchor. Also for the recipient (me) of the toxic behaviour & learning that my reactions & behaviour twds can also be toxic. I am just learning over the last few months about this stuff & most recently about BPD. I am unsure if my gf is bpd or narcissistic but there appear to be many many traits. She comes from a background with trauma. I find all of this very confusing the more i dig into it but also helpful at the same time. It seems that at times she knows there are issues for her to deal with. She does go to therapy from time to time but, rarely takes responsibility & often feels like therapy is only teaching her that i’m the bad guy. She lies about a lot of things & if i call her out on it, he’ll on wheels comes barrelling twds me & as ya’ll know i’m the bad guy again. It’s not her lies, only my reaction to it.
I know what you mean about lies and reactions. My wife started therapy about two years ago. She has always had her version of things to which I mostly shrugged off even when her version put me in a bad light. I would typically apologize and try to do different so as not to make her upset. As her therapy continued, our relationship has only gotten worse, to a point that it was very difficult to ignore and to which she would say things, do things, accuse me of things that were simply not true. Things that I found myself unwilling to apologize for as they were not true. Things that sometimes she had actually done herself and then would shift it on to me as if I had done them. Fast forward a little over a year, and the therapist that seemed to only be enabling her behavior decided that he could not help her and referred her to a more specialized therapist. The new therapist suggested couples therapy in addition to personal therapy, unlike the first one. I agreed to go as I was desperate for things to get better. After going to couples therapy for several months, it was suggested that I should see the therapist for personal therapy as well. I agreed, of course, as I just wanted things to get better. Fast forward even more, we are no longer going to couples therapy as my wife decided that it simply was not working and that the therapist was taking my side. I had no idea of narcissistic traits or that shifting the blame had a name; projection. We are now separated and my wife is threatening to also quit going to her personal therapy. She seems to only contact me when she needs something or wants to fight. I am having difficulty with feelings, confusion, sense of self-worth, etc. from stuffing things inside for all these years, I am told. I am still going to therapy to try and make sense of it all. Of being in a toxic relationship (therapist's words) for over 38 years. I feel lost, unsure of everything and am now being told that I should go no contact with my wife. Part of me can see what I am being told, part of me just can't figure out how things got so bad, part of me doesn't know how or if I have the strength to go on at times. I feel for you and honestly hope things will get better for you.
@@rogerwhoareyou hey roger, thank you for replying and sharing. What i’ve learned the last several wks from YT vids is that there’s many different perspectives out there & one in particular is that with professionals with a lot of bpd experience seem to all agree that it is one the most misdiagnosed & overlooked disorders by other professionals without bpd experience & backgrounds. I have only had a handful of counselling sessions in my lifetime, all within last couple yrs. We did couples sessions roughly 6 or so times, we both liked our sessions & agreed it was helping. Then a few days before a session an issue came up, totally her doing but i was blamed yelled at & hung up on while only trying to discuss the issue for 3 days straight .. she said she wasn’t going back. I kept the appt to explain to counsellor what had transpired(thinking in back of my mind this was the perfect situation for this stuff to start coming out to the light to an unbiased 3rd party & maybe start getting somewhere) i showed him txt msgs of a back & forth over that period between us to which he replied, “yah she totally avoiding responsibility & gas lighting you. i’m so sorry you’re going through this”. that was about 11mo ago. We nvr went back & here we are, she just moved out last mo. I didn’t understand what was happing for the last 6.5yrs + all i could see was the behaviour & patterns. I always thought it was just unresolved anger issues & always thought that logic & reason would win out. Only recently 6wks, have i learned about these disorders & what was actually going on in our relationship. It’s frightening & helpful at same time. There are a lot of great people both professionally & personally having it, posting vids about this disorder. It’s helped me find compassion when previously only resentment & confusion,bitterness(for the most part). It’s only been 2 sessions but i requested through same organization of our couples counselling someone with a BDP background & it so far is helpful with their insights. One thing she told me was that she can spot bpd a mile away & that in my case anyway is the reason we see it & no one else does is partially because they “wear a mask” around all the time & feel comfortable enough around their FP to take it off at times. I’m not sure what to say other than hang in there & maybe try someone with bpd background(if you haven’t already) as she said it only takes about 4-5 one on one sessions for the person with the disorder to start showing the symptoms during sessions as they become more comfortable with her. Things got so bad because we always want to help & i know myself, my glass is typically half full, always think that things could change once she figures out what’s actually going on. I may be delusional & fooling myself, we have 2 small kids & i am going to exhaust everything i have into trying to fix things. It could be a lost cause but i know i have to try before i completely walk away now knowing what i know. One thing i do know is that we need counselling also. These last few wks has been kind of a mind f&@!k as i find myself continually going back into the relationship past “oh yeah she said this & that before” where i’d before think of it as just her being dramatic to now realizing it was a piece to this large puzzle. I feel for you Roger and hope peace is found for all of us, you somewhere someday!!
i would also add a couple wks after learning more one night she was really calm & i asked her about when she cancelled sessions between us if she remembered why or what the disagreement was. (super rare moment but she also knew she was moving out) She said she remembers being really angry and we were fighting but not what the argument was about. The truth is, i wasn’t fighting or arguing with her about anything only trying to calmly & rationally talk to her while i took her abuse for three days in a row before i just dropped it. I asked her if she thought it was odd the she didn’t remember the reason she cancelled counselling sessions to which she replied in a slightly more irritated tone, yes i sometimes block things out! I’m not 100% certain if she was telling me the truth in that moment or just didn’t want to revisit what she’d done. But thought the reply was interesting nonetheless. Also during my last session with couples counsellor(11mo ago) i told him i documented everything but wasn’t sure why, he quickly cut me off saying “you do it to keep your sanity “ and also learned through these videos that it’s quite normal behaviour to document from someone who is being gaslighted.
❤Narcissism is nothing more than Pride. It's the behavior of a person that has dealt with some type of emotional/physical trauma or abuse that has created a high level of fear within them that they continue to carry... So to keep from being vulnerable and being hurt again by anyone (as they felt in their past)... they have created a wall (Pride). Silent treatment, lack of empathy/love, never being wrong, etc... is nothing more than Pride keeping their emotions intact to not look weak (they promised themselves they would never be again by ANYone). Even after their downfall, it's still hard for them to change. It's all Fear based. And until they address those fears, they will never be able to become vulnerable enough to show humility. Humility is what cures Narcissism (1st John-4:18)... Hurt people, hurt people.
I didn’t know my partner was a narcissist when we went to couples counseling and the therapist didn’t understand that there was abuse in our relationship, he said our problems weren’t that bad, and was siding with my partner a lot, completely not understanding what was really going on. He only saw the facade my partner was keeping up. My partner would then use therapy as a way to manipulate and abuse me further
Sadly I was with a narcissist meaning I worked with one sometimes she confused me I knew it was manipulative on her part sometimes she became moody sadly overtime she became abusive towards me because yes I called her out what she was doing yes she put it back on me that’s my fault I had it enough because yes I felt I was walking on eggshells with her so it’s a fact narcissists can’t be fixed and don’t want to be fixed the the most miserable and unhappy people in this world and anyone that’s friends or with them in a relationship with them or even a family with the narcissist I seriously get out the former narcissist I was around really affected me and drained me badly am still recovering from the emotional and verbally abuse exactly it won’t ever get better if you stay with the narcissist of any kind😢!
I have sympathy...for anyone who is married to one...I have for 41 year...at last I am moving away...best thing....because they will not change..or admit there wrong...
I used to know a couple and the husband was in therapy for cptsd. He was an insidious emotionally abusive narcissist. He devalued and discarded me along with several others. He would take what he learned in therapy and use it against his wife and friends like me who had no clue about boundaries or narcissism. Turned it all around on everyone else. God forbid he ever take any responsibility for his words and actions. I have no clue if he's different but I remember what my therapist said, "people like that don't ever change much." She's probably right!
