It was 1976. We were like 18. We Got the new Zep Live album. 'Song Remains'.1973 concert. Back then there was no live stuff from them, or videos, or You Tube. I put on 'Stairway' and the solo. And I said. I knew Jimmy was even better than I ever imagined. I just knew it. The movie finally came out in like 1979 and I watched Jimmy do that solo. The way he held that guitar. Ripping out, I couldn't figure out what it was. Like jazz or horn riffs with blues. So confident and killer the way he played that in the movie. For all the world to see. The fuckin thing was captured live. Un fuckin real. And this proved it. We got o see the 1977 tour at MSG in NY. The record store charged us $50 for $9.99 ticket. That was a fuckin' fortune back then for 18 yr old kids right out of high school spending most of our money on weed and records and shit. We spent every cent we could get for those tickets and had to go to the show straight. No party stuff. First time ever with nothing to get high on for a concert. WTF We got good seats because all the shows for the week got sold out in 15 minuites and we were screwed. They added a Saturday show and we got them. Good seats. I went right up front dead in front of Jimmy and couldn't beleive my eyes and ears. The fuckers played from 9pm to 12 thirty. 3 1/2 hours non stop. The fuckin encore was 45 miniutes. I had to go to the bathroom so bad but I didn't want to leave my seat. But I did for 'No Quarter' I had no choice. Fast forward to the next 4 decades, We've been telling young guitar player kids to hang up this Eddie Van Halen school of flash guitar playing and listen to Jimmy Page, and pull up The 'Staiway' song from the movie. and look at Jimmy. Learn from this guy. Nobody before or since ever played like Jimmy, especially live. I play a little guitar but no ones ever gonna play like Jimmy. Listen to Jimmy Page and the people he learned from. It's all about the blues kids. Blues on steroids. frankny66yroldwhitekid rockfan PS Every official and bootleg version of Jimmy playing live 'Stairway' kicks fuckin' ass. They're all different but so fuckin' good.
Jesus Christ I have listened to Jimi Hendrix and it’s great but for me page have something special, how he plays that les Paul those beautiful guitar solos they have something special
Jeni ChP He is very humble and hilarious to party with. Read Hammer of the Gods. This version wasn't as bad as I originally thought. The 77 one was the worst for me.
Jeni ChP Understand this, back in the 70's the record companies weren't as stingent. Led Zeppelin WAS SO POPULAR that Atlantic Records basically said, "You keep all the money from the lives shows and we'll also give you royalties from the profits." So Page during the live shows was sloppy as hell and is known for it. Back then it was cool flailing your fingers around.
I finally see what Jimmy's doing. Instead of repeating the same style of solo for 'Stairway', year after year, show after show, hes' playing through different parts of the rhythm groove each time for the sake of risk and adventure, and cool. And because he can, with his talent and prowess on the guitar. And to challenge himself and his fans for new and uncharted territory. It's not about better or worse, Or faster or slower. Why do the same solo over and over again?
4:53 The smile in robert's face when the crowd asks "remember laughter?" is so honest. He realises that even with all those years without playing live (and even more years without playin on UK), people are still addicted and care a lot about them, rembering even the "jokes" through the songs.
Funny how Jimmy is so badass while playing but when he puts the guitar down he is very humble and bit timid. As you can see at the end of this song. And in many interviews he had the habit of touching his nose and a little stutter. Seemed more confident as he got much older.
Agreed! Many criticize his improvisation due to him being 'sloppy' at times. NOBODY is clean n clear when improvising. 'Mistakes' will always be there.
Lot of ppl have said that Jimmy declined during 76/77, but despite all that this is honestly one of his best stairway solos imo, the amount of heart and feeling put into it is amazing!
He was not really with it in 76/77 but Knebworth is really good. Knebworth is really interesting. They're not the jam band that they were in the early 70s. They play the songs more straight up. I like both.
I'm 70 southern California kid, I am so thankful to have lived in the best time in human history for music, these guys made the soundtrack for my life as well as the whole musical magic that happened while I was beginning and throughout my life, It will never happen again 🎉🎉
This has always been at it's best a live song and Jimmy's tune - just for the solo. It's totally him in the moment feeling and laying it all out. The emotions that pour out of him bring a tear to your eye!
