Destiny 2 Lore - A new mystery! What is Savathun's Heirloom and how might it save us? or doom us...
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2023
- Destiny 2's Lore and Story from the Season of the Witch has unveiled a brand new mystery. Immaru's personal recordings of Savathun have revealed something that seems key to her plans. An "Heirloom" of some kind, that appears to be critical to her deal with us. This appears alongside predictions that Eris Morn might soon see an opportunity where she will be powerful enough to kill that vanguard and become the new queen of the Hive.
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I wasn’t sure before, but I’m growing more and more certain each passing day. The “pattern” that the Awoken Queen might discover, that Immaru will reveal, will be Wish 15. The Wish tarot card that finally revealed itself only serves to further my certainty. All that’s needed is an Ahamkara…or an Ahamkara egg…
Well shit you got it right
Nailed it
I love how Byf presents a massive list of hyper powerful artifacts and entities and the state of each one is either: we have it or We killed it.
He's not wrong. Lol
Don't forget that "Pattern" also is used a lot when talking about weapon crafting. Whether or not the word is used in universe is up for grabs but with the Lure's location on Mars on top of actually having part of the Glaive within it, she certainly knew what the Crafting Table was
Maybe the heirloom is one stick and two diamonds…
Theres an unknown exotic in the collections. Could the heirloom be that exotic?
I was thinking the same thing. At some point Savathun claims to have given us the enclave, further supporting her knowing about the crafting spot.
But because the crafting table requires paracausal power (we're basically using deepsight to create guns), I don't see how the Cabal could use the heirloom if it's related to crafting
my best guess to the pattern is maybe the 15th wish? I know its kind of been lost to time but hearing patter just brings the wish wall patterns to mind especially since we all know Savathune and Riven were chatting I cant say definitively this is it because it is kind of a stretch and as to where it is I don't know
"You and I are not done. We're inseparable now. Through your actions, we've forged an age-old bond between my kind and yours. One wish granted deserves another. And I cannot wait to show you what SHE asked for. O murderer mine..."
The moment the awoken were mentioned my first thought went to the hidden dossier weblore. I recently reviewed it, and the conversation between Arach Jalaal and Ikora is extremely interesting.
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Why would the Dreaming City tell Savathûn how to enter the Distributary? The Awoken have never tried to return to their birthplace. They believe their exodus was irreversible.
But what have the Awoken done instead?
Passed from the Distributary and into our world.
That knowledge IS in the Dreaming City. In the records of the Awoken Hulls that carried Mara's people on their exodus.
What Savathûn wants in the Dreaming City is exactly that. Not the way into a child universe, but a way out into a parent. A parent where there are Human minds waiting to receive her, formless as imbaru, as the mist.
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So in the end, Truth to Power moves outwards.
Just as Savathûn plans to move. In from our universe and out to the Distributary-
Or out from our universe to its parent.
JALAAL >> REY
Oh. I see. I see! A literary structure like that is called a chiasmus, and chiasmus means "crossing point"! Like a wormhole or a portal! It was hidden in plain sight.
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I think, rather, that she sent instructions on how to mantle her.
I think the whole Truth to Power manuscript is an ova, a manual on how to behave like her, how to describe her through action and thought so completely that you become her and thus give birth to her.
It's done in the Books of Sorrow, to recall her from true death. It might be done again.
So a part of her is out of the jar. Slithering into that other world.
Let's hope no one there has given birth to her yet.
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Maybe this other world Savathûn's touched is subordinate to ours after all. Maybe they are the ones who exist in our minds. A dream of a purely material world, adrift in the true cosmos of Light and Dark.
Poor frail dreams. The things she'd do to them…
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The skulls of dire Ahamkara speak to me. They know I want to know the truth, and so they whisper to me of a path they climb. They call it the Anathematic Arc.
They are going somewhere. Somewhere they consider more real. Guardians are part of how they get there.
What if Savathûn wants to go there too?
I think about this lore book on pretty much a daily basis. She has already succeeded to a certain extent: the whole Bagel4K affair, and I can only hope that we are able to get more about it.
The distributary theory is very interesting... I don't really see it as an heirloom but I have a possible theory (though it is quite a stretch). You already discussed savathuns main reason for entering the distributary (for imbaru). But the idea of entering a place near impossible to enter which has major ties to light and dark sounds familiar... The witness entered the traveler by linking our ghosts light to the veils darkness. The distributary was created by the clash of light and darkness. The idea of linking light and darkness to create universes is possibly the pattern savathun speaks of. I believe that the distributary is a parent universe and the inside of the traveler is a child one. I speculate that savathun will tell us what she knows about entering a portal to a child universe and use us as guinea pigs to confirm her suspicious. If we want to win, she has to. If we enter the traveler, I believe it is possible that this will give savathun vital answers for her goals for entering the distributary physically and not just through imbaru. However, I don't think anything like this can happen before the final shape which could easily alter things.