Also it is hard when there is kids. I grew up wishing I never knew my dad and my parents were divorced. And I’ve watched my kids be sad and go through abandonment issues when I had to leave their dads. And I had to. I had no choices anymore. He was violent and dangerous. But I would not have taken their father away if he had been safe. You do have to outweigh your options sometimes. And there really is no winning in this type of situation. You just have to do your best. And the kids now are much happier and healthier than they were. I am too. You can’t make their father care to make changes. It’s hella unfortunate, but the kids don’t need to be around abuse or the parents constantly fighting. There has to be a line you draw for yourself, and for your kids.
My narcissistic parents brought me to a psychologist once and they were horrified when the therapist "held them accountable" for their controlling abuse... When they brought me in: they told the shrink that "our son is a problem", and they wanted me "fixed".
“I don’t want to get divorced because of the kids” When I had the courage to leave after 12 years of exhausting all methods to “make it work” with my narc husband, I returned after 9months of separation “for the kids”. I found that the abuse is pointed at me when together but at them in separation. I know details could be helpful but I don’t think it’s needed. What advise do you have for coping with the narc within marriage? I accept what is but still find it to be unbearable at times
I am also having a narcissist husband and we have been married since 13 years and it's getting worse for us how he behaves I am going into depression I need breath and peace totally exhausted. The narcissist are almost like devil
Married 26 years...getting a divorce. Daughters moved out and went no contact with her. Fortunately, the still hang out with me a couple times a week. She has lost her best friend of 30 years. Her mom is still trying, but that woman is a SAINT. Soon to be ex has yet to understand she is the common variable.
No one can help someone who doesn't believe they need help. When for example a narcissist becomes offended and on the war path whenever anyone who is female admits something about their personal inner life when it comes to their own faith. There are so many men like that in this world. That is why in the year 2001 when a college administration offered me free tuition to complete a post secondary program to become a Lutheran minister I said no because I am female from a Roman Catholic background. I don't regret it.
In my case.... i have a WIFE that is an abusive narcissist. Physical, mental, emotional. I'm always wrong (shift blaming)...etc. we have a kid, and we walk on eggshells. You cannot fix a narcissist. What it takes is the other partner has to do EXTREME ACCEPTANCE for those who want to stick with their narcissist partners, meaning don't gaslight, don't expect apologies or thank yous, you will not get sympathy. Everything is your fault no matter what. That's the reality.
You are right, Katy, my parents were married for 20 years until they got divorced, I wish they did it way earlier because it only did a number on me and my siblings, there was physical abuse, they slept in separate bedrooms (how they had many kids I have no idea but I guess sex to them was mechanical and they didn't want to cheat), they barely talked to each other nicely, I mean it was horrible, I physically witnessed my dad punch my mom or my mom hitting my dad with an object. But they say they both stayed because of the kids. Our family today is somewhat estranged. All the siblings are single although they long to be in relationships which we all never have been and I later realized in therapy is because we all are afraid so we're looking for an ideal partner and to be honest sometimes self-sabotage or put up a wall. I am trying to be more at ease with the opposite sex and telling myself not all men are bad and I'm better now but always still think I have a long way still. I hoe to get a partner soon but mainly want to model a healthy relationships and if/when I have kids model a healthy one for them too. But I find the whole thing sad. Tidbit: None of my siblings and I have a good relationship with both parents, there's zero relationship with my dad although we care for him from a distance because he's older/unwell at times and with my mom, everyone relates with her a little bit because few still live with her but the rest who've left like my self are almost estranged. OK this is getting too long. Thanks again,
They r always right, what they do is never wrong. Considered themselves as most perfect person . They need help n money from wife but never lend their hand to wife. Good for outsiders.
I had to break up with a therapist who kept trying to tell me ways to "fix" (i.e. manipulate) my husband. I went back to therapy to get help staying grounded, keeping my sense of self, and not letting some of the gaslights confuse me so much. I used to agree with Kati on staying married because of the kids. But in practice theres a lot more too it, given my mental health diagnoses and his lack thereof. Even though theres nothing but evidence that Ive sought treatment in order to be a better mom and honestly could do a lot more if he werent dragging us down. The courts look at me: major depression, past s*icide attempt, no job (because he wants me home with the kids), in ongoing treatment/therapy and him: no diagnosis, stable employment, very intelligent and well spoken...the courts can see those things differently.
I grew up with a narcissistic father and I really wish my parents got divorced! The fact that my mother decided to stay caused me and my siblings so much trauma!
i’m a self aware person with NPD, i have it because of trauma. the ones i care about i often put first before myself. it would be nice if u said that this video is about a person with npd that DONT want to change (sadly most of us, but some actually wants and do change). i truly wanna change and i have! i’ve actually gotten more peace within myself and relations after gaining more empathy and recognizing my patterns. and it’s so exhausting knowing my first instinct and then feeling bad abt having them, but i don’t act on them anymore. i truly and deeply care about my near ones, and i do things without expecting them to do something for me:) i feel like this video is a bit stereotypical
I don't know who diagnosed you with NPD, I am no one to diagnose one, but what I do know is that every single human being is a self, self is ego, everyone who is a self/ego will have some degree of narcissism, it should not be inferred as a bad thing unless it is excessive and on the higher end of the spectrum. Having high narcissistic traits is what gets one diagnosed with NPD. Narcissism is a spectrum from mild to severe, the way I understand it, our goal throughout life is to work towards the milder end of narcissism as we age and mature. I hope you can find within yourself to believe that you very likely are not a narcissist, rather maybe lean towards the higher end but with work, you will find your balance knowing that having a healthy dose of "narcissism" doesn't make you or anyone of us bad. The word Narcissism being thrown around as 'all things evil' (and believe me, there are several toxic members in both mine and my husband's family) while also labeling everyone a narcissist is not helpful especially for everyone who has some degree of narcissism who are working towards a healthier balance. Hugs, believe in yourself.
I agree on all the point, but the question is also, how do leave a narcissist? I see my mom going thought this and trying to have a agreement and a settlement but it is impossible to have a compromised with him since his word is the only one that matters. The situation is on going for years now and it seems never ending. What is the way to handle this type of personalities when you want to leave them and go on with your life?
It's my son. He exhibits narcissistic personality disorder (diagnosis from a mental health professional). It broke my heart when he shunned his mother and I several years ago. I have not blocked him on any social media, but I stopped responding to his "Head Games" some time ago. I still hear about him via 'Others" but I make no attempt to contact him (with exception of an inheritable health condition a few months ago for which I got a blistering negative response not related to the condition.) I have no fix. I had to simply let go.
The main reason is that she needs to divorce. Her children are learning from their dad without knowing those behaviors are detrimental to them, especially if she has a son. And they will attack their mom and other relationships. My husband learned it from his mom. I didn't know his mom was controlling even though she died. Narcissists are that bad. I was nieve to not to noticed during early in the marriage. My whole marriage life was in their gaslighting drama.
Heres a great rule of thumb. Know this Therapy doesnt work on individuals who are Domination Driven like Covert Narcissists. Therapy takes two people with a teammate mindset. PNarcs are not wired to be cooperative. They are wired to seek and destroy all competitors. They view eveyone within 50 feet of them as competitors. Those Zero Empathy shapeshifting psychopaths are more dangerous than Charles Manson and Jim Jones combined. That means you need to Cut Bait and Eject immediately their noxious traits. It may save you years of psychological Torchure and Monthly Trauma.
2 Tim 3 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, slanderers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness although they have denied its power; avoid such people as these. 6
You can’t fix a narcissist because they think they aren’t broken in the first place.
Exactly.. which is why going to therapy isn't something they are interested in. xoxo
The last couple of years, it's slowly dawned on me that my Dad is a narcissist, and a lot of strain in the family traces back to him. I'm repeatedly astonished at how unwilling he is to admit that he's made mistakes, and continues to make them, even when the strain on the family is so tangible.
@pnwmeditations3835 my dad was one, they are hard to live with..😢
@@hotchocexpresso there are only 2 genders
Yup ❤
There was a movie once where a woman said, "It's better to come from a broken home than to live in one." That has always stuck with me.
What's the movie name ?
@@MehwishKashif-z7u Airport. It's from the late 60s or early 70s.
WOW!
