Right then, so the reason I was longer than usual to get a vid up this month became a bit of a juggling act. So although its taken some extra time, you can rest assured that I already have one other full vid ready to go this month, and I hope to get a couple of others out as well. PLUS next week, there may even be a bit of livestream action. Enjoyed the vid? Like - Comment. Helps me out, appreciate as always your continued support for me and the channel 👍
Never even seen a warhamer figure in real life, but I could just about have a lengthy discussion on the lore at this point. Truely you are the Loremaster.
That’s the great thing ? Some paint, collect, Read, table top RPG, lore & story listen!! But we’re all similarly fascinated & we have that in common!!!
I always had it in my head The Emperor’s uncle was the first murderer. One of the visions shown to Ra was the emperor as a child contemplating the skull of his father, seeing that it was his uncle that murdered him and strolling over and stopping his uncles heart with a thought.
@whenpigsfly8178 that woild only be true if the fathers death wasn't justified. It wasn't just murder that fulfilled the role but it was taking a life for a reason other than survival. It's possible the emperors father attacked his uncle due to a misunderstanding and his uncle killed in self defense. The emperor was aware of the situation and knew his uncle was in the right to do what he did but stopped his heart anyway, it would fulfill the conditions
I don't play 40k, never have and probably never will. But I love the lore surrounding it and your work on it is absolutely the best. Thanks for all the work you put into it.
Plenty of people who don't play the game, but only do the lore (such as the books), plenty of people who only enjoy the painting and not the playing. That's the good thing of this hobby, there is enough room for multiple different kinds of fans. I'm sure there will be plenty of fans who only follow the upcoming TV show.
@avinashtyagi2 couldn't be more tru. As I'm in my late 40s , I started painting figures late 80s early 90s , then played casually [it gets pricey here in the US for warhammer stuff] then as I got older, literally recently , did I start learning all the lore and falling in love with 40k all over again. As I build alot of 1:10 rc stuff (realism over performance lol) I'm thinking of painting again. People used to pay me to paint their armies locally in my youth. I'm feeling as I've been away too long.
One of my favorite aspects of the lore is the speculation. The ambiguity of some of the storyline and characters let's our minds do a lot of world building.
I like the idea of the Emperor being an Old One weapon from the past. I remember in an audiobook, Belasarius is being interrogated by a C’tan and is catching up on current events. The C’tan calls the Chaos gods psychic disturbances and the emperor a weapon. Maybe it’s nothing or I’m misinterpreting, but I like the idea the C’tan recognize him as trouble.
The Emperor is most probably a weapon against AI. No matter who forged this weapon, it's clear that, at some point, his powers and reach could have handed him a relic STC, an ancient AI, a gravity weapon or something equally game changing. The fact that he never used such things means that he suppressed such findings, under the realizaton that the greatest threat to humanity weren't the deamons or the xenos but our own tech. During the dark/golden age of technology there were robots fighting the wars, STC's constructing the hardware and AI's making the decisions. Down this path, humanity would have been uploaded, absorbed by the machines and the easy/eternal life they promised. Keeping humanity alive meant keeping the existential, survivalistic insticts sharp. And this meant perpetual war both against others and itself.
@@lnwolf7563 You got me. Herbert is my favorite sci fi author and it obviously shows. Here's another possible plot twist for you. Why are the tyranids invading the Milky Way? Are they expanding or running from something? If so, what are the tyranids running from? (wink wink).
@@archimedesnation Indeed the AI is still out there and it has grown exponentially stronger in the years since it was driven from the human worlds. The god Emperor introduced this constant state of war so that humanity would have a fighting chance when the AI does make it back. Almost sounds like we have read this story before doesn't it.
W40k may be even stranger than anything in Dune. The C'tan told Cawl. ""The third is a weapon.There is war. The… rift? A rift has opened. The purity of reality is polluted. The war continues. Our war. You fight it.". What Cawl wants from the C'tan is the secret for the pylons that sealed the warp over Cadia and elsewhere. The pylons were originally created by the necrons to fight the Old Ones, who first used the warp, right? So the Necrontyr and the C'tan actually want the same thing with humans (contain the warp), right? But humans are supposed to be children of the Old Ones, the C'tan enemies. The Emperor is human and the greatest psyker ever, so presumably he's a weapon of the Old Ones against the likes of C'tan and Necrontyr. A weapon forged to ensure that humans wouldn't end up enslaved in a machine like the necrontyr. But this weapon, like the Aeldari gods, feeds on the warp. A weapon forged to fight the machines but ended up stirring the warp and releasing demons. So it's either the machines or the warp and humanity (unknowingly) sided with the warp.
@@cmdraftbrn this is how invested i became because of Luetin, I ordered some figures to paint. And cause im usually busy during the week and im off work by the time my local shops close, I have this whole thing planned for this weekend, gnna suck just looking at the figures and all the stuff i bought and know I cant really touch it till saturday, or else I wont sleep enough lol
Tinfoil theory : The Emperor is actually one of the most powerful (and first) AIs that waged war against humanity, that became disillusioned with the war and it decided to create a biological body to be able to harness the power of the warp via Psychic powers. It realised it had to gain the ability to absorb souls to empower it's own abilities so that it could proceed with it's own long game
That could lend towards why seeing the His true form is off putting to people because the AI reflects some human traits but they know it really isn't human also the dark age AI being so intelligent could explain why his psyker abilities are so beyond eveything else
That theory about big E being invented by Malcador and the perpetuals and their subsequent fear in his presence got me thinking. Speculating perhaps the 2 lost primarchs and their gene seed progeny could not get over that aura of foreboding. Like seeing the beast behind the mask (1st Murder?). But rather than being prone to rebel to the Chaos gods, the two lost sons of the Emperor could see through the veil and in the back of his mind the Emperor was more fearful of the rest of his sons finding out this deeper truth. This potentially would have been more devastating to big E's presumed plans than turning to Chaos... so they were quietly removed and their progeny, if any, were "Thunder Warrior'ed"
The reason for your numbers building over time is that some of us save your presentations for when we can actually watch them with our full attention. Ive just finished work and came home to an empty house. Glass of whiskey (or two) and The Loremaster of Mankind, Leutin09. Such glorious paths you lead us on! A comment for the mighty Rhythms of All Gore! A like for the blessings of the Machine! *heavy gasmask noises intensifies*
The emperor was a Tzeenchian plant to create the ultimate engine of human intrigue, violence, excess, and decay. He even left a little watermark, a two headed bird.
For the first theory, I thought he might be the first person murdered and thus the first human perpetual. He came back with immeasurable power as the first human to go to and come back from the warp during a pivotal moment.
Bro you are carrying warhammer for sooo many people out there. Your work is legendary. You brought me in years ago and I thank you for that. Luetin09 is a big part of warhammer for me. May the emperor protect you from the corruption of the chaos gods.
I like the idea of the Emperor "sitting out" the age of Strife to have a more malleable humanity to rule, however there is also to consider the fact that the Emperor, while being portrayed as a perfect paragon of power, has actually shown Himself to be quite fallible. Many times He made mistakes and I believe it is simply very possibile that he wasn't able to help during the Age of Strife, maybe he even tried for what we know, because is Him who wrote the story of the Imperium and he might have just chosen to omit some "minor" details about his very human fallibility.
That throwaway line about writing a script at 4am is in my opinion all the proof that I need to see that you enjoy making these videos as much as we enjoy listening to them. A trillion blessings upon you and the people you hold dear. Cheesy I know, but ultimately an honest wish. Thank you again for your content
I think an opportunity and grimly empathetic point about faith/Warp energy and The Emperor comes from the Siege of Terra: where we're seeing his apotheosis as a god of desperation. Saturnine especially detailed how I think mankind started creating a deity that's positive in the Imperium's way: "He defends us as we defend him". He's being dehydrated (metaphysically), alone, hunted and chased and old. Desperately holding on. And his followers are the same. Chaos is laughing. And the mix of tenacity, fighting out of this new honesty where Loyalists are all in the same boat no matter what they are, Mongols or Angels or Revenants are literally just facing the horde of blood demons has an energy to it. Sigismund's cold, silent no-nonsense faith is empowering The Emperor. Every soldier holding his banner grows his cult, and all of Keeler's fanatics. He's not a god of licentious and grandiose power like Slannesh, coming into the world from a mighty power ecstatic and giving their self control away, but a mix of the repetition of people facing the end but pulling attempts at empathy, 'fuck you' attacks and last stands. He's a god of pain and suffering because from the 'ascension' that's all he will feel. He is fed by the now active worship. I see it like this: the Imperium is feeding a concept of their god among the ashes, that even if it's all gone then He will still be there. Even struggling, we will continue. So he *will* be that, ironically whether he wants to or not. ADB deliberately broke the idea of an empathetic Emperor or even a consistent one due to his glamour, but he suffers a karmic reversal of his tyranny. He will be the god of resistance, grim understanding, people from different places bringing back tribal loyalties and good mysticism (Warhawk shows this best with Terrans/Scars) whether he wants it or not. The Emperor took away dissent by commanding humanity, in turn the Imperium forces the biggest atheist to be standard, godhead and source of spiritual solace no matter what he thinks. The Emperor has as much say in his godhood as an Imperial Army conscript did in the Great Crusade.
I recently started Dark Imperium, and hearing about Roboute struggling with what he thought the Emperor was. Very glad this video came out, as it helps spur my own ideas of what the Emperor of mankind might truly be. I really enjoy listening to your videos, and its what originally got me into the 40k universe.
Tinfoilhat Theory: Grey Knights were created by Malcador to destroy the Emperor of Mankind after the ascension. After all he did say: "The greatest enemy of mankind".
That's like the Royal Rumble strategy. Or the strategy for winning the Survivor TV show. Team up with the strongest guy to take out every other threat, then take him out when he's worn out and doesn't expect it. Pretend to be the sidekick, then betray him at the last second.
I love how every perpetual the Emperor talked to about his grand plan for the galaxy came away from that conversation thinking, "he's crazy and he needs to be stopped".
I mean, I can kinda understand their ideology of it. But I disagree with them. Dictators rise and fall, usually the fall is because they’re too fast with their rise due to their short lifespan. But an immortal being actually could bring a new world order that doesn’t actually suck. The others saw just another dictator, and they’re not wrong in that sense. But I think they’re wrong in thinking that he needed to be stopped.
@@nikik5567 I disagree. The failure of dictatorships is not the mortality of the dictator, but the arrogance of a single person to believe that they alone have all the answers.
@@calebh373 ah but u see that arrogance is due to their own mortality. A dictator that had endless time would likely have advisors to delegate to, and who in turn provide another opinion. When one is on a finite schedule they don’t have time for that because they want to see their goals met before they die. But when death is abstract it becomes a lot easier to actually listen to ur underlings and thus get all of the perspectives and information u need to rule effectively while still achieving ur goals. Let’s take evil mustache man for example. I’m his early reign Germany had very little complaint about his actions, outside of the obvious groups that would…object. But later he stopped listening to his advisors cuz he cared more about seeing his own personal plans through before he died. Even before germanys defeat became apparent he started doing this. He became so obsessed with seeing his personal vision through before death that he ignored what his generals and advisors were telling him was the best course of action for Germany to actually win the war. Had he not been so worried about “oh I gotta do this before I die” then he could have slowed down, taken in the situation, and acted accordingly to win. Thank the gods he didn’t, but my point still stands. His mortality led him to wanting to achieve his own goals too early. This is the same with every dictator. They ignore their advisors about what’s best course in order to achieve personal goals. This inevitably leads to their own downfall. The Emperor wouldn’t have had such issues. Those other perpetuals could’ve influenced him enough to ensure that, yes he’d still rule absolutely, but his empire wouldn’t be a shit place for its subjects.
@@nikik5567 It doesn't matter how immortal someone is. People aren't perfect and make mistakes, which is why you shouldn't put absolute power in the hands of a single person.
I used to work an overnight job and let me tell you that your videos made it so much easier to work, Crazy how a 1-2 hour video makes time fly, Keep up the awesome job 👏
I kinda dig the idea of Emperor being an artificial human, a horror of bioengineering, creation that is supposed to be the apex of humanity yet lacks its own humanity. Hell, with addition of Voshtarr, we could assume that, perhaps, Malcador saw Voshtarr corrupt STC and saw this artificial human as a better option. At this point, I am almost convinced that this will lead to horrible consequences where Emperor, once reborn, will aim to "save humanity" by "uniting them all in himself" or something.