Savathun will still ne there after the Witness arc. We will surely go explorer another part of the galaxy, or another galaxy...in which she will have been ressurected.
yhelloh I read some of you other posts on this video and think you might be on to something with the imbaru engine. Pattern could mean the way to get through the engine to get to the pedestal room you mentioned that froggy found in his OOB video. I think that is the most likely where the heirloom is located, and Immaru has access to that location. However we have not heard from Osiris this season which implies that he will be involved in the final parts of this seasons story or perhaps next season. But that also implies that Ikora and Eris fail in some way with this seasons objective if Osiris is the one to discover the pattern. Most importantly things are not looking to good for Eris... I heard dialogue today in an Altars mission I hadn't heard yet can't remember it verbatim but basically Immaru and Eris were cursing at each other with Ikora telling them both to shut up🤣 Immaru said something like "Luckless no-light." Eris said something like "You cretin!" and Ikora saying "STFU the both of you"
This actually, I think, points out something else. A reason for a change in behavior from Mara. Mara may have been inadvertently feeding Savathun with Imbaru with her own tendency to be the the "Deception Queen" or "The Clever One". She's been more upfront with us. More Straight forward. There's still tinges of her old wily self in there, but It's been a growing and almost Natural transition into being a more open ally and willing to share information. Mara being Mara, this in itself would be a thing she's well aware of. I'm thinking that perhaps Mara realized what she was doing and transitioned out of it as part of her own gambit to stop feeding Savathun. Savathun would clearly also predict this, so it's ... Well it's hard to say how effective this is because it at the same time it's being deceptive and thus creating Imbaru. That said, Mara has been entirely upfront for a lot of what she's been involved in with the Coalition During and Following Defiance.
Bungie has already come out and said that The Veil is to the Darkness as The Traveler is to the Light. So hypothetically, if the Cabal are given information by Immaru that allows them to access the power of the Veil, we could be looking at Darkness Wielding Cabal in general, not just Strand. An interesting possibility.
Considering the nature of the imbaru engine perhaps it is simply a gauntlet to house a artifact of hers that contains all of her power from when she was just a hive god not reborn in the light. That heirloom could possibly be a massive boost to Eris. However, it would only work if she fully gave herself up to the sword logic
Infinity gauntlet?
It would be cool if it was another item that holds her memories from before taking the light, that would give Eris all the insight she needs to beat Xivu. It would be an awesome callback to the witch queen campaign.
The last veil containment said Osiris had additional info but it would take a couple of months to decrypt about the veil.Maybe that is what Savathun means when talking about Osiris and he will discover the pattern that will get us into the Traveller without needing her to be resurrected
Back around the time of Witch Queen (I think in the seasons leading up to it) there was a lore entry where a human on Earth was given something by Savathun in the guise of a devil or something, and it was passed down through his family. It might have been her song, which could be an interesting curveball
Have we had the exotic quest yet this season? My guess is that the heirloom is a new gun. It's good against Hive and Taken, which is why the Cabal would've mass reproduced it and used it against Xivu and her gang.
Either that or it's a crest with the pattern for the 15th wish on it.
I've been waiting for Byf to talk about this. As soon as I read the lore entry mentioning "the heirloom" all I could think was "Lore daddy is going to have a field day with this one!"
Is it me or Savathun is deceiving Immaru as she understands his character and figures she’s going to manipulate the one that says he can’t be tricked?
@@driverslineocsz4418 I wonder about that. I don't doubt her having some kind of failsafe in place to make sure it's in his best interest to bring her back.
@@JamesGHensonIIIindeed. Now what are the odds that Eris mentions or channels the traitorous step mother Taox and triggers Xivu to exact the vengeance she swore on so many years ago?
She literally predicted Rasputins falling and the Traveller incapacitated aswell. But i dont think us bring Savathun back is a loss for us, Witch Queen made it very clear that shes fully against the Witness and at this point in time thats all that matters.
I agree with savathun siding with us can be a boon to us guardians, but that sounds like inviting a toxic ahamkara to our doorstep.
@@madlector5438 we might need some paracausal mustard gas
@@madlector5438 well we do that anyway haha we use exotics of their bones and weapons like Touch of Malice and Whisper of the Worm plus when we take out the Witness you really think Savathun will try mess with us? She didnt even want anything to do with Rhulk haha
What is this about her predicting Rasputin's fall? Can you expand on that?
@@salphoris911 well she talks about Rasputin falling and the Traveller incapacitated in her dialouge that happened in Season of the Seraph and then in Lightfall which is after she was already dead.
I doubt the heirloom its in itself hive related, because to be offeted to the Cabal, means Caiatl has to accept it and use it, as we all know the cabals's histoty with hive artefacts hasnt been quite good
My guess is the heirloom could be a device similar to the Radial Mast, given that it could be used in place of our Ghost to link with the Traveler and create the portal. Who's to say the Witness didn't create more than one of these for its other disciples. Or perhaps Savathûn learned how to recreate one herself and made it in secret?
Heirloom sounds like it’s being used as something “in the family” or otherwise owned by your family.