It's important to note that narcissists do not take kindly to being abandoned, so if this commenter decides to leave she should set up her plans quietly in advance. The break-up typically isn't pleasant and easy with a narcissist. They like to be as mean and difficult as possible and try to make you the bad guy. Don't let their tactics get to you. Please have a plan and stay safe
I almost wonder if setting up the breakup in a way that the narcissist thinks it's their idea to split would work? Might be difficult depending on the situation, but maybe that would make the split less problematic. (Obviously this requires some level of being able to manipulate the narcissist, which isn't necessarily easy, but maybe a viable option.)
I agree on “staying in a bad marriage for the children” not being a gift. My parents stayed together way too long and I remember begging my Mom to separate from my Dad..:it did more mental damage to my sibling and I than ever did any good…
Same story. It totally did more damage to me. I don't know what a healthy relationship looks like. I accepted bad behaviors and made too many excuses for toxic people.
🤗❤️🙏
Two of the many things that can make separation complicated a) the risk of poverty for single women is often substantial b) separating often means that a parent will be required to leave their child/ren in the care of the other partner for up to half of their time, without them being there with them - this can be quite a worrying prospect if someone has realised that their partner is not a healthy person.
I left my Narc husband and my kids cheered. 😂❤
@@clairem730growing up in poverty would have been an actual blessing…..
Instead my parents stayed together
“for the kids” made my sister & I lives
a living hell……..
I left my 13 year marriage 4 years ago. My kids are still recovering and healing and so am I. He has not changed one iota, which is to be expected from a narcissist. I have little to no contact with him and the peace it has brought is worth everything. It was hard to step over that threshold of separation as a Christian believing I should stay married, but I changed my view on that. Any toxic marriage, any abuse towards my kids and myself is enough biblical ground to justify leaving.
I admire you so much!!! I wish I had the courage & strength to do it, too. But I don't. No matter how much money I save, how many steps I put into place....I always cave. Mostly because I have a severe chronic pain situation (I had to have a pain pump implanted) and I'm barely able to function as it is. If I took off like I dream of, I would lose my insurance, my home, my everything.
Our kids are grown & have all been encouraging me to leave for years, but they don't understand all of the mitigating factors that clog everything up. And none of them would want, have the space or even afford for me to move in with them (even temporarily).
If only I was strong enough to DO IT. But I'm NOT.
And I am honest enough to admit that. He would NEVER go to counseling; just as this video says, he thinks anything wrong with our marriage/lives/relationship is because of ME. It is "MY FAULT" I am anxious, tense, afraid & unhappy.
I hope & pray that someday either I get enough courage or that he will come to a realization & CHANGE.
And none of the Bible or Jesus has healed your relationship
I was raised by a narcissist and then worked with one. In both cases I eventually bailed. Spent years asking myself what I could have done differently. People would say, well can't you just let it roll off your back? No, not forever, you can't.
Yeah the abusive and manipulative behavior can get to be too much.. and it's better for us to distance ourselves. xoxo
The enablers are also lacking in boundaries and self worth. Typically they haven't uncovered their own stuff in the least and are willing to accept awful behavior. Been there, have friends who remain there.
I stayed married 6 years longer than I should have because I thought it was better for the kids. But once I realized it was better to divorce, I saw that my kids did much better. As I got better so did they. Can’t say the other parent changed, unfortunately but I’m glad I worked on myself.
@@leen894It's fantastic that you broke away in the end though and I'm so pleased that your children improved, which is often the case! 😊
There’s no fixing a Narcissist! Run 🏃♀️
I once dragged my narcissist to a therapist and when we walked out, he yelled at me, "Why did you air our dirty laundry in front of a stranger?" He felt exposed. The whole thing was pointless.
This is so real
My beautiful narc ( low level I think/hope) said same to me just after she started her smear campaign against me. I just looked at my message and paused, (5 mins easy so you narcs that watch can take a fcukin hike) cos I don’t know what else to say. 12 years of research on this and I’m still in the cognitive dissonance phase. It’s mind blowing stuff when you become aware. First vid I’ve seen on this ladies knowledge. I’ve seen vaknin, and most others. Great job on this vid love . 💕. Subscribed x
So ture i feel it
Narcissist are black holes, no mater how much you invest in them to complete them, they will just grab more of your soul until you die .
I nearly said this verbatim to my sister yesterday.
This reminds me of my last marriage it got to the point in couples counseling where she would not look at her stuff, I’m not perfect but I was willing to do anything to make that relationship work. But I had to face the reality that it wasn’t savable, I was devastated!!😢
I'm looking at my sexy almost Boyfriend and thats all I need to look at at the moment 🤤💕
I massively overstayed my welcome in both a high demand religion I was born into, as well as a career that was awful for my mental health. Now, I feel that accepting change and knowing when to give up on something or someone is one of the most important skills you can develop as a human being. It took me a long time to realize that stubbornness isn't inherently a virtue, even if it can help you in certain situations.
💯 Knowing when to “give up” is a very important life skill. Choosing what’s best for you is huge. Congrats on the changes!
This video is like it was made for me! And your advice about getting divorced FOR the kids is exactly what my therapist explained to me, which helped me finally get up the courage to file for divorce from my narc. Both of us came from married parents so I tried everything to "fix" the problems. But he never even tried the one homework assignment from when he went for a few sessions to couples therapy 2 years before I filed. His homework was to write down 3 things he liked about me. He never wrote down one. I'm still in the middle of it with him, because it hurt his ego that I actually filed, but I'm in a separate house and I'm already feeling so much more at peace. Plus, he proved to me that I made the right decision with how he's acted over the last year. I can parent our 2 kids so much better now that I'm not walking on eggshells around him!
I have been married 30 years. This is what I know , maybe I can save someone a few decades.
Just take any question you have and repeat after me.
"He knows. He just doesn't care"
That's it. That's all there is to it.
He understands very well how you feel, he knows the changes you would like him to make, he is aware of who he is and what he is doing and the consequences. He knows what is expected of him as a husband , father and as a man. He is the only one really that truly knows the reality of your relationship.
He doesn't care. And he won't change because it doesn't benefit him to change.
Thank you
Wow, thank you for summing it up so succinctly!
In the beginning we expend so much energy trying to make sense of the situation, be heard, understood and cared about.
Personally, I focus on God to meet my needs and keep interactions with the narcissistic husband to a minimum.
You nailed it!
@@Sandra-bx6yy It is the only way.
Narcissists don’t need fixing, they are perfect the way they are. Everyone else is the problem for not seeing it that way.
(If you couldn’t tell, this was a joke about narcissism)
YOU ARE DAMM RIGHT!
I'm perfect! 🤩
I Love myself so much! 😍
I grew up with a narcissistic father who constantly emotionally, mentally, and physically abused my mother. Listen to Kati… I’ve been in therapy for years now and still unpacking trauma because my mother DIDNT LEAVE HIM
Maybe she didn't leave him because she didn't have the finances to and was scared he would bleed her dry financially fighting for custody in court, smear her name and lie in court to take you away from her
Dealing with a narcissistic father, this video came just in time.
I am so sorry you're dealing with that.. I hope this was helpful. xoxo
My parents divorced when I was 17 and it was a shocking event, since I’d never even seen them fight or have a major disagreement. I was really crushed at the time (but also undiagnosed with clinical depression). However, I’m an adult now and I wish they had split up much sooner. Things were endured that shouldn’t have been, and I feel really bad that they were staying in this completely unfulfilling relationship for my brother’s and my sake. I know they were doing their best and probably thought this was the healthiest way to handle it, but it ended up teaching me to put up with abusive behavior in my relationship. It’s a thousand times better for you to go through a divorce, even though that’s extremely difficult (I also got married very young and that ended in divorce, so I’m looking at this from both sides) than accidentally teaching your children that it’s ok to put up with narcissistic behavior. I feel for the person who wrote this comment, I really do, but I also really hope they get out. ❤
100% agree on your take on divorce and not staying together for the kids. When my parents actually started divorce proceedings, it was such a relief, because it had become pure hell to be in the house up until that point.
I really love these deep dive videos where you share your years of expertise and insight into specific mental questions.
