Destiny 2 Lore - The Worms, Tithes & Dark Hive Magic that we can now use thanks to Eris's Exploits!
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- Опубліковано 22 жов 2023
- Thanks to Factor75 for sponsoring today's video. Go to strms.net/factor75_mynameisbyf and use code POGBYFOCT50 for 50% off your first box! Destiny 2's Lore and Story from the Season of the Witch sees guardians using hive magic properly for the first time. This requires a deeper examination, as the method we use to wield it requires the specific Hive Staff that Eris has created to mark us as one of her acolytes. It has a clever way of subverting the pact made between the hive and the worm gods, which allows us to avoid their damning Blood Tithe.
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Eris went and turned all our enemies into cool powers instead of guns, what a nice gal.
she always was 😇
@@xXx_Regulus_xXx Arcturus Black?
*we kinda did that before it was cool buddy*
All we missing now are the scorn cross bows and I think we will be complete boys
@@OtherL damn LMAO. undercover bungie dev??
I find it very interesting how the "tithing" process kind of resembles Gambit - Kill, grab the mote/tithe, bank, and repeat. A repeating of mechanics, or the fact the 9 have been playing a very long game.
This person has a point ☝
What is this Gambit you speak of and why do I suddenly have PTSD of a gun called Maleficence? In all seriousness I brushed up on the Nine lore and there existence is fully tied to humanities existence. So what do you mean by the long game? Forgive my ignorance if I am /rwhooshing here😂
@@happystate2480in simple terms we have no fucking clue how old the 9 are. We know who the emissary of the 9 is but the star horse and the other 8? No clue.
@@connormcconnell7805 They're the nine traditional planets of the solar system. This was explicitly stated back in Season of the Drifter but was hinted at for years beforehand. More specifically they're sentient clouds of dark matter dust in a parallel universe than line up with celestial objects, in this case the nine traditional planets of the solar system. The nine haven't been a mystery in a long time.
Redditor detected. Opinion invalid.
I love how these videos are formated. They are built in a way you don't need to necessarily watch them. I listen to these on my way to work almost every day and it helps me keep up with the lore. Keep up the good work, fellow guardian
byf is a natural at podcasts
I think it's pretty hilarious that Immaru has been a Hive ghost for like 2 years, and he thinks he knows more about Hive magic than Eris, who was trapped in the hellmouth for decades. She's been out of the hellmouth for 8/9 years now so even if she didn't learn any hive magic in the hellmouth she still has at least 4 times the amount of experience with it over him.
Imagine being the single most powerful entity since as long as you can remember and then becoming a gun.
I was so sad when the worm gun didn't say anything the entire season. I was really helping for something I had it on all the time but nope :-(
Something that always baffled me about bungie and eris in general is that they have yet to give her a form of logic. Eris is the literal antithesis to the hive so something like 'Sheild Logic' would fit. Its not the slaughter for personal gain and survival, But the slaughter to empower our comrades. This way eris can keep using hive magic and not fall to its corruption.
Don't really need a new type of logic. Having Sword Logic and Bomb Logic is sensible enough, one is more directly facing an enemy, one is winning through a complex means, I'd say we're implementing both, the Sword Logic as we directly fight for and tithe to Eris like the Hive do, and Bomb Logic in that we're working out a complex plan, or Eris was, using the Sword Logic's power to get stronger, then bring in Savi to get killed in just the right to empower Eris even more, enough to have an influence on the THrone Worls, I assume th Hive Gods always had this ability, to cut each other off from their Throne Worlds if strong enough, but why would they do it? They still follow the Sword Logic faithfully and so WANT to keep fighting each other and not permadeath each other. By doing what Eris did they'd sentence the other to a permenant death. But Eris isn't bound by the Hive's morality or "love". PLus it removed Xivu as major threat while allowing her to live and potentially return for an expansion.
In speculating on what'd happen if guardians ingested a hive worm, I feel like you completely forgot about the Light's affects on Hive Worms, from what we learned of the Lucent Hive back in Witch Queen.
a guardian's light is so much paracasual power that it create a sort of back-pressure in the tithing system; Savathun and her Hive Lightbearers were givng off so much power it was not only feeding the worms of those who still had them, but flowing backwards along the tithing system, down into their lessers and feeding them, too, all the way down to the thrall. That's why the lucent hive have the Moths, as their biology doesn't actually know what to do with all that light so it isolates it in the boils that grow into the moths.