While not a good idea TAOX being held by savathun in secret for millennia would be the kind of evil I expect from her. Referring to TAOX as an heirloom could certainly be a reflection of her past family and owning a part of her heritage.
I think the pattern maybe the insignia related to the Witness we keep seeing in the Pyramids.
I think the heirloom is the Imbaru engine. It could fit the requirements. And it would explsin why Inmaru really didn't want us going in there
Well, yes... and no. I believe the heirloom will be at the end of the imbaru engine. I have Froggy to thank (an amazing youtuber who explores areas out of bounds, i highly highly recommend his channel) because in his out of bounds exploration we can see all of the rooms of the imbaru engine, and at the end there is a small room with a pedestal. That is where I believe the heirloom will be.
@@yhelloh Little Froggy is amazing uwu
What if the Heirloom is the ability to "Take". It was "passed on" from her brother Oryx.
The reason Savathun had control over the taken was because she controlled Quria. This vex mind simulated the sword logic and Oryx took it. Before it was taken it simulated oryx (or aurash as it were) and then oryx gifted Quria to Savathun. Riven also had some control of it indeed, but she was a rather isolated case in the Dreaming City
But Quria died in season of the splicer.
"Unless you are looking for Eva's oven"
I knew she was behind it all, Eva was here before, during and after both encounters with The Witness and she will be here long after we are gone if we don't stop her.
Hey Byf is it possible that the heirloom could be the ship Needle or the other ship the sisters found while journeying into the depths of Fundament?
maybe or the worm fammilier
@@olcuqap1789 that worm familiar is in our Parasite grenade launcher, so I heavily doubt it
@@twelved4983 isnt that just the worm savathun took after the pact becuase that worm was dead
@@olcuqap1789 on second thought, you may be right. I’m getting the worm familiar and Savathun’s worm mixed up. Savathun’s worm is inside Parasite, but the worm familiar is what was shown to Savathun to expose the Witness’s deception. Maybe you’re right
@@twelved4983 its somthing old for sure maybe pre dating fundumant rhulk mayne even the witness
I still think we're gonna kill the leviathan eater, and tithing that level of power to Eris might give her the upper hand, plus with the action of us doing so I can bet that xivu would declare vengeance on eris
We’re definitely gonna kill the Leviathan-Eater. There’s also a scene we haven’t seen yet of Hive Eris crushing something in her hand, perhaps tithes because it didn’t look like Immaru.
@@twelved4983 let's hope it's not glint 😂
I like the Needle and (a section of) the Gift Mast as potential candidates for the "heirloom". Someone else mentioned Savathûn's scalpel, and I think that has pretty strong merit as well.
14:22 ding ding ding you got it right
The heirloom may be reffering to their captive ghosts since we "inherited" them from the traveler upon it's fall... Not sure but since she went on to force a lot of them to serve the hive that might imply that they might be able to rez other species too... Other than that I got nothing else on the hive's file, maybe that giving their forces a battle of attrition having the balance of cabal guardians just grinding tribute to eris bc immaru brought a lot of ghosts giving them a chance against xivu's forces might actually make sense but other than that I literally cannot find any other common relation between us, immaru, cabal and Savathun, if you guys like this theory give it a like so that byf might look into that
Maybe this will tie in to Osiris' studying of the Veil and the Black Heart? I really hope that thread gets picked back up...
I always love the corkboard. It's like a peak behind the curtain into Byf, the Lore Mind's, well... mind.
These lore videos are incredible. Loved the little board in this one haha. Loving this seasons story so far
14:23 you sir are a prophet
I don't know about anyone else, but when I hear pattern and Mara Sov I think about the curse of the dreaming city. I understand that it has always been said that Dul Incaru and Riven are to blame for the cycle of the dreaming city, but what if it can't be broken because the heirloom is also playing a part in it. Now this doesn't describe what the heirloom is or the type of power that it holds, but it is just where my brain when when I first read Contingency Plans.
The two possible outcomes Savathun predicts (either Eris consuming the entire Vanguard-Cabal-Eliksni Alliance, or Eris resurrecting Savathun) are a scary thought.
Even worse when you consider that if Eris does consume the Vanguard-Cabal-Eliksni Alliance, we will have arrived in some variation of the Dark Future that Elsie Bray has seen play out so many times.
For me I think the frightening part is Savathun suggesting that Ikora would become TOO powerful and that to handle her they'd have to have her kill one of her friends. While I'm sure there's definitelylu truth there I think she's underestimating Ikora a little but at the same time it's REALLY scary to imagine a Hive God saying someone will become TOO powerful.
Dark future is coming scarily close to true.
I wonder if Immaru’s arrogance is actually fear. He’s constantly hating on us saying Eris doesn’t have enough tithes to discourage us from the plan. Because if it is enough, then his worst fears are one step away from realisation, at least based on that last section of ‘Contingency Plans’
Hey, Byf! I just got your table mat today! It looks incredible!