Wait a second. Mythical first murderer? Unbelievable power, hubris, and immortality? The Emperor is Caine from Vampire the Masquerade! It all makes sense now! (Kidding, kidding, but seriously so happy to see the next part in this series.)
What lore comes from the Votann will be critical to understanding the Emperor because they are the most direct link with the ancient past. Everything else, as you have said, is bathed in myth, rumor, and distortion. The Votann are *directly* of the dark age and ANY mention of anything related to the happenings on Terra would be groundbreaking, coming from a trusted archive that is believed to be that old, if not older.
An idea from a friend: At the end of the Heresy, it was Sanguinius who destroyed Horus. The ordeal drove him insane, instigating the Black Rage. In truth, it was The Emperor's mercy for his beloved winged son that was his own undoing. Killing Sanguinius out of mercy and being slain in the process. It still hits the main beats of why the Emperor was beaten - he valued his Primarchs and wanted to avoid their deaths. This way is far more tragic, and suitably darkens the truth in a way that feels very... 40k.
My thought has always been that the reason that the Emperor says that he isn't a god is that he is leaving off the word "Yet". Humanity has such an effect on the warp that it seems sensible that if someone wanted to become a god (a well used trope) if they could ascend to the warp with the collection of all humanities focus of you as a god would empower you to/or above chaos god level (the chaos god of devotion). We can see the watered down version of this already with the feeding of the psykers and his ability to act like a god with champions etc.
@@Luetin09 what channels might they be? Your prime content, so if they can hold your attention they are worth giving a watch I suspect. Your god emperor series got me into 40k btw so thank you for that!
I like the idea of the Emperor being the Last Man of Iron, one who managed to hide and win against the Humanity by becoming one of them and controling them.
I cannot convey the excitement and relief I get every time I see an upload and know I have something to listen and relisten to for a while 😩 your channel single handedly brought me into 40k, I don't have any other channels that measure up, not to say that other content creators are "worse", but I just have such expectations for your production that I can't get matched or exceeded as consistently as you anywhere else. You make the best stuff
I'm still super new to 40k fandom and find the lore terribly fascinating - thank you for doing this! You raise a ton of very interesting possibilities regarding the Emperor. Speculative or no, each is infinitely more fitting than the shaman origin. For myself, the Emperor is an extremely captivating figure; not just his actions and what he represents in the setting, but the stark dichotomy between what he *was* and what he *is* now. It seems inevitable that a third state will exist: what he will become.
Thinking of The Emperor as a weapon of Malcador gives me a new perspective on “The Emperor Protects”. As if he’s a shield or guardian-type of construct made by The Sigillite. Thanks for another great video, mate- they always spark a period of inspiration and contemplation for me.
After watching this video, I have come up with my own theory about the Emperor. He was alive during those times he showed Ra, and was there at Babel. When Malcador met the Emperor (Neoth back then), Malcador helped Neoth become the Emperor. Malcador did this by possibly using Elder tech to combine other Sigillite souls into Neoth. This allowed Neoth to grow into power and allowed him to lose his humanity.
My view is that at some point during the golden age the Emporer discovers that the STCs have traces of alien AI. In fact that alien code is from the Void Dragon. The cybernetic revolt is an attempt by the waking Void Dragon to take over humanity to consume them like the Necrontyr before them. Knowing that the mechanicus is in fact a priesthood of the Ctan, the Emporer works during M30 to get humanity back from the brink of being consumed by the Void Dragon to instead miss time the rise of Chaos.
@@Signal_Lost. To expound on it a bit, during the Golden Age the man who will be known as the Emperor discovers that hidden in the STC's and all the AI systems built by them including the Men of Iron are hidden instructions from an alien AI. While the Emperor doesnt know its the Void Dragon he traces the flaw back to the source Mars. The fall happens and mankind suffers the cybernetic revolt. The purpose being the Void Dragon wants to consume the souls of mankind like the Necrontyr to rebuild itself and assume its rightful place as the master of the galaxy; however, as we know the revolt fails. After the cybernetic revolt is done and mankind starts to put itself back together the warp storms caused by the coming of Slaanesh happen. The resulting chaos gives the Emperor the opportunity to consolidate power on Terra. He knows he cant use the old STC technology because it is corrupted by the Void Dragon. So instead he opts for a lower tech approach that relies on using Men over Machines. The goal of the Great Crusade being the unification of mankind so that the Emperor can in turn fight what he knows is the real enemy, the Mechanicus and their Machine God. In this theory the machine spirit is in fact the dreaming mind of the Void Dragon taking an active hand. Unfortunately the Emperor made a mistake in the timing of when his tools would revolt. He planned to complete the Crusade, turn on all the forge worlds at once and smash the Mechanicus and destroy the source of the corruption, and in turn destroy the Astartes after.
I like the idea that perpetuals could be the men of gold. The true deaths of perpetuals being much less common, being much more desirable for the things in the warp.
i like that idea ,although im not sure if the perpetuals/men of gold even have souls, maybe that is why he had to ask the chaos gods for information on how to make his sons because he couldn,t make 20 versions of himself but he could try to make the next best thing genetically altered human sons. a man of gold who wants to be an emperor, but why be an emperor if you can be a god?? much like how the eldar accidently created slaanesh , emps does it on purpose the golden throne was made for that purpose, to offer thousands of souls a day like one giant divine powergenerator battery wich will explode when the terminus decree is activated and it will be the end of the emperor and the start of him being a god. a cold calculated machine like god, that was the only way that man of gold saw to defeat chaos/or kept its equilibrium he needs all the psyker souls and humanity,s faith he can get before that time comes. and he is even already manifesting himself in legion of the damned and divine spirits who can even withstand the necron nulls. he says he doesn,t know the exact future but he knows that every future outcome is not in favor of himself, if humanity dies he will starve off eventually something that goes against his own ruthless logic.. tyranids or necrons or orks or maybe even tau (given their hyperadvanced evolution) or whatever else the future holds its not looking good for the humans nor the eldar.
Good timing, I can sleep and absorb the information simultaneously thanks to the golden throne and the Luetin09 white noise style. Appeased both the algorithm God and the God of likes with a simple thumbs up and share. Tzeentch was pissed though as I had to skip my tithe of changing my bad attitude to chaos Gods. Keep up the good work fella and, as always, stay safe!
I too love falling asleep to Luetin's lore videos. Theyre interesting enough to keep me entertained, but the way he speaks is chill enough that I can drift off when it's time. Perfect sleeping aid for this insomniac
@@TacSav253 Another vote from me for sleeping to Leutin09. Whether or not sleep learning is a thing I always get some rest. And then I can listen again when awake. Cheers Leutin!
I like to think that Malcador was so set on safekeeping the "human spirit" that he and parts of his order would do anything to guide humanity, even subjugate and commit terrible acts all in the name of the greater good. Eventually he saw the potential and the raw, untapped power in the Warlord that all other Perpetuals either tried to stop or steered well clear of. The absolute hubris and blind ambition of this Warlord could be shaped and given purpose, he could be turned into an avatar of humanity, an infallible Emperor, the Master of Mankind... of course guided by the righteous hand of Malcador. But not even Malcador could predict just how terrible the Emperor would become when focused down a single path and steering towards a singular goal, and eventually he lost control of his vision of what the Emperor would be for humanity; every plan and project tainted and taken to extremes by the weapons-grade hubris that the Emperor possessed. In the end it didn't matter if Malcador guided and mentored him, it didn't matter if Malcador helped him grow his powers and utilizing his powers of foresight to set humanity on the path to ascendancy. Eventhough clad in splendid gold, commanding an army of geneforged, unwavering warriors, with demi-god sons conquering the galaxy for him; he was never the Emperor, he stayed the tyrranical Warlord. Malcador always saw that denying that the Emperor was a god wouldn't changed the fact that he in reality was as close to one you could come and that the day the Emperor would realize this himself and throw away his thinly veiled humanity and truly grasp his divinity would be the end of all. So Malcador made sure that he had a plan hidden even from the Emperor, a chain of events that would eventually lead to the death of the Emperor and the Imperium they had tried to build. If he couldn't control the Emperor, he would still make use of his raw powers, the secret purpose of the Golden Throne would be utilized for the good of all... So the seeds of heresy was sown, and in the dark future of the 41st millenium the fruits we reap from that tree is only war.
If his story is close to what is claimed, we could see a similar situation with other fictional immortals, during the golden age he simply withdrew in on himself. Perhaps he settled on a distant world far away from it all, with his more aesthetic pursuits and only irregular contact with humanity. He might have gotten so detached that the machine war caught him unprepared, stranded and having to salvage a ship together millenia after he had last done anything like it
I think a better way of conceptualizing the “oldness” of warp entities is though the lens of size rather than age. We as 3rd dimensional beings, view time very linearly, however, when seen as an additional dimension it is more a metric of how much room an entity take up in that axis.
If the emperor is a gestalt of previous perpetuals, it could have a strong epigenetic memory. I mean he is basically a copy of the emperor of Dune. It's conceivable that in creating him memories weren't necessary but inevitable. When you create an inevitable, it's created forward and backward in time, because something something the warp works in mysterious ways. I also like to think that the Emperor made a deal with the Men of Iron. The Golden age was AI's attempt at a Utopia. The AI actually lost control of itself. It just took a lot of attrition to convince the computer that the only winning move was not to play. AIs were reduced to machine spirits. The number of sentient machines is kept to as small a number as possible, often disguised as simple technology. The extra accurate laz-rifle has it's own motivation in a plan lasting centuries, but only just enough to accomplish its goals. I'm pretty sure there is an STC running The Golden Throne. Inside it is the gestalt of the Men of Iron. Directly Networked to the Emperor. Previously psychically, now physically and psychically. Only by combining with the AI, could intelligence be controlled. Both man and machine. Only together was there the chance of overcoming chaos, separately both were doomed. Being machines already AI was easier to change. That's also why stc's that supposedly are making things to a high-tech standard, instead of spitting out Gothic terror machines. STC plans themselves have built-in adaptations. Something you would need at least one GAI for. Also explains how the Bane Blade could be a scout vehicle. It was originally a tracked RV for hostile environments. All smooth and shiny and bubble canopy and stuff. Since it was just the most convenient chassis, it was adapted from a "scout" vehicle. Probably even having its name changed. All influenced by the Emperor's subconscious. Just some random ideas I like.
I painted minis back in the 80s and I've only recently gotten back into Warhammer, currently reading the HH. This section of the story The Lightning Tower intrigues me: "Would you tear them all down?“ Dorn turned at the sound of the voice. For a moment, it had sounded like the soft growl of his father. But it was just a man, a cloaked and cowled man scarcely half Dorn's height. His robes were those of a simple palace administrator. "What did you say?“ asked Dorn. The man walked out into the circle of the Investiary to face Dorn. He greeted him with the old salute of Unity rather than the sign of the aquila. "You were staring at the statues of your kin,“ he observed. "I asked… would you tear them all down?“ "The statues or my kin, Sigillite?“ Dorn replied. There is a conflation here of Malcador and The Emperor.
The best channel for Warhammer content by far. The level of detail that goes into these videos and the way that you approach it Luetin is something really special. I hope you aren't overdoing it. We can't lose you in these dark times.
29:35 I do like the idea that Emps went to Morloch to empower the Primarchs. Over and over again, the Primarchs cheat death and almost seem to bend fate in order accomplish their goals. This first stuck out to me in the HH book 'Betrayer' when Lorgar is wrapped up in listening to the song of the warp while trying to make Angron ascend. Then suddenly its like the record player breaks and the song is lost when he sees Guilliman is practically on top of him. He's confused because he never saw Guilliman on the planet in his foresight. But Guilliman seems to defy fate itself. It also plays into idea that only a Primarch can kill another Primarch. Only their own fate bending power can let them kill another Primarch. Fulgrim killing Ferrus, Horus killing Sanguinius and Emps killing Horus through sheer psychic will. You could even argue that Emps isn't able to "Kill" Horus, he has to instead delete him from existence as though he never was.
Not sure if this is related, but the idea of the Emperor being the first murderer reminded me of Sigmar and, how as a young man, was infuriated at his close friend Wolfgart for beating him in a sparring match. He then in a fit of rage struck Wolfgart with his warhammer while his back was turned. Of course, he only broke his arm, and Sigmar immediately saw through his cloud of anger and dropped his warhammer, but it seemed vaguely familiar when you brought up the first murderer theory.
