I miss some of the unrehearsed chemistry you guys have in things like Two Takes. I’m skeptical about the CTR due to its limited production and not enamored with it as an affordable pick.
I like comparisons but the music is distracting to me. I also skipped the podcast section because I didn’t want to hear it again or skip it when I get to the podcast
Guys more of this format! This was awesome. The intro with Matt brought me back to the OG days. Production was great and love the in-studio breakdown afterwards. More more more!
Comparisons are awesome you could even add in some new affordable enthusiast cars that have been modified like ECU tunes etc or with simple affordable bolt ons... Could approach the suppliers of these add-ons and then find people with the vehicles to addon too: make the content around it. I bet you would have insane views on stuff like that👌
This format was so much fun! A very entertaining change up from the normal format! I enjoy the extra personality in it! I think that’s what made original TG so engaging is making fun of things, throwing a personality twist on things, and really just saying what you think! I especially like the studio break down at the end! Keep it up!!!
I enjoyed the new format, seems the semi scripted conversation works well for you guys and it flows more naturally from y’all than other channels utilizing something similar :) I’m not personally in love with how the music plays in/out but I see what y’all are going for.
The music is not bad, but it could use better editing. Don't put music in sections where you're actually discussing the car (vs. making Clarkson-eque exclamations of vehicular-induced excitement), and don't put it into a beat where it's only playing for 5 seconds. Other than that, I think the music does add some flavor and feel to exterior shots.
I'm a A90 supra owner and agreed with the format and review completely. It was honest and very respectful towards both cars. In my opinion they are different cars with different purposes. I've been thinking of trading on my 4 runner for a CTR and keep my A90 project. Thanks again for the review and the feedback!
Love that you guys are taking a shot and trying to make the type of content you always talk about wanting to make. Great choice on cars aswell very different approaches to the same end goal with different priorities. Also love that you guys include a studio segment as it leans into how killer you guys perform in studio for the podcast.
Overall really like the new format, feels like a mashup of one take and the podcast. I think head 2 head comparison really helps bring out the details on a car more than just a one take. The only things I would change is a few less back and forth in the driving section so that each segment in one car is a bit longer. The other small thing would be to reduce the volume of the music in the driving sections.
Love the format! I feel like the end with the scoreboard and podcast studio talk really ties it all in nicely and let’s us have some of that camaraderie from two takes that I love . I do feel that the background music needs to be ironed out but it has its place in some parts of the video with dialogue. Love the new format overall.
Thank you for making this content! Having a history with manual Minis, GTI's and a BMW M235i, I love this category of compact affordable sporty cars. Sad to see them go as time goes on, but thanks Matt and Zac for highlighting what makes them so great.
This format is great. Cool to see you guys trying new stuff. I love the old style as well. I’m just happy to hear you two talk about and drive fast cars.
Love this video guys! The breakdown at the end was excellent as well. Hope to see more in this format. I looked at both of these as a third car but ultimately thought neither was special in a significant way so I bought a low mile C6 Z06 and couldn't be happier.
@@shad3128 I'm very thankful for everything I've worked for and proud to owe nothing on them at 32. Many blessings your way! The C6 has been great so far, my Evo is still king of the garage though haha
Love this format! Honestly I’ve always driven manuals but I still love my 22 Supra and its 8speed auto. I think it’s an incredible transmission and that car wasn’t made to be a stick.. I think it’s great they did!! Personally I’d rather buy 997 Porsche 911 (or an s2000) as a second car than trade my Supra in for a manual. I’ve been spoiled by some incredible manual transmissions in previous cars and if I’m gonna buy another I want it to be the best manual you can buy sub 100k 😂 as always love the channel!
Loved this new format! Adds dynamism and makes it more entertaining. You should also consider reuniting back at the studio after a review, to chat about the car and make comparisons with some sort of scoreboard.
Because either vehicle would be a 2nd car for me, I would choose the Supra. While the engine is more common, I subjectively just think it sounds so good with simply an aftermarket downpipe. All other comparisons seem rather close. Also, I know Matt really did not care for the 2021 auto Supra, so looks like Toyota made some worthwhile updates. If the civic was easier to obtain (huge dealer waitlists), I would be tempted to get the R. But, currently I’m 2nd in line to get the Supra so I will stick with that! Both awesome cars, props to both manufacturers for spending time developing their enthusiast vehicle’s inputs and feedback
Since I have a family the Civic wins. But the fact that youre comparing a stock civic to a stock supra is also a win for Honda. This is the first video I've seen of yall but I like the format. I expected the outcome tho. The price difference and practicality of the Honda, plus its a Honda which never die, is more worth the price. BMW isn't really known for their reliability. I haven't heard much bad about the Supras tho so there is that.
Regarding the anticipated Ring time for the GR Supra (7 min 40sec) by the Chief Engineer, this was in reference to the first year GR Supra with the 335rwhp B58. The 2021MY+ GR Supra with the 382rwhp B58 and revised suspension/steering/differential tuning should be notably quicker.
Really liked the format. Some great shots in this video. The conclusion you guys came to was entertaining and very funny . A steady cam rig for the walk around or tripod for the panning shots would be the only criticism. I hope this format gets more algorithm traction. I would love to see a combo of this format and one takes with maybe an annual all cars style special. Good luck guys
Love this hybrid format! I think the rapport we've come to like from the podcast and two-takes works really well here. The in-studio wrap up is my favorite addition, since I love hearing about these cars in the podcast eps. Here, we get a bit of variation and a more 'rigid' and 'polished' version of chatting on the podcast. Personally, I love the VO intro, classic comparo format, and I honestly haven't watched some TST vids (the new SL comes to mind - just not a relatable car to me), but I'd be way more inclined to watch with this format and if you did SL vs. M8 to get more bang for my buck and a more entertaining vid. Excellent job and I love how y'all continue to evolve.
