New vs Old Civic Type R: In Depth Showdown!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
- We pitted the new 2023 Civic Type R against a 2021 Civic Type R. On paper the FK8 is similar to the new FL5, but how do they drive? What are the real-world differences?
We spent some time in both and performed a back-to-back comparison to see if it's worth paying a premium for the 2023 and how these two hot hatches stack up in real life.
Thanks to David and Counterspace Garage for lending us his stock 2021 FK8. It had 18" TWS wheels and all season tires, but otherwise stock.
0:00 2021 Civic Type R Overview and specs
1:20 2021 Civic Type R Driving impressions
6:45 2023 Civic Type R Overview and specs
8:38 2023 Civic Type R Driving impressions
15:57 Interior Comparison
18:05 Thoughts on daily driving the 2023
18:50 2021 vs 2023 Civic Type R Conclusion
--------------------
✔️ Join our second channel - RevMatchTV2
bit.ly/2Pa92uX
✔️ Follow me on Instagram
/ revmatchtv
✔️ Follow me on Twitter
/ revmatchtv
❤️ Patreon
/ revmatchtv
🔔 Subscribe here!
goo.gl/PtXmbn
► Vehicle Reviews
bit.ly/3vX8knZ
► 2019 Supra Playlist
goo.gl/TnS7Nb
► C8 Mid Engine Corvette Playlist
goo.gl/RfwgR5
-------------
► Email
revmatchtv@gmail.com
--------------
The Copyright Laws of the United States recognizes a “fair use” of copyrighted content. Section 107 of the U.S. Copyright Act states:
“Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.”
This video may contain certain copyrighted works but which we believe in good faith are protected by law and the fair use doctrine. - Авто та транспорт
I definitely will stay with the FK8 i absolutely love it
Current fk8 owner here; I like what they did with the FL5, but after what it took to get the fk8 at MSRP, I'm happy with sticking with what I got lol
FK8 is a great car
Great comparison & review!! Just sub'd.
Thank you!
I’m an FK8 owner and I love both cars. This video is my first on the channel and ty for great content. New subscriber here!
Glad you enjoyed it! I’ll try to do more FK8 content. That car is used daily and it’s 40 miles away in LA traffic, so unfortunately it’s not the easiest to borrow.
@@revmatchtv I’m in Ventura county. Let me know!
Excellent analogies!
The feeling being like” Little nibbles, like a mouse”…brilliant description!!
I really enjoyed this review 💪🫶
Like cheese? 🐭😅
@@revmatchtv Of all the foods included on the mouse menu, chocolate is hands-down the favorite, followed closely by peanut butter. In fact, candy including the combination of the two is almost irresistible to a mouse. Other food items such as bird food, pet food and cereal are also high on the list of preferred mouse foods.
Sooo, more like this than cheese 😂😂😂
I always felt my FL5 is like an FD2 mixed with an EK9 Modernized. The FK8 is more of an evolution of the FK2 style gundam design. All are awesome.
It's meant to be a hot hatch. The old one nailed it for me looks awesome . Nothing hot about this new filterd one😂
its more of a type R accord now
Both fantastic cars, both look great, sound great, and feel amazing to drive.
fl5 is more refined but fk8 will still get more attention
FK8 and then invest the savings on tuning it , you will have a monster car
I put 265 18 Pilot Sport S all seasons on my 2021 FK8 with Titan 7 wheels. A lot more grip than the stock wheels/tires. BTW, those same tires on stock wheels cost over 2k for a new set vs $1200 for a set of 18 Pilot Sport S. Sure, I spent 2k on rims, but better handling and good luck riding on stock wheels in the winter. Look cool too. One pothole and you're done with stock wheels with the thinnest stock tire ever on a production car on the FK8. Stock wheels looks cool though IMO. Not impressed with the Continentals however. Wear out in 10k and have less than impressive grip for summer tires. Glad they ditched them on the new one.
No one ever complained about the FK8 riding too rough. Very pleasant actually unless you're in +R mode. The Honda lead engineer told Savage Geese that they intentionally made the suspension tighter on the FL5 for better track times. If you don't care about that, the FL5 doesn't do much for you besides look better (which is of course subjective).
It's quite the mixed bag driving the FK8 around. Mostly younger people like the way it looks, older people not so much. I didn't actually like it either in 2017, but it grew on me. And it's fun as hell to drive. More so than the MS3, 2018 Si, and 2011 STi I had before it. Can't beat the 2007 MS3 I had bang for the buck though. 25k out the door and it ripped. Burned through tires like they were going out of style though with all the torque steer. Still, fun as hell and looked like a regular Mazda 3 to cops and the lay person. For any of these, I recommend getting a radar detector, laser jammer, and run Waze when driving around. Combo has saved my ass time after time.