My whole life I had been dealing with narcissists and I wish they rename, this twisted emotions condition, as it deserves better and more descriptive name.
Narcissism is actually not about people who are in love with themselves, but a total opposite.
They are patologicaly sensitive, deeply wounded people, emotionaly or the other way rejected people by the primarily care givers.
They are broken, unnoticed people who hasn't received love and haven't been nurtured as a kids. They don't know how real love and care feels, hence they have nothing to give as they have been starved of love , attention, gentle touch as a little kids.
It is also a family curse. It is difficult to snap out of that pattern and to make sense of their disturbed, interupted upbringing.
It took almost lifetime therapy to understand and make sense why I have had every mental illness under the sun and why I merry a Narciso. Because I could only relate to that type of man as I understood only their "language" and their behavior.
I also have noticed something about narcissist. I am of impression that all Narcisos are on the autistic spectrum. Having said so I don't believe that all autistic people are narcks.
I'd love to live and see if reserch is going to be done on it.
Anyhow, I feel now, that my mother and her mother and my ex, who are no more, what is frankly speaking so reliving ( I feel guilt and shame to say so), they were just the victims of their ancestral victims. There is my sister who is still alive to remind me what Narcissism feels like. Just, that I don't forget!!!!! Braking the long chain of victimhood is not easy matter .
My "saving grace" and the curse at the same time was the therapy that I mentioned and non narcissistic father who showed me what real and unconditional parental love looks like.
For the people who had both narcissistic parents I believe there is no cure.
This was a great video! Full of lots of great advice and not just about narcissism. So many nuggets of wisdom that I wish people would hear! I do have kids and completely agree with your stance. Healthy relationships is far better than a toxic family environment! The problem of course is that the toxic parent will reek havoc on the healthy parent trying to do things in a healthy way. Not being together at least can keep those fights and disagreements to text or phone calls so the kids don’t hear and witness it as much. I’ve been through it all and life is wayyyyyyyy better on the other side. Good luck to anyone considering splitting from the unhealthy relationship and forging your own path! ❤
I did couples counseling. It’s always made things worse. It’s a blame game full of lies. ALWAYS. NEVER. AGAIN.
I like what you said when you said our reaction to that addict is a part of the problem. Because that’s a key component in healing. I’m at this stage of letting go.
Child of a parent who didn’t want to get divorced because of the kids here (and 2 narcissistic parents) 🖐🏻 I can confirm that my mom sticking around for our sake only made me and my siblings grow up around a toxic environment which fed a lot into my GAD and general unhealthy way of looking at life that’s made it’s way into my adulthood and I’m working on now in therapy. Divorces are hard, but if my mom had stayed with my father longer, life would have been harder and things would have been worse.
Thank you! every video you make is a new chance for us to rethink about our lives and how to cope with it better.
I find when I stayed in prolong situations with personality disorderd people that I became reactive and toxic myself. Crazy making behavior is exhausting and unnecessary to stick around for.
And how do you think they got so damaged in the first place?
I for example got sick because of years of bullying from people who call themself "healthy".
Everyone ist toxic in one way or another. Cause everyone gets blind for their own mistakes and instead blames other people.
Key to turn down this cycle is accepting that everyone isn't flawless and that YOU aren't an exception. So be honest with other people and have the courage to tell them what they are doing wrong and why, cause this way you are giving them at least a chance to change. But also be honest whit yourself and reflect your behaivor yourself.
If you only blame the "other party" you are toxic yourself.
@@jasminschmalzl9734 Someone's mad and lashing out because she feels threatened by the idea that somebody won't put up with her abusive behavior.
This is wonderful Katie! I think a good aside for dealing with addict behavior is to know the difference between someone who is dry and someone who is sober. It sounds like this spouse, like my former spouse, is dry. He was incredibly abusive. My younger brother is sober. I'm proud of him. He's so healthy and we're closer than ever!
It took me years to understand what was happening to me in my relationship with my wife. The contolling, her saying to me I love you you are the best, only to immediately put me down...talk about confusing, me confronting her about her attitude about me only for her to say you deserve better..Ill do better and her to do so for about a week but then return to nasty. My wife would contantly ask me to do for her but when i asked for the smallest thing in return she wouldnt do it. If i denied her request she'd make me feel bad. I used to say to her..."Its your world i just live in it"...and she'd lose her mind. I always knew it wasnt right. Id feel alone and ashamed that i did so much for a person that one day would praise me but for two weeks after treat me like crap. She'd threaten divorce, take the kids and child support as a means if control. It would keep me in constant fear and I'd do more for her to get her to stop with the nonsense.
However something happened. Our kids are now adults. She no longer has that power. Therefore, when she asks for the outrageous i tell her no. When she demeans me, i push back. When she threatens divorce, I tell her to go do it..see if i care. If she gives me the cold shoulder i make sure Im always up in her face. I think on some level i understood that she was playing games, but i knew i had to play the long game with her. Was it healthy? No..not at all. However, I simply was not going to give up on my kids. My parents divorced. Being a kid from that divorce, I was not going to have my kids not have their dad in their life. I heard what was said in the video, but that a divorce was not in the cards. I simply realized that Id regain my power when the kids got older. After so many years of the abuse, her shots dont really mean much anymore. In fact, while she does still do her crap she knows it does nothing. Therefore, she gives up and is nicer to me. Whenever she gets nasty, I let her talk to herself and not me. I dont give in and she gives up.
Its terrible. Its disgusting and not healthy. I recognize that and most likely this will come to an end, but for now i know how to control it from destroying who I am.
Your responses are suspect.
@@brendarewan7441 Nothing suspect at all. Those are the facts. It is what it is. I'd imagine others understand it as well as there are 10 thumbs up on the post.
@@RodT87totally understand it. Absolutely.
Same here. I’m in my car now to get away and enjoy some time away. I am going to do my own thing. I’m retired and said I’d be here for him, but I am drowning. I’m gonna find my own life. I will still make sure he is ok- he’s older- but I’m done with trying to do things together. E keeps pushing me away, but wants me to help with his needs, but not mine. I prayed and I felt like the Lord told me to let go. So when he gets upset over nothing- I walk away. I’m not gonna defend myself or try to wonder what he’s thinking and try to understand. I’m just gonna walk away.😅
You are a strong minded person. I give you props for finding a way to stay with a narcissist. My husband is one and I’m still trying to find a way to help him. Thanks for your honesty and advice! I’ve learned a thing or two when I read about your situation.
Please make a video for the spouses of narcissistic partner, particularly covert narcissists & how can that be survived until someone decides about what to do with the marriage!
Great video Kati! I agree that it's in the best interest for the children to divorce, for all the reasons you shared. It's a very personal decision and has so much potential to cause feelings of guilt, doubt, and fear, despite having tried everything to have a healthy relationship. I was told I was a quitter at that time in my life, and I now can see how that stuck with me over the years. It actually contributed to my staying stuck with a narcissist much longer than I should have.
I feel for the children of these parents; most people spend more time trying to decide which pizza toppings to get than to deciding to have put a new life into existence. In the end the children of such parents will end up traumatised and in therapy for life. Obviously, there are exceptions, but exceptions are rare. If you are not happy, how can you expect your kids to be.
Facts!!! 💯
Well sadly it will affect the children in the long term they will experience trauma it will be toxic and think this is ok so I would divorce for overall health for everyone well being.
I got told more often than not I should first think, then decide, then act. So I really have no idea why people make such a fuss about it now, if I actually do exaxtly what they told me to do🤷
And when I do decide on my pizza topings while making HARD and WORLDSHAKING decisions, why not?
Also: pizza topings ARE important.
Cause...
"You can try to resist!
Try to hide from its kiss!
But you know, but you know that yoooou
Can't fight the Pizza!🍕
Deep in the dark, you'll surrender your heart!
But you know, but you know that yooou...
Can't fight the Pizza!🍕
Noooo...
You can't fight iiit...
It's gonna get to your heart...🍕💕
And Belly!🫄
It's noting but a fact dude.
Also. I hope for YOU that on my pizza are only topings I like! If not I will change the brand. Cause I don't like giving this big of a complaint for noting!