I never truly loved this solo because I always thought the greatest part of the solos was where he builds it up and up and up and then slows it down but I've realized the entire thing is the greatest part
i know i'm in the minority on this one, but this is my absolute favorite stairway solo, and ive heard them all, just something about this one made me fall in love with it.
Nuke R Puff I think it might be your favorite because of all the emotions you can feel as Jimmy layes it out! That's what I like about Jimmy! He goes more for feel than technique.
he llorado y amado con esta cancion. es mi cancion favorita y led zeppelin mi banda preferida. tuve la suerte de verlos en vivo en viña del mar y luego a robert plant como solista.ahora me puedo morir tranquilo.
Page plays with such emotion. He is physically pulling the solo it out of himself at this stage of his Zep career, especially by about 8:39. Its especially poignant, though they didn't know at the time, that these Knebworth dates were to be their last UK appearances.
Music is for everyone! My brother was a lost soul and he would play Led Zeppelin in his room all the time. He seemed to just get lost in the music. Thank you for whatever healing you gave him; it was priceless.
Epic comeback for the greatest band in the history of music!!!!! Page, Plant, Jones, and Bonham were all meant to play together. I thank the big guy upstairs for bringing these guys together. Destiny. Every time I watch them play together they leave me speechless. The August 4, 1979 concert was an incredible performance. The August 11, 1979 concert no so much. But the second show was hindered by Jimmy's parents splitting us, his drug use, and bad press in the British papers that ripped and incredible August 4, 1979 show. The press was obviously wrong.
I mean, even all things considered in 79', I am flabbergasted by the quality of this performance. It was as if, for one last time, all four laid it out here, all four, each, carried each other, still cared for each other, still could kick ass and blow not only the doors of the place, but the minds of the patrons. Will will not see the likes of this band again. Long live, even on not their best day, the one, the only, THE ALMIGHTY ..... our LED ZEPPELIN.
LED ZEPPELIN?? TUVO EL MEJOR VOCALISTA DL ROCK EXCELENT GUITARRISTA BAJO FULL Y EL MEJOR LEJOS BATA D TODAS LAS EPOCAS Q MÁS.GLORIA A TODOS LAS BANDAS ROCKERAS D TODOS LADOS Y LAS NUESTRAS LAS ARGENTINAS ¡¡¡¡¡
One of the best concerts I ever saw. Went there two years in a row Genesis Zepplin Jefferson starship just to name a few still have the T-shirts still have the books still have two posters
Some people complain (including RP) about the Knebworth shows. But Most of the clips I've seen have been amazing. 10yrs gone was a little weak as was TSRTS. But I think the Aug 4 show holds up as one of their best.
I've always felt Plant is reacting to the kerfuffles of the August 11th show where the PA, strings and Jimmy's inability to settle down into the gig made it one of those shows that fight you all the way.
I love the Knebworth shows, if they didn't manage a good version of a song on one night they did on the other, and when they were good at Knebworth, my God they were good
Stairway to Heaven é toda perfeita, mas o solo de guitarra de Jimmy Page e o trecho final cantado por Robert Plant na minha opinião é a mais suprema demonstração de poder do Rock 'n Roll. Viva Led Zeppelin!!!!
For most of the hearers of this rendition of "stairway" this would have been the third or fourth time they'd heard it including the film and soundtrack and previous concerts so it would have been just brilliant. We can compare different versions of the song with the internet but back then the concert goer had memories and the film/soundtrack versions to compare. Wish I'd been there.
7:39 omg best page moment I don't know why it's so funny but so cool he feels the music. I don't care if people say o it's sloppy it's still sick and badass
per me la versione di Stairway to Heaven ( canzone comunque coppiata da un pezzo degli Spirit...).....rimane comunque una straordinaria canzone che rimarrà nella leggenda!!!..... aimé......