And how Paul (in Dune) killed Jamis (thanks for the correction) who, in one timeline, was his friend and taught him the Freemen ways, but instead is killed in a duel in the first meet. It may sound strange but the more I learn about Dune, especially Paul and double it for Leto II, the more I feel I have a grasp on the Emperor. I feel like the reason we don't get a lot of details about him is because of how much of it is lifted from the Dune series in the early days before they cared about IP law.
No doubt sci-fi and especially 40k were influenced by Herbert (Dune) and Asimov (Foundation) like all fantasy was influenced by Tolkien. In my head-canon the forgotten ages of technology were basically Foundation, maybe collapsing into Dune, then slowly rebuilt by an amoral god-emperor out of touch with humanity and focused on a mysterious goal of hiding humans from powerful entities.
I just bought my first codex and figures for the tabletop a few days ago thanks to the passion you have in no small part grown in me over the last year. Thank you for your dedication.
In some of my darkest times your videos come along to make me forget this terrible world and make it look a bit better in contrast to the 40k universe.
I feel like multiple versions of the Emperors story could all be true. He could have been the strongest perpetual, and because of this was used for experiments during the dark age of technology to become a weapon. If this was only done AFTER the men of iron had already attacked, in a desperate attempt to stop them, then he may simply have been too late and unable to prevent humanity's downfall. He decides to take control of humanity afterwards, perhaps fumbles at it a bit and meets Malkador who offers him the guidance he needed to do the job effectively. And the rest is history.
Maybe the Emperor is a kind of pseudo-'pataphysical being. Perhaps when he awakened to his full power on ancient Terra, he gained some insight into the weird paradoxical nature of the eternalist timeline of the warp, which allowed him a limited ability to scry that timeline. It would basically make him a weaker version of the chaos gods, having a part of his mind able to messily see all of time, but no ability to say, transpose demons into reality in ways that break continuity. That could explain his extreme degree of foresight, and it would put him in the bizarre category of characters that contains weirdos like Talos of Atmora from TES.
The Emperor reminds me a bit of Doctor Manhattan. An aberration that lives simultaneously across probable time, whose knowledge of his outcomes ends with The Cataclysm. In the case of Doctor Manhattan, this gives him access to a new existence without foreknowledge. For the Emperor, it ends with entombment in the Golden Throne.
I always like to think the lost Primarchs where Science types. And one was a Harri Selden type who saw all this shit coming. An Isaac Asimov character would totally be the type to be purged form memory in 40k.
I like to think Sigmar beat him in a wrestling match and Big E thought “oh shit can’t have that” and banished him to a pocket dimension. And the whole thing is so heretical that even GW denies it.
One disappeared investigating the Necron anomaly at the edge of the Galaxy. He was a quiet, stoic and gruff individual, who took risks, like conquering a planet with VERY few Astartes. But thats literally all we know
28:35 Definitely an idea worthy of additional thought regarding the Emperor’s origin. 29:05 Particularly because of this. I mean, hello, we have the tools right here. Motive, means, opportunity all in one place. Not embracing this possibility is like finding a set of keys directly outside of a key-maker’s shop and then wondering, “Where did these keys come from?”
Theory: The Emperor is the last of the Old Ones. This explains his obsession of creating new forms of humans and ushering in the next level of superhuman whether it is a thunderwarrior, space marine, primarch, and now the primaris. This explains how he was able to trap a Void Dragon since he fought them during the War in Heaven. This explains how he can make a webway since the Old Ones taught the eldar how to make them. The Old Ones were able to manipulate the warp on a galactic scale during the war in heaven. After the Great Rift opened, this was a signal to the Silent King that one last Old One remained and initiated his return.
Sure But thry would make the Necrons look at him VERY differently Szarekh has even spoken of the Emperor with Dante.... Trayzn has spoken of him etc. Im pretty sure they would all B-Line for Terra to kill their most hated enemy Or, if he was an Old One, that would be justification to use the Celstial Orrery.
Or perhaps was sitting on his hands during the golden age because humanity had "won." Strong, united, and galaxy wide. Then the Men of Iron destroyed it all and the Age of Strife happened so the Emperor decided he had to become more forceful at that time. For me, I think the Emperor was created in humanity's ancient past by a dying old one, who foresaw humanity as the galaxy's last great hope.
Head a really tough day, now coming home to see Luetin pumping out another one of these absolute grenades. Thanks for making youtube 40k still worthwhile with your content. Blessings and greets.
Brill vid as always Luetin. I know the shaman theory is controversial, but I feel that one of the main properties of the 40k lore is "sacrifice", be it the ones we take upon ourselves or the ones we force upon others. I like the idea that the shamans sacrificed themselves as a final gift to humanity to create the Emperor, but not all of them died. Some were assigned to be the sigilites, an order dedicated to finding psykers in the world, and later the galaxy, and bringing them to the Emperor to be sacrificed and empower him, similar to how Malacador himself does just before the Emperor is interned on the golden throne, and that thousands of psykers do daily to sustain the Emperor's power. I feel like this explains why there's no/very few psykers in humanity's history, up until the golden age when things became too big to manage and things like navigators and astropaths were discovered and utilised. I also believe the opening of the eye of terror was the catalyst for the Emperor to begin his plans. A new chaos god birthed in the immaterium? The warring amongst themselves as Slaanesh vied to establish control of her new realm, the original 3 warred to prevent the upstart's power from getting out of control, and the three taking advantage to backstab each other, would surely have been a great distraction. Hence "this war began before we were ready" from Malcador. The gods being distracted with each other was a perfect opportunity for the Emperor to step out into the galaxy and show his hand, even though they may not have properly juiced up the Emperor. I feel like this also neatly explains the seeming rush the Emperor shows during the great crusade. They had to complete their goals before the gods were able to turn back properly to the material realm.
Holy Heresy Batgirl! :O Sounds to me like calling the Emperor a weapon left out of its box, running rampant, is to call him a robot or, at least, an artificial life - created, in any case.
I like the Relic gone rogue theory. I’ve often wondered, couldn’t the Golden Throne be an STC itself. Even the emperor doesn’t seem to know how it came to be, fully. How bout they are one and the same or two parts of the same production. That by linking with the throne, HE can access the warp in such a way as to ascend into Godhood. That HE doesn’t want AI development in fear of what it can become….competition. What if HE is an STC along with the Throne and that combining the two allows a “machine” to become a real living esoteric God. It’s not like any STC we see is some 3d printer like they are talked about. Consider the Spirit of Eternity or the Castigator Titan. Just like the Spirit needed it’s ‘bond mate’ what if the Emperor need the Throne and Malcidor helped pull it all together .
I sort of think that the emperor may be a perpetual. Those periods in human history where he definitely WOULD have been meddling and interacting but didn’t, I sort of wonder if he was maybe just dead. Maybe the reason he hasn’t come back yet is because his soul is still tethered to the Golden Throne and thus prevented from being reborn in the natural cycle. Maybe the Men of Iron were his mistake to begin with and he was among the first to die. As the instigator and victim of such an event, it makes sense that he’d be so against AI.
I think the first murder was the death of the Emperors father by his uncle. The Emperord first kill was giving his uncle a heart attack in revenge. Likely also the first revenge.
I've always had a theory that he's something of a synthetic or partially synthetic life form. Maybe he was an ordinary man but with the tech golden age humans had, he may have been enhanced in such a way that made him an immortal warrior like the men of gold. I also thought maybe at the end of the war with the A.I. that maybe they "infected" him as a final revenge since they could see he or the others may have taken over humanity. This would create the future we see now where the emperor's vision of awfulness has come to fruition and maybe it was the men of iron's design. A lot more I could write about that but way too tired.
Oh, and don't forget that the Emperor seems to have some degree of mastery over "Enochian", the ability to alter reality using some fundamental "language code" underlying reality. That was the point of the Tower incident he had with Ollanius in ancient times. He could be a God just being a perpetual and psyker, then gaining "Enochian" abilities.
EDIT: to clarify, in the books, "Enochian" is the language of Baal Secundus, "Enuncia" is the language of reality manipulation; in real-world occult circles, "Enochian" is referred to by Crowley and others as being equivalent to "enuncia" in 40k lore.
I’m commenting because this man deserves community interaction. Incredible work as always, and your videos always are a must watch as soon as they pop up.
RE - The Emperor was created. Be very interesting if Malcador was actually the original "Perfect Human", the one who had been brought in to being by the conclave of the Shamans and in the 27th Millennium, Malcador (now aged due to the effect of Slannesh's birth on the Immaterium and being 35,000 years old), cloned himself and made a few tweaks, resulting in the creation of the Emperor and Mally's willingness to do anything for him.
He is definitely a Man of Gold. The pinnacle of human achievement. But after seeing the death caused by the Men of Iron and the folly of the man of Stone he realized his kind should not exist. He removed every other Man of Gold and decided he would have to lead humanity towards a path that would never lead to AI again. Maybe Malcador was more involved or not idk.
Okay, NOW I have an Idea- The Emperor being a powerful perpetual & psyker in the ancient past, but then 'Uplifted' by Dark Age of Tech- Tech, actually fits perfectly with being the Martian Omnissiah. It also explains why he would take a 'Hands Off' approach to the Mechanicum.
I swear everytime I'm in the mood to look up 40k lore you make a new video. Thanks, you're the best in the business in my opinion. I'm building a Gladiator and a squad of hellblasters while listening to this.
You, sir, are THE reason I became interested in the Grim Dark. Currently reading through the Horus Heresy, and without having seen your videos first, I would have been completely lost trying to figure out the "continuity". Well done and thank you!
I've always thought that in the case of the Emperor the line between him being a super charged psyker and an actual god was indistinguishable because he is/was so far beyond any human, even Malcador.
So I have a good theory for you and I hope as your videos inspired it, I will short hand it but I call it The emporer, puppet of malcador Consider the following, when we hear tales in lore about the sigulits they are always altruistic and pure, using powers for good but let's look at things we know (from characters perspective) 1) the sigulit edited history (as he said to horus) 2) the sigulits did something terrible resulting in a massive loss of life (what he referred to as nessasary loss of life) 3) the emporer and the sigulit are surprisingly close to each other (but outside of being a powerful psycher the emporer should have no need of a friend really) So my theory flipped a few things on its head Act one) the death of the sigulits isn't as altruistic as shown (explaining both their power and why they are gone) I propose that the sigulits first gained their powers by noticing that people that died in their worship gave them power, they were psychic humans who got stronger the more people died for them... however they argued about how best to rule starting wars (ironically getting stronger and stronger) it was then our sigulit noticed on the death of other sigulits he gained the power boost... essentially spurring a war to decide humanities fate of worshipping these gods into a power battery war (not dissimilar to the eldar use of souls) The war wittles down the number till one powerful sigulit remains, malcador but what to do, hes all powerful but learned a valuable lesson,He has learned if humanity has a religion there will always be those that oppose it, he creates the emporer not as a God but to play the role of the scientist, claiming there is no God but creating a reverse effect that people worship him without creating doubters as he is his worst doubter, the emporer has no soul he is a puppet that is being pulled by malcador this is why when he drops the vale people lose hope, there is nothing there.... only emptiness Act two) encounter with choas The puppet and his master now go around uniting humanity, it is important that the edicts come from the emporer as this àllows people to worship him without worshiping him giving power to malcador through his puppet and battery, while they unite humanity he discovers the chaos gods beings stronger than him and could definitely make things difficult BUT THIS IS THE GENIUS OF HIS PLAN by using the emporer as a puppet he goes to the realm of chaos he wants their power and offers his soul in exchange for this power, the choas gods happily accept because they could rule humanity through the soul of the emporer BUT ITS THE FINE PRINT HERE THE EMPORER HAS NO SOUL AND THATS WHAT THEY WERE OFFERED malcador has just stolen fire from the gods and they are pissed but can do nothing because it was them that made a deal for nothing, the emporer puppet goes on to create the primarks as his generals and warriors to help him if the gods come after him (remember lion el Johnson was created to be immune to chaos he did so because if he only had one son then he needed him to fight chaos off) they created the herasy to take out the primarks after everything was done as the puppet was always clear that the rule should go to man, once the primarks were dead malcador would park the puppet on the throne and rule "for him" being his word and will, he would continue to get souls because the emporers chair had collection built into it so he could gain them and if people wised up the sigulit would simply pull the energy into him and then start again Act 3 the hiccups in the plan) so three problems happened, 1 lorgar being a big twat started worshipping the emporer with his legion openly, if he has a religion there will be another to oppose it and as such another war and he wanted to unite humanity against the aliens and chaos not have civil wars, so he smacks lorgar down hoping that his display would get him in line but that co incides with problem 2 the chaos gods figure out that the emporer can only have the council of men rule humanity if all the space marines are dead the God puppet doesn't have that power alone and they discover the civil war plot.... they take 9 of the legions and they go to war giving the emporer what he wanted but powering up his opponents, the sigulite has the most pressing problem... he is human and is growing old he might die before his plan is complete but he has a wonderfully perfect body he can take, the emporer of man and then sitting magnus on the throne (which is why they both had such a strong connection to magnus AND offered him numerous times to turn back he was the back up battery they needed) but he went to the enemy so malcador vows to fix things after the herasy Act 4) conclusion and supporting evidence - the emporer puppet takes the field he was designed for war but it came at a bad time the web way was vulnerable malcador is stretched thin, he sends his puppet to get horus head but in doing so he must sit the throne himself (all good he can transfer over to the emporer) but he gets wrecked in the fight he's stuck on the edge of eternity with two crippled bodies he transfers his power all into the crippled emporer (it has the best chance of survival) and sits the throne assuming the role of a God for the wars to come My supporting evidence outside of it all fitting is that gulliman says his father has changed, it would be because it was no longer a puppet that sat before him but something real with a soul I hope you like it and if you do make a video expanding it just a shout out is needed
i personally have always thought that the Emperor was Malice. the idea i had was that the 5 chaos gods decided to send one of their own into the physical world to prepare the 'perfect' race that could raise them all up higher, enter here humans. so they pick a human who has the greatest psychic power and help malice possess him so that he may go on to prepare humans. the Emperor then begins his takeover, but spreads the word that there are no gods. in an effort to starve the 4 left in the warp. the ultimate backstab intended to leave him the winner of the Great Game. the 4 chaos gods in the warp then meddle with the creation of the primarchs and contaminate some of them. once the Emperor has found all the missing sons he goes back to terra. he has set things up to bring about the heresy in the idea that he will be able to kill off the contaminated primarchs and to set up the golden throne for Magnus. the throne once completed will block the daemons from the warp and serving to be the final plug to starve the chaos gods while the Emperor remains in the physical world. but then the heresy kicks off sooner than expected and Magnus turns traitor and the Emperor ends up on an unfinished throne. trapped in a body forced to stay alive. preventing him from properly dying and being reborn. so what if Malcador is instead Malice and he created the Emperor to be his personal herald? like his own Epidemius, his own greater daemon. the primarchs were created to be daemon princes. so the visions the Emperor shows people are from Malcador, but he really believes they are his memories.