I think the new one looks better, but I'm not blowing 20k+ for effectively a nicer interior and better looking exterior. For that amount, I'd just get a Audi RS3 since I'm old now and you can make mad power fairly cheaply in a RS3. Yeah, won't handle as well, but I'm not out-handling people on the street very often, although I have on on-ramps from time to time. These cars only need the stock Hondata tune and you're keeping up or beating my old 400 AWHP STi. Just not in low speed tight turns. So yeah, it may "only" be a Civic, but the performance is no joke. Most expensive, high performance car owners won't nail it because it costs too much to risk wadding it into a wall, only Hellcats and crappy old modded Mustangs for the most part go hell bent, so you're pretty much in the top 10% on the road even in a stock Type R. Which of course is quite entertaining. Speaking of, egged on a Hellcat last week, blew me the F-away on the highway. Impressive. Of course I knew that would happen, I just wanted to hear that supercharger whine. Super cool. Just be careful out there and don't be stupid about it.
Fk8 grew on me too! I like most things about the fl5 except for how the front looks. The front is so ugly. The interior is the biggest upgrade in my opinion.
The main difference is that you can get a really nice FK8 for around 40k. Good luck on getting a FL5 under 51k.
Is 5k ADM pretty typical?
@@revmatchtv believe it or not $5k is on the low end. Average seems to be $7500-10000, and California dealerships want $15-25,000. The first few sold for over $30,000 ADM. even as of yesterday, a dealer called me from corona wanting $70,000 out the door for an FL5… so dealership are killing any desire for this car for me. Hope the US made integra Type S is more readily available, they’re only bringing 2,000 FL5s per year instead of the 8,000ish per year for the last Gen. That lack of availability might explain part of the markups but, sadly, it’s just Honda dealership greed.
It’s nuts, people that get one under 10k over msrp consider it a good deal. And don’t forget all the accessories, protection and insurance plans they make you buy to get the car.
@@prm5798 originally I sold my FK8 planning to get an FL5 but at these prices I can pick up a brand new BMW M2, and most of all BMWs right now are being sold at MSRP, even in California.
@@KealeyOnCars $70K is a base C8. Ridiculous.
I like the old model.
Great video! I'm actually thinking of getting a FL5 but the local dealers here in WA are asking for 60k on used ones (well, the mileage is low but still). Just curious if it's possible to get one at or even close to MSRP somewhere
Call dealers out of state is your best bet. If you do a lot of legwork and put down deposits, you might find one
my very first look at it I thought the new Type R was boring...I like busy interior(and exteriors) and the fk8 was spot on, but this is growing on me now...and it also seems to be better engineered over the mk8...well done Honda👍✌
it looks like a honda accord now. they jacked that part up.
I'm so glad they finally simlified the design again. Somewhat reminiscent to the simpler designs of the classic Type-R's.
Very pleasing.
Good job, Conan
I’ve owned an FK8 and now the FL5! The FL5 drives so much better and feels way more refined. In person it looks amazing as well. Pictures don’t do justice
Could you please elaborate on the difference?
Maybe, the question is... Does that refinement you're talking about worth the price difference ?
2021 OEM tires are 245/30 and the wider 265 aftermarket tires attribute to the handling difference? Looks like it is lowered as well.
It was raining pretty hard so I didn’t get into handling, but they certainly felt very similar. I’d expect the FL5 will have slightly more abilities on track. The only proper way to compare this would be on the same tires as you pointed out. It’s not lowered but it has 18” wheels with higher profile tires so visually it looks a bit different
Now that the Integra Type S has been announced it might be worth holding out to see what it has to offer. The FK8 does seem more track focused and the Integra brings more daily driver amenities to the table (heated seats, premium audio system, likely more comfortable ride quality based on the stance/positioning of the wheels to chassis).
The Type S seems like the better daily compromise with more amenities and a more upscale interior
The FL5 just broke the neubering German track record for fwd. What you mean lol
I want this car meaning the fl5 but if I won’t be able to get I think I will geg the fk8 I love both how they look and that it is still manual
I'll wait for the market to settle on the new FL5. If not a FK8 for me.
Does the FL5 feel bigger than the FK8? Size wise with the extra/length width? I imagine the extra 70 pounds are not noticeable on the fl5. Thanks for making this comparison!
Feels the same size. Front cabin feels roomier but it’s the same
The fl5 has way better visibility
The FL5 is a wider chassis, they made it more for track on the re-engineering from the FK8
I have fk8, I would upgrade all day long for that interior, seen this in the flesh I’m black and I must say I like it a lot, if I had surplus cash I would go and buy at Msrp not a penny over
It’s a fantastic car, but personally I will not pay much ADM on a vehicle. My friend got one for $2500 over.