As for the heirloom, I can think of only two options that I think make sense. Perhaps the heirloom is the ship Sathona and her sisters used to descend Fundament's oceans, hiding in that giant bowl in the Throne World. If not that, then it's probably something that'll be completely new and introduced next season if that's the path Bungie had chosen for next season.
There is something so therapeutic about a byf outro
Bungie delievered! This season there are mysteries within mysteries, within yet again more mysteries. It's tantalizing! I've not heard you so excited in a lore video for a long time. I'm happy for you my guy! Also happy for me and many others because no one delivers that information quite like you do. I appreaciate every content creator that has contributed to Desteniy 2 and it's Lore for the decade long run, but somehow YOU are just uncanny in how well orated and versed this lore comes across. Thanks again for all your efforts!
Xivu is very sentimental.
The heirlooms might just be something as simple as a thing from back when they where kids that could remind Xivu of better times as a loving family many years before the worm bargain.
Xivu could see that and because of her sentimental nature be weaknd
The god of lies was defeated by learning the truth
The god of war might be defeated with love witch could be interpreted as a kind of peace
I love the mystery/conspiracy board! Great stuff
Damn dude. You're wrecking faces w that voidlock build. Still haven't tried it because of a little aspect called BANNER OF WAR!
The pattern is probably referring to what's happening in the Imbaru Engine text you get when completing a run, "You have conjured cunning"; this sounds a bit like "I am trickery, and you have conjured me back with trickery" from when Oryx rezzed Savathun back in the Books of Sorrow. By conjuring cunning, we're helping empower a specific mechanism for Savathun to get rezzed again, as cunning is Savathun's aspect. I would then guess that the Heirloom is some physical object that plays a role in this method of getting rezzed that also doubles as a weapon, but there's no telling what that is. Maybe the needle ship they used to dive down to the worms back on Fundament? Other than the worm familiar we stole back in the Witch Queen campaign, there's no telling what Savathun kept from those days.
I'm just gonna love how the ahamakara egg has not been forgotten ^-^
One problem with the contingency plan, Savathun was dead long before Rasputin, she would have no way of knowing about his sacrifice. Bungie's writers need to pay more attention to timelines.
I believe Savathun's ability to predict the future is because she's in possession of a perfect OXA Machine. She's not using a crystal ball, or a mirror, and she also had direct access to the Veil, she probably experimented on it as well, she definitely studied it and you'd' need to, to complete an OXA.
Byf I think it’s either info on how to harness the light to make new guardians. so the cabal can become light imbued. Or or a small chance something to do with the vale’s choir. Maybe how to utilize it, as it had something to do with minds and souls essentially
Could the Heirloom perhaps be the secret to hive necromancy that Nokris learnt? It came up again recently in ghosts of the deep, and if I'm not mistaken, Savathun was involved in some way with Nokris at some point. That last part could just be me speaking out of my ass though, as I'm not totally sure about it.
Martin is now part of the My Name Is Byf lore. Canon!
Omg it was literally the ahamkara egg
Watching this after the season story wrapped up is funny in how byf nonchalantly says ahamkara egg while the final card is "wish". Next season is gonna be crazy if it is.
Eris won’t betray us. In the dark timelines she was always alone. She never had us there to help her through her trauma in the past. She didn’t have anyone that COULD keep her in check. But this time Eris made a check to make sure she doesn’t go down the wrong path in tying herself to us. She knows that we’re stronger than she is and that unless we tithe to her she’s doomed. Betraying the vanguard or our Allie’s also doesn’t make sense given just how much support she has from not just us but Drifter, Zavala, Ikora, but most importantly us.
I was thinking of a few things that just dawned to me…the way how Xivu will lose and will inadvertently give Eris the win….channel Taox not sure how - but if she’s able to conjure her, knowing Xivu’s blind rage she’ll take the bait as she hates Taox, wanting vengeance. Ultimately tiding to Eris.
I think the heirloom stems from Nezarek’s raid…specifically the mechanic where you can move the planets. It’s hinted soon you’ll have the power to move planets so I’m thinking it has to be linked to that mechanic. Even when Oryx swore on his eye to find out “what moved Fundaments moons as my fathers last warning” it has to be linked to that somehow. Maybe I’m missing something. The witness took Mars Io and Titan but Savathun brought them back in her Reflections. She found the item that gave her that power to do so, but needed to be rid of her worm to have a non- repercussive move to not take much from her as she intends to gain more.
Final bit - osmium is used as a catalyst to make strong metal alloys for things like pens tips and needles for cutting or transferring into other malleable surfaces. I’m not sure where an item that was referenced as needle. But strand uses the fabric of space and time - what if there was a para causal needle that can tear in or rip the seems of space and time? Causing an opening to travel or even manipulating it once it’s been charged?
Just speculation
I dont even play the game anymore, but Byf is the reason i keep coming back for the story. Keep up the good work Byf love what you do.