Biased but agree with Zack, think the type r is more of a true enthusiast car. Honda stuck to their formula for the type r, supra is great but true to the original shit we had to beg them for a manual transmission.
Only affordable stick shift I know of is the mazda miata. Both the supra and the type R are selling for porsche money from the dealerships because of markups, so you're better off just buying a manual porsche instead of a supra or type R.
you can get the Supra MT if you're diligent. Have a buddy that walked into a dealer here and bought one a couple weeks later for right around msrp. That said, Type R is a different story, as-is the GR Corolla.
I’d never buy a Porsche unless you can afford to maintain one. Paying 5-8k over MSRP for the FL5 (dealers are selling them at this price you just need to find them) is the better option. It’s cheaper to maintain, track, and still holds its value when you go to resell it.
WRX stick shift, light as the type R, handles, drives and practicality on par or very close to the R. Easy tune leaves the R in the dust. AWD an icing on the cake.
@@marcinfil3673 from a value perspective the WRX is awesome. Right out of the box with no mods, I’d rather spend the money on an older FK8. AWD is nice if you live up north, otherwise it’s just added weight and loss of power to the drivetrain.
I honestly hope this change in format pays off. I love you guys. I like when you change things up to see what works and doesn't work. Been a fan since at least the ~2008 Civic Si Hatch video. It was the first youtube I watched on broadband internet. lol
I think some better field audio would go a long way for this. Getting the little noises like door closing, cold starts and exhaust notes kind of builds the characters of the cars more. Maybe do a half-time meet up where you can both stop on the mountain and discuss the feelings in the moment of each car? Play around with the structure while the format is still new and have fun! Thanks as always for the videos guys.
Please review/revisit the 6th Gen Camaro SS 1LE. NA V8 + Tremac TR6060 + MagneRide + eLSD + proper oil/trans/diff cooling + no dealer markup + great dealer support all across North America! :)
i like how honest at the end of comparing both cars Zac & Matt choose the Type R and interm of practicality and usage the type r wins it seems the type r need the same setup Matt did on his Focus RS, Better softer suspension + greater cooling and power and these aftermarket will take the type r new level. for sure the B58 engine is the easier way to make HP but type r is the one
I personally really enjoyed the 'comparison' format and friendly banter between you guys, I think you have a great dynamic together (hence why I listen to the podcast) and offer some varied perspectives.
I remember buying my first civic si and then wanting a corvette, until i kept going inside my civic si and realizing wow this thing is amazing i dont need rwd
i'm only half way through the video so far and this might be my fav video you have ever done, would love to see more videos like this format! I can tell you put a ton of effort into this one and I appreciate it!
anything 100k is affordable. broke 20year old mentality for used $5k 240s and e36s isn't realistic anymore. A loaded new camry is like 30-40k MSRP now, you think performance vehicles will be 20k new? fucking trolling. expect 40-80k for anything decent nowadays unless u buying used dogshit
First off guys, like a lot of the people mentioned...I love the format. Second, I used to own a FK8 and that car brought a smile to my face every time driving it. The gr supra looks good online and what not...but I must stress, in person that car looks 10 times better! The only thing I wish it had was like the old supra, targa top and 2 + 2 seating.🤔
This format needs a little work, a little refinement, but the increase in production value is a welcome change to the TST reviews. The podcast has often had some more insightful analysis of a car than the videos have, so this merging of the platforms works very well.
I am a rear-wheel-drive car enthusiast. I also need the 3rd pedal manual transmission, and a rip it parking brake. 5 months ago I bought the only 2022 White V8 3rd Pedal 6 Speed Manual Transmission in this combination Mustang; in all of California. It's 2022 Roush Mustang, and S/N:22.0001.450R Great channel 🧑🏻🦱🤘🏻🏎️🏁🚩
This is the final swansong for Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicles, and a few manufacturers have put their best foot forward, which is wonderful to see. There are a fair number of fantastic new vehicles out in the past couple of years and due out in 2023 including these two. Grab them while you can before everything goes EV.
He mentioned reasonably affordable but the price is $55,000 to $60,000 for both cars? What is everyone doing for a living that that's considered affordable? 😅
Like the format of this video, there is a "everyday driver/ throttle house" quality. And I like the debate, honestly a lot of times we see you guys agreeing, and that's fine. But it's nice to see you disagree and go back and forth. Honest question as someone who is in this price range of vehicle, would you buy a CPO Manual M2 Comp over either of these?
I'm more of a listener to the podcast than anything, but I enjoyed this format a lot! I liked having both the in car banter (because I enjoy you and Zack), but also having the more concise, honest comparison at the end. I would watch more stuff like this!
Umm yeah that 2.0 in the Type R is in the accord and Acura suvs as well. Granted it may be slightly detuned and have a smaller Turbo in the other applications but it's definitely not just in the type R. Yes I know Acura and Honda are parent companies.
If it has a different turbo, pistons, crankshafts, etc it's not really the same motor. If they're built on the same block but the internals are different then they have to be differentiated.
I don't care that the Honda "won", but just because the Supra has a BMW engine that isn't unique to just the Supra is ridiculous. Everyone seems to agree that it has a great engine. Isn't that all that really counts?
I think the big thing that was missed in this comparison was "comfort". Why? Because this is supposed to be a shootout of "affordable" cars. Which means people at this pricepoint need their sports car to be comfortable. And not even for just daily driving. But for taking the sportcar on a long weekend (or full week) trip. Yes, the sports car needs to be sporty in the curvy back roads, but it also need to be comfortable when the road (to get to the curves) is dead straight (for hours). Supra is out because it's a sardine can. Hard to get in/out, and cramped when you are in. The Honda is out because some of us live where it snows, no awd, no bueano.
@@BitcoinTo100Kdo you really want a 1,000 Supra for the street? That’s going to be undrivable in normal situations. If you are talking about a Mojave Mile car I get it, but I have no need for that much power in a Supra.