I still *_would not recommend_* a guardian ingest a worm, but it very likely wouldn't result in the endless hunger for death and destruction Hive have. I also don't see why you'd think it would require tithing to a god; the system is in place because Oryx and Co couldn't generate enough slaughter to feed their worm's hunger as it was growing beyond them. Hive only Tithe up because their bosses need it, not they themselves.
I learnt about Tithing from Warhammer 40K.
All the planets under control of the Imperium have a tithe to the Imperium, and it can be anything, but is mainly people that are tithed to the Imperial Guard to fight for the Imperium. Punishments to the planets can be handed out for many reason, and that normally involves in an increase to the tithing.
Tithing goes back earlier than the Babylonians. The first mention of tithes that I can remember is actually Abraham somewhere around 2000 BC.
I'm shocked Byf missed this honestly. Leviticus 27:30: “‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord.” The 10% requirement comes from the Hebrew translation of tithe, “עשר” or “ten”.
Thank you Byf. Your videos allow me to ultiltize these lore books to create a presentation for my literature class and got a 100 from it
I think the german equivalent for the term Tithe would be Zehnt, which is also derived from the word for 10.
Addressing the question you made at the end of the video, I think if a Guardian ingested a Hive Worm they would likely get the powers of the Hive without having to deal with the "hunger" usual Hive deal with.
Look at the Ascendant Hive, even the worms of non-light-bearing Hive get fed by what light trickles down to them from the Light-bearers. So I would imagine worm of someone full of the light would be mostly sated.
The main downsides would be the Tithing and who'd they'd end up passing their power onto.
I absolutely think the staff will have a future use with regards to the Final Shape and the Witness.
I suppose it would come down to if your ghost would revive the worm with you or not. Course there is also if the worm would end up blocking or changing your light as well.
You could say the Lucent hive gives us those answers but they got the light after living with their worms for a massive period of time. They were merged before the fact not after.
The Egyptians operated a barter system. everything had a value, including labour and skill, and there was a set system of 'trade' where you could offer your skill or labour for a set amount of items in return. So , say you wrote out a contract between a farmer and a merchant, you would receive items from one or the other (depending on who hired you) items to the perceived value of the work done. A tithe was a tribute or sacrifice in leu of expected outcomes from the God you are asking something of. Either a curse or a blessing.
I can't be the only one wanting a slew of lore texts from characters feeling regret for ever doubting Eris in spite of how much she has done and sacrificed for everyone.
We’ve been tithing shards to Rahool and bright dust to Tess. The labors that those represent for all these years could make them the most powerful at the end. Who judges all this toward winning The Final Shape.
Can we stop and appreciate we canonically trolled Parasyte into being a gun we never use
Laughs in Atrax.
@105thbattalion laughs in one of if not the most highest single shot dps in the game.
Parasite is a great gun and despite being a single shot auto loading holster does reload it and makes it feels much better to use, it just doesn't currently fit into top tier meta dps options.
@@mezkoo4259 Atrax? Any boss that needs the highest burst damage?
Hear me out: Asher Mir is the key that Savathun "already gave us."
Savathun was there with Lakshmi when the portal let Vex into the city, but Asher was among those Vex. I propose that Savathun may have done this intentionally. If Asher is about to be dropping mass info about the darkness as a result of the info given to us in the Vexcalibur quest and lore tab, then I would be willing to bet that the season following Season of the Witch will be devoted to working with Asher and Mithrax.
When you said Savathun was there...my mind instantly popped up that scene from Puss in Boots when Humpty was always there lol
That sounds like a nice theory, and that I want Asher Mir back
Unless I'm misunderstanding something, in the final part of the Vexcalibur quest, Asher was utterly consumed by the Vex Network. He doesn't exist anymore.
@@dembro27 Wait yeah you're right. I had to go and watch footage of it to see it. I guess I missed that part the first time around.
Tithes first appeared in D2 in the season of Oppulence. When we go to Calus' ship on Nesus to buy runes to slot in the chalice, we open chests on that ship called "tithes" or "paying tithes" That's what the interact option is called.
Really great video!
It's pretty fascinating that, even at this point, the seasonal team decided to include Hive magic in this format. I can't wait to see how season 23 pans out.
And, whether Hive magic, and the sword logic will become a thing of the past, or if it will continue.
In some strange way Savathun reminds me of the Nine, in that she seems to be seeking a way to completely abandon the bargain they were given.
And tap into something else? 👀 Perhaps even having access to the light is a means to an end..