Random theory time: The Heirloom is the piece that connected the Traveler and Veil before they separated. It's the point where they broke off, having a half & half of each other. Savathun obtained it long before and kept it secret from her brother and sister. She uses taps into it and sees various potential realities kinda of like access to the OXA Engine.
The piece could be extremely powerful and at one point it could have drifted into the vicinity of the Psion homeworld and that's the reason their species became powerful psychics. No light or darkness at the time for their peaceful culture, so it influenced their evolution making them more sensitive to Veils energy and psychic connection. It may have been what inspired the OXA engine in the first place.
Savathun has had it a long time, using it to look at various potential past, present, and future outcomes and plan accordingly. The perfect item for a hive god of cunning and trickery. The Traveler, completely separated, doesn't have the foresight, but Savathun knew there was a chance she might be made a guardian and later resurrected and leaving the recordings for immaru. This is why she set up the means to regain her memories beforehand. The one thing she didn't expect was learning that they were tricked by the Witness prior to the Traveler arriving. Kept secret by the Witness and the worm gods.
We'll use the Heirloom's combination of light/dark to keep our existence/mind/reality stable so we can cross over the threshold and into the Traveler. It will be used to make next season's artifact and for The Final Shape.
Okay, I'm done.
I'd really like to go to that planet where the Drifter and his crew went to see if there are other relics there or species or things of power we could interact with. In general, I'd like to see more Drifter content, maybe even Dredgen stuff and Dark Guardians.
Give Martin a raise :D , good video Byf
The mystery in the Byf-verse is “who is shrike?” 😂 I’ve never seen them in a TSLAYP or mentioned anywhere else. But ever-present in these awesome videos.
I really feel that there’s an ahamkara shaped surprise coming.
"The Pattern" might be in regards to the wall of wishes, many of the codes we input in the last wish raid are symmetrical patterns of images mirroring each other. i know its a huge stretch but its somewhat a possibility.
As savathun plans more and more even beyond death makes me think she has many many many plans she openly admits to having, then acting only a selective few out to make the other plans be perceived as lies thus only fueling her own power. As someone with sociopathic tendencies myself I see as a total win for he either way. The only way to truly beat her is to trust her while understanding she's only looking out for herself, or rather a "no but, thank you" kill with kindness type of response.
The veil actually sounds like the most plausible option as osiris spends most of his time studying it anyways.
The term pattern linking with the vex also lines up with how the vex attempted to create the veil and ended up creating the black heart (something we have data on)
I love the conspiracy board, i need to see art of byf's warlock just doing the meme
sounds like the heirloom can be used against xivu arath, but that may not be its only useful purpose. I think, whatever it is, we will wield it as the next seasonal artifact. Just a guess but seasonal artifacts in the past have been heirlooms.
I'd wondered about the Heirloom being the Needle ship used to navigate the depths of Fundament... However I think that might be a red herring.
I also find it interesting that the contingency where Savathun talks about Eris powering up by destroying the Vanguard, the Eliksni and Cabal is quite similar to the Dark Future book. The Traveller seems resistant to this though, as Elsie's timeline resets her when Eris achieves victory.
Damnit... Osiris discovering "the Pattern" first would make a tremendous amount of sense. Mara would certainly be able to discover any Pattern the Vex are involved with... but if anyone knows the Vex that's still around (RIP Asher), It's Osiris. But I could see Osiris potentially willing to suggest the guardians take something Vex related from Mara by force. Especially backed by Saint given what we saved him From to begin with. Wild. Pattern makes me think Vex. And the Vex have, at this point it feels like, tried to replicate the Veil multiple times.
As an "off the wall" alternative it may have nothing to do with anything we're fully aware of at all. Caiatl might be wary of anything related to the veil directly. A point against that though, before I continue, may be her wariness against any gifts from Savathun's Ghost. But... there are things that appeal to the Cabal mindset. Weapons. Until Oryx was able to Take the gift of Taking, the Ecumene were *winning*. And were doing so by using paracausal weaponry. We first find out they were likely receiving it from the Traveler in some faction, but we later find out the secret history that they also had a connection with the Darkness. The Taken are still a huge threat, but not as big of a force as they were before. And are currently only under the direct, true command of the Witness ITself. Xivu can hold the reigns if they're handed over to her, but I suspect she doesn't care to, as she prefers her own Wrathborn. Which are pretty much Knockoff Taken if we're being honest. Great Value Taken. "We have Taken at Home". As a jab that Byf himself might appreciate "Poundland Taken". With the weaponry of the Ecumene, the Cabal could make real headway against Xivu Arath's brood. At least long enough for the revised deal Immaru is to bring us.
the final prediction is what happened in one of the dark timelines. Instead of being healed she suffered from the nightmares and became OBSESTED by vengeance thus becoming the new witch queen. The Heirloom is the staff we use, i think that's pretty obvious.
I think the heirloom might be that mysterious ahamkara egg we saw hidden away in season of the lost. We never did find out why it was there as far as I can remember.