This was a perfect video in this format. Not too much music, you both gave the cars a chance to talk, amd you didn't cut the action clips too short. Bravo, gentlemen.👏
In terms of being fast on a road course, C&D lightning lap had the old CTR at 3:00.7. The 2020 Supra did a 3:01.4, and the '21 did a 2:59.3. The manual is unlikely to have made the Supra faster, but has the Type R gotten 1.4s faster around VIR? I'd say probably so.
That’s the Civic on R compound tires. Put R-compound tires on the Supra and it will drop 2-3 seconds per lap. Or just buy a Camaro SS 1LE that easily beats both of these cars by a significant margin for $45K.
@@GrimSRT8 Also, an SS 1LE is really only a rival on the race track, which most people really just aren't going to. Plus, if we're talking tires, the 1LE comes on very sticky 220TW Supercar 3s. In the real world, the Supra is just as fast light to light, weighs a lot less, and gets way better fuel economy. Plus, it'll be right up there on the same tire for lap times. The back seat brings it back to the Camaro a little bit, but you just can't see out of the damn things, and it's 8" longer than the Supra.
@@noobasdfjkl a road course represents all street performance: handling, acceleration, braking, transitioning, etc. There is no better representation of performance than lap times, and the Camaro SS 1LE solidly beats the Supra 3.0 on the track. Go look at the gap on Lightning Lap, and they never tested the updated 2019+ SS 1LE with the A10 that would post even faster times. GM says the 2019+ SS 1LE would drop 3 seconds from the lap. Some comments from MotorTrend on the SS 1LE after it was lapped on Willow Springs, “The list of cars the Camaro went faster than should embarrass some OEMs: Porsche Cayman GT4, 2014 Audi R8 V10 Plus, Ferrari 458 Italia. I mean, come on! To put it bluntly, the Camaro is in another league, with legitimate supercars.” and went on to say, “Chevy has done the near impossible, transcended the genre, and turned a once provincial pony car into an honest to goodness world-class sports car. This $46,000 miracle punches so far above its weight that I'm in danger of saying weird things that could easily be taken out of context. Such as, if I were an engineer at BMW or even Porsche, I'd be clearing off my drawing boards.” In an article where MotorTrend was comparing the Supra 3.0 to the Nissan Z, they took time to tell the readers to go buy the Camaro SS 1LE, not either of the cars in the test! They make the point that the Camaro drives much better than the Supra or Z, while being less expensive and faster. As for tires, the Supra and SS 1LE use similar types of tires- Ultra High Performance Summer tires, Michelin for the Supra and Goodyears for the 1LE. When I get new tires on my 1LE, I’ll likely be getting Michelin PS4S. If you think visibility is better in the Supra than the Camaro, I’d be shocked. Plus the Camaro has a camera mirror you can get that gets rid of all blind spots. I’m not sure if the Supra does as well, but I’ve driven sports cars for 30+ years and visibility in the Camaro is not significantly worse than other sports cars. It’s no worse than my Corvette. Maybe it’s different for me as I’m tall. On top of all of this, the Camaro is *considerably* less money than the Supra. So, you you may get slightly better fuel economy in the Supra, but the $10K price difference pays for a ton of gas! The SS 1LE will also cost less to insure and cost less to maintain. So what advantage does the Supra have? The Camaro performs better, drives better (according to the professionals), and costs significantly less. And this is coming from a guy who has owned 3 Supra Turbos in his life, and never a single Camaro until now. If the Supra was a better car, I would have bought it.
I think what it really comes down to is what people like beginning with the styling, then moving into the features and mechanics, then further into the track details. In my opinion, the CTR is better than both the Camaro and Supra, simply because it's a do-it-all vehicle with four doors and does pretty damn well at everything. However, I can appreciate both the Camaro and Supra for what they are - both amazing vehicles. Enjoy your Camaro to the fullest, brother!
its true the b58 is not exactly unique but then again so was the 2jz engine toyota put a version of that engine in pretty much everything they build with rear wheel drive layout that they could shove it into like it or not the b58 is very similar to the 2jz even in its general mass marketness and aftermarket support of the engine.
Matt and Zack should be paid millions to have their own TVshow!! These videos are awesome! I mean the good ol' one-takes are amazing and they are a great known quantity, but these videos are awesome! Keep it up guys!! Hopefully this one takes off haha
Very good takes! Interesting video. I've been looking at Type R's for a while they are very fun cars. I will always have a soft spot for supra's though. My best friend growing up had a supra and we had a blast in it.
For everyone arguing about “affordable”. Yes they are relatively affordable for a new enthusiast vehicle. Cars have gotten exponentially more complex over the past 10 years with new safety standards and technology. And considering the average new price of a car is $48,000 I would consider them affordable for the modern era. (Without pesky adm ofc haha)
@@papa_pt that’s skewed higher due to the lack of supply in the used car market. Anyone that takes out a loan longer than the warranty is a fool. And even then buying a new car is dumb in most cases because of how much and how quick they depreciate.
I like this format. Not necessarily change your regular reviews but, rather, augment them with these comparisons. Each of you had your preferences which are great to hear from gear heads. Then the rationalization at the end makes it real world for a daily vs a weekend car. From a guy who had an intega type r almost 20 years ago hearing a civic type r is a acceptable daily is sweet sweet nectar. Wait till full race gets their hands on this new type r, easily 450 bhp!
The addition of music was a courageous choice - and I love it! Whom ever decided to A. Keep the volume low enough to still here the cars sing. And B. Have the music fit the mood of what you're talking about was hella smart!! Keep up the good work guys.
I think criticism of the Supra engine not being unique to the platform is the wrong take for a true sports car enthusiast, especially one that likes to drive hard (track, autoX, drag racing, etc). A deeper availability of parts is one of the bigger factors in my consideration of which platform to get into and it’s the reason why K swaps are so dominant.