Before watching the video, imo the 2021 looks better. I like the back end of the 23 though
Both awesome and not really good to compare in some ways, rather appreciate for what they are
Thanks for the video. I am considering buying a Honda Type R or GR 86 as my first sports car. I know they are not comparable with one being a front wheel drive and turbo charged, and the other being rear wheel drive but naturally aspirated, but since you have driven both and have a GR86, which would you recommend as a more fun first sports car? Thank you, your opinion would be highly appreciated.
You’re right, they are not really comparable. The GR86 is a more traditional sports car, but the back seat is entirely useless. It’s for 1-2 people only. It’s a great car. If you need any degree of practicality, the Honda is the better choice. Both are very fun and engaging to drive. In city traffic the Honda will be more fun as it has nearly 100hp over the 86. The 86/BRZ is a classic, back to basics sports car that’s going to be easier to find with less ADM. The Honda is a better all round choice and it’s got more visceral thrills with the additional power and stickier tires, but you’re going to pay quite a bit more for it as it’s got pretty limited production for 2023.
Thank you. I just checked with my Honda dealer here in Bahrain and they said they wont be importing the Type R any time soon. So i guess its the GR86, but the wait time is going to be 8 months. I guess as a first sports car I want to see what a rear wheel drive car is like.
@@hghori1 I waited 11 months to get my GR86. You can also try with Subaru for the BRZ. They are easier to get in North America than the Toyota for some reason.
the 2021 look muuch better, love ittt
That’s why I prefer 100 times fk8 cause it looks sporty and turn people head 👍🏼
The FK8 is also faster in a straight line than the FL5 surprisingly.
New type r looks much cleaner. Wish I could take off the spoiler though
how do you recommend learning heel-toe, buy a cheap used car to practice? I drove manual for 15 years but never knew about it until recently lol
You haven't driven a classic Alfa before then. The gas and clutch pedals are very close to one another to facilitate heel-toe. That allows the rev to be maintained while shifting, allowing acceleration out of corners.
You can learn on any manual car with a decent pedal box. Miata, BRZ, Mustang have good placement
@@kenc8359 yes i had 2000 subaru sedan from 2005 to 2021! I ripped down 60 miles of gravel road in Oregon once
FL5 looks like a normal family Sedan like Accord/corolla/lexus sedans styles
nothing about the body says WOW
unlike the FK8 looks agressive and a very well looking sports car
Overall I prefer the FL5, but the FK8 has way more boy racer looks, and looks are quite subjective.
The new model looks so much better not a cartoon car with fake stuck on bodykit notvreal panels did from a normal civic
On the 2021, I dislike wax on the windshield.
After seeing the integra type S imo it looks way better than both of these cars i wanted a type R but now i dont think so
Unlike the new Golf R , Honda really improved their Type R .
This new the FL5 Type R is the best overall fun hot hatch you can get in the market.
Improved not so much the performance. FL5 is barely or if any quicker than the fk8.
@@davothegreat9990 FK8 is faster in a straight line than the FL5...the Integra Type-S is also faster than the FL5.
Golf R DSG with AWD will destroy the Honda civic in daily driving
easily the best take I've seen so far - everyone over exaggerates how much better the fl5 is in comparison to the fk8. Yes, its better as it should be however not by much. not enough to spend the 70k Cad price tag its being put with. Personally, If i owned an fk8, id keep it much longer than the fl5 as its so much more of a collectible car - type R's were always the flashy cars from Japan that caught the eye of everyone - the mature look kinda waters the car down for me kinda like the Golf R being insanely quick for a hatch back but if you saw it on the road and didn't know it was a golf R, you'd easily underestimate it. Meanwhile the FK8 gets the respect it deserves from the get go.
To me, the biggest improvement is the interior. If you track the car, the cooling is better too, but you’ll still need an oil cooler. Otherwise, it’s difficult to improve on the FK8 because if’s such a solid player out the gate.
very true - I luckily found a 2021 fk8 with 8000km's so luckily they improved the cooling on the 2020+ models but The first "upgrade" i will do will still be better cooling. Everyone seems to be having cooling issues on track. In fact even the new one, even with the improved cooling, was having issues on track. An aftermarket one is necessary and will hopefully fix this. But other than this issue, both these cars are perfect. if you want a better drivers car than both of these then the only cars above will be probably a gr86, m2 Competition and higher. I wanted the new FL5 and had a deposit for it but they pretty much told me only 400 units were coming to canada every year for next 4 years.. so the price tag is going to be too high. :( @@revmatchtv
@@quicktoreason2722 Oil temps are much more important than water temps on track. Invest in high quality cooler such as Greddy and make sure the temps stay below 250F/120C at the most
You make it seem like it’s so easy to find the new Type R.