Thanks for putting together and sharing. Takes me back to high school and learning how to play the guitar. My teacher at the school was a huge fan. Was also a huge Grateful Dead fan and he taught us all to play rock and wouldn't pass us unless we were GOOD! Although, some were excellent and now play currently in their own bands and are very successful. This just brings me home again. Thank you again!!! 😎😎🎶🎶🎶
I wish they'd remaster this version, if they did I'm pretty sure this would be my favourite version of the solo. It's so melancholic, no matter how terrible Jimmy's performance was (those damn drugs)
I love this version is amazing, but at the end Robert said so fast the "to be a rock and not to roll" . He never sings the classic large end "and not to roooooooll"
It was 1976. We were like 18. We Got the new Zep Live album. 'Song Remains'.1973 concert. Back then there was no live stuff from them, or videos, or You Tube. I put on 'Stairway' and the solo. And I said. I knew Jimmy was even better than I ever imagined. I just knew it. The movie finally came out in like 1979 and I watched Jimmy do that solo. The way he held that guitar. Ripping out, I couldn't figure out what it was. Like jazz or horn riffs with blues. So confident and killer the way he played that in the movie. For all the world to see. The fuckin thing was captured live. Un fuckin real. And this proved it. We got o see the 1977 tour at MSG in NY. The record store charged us $50 for $9.99 ticket. That was a fuckin' fortune back then for 18 yr old kids right out of high school spending most of our money on weed and records and shit. We spent every cent we could get for those tickets and had to go to the show straight. No party stuff. First time ever with nothing to get high on for a concert. WTF We got good seats because all the shows for the week got sold out in 15 minuites and we were screwed. They added a Saturday show and we got them. Good seats. I went right up front dead in front of Jimmy and couldn't beleive my eyes and ears. The fuckers played from 9pm to 12 thirty. 3 1/2 hours non stop. The fuckin encore was 45 miniutes. I had to go to the bathroom so bad but I didn't want to leave my seat. But I did for 'No Quarter' I had no choice. Fast forward to the next 4 decades, We've been telling young guitar player kids to hang up this Eddie Van Halen school of flash guitar playing and listen to Jimmy Page, and pull up The 'Staiway' song from the movie. and look at Jimmy. Learn from this guy. Nobody before or since ever played like Jimmy, especially live. I play a little guitar but no ones ever gonna play like Jimmy. Listen to Jimmy Page and the people he learned from. It's all about the blues kids. Blues on steroids. frankny66yroldwhitekid rockfan PS Every official and bootleg version of Jimmy playing live 'Stairway' kicks fuckin' ass. They're all different but so fuckin' good.
I spent most of my money on "weed and records" when I was a teenager too!! 😂
Great story, very lucky to see him live. Nobody like him
Hands down...Jimmy Page was the greatest guitarist of ALL TIME! I was around for 30 greats, but none could ever touch his brilliance.
He was, before Tony Iommi
as much as I love Pink Floyd , especially Dark Side of the Moon, I think this is the greatest song ever written
The world hadn't seen and will never see a better man holding a guitar than Jimmy. A god among humans.
Siddhant Khakse Look up James Marshall Hendrix. I'm sure your opinion is gonna change. ;)
Jesus Christ I have listened to Jimi Hendrix and it’s great but for me page have something special, how he plays that les Paul those beautiful guitar solos they have something special
IMO Jimi Hendrix is the best rock guitarist, but Page just has that feel/vibe
True story......
Agreed. As a “rock guitarist” his body of work (songs, solos, phrasing) is unparalleled.
Robert Plant crying, priceless!!! Led Zeppelin is just the best band i ever heard in my life
+Jeni ChP Yeah, he was crying b/c he couldn't believe he had such loyal fans.
+Ryan Wittert Well, and it´s because Robert is so humble too!!!!!
Jeni ChP He is very humble and hilarious to party with. Read Hammer of the Gods. This version wasn't as bad as I originally thought. The 77 one was the worst for me.
+Ryan Wittert Thanks, I will try to follow your advice, anyway i know a little about the extremely unique and special personality that Robert has.
Jeni ChP Understand this, back in the 70's the record companies weren't as stingent. Led Zeppelin WAS SO POPULAR that Atlantic Records basically said, "You keep all the money from the lives shows and we'll also give you royalties from the profits." So Page during the live shows was sloppy as hell and is known for it. Back then it was cool flailing your fingers around.
I finally see what Jimmy's doing. Instead of repeating the same style of solo for 'Stairway', year after year, show after show, hes' playing through different parts of the rhythm groove each time for the sake of risk and adventure, and cool. And because he can, with his talent and prowess on the guitar. And to challenge himself and his fans for new and uncharted territory. It's not about better or worse, Or faster or slower. Why do the same solo over and over again?