Thank you Katie I appreciated the example of an anchor. I definitely can relate.
You can't fix them unfortunately the best way to deal with it is leave and go no contact
Diagnosed with ASPD-NPD. And truth is you cant save them. Therapy and personal effort can,you can only help at the times. I just been with person who again had same line ''I wanna save you''. I laughed a bit i said : ''No,you cant. But i can.''
There are few things that can bring as much happiness as marriage, and one of them is divorce. Specifically divorce from a narcissist. Seeing my mother embrace the peace and quiet and freedom after staying in a marriage for us kids (till we grew up and left home) has been the most beautiful thing, for the 30 years afterwards she would mention how she enjoys the quiet freedom every single day if someone would bring it up. As someone who's parents stayed together for us, don't bother, it's better for your kids to see you happy as individuals than to see you together.
Hello Kati, I was recently introduced to the term Affective Responsibility and I have watched a bunch of videos, Ted talks and even podcasts about it, I'd like to see you talking about it. That'd be an awesome video content. Hope you have a great day!
Thanks for the video idea!! I will check that term out.. I am not familiar with it. xoxo
When you have to tell yourself that you're staying in it for the kids, ask yourself that again and really evaluate. I completely agree with what you've said in the video, Kati. I grew up with a narcissistic dad. I grew up believing that his behaviour was normal and what I should look for in a future partner. I grew up learning from the relationship he had with my mum... which of course bleeds into the family structure... poisoning each and every one of us. My first relationship was with a narcissist, believing that it was the only way to be loved. Kids watch and they learn. For me, it took years and years of recovering and unlearning.
Being with my ex narc for the past 8 yrs. made me observe this very pattern. I think they wanted to feel very important in a way that is disturbing. Instead of building trust with their intimate partners, they destroy the trust that they built with you (in that case lying when they tried to put you in their pedestal). Once they have a committed partner, they can’t stand being loved authentically by one person. Instead they go on and prey on other women that is susceptible to their love bombing. My ex narc was a compulsive pursuer in a relationship. He would go back and forth to the women he were involved before or try to meet women in complicated situation so that going public isn’t an option while having you as their main supply. In the end they destroy the very person that loved them. They are like toddlers testing your love for them. Showing and telling them you love them isn’t enough, they will cheat on your face to make you feel inadequate even if you are more than they deserve. They want to test your love for them so they keep hurting you and when you have enough of their abuse, you leave. Then they tell you, ‘you never loved me because you abandon me’. Well in fact it’s their actions and narcissistic behavior that made you leave or in other cases they discard you and will give silly reasons of the discard. Mine would use, ‘she’s crazy’, ‘she’s a nega-star’, ‘she insults me’, ‘she cheated on me’ et al. So with this pattern of infidelities and emotional abuse (who knows what else) it’s better to walk away. I did walk away and is now rebuilding my life with our daughter. We are struggling financially because I’m not earning enough to provide for my daughter but now we get to laugh and bring with us sunshine every day. No lies, no abuse and no fake love. We only live once, forgive yourself and move forward but never forget the lesson that narc abuse taught you. That is to respect yourself to walk away from what’s hurting and destroying you. That you deserve a life of solitude, happiness and love. Hugs*** :) Additionally I got to know about my narc husband bad ways when I reach out to a private detective digitalinvestigate@gmail.com for help he did a perfect work for me I can see everything he’s doing on his device.
Why should you care what he is doing on his device? You haven’t moved forward.
No., They won’t go to couples therapy to escape accountability. They KNOW that a third party will have a jaw dropping reaction from some of the s*** they do. My Honey Bunny, just didn’t show up at the appointment! Is it avoidance when one person doesn’t even show up? Pathetic.
Yes! Literally my husband to a t. He was a jerk to me this morning. I keep telling him put yourself in my shoes. Trying to teach him empathy on why what he did was wrong. He took a shower then came down and apologized and then a few minutes later tried to convince me that it was my fault.
I was the glue - I met all my children's needs. It was me and them - husband detached. I was so stuck on never breaking up the family until my children were adults - then I had to pull the pin. I came from a broken family and abusive step-father and I didn't want that for me children. I don't know if husband was narcissistic (my father, and step-father were) BUT he was very passive aggressive and rarely was part of our family. He always said he was too busy with his job. So I ran the show, and if he was there a bonus for the kids.
So many wonderful impulses within this video!
I also had to learn that nothing changes if only one part of the relationship works on it. For me it was the relationship with my father. To learn that he is a narcissist started my healing process. I still can see how growing up in a family with a person with NPD deeply affected me.
From the child perspective I remember how I wished early on my parents would divorce. Peace was everything I wanted and I thought divorce would help that. Later on I even spoke open with my parents about it, repeatedly. That's why I deeply agree with the statement that divorce for the kids can be a reasonable decision. I also respect if someone does not want to divorce or even that there are situations when divorce is dangerous. The possible danger is something I did not understand as a child.
Although the children are quite young, I just wanted to bring up the thought that the relationships we witness in our parents and have ourselves with our parents affect us from day 1. That's another reason for me to agree on the thought of divorce for the children. Yes, we can learn healthy and stable relationships even after experiencing narcissistic abuse, but we always have to spent a second thought or use more selfreflection. It feels like remaining to be more prone to some unhealthy influences than people learning healthy relationships right from the beginning.
Unfortunately the children of the person asking are too young for the thoughts followingly explained. I still wanted to share these thoughts, maybe it is helpful for someone else.
Talking to the children about their thoughts and wishes in a manner that does not disturb the children could be helpful. Maybe it could be kind of a general talk about "how are you feeling about our family?" "what do you like about us as a family?" "what don't you like?" "what would you like to be changed?" "How could that possibly be changed?"
It surely is difficult to get to know how children think about something like that without suggesting anything, disturbing or scaring them. But it might be helpful for the parent's own thoughts and decisions regarding divorce to get a feeling of their children's perspective on it.
Still, if there is any chance of danger coming from the partner when he gets to know of conversations like this, it should not be done.
My parents stuck together for 30 years for “us kids.” Finally separated when I was in college (I am the youngest).
Neither of us ever got married or had a family of our own. We’re in our fifties now.
So, your parents staying together allowed you to go to college and prevented hunger and homelessness? 🤔
Well that was a personal choice, basing your life off failed parents was foolish.
I had the same problem (but resolved it differently) - I feel you. I'm sorry for some of the unempathetic replies.
Child of parents who stayed together and are extremely toxic - together and as individuals. I pray everyday even as an almost 26 year old woman they get divorced. Still finding ways to cope with how they have and continue to treat me to this day. Divorce is better than disrespect.
As a child of divorce, get a divorce for the kids like Kati says. I got to watch my parents marriage fall apart, but they did it behind closed doors and it fucked me and my brother up. I'm still figuring out how to have healthy relationships.
I have been on a relationship with a narcissist for 3 months and half. It’s been one year she broke up with me (cuz I was the problem… according to her) but I still ruminate a lot on it. She even blamed me for issues she had with transport when we were seeing each other which was very rare, for some reason she didn’t want to see me that much but still pretended she loved me, without never saying it, unlike me by the way.
After looking it up, I realized I suffered from emotional abuse with her and my therapist also thinks she’s got real problems and he’s trying to reassure me because she brainwashed me so much by making me feel guilty for her own responsibility or problems that for a long time, I thought part of the situation was my fault, that I should have just shut up and not bring up the problems within our relationship. She used to make me go through the silent treatment a lot, verbal violence, lashing out on me on a regular basis for no reason, like when I was simply asking questions about what she intended to do during the summer for instance… I think she had chronic anger and chronic sarcasm, she was being really mean through sarcasm, which was the most hurtful thing I’ve ever experienced when talking to someone. Having someone make fun of you with such meanness is just the worst, especially when you have tons of feelings for them. @katimorton could you make a video about how we can love someone who is a horrible person? Cuz the one thing I can't get through in my mind is how and why did I love soooo much someone who was that terrible and hurtful with me, especially when there weren't even good moments, I mean they were good moments but they were very rare.