You mentioned Savathun's worm, but what about Oryx's worm? There's lore saying it wasn't found on his body on Titan, and I don't think it's beyond Savathun's ability to have stolen it. That could be a powerful Heirloom that could check all the boxs.
The word pattern made me think of some weapon or item we'd need to craft, similar to the original glaive blade we found early on in Witch Queen. No clue what said item would actually be, but just thought I'd throw my idea into the hat.
Loving this season. 💚
I'm reminded of a Reddit post that pointed out Immaru having a rune on his backside unique to him, as Fynch doesn't have one.
I’d be super curious if Savathun knew at all the possibility of Oryx’s resurrection. Not to say he still won’t come back to some extent given that he’s still “alive” in a sense. I imagine she had to know, but still.
The heirloom I think is someyhing weve known about, been to, but never had control of (to my knowledge anyway) and that would be Oryxs Dreadnaught. My reasoning is this:
-Savathun had Quira for a long time and it was Taken which gave it some paracausal abilities and it was able to create a simulation of Aurash, a young Oryx, at one point. With Paracausal abilities/insights this may have led eventually to a full simulation of Oryx
-As a Hive ship it is an heirloom if any other Hive inherited it
-The Dreadnaught itself is Oryxs throneworld, which itself is based off paracausality, and thus could be used against Xivu (Throneworlds can be commandeered as we saw Mara take Tolands)
-The Cabal are a race of warriors and have great experience using ships in combat, plus had established a beachhead/intel on the Dreadnaught at one point, theyd be able to use it well
To the best of my knowledge no one controls the Dreadnaught and its still floating in Saturns rings. If Oryx was the only one able to control it just through will alone then if Savathun had a full simulation of her brother via a Taken Quria then anyone in possesion of said simulation (which would basically be like an AI from Halo) then it may be able to control the ship and anyone that controlled it could fully use the Dreadnaught. But hey thats just a theory....
In this case wouldn't the heirloom really be the simulation of Aurash?
@@mozeytown little column A, little column B
I feel like the heirloom is a mechanism that creates the bond between ghosts and their hosts. With all her experiments on the other ghosts and the hive light, i think she found out how to give that ability. This would allow light cabal and they could then have an actual battle with Xivu! Just my opinion but it seens being given paracausal abilities is the thing that changes the fight.
Osiris also knows the Vex well so they definitely could have something to do with the pattern he could decipher.
Crotas sword can cut through reality itself,if im not mistaken it was that sword that savathun tricked crota into using in oryxs throne world causing the vex invasion that got him banished and birthed quaria so maybe its the spirit sword like quality they will use to bring the protags to the witnesses new location
I think there is a chance, that the loom ist going to be the next seasonal artifact. Another thought runs around Immaru, being the link himself. Maybe the ghosts themself have another meaning in terms of connecting the veil and the traveler.
It didn’t even cross my mind until I watched this but now I have a crackpot theory. Hear me out, Wish 15. When I read the lore earlier in the week, I didn’t think anything of when Savathûn talked about Mara discovering the pattern and guardians taking it by force (the heirloom). Who says that this heirloom has to be from Savathûn herself? Does it need to even be in Immaru’s possession? What if it is the ahamkara egg that we saw in season of the lost? Savathûn gives us the knowledge of the 15th wish, and we need to convince Mara to let us use the ahamkara to decipher it? If Mara recognizes the pattern, that would imply it’s related to something she knows about, in this case being Riven and the ahamkara. So maybe the heirloom isn’t in Savathûn’s possession, or maybe it’s just the knowledge of the actually 15th wish’s pattern. While I’m not sure how we’d get this info out of Savathûn or Immaru, I’m starting to think Mara’s egg is part of it… or maybe I just went too far down the rabbit hole while thinking up this idea. Either way, it seems to fit the description in my mind. Caital could use an ahamkara to go to war with Xivu, and it’s definitely something that Mara would recognize.
By the way ‘pattern’ comes up in regards to the Enclave. You shape weapon ‘patterns’. This can mean that patterns have relevance to the deep or at least the psychic pattern of deepsight. A pattern is a mammoth made manifest through the deep. So the pattern to the heirloom may not even be a physical thing *yet* but a piece of knowledge. A memory that can manifest. Which would fit perfectly to Savathun’s whole Imbaru game. The cabal would be delivered information, not a thing.
But that’s just a long shot
I think the heirloom is the oxa machine. Bare with me; whatever the heirloom is, it can be used to stop the war with Xivu to a standstill. Not a decisive victory, a standstill. If the oxa machine were to be used, it would calculate and foresee attacks and feints before they happen, meaning Xivu can’t properly attack. Additionally, the heirloom must go to caityl, not the vanguard. Caityl’s psions would obviously be the inheritors to the oxa machine, as it was meant to be passed down to the psion race.
As to how she got it, and where it is; i forget where it was lost. Ether to nezarec or the cabal i don’t remember. But etheir way, Savathun was in a position to steal it no matter where it went. By looting it during one of her many fights with nezarec or by stealing it away during the sack of torobotl.