Some are good some are tasteless
i think that stairway is different for each but heaven is same for us♡ that's all
Bah, je dirais que reprendre note par note n'est pas désagréable, j'aime bien pink Floyd
Джимми в своих же песнях импровизирует, это великолепно❤
IT,S JUST IS. PEACE AND LOVE TO YOU ALL MY FRIEND'S. ✌️😎🏴
4:53 The smile in robert's face when the crowd asks "remember laughter?" is so honest. He realises that even with all those years without playing live (and even more years without playin on UK), people are still addicted and care a lot about them, rembering even the "jokes" through the songs.
Jimmy so fast in the beginning Robert cant get away with it haha
Funny how Jimmy is so badass while playing but when he puts the guitar down he is very humble and bit timid. As you can see at the end of this song. And in many interviews he had the habit of touching his nose and a little stutter. Seemed more confident as he got much older.
jimmy: even when he's bad, he's good
Agreed! Many criticize his improvisation due to him being 'sloppy' at times. NOBODY is clean n clear when improvising. 'Mistakes' will always be there.
@@john564holloway amen
@@KendraAndTheLaw 😊
EN EL INICIO DE LA CANCION LA GUITARRA SUENA HERMOSO . BY: LORD PAIGE
@@john564holloway Guthrie Govan lol
Lot of ppl have said that Jimmy declined during 76/77, but despite all that this is honestly one of his best stairway solos imo, the amount of heart and feeling put into it is amazing!
How so declined ??
He was not really with it in 76/77 but Knebworth is really good. Knebworth is really interesting. They're not the jam band that they were in the early 70s. They play the songs more straight up. I like both.
I'm 70 southern California kid, I am so thankful to have lived in the best time in human history for music, these guys made the soundtrack for my life as well as the whole musical magic that happened while I was beginning and throughout my life, It will never happen again 🎉🎉
@@patwilson2546 Smack does that, it's the nature of the beast. It's always best to know the animal before you mount it!
@@lisamoroney3036he was blitzed lol
7:25-7:35 is such a good part of the solo, the whole solo is great but that lick/section in particular is amazing
7:45 is that heroine struggle face
+Derek Jackson yep, absolutely
agreed
What can i say Jimmy is simple the best ♥
:)
Superb solo from Jimmy - one of many from that great night
This has always been at it's best a live song and Jimmy's tune - just for the solo. It's totally him in the moment feeling and laying it all out. The emotions that pour out of him bring a tear to your eye!
I never truly loved this solo because I always thought the greatest part of the solos was where he builds it up and up and up and then slows it down but I've realized the entire thing is the greatest part
Best song in the world “in my opinion”
Your opinion is facts “in my opinion “
i know i'm in the minority on this one, but this is my absolute favorite stairway solo, and ive heard them all, just something about this one made me fall in love with it.
This might be my favourite, it's so different from any others and it's so much more bluesy than any other
Definitely my favorite as well.
Nuke R Puff I think it might be your favorite because of all the emotions you can feel as Jimmy layes it out! That's what I like about Jimmy! He goes more for feel than technique.
Eh stuff from 73 and 75 is much better and he's alive and on planet earth
My favorite too.
i don't know why, but i find this solo very emotional, i really hope that jimmy would remaster this and put it on a DVD
Robert John Paul Page the name had to end with Page didn't it 😎
Robert John Paul Page I know a lot of the Knebworth material is on DVD. Don't know if this is included. Try Amazon.
he llorado y amado con esta cancion. es mi cancion favorita y led zeppelin mi banda preferida.
tuve la suerte de verlos en vivo en viña del mar y luego a robert plant como solista.ahora me puedo morir tranquilo.
Lo que viste fue Page & Plant no Led Zeppelin.
La mejor banda de la historia, felicidades amigo . Aunque no creo que los hayas visto juntos jaja se separaron desde 1980 ...
what a great solo!!
mmmmmm... no
JulianJules are you sad?
JIMMY PAGE … WHAT A MAGICIAN ❤️❤️❤️
6:32 Chills down my spine...
Page plays with such emotion. He is physically pulling the solo it out of himself at this stage of his Zep career, especially by about 8:39. Its especially poignant, though they didn't know at the time, that these Knebworth dates were to be their last UK appearances.
That's not true, they played in the UK at the 02 in London at their last reunion in 2007.