My experience is the reason why I started making mental health education videos as well (in French), because I want to help anyone experiencing similar situations, traumas and just help people be happier in their lives by having more clarity on what’s going on within their relationships and internal life.
You CAN go to therapy - with someone else. I took a parent but didn't realise she tried to set it up in advance...(they knew the therapist beforehand but didn't tell me!) Luckily she was not successful as the therapist was very professional. Hence she refused to return & started lying about me AND the therapist instead. This was the reality check I needed to face the fact they didn't want anything to change & wanted to continue scapegoating me instead - forever. I was stunned.
My sister was 11 when i was born, our parents finally divorced when i was 3.
I never wished to be born, living was HELL because my mom was a horrible mom and my dad was a horrible dad. I grew up with divorced parents and i didn't know what actually happened, and i was only told recently (im 27). My big sister have NO memories from childhood at all, her best friend who lived with us, often recall memories and ask my sister "oh do you remember that time when this happened" and my sister can only remember people or places but she have no memories of school, birthdays, free time activities, nothing.
I don't know the specifics but i know both my parents have admitted that they fought and yelled a lot and my mom threw half the kitchen on the floor once (prob when they decided to divorce), our home was not safe at all for anyone really.
My dad tried to go from my mom more then once but she held it together, she did EVERYTHING she could to HOLD the family together, until my dad told her that he had another girlfriend and he wanted to marry her and divorce my mom..... I don't know this lady it didn't hold for long, i don't really care. I am glad i did not grow up like my sister did, i might be broken, but i am aware of how toxic relationships look like and i have luckily not fallen into any long lasting relationships that are toxic like my sister did, and i am so sorry for her not really understanding not really knowing because she only started healing recently, after divorcing her alcoholic husband, failing every job or education she tried, and broke down to an unhealthy place with two kids being her only light, until she met her new boyfriend - she is getting help finally and I'm so proud of her she is doing way better
I went to therapy on my own for years when I was married. Were together for two decades. The most she ever game me with one therapist was 5 sessions. And even then she shut down and didn't engage. The other therapists we tried lasted for one or two sessions only. Yet I was always the problem lol. Yeah, this resonates with me. It was like pulling teeth to get her to go to therapy. She even walked out of the first session with one therapist, a highly regarded therapist that utilized the framework that she endorsed. My ex wife may not qualify for a diagnosis of NPD, but she sure has narcissistic tendencies. Getting a divorce was unwanted and painful, but I could not be a healthy person being tied to someone who was so selfish and invulnerable. Marriage is a system that requires all parts to work together. Great video.
People talk about reasons known to describe abusers in marriages, but there are so many risks that no one has ever mentioned.
Some research needs be done on the unreported world of evil partners.
Resit the wrong doers with backups. Some appear like organised crimes.
How can four different people do the same things to four other people in different locations?.
Why same techniques ?.
My parents divorced when I was 3. I grew up thinking it didn't matter, or even made me net superior. In reality I now realize it caused a lot of problems, particularly with how they were afterwards.
I may have met one real narcissist in my life. It’s rare. Most aholes are just aholes. But mainly I wanted to thank you for the river analogy bc it made me think.
As much as I see the recognize the concept of divorcing for the sake of the kids, I also think it is very important to educate the children somehow on the concept of divorce and/or separation. Imagine one day remembering sitting on your father’s lap or spending time with him, and next thing you know, you’re consistently asking your mother or parent when you’re going to see your father/other parent again. That gap in communication and apprehensive approach can affect the child(ren) adversely too, like how staying together in a toxic relationship for the children would affect them all adversely as well, especially attachment styles and how they view interpersonal relationships to certain extents. I love your videos and am so inspired by you to this day as I am in my second year of my program as well! P.S. I saw that consent dance short on Caleb’s page, and I totally vibed with how you move and dance 😝✨ much love! 🫶
Thi is a really somber video to a very difficult topic. I am glad my partner is not always easy and we do have our rough times, but we went to couples therapy and it saved our relationship. I hope the person who wrote this question will find a way to live a good life for herself and her kids.
I not married to the narricist but I help take care of my sister who is. It is hard because I can't just walk away from her. She can't take care of herself.
I swear. I am so thankful for you therapists and also you therapists on youtube. My in person therapy is awesome but sometimes it is so cool to kinda hear the theory behind some of the advices or so u get... And i have been now 6 years in therapy. And finally reached a point where i really feel i know how to at least indirectly control my negative emotions. What parts play a role in the way how i feel. And that really seems like a superpower now... In some weird sense that even makes me feel ok about the 6 educations i had to quit and the years of struggle. Bc otherwise i might have never worked on these things... Idk... It's cool in a way :)
Kati you are so sweet and kind cause I was so mad at the commenter! 😂 I think what irked me was this air of moral superiority and in some ways co dependant, people pleasers can sometimes have narcissistic traits themselves. Your advice was so spot on and delivered with so much care and love! Also thank you for being such an amazing representation for people without children, because too many people with children have such fragile egos and don’t want to hear how they are harming their children!
As a child of divorced parents, I can see an argument for both staying and leaving. My parents didn't divorce until my younger brother was out of high school (I was 20), and it wasn't a shock to me at all. I knew something was off; they didn't seem very close with each other, or "in love", as I saw with my mom and her new partner.
They did a good job of keeping their issues and most arguments away from us kids though, but I always wonder what it would be like if they had separated when we were little. Perhaps I would have seen a better example of a relationship and/or how to handle dating.
I totally agree with your view on the situation regarding the children. My parents got divorced when I was 11. And yes, it was much better to learn about relationships, happiness, etc. - yes, it wasn’t easy - but it was so much better than to live a lie. Children KNOW that the relationship of their parents is not good, is unhealthy, is hurting each other or all of the family….it’s absurd that parents think they can hide their problems and create an illusion of a happy family.
Yeah, went through this in a short "situation-ship". After about two months when the person that she was and the one that she pretended to be were so different, it was hard for me to understand. I suggested we go to therapy, mentioned not as a couple, since we were just starting off but her behaviour was killing me internally and I thought it might be helpful for both, but she kept mentioning that she doesn't need it because she's not "crazy". Even though the whole thing ended in about 3 months, it left me feeling like crap for a while. In hindsight, it opened up my eyes about these kind of people and why I was "attracting" them. So I got something out of the mess.
Everything u said is exactly what my husband does & this whole video made me cry the whole time cause I know this has to end but I want to get thru this but he doesn't care.. so now im at the point where what am I to do now. My heath is declining because of this. My boys are 23 & 21 and I should've stayed gone when I left him , 20 times. Now my boys have resentment towards their dad & relationship problems.. i always would talk to them about what would be going on but yrs ago we all thought he was bipolar A & B.... But i figured out a year ago, its not that... Hes a full blown narcissist. And it breaks my heart.
Great analogy with the river & anchor. Also for the recipient (me) of the toxic behaviour & learning that my reactions & behaviour twds can also be toxic.
I am just learning over the last few months about this stuff & most recently about BPD.
I am unsure if my gf is bpd or narcissistic but there appear to be many many traits. She comes from a background with trauma.
I find all of this very confusing the more i dig into it but also helpful at the same time.
It seems that at times she knows there are issues for her to deal with. She does go to therapy from time to time but, rarely takes responsibility & often feels like therapy is only teaching her that i’m the bad guy.
She lies about a lot of things & if i call her out on it, he’ll on wheels comes barrelling twds me & as ya’ll know i’m the bad guy again. It’s not her lies, only my reaction to it.