Near the end of the video I said it would be difficult to find one without markup. Sadly, it's limited production for the US in 2023.
@@revmatchtv Even with a markup, it's so hard to find! :(
@@justforcommenting205 There should be more production for 2024, but it’s always going to be an in-demand vehicle like the FK8
Honda did it wrong going to bland with the fl5 you can’t even notice it much on the streets as a track focust car like the fk8 , look what they did to the new integra type s it has way better track focus look to it and its very different to the regular integra not like the fl5 which looks like a regular hatchback with a ebay spoiler stuck on it
FK8 👍
No, its just rain.
Nice car comparison.
FK8 or FL5? Which ones are for you guys? I always like the FK8.
I like the interior of the FL5 much better. Dynamically, they are similar. The FK8s great and the FL5 takes it up a little bit. If you track it, it has an improved cooling system.
I have a 2017 R. I just raced a new 2023 R and we was side by side. 😆 I have intake, exhaust, and hybrid shifter.
FL5 looks SO much better. Simple clean cohesive design will always age better than something with creases and vents all over the place. I think it’s one of the best civic designs ever.
The FK8 has no exhaust valve and the engine noise you hear comes from the speakers in both cars.
The FL5 has an exhaust valve and augmented speaker sounds as well. Appreciate the FK8 info.
Turbocharged rice cooker
@@JordynElektra correct but the shown FK8 is a 2020/2021 facelift model
Fk8 only introduced fake engine noises in year 2020+. So 2017 to 2019 had no fake engine noises.
Fl5 also has the same fake engine noise. (Honda Active Sound (tm))
@@JordynElektra no exhaust valve system from the factory! You can buy an exhaust valve system from aftermarket for the FK8.
The fk8 looks like a ricer car but for some reason it looks badass in person
The fl5 looks more like how a Honda car should’ve always looked like but looks like a soccer mom in person 😐
I choose the fk8
older design was so much nicer. just preferred less fake vents
So the fl5?
Yea I would rather keep bolt Ons on the Fk8 than upgrade. #Porsche + #honda = pkd+R 😅 honda’s first true automatic transmission for the #typer
Gr corolla 😈
FK8 is better, specially for the price and FK8 feels more typeR than the FL5. I regret selling my FK8.
5% increase but 20% price increase. The price doesn't match what they give you.
Where can I even get a new 2021 type r?
One of life's deep mysteries
@@revmatchtv man im having so much trouble finding anything that hasn’t been modified already
Thinking on selling my 2021 with only 7500 miles🤔🤔
In Germany 57000-69900 €...
2021 look better like me when I see a sexy girl 👍..the 2023 look like me when I wake up 😑
😂
He mentions that solid feel, its because of the seam welding. its the reason why a Civic will never be a Type R.
That is not the correct price. 44k - 48k for fk8 and 62k to 70k fl5.
Ja , ich fahre den Fk8 . Es ist ein Auto , wo du eigentlich nicht mehr aussteigen möchtest . Vielleicht zum Pinkeln oder eine Zigarette zu rauchen . Und es gibt dir das sichere Gefühl , das du in jeder Kurve noch eine Schippe drauf legen kannst .
Genau ! Kollege. Habe meinen seit 2018 und bin einfach nur Happy! Jedes Jahr mindestens 2mal am Ring für ein Wochenende. Der neue ist zwar wesentlich aufgeräumter im Innenraum und von aussen ziemlich unauffällig .Ein definitiv gutes Auto! Aber der Preis ist einfach eine Frechheit. Ich weiss nicht was sich Honda dabei gedacht hat für den wohl letzten offiziellen reinen Benziner und seiner treuen Kundschaft so einen Arschtritt zu verpassen. Für so viel Kohle kaufen sich andere einen Audi oder BMW. Ich definitiv nicht!!! Ich behalte meinen Fk8 und freue mich jedes mal wenn sich gerade die ärgern, wenn ich sie mal wieder überhole 😂
@@flenndoch1353 20685 ?
Ggvbn 0:07
Problem with the new one is that it went down the expensive and bland route. If you want something subdued and chill for the street you get a Mk8 Golf, which eats alive this thing on the straights and is not far behind on the bends, and that's without a tune, which on the german give plenty of extra power for little money
I’m working on trading my Nissan for type R 😅
Coz in the new one they play exhaust sound through the speaker ffs
74k for the new type r where I am...dealership markups
I miss the old days when dealer markups were only on cars a little higher up the food chain.