@@bendykop8235 Not with John Bonham.
@@Ed9870verdade 😀, não dê atenção pra esse burro
As much as we can comment on Jimmy's drug use, he still pulls a rabbit out of his hat with this version.
Chris Horton
Good comment, man. Page had a lot of demons, beyond just the "giveaway " of sweating through his shirt. He's so great.
@@James-nw1oj went 1st night best band ever seen period, google youtube earls court 75 last show.
He seemed more "there" this time than others. He even grinned while playing at 8:57 where as other times he'd put in too much effort to smile.
IKR!!
what people dont understand is Page played almost clean he earned every note , his version of achillies last stand wow
Sad and marvelous guitar solo 😢 a indescriptible mix ... Im shocked
One of the few versions of this song where JPJ seriously stands out. I love it
This should be remastered
Music is for everyone! My brother was a lost soul and he would play Led Zeppelin in his room all the time. He seemed to just get lost in the music. Thank you for whatever healing you gave him; it was priceless.
My wedding song
JIMMY PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GET THE REMASTERED BOX SET FOR THIS TOGETHER...... WE'VE BEEN WAITING...
Epic comeback for the greatest band in the history of music!!!!! Page, Plant, Jones, and Bonham were all meant to play together. I thank the big guy upstairs for bringing these guys together. Destiny. Every time I watch them play together they leave me speechless. The August 4, 1979 concert was an incredible performance. The August 11, 1979 concert no so much. But the second show was hindered by Jimmy's parents splitting us, his drug use, and bad press in the British papers that ripped and incredible August 4, 1979 show. The press was obviously wrong.
QUE HERMOSURA ❤ GRACIAS POR HABER HECHO ESTA MARAVILLA
At 4:40 and the forest will echo with laughter....DO YOU REMEMBER A TIME WHEN EVERYBODY USED TO LAUGH......................
The layered emotions and the changes throughout the solo make this a great display of the ever changing guise of Pagey and his improvisation
I mean, even all things considered in 79', I am flabbergasted by the quality of this performance. It was as if, for one last time, all four laid it out here, all four, each, carried each other, still cared for each other, still could kick ass and blow not only the doors of the place, but the minds of the patrons. Will will not see the likes of this band again. Long live, even on not their best day, the one, the only, THE ALMIGHTY ..... our LED ZEPPELIN.
What i really love about Led Zeppelin is they took every performance seriously!!!
xD
not oakland 1977
LED ZEPPELIN?? TUVO EL MEJOR VOCALISTA DL ROCK EXCELENT GUITARRISTA BAJO FULL Y EL MEJOR LEJOS BATA D TODAS LAS EPOCAS Q MÁS.GLORIA A TODOS LAS BANDAS ROCKERAS D TODOS LADOS Y LAS NUESTRAS LAS ARGENTINAS ¡¡¡¡¡
I love stairway live from 1973... 1975..... 1977 I can leave it.... but this one is probably the best I have heard after 1975.
We love this song!
MarianumLIVEGroenlo I saw your cover it was great
+CaliburnMC
Dear CaliburnMC, thank you so much for listening.
We who?
MarianumLIVEGroenlo we do love this song ☹💙💙💙
"When all are one and one is all."
One of the best concerts I ever saw. Went there two years in a row Genesis Zepplin Jefferson starship just to name a few still have the T-shirts still have the books still have two posters
I listen to Stairway Sessions everyday and just about every bootleg out there in circulation
Jimmy Page: king of rifs, king of solos.
King of playing absolutely nothing during live performances.
@@franklinclinton4690 can you play anything? What's your legacy?
@@srvenenoforte Yeah, actually i can, Stairway to Heaven is one of these songs i can play.
@@franklinclinton4690 but can you play the solo differently and improvised every time though?
INDESCRIPTIBLE PARA MI SEMEJANTE MARAVILLA.
When they played this i was only one month old. 41 years later i still hear Ledz. They bring me the music.
i love this version
Phenomenal Jimmy! 👌❤️🦄🌹
Very melancholic solo, especially 8:12-
Poor Jimmy....while playing great...the Heroin was taking its toll on his appearance.
Interesting take on this solo!
Some people complain (including RP) about the Knebworth shows. But Most of the clips I've seen have been amazing. 10yrs gone was a little weak as was TSRTS. But I think the Aug 4 show holds up as one of their best.