Exactly like the 2jz before it was a mass produce engine that was fitted to almost every rear wheel model Toyota could fit it into at the time that was a god sent for parts availability same story with this b58 which is fitted onto pretty every performance and mid spec bmw on sale currently that means millions of spare engine available.
as someone who has owned an fk8 type r, a bmw m240i manual (b58) and i currently own an fl5 type r....your assessments are perfect and i couldn't agree more! great reviews!
I like this format is great!! But….lol i still think that I and my 36 years of age wouldn’t drive a Civic if i was going to buy a sports car!! Not hate to Honda but if was going to buy a hot hatch i rather buy the Golf R
"unique engines" = "Uniquely high repair costs"... I like the Honda. Supra is really quick, but at 6'2", I get neck and back injuries just trying t o get in and out of it. Will be comparing my friends new MT Supra vs. my old (2015) modded S3 with similar power and less weight at the track in a couple weeks.
Think it's a good format having the studio discussion about the topic added onto the end of the review, could be done with comparisons or just single reviews. One thing that stuck out at me was the lack of a transition or handoff (beyond a fade and a brief title card) between the end of the road review and the start of the studio discussion, that seemed like an opportunity to say in the car (or at least in VO) "and now back to the studio" or "we break down our thoughts in the studio", something like that would help. Could even find opportunities for comedy or other mood setting in transitions.
Absolutely. Beautiful. Well written and spoken intro. This should be done in every one take with thos "boiler items" you repeat after few seconds after ad anyway
The previous generation Type R did the Nubergring in 7:43 minutes. A 2022 Mazda MX-5 did the Nubergring in 7:45 minutes. It had an exhaust upgrade, BBR cams and a tune.
Good idea for a format. Still has a bit of the ol One Take vibes sometimes. I think with some massaging you can tighten up the format and it will be great. The bones were there in this one, but it needs some more tweaks (audio, voice over in spots, editing pace etc). But you guys will do it. I like it. Dont ditch the one takes though. EDIT: and YES keep the in studio bit. That is new and fresh and no one else is doing it.
I like the format. Maybe lower music when you’re talking or no music but other than that I rather enjoyed it. Thanks for taking a gamble on the new format. 🎉
I love the format it’s much more engaging than the previous - mostly in car format. For special-single car reviews this would fit nicely to give us a little history lesson behind the development of some cars. I don’t think many other journalists do that currently.
I like this format but I also like the banter and instant impressions and feedback you give each other when you're both in the car and that's kind of what makes this channel this channel. I say keep the old format but sprinkle in some of these comparisons every now and then.
You had me right up to “accentuates the torque curve in a way that can’t be measured”. You’re driving a literal machine. Any power gains or acceleration gains, can absolutely be measured. Making statements to the contrary, makes me immediately tune out. It’s like what magazines have done for decades, when describing speakers. A bunch of superlatives that mean nothing but convince those that know nothing.
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11:05 wait isn't honda fl5 sound fake via Honda Active Sound Control (tm)?
What unique sound is he talking about??
I like the two cars but I prefer you both in the vehicle at the same time.
I like the format. Good to use for some comparisons.
This was awesome. I miss the banter but overall super informative and entertaining stuff.
Love the format. Please please do this
How do you guys like this format?
Ace!
I miss some of the unrehearsed chemistry you guys have in things like Two Takes. I’m skeptical about the CTR due to its limited production and not enamored with it as an affordable pick.
I like comparisons but the music is distracting to me. I also skipped the podcast section because I didn’t want to hear it again or skip it when I get to the podcast
I like this quite a bit. Excited to see it continue
I’d prefer you add background music to the studio part of the video, and have the car be the music during the driving commentary..
This was great. 🤟🏼 keep it up!
Guys more of this format! This was awesome. The intro with Matt brought me back to the OG days. Production was great and love the in-studio breakdown afterwards. More more more!
Awesome!
I agree
Comparisons are awesome you could even add in some new affordable enthusiast cars that have been modified like ECU tunes etc or with simple affordable bolt ons...
Could approach the suppliers of these add-ons and then find people with the vehicles to addon too: make the content around it. I bet you would have insane views on stuff like that👌
Really enjoyed this format, hope they can do something like this with the new Emira and the C8 Stingray or maybe 911 Carrera
felt like /tuned again.
This format was so much fun! A very entertaining change up from the normal format! I enjoy the extra personality in it! I think that’s what made original TG so engaging is making fun of things, throwing a personality twist on things, and really just saying what you think! I especially like the studio break down at the end! Keep it up!!!
I enjoyed the new format, seems the semi scripted conversation works well for you guys and it flows more naturally from y’all than other channels utilizing something similar :) I’m not personally in love with how the music plays in/out but I see what y’all are going for.
The music is not bad, but it could use better editing. Don't put music in sections where you're actually discussing the car (vs. making Clarkson-eque exclamations of vehicular-induced excitement), and don't put it into a beat where it's only playing for 5 seconds. Other than that, I think the music does add some flavor and feel to exterior shots.
I'm a A90 supra owner and agreed with the format and review completely. It was honest and very respectful towards both cars. In my opinion they are different cars with different purposes.
I've been thinking of trading on my 4 runner for a CTR and keep my A90 project. Thanks again for the review and the feedback!
Affordable, before the 10k-20k mark-up.
Exactly.
Not even. They MSRP close to the average new vehicle price but that's only because that includes mostly SUVs and trucks
@@nah3193 So you aren't comparing apples to apples then?
That Type R was at Least $70k, the Supra $70k
@@lrod8692 i bought a 2024 manual preimum 3.0 supra for 58k taxes included into the price
Love that you guys are taking a shot and trying to make the type of content you always talk about wanting to make. Great choice on cars aswell very different approaches to the same end goal with different priorities. Also love that you guys include a studio segment as it leans into how killer you guys perform in studio for the podcast.