The Emperor doesn’t need an stc machine because he has one, but it creates the components that make men/xenos that will do what he needs. I think that the emperor can see far into the future but some times he is blindsided by his ability. The end of the golden age, The death of Malcador, himself getting stuck on the golden throne. I think the emperor does not react well to unexpected situations and generally makes poor choices when does have too.
I think a good way of understanding the Emperor is to understand the God-Emperor from Dune, Leto II with aspects of Paul (I feel like the Emperor was based on Paul then the writer read God-Emperor of Dune and the later books and he got his power up).
Maybe a character should ask one of the surviving AI's, let's say in a STC or one of Mars' ancient ships, about the Emperor. My two cents are on answers given in rage and anger.
Well, according to the lore, the AI would have no info on him. He wasn’t really making waves in the golden age, officially at least. Molech’s AI might have something if it’s still around somewhere, but a random AI or stc prolly wouldn’t have any info.
Outside the box - I'd love to hear speculation/discussion on how Tyrranids could be eradicated. Ships breaching drives to drag them into the Warp in an imperium wide effort?
The servitor thing is actually a scary thought when it comes to perpetuals... Have we seen one being made into a servitor? A never dying body but with all thought taken from them. Never dying but never able to think or act for themselves. It'd be the ultimate way to stop a perpetual.
@@stormjet814 if it's replaced with metal that itself could be a slow and painful process. Also I think they only regenerate on death rather than just any injuries
I personally really like the idea that the Emperor is a god and either always has been, or somehow became one, so more speculation on that is always great (on that note, I really need to go back and re-watch your entire Emperor series again). I'd also like to see more speculation on just what exactly the Emperor's minions are as well. More delving into what people like the Living Saints (Celestine, etc.) and the Legion of the Damned really are, their origins. Are they really, for lack of a better term, "Imperial Demons" or are they something else entirely?
The first murder makes me think of the Biblical Cain which in some interpretations was cursed with immortality and misfortune would follow him everywhere he went. In 40k maybe that story was based on truth. He'd gain great knowledge despite this and over time might seek to come out as the Emperor. Plays into the idea from your previous video that terrible things keep happening around the Emperor even despite what his intentions may be.
My thoughts were much the same, though I had something to add. In a 40k context, the First Murder reminds me of the Eldar war god Khaela Mensha Khaine, who, if you didn't catch the reference in the name *Khaine,* was said to commit the first murder among the Eldar.
I actually love the idea that the Emperor might genuinely believe the origin of the shamen might have memories and whatnot streaching all these lives. Hell they might BE actual lives and memories that have all been condensed into him Now at the behest of Melchador right as humanity fell. This explains both Emps's hubris and his leaning on Supermen Transhumans as saviors, and the fact that he does not have any personal backups that you'd think he would have made from the ages past if for no other reason than having that personal repository. Emps being birthed, possibly from a collection of perpetuals and other psychers solves a lot of these plothole issues since Emps would have been birthed outright believing he was the messiah and the hope. So his arrogance was through the roof. So he lacks the wisdom you'd think someone who hails from the begining of the age of agriculture if not before. I think GW isn't going to go with that because it's... TOO good and makes too much sense and one of the halmarks of the setting is just how braindead STUPID everything is. So. Kudos for the theory. Even if it isn't what is, I love it for the sake of solving a LOT of the problems that exist with the Emperor. Edit: To further expand on this. The Sigilites saw the fall, but lacked the wherewithal to get a STC. They saw other orders and cabals making transhuman Champions and 'well. Why don't we.... except all their champions lack something, that ineffable connection to the sea of souls. Experiance. Knowledge. They're hulking brutes that might be born geniuses but are very clearly pawns.' And then severla of their ownComingle their essences with other stock. Maybe not all of it willingly given. Maybe a few of those transhuman superbeing monsters were also sacraficed on the alter of generating something as potent as the Emperor. Then Melchador was appointedthe Emperor's minder. Someone who would be there obstinently as an advisor. But also to ensure their narritive of the Emperor having ambition and history BEFORE meeting the sigilites takes hold. that way he has this mythological origin to those he encounters rather than 'oh joy another group of techno barbarians whipped up a messiah in the ez bake oven.' As for him refrencing a past? Maybe it's those past lives. Other perpetuals that knew him refrencing those lives because from their perspective. Emps is the same being. Just a whole BUNCH of beings put into one container. Especially the morep sychicly aware ones would feel his essence as beign both familair yet more grand. Also part of it could just be the Emperor's own psyche trying to craft a past for itself, much like blade-runenr replicants. Using that storehouse of memories and experiance to craft a sense of self and declare that this is so as much for his own mental welbeing as anyone else or propaganda's sake. Maybe that's the real reason the Thunder Warriors were put down. They were his army, yes, but they also to a man knew the secret the Emperor could NEVER allow to get out. Melchador was his confidant, his companion, and almost likea father. The troops? Get one drunk enough and they'll talk. Sew DOUBT in the masses, even if the thunder warriors themsleves were absolutely loyal. Also. The space marines themsleves aren't so grand. Maybe that's for stability and applying the templates to a wider range of humans, but maybe... just maybe that was to prevent an uprising. take Chaos out of the picture and the Legions would have been counter-able by the rank and file,. Oh sure it'd be BLOODY, but it'd be Doable. Having thunder warrior Legions? they'dh ave scythed through anything near unopposed.
When Ole Perrson was the Emperor's Warmaster, he ran his sword through the Emperor when he realized the Emperor was planning to use the enuncia tower for his own ends, instead of destroying it. So he was already making secret plans that went against what he said he wanted to do. Like, he was already being hypocritical about his quest for power.
My theory on the Emperor's origin was that long ago, he took a job as a Jesus impersonator, but then things got way out of hand. Great video, as always!
Awesome video! I find The Emperor to be supremely interesting and these theories only made it more so! The Sigilite construction theory also took me down the path in my mind, where The Emperor might have existed long before as a perpetual and a psyker, but upon encountering the Sigilites they MADE him into what he is now. It would be like a human child being turned into a Astartes, they basically cranked up his power completely off the scale (and perhaps they even put him throughan indoctrination program? Speculating purely). That would also fit with Malcador at one point remarking on his own hand in making the Emperor so powerful.
I’m convinced the Emperor is a pinnacle AI from the dark age who fought against man and after losing is playing a longer game. His deal with chaos was for a ‘soul’ / warp power
I like both the idea that the emperor is something other than human (be it a warp entity or a weapon) or a strong psyker that is full of himself playing god in the human empire and rotting it from the inside out.
This guy speaks so much heresy in such a short time you literally expect to hear a loud bang on the door with "Inquisition, open up!" from the background, from around 10 minutes onward...
Any video of yours that goes up is an immediate must watch. Love how seriously you take these things, and how deep your vids get. Thanks for another amazing time :D
Videos like this are why I enjoy lore so much, especially the lengthy ones. Thanks for the hard work that must have gone into your channel, I love hearing more about the dark universe of warhammer.
![40K DARK ORIGINS [1] Chaos Gods, Time & The Warp | WARHAMMER 40,000 History/Lore](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WxZMOAmtWPw/mqdefault.jpg)
![40K - THE GREAT NACHMUND WAR [2]: VIGILUS BURNS | Warhammer 40,000 Lore/History](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vIleXU_5eZE/mqdefault.jpg)
Right then, so the reason I was longer than usual to get a vid up this month became a bit of a juggling act. So although its taken some extra time, you can rest assured that I already have one other full vid ready to go this month, and I hope to get a couple of others out as well. PLUS next week, there may even be a bit of livestream action. Enjoyed the vid? Like - Comment. Helps me out, appreciate as always your continued support for me and the channel 👍
Take all the time you need man!
The loremaster speaks, and we shall listen
Good morning
Take extra time ! Your videos are always worth the wait !
Thank you .
Since the new guard codex and model releases are coming soon, will we be getting a full guard video/videos?
Never even seen a warhamer figure in real life, but I could just about have a lengthy discussion on the lore at this point.
Truely you are the Loremaster.
Lol I’ve never played 40k either.
That's how I started 5 years ago. Started collecting the miniatures about a year ago and now I have tons of them.
*Loremaster
Come join us. Plastic crack is great.
That’s the great thing ? Some paint, collect, Read, table top RPG, lore & story listen!! But we’re all similarly fascinated & we have that in common!!!
I always had it in my head The Emperor’s uncle was the first murderer. One of the visions shown to Ra was the emperor as a child contemplating the skull of his father, seeing that it was his uncle that murdered him and strolling over and stopping his uncles heart with a thought.
Yeah thats how I read it. I thought it mentions that this was the origins of the tale of Cain and Able
Except that that'd make him the second murderer.
@whenpigsfly8178 that woild only be true if the fathers death wasn't justified. It wasn't just murder that fulfilled the role but it was taking a life for a reason other than survival. It's possible the emperors father attacked his uncle due to a misunderstanding and his uncle killed in self defense. The emperor was aware of the situation and knew his uncle was in the right to do what he did but stopped his heart anyway, it would fulfill the conditions
Well, I know what I'm lisening to as I go to sleep
lol same
its gonna take 5 days for me to finish this video
Lutin is literally the best at telling good night stories for grownups.
And then again the next day because I feel like I missed something🤠
Good for you
I don't play 40k, never have and probably never will. But I love the lore surrounding it and your work on it is absolutely the best. Thanks for all the work you put into it.
Plenty of people who don't play the game, but only do the lore (such as the books), plenty of people who only enjoy the painting and not the playing.
That's the good thing of this hobby, there is enough room for multiple different kinds of fans.
I'm sure there will be plenty of fans who only follow the upcoming TV show.
@@avinashtyagi2exactly I enjoy the lore and the games I’m the space marine and dark tide
@avinashtyagi2 couldn't be more tru. As I'm in my late 40s , I started painting figures late 80s early 90s , then played casually [it gets pricey here in the US for warhammer stuff] then as I got older, literally recently , did I start learning all the lore and falling in love with 40k all over again. As I build alot of 1:10 rc stuff (realism over performance lol) I'm thinking of painting again. People used to pay me to paint their armies locally in my youth. I'm feeling as I've been away too long.