And finally, to answer where it is, or if Savathun even has it; is no one else confused how her predictions are so accurate? Savathun is clever don’t get me wrong, but being clever will only take you so far., and there is nothing in the rules saying a clever witch can’t use a tool or artifact.
As for where it is, well, what question have we been asking for years now? “What is the oxa machine?” “Where is the oxa machine?” “How was the oxa machine made?”
An awful lot of confusion surrounds that artefact that savathun may or may not have. Speaking of confusion, you know what else deals with confusion? The imbaru engine. For it to be called an “engine” implies that not only does it collect and harness a power of some sort, it does so efficiently and consistently. Now obviously, savathun could just make a weird, mysterious room and leave it at that, but at the end of the day, thats not too efficient to just set and forget. No, to generate enough imbaru to sustain a god of trickery and cleverness, there has to be something truly mysterious inside the engine. And there’s only one artifact thats fits all the clues we’ve been given.
The oxa machine.
My first thought is the gift mast. Reading the books of sorrow it seems to very clearly paracausal in nature as a traveler made artifact, and is a very powerful weapon that could be used in caiatl's fight against xivu in the mentioned contingency. The only part that doesnt track is that it wasnt passed down and was presumably largely devoured by oryx's brood, though he kept pieces of it himself. In the event that it was retained partially or in whole by oryx, it stands to reason that savathun would take such a thing from oryx. That's all i got 🤷♂️
This probably has nothing to do with the hierloom but on the point of the vex being related to patterns and savathun referring to Osiris pushing for a bad decision, Osiris is known for studying the vex. Furthermore with this season bungie have shown that they want to connect the seasons stories with the direct throwback to Asha and we never did really do anything with what we discovered in the avalon node (the schematic asher made to convert vex to our side)
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure quaria (the mind from splicer) was taken or at the verry least controlled by savathun so she would have had some access to the vex network and pair that with the fact asher would have mostlikely been working on the Vail calculations at that time and savathun might have seen something useful during that time, what that is if anything I have no idea, maybe some way to control the vail or hell maybe we can open a vex gate and send higher level combat frames at xivu
Maybe the vex will actually be relevant in this
Here’s my thoughts. It’s a kaleidoscope that’s rooted from the Veil.
the ghosts were passed down to the guardians. And ghosts have an Eye. They make you forget your past and focus on the future.
The veil coincides with the darkness which gives knowledge. And apparently gives you back your memories. Maybe it’s what savathûn used best the witness and kill nezerec. A spyglass of sorts. Since there is a clear pattern in the portal…it resembles a kaleidoscope to me.
maybe the heirloom is an artifact used by Savathun/Riven to maintain the curse over the Dreaming City. it has accumulated power (thanks to the guardians) since the beginnings of cycles/pattern of the curse and could be so powerful now that it could give Caital the force to fight Xivu. That could explain why MAra could detect the "pattern". Maybe this is the plate with the 15º wish??
this passage is bringing one thing to mind we know catial, and everyone else's thoughts on the current plan but unless I miss a entry mara has said nothing the matter I wonder if she knows what savathun is trying and is staying out of it
So, the mention of 'pattern' and the connection made to the Vex makes me think Savathun has the deisgn specs for the Black heart of the Vex, or an artificial Veil. Perhaps by giving the specs to the Cabal, they will be able to contruct it properly, and draw the attention of Xivu.
Then, Immaru can take the spec to the Vanguard and say 'here, the Cabal have tried, and now Xivu has targeted them. Now is a chance to build it correctly, and Savathun can show you how to operate it.'
And having their own veil will unlock the final darkness sub-class, and grant access inside the Traveler.
At least, that the thought I had while watching the video.
This might be pretty out there. But I can not think pattern without thinking the 15th wish from The Last Wish raid. A prospect of power that keeps getting weaved through time and time again. (Yes weave as, with a loom, bad joke I know) That is also what I think, when Savathun are regarding Mara to be the one to discover it. Again, pretty out there, but it is a thought, that I wanted to share.
Would be funny if the Darkest Blade was the heirloom but at the same time kinda would make sense for this season and give the Crota’s End raid more importance. The heirloom could also be in the Imbaru Engine, just a possibility though.
I mean, I checked out the imbaru engine mission the other day, it’s been extended and requires what I believe is the final major arcana card to access the rest of the mission, imo it would make sense that the imbaru engine is going to be used to be used in one of two or more ways, A) savathun is collecting imbaru that Eric may later take, this will utilise the witch queens cunning as sword logic to make use of xivu’s hypocrisy to weaken her, savathun even calls xivu a hypocrite in the 1st or 2nd helm radio recording (I don’t remember which) we could then engage weakened xivu in combat or even use up all of eris’ power to defeat her, conjuring her back with vengeance (for she is vengeance, and we will have conjured her back with vengeance), b) savathun will return, this fits in with the truths and lies game, after we outwit xivu with eris’ new found heirloom enhanced power, that cunning used by eris to beat xivu will be enough to bring back savathun (for she is cunning and can only be conjured back with cunning) much like how the 2 other hive gods were killed by aurash/oryx to gain power to fight the ammonite, this would be savathun’s final shape, imaru describes the witnesses final shape as “winning a game by turning it off”, where’s as from my knowledge is that the hive view it as being “the best at what they do”, the sharpest sword of all the land if you will, being the last thing left when the dust settles.