Overall really like the new format, feels like a mashup of one take and the podcast. I think head 2 head comparison really helps bring out the details on a car more than just a one take. The only things I would change is a few less back and forth in the driving section so that each segment in one car is a bit longer. The other small thing would be to reduce the volume of the music in the driving sections.
Yeah, music felt very early 2000s action flick
Agreed re: hearing more of the car's operation.
Supra power is insanely underrated. It feels like at least a 420hp 420tq car
The b58 has a great torque curve 🔥🔥
Saw stock 2021 Dyno 410wtq
Love the format! I feel like the end with the scoreboard and podcast studio talk really ties it all in nicely and let’s us have some of that camaraderie from two takes that I love . I do feel that the background music needs to be ironed out but it has its place in some parts of the video with dialogue. Love the new format overall.
Thank you for making this content! Having a history with manual Minis, GTI's and a BMW M235i, I love this category of compact affordable sporty cars. Sad to see them go as time goes on, but thanks Matt and Zac for highlighting what makes them so great.
Motortrend dropped the ball when they cancelled H2H, loved it! Hope you guys do more like this one!
really enjoyed this format, I think a 50/50 balance of this and the normal would work really well
This format is great. Cool to see you guys trying new stuff. I love the old style as well. I’m just happy to hear you two talk about and drive fast cars.
Love this video guys! The breakdown at the end was excellent as well. Hope to see more in this format. I looked at both of these as a third car but ultimately thought neither was special in a significant way so I bought a low mile C6 Z06 and couldn't be happier.
that ls7 sounds so good
@@thehumanoid6543 💯Mine is ridiculous with 2" SW headers X Pipe and Borla Atak exhaust!
Some people struggling to have one car lol blessed dude. Enjoy the c6, amazing cars
@@shad3128 I'm very thankful for everything I've worked for and proud to owe nothing on them at 32. Many blessings your way! The C6 has been great so far, my Evo is still king of the garage though haha
Love this format! Honestly I’ve always driven manuals but I still love my 22 Supra and its 8speed auto. I think it’s an incredible transmission and that car wasn’t made to be a stick.. I think it’s great they did!! Personally I’d rather buy 997 Porsche 911 (or an s2000) as a second car than trade my Supra in for a manual. I’ve been spoiled by some incredible manual transmissions in previous cars and if I’m gonna buy another I want it to be the best manual you can buy sub 100k 😂 as always love the channel!
Digging the throwback format and the addition of the podcast ending!
Loved this new format! Adds dynamism and makes it more entertaining. You should also consider reuniting back at the studio after a review, to chat about the car and make comparisons with some sort of scoreboard.
Because either vehicle would be a 2nd car for me, I would choose the Supra. While the engine is more common, I subjectively just think it sounds so good with simply an aftermarket downpipe. All other comparisons seem rather close. Also, I know Matt really did not care for the 2021 auto Supra, so looks like Toyota made some worthwhile updates.
If the civic was easier to obtain (huge dealer waitlists), I would be tempted to get the R. But, currently I’m 2nd in line to get the Supra so I will stick with that! Both awesome cars, props to both manufacturers for spending time developing their enthusiast vehicle’s inputs and feedback
Since I have a family the Civic wins. But the fact that youre comparing a stock civic to a stock supra is also a win for Honda. This is the first video I've seen of yall but I like the format. I expected the outcome tho. The price difference and practicality of the Honda, plus its a Honda which never die, is more worth the price. BMW isn't really known for their reliability. I haven't heard much bad about the Supras tho so there is that.
Love the new format!
Think it's "just" a special video. There were others in the past.
I would absolutely enjoy seeing more videos in this format. Good stuff, guys!
Regarding the anticipated Ring time for the GR Supra (7 min 40sec) by the Chief Engineer, this was in reference to the first year GR Supra with the 335rwhp B58. The 2021MY+ GR Supra with the 382rwhp B58 and revised suspension/steering/differential tuning should be notably quicker.
6:18 talks about supsension and steering while almost getting a concussion.
Really liked the format. Some great shots in this video. The conclusion you guys came to was entertaining and very funny . A steady cam rig for the walk around or tripod for the panning shots would be the only criticism. I hope this format gets more algorithm traction. I would love to see a combo of this format and one takes with maybe an annual all cars style special. Good luck guys
Cool breakdown but there is absolutely no competition between the 2 cars. The Supra is twice the car and has 3 times the potential
Love this! Would be cool to see you guys drive both cars into WCCS…help the transition from car to conference
Love this hybrid format!
I think the rapport we've come to like from the podcast and two-takes works really well here. The in-studio wrap up is my favorite addition, since I love hearing about these cars in the podcast eps. Here, we get a bit of variation and a more 'rigid' and 'polished' version of chatting on the podcast.
Personally, I love the VO intro, classic comparo format, and I honestly haven't watched some TST vids (the new SL comes to mind - just not a relatable car to me), but I'd be way more inclined to watch with this format and if you did SL vs. M8 to get more bang for my buck and a more entertaining vid.
Excellent job and I love how y'all continue to evolve.
I like this format! Fun drive and good info/discussion in the studio. Thanks guys!
Biased but agree with Zack, think the type r is more of a true enthusiast car. Honda stuck to their formula for the type r, supra is great but true to the original shit we had to beg them for a manual transmission.
Only affordable stick shift I know of is the mazda miata. Both the supra and the type R are selling for porsche money from the dealerships because of markups, so you're better off just buying a manual porsche instead of a supra or type R.
Civic Si, GR86, Veloster N?
you can get the Supra MT if you're diligent. Have a buddy that walked into a dealer here and bought one a couple weeks later for right around msrp. That said, Type R is a different story, as-is the GR Corolla.
I’d never buy a Porsche unless you can afford to maintain one. Paying 5-8k over MSRP for the FL5 (dealers are selling them at this price you just need to find them) is the better option. It’s cheaper to maintain, track, and still holds its value when you go to resell it.