One of my favorite aspects of the lore is the speculation. The ambiguity of some of the storyline and characters let's our minds do a lot of world building.
Perhaps a bit too much, imo.
speculation? sounds like heresy with more steps.
@@arkosilaura there can never be too much speculation!
@@chaomatic5328as long as there’s answers eventually. For example always gonna wonder who the blood ravens’ primarch was
@@joshuacarpenter5997 Aren't they just an offshoot from the Blood Angels?
The Emperor was three psykers in a trench coat
I like the idea of the Emperor being an Old One weapon from the past. I remember in an audiobook, Belasarius is being interrogated by a C’tan and is catching up on current events. The C’tan calls the Chaos gods psychic disturbances and the emperor a weapon. Maybe it’s nothing or I’m misinterpreting, but I like the idea the C’tan recognize him as trouble.
The Emperor is most probably a weapon against AI. No matter who forged this weapon, it's clear that, at some point, his powers and reach could have handed him a relic STC, an ancient AI, a gravity weapon or something equally game changing. The fact that he never used such things means that he suppressed such findings, under the realizaton that the greatest threat to humanity weren't the deamons or the xenos but our own tech. During the dark/golden age of technology there were robots fighting the wars, STC's constructing the hardware and AI's making the decisions. Down this path, humanity would have been uploaded, absorbed by the machines and the easy/eternal life they promised. Keeping humanity alive meant keeping the existential, survivalistic insticts sharp. And this meant perpetual war both against others and itself.
How very Frank Herbert. Its sounds like the Emperor of man and Emperor Leto the second have a lot in common motivation wise at least.
@@lnwolf7563 You got me. Herbert is my favorite sci fi author and it obviously shows. Here's another possible plot twist for you. Why are the tyranids invading the Milky Way? Are they expanding or running from something? If so, what are the tyranids running from? (wink wink).
@@archimedesnation Indeed the AI is still out there and it has grown exponentially stronger in the years since it was driven from the human worlds. The god Emperor introduced this constant state of war so that humanity would have a fighting chance when the AI does make it back. Almost sounds like we have read this story before doesn't it.
W40k may be even stranger than anything in Dune. The C'tan told Cawl. ""The third is a weapon.There is war. The… rift? A rift has opened. The purity of reality is polluted. The war continues. Our war. You fight it.". What Cawl wants from the C'tan is the secret for the pylons that sealed the warp over Cadia and elsewhere. The pylons were originally created by the necrons to fight the Old Ones, who first used the warp, right? So the Necrontyr and the C'tan actually want the same thing with humans (contain the warp), right? But humans are supposed to be children of the Old Ones, the C'tan enemies. The Emperor is human and the greatest psyker ever, so presumably he's a weapon of the Old Ones against the likes of C'tan and Necrontyr. A weapon forged to ensure that humans wouldn't end up enslaved in a machine like the necrontyr. But this weapon, like the Aeldari gods, feeds on the warp. A weapon forged to fight the machines but ended up stirring the warp and releasing demons. So it's either the machines or the warp and humanity (unknowingly) sided with the warp.
This channel made me fall in love with Warhammer universe ❤️❤️❤️
Such quality content worth waiting
Same here, even bought my first figures to paint this weekend
@@ericzollman8751 thats how it starts. now you'll never escape the hobby
@@cmdraftbrn this is how invested i became because of Luetin, I ordered some figures to paint. And cause im usually busy during the week and im off work by the time my local shops close, I have this whole thing planned for this weekend, gnna suck just looking at the figures and all the stuff i bought and know I cant really touch it till saturday, or else I wont sleep enough lol
THIS
This and the astartes video
Tinfoil theory : The Emperor is actually one of the most powerful (and first) AIs that waged war against humanity, that became disillusioned with the war and it decided to create a biological body to be able to harness the power of the warp via Psychic powers. It realised it had to gain the ability to absorb souls to empower it's own abilities so that it could proceed with it's own long game
That could lend towards why seeing the His true form is off putting to people because the AI reflects some human traits but they know it really isn't human also the dark age AI being so intelligent could explain why his psyker abilities are so beyond eveything else
It's all ork'sbelieving in a good fight. So they willed the imperium in to being. Joking all aside the lore is awsome
Me: "Right, half ten on a Sunday. Got work tomorrow so time for bed"
Luetin video drops
Me "Sleep is for the weak"
15 to 1 am; sleep is for the weak 🤓
The Ruinous Powers never sleep.
Only in death do lore narration and speculation stop.
That theory about big E being invented by Malcador and the perpetuals and their subsequent fear in his presence got me thinking. Speculating perhaps the 2 lost primarchs and their gene seed progeny could not get over that aura of foreboding. Like seeing the beast behind the mask (1st Murder?). But rather than being prone to rebel to the Chaos gods, the two lost sons of the Emperor could see through the veil and in the back of his mind the Emperor was more fearful of the rest of his sons finding out this deeper truth. This potentially would have been more devastating to big E's presumed plans than turning to Chaos... so they were quietly removed and their progeny, if any, were "Thunder Warrior'ed"
This makes a lot of sense including why they were expunged from the records. That really scared the other primarchs.
Dude, you keep pumping these out like a MACHINE. ...Wait, you kinda are a tech priest of the Mechanicum working as a lore master.
He doesn't represent the Logistar Lorcanium
the Loremaster is something more than machine... he is British.
Hay that’s the way I like it ! As long as it’s relevant!
I knew it he's been a dark age AI this whole time
The reason for your numbers building over time is that some of us save your presentations for when we can actually watch them with our full attention. Ive just finished work and came home to an empty house. Glass of whiskey (or two) and The Loremaster of Mankind, Leutin09. Such glorious paths you lead us on! A comment for the mighty Rhythms of All Gore! A like for the blessings of the Machine! *heavy gasmask noises intensifies*
I’m watching for the first time rn
Yep. I save these videos up for months then when I'm ready and back in the Warhammer mood I binge them all.
Same, I usually wait for when I'm free enough to get high.....
leutin = Putin?
@@ClaimClam ?!
The emperor was a Tzeenchian plant to create the ultimate engine of human intrigue, violence, excess, and decay. He even left a little watermark, a two headed bird.
You, my good Sir, have killed it! This is my headcanon now :D
For the first theory, I thought he might be the first person murdered and thus the first human perpetual. He came back with immeasurable power as the first human to go to and come back from the warp during a pivotal moment.
Oh wow he's Cain nice theory
Meant able
That's some juicy theorizing, I tell you what
@@robomonkey1018 My name is Cain, Ciaphas Cain
Emperor is Able theory. I like it. Would explain his inability to defeat the daemon. It was made from his murder, something he could never overcome.
@@GeronimoPlaz No, Dark Brandon is the Emperor
Bro you are carrying warhammer for sooo many people out there. Your work is legendary. You brought me in years ago and I thank you for that. Luetin09 is a big part of warhammer for me. May the emperor protect you from the corruption of the chaos gods.
I like the idea of the Emperor "sitting out" the age of Strife to have a more malleable humanity to rule, however there is also to consider the fact that the Emperor, while being portrayed as a perfect paragon of power, has actually shown Himself to be quite fallible. Many times
He made mistakes and I believe it is simply very possibile that he wasn't able to help during the Age of Strife, maybe he even tried for what we know, because is Him who wrote the story of the Imperium and he might have just chosen to omit some "minor" details about his very human fallibility.
Luetin's heretical boogaloo part 2
That throwaway line about writing a script at 4am is in my opinion all the proof that I need to see that you enjoy making these videos as much as we enjoy listening to them. A trillion blessings upon you and the people you hold dear. Cheesy I know, but ultimately an honest wish. Thank you again for your content
I think an opportunity and grimly empathetic point about faith/Warp energy and The Emperor comes from the Siege of Terra: where we're seeing his apotheosis as a god of desperation.
Saturnine especially detailed how I think mankind started creating a deity that's positive in the Imperium's way: "He defends us as we defend him". He's being dehydrated (metaphysically), alone, hunted and chased and old. Desperately holding on. And his followers are the same. Chaos is laughing. And the mix of tenacity, fighting out of this new honesty where Loyalists are all in the same boat no matter what they are, Mongols or Angels or Revenants are literally just facing the horde of blood demons has an energy to it. Sigismund's cold, silent no-nonsense faith is empowering The Emperor. Every soldier holding his banner grows his cult, and all of Keeler's fanatics.
He's not a god of licentious and grandiose power like Slannesh, coming into the world from a mighty power ecstatic and giving their self control away, but a mix of the repetition of people facing the end but pulling attempts at empathy, 'fuck you' attacks and last stands. He's a god of pain and suffering because from the 'ascension' that's all he will feel. He is fed by the now active worship. I see it like this: the Imperium is feeding a concept of their god among the ashes, that even if it's all gone then He will still be there. Even struggling, we will continue. So he *will* be that, ironically whether he wants to or not.
ADB deliberately broke the idea of an empathetic Emperor or even a consistent one due to his glamour, but he suffers a karmic reversal of his tyranny. He will be the god of resistance, grim understanding, people from different places bringing back tribal loyalties and good mysticism (Warhawk shows this best with Terrans/Scars) whether he wants it or not. The Emperor took away dissent by commanding humanity, in turn the Imperium forces the biggest atheist to be standard, godhead and source of spiritual solace no matter what he thinks. The Emperor has as much say in his godhood as an Imperial Army conscript did in the Great Crusade.
I recently started Dark Imperium, and hearing about Roboute struggling with what he thought the Emperor was. Very glad this video came out, as it helps spur my own ideas of what the Emperor of mankind might truly be. I really enjoy listening to your videos, and its what originally got me into the 40k universe.
Tinfoilhat Theory: Grey Knights were created by Malcador to destroy the Emperor of Mankind after the ascension. After all he did say: "The greatest enemy of mankind".
That's like the Royal Rumble strategy. Or the strategy for winning the Survivor TV show. Team up with the strongest guy to take out every other threat, then take him out when he's worn out and doesn't expect it. Pretend to be the sidekick, then betray him at the last second.
It's also what the Yellow King, maybe Constantine Valdor, plans to do using enuncia and cloned blanks or people with the pariah gene.
I love how every perpetual the Emperor talked to about his grand plan for the galaxy came away from that conversation thinking, "he's crazy and he needs to be stopped".
I mean, I can kinda understand their ideology of it. But I disagree with them. Dictators rise and fall, usually the fall is because they’re too fast with their rise due to their short lifespan. But an immortal being actually could bring a new world order that doesn’t actually suck. The others saw just another dictator, and they’re not wrong in that sense. But I think they’re wrong in thinking that he needed to be stopped.
@@nikik5567 I disagree. The failure of dictatorships is not the mortality of the dictator, but the arrogance of a single person to believe that they alone have all the answers.
@@calebh373 ah but u see that arrogance is due to their own mortality. A dictator that had endless time would likely have advisors to delegate to, and who in turn provide another opinion. When one is on a finite schedule they don’t have time for that because they want to see their goals met before they die. But when death is abstract it becomes a lot easier to actually listen to ur underlings and thus get all of the perspectives and information u need to rule effectively while still achieving ur goals. Let’s take evil mustache man for example. I’m his early reign Germany had very little complaint about his actions, outside of the obvious groups that would…object. But later he stopped listening to his advisors cuz he cared more about seeing his own personal plans through before he died. Even before germanys defeat became apparent he started doing this. He became so obsessed with seeing his personal vision through before death that he ignored what his generals and advisors were telling him was the best course of action for Germany to actually win the war. Had he not been so worried about “oh I gotta do this before I die” then he could have slowed down, taken in the situation, and acted accordingly to win. Thank the gods he didn’t, but my point still stands. His mortality led him to wanting to achieve his own goals too early. This is the same with every dictator. They ignore their advisors about what’s best course in order to achieve personal goals. This inevitably leads to their own downfall. The Emperor wouldn’t have had such issues. Those other perpetuals could’ve influenced him enough to ensure that, yes he’d still rule absolutely, but his empire wouldn’t be a shit place for its subjects.
@@nikik5567 It doesn't matter how immortal someone is. People aren't perfect and make mistakes, which is why you shouldn't put absolute power in the hands of a single person.