I know what you mean about lies and reactions. My wife started therapy about two years ago. She has always had her version of things to which I mostly shrugged off even when her version put me in a bad light. I would typically apologize and try to do different so as not to make her upset. As her therapy continued, our relationship has only gotten worse, to a point that it was very difficult to ignore and to which she would say things, do things, accuse me of things that were simply not true. Things that I found myself unwilling to apologize for as they were not true. Things that sometimes she had actually done herself and then would shift it on to me as if I had done them. Fast forward a little over a year, and the therapist that seemed to only be enabling her behavior decided that he could not help her and referred her to a more specialized therapist. The new therapist suggested couples therapy in addition to personal therapy, unlike the first one. I agreed to go as I was desperate for things to get better. After going to couples therapy for several months, it was suggested that I should see the therapist for personal therapy as well. I agreed, of course, as I just wanted things to get better. Fast forward even more, we are no longer going to couples therapy as my wife decided that it simply was not working and that the therapist was taking my side. I had no idea of narcissistic traits or that shifting the blame had a name; projection. We are now separated and my wife is threatening to also quit going to her personal therapy. She seems to only contact me when she needs something or wants to fight. I am having difficulty with feelings, confusion, sense of self-worth, etc. from stuffing things inside for all these years, I am told. I am still going to therapy to try and make sense of it all. Of being in a toxic relationship (therapist's words) for over 38 years. I feel lost, unsure of everything and am now being told that I should go no contact with my wife. Part of me can see what I am being told, part of me just can't figure out how things got so bad, part of me doesn't know how or if I have the strength to go on at times.
I feel for you and honestly hope things will get better for you.
@@rogerwhoareyou hey roger, thank you for replying and sharing. What i’ve learned the last several wks from YT vids is that there’s many different perspectives out there & one in particular is that with professionals with a lot of bpd experience seem to all agree that it is one the most misdiagnosed & overlooked disorders by other professionals without bpd experience & backgrounds.
I have only had a handful of counselling sessions in my lifetime, all within last couple yrs. We did couples sessions roughly 6 or so times, we both liked our sessions & agreed it was helping. Then a few days before a session an issue came up, totally her doing but i was blamed yelled at & hung up on while only trying to discuss the issue for 3 days straight .. she said she wasn’t going back. I kept the appt to explain to counsellor what had transpired(thinking in back of my mind this was the perfect situation for this stuff to start coming out to the light to an unbiased 3rd party & maybe start getting somewhere) i showed him txt msgs of a back & forth over that period between us to which he replied, “yah she totally avoiding responsibility & gas lighting you. i’m so sorry you’re going through this”. that was about 11mo ago. We nvr went back & here we are, she just moved out last mo.
I didn’t understand what was happing for the last 6.5yrs + all i could see was the behaviour & patterns. I always thought it was just unresolved anger issues & always thought that logic & reason would win out.
Only recently 6wks, have i learned about these disorders & what was actually going on in our relationship. It’s frightening & helpful at same time. There are a lot of great people both professionally & personally having it, posting vids about this
disorder. It’s helped
me find compassion when previously only resentment & confusion,bitterness(for the most part).
It’s only been 2 sessions but i requested through same organization of our couples counselling someone with a BDP background & it so far is helpful with their insights. One thing she told
me was that she can spot bpd a mile away & that in my case anyway is the reason we see it & no one else does is partially because they “wear a mask” around all the time & feel comfortable enough around their FP to take it off at times.
I’m not sure what to say other than hang in there & maybe try someone with bpd background(if
you haven’t already) as she said it only takes about 4-5 one on one sessions for the person with the disorder to start showing the symptoms during sessions as they become more
comfortable with her.
Things got so bad because we always want to help & i know myself, my glass is typically half full, always think that things could change once she figures out what’s actually going on. I may be delusional & fooling myself, we have 2 small kids & i am going to exhaust everything i have into trying to fix things. It could be a lost
cause but i know i have to try before i completely walk away now knowing what i know. One thing i do know is that we need counselling also.
These last few wks has been kind of a mind f&@!k as i find myself continually going back into the relationship past “oh yeah she said this & that before” where i’d before think of it as just her being dramatic to now realizing it was a piece to this large puzzle.
I feel for you Roger and hope peace is found for all of us, you somewhere someday!!
i would also add a couple wks after learning more one night she was really calm & i asked her about when she cancelled sessions between us if she remembered why or what the disagreement was. (super rare moment but she also knew she was moving out) She said she remembers being really angry and we were fighting but not what the argument was about.
The truth is, i wasn’t fighting or arguing with her about anything only trying to calmly & rationally talk to her while i took her abuse for three days in a row before i just dropped it. I asked her if she thought it was odd the she didn’t remember the reason she cancelled counselling sessions to which she replied in a slightly more irritated tone, yes i sometimes block things out! I’m not 100% certain if she was telling me the truth in that moment or just didn’t want to revisit what she’d done. But thought the reply was interesting nonetheless.
Also during my last session with couples counsellor(11mo ago) i told him i documented everything but wasn’t sure why, he quickly cut me off saying “you do it to keep your sanity “ and also learned through these videos that it’s quite normal behaviour to document from someone who is being gaslighted.
Would love more content surrounding the varying narcissist relationships (narcissist in laws, parents, siblings, etc)
❤Narcissism is nothing more than
Pride. It's the behavior of a person that has dealt with some type of emotional/physical trauma or abuse that has created a high level of fear within them that they continue to carry... So to keep from being vulnerable and being hurt again by anyone (as they felt in their past)... they have created a wall (Pride). Silent treatment, lack of empathy/love, never being wrong, etc... is nothing more than Pride keeping their emotions intact to not look weak (they promised themselves they would never be again by ANYone). Even after their downfall, it's still hard for them to change. It's all Fear based. And until they address those fears, they will never be able to become vulnerable enough to show humility. Humility is what cures Narcissism (1st John-4:18)... Hurt people, hurt people.
Very insightful!
I didn’t know my partner was a narcissist when we went to couples counseling and the therapist didn’t understand that there was abuse in our relationship, he said our problems weren’t that bad, and was siding with my partner a lot, completely not understanding what was really going on. He only saw the facade my partner was keeping up. My partner would then use therapy as a way to manipulate and abuse me further
Sadly I was with a narcissist meaning I worked with one sometimes she confused me I knew it was manipulative on her part sometimes she became moody sadly overtime she became abusive towards me because yes I called her out what she was doing yes she put it back on me that’s my fault I had it enough because yes I felt I was walking on eggshells with her so it’s a fact narcissists can’t be fixed and don’t want to be fixed the the most miserable and unhappy people in this world and anyone that’s friends or with them in a relationship with them or even a family with the narcissist I seriously get out the former narcissist I was around really affected me and drained me badly am still recovering from the emotional and verbally abuse exactly it won’t ever get better if you stay with the narcissist of any kind😢!
Amazing video!
Could you do one in Covert narcissist? Maybe even the difference between them
That would be awesome
I grew up with people who stayed together for the kids. It was awful. Get divorced for the kids!
Agreed! I think sometimes we just don't see how our unhealthy marriage is affecting our children. xoxo
Yes!
What is the perfect age for me to divorce. Our child is only 4 and think the world of us even though things are not good.
Often divorce does not fix the problem.
@Rich72James...Where did you get that? Describe a senario that makes any sense of what you said.
I have sympathy...for anyone who is married to one...I have for 41 year...at last I am moving away...best thing....because they will not change..or admit there wrong...
I used to know a couple and the husband was in therapy for cptsd. He was an insidious emotionally abusive narcissist. He devalued and discarded me along with several others. He would take what he learned in therapy and use it against his wife and friends like me who had no clue about boundaries or narcissism. Turned it all around on everyone else. God forbid he ever take any responsibility for his words and actions. I have no clue if he's different but I remember what my therapist said, "people like that don't ever change much." She's probably right!
😅
Also it is hard when there is kids. I grew up wishing I never knew my dad and my parents were divorced. And I’ve watched my kids be sad and go through abandonment issues when I had to leave their dads. And I had to. I had no choices anymore. He was violent and dangerous. But I would not have taken their father away if he had been safe. You do have to outweigh your options sometimes. And there really is no winning in this type of situation. You just have to do your best. And the kids now are much happier and healthier than they were. I am too. You can’t make their father care to make changes. It’s hella unfortunate, but the kids don’t need to be around abuse or the parents constantly fighting. There has to be a line you draw for yourself, and for your kids.
My narcissistic parents brought me to a psychologist once and they were horrified when the therapist "held them accountable" for their controlling abuse... When they brought me in: they told the shrink that "our son is a problem", and they wanted me "fixed".