WRX stick shift, light as the type R, handles, drives and practicality on par or very close to the R. Easy tune leaves the R in the dust. AWD an icing on the cake.
@@marcinfil3673 from a value perspective the WRX is awesome. Right out of the box with no mods, I’d rather spend the money on an older FK8. AWD is nice if you live up north, otherwise it’s just added weight and loss of power to the drivetrain.
I honestly hope this change in format pays off. I love you guys. I like when you change things up to see what works and doesn't work. Been a fan since at least the ~2008 Civic Si Hatch video. It was the first youtube I watched on broadband internet. lol
Great job on this head to head / top gear type format. You guys killed it. We want more please.
I think some better field audio would go a long way for this. Getting the little noises like door closing, cold starts and exhaust notes kind of builds the characters of the cars more. Maybe do a half-time meet up where you can both stop on the mountain and discuss the feelings in the moment of each car?
Play around with the structure while the format is still new and have fun! Thanks as always for the videos guys.
Please review/revisit the 6th Gen Camaro SS 1LE. NA V8 + Tremac TR6060 + MagneRide + eLSD + proper oil/trans/diff cooling + no dealer markup + great dealer support all across North America! :)
I own a 2018 SS 1LE manual and it is absolutely amazeballs. Randy Pobst and the Throttle House boys love it as well.
Exactly!
i like how honest at the end of comparing both cars Zac & Matt choose the Type R and interm of practicality and usage the type r wins it seems the type r need the same setup Matt did on his Focus RS, Better softer suspension + greater cooling and power and these aftermarket will take the type r new level.
for sure the B58 engine is the easier way to make HP but type r is the one
The type r looks really good.
Best looking civic ever
I personally really enjoyed the 'comparison' format and friendly banter between you guys, I think you have a great dynamic together (hence why I listen to the podcast) and offer some varied perspectives.
Nice video! It's quite fun that you compare two very different cars. I haven't seen others do that
I remember buying my first civic si and then wanting a corvette, until i kept going inside my civic si and realizing wow this thing is amazing i dont need rwd
i'm only half way through the video so far and this might be my fav video you have ever done, would love to see more videos like this format! I can tell you put a ton of effort into this one and I appreciate it!
This is great! I like the individual reviews but these in between would be incredible! Please do more of this!
Affordable!?
Relatively I guess. It is a Civic
Anything 100k is affordable these days lol
It's all relative
They go over relative affordability in the first minute of the video
anything 100k is affordable. broke 20year old mentality for used $5k 240s and e36s isn't realistic anymore. A loaded new camry is like 30-40k MSRP now, you think performance vehicles will be 20k new? fucking trolling. expect 40-80k for anything decent nowadays unless u buying used dogshit
First off guys, like a lot of the people mentioned...I love the format. Second, I used to own a FK8 and that car brought a smile to my face every time driving it. The gr supra looks good online and what not...but I must stress, in person that car looks 10 times better! The only thing I wish it had was like the old supra, targa top and 2 + 2 seating.🤔
This format needs a little work, a little refinement, but the increase in production value is a welcome change to the TST reviews. The podcast has often had some more insightful analysis of a car than the videos have, so this merging of the platforms works very well.
The hosts are self righteous pricks. Get rid of them and this program will get 100% better.
I am a rear-wheel-drive car enthusiast. I also need the 3rd pedal manual transmission, and a rip it parking brake. 5 months ago I bought the only 2022 White V8 3rd Pedal 6 Speed Manual Transmission in this combination Mustang; in all of California. It's 2022 Roush Mustang, and S/N:22.0001.450R
Great channel 🧑🏻🦱🤘🏻🏎️🏁🚩
I guess nowadays $50k + markup cars are being considered affordable
Sadly that’s the world we live in now
Haha. True. Fuckin ridiculous
Brok boys or? If you make over 150 yearly it is affordable easily
@@quentonmillstid850 so people making less than $150k are “brok boys”?
You say that like it’s a totally normal average salary 😂
Supra needs a couple of little seats in the back for kids
This is the final swansong for Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicles, and a few manufacturers have put their best foot forward, which is wonderful to see. There are a fair number of fantastic new vehicles out in the past couple of years and due out in 2023 including these two. Grab them while you can before everything goes EV.
Good stuff. I went with the Type R for the same reasons...un-paralleled practicality, controls, and visibility in a performance car.
"Performance" 😂
@@kobedabest Chris Harris has driven every car that exists and in 24 hours le mans and he says it’s one of the greatest cars he’s ever driven.
New format was refreshing and entertaining to watch. Added some narrative while still being informative for the enthusiast. Great job!
Love this VS video. Please do more! Love the format! Thanks ST ☺️
I love the supra, so much in fact it joined my f type v6S and 981 Boxster S. The civic type R is a very nice car no doubt!
He mentioned reasonably affordable but the price is $55,000 to $60,000 for both cars? What is everyone doing for a living that that's considered affordable? 😅
Like the format of this video, there is a "everyday driver/ throttle house" quality. And I like the debate, honestly a lot of times we see you guys agreeing, and that's fine. But it's nice to see you disagree and go back and forth.
Honest question as someone who is in this price range of vehicle, would you buy a CPO Manual M2 Comp over either of these?
I like the dual reviewer head to head format.
I'm more of a listener to the podcast than anything, but I enjoyed this format a lot! I liked having both the in car banter (because I enjoy you and Zack), but also having the more concise, honest comparison at the end. I would watch more stuff like this!
Umm yeah that 2.0 in the Type R is in the accord and Acura suvs as well. Granted it may be slightly detuned and have a smaller Turbo in the other applications but it's definitely not just in the type R. Yes I know Acura and Honda are parent companies.
If it has a different turbo, pistons, crankshafts, etc it's not really the same motor. If they're built on the same block but the internals are different then they have to be differentiated.