10 years gone is Amazing
+Michael Boring You sir are high, Ten Years Gone was GREAT
I've always felt Plant is reacting to the kerfuffles of the August 11th show where the PA, strings and Jimmy's inability to settle down into the gig made it one of those shows that fight you all the way.
I love the Knebworth shows, if they didn't manage a good version of a song on one night they did on the other, and when they were good at Knebworth, my God they were good
The aug. 11th show was not good.
Long song I love it
Rough beginning but the end was fantastic!
This song makes me want to buy a double neck guitar Jimmy Page is simply the best
Nobody better!! I just love them!
Stairway to Heaven é toda perfeita, mas o solo de guitarra de Jimmy Page e o trecho final cantado por Robert Plant na minha opinião é a mais suprema demonstração de poder do Rock 'n Roll. Viva Led Zeppelin!!!!
Greatest Song EVER!!
All right Jimmy! I know the discomfort he is in, first hand here, but MAN!...despite all that, he manages a great lead guitar!
Was there, both times.
Legendary.
For most of the hearers of this rendition of "stairway" this would have been the third or fourth time they'd heard it including the film and soundtrack and previous concerts so it would have been just brilliant. We can compare different versions of the song with the internet but back then the concert goer had memories and the film/soundtrack versions to compare. Wish I'd been there.
7:39 omg best page moment I don't know why it's so funny but so cool he feels the music. I don't care if people say o it's sloppy it's still sick and badass
bro he’s feeling the heroin
Show Forever
the legend song of all times
Best band of all time brilliant
So much better solo than the one from the other Knebworth show on 8/11/1979.
11 августа они вообще выступили слабее чем 4
I love the queue in by the camera to jimmy page for the solo, gave me chills
Tsrts the best performance of Zeppelin and that's it. 😍
great song ❤❤❤
Eterno hino do Rock.
per me la versione di Stairway to Heaven ( canzone comunque coppiata da un pezzo degli Spirit...).....rimane comunque una straordinaria canzone che rimarrà nella leggenda!!!..... aimé......
Thanks for putting together and sharing. Takes me back to high school and learning how to play the guitar. My teacher at the school was a huge fan. Was also a huge Grateful Dead fan and he taught us all to play rock and wouldn't pass us unless we were GOOD! Although, some were excellent and now play currently in their own bands and are very successful. This just brings me home again. Thank you again!!! 😎😎🎶🎶🎶
Bonzo's, best moment at 8:55
I wish they'd remaster this version, if they did I'm pretty sure this would be my favourite version of the solo. It's so melancholic, no matter how terrible Jimmy's performance was (those damn drugs)
Melancholic is exactly how I’d describe Jimmy’s solo here
Really cool video to watch! Great footage to have a bit before and after the song. Really cool thanks man. Wish i could have been around to see them
Soul and mind cure
essa banda é impossivel de alcançar pqp
I prefer this version over the one in The Song Remains the Same.
This version is really sad idk why
Same and to me its because you can see the things that the years of drug use and such did to them also this was close to their eventual breakup
Que preciso comentario bro
Exactly 45 years ago 🥲
You’re off by a few months, this was August 4th, 1979, not April 8, 1979
@@randybutternubs1209 Aish, American date 🙃
awesome
love it
Jones keyboards are key to this song and many zep songs but zep videos leave him mostly out of the video
read the verse in the Bible where it says four men came down from the mountain playing music erratically and singing praises to God
Man, Page is possessed
John Finnigan nope, just stoned out of his mind
2018 .....timeless
42 Years Ago Today!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😎
Incrível ❤️
Best ever!
At 830 was the best sound of the solo..jimmy page#1
9:22 ROBERT 🎙️💥💫🔥💪
JIMMY IS THE MAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
8:46 amazing!
8:14 🙂↕️
right before I try to astral project ill listen to this song, of course, i always fail to actually project and just end up falling asleep
One song best to the Led Zeppelin
8:57 ....9:22 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉💥💥💥💎💥💥💎☄️☄️☄️
I love this version is amazing, but at the end Robert said so fast the "to be a rock and not to roll" . He never sings the classic large end "and not to roooooooll"
I like jimmys tone in this. Almost kinda fuzzy sounding