Yo, that lawyer is awesome. In his good Lord you put out my friend it’s so good and no no I think I think if we eat a worm week it should turn into a hive guardian and beat. It looks like them, but they got all the mentality, protect humans, or something like that all right
Once again loredaddy has given us another amazing video on the lore of Destiny lol. Sorry that nickname of yours is stuck in my head. Keep up the great work Byf!
It would be so cool if there were exotic class items which changed the color of our solar specs to soul fire green! Maybe a few artistic changes too like Solar Warlock’s sword is a Hive knight sword.
Soooo, the Hive are just wrapped up in one giant, fancy, pyramid scheme?
Yes, I see what I did there, too.
I've been behind on Destiny since I've been playing Mortal Kombat 1 and Street Fighter 6, and this past week I've been doing catch-up...and man .. your videos are a huge help since I feel so behind on the story this season, which is a shame because this season has been 🔥🔥🔥
i just noticed that the gameplay is from a friend of byf. and i asked byf about the fighting lion loadout he had goin damn
I love byf frrr
12:02
The Helment looks like Savathun wearing a priests hat over her eyes
Hive magic reminds me of Nightsister magic, all we need now are a Togruta and a Chiss
Imagine if we have been tithing to the Traveler this whole time with all our light!! The traveler would be a force to be reckoned with!
Great job...thanks for the hard work...all power eventually corrupts
3:56 -- _Tithing is theft._
Going off that question posed at the end of the video I'm confident that the end result of a Guardian bonding with a Worm would grant them access to the same dark powers of the Hive, with its corresponding blood price. However just going off what I know of the Tithing system established by Oryx our aforementioned Guardian wouldn't be required to tithe a portion of their earned power to anyone as that mechanism is both voluntary (Going by what is said in the excerpt from the Books of Sorrow in this video) and specific to the Hive themselves.
Ultimately though while the potential gain in power is immense I don't think such a bonding is worth it as in the end you'd run into the same constraints and limitations, namely the appetite of the worm exceeding ones ability to feed it, that forced Oryx to establish the Tithing system in the first place. Meanwhile the Light seems to have no such constraint, that we've encountered at the very least.
I noticed that there’s actually two worms in the staff which I found interesting
1. kill hive worm larvae
2. force hive ghost to ressurect dead worm
3. ingest lightbearer worm
4. tithe to Traveller
5. ...
6. profit?
Byf, what do you think of the Worm Gods themselves being tithed to the Witness?
Block, light attack 4-5 times, than heavy attack for the best way to use the Lament.
I'm sorry for trying to change the subject, but can we talk about the fact that Immaru is LITERALLY STEALING CANDY FROM CHILDREN!!!?😠😤🤬
A proper villain😊
Where? What lorebook?
@@lorenzorodriguez9481 This year's Tales of the Forgotten.
I love how the Hive’s process of gaining power is just a pyramid scheme.
In summary, the Hive have the most effective pyramid scheme I've ever heard of in my life.
Dang, Byf beat everyone to first comment.
Byf: Game was rigged from the start
It’s Byf! HE was the Final Shape from the start!!
@@JamesZ32100You take a sip from your trusty Vault 13 canteen.
😂
So I don't think a guardian with a ghost would need to kill if they ingested a worm cause I believe it says somewhere that the hive light bearers have their worms feeling satiated with the light
Byf, simple explanation, a tithe is a TRIBUTE, NOT a TAX!!
I find it interesting the Hive worm look like baby hive more then Worm Gods
At this point I'm more curious on what hive magic counts as in the scope of ethereal energies
I think it's just a technique made possible by the Darkness. Hive magic involves ritual, intent, and belief (in the sword logic) which are all psychic facets. Similarly, to become the Witness, the precursor race ritualistically sacrificed themselves and joined their minds using the Darkness. Unlike the Light, it seems you can use the Darkness without manifesting a physical element, so its potential applications are wide and more subtle.
@@dembro27 I can understand your point but I think its more complicated than that like the psychic energies of the psions in the cabal army( more so I think the rituals themselves do not lean light or dark but are just a way to channel the energy into whatever soul fire is treated as )
Us ingesting a hive work would probably be the worse thing we could do but thats kinda what we do now isn't it
what do you think would happen if a hive managed to kill the guardian? how powerful would they be? especially when you think about all the gods and stuff that we have killed in the past
Doesn't the worms of the Lucent Brood not need death because of the Negative Down Pressure of light so I think a Guardian doesn't have to endlessly kill either
I mean technically don’t we already two worms in our arsenal already: Xol and Savathun’s worm. I’m just wondering why we didn’t get a catalyst for the worm launcher
I want to become a hive at the end of this, I want to abandon my metallic Exo frame for a shell of hive chitin, but for now Ill settle with the FotL ornaments and such...
they present savathun as the mastermind but her & xivu owe oryx soooo much.