@@deathcab4bootythe Acura Integra Type S will have the Type R motor
but it's not in the Accord and Acura SUVs in the Type R configuration like Brandon suggested, which was my point
@@deathcab4booty got u
I don't care that the Honda "won", but just because the Supra has a BMW engine that isn't unique to just the Supra is ridiculous. Everyone seems to agree that it has a great engine. Isn't that all that really counts?
I think the big thing that was missed in this comparison was "comfort". Why? Because this is supposed to be a shootout of "affordable" cars. Which means people at this pricepoint need their sports car to be comfortable. And not even for just daily driving. But for taking the sportcar on a long weekend (or full week) trip. Yes, the sports car needs to be sporty in the curvy back roads, but it also need to be comfortable when the road (to get to the curves) is dead straight (for hours). Supra is out because it's a sardine can. Hard to get in/out, and cramped when you are in. The Honda is out because some of us live where it snows, no awd, no bueano.
The Supra is probably more available than the CTR. It is also way underrated in HP.
@@BitcoinTo100Kdo you really want a 1,000 Supra for the street? That’s going to be undrivable in normal situations. If you are talking about a Mojave Mile car I get it, but I have no need for that much power in a Supra.
@@BitcoinTo100K true, but I blew a head gasket in my stock 4th gen Supra TT back in the 1990s, so anything can happen. 😜
Supra all day, every day. But with the zf8. B58 straight 6 is hard to beat even if it's from BMW. It's a great motor.
2:27 my boy jiggled so much lmao
YOOOOOO LMAOOOO
This was a perfect video in this format. Not too much music, you both gave the cars a chance to talk, amd you didn't cut the action clips too short. Bravo, gentlemen.👏
In terms of being fast on a road course, C&D lightning lap had the old CTR at 3:00.7. The 2020 Supra did a 3:01.4, and the '21 did a 2:59.3. The manual is unlikely to have made the Supra faster, but has the Type R gotten 1.4s faster around VIR? I'd say probably so.
That’s the Civic on R compound tires. Put R-compound tires on the Supra and it will drop 2-3 seconds per lap. Or just buy a Camaro SS 1LE that easily beats both of these cars by a significant margin for $45K.
@@GrimSRT8 Cup 2s are definitely not R comps, but I see your point nonetheless.
@@GrimSRT8 Also, an SS 1LE is really only a rival on the race track, which most people really just aren't going to. Plus, if we're talking tires, the 1LE comes on very sticky 220TW Supercar 3s. In the real world, the Supra is just as fast light to light, weighs a lot less, and gets way better fuel economy. Plus, it'll be right up there on the same tire for lap times. The back seat brings it back to the Camaro a little bit, but you just can't see out of the damn things, and it's 8" longer than the Supra.
@@noobasdfjkl a road course represents all street performance: handling, acceleration, braking, transitioning, etc. There is no better representation of performance than lap times, and the Camaro SS 1LE solidly beats the Supra 3.0 on the track. Go look at the gap on Lightning Lap, and they never tested the updated 2019+ SS 1LE with the A10 that would post even faster times. GM says the 2019+ SS 1LE would drop 3 seconds from the lap.
Some comments from MotorTrend on the SS 1LE after it was lapped on Willow Springs, “The list of cars the Camaro went faster than should embarrass some OEMs: Porsche Cayman GT4, 2014 Audi R8 V10 Plus, Ferrari 458 Italia. I mean, come on! To put it bluntly, the Camaro is in another league, with legitimate supercars.” and went on to say, “Chevy has done the near impossible, transcended the genre, and turned a once provincial pony car into an honest to goodness world-class sports car. This $46,000 miracle punches so far above its weight that I'm in danger of saying weird things that could easily be taken out of context. Such as, if I were an engineer at BMW or even Porsche, I'd be clearing off my drawing boards.”
In an article where MotorTrend was comparing the Supra 3.0 to the Nissan Z, they took time to tell the readers to go buy the Camaro SS 1LE, not either of the cars in the test! They make the point that the Camaro drives much better than the Supra or Z, while being less expensive and faster.
As for tires, the Supra and SS 1LE use similar types of tires- Ultra High Performance Summer tires, Michelin for the Supra and Goodyears for the 1LE. When I get new tires on my 1LE, I’ll likely be getting Michelin PS4S.
If you think visibility is better in the Supra than the Camaro, I’d be shocked. Plus the Camaro has a camera mirror you can get that gets rid of all blind spots. I’m not sure if the Supra does as well, but I’ve driven sports cars for 30+ years and visibility in the Camaro is not significantly worse than other sports cars. It’s no worse than my Corvette. Maybe it’s different for me as I’m tall.
On top of all of this, the Camaro is *considerably* less money than the Supra. So, you you may get slightly better fuel economy in the Supra, but the $10K price difference pays for a ton of gas! The SS 1LE will also cost less to insure and cost less to maintain.
So what advantage does the Supra have? The Camaro performs better, drives better (according to the professionals), and costs significantly less. And this is coming from a guy who has owned 3 Supra Turbos in his life, and never a single Camaro until now.
If the Supra was a better car, I would have bought it.
I think what it really comes down to is what people like beginning with the styling, then moving into the features and mechanics, then further into the track details. In my opinion, the CTR is better than both the Camaro and Supra, simply because it's a do-it-all vehicle with four doors and does pretty damn well at everything. However, I can appreciate both the Camaro and Supra for what they are - both amazing vehicles.
Enjoy your Camaro to the fullest, brother!
its true the b58 is not exactly unique but then again so was the 2jz engine toyota put a version of that engine in pretty much everything they build with rear wheel drive layout that they could shove it into like it or not the b58 is very similar to the 2jz even in its general mass marketness and aftermarket support of the engine.
Matt and Zack should be paid millions to have their own TVshow!! These videos are awesome! I mean the good ol' one-takes are amazing and they are a great known quantity, but these videos are awesome! Keep it up guys!! Hopefully this one takes off haha
Love the format! Talking while driving at pace is what you guys do best!