what if the pattern is a portal connected to the "cocytus" space station? and the "heirloom" a way to safely enter and use the portals without being destroyed as mentioned within the book "stolen intelligence" with the drones and maybe we could use it to simulate a similar portal to the one on the traveller, of course this may be a long shot but its something that came to mind for this
What if the Upended is the heirloom? It’s Rhulk’s super weapon that has just been sitting in Savathun’s Throne World for some time now. I’m sure the cabal would make great use of it against Xivu Arath. Also, it could be seen as an heirloom since Savathun has effectively inherited Rhulk’s possessions in her throne world.
The upended will go down as just another thing bungie puts in their game but we will never see used because their live service engine is too hard to work on
I mean it's probably definitely not, but I was also thinking OXTA/Taox could, maybe, be described as an "heirloom", and could have knowledge on a whole host of topics that could help, not least of which being possible weaknesses of the three siblings...
To think though that if Eris had fallen for the hive power and the sword logic, and devoured everything, that in a sense, Savathun then loses. And only through that method would she lose, and have nothing else she could do.
But that was only if Eris accepted and kept that power, but, thankfully, perhaps, for everyone else, and even Savathun herself, that did not happen. But to think that if it did, everything would be lost both for us, and for Savathun, is pretty spooky to think about. It also shows that as sick and twisted Savathun still is, she aligns so closely to the vanguard, the guardians and the traveler, that she is putting all her cards into one basket more often now than she ever did. She is playing extremely risky games, which, in all honesty is very out of character for her. considering she had done so much before, and had contingencies for every single thing we did or do. But to have so much thought out, and suddenly running into so many dead end walls really shows that on the side of the light, her choices are far more limiting. Not just limiting though but also that she is running out of choices and possibilities that could benefit her.
We still have Taox to account for. I believe that Taox is still suspended in stasis somewhere in the universe and I doubt she died in the Book of Sorrow. She knows how to dupe her former pupils, seeing that she taught them.
I vote we call the board, the "Imbaru board"
the heirloom, and i'm breaking out the copium-laced spinfoil here, might be Oryx's Worm. the only living creature that knows more about Hive Arcana and the history of the Hive than Savathun is presently alive, and MIA as of Ghosts of the Deep. Oryx's Worm, even if not bonded with by the Cabal, would be a treasure trove of knowledge
still stuck on the idea that the malediction is somehow involved as the most boring option for the heirloom is a mcguffin cooked up just for this season without any previous ties, or at least previously hinted ones. there's also an irony in that savathun taunts us about how we're going to point a little gun at the darkness in season of the lost and yet here she might be gifting us a little gun
Whatever this "heirloom" is has to be linked to the imbaru engine because that entire place is a maze and might have a prize being the heirloom at the center of the maze
If Mara can find the pattern, it may be something linked to the Curse on the Dreaming City. And it may still be vex linked since it is a time distortion thing. And if anyone know about curses, it's Osiris; the only time the Vex were the center stage threat.
Every cutscene where Eris muttered "My Queen" to nothing but the camera, I never assumed she was talking about Mara.
That's the trouble with the "Queen" epitaph...it can create quite a bit of imbaru, no?
After all...surviving for centuries, lightless, in the depths of the enemy stronghold would take quite a bit of cunning, yes?
My thoughts are drawn to a light based structure created by the Traveler talked about in the Books of Sorrow that was suspended in a black hole. Could Sauvathune have found a way to get that structure and could that be the core or power behind the Imbaru engine?
I wonder is savathun has a plan if Imarue will betray her? He doesn’t sound the most ecstatic about reviving her but this does hinge on the question can a ghost have multiple guardians such as the witch queen getting a new ghost partner. As for the Heirloom if imarue must own it it’s gotta be something shared between the 3 hive gods or maybe some given to them by their father that savathun held for a short time. This does get tricky cause Mara has some idea of it’s working she could’ve had a vision of it but idk.
Can’t see anyone else commenting about this, but wouldn’t it make sense if it was something that Savathun took from Rhulk? After trapping him in her throne world she’d have pretty much free pickings of his stuff. Especially if it was something he was given by the witness as its first disciple.
His Glaive came to mind straight away but it could be the upended or anything else we might he left behind on his ship. Savathun may have taken whatever it was before we got near the ship or even the throne world.
I’m thinking it could be an ahamkara egg or something involving the traveler or something she took during the days all three gods were together like a shard of the gift mast or something, it’s called an heirloom something passed down from either riven or oryx before they split off that’s my theory
The cabal wielding strand would be fucking epic