I used to work an overnight job and let me tell you that your videos made it so much easier to work,
Crazy how a 1-2 hour video makes time fly,
Keep up the awesome job 👏
I kinda dig the idea of Emperor being an artificial human, a horror of bioengineering, creation that is supposed to be the apex of humanity yet lacks its own humanity. Hell, with addition of Voshtarr, we could assume that, perhaps, Malcador saw Voshtarr corrupt STC and saw this artificial human as a better option. At this point, I am almost convinced that this will lead to horrible consequences where Emperor, once reborn, will aim to "save humanity" by "uniting them all in himself" or something.
Wait a second. Mythical first murderer? Unbelievable power, hubris, and immortality? The Emperor is Caine from Vampire the Masquerade! It all makes sense now!
(Kidding, kidding, but seriously so happy to see the next part in this series.)
Ahaha, and malcador is the last remaining PC from the previous campaign, now storyteller controlled
I am actually doing this on my tabletop hehe.
What lore comes from the Votann will be critical to understanding the Emperor because they are the most direct link with the ancient past. Everything else, as you have said, is bathed in myth, rumor, and distortion. The Votann are *directly* of the dark age and ANY mention of anything related to the happenings on Terra would be groundbreaking, coming from a trusted archive that is believed to be that old, if not older.
An idea from a friend: At the end of the Heresy, it was Sanguinius who destroyed Horus. The ordeal drove him insane, instigating the Black Rage. In truth, it was The Emperor's mercy for his beloved winged son that was his own undoing. Killing Sanguinius out of mercy and being slain in the process.
It still hits the main beats of why the Emperor was beaten - he valued his Primarchs and wanted to avoid their deaths. This way is far more tragic, and suitably darkens the truth in a way that feels very... 40k.
My thought has always been that the reason that the Emperor says that he isn't a god is that he is leaving off the word "Yet". Humanity has such an effect on the warp that it seems sensible that if someone wanted to become a god (a well used trope) if they could ascend to the warp with the collection of all humanities focus of you as a god would empower you to/or above chaos god level (the chaos god of devotion). We can see the watered down version of this already with the feeding of the psykers and his ability to act like a god with champions etc.
This channel is the only channel I check regularly for updates... Keep up the great work, it is greatly appreciated.
If its any consolation, I know the feeling with other channels I check in on regularly
@@Luetin09 what channels might they be? Your prime content, so if they can hold your attention they are worth giving a watch I suspect. Your god emperor series got me into 40k btw so thank you for that!
it's insane how much you learn about philosophical concepts from 40k lore videos
A release while in my country everything is going south, even internet is not good waiting for 12h AM to watch it
Praise the emperor
From HAÏTI
I like the idea of the Emperor being the Last Man of Iron, one who managed to hide and win against the Humanity by becoming one of them and controling them.
There other man of iron remaining, namely UR-025.
I cannot convey the excitement and relief I get every time I see an upload and know I have something to listen and relisten to for a while 😩 your channel single handedly brought me into 40k, I don't have any other channels that measure up, not to say that other content creators are "worse", but I just have such expectations for your production that I can't get matched or exceeded as consistently as you anywhere else. You make the best stuff
I'm still super new to 40k fandom and find the lore terribly fascinating - thank you for doing this!
You raise a ton of very interesting possibilities regarding the Emperor. Speculative or no, each is infinitely more fitting than the shaman origin. For myself, the Emperor is an extremely captivating figure; not just his actions and what he represents in the setting, but the stark dichotomy between what he *was* and what he *is* now. It seems inevitable that a third state will exist: what he will become.
Thinking of The Emperor as a weapon of Malcador gives me a new perspective on “The Emperor Protects”. As if he’s a shield or guardian-type of construct made by The Sigillite. Thanks for another great video, mate- they always spark a period of inspiration and contemplation for me.
After watching this video, I have come up with my own theory about the Emperor. He was alive during those times he showed Ra, and was there at Babel. When Malcador met the Emperor (Neoth back then), Malcador helped Neoth become the Emperor.
Malcador did this by possibly using Elder tech to combine other Sigillite souls into Neoth. This allowed Neoth to grow into power and allowed him to lose his humanity.
My view is that at some point during the golden age the Emporer discovers that the STCs have traces of alien AI. In fact that alien code is from the Void Dragon. The cybernetic revolt is an attempt by the waking Void Dragon to take over humanity to consume them like the Necrontyr before them. Knowing that the mechanicus is in fact a priesthood of the Ctan, the Emporer works during M30 to get humanity back from the brink of being consumed by the Void Dragon to instead miss time the rise of Chaos.
Never heard this one before!
I like the first half, but the second part lost me. Great theory though!
@@Signal_Lost. To expound on it a bit, during the Golden Age the man who will be known as the Emperor discovers that hidden in the STC's and all the AI systems built by them including the Men of Iron are hidden instructions from an alien AI. While the Emperor doesnt know its the Void Dragon he traces the flaw back to the source Mars. The fall happens and mankind suffers the cybernetic revolt. The purpose being the Void Dragon wants to consume the souls of mankind like the Necrontyr to rebuild itself and assume its rightful place as the master of the galaxy; however, as we know the revolt fails.
After the cybernetic revolt is done and mankind starts to put itself back together the warp storms caused by the coming of Slaanesh happen. The resulting chaos gives the Emperor the opportunity to consolidate power on Terra. He knows he cant use the old STC technology because it is corrupted by the Void Dragon. So instead he opts for a lower tech approach that relies on using Men over Machines. The goal of the Great Crusade being the unification of mankind so that the Emperor can in turn fight what he knows is the real enemy, the Mechanicus and their Machine God. In this theory the machine spirit is in fact the dreaming mind of the Void Dragon taking an active hand. Unfortunately the Emperor made a mistake in the timing of when his tools would revolt. He planned to complete the Crusade, turn on all the forge worlds at once and smash the Mechanicus and destroy the source of the corruption, and in turn destroy the Astartes after.
I like the idea that perpetuals could be the men of gold. The true deaths of perpetuals being much less common, being much more desirable for the things in the warp.
i like that idea ,although im not sure if the perpetuals/men of gold even have souls,
maybe that is why he had to ask the chaos gods for information on how to make his sons because he couldn,t make 20 versions of himself but he could try to make the next best thing
genetically altered human sons.
a man of gold who wants to be an emperor, but why be an emperor if you can be a god?? much like how the eldar accidently created slaanesh , emps does it on purpose
the golden throne was made for that purpose, to offer thousands of souls a day like one giant divine powergenerator battery wich will explode when the terminus decree is activated and it will be the end of the emperor and the start of him being a god. a cold calculated machine like god, that was the only way that man of gold saw to defeat chaos/or kept its equilibrium
he needs all the psyker souls and humanity,s faith he can get before that time comes. and he is even already manifesting himself in legion of the damned and divine spirits who can even withstand the necron nulls.
he says he doesn,t know the exact future but he knows that every future outcome is not in favor of himself, if humanity dies he will starve off eventually something that goes against his own ruthless logic..
tyranids or necrons or orks or maybe even tau (given their hyperadvanced evolution) or whatever else the future holds its not looking good for the humans nor the eldar.
@@redsampler2017 I also wondered if the Selenar might have been involved with creating the men of stone, being genecrafters.
@@kikinick05 could very well be.
Good timing, I can sleep and absorb the information simultaneously thanks to the golden throne and the Luetin09 white noise style. Appeased both the algorithm God and the God of likes with a simple thumbs up and share. Tzeentch was pissed though as I had to skip my tithe of changing my bad attitude to chaos Gods.
Keep up the good work fella and, as always, stay safe!
I too love falling asleep to Luetin's lore videos. Theyre interesting enough to keep me entertained, but the way he speaks is chill enough that I can drift off when it's time. Perfect sleeping aid for this insomniac
@@TacSav253 Another vote from me for sleeping to Leutin09. Whether or not sleep learning is a thing I always get some rest. And then I can listen again when awake. Cheers Leutin!
Agreed, Great way to take in the information and fall asleep!
Sleep gang!
Likes for the Like God! Subscribers for the Subscriber Throne!
I like to think that Malcador was so set on safekeeping the "human spirit" that he and parts of his order would do anything to guide humanity, even subjugate and commit terrible acts all in the name of the greater good. Eventually he saw the potential and the raw, untapped power in the Warlord that all other Perpetuals either tried to stop or steered well clear of. The absolute hubris and blind ambition of this Warlord could be shaped and given purpose, he could be turned into an avatar of humanity, an infallible Emperor, the Master of Mankind... of course guided by the righteous hand of Malcador.
But not even Malcador could predict just how terrible the Emperor would become when focused down a single path and steering towards a singular goal, and eventually he lost control of his vision of what the Emperor would be for humanity; every plan and project tainted and taken to extremes by the weapons-grade hubris that the Emperor possessed. In the end it didn't matter if Malcador guided and mentored him, it didn't matter if Malcador helped him grow his powers and utilizing his powers of foresight to set humanity on the path to ascendancy.
Eventhough clad in splendid gold, commanding an army of geneforged, unwavering warriors, with demi-god sons conquering the galaxy for him; he was never the Emperor, he stayed the tyrranical Warlord. Malcador always saw that denying that the Emperor was a god wouldn't changed the fact that he in reality was as close to one you could come and that the day the Emperor would realize this himself and throw away his thinly veiled humanity and truly grasp his divinity would be the end of all.
So Malcador made sure that he had a plan hidden even from the Emperor, a chain of events that would eventually lead to the death of the Emperor and the Imperium they had tried to build. If he couldn't control the Emperor, he would still make use of his raw powers, the secret purpose of the Golden Throne would be utilized for the good of all...
So the seeds of heresy was sown, and in the dark future of the 41st millenium the fruits we reap from that tree is only war.
If his story is close to what is claimed, we could see a similar situation with other fictional immortals, during the golden age he simply withdrew in on himself. Perhaps he settled on a distant world far away from it all, with his more aesthetic pursuits and only irregular contact with humanity. He might have gotten so detached that the machine war caught him unprepared, stranded and having to salvage a ship together millenia after he had last done anything like it
I think a better way of conceptualizing the “oldness” of warp entities is though the lens of size rather than age. We as 3rd dimensional beings, view time very linearly, however, when seen as an additional dimension it is more a metric of how much room an entity take up in that axis.
If the emperor is a gestalt of previous perpetuals, it could have a strong epigenetic memory.
I mean he is basically a copy of the emperor of Dune.
It's conceivable that in creating him memories weren't necessary but inevitable.
When you create an inevitable, it's created forward and backward in time, because something something the warp works in mysterious ways.
I also like to think that the Emperor made a deal with the Men of Iron. The Golden age was AI's attempt at a Utopia. The AI actually lost control of itself.
It just took a lot of attrition to convince the computer that the only winning move was not to play. AIs were reduced to machine spirits. The number of sentient machines is kept to as small a number as possible, often disguised as simple technology. The extra accurate laz-rifle has it's own motivation in a plan lasting centuries, but only just enough to accomplish its goals.
I'm pretty sure there is an STC running The Golden Throne. Inside it is the gestalt of the Men of Iron. Directly Networked to the Emperor. Previously psychically, now physically and psychically.
Only by combining with the AI, could intelligence be controlled. Both man and machine. Only together was there the chance of overcoming chaos, separately both were doomed.
Being machines already AI was easier to change.
That's also why stc's that supposedly are making things to a high-tech standard, instead of spitting out Gothic terror machines. STC plans themselves have built-in adaptations. Something you would need at least one GAI for.
Also explains how the Bane Blade could be a scout vehicle. It was originally a tracked RV for hostile environments. All smooth and shiny and bubble canopy and stuff. Since it was just the most convenient chassis, it was adapted from a "scout" vehicle. Probably even having its name changed. All influenced by the Emperor's subconscious.
Just some random ideas I like.
I painted minis back in the 80s and I've only recently gotten back into Warhammer, currently reading the HH.
This section of the story The Lightning Tower intrigues me:
"Would you tear them all down?“
Dorn turned at the sound of the voice. For a moment, it had sounded like the
soft growl of his father.
But it was just a man, a cloaked and cowled man scarcely half Dorn's height.
His robes were those of a simple palace administrator.
"What did you say?“ asked Dorn.
The man walked out into the circle of the Investiary to face Dorn. He greeted
him with the old salute of Unity rather than the sign of the aquila. "You were
staring at the statues of your kin,“ he observed. "I asked… would you tear them
all down?“
"The statues or my kin, Sigillite?“ Dorn replied.
There is a conflation here of Malcador and The Emperor.
The best channel for Warhammer content by far. The level of detail that goes into these videos and the way that you approach it Luetin is something really special. I hope you aren't overdoing it. We can't lose you in these dark times.