Basically tithing is the religious version of taxes.
If we actually could devour a worm the question shouldn't be how many would do it, but what could we gain if we could alter it to our own benefit.
What if we don't bind ourselves to the Wom gods through their larvae, but to Ahsa? She could be the Light version of the remaining gods.
Hurray for loopholes!
So what was Savathun’s plan for feeding the worms? It sounded like she had a different plan than what Oryx had.
For a while she was trying to cheat the system by creating perpetual batteries, like the dreaming city's curse reviving those killed endlessly so the fighting could keep going on, or using the time-warping properties of a black hole to skew generation rates like it being 5 years of killing on the inside for 1 hour on the outside, but when those didn't work she did the whole trick supplementing slaughter and blood with secrets and confusion and intrigue, hence things like the imbaru engine and her being the queen of lies.
Eventually she just had us exorcise (forcibly remove/eject it from her body) her worm back during season of the... Lost, I want to say, back before Witch Queen when we were doing all that jazz with the Awoken and the Leylines. She didn't have to deal with it then, thought she died shortly after and was then resurrected.
Eva lavonte just said "I never thought I'd live to see the darkness return"
What does she an the drifter and xur know that they aren't telling us?
Byf can you please do an updated Complete Timeline video?
I'm sure I'm not the only fan of yours that quit playing destiny but is still heavily intrigued by the lore. I just haven't had a chance to catch up on everything.
If you could do another update or like a "part 2 or 3" to the first ones that would be effing awesome.
Is tithing any different from sacrifices in the past to please the gods?
Is the Pail Heart just our throne world?
Can we use them against the Skrank Gang?
So since we are kinda hive now does that mean we can say icher instead of icha?
What about ingesting a worm from Savathuns throne world? Those guys don’t eat at you
Sorry Byf, can't do that. How else am I going to get all those seasonal red borders?
As someone who loves religious text and Theology, this is the sorta stuff I love to see
I have an off the wall theory question. If guardians are immortal and we can die due to starvation over and over again. Does that not sound a lot like the drifters path?
So what actually is the "stuff" we're tithing? Souls?
The last time I heard tithe in a real world sense before wacthing this is that people would donate money to the church to fund construction of more chuches.
I would trade my solar for the ability to hive out. Hive magic is more appealing to me than the generic fire power.
8:00 can anyone tell me what exotic armor he’s using?
crafted
Weren’t tithes also given to rulers in some cultures; such as kings or queens?
I see no one talking about the person in the gameplay footage using lament in ways of blasphemy
hello Byf
I treat magic in Destiny universe similar to the technology in the Destiny universe. We can wield it and infused it with para-causal energy to make it more powerful. As such I would like to be able to actually cast spells as means of fighting, like shooting a gun but instead with magic. Hell, could be treated as abilities instead such as Titans getting a Knight shield, Warlocks getting a shadow sphere, and Hunters getting soul fire grenade. Examples mind you, I would like if it becomes it's own thing.
As for ingesting a worm, I think it's better if we can make a pact with Asha and her family, if she ever gets children that is. If not then we can just use rune's for our spells then infuse the light as the means to empower them.
By that logic, isn't our paracausal abilities equivalent to spells enough for you?
I think most of what Warlocks do at least feels pretty much like magic spells.
For other kinds of spells, we are basically casting hive spells all the time this season, and have been breaking them for even longer.
@@3ndlessL00p
1) I am greedy, it's never enough.
(2 is short answer, 3 is long answer. You have been warned.)
2) While it may be considered spells, it is not. One manipulates energies outside of the universe then channeled through other energies. The other are energies native in our universe following laws within our universe to control them.
3) Hive spells, rituals, and enchantments have been equivalent to science in our universe. They both follow rules in our universe, thus allowing people to use them if they understand those rules. However, just as rose got changed by the light, so to can hive spells.
The Hive spells have existed prior to the introduction to Darkness energy. As such had a different medium to fuel them. It was after the worship of the Worm Gods that ultimately changed their source of energy, that being Darkness.
(Correct me if I am wrong) It was only till recently that the Lucent hive were the first in existence to use Light as a source of energy for their spells.
As such it can be concluded that Hive spell craft can be altered by para-causal energy just as our weapons and armor.