@RevMatchTV It's funny all the markups are for the 'affordable' market. Cuz the cars are popular and hard to get. Yet I can walk over to the Lexus dealer and pick up an IS 350 for msrp which is cheaper than a civic type r with markup.
Fk8
Miata gearbox better than Honda’s ? Respectfully disagree being that I own both
Civic landwhale lol
New one looks like an accord
Thumbnail says the 2023 Civic is $44k 😂😂😂
One can dream!
Did he just call the GR86 and Miata “track cars”? 🤣
Absolutely!
@@revmatchtv too damn funny bro. They’re far from being track cars lol. Unless you like slow cars, then go for it…
I don’t think worth MSRP + 25000 USD!
Absolutely not. It’s an excellent mid 40s car all day long.
@@revmatchtv Well, if the MSRPis 43000, there is no point to put another 25000 for a Honda !!!
Sound is subjective. So less traction because of the stiffness less of a daily driver
Interior is superior in its simplicity and modern inspiration however not worth the ridiculous markup
Definitely not worth markup, but I love the new interior
There no comparison to which one is softer - its the previous generation - and its not even close.
The "Old" is it.
Fk8>fl5.
44000 USD? Wow. It's fxxkin 57000 gbp in UK ffs and sold out everywhere. U simply can't get it meh smh
2023 $55000 *
Elephant in the room.
Both not affordable to the common enthusiast.
As they always were in the past. Even the Civic Si 29k MSRP
RIP
Sadly, prices have gone way way up in the last decade for all vehicles.
@@revmatchtv false you can get a elantra N for mid 30k you can get similar competition for 15k less.
@@Lemonshamp00 How are you going to argue that vehicle prices haven't gone up in the last 10 years? Wasn't that the point of your original comment? I'm confused.
@@revmatchtv NIssan Z 55k+ used to be affordable(30k), CTR 45k+, MSRP for Civic SI(29k), Corolla GR 48k+, etc
what's so difficult to figure out?
@@Lemonshamp00 Yes - we totally agree on this. Why are you being so aggressive? What are you trying to prove when we both agree on your point?
Ah finally, a Civic which wont make my eyes bleed anymore.
General public seems to love how fk8 looks
If you want to go under the radar/not be noticed, fl5 will probably work in your favour
Best comment here.... Honda provided paper bags to hide your face with every fk8 😂
@@g0d182 The general public generally have no clue about the meaning of continuity.
The interior of the FL5 is superior though in my eyes. The exterior is always a debate.
I wouldn’t pay over 40k for a fwd grocery getter..😂
I would rather buy a 2023 Bmw 240i Xdrive by far better car than this Fwd overhyped/ overpriced accord
Lol you mean 45k and 55k
U.S. finally gets the Civic Type R, but the jokes on us because we got the ugliest of them all. 4 door version that looks like a steroided Toyota Prius.
New one looks boring vs the old one .
First
Boom! Enjoy!
No way is it worth upgrading. Wait for the next gen.
It's very likely this is the last fully ICE CTR. I'd guess the next gen might be a hybrid or maybe even full EV.
@@revmatchtv I think they’re bluffing. They know ICE sells sport cars. Time will tell.
Dang the new one is so ugly.... 😢
Ugly Hondas that look like stretched hatchbacks. Honda was probably afraid to make a real hatchback. Manual cars don't make good daily drivers in city traffic. Interior looks cheap too.
Design is subjective, but practicality is what the market wants.
Hater is subrrb car
I believe the 2024 impreza beats this in terms of back storage
You're probably right, but the CTR is just a teensy bit more fun!
I just think the fk8 has so much personality compared to the fl5 looks wise. It's very aggressive, but not over the top. The fl5 looks kinda generic.
It still has major wheel hop and the car I virtually perfect and better than previous model but wheel hop is there especially in wet. Anyone know if there's a fix say powerfkex bushes and aftermarket suspension mods that aren't to expensive and will improve car not do it harm in anyway!!??? Overall superb car I had the very first civic type r also previous model to latest and this car is so much better apart from wheel hop. If wasn't for that you would keep pace with some Porsche models easy it so quick high to end lovely interior which shames previous model better car info screen yet plenty manual controls on the right things ...looks so much better than any previous models etc etc I love it but need get rid of the wheel hop to make it perfect!!!!!??? Please any one with good knowledge or power flex knowledge plus tr
Just do a rear motor mount and it should help heaps. Lots of good brands
44k plus dealership fees making it 48k for a fwd Civic.........