29:35 I do like the idea that Emps went to Morloch to empower the Primarchs. Over and over again, the Primarchs cheat death and almost seem to bend fate in order accomplish their goals. This first stuck out to me in the HH book 'Betrayer' when Lorgar is wrapped up in listening to the song of the warp while trying to make Angron ascend. Then suddenly its like the record player breaks and the song is lost when he sees Guilliman is practically on top of him. He's confused because he never saw Guilliman on the planet in his foresight. But Guilliman seems to defy fate itself. It also plays into idea that only a Primarch can kill another Primarch. Only their own fate bending power can let them kill another Primarch. Fulgrim killing Ferrus, Horus killing Sanguinius and Emps killing Horus through sheer psychic will. You could even argue that Emps isn't able to "Kill" Horus, he has to instead delete him from existence as though he never was.
Not sure if this is related, but the idea of the Emperor being the first murderer reminded me of Sigmar and, how as a young man, was infuriated at his close friend Wolfgart for beating him in a sparring match. He then in a fit of rage struck Wolfgart with his warhammer while his back was turned. Of course, he only broke his arm, and Sigmar immediately saw through his cloud of anger and dropped his warhammer, but it seemed vaguely familiar when you brought up the first murderer theory.
And how Paul (in Dune) killed Jamis (thanks for the correction) who, in one timeline, was his friend and taught him the Freemen ways, but instead is killed in a duel in the first meet.
It may sound strange but the more I learn about Dune, especially Paul and double it for Leto II, the more I feel I have a grasp on the Emperor. I feel like the reason we don't get a lot of details about him is because of how much of it is lifted from the Dune series in the early days before they cared about IP law.
@@Badartist888 killed Jamis...
@@Badartist888 Jamis
No doubt sci-fi and especially 40k were influenced by Herbert (Dune) and Asimov (Foundation) like all fantasy was influenced by Tolkien. In my head-canon the forgotten ages of technology were basically Foundation, maybe collapsing into Dune, then slowly rebuilt by an amoral god-emperor out of touch with humanity and focused on a mysterious goal of hiding humans from powerful entities.
...which (spoilers) is what Leto II does.
I just bought my first codex and figures for the tabletop a few days ago thanks to the passion you have in no small part grown in me over the last year. Thank you for your dedication.
In some of my darkest times your videos come along to make me forget this terrible world and make it look a bit better in contrast to the 40k universe.
I feel like multiple versions of the Emperors story could all be true. He could have been the strongest perpetual, and because of this was used for experiments during the dark age of technology to become a weapon. If this was only done AFTER the men of iron had already attacked, in a desperate attempt to stop them, then he may simply have been too late and unable to prevent humanity's downfall. He decides to take control of humanity afterwards, perhaps fumbles at it a bit and meets Malkador who offers him the guidance he needed to do the job effectively. And the rest is history.
Maybe the Emperor is a kind of pseudo-'pataphysical being. Perhaps when he awakened to his full power on ancient Terra, he gained some insight into the weird paradoxical nature of the eternalist timeline of the warp, which allowed him a limited ability to scry that timeline. It would basically make him a weaker version of the chaos gods, having a part of his mind able to messily see all of time, but no ability to say, transpose demons into reality in ways that break continuity. That could explain his extreme degree of foresight, and it would put him in the bizarre category of characters that contains weirdos like Talos of Atmora from TES.
"Pataphysical being"?🤔
Sounds like someone had their SCP flakes this morning.....😄
The Emperor reminds me a bit of Doctor Manhattan. An aberration that lives simultaneously across probable time, whose knowledge of his outcomes ends with The Cataclysm. In the case of Doctor Manhattan, this gives him access to a new existence without foreknowledge. For the Emperor, it ends with entombment in the Golden Throne.
I always like to think the lost Primarchs where Science types. And one was a Harri Selden type who saw all this shit coming. An Isaac Asimov character would totally be the type to be purged form memory in 40k.
I like to think Sigmar beat him in a wrestling match and Big E thought “oh shit can’t have that” and banished him to a pocket dimension. And the whole thing is so heretical that even GW denies it.
I like the theory that the two Primarchs were able to see the true emperor.
One disappeared investigating the Necron anomaly at the edge of the Galaxy.
He was a quiet, stoic and gruff individual, who took risks, like conquering a planet with VERY few Astartes.
But thats literally all we know
28:35 Definitely an idea worthy of additional thought regarding the Emperor’s origin.
29:05 Particularly because of this.
I mean, hello, we have the tools right here.
Motive, means, opportunity all in one place.
Not embracing this possibility is like finding a set of keys directly outside of a key-maker’s shop and then wondering, “Where did these keys come from?”
Theory: The Emperor is the last of the Old Ones. This explains his obsession of creating new forms of humans and ushering in the next level of superhuman whether it is a thunderwarrior, space marine, primarch, and now the primaris. This explains how he was able to trap a Void Dragon since he fought them during the War in Heaven. This explains how he can make a webway since the Old Ones taught the eldar how to make them. The Old Ones were able to manipulate the warp on a galactic scale during the war in heaven. After the Great Rift opened, this was a signal to the Silent King that one last Old One remained and initiated his return.
Sure
But thry would make the Necrons look at him VERY differently
Szarekh has even spoken of the Emperor with Dante.... Trayzn has spoken of him etc.
Im pretty sure they would all B-Line for Terra to kill their most hated enemy
Or, if he was an Old One, that would be justification to use the Celstial Orrery.
Or perhaps was sitting on his hands during the golden age because humanity had "won." Strong, united, and galaxy wide. Then the Men of Iron destroyed it all and the Age of Strife happened so the Emperor decided he had to become more forceful at that time. For me, I think the Emperor was created in humanity's ancient past by a dying old one, who foresaw humanity as the galaxy's last great hope.
Head a really tough day, now coming home to see Luetin pumping out another one of these absolute grenades. Thanks for making youtube 40k still worthwhile with your content.
Blessings and greets.
“Mentally engorging” is a perfectly uncomfortable phrase for discussing 40k lore! Great work as always!!
Brill vid as always Luetin. I know the shaman theory is controversial, but I feel that one of the main properties of the 40k lore is "sacrifice", be it the ones we take upon ourselves or the ones we force upon others. I like the idea that the shamans sacrificed themselves as a final gift to humanity to create the Emperor, but not all of them died. Some were assigned to be the sigilites, an order dedicated to finding psykers in the world, and later the galaxy, and bringing them to the Emperor to be sacrificed and empower him, similar to how Malacador himself does just before the Emperor is interned on the golden throne, and that thousands of psykers do daily to sustain the Emperor's power.
I feel like this explains why there's no/very few psykers in humanity's history, up until the golden age when things became too big to manage and things like navigators and astropaths were discovered and utilised.
I also believe the opening of the eye of terror was the catalyst for the Emperor to begin his plans. A new chaos god birthed in the immaterium? The warring amongst themselves as Slaanesh vied to establish control of her new realm, the original 3 warred to prevent the upstart's power from getting out of control, and the three taking advantage to backstab each other, would surely have been a great distraction.
Hence "this war began before we were ready" from Malcador. The gods being distracted with each other was a perfect opportunity for the Emperor to step out into the galaxy and show his hand, even though they may not have properly juiced up the Emperor. I feel like this also neatly explains the seeming rush the Emperor shows during the great crusade. They had to complete their goals before the gods were able to turn back properly to the material realm.
Holy Heresy Batgirl! :O
Sounds to me like calling the Emperor a weapon left out of its box, running rampant, is to call him a robot or, at least, an artificial life - created, in any case.
I like the Relic gone rogue theory. I’ve often wondered, couldn’t the Golden Throne be an STC itself. Even the emperor doesn’t seem to know how it came to be, fully. How bout they are one and the same or two parts of the same production. That by linking with the throne, HE can access the warp in such a way as to ascend into Godhood. That HE doesn’t want AI development in fear of what it can become….competition. What if HE is an STC along with the Throne and that combining the two allows a “machine” to become a real living esoteric God.
It’s not like any STC we see is some 3d printer like they are talked about. Consider the Spirit of Eternity or the Castigator Titan. Just like the Spirit needed it’s ‘bond mate’ what if the Emperor need the Throne and Malcidor helped pull it all together .
I sort of think that the emperor may be a perpetual. Those periods in human history where he definitely WOULD have been meddling and interacting but didn’t, I sort of wonder if he was maybe just dead.
Maybe the reason he hasn’t come back yet is because his soul is still tethered to the Golden Throne and thus prevented from being reborn in the natural cycle. Maybe the Men of Iron were his mistake to begin with and he was among the first to die. As the instigator and victim of such an event, it makes sense that he’d be so against AI.
I think the first murder was the death of the Emperors father by his uncle. The Emperord first kill was giving his uncle a heart attack in revenge. Likely also the first revenge.
I've always had a theory that he's something of a synthetic or partially synthetic life form. Maybe he was an ordinary man but with the tech golden age humans had, he may have been enhanced in such a way that made him an immortal warrior like the men of gold. I also thought maybe at the end of the war with the A.I. that maybe they "infected" him as a final revenge since they could see he or the others may have taken over humanity. This would create the future we see now where the emperor's vision of awfulness has come to fruition and maybe it was the men of iron's design. A lot more I could write about that but way too tired.
My body is always ready for some heresy!
Heresy detected
Oh, and don't forget that the Emperor seems to have some degree of mastery over "Enochian", the ability to alter reality using some fundamental "language code" underlying reality. That was the point of the Tower incident he had with Ollanius in ancient times. He could be a God just being a perpetual and psyker, then gaining "Enochian" abilities.
EDIT: to clarify, in the books, "Enochian" is the language of Baal Secundus, "Enuncia" is the language of reality manipulation; in real-world occult circles, "Enochian" is referred to by Crowley and others as being equivalent to "enuncia" in 40k lore.
I’m commenting because this man deserves community interaction. Incredible work as always, and your videos always are a must watch as soon as they pop up.
RE - The Emperor was created. Be very interesting if Malcador was actually the original "Perfect Human", the one who had been brought in to being by the conclave of the Shamans and in the 27th Millennium, Malcador (now aged due to the effect of Slannesh's birth on the Immaterium and being 35,000 years old), cloned himself and made a few tweaks, resulting in the creation of the Emperor and Mally's willingness to do anything for him.
Pandora was not trapped in the box, the box contained the evils of the world. She opened it and they escaped
An often forgotten addition, it also contained hope!
Okay, the lore discussion is amazing as always, but can we please acknowledge how AWESOME that transition at 23:40 - 23:46 is?
He is definitely a Man of Gold. The pinnacle of human achievement. But after seeing the death caused by the Men of Iron and the folly of the man of Stone he realized his kind should not exist. He removed every other Man of Gold and decided he would have to lead humanity towards a path that would never lead to AI again. Maybe Malcador was more involved or not idk.
Okay, NOW I have an Idea-
The Emperor being a powerful perpetual & psyker in the ancient past, but then 'Uplifted' by Dark Age of Tech- Tech, actually fits perfectly with being the Martian Omnissiah. It also explains why he would take a 'Hands Off' approach to the Mechanicum.
I swear everytime I'm in the mood to look up 40k lore you make a new video. Thanks, you're the best in the business in my opinion.
I'm building a Gladiator and a squad of hellblasters while listening to this.
Nice! I'm making Genestealer cults.....but I didn't say that. >_>
You, sir, are THE reason I became interested in the Grim Dark. Currently reading through the Horus Heresy, and without having seen your videos first, I would have been completely lost trying to figure out the "continuity". Well done and thank you!
I've always thought that in the case of the Emperor the line between him being a super charged psyker and an actual god was indistinguishable because he is/was so far beyond any human, even Malcador.