Good on the perceptive and intelligent, not to mention brave, therapist for pointing out the truth and I wish there were a lot more like that one! 👏
“I don’t want to get divorced because of the kids”
When I had the courage to leave after 12 years of exhausting all methods to “make it work” with my narc husband, I returned after 9months of separation “for the kids”. I found that the abuse is pointed at me when together but at them in separation. I know details could be helpful but I don’t think it’s needed. What advise do you have for coping with the narc within marriage? I accept what is but still find it to be unbearable at times
Getting a divorce isn’t quitting, you need to put your own mental health first and your children’s by leaving.
I am also having a narcissist husband and we have been married since 13 years and it's getting worse for us how he behaves I am going into depression I need breath and peace totally exhausted.
The narcissist are almost like devil
Married 26 years...getting a divorce. Daughters moved out and went no contact with her. Fortunately, the still hang out with me a couple times a week. She has lost her best friend of 30 years. Her mom is still trying, but that woman is a SAINT. Soon to be ex has yet to understand she is the common variable.
No one can help someone who doesn't believe they need help. When for example a narcissist becomes offended and on the war path whenever anyone who is female admits something about their personal inner life when it comes to their own faith. There are so many men like that in this world. That is why in the year 2001 when a college administration offered me free tuition to complete a post secondary program to become a Lutheran minister I said no because I am female from a Roman Catholic background. I don't regret it.
Marriage contract is most important deal! Unfortunately law of marriage contract is crime!!!!
Very good presentation...the 50 % that is the problem have a built in defense because they are never wrong. How do you ever penetrate that?
In my case.... i have a WIFE that is an abusive narcissist. Physical, mental, emotional. I'm always wrong (shift blaming)...etc. we have a kid, and we walk on eggshells. You cannot fix a narcissist. What it takes is the other partner has to do EXTREME ACCEPTANCE for those who want to stick with their narcissist partners, meaning don't gaslight, don't expect apologies or thank yous, you will not get sympathy. Everything is your fault no matter what. That's the reality.
You are right, Katy, my parents were married for 20 years until they got divorced, I wish they did it way earlier because it only did a number on me and my siblings, there was physical abuse, they slept in separate bedrooms (how they had many kids I have no idea but I guess sex to them was mechanical and they didn't want to cheat), they barely talked to each other nicely, I mean it was horrible, I physically witnessed my dad punch my mom or my mom hitting my dad with an object. But they say they both stayed because of the kids. Our family today is somewhat estranged. All the siblings are single although they long to be in relationships which we all never have been and I later realized in therapy is because we all are afraid so we're looking for an ideal partner and to be honest sometimes self-sabotage or put up a wall. I am trying to be more at ease with the opposite sex and telling myself not all men are bad and I'm better now but always still think I have a long way still. I hoe to get a partner soon but mainly want to model a healthy relationships and if/when I have kids model a healthy one for them too. But I find the whole thing sad. Tidbit: None of my siblings and I have a good relationship with both parents, there's zero relationship with my dad although we care for him from a distance because he's older/unwell at times and with my mom, everyone relates with her a little bit because few still live with her but the rest who've left like my self are almost estranged. OK this is getting too long. Thanks again,
They r always right, what they do is never wrong. Considered themselves as most perfect person . They need help n money from wife but never lend their hand to wife. Good for outsiders.
I had to break up with a therapist who kept trying to tell me ways to "fix" (i.e. manipulate) my husband. I went back to therapy to get help staying grounded, keeping my sense of self, and not letting some of the gaslights confuse me so much.
I used to agree with Kati on staying married because of the kids. But in practice theres a lot more too it, given my mental health diagnoses and his lack thereof. Even though theres nothing but evidence that Ive sought treatment in order to be a better mom and honestly could do a lot more if he werent dragging us down. The courts look at me: major depression, past s*icide attempt, no job (because he wants me home with the kids), in ongoing treatment/therapy and him: no diagnosis, stable employment, very intelligent and well spoken...the courts can see those things differently.
Got raised by narcissist, got married to a narcissist.. is problem with me, getting stuck again into same situation
People like familiar situations and since you were raised by a narcissist it is familiar and even comforting.
So relatable!
Im done ✅
So done but I haven’t had the guts to tell him because of his reactions either mad angry or sad and depressed anxious and paranoid..
I grew up with a narcissistic father and I really wish my parents got divorced! The fact that my mother decided to stay caused me and my siblings so much trauma!
It's really hard when you live with a narcissistic mother-in-law and you can't really do anything about it.
I agree with you, we need divorce for kids.
i’m a self aware person with NPD, i have it because of trauma. the ones i care about i often put first before myself. it would be nice if u said that this video is about a person with npd that DONT want to change (sadly most of us, but some actually wants and do change). i truly wanna change and i have! i’ve actually gotten more peace within myself and relations after gaining more empathy and recognizing my patterns. and it’s so exhausting knowing my first instinct and then feeling bad abt having them, but i don’t act on them anymore. i truly and deeply care about my near ones, and i do things without expecting them to do something for me:) i feel like this video is a bit stereotypical
I don't know who diagnosed you with NPD, I am no one to diagnose one, but what I do know is that every single human being is a self, self is ego, everyone who is a self/ego will have some degree of narcissism, it should not be inferred as a bad thing unless it is excessive and on the higher end of the spectrum. Having high narcissistic traits is what gets one diagnosed with NPD. Narcissism is a spectrum from mild to severe, the way I understand it, our goal throughout life is to work towards the milder end of narcissism as we age and mature. I hope you can find within yourself to believe that you very likely are not a narcissist, rather maybe lean towards the higher end but with work, you will find your balance knowing that having a healthy dose of "narcissism" doesn't make you or anyone of us bad. The word Narcissism being thrown around as 'all things evil' (and believe me, there are several toxic members in both mine and my husband's family) while also labeling everyone a narcissist is not helpful especially for everyone who has some degree of narcissism who are working towards a healthier balance. Hugs, believe in yourself.
@@Monipenny1000 thank you for this!
Then I highly doubt you are one!
@@nicholecornes1915 i’m clinically diagnosed
Short answer - no
Long one - heeeeelllll nooooooo! xD
If it is crappy- give it up. If a hurricane or tornado is coming- I don’t want to stick it out. You can’t save a sinking ship either. ❤
I agree on all the point, but the question is also, how do leave a narcissist? I see my mom going thought this and trying to have a agreement and a settlement but it is impossible to have a compromised with him since his word is the only one that matters. The situation is on going for years now and it seems never ending. What is the way to handle this type of personalities when you want to leave them and go on with your life?
It's my son. He exhibits narcissistic personality disorder (diagnosis from a mental health professional). It broke my heart when he shunned his mother and I several years ago. I have not blocked him on any social media, but I stopped responding to his "Head Games" some time ago. I still hear about him via 'Others" but I make no attempt to contact him (with exception of an inheritable health condition a few months ago for which I got a blistering negative response not related to the condition.)
I have no fix. I had to simply let go.
I was very sick and he did not care one bit !😮
It's crazy that you say that. My husband said his therapist recommended we do it separately first. Then couples after.
Then how do we get our needs met in this? I give and give.
The main reason is that she needs to divorce. Her children are learning from their dad without knowing those behaviors are detrimental to them, especially if she has a son. And they will attack their mom and other relationships.
My husband learned it from his mom. I didn't know his mom was controlling even though she died. Narcissists are that bad. I was nieve to not to noticed during early in the marriage. My whole marriage life was in their gaslighting drama.
Heres a great rule of thumb.
Know this
Therapy doesnt work on individuals who are
Domination Driven like Covert Narcissists. Therapy takes two people with a teammate mindset. PNarcs are not wired to be cooperative. They are wired to
seek and destroy all competitors.
They view eveyone within 50 feet of them as competitors. Those Zero Empathy shapeshifting psychopaths are more dangerous than Charles Manson and Jim Jones combined.
That means you need to Cut Bait and Eject immediately their noxious traits. It may save you years of psychological Torchure and Monthly Trauma.
2 Tim 3 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, slanderers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness although they have denied its power; avoid such people as these. 6