Awesome video as always guys, been watching for 10 years! Love this new format, reminds me of some of the old stuff, keep up the great work :)
Very good takes! Interesting video. I've been looking at Type R's for a while they are very fun cars. I will always have a soft spot for supra's though. My best friend growing up had a supra and we had a blast in it.
For everyone arguing about “affordable”. Yes they are relatively affordable for a new enthusiast vehicle. Cars have gotten exponentially more complex over the past 10 years with new safety standards and technology. And considering the average new price of a car is $48,000 I would consider them affordable for the modern era. (Without pesky adm ofc haha)
Is that purchased new vehicles? Or based on 80 mo leases people take out as they dig themselves into debt? I wonder what median vehicle price is 🤔
@@BitcoinTo100K you plan hitting ctrl-c ctrl-v for every comment that talks about the prices?
@@papa_pt that’s skewed higher due to the lack of supply in the used car market. Anyone that takes out a loan longer than the warranty is a fool. And even then buying a new car is dumb in most cases because of how much and how quick they depreciate.
I like this format. Not necessarily change your regular reviews but, rather, augment them with these comparisons. Each of you had your preferences which are great to hear from gear heads. Then the rationalization at the end makes it real world for a daily vs a weekend car. From a guy who had an intega type r almost 20 years ago hearing a civic type r is a acceptable daily is sweet sweet nectar. Wait till full race gets their hands on this new type r, easily 450 bhp!
Lol “my butt dyno” 😅😂😂
The addition of music was a courageous choice - and I love it! Whom ever decided to A. Keep the volume low enough to still here the cars sing. And B. Have the music fit the mood of what you're talking about was hella smart!!
Keep up the good work guys.
I think criticism of the Supra engine not being unique to the platform is the wrong take for a true sports car enthusiast, especially one that likes to drive hard (track, autoX, drag racing, etc). A deeper availability of parts is one of the bigger factors in my consideration of which platform to get into and it’s the reason why K swaps are so dominant.
Exactly like the 2jz before it was a mass produce engine that was fitted to almost every rear wheel model Toyota could fit it into at the time that was a god sent for parts availability same story with this b58 which is fitted onto pretty every performance and mid spec bmw on sale currently that means millions of spare engine available.
Really enjoyed this format! I think a bit more of a one-take vibe mixed in with this style would be perfect 👌
How about the Extra Affordable comparison, Elantra N vs GR86?!
as someone who has owned an fk8 type r, a bmw m240i manual (b58) and i currently own an fl5 type r....your assessments are perfect and i couldn't agree more! great reviews!
I like this format is great!! But….lol i still think that I and my 36 years of age wouldn’t drive a Civic if i was going to buy a sports car!! Not hate to Honda but if was going to buy a hot hatch i rather buy the Golf R
The format was great, thoroughly enjoyed the entire video - especially the back and forth commentary between you two.
"unique engines" = "Uniquely high repair costs"... I like the Honda. Supra is really quick, but at 6'2", I get neck and back injuries just trying t o get in and out of it. Will be comparing my friends new MT Supra vs. my old (2015) modded S3 with similar power and less weight at the track in a couple weeks.
Guys more of this format! This was awesome.
Think it's a good format having the studio discussion about the topic added onto the end of the review, could be done with comparisons or just single reviews. One thing that stuck out at me was the lack of a transition or handoff (beyond a fade and a brief title card) between the end of the road review and the start of the studio discussion, that seemed like an opportunity to say in the car (or at least in VO) "and now back to the studio" or "we break down our thoughts in the studio", something like that would help. Could even find opportunities for comedy or other mood setting in transitions.
love this format. i love that its kind of raw footage compiling. makes it feel legit.
Really enjoyed this format, it's fun and concise. Would love to see more of this from you guys!
I'm digging the format. Yes, please do some more like this, but not exclusively. Awesome job!👍
This is a 10/10 video format. I am honestly in love with both cars.
Absolutely. Beautiful. Well written and spoken intro.
This should be done in every one take with thos "boiler items" you repeat after few seconds after ad anyway
The previous generation Type R did the Nubergring in 7:43 minutes. A 2022 Mazda MX-5 did the Nubergring in 7:45 minutes. It had an exhaust upgrade, BBR cams and a tune.
Love the format and production quality. Also appreciate the opening bones thrown at Elantra N and MKVIII GTi. 🤙🏼
Worth note... no manual supra is going for "mid 50's" right now sadly.
I REALLY like this style of format! I value the opinions you both share and disagree with. More please!
Good idea for a format. Still has a bit of the ol One Take vibes sometimes. I think with some massaging you can tighten up the format and it will be great. The bones were there in this one, but it needs some more tweaks (audio, voice over in spots, editing pace etc). But you guys will do it. I like it. Dont ditch the one takes though.
EDIT: and YES keep the in studio bit. That is new and fresh and no one else is doing it.
+1 for the civic being able to turn your head sideways and see out the window.
I LOVE this format! I hope to see more like this in the future
I like the format. Maybe lower music when you’re talking or no music but other than that I rather enjoyed it. Thanks for taking a gamble on the new format. 🎉
I love the format it’s much more engaging than the previous - mostly in car format. For special-single car reviews this would fit nicely to give us a little history lesson behind the development of some cars. I don’t think many other journalists do that currently.
I like this format! Your One Take/Two Take vids are great, but this is a refreshing change!
I like this format but I also like the banter and instant impressions and feedback you give each other when you're both in the car and that's kind of what makes this channel this channel. I say keep the old format but sprinkle in some of these comparisons every now and then.
You had me right up to “accentuates the torque curve in a way that can’t be measured”. You’re driving a literal machine. Any power gains or acceleration gains, can absolutely be measured. Making statements to the contrary, makes me immediately tune out. It’s like what magazines have done for decades, when describing speakers. A bunch of superlatives that mean nothing but convince those that know nothing.