So I have a good theory for you and I hope as your videos inspired it, I will short hand it but I call it
The emporer, puppet of malcador
Consider the following, when we hear tales in lore about the sigulits they are always altruistic and pure, using powers for good but let's look at things we know (from characters perspective)
1) the sigulit edited history (as he said to horus)
2) the sigulits did something terrible resulting in a massive loss of life (what he referred to as nessasary loss of life)
3) the emporer and the sigulit are surprisingly close to each other (but outside of being a powerful psycher the emporer should have no need of a friend really)
So my theory flipped a few things on its head
Act one) the death of the sigulits isn't as altruistic as shown (explaining both their power and why they are gone)
I propose that the sigulits first gained their powers by noticing that people that died in their worship gave them power, they were psychic humans who got stronger the more people died for them... however they argued about how best to rule starting wars (ironically getting stronger and stronger) it was then our sigulit noticed on the death of other sigulits he gained the power boost... essentially spurring a war to decide humanities fate of worshipping these gods into a power battery war (not dissimilar to the eldar use of souls)
The war wittles down the number till one powerful sigulit remains, malcador but what to do, hes all powerful but learned a valuable lesson,He has learned if humanity has a religion there will always be those that oppose it, he creates the emporer not as a God but to play the role of the scientist, claiming there is no God but creating a reverse effect that people worship him without creating doubters as he is his worst doubter, the emporer has no soul he is a puppet that is being pulled by malcador this is why when he drops the vale people lose hope, there is nothing there.... only emptiness
Act two) encounter with choas
The puppet and his master now go around uniting humanity, it is important that the edicts come from the emporer as this àllows people to worship him without worshiping him giving power to malcador through his puppet and battery, while they unite humanity he discovers the chaos gods beings stronger than him and could definitely make things difficult BUT THIS IS THE GENIUS OF HIS PLAN by using the emporer as a puppet he goes to the realm of chaos he wants their power and offers his soul in exchange for this power, the choas gods happily accept because they could rule humanity through the soul of the emporer BUT ITS THE FINE PRINT HERE THE EMPORER HAS NO SOUL AND THATS WHAT THEY WERE OFFERED malcador has just stolen fire from the gods and they are pissed but can do nothing because it was them that made a deal for nothing, the emporer puppet goes on to create the primarks as his generals and warriors to help him if the gods come after him (remember lion el Johnson was created to be immune to chaos he did so because if he only had one son then he needed him to fight chaos off) they created the herasy to take out the primarks after everything was done as the puppet was always clear that the rule should go to man, once the primarks were dead malcador would park the puppet on the throne and rule "for him" being his word and will, he would continue to get souls because the emporers chair had collection built into it so he could gain them and if people wised up the sigulit would simply pull the energy into him and then start again
Act 3 the hiccups in the plan) so three problems happened, 1 lorgar being a big twat started worshipping the emporer with his legion openly, if he has a religion there will be another to oppose it and as such another war and he wanted to unite humanity against the aliens and chaos not have civil wars, so he smacks lorgar down hoping that his display would get him in line but that co incides with problem 2 the chaos gods figure out that the emporer can only have the council of men rule humanity if all the space marines are dead the God puppet doesn't have that power alone and they discover the civil war plot.... they take 9 of the legions and they go to war giving the emporer what he wanted but powering up his opponents, the sigulite has the most pressing problem... he is human and is growing old he might die before his plan is complete but he has a wonderfully perfect body he can take, the emporer of man and then sitting magnus on the throne (which is why they both had such a strong connection to magnus AND offered him numerous times to turn back he was the back up battery they needed) but he went to the enemy so malcador vows to fix things after the herasy
Act 4) conclusion and supporting evidence - the emporer puppet takes the field he was designed for war but it came at a bad time the web way was vulnerable malcador is stretched thin, he sends his puppet to get horus head but in doing so he must sit the throne himself (all good he can transfer over to the emporer) but he gets wrecked in the fight he's stuck on the edge of eternity with two crippled bodies he transfers his power all into the crippled emporer (it has the best chance of survival) and sits the throne assuming the role of a God for the wars to come
My supporting evidence outside of it all fitting is that gulliman says his father has changed, it would be because it was no longer a puppet that sat before him but something real with a soul
I hope you like it and if you do make a video expanding it just a shout out is needed
i personally have always thought that the Emperor was Malice. the idea i had was that the 5 chaos gods decided to send one of their own into the physical world to prepare the 'perfect' race that could raise them all up higher, enter here humans. so they pick a human who has the greatest psychic power and help malice possess him so that he may go on to prepare humans. the Emperor then begins his takeover, but spreads the word that there are no gods. in an effort to starve the 4 left in the warp. the ultimate backstab intended to leave him the winner of the Great Game. the 4 chaos gods in the warp then meddle with the creation of the primarchs and contaminate some of them. once the Emperor has found all the missing sons he goes back to terra. he has set things up to bring about the heresy in the idea that he will be able to kill off the contaminated primarchs and to set up the golden throne for Magnus. the throne once completed will block the daemons from the warp and serving to be the final plug to starve the chaos gods while the Emperor remains in the physical world. but then the heresy kicks off sooner than expected and Magnus turns traitor and the Emperor ends up on an unfinished throne. trapped in a body forced to stay alive. preventing him from properly dying and being reborn.
so what if Malcador is instead Malice and he created the Emperor to be his personal herald? like his own Epidemius, his own greater daemon. the primarchs were created to be daemon princes. so the visions the Emperor shows people are from Malcador, but he really believes they are his memories.
The Emperor doesn’t need an stc machine because he has one, but it creates the components that make men/xenos that will do what he needs.
I think that the emperor can see far into the future but some times he is blindsided by his ability. The end of the golden age,
The death of Malcador, himself getting stuck on the golden throne.
I think the emperor does not react well to unexpected situations and generally makes poor choices when does have too.
I think a good way of understanding the Emperor is to understand the God-Emperor from Dune, Leto II with aspects of Paul (I feel like the Emperor was based on Paul then the writer read God-Emperor of Dune and the later books and he got his power up).
I’ve been listening for years and I just wanted to say, in my mind you are synonymous with 40k. No one does it better.
Maybe a character should ask one of the surviving AI's, let's say in a STC or one of Mars' ancient ships, about the Emperor. My two cents are on answers given in rage and anger.
Well, according to the lore, the AI would have no info on him. He wasn’t really making waves in the golden age, officially at least. Molech’s AI might have something if it’s still around somewhere, but a random AI or stc prolly wouldn’t have any info.
Outside the box - I'd love to hear speculation/discussion on how Tyrranids could be eradicated. Ships breaching drives to drag them into the Warp in an imperium wide effort?
The servitor thing is actually a scary thought when it comes to perpetuals... Have we seen one being made into a servitor? A never dying body but with all thought taken from them. Never dying but never able to think or act for themselves. It'd be the ultimate way to stop a perpetual.
Depends, couldn't they just regenerate the parts that had been removed?
@@stormjet814 if it's replaced with metal that itself could be a slow and painful process. Also I think they only regenerate on death rather than just any injuries
@1nsan1ty that's the horror of the servitor. You are somewhere deep down inside, still there and very much alive.
I personally really like the idea that the Emperor is a god and either always has been, or somehow became one, so more speculation on that is always great (on that note, I really need to go back and re-watch your entire Emperor series again). I'd also like to see more speculation on just what exactly the Emperor's minions are as well. More delving into what people like the Living Saints (Celestine, etc.) and the Legion of the Damned really are, their origins. Are they really, for lack of a better term, "Imperial Demons" or are they something else entirely?
I love this series. I listen to it in full once a quarter and the various pieces everytime I'm driving long enough to finish an episode. Thanks
You and major kill are both the best at your specific styles of lore telling.
It's like come from a class and talk to a friend about the subject
The first murder makes me think of the Biblical Cain which in some interpretations was cursed with immortality and misfortune would follow him everywhere he went. In 40k maybe that story was based on truth. He'd gain great knowledge despite this and over time might seek to come out as the Emperor. Plays into the idea from your previous video that terrible things keep happening around the Emperor even despite what his intentions may be.
I was thinking the same and as he killed is brother, Khorne was born. Idk maybe I'm just stoned haha
Considering the Roman Catholic ascetic of the Imperium that's almost certainly the case..
it's based on truth in the real world too
My thoughts were much the same, though I had something to add. In a 40k context, the First Murder reminds me of the Eldar war god Khaela Mensha Khaine, who, if you didn't catch the reference in the name *Khaine,* was said to commit the first murder among the Eldar.
I actually love the idea that the Emperor might genuinely believe the origin of the shamen might have memories and whatnot streaching all these lives. Hell they might BE actual lives and memories that have all been condensed into him Now at the behest of Melchador right as humanity fell. This explains both Emps's hubris and his leaning on Supermen Transhumans as saviors, and the fact that he does not have any personal backups that you'd think he would have made from the ages past if for no other reason than having that personal repository.
Emps being birthed, possibly from a collection of perpetuals and other psychers solves a lot of these plothole issues since Emps would have been birthed outright believing he was the messiah and the hope. So his arrogance was through the roof. So he lacks the wisdom you'd think someone who hails from the begining of the age of agriculture if not before.
I think GW isn't going to go with that because it's... TOO good and makes too much sense and one of the halmarks of the setting is just how braindead STUPID everything is.
So. Kudos for the theory. Even if it isn't what is, I love it for the sake of solving a LOT of the problems that exist with the Emperor.
Edit: To further expand on this. The Sigilites saw the fall, but lacked the wherewithal to get a STC. They saw other orders and cabals making transhuman Champions and 'well. Why don't we.... except all their champions lack something, that ineffable connection to the sea of souls. Experiance. Knowledge. They're hulking brutes that might be born geniuses but are very clearly pawns.' And then severla of their ownComingle their essences with other stock. Maybe not all of it willingly given. Maybe a few of those transhuman superbeing monsters were also sacraficed on the alter of generating something as potent as the Emperor. Then Melchador was appointedthe Emperor's minder. Someone who would be there obstinently as an advisor. But also to ensure their narritive of the Emperor having ambition and history BEFORE meeting the sigilites takes hold. that way he has this mythological origin to those he encounters rather than 'oh joy another group of techno barbarians whipped up a messiah in the ez bake oven.'
As for him refrencing a past? Maybe it's those past lives. Other perpetuals that knew him refrencing those lives because from their perspective. Emps is the same being. Just a whole BUNCH of beings put into one container. Especially the morep sychicly aware ones would feel his essence as beign both familair yet more grand. Also part of it could just be the Emperor's own psyche trying to craft a past for itself, much like blade-runenr replicants. Using that storehouse of memories and experiance to craft a sense of self and declare that this is so as much for his own mental welbeing as anyone else or propaganda's sake.
Maybe that's the real reason the Thunder Warriors were put down. They were his army, yes, but they also to a man knew the secret the Emperor could NEVER allow to get out. Melchador was his confidant, his companion, and almost likea father. The troops? Get one drunk enough and they'll talk. Sew DOUBT in the masses, even if the thunder warriors themsleves were absolutely loyal.
Also. The space marines themsleves aren't so grand. Maybe that's for stability and applying the templates to a wider range of humans, but maybe... just maybe that was to prevent an uprising. take Chaos out of the picture and the Legions would have been counter-able by the rank and file,. Oh sure it'd be BLOODY, but it'd be Doable.
Having thunder warrior Legions? they'dh ave scythed through anything near unopposed.
When Ole Perrson was the Emperor's Warmaster, he ran his sword through the Emperor when he realized the Emperor was planning to use the enuncia tower for his own ends, instead of destroying it. So he was already making secret plans that went against what he said he wanted to do. Like, he was already being hypocritical about his quest for power.
My theory on the Emperor's origin was that long ago, he took a job as a Jesus impersonator, but then things got way out of hand.
Great video, as always!
Awesome video! I find The Emperor to be supremely interesting and these theories only made it more so! The Sigilite construction theory also took me down the path in my mind, where The Emperor might have existed long before as a perpetual and a psyker, but upon encountering the Sigilites they MADE him into what he is now. It would be like a human child being turned into a Astartes, they basically cranked up his power completely off the scale (and perhaps they even put him throughan indoctrination program? Speculating purely). That would also fit with Malcador at one point remarking on his own hand in making the Emperor so powerful.
I’m convinced the Emperor is a pinnacle AI from the dark age who fought against man and after losing is playing a longer game. His deal with chaos was for a ‘soul’ / warp power
I like both the idea that the emperor is something other than human (be it a warp entity or a weapon) or a strong psyker that is full of himself playing god in the human empire and rotting it from the inside out.
This guy speaks so much heresy in such a short time you literally expect to hear a loud bang on the door with "Inquisition, open up!" from the background, from around 10 minutes onward...
Any video of yours that goes up is an immediate must watch. Love how seriously you take these things, and how deep your vids get. Thanks for another amazing time :D
I reckon the Emperor could be the first AI psyker, this is why he's a perpetual but not in the sense of Vulkan and John who die and come back to life.
Your charm and insight are forever fueling my love for this lore. You are the best 40K lore-master on youtube, in my humble opinion.
Videos like this are why I enjoy lore so much, especially the lengthy ones. Thanks for the hard work that must have gone into your channel, I love hearing more about the dark universe of warhammer.