Now, as for the argument that we have been casting spells in this season. Yes on paper but in practice that's not enough. I don't see no fireballs being thrown now do I? (Don't even mention those solar basketballs, yes it fits but so does Rasputin's Warminds but no one called them fireballs now do they?) The closest we got to casting spells that I accepted was when we fought the Leviathan Eater at the end of the season when we cast a Hive dome. Activating those rituals was the same as starting any other encounter, so while yes it was a spell, it wasn't significant enough that I would have considered it a spell. It was just re-flavoring how one starts the encounter.
When I think of casting spells, I am thinking we have a sorta rune system on a separate tab, like how we have a tab for what resources we have on our character and another tab for our achievements. I am think we have one where we have access to 20 runes to start off with but we have 3 slots for the runes to go into before it can create a spell.
Depending on the order determines the outcome of the spell. We can only have access to 5 spells at a time. If we want to change the spell, then we need to change the runes on our Rune tab. Sense it is time consuming, we can have a "Journal" that records the spells we create. So over time we have our very own Spell Book! So it's important to research the combinations outside of combat and for load out lock out, we could just lock access to the Spell Book and prevent changing the Runes for the 5 spells.
Now, I know this is basically creating an entire new system to use in game. And I also know this isn't something Bungie can create overnight. This is adding something that belongs for a whole new game, like D3. But regardless this is my desire, after all I am greedy.
17:30, What's the point of a guardian to want hive magic using worms?
We have already defeated Rhulk, the destroyer of worms. We could simply study the disciple's way of obtaining power without needing these middle layers 🤷
What I wonder is that given eris became the god of vengeance, I wonder if someone could do something much more inherently good. Such as altruism. Hive magic works off of shows of dominance, but if twisted correctly, perhaps you could say that being in a place to help someone shows some fashion of being in a superior position.of course you are not superior inherently but you could try to spin it that way
Hive are intergalactic Mafia
Every video seems to be edited in a way that allows for a sponsored segment. Clever, but having to pay attention to the first 30seconds of a video to make sure there's no ad, gets slightly old.
And yes, nothing anyone says or does will stop me skipping sponsors. I'm here for lore, not an ad that 1 out of 5 times is either bs, suspect, or straight up a scam.
I dunno about factor 75, might be trustworthy and not stupid spenny, but I know for sure how much food is in the shop down the road, so no thanks, I'ma shop local.
I feel like eris should’ve used her powers and rebuilt Luna with the help of the help of the cabal and house light
We got different priorities for the time being. We can rebuild once we are no longer fighting to stop the ending of the universe as we know it.
Treat the artifact with caution and destroy it you say? Best i can do is making it an exotic glaive.
So to summarize… Oryx built a pyramid scheme.
Yup, read that title ENTIRELY wrong.
Granted, I think the whole worm connection is due to the staff and not being a part of us physically. We're connected to it due to the use of the staff and connected to Eris because of her creation of it and specifically using it to link us for the tithing and nothing else.
Can we include 40k Tithes?
Remember in England you could pay your taxes in eels. Food is valuable.
Ah I don't know, it has also been reported that lightbearing hive no longer have to feed their worms. Pretty sure it's alright, mah girl Eris got this.
Even Nimrod, son of Kush, the mighty bowman, charged his vast clover empire with the tithe of souls. His idol was never truly satiated…
So basically if anyone was watching tv in the 90s the hive are basically like Highlanders.
My Guardian loves tequila, but he will not eat the worm.
How is a Hive worm gonna fit inside of a human, besides the human themselves growing bigger from the sword logic's strength.
I think a Guardian *could* consume a worm to gain paracausal power, but why would they? They already have paracausal power. A lightless Guardian would have something to gain though. The worms enable the tithing system, but a Guardian looking for power wouldn't want that unless they were also going to have a bunch of underlings tithing to them. A single guardian with a worm is just a worse version of a normal guardian. But a single guardian with a worm and a brood of their own, tithing to them. Thats a big deal. We've already seen a non-hive do something to that effect. The mindbender.
I think there's 2 worms in the staff
All this talk about disposing of hive worms makes my plush feel nervous
Hey! Rahool is involved in the story! And it only took 2 base games, 10 years, 20 seasons, and 12 expansions! Speak not indeed!
Makes the Hive sound a little like a pyramid scheme xD
Guardians who 'consume' a Hive Worm become bound to the same bargain, and must be true to themselves, lest their worm devour them. Guardians who do this become Hive, not Guardians, and who knows what becomes of their Light. We are NOT a different Lucent Brood!!
Please tell me that you don't use the lament like that all the time😢