The 2016 couple would be the 3.8l version, with about 75 more horsepower than the 2.0t model. It would not merely be faster in the new tests, but _way_ faster. I wonder if that would sway any ratings. Down-side? A turbo is fun just for being a turbo, so. . . .
Driven all three. Different strengths and weaknesses. I have a lowered, stiffened miata with some engine tuning and love it. Can see the appeal of the BRZ, too. Genesis, less tossable.
Problem of the youtube comment section : too much "drivers" are driving their car on Forza Motorsport and Gran Turismo. If it's about real driving, believe the pros, this BRZ is an astonishing car that completely make you enjoy driving. After that, my last comment is : "Haters gonna hate !"
Tampa Boy nah that's just the 10 series fr-s which comes only in a unique silver to that trim they call ignition, and adds about 4 grand onto the price tag
I think that's why they went with Toyota Prius tires, to make it easier to get loose and funner to push to the limits. You definitely are right about the driving skill it takes to hold a drift. I started out in an '89 Subaru GL. Had it in 4wd all the time with no front axles. The handbrake works the FRONT wheels too. That thing would do some MASSIVE burnouts in 4wd low. It took quite some time and many near accidents to hold a drift.
After my own experiences and opinion... Miata - too impractical and kinda ga... feminine BRZ - Horrible interior, after a while it's an eyesore for anyone but a pure enthusiast. And Lets face it...Needs... more.. power.. Genesis Coupe - The winner. Modern luxury interior. Top notch imo. Get a manual 2013+ V6 track used with low miles for 25kish and you have a beastly fast sports car that does everything well enough for the street. The BRZ might be more fun to drive, but it does 0-60 2 SECONDS slower than the genesis V6.... both of them will bring the same size smile to the driver. The way the car looks isn't as nice as it could be, but it's fair enough. I give the BRZ the win for looks. That's where i am now, trying to find that perfect used genesis. I'm not buying brand new one for 36k.
MultiKalwin lol korean shit isn't suppose to be even on the list. If miata is too gay for u, mb lotus elan, mg mgb, alfa romeo duetto, fiat 124 etc. are gayish too? but looking at ur choice i think that u just don't comprehend sporty cars.
GURken sorry I'm not rich... or stupid. For me to buy any of those cars listed while living in Wisconsin and poor would be... stupid... but also standing 6 foot 5" I dont fit in the miata. Thanks for your stupid opinion.
GURken No capitalization at the beginning of your sentences, writing u instead of the proper form of you and ur instead of your......yeah, I stopped listening a long time back.
Great job! First comparo I've seen of these three cars! This is the comparo that everyone has been wanting to see since the release of the BRZ/FR-S and the update to the Genesis Coupe!
Haha. I love how much hate there is for the FRS/BRZ in EVERY youtube comments section where the FRS wins a head to head. So many people love driving it, and idiots get on here complaining because it doesn't have the best numbers, therefore all these professional car enthusiasts are mistaken, and joe shmo clearly knows what's best. lol. Take the FRS for a test drive, it's a blast.
It's a miata from subaru. Get your own ideas toyota. Nothing special about it other than Subaru offered their miata with more horspower like everyone has been begging from Mazda.
GeForce GT I was pointing out that it is a minimalist sports car like the miata, I understand that there are inherent differences between the two. The basic principle behind them however, is the same: a lightweight rwd car that doesn't need a ton of horsepower to be fun. I have no issue with subaru or their boxer engines, I do hate toyota on the other hand because they don't design anything in house that is worth a damn
DoomsdayMelody91 The idea of a lightweight minimalist sports car has been around since way before the Miata... I love all three of these cars, but the BRZ is obviously the better driver's car... It's a coupe and has the best handling of the three, enough said.
DoomsdayMelody91 "mita from subaru" really! i mean really! where are you getting that from. What does MX-5 have: subaru's legendary limited split differential, or lowest center of gravity ever on any production car under 40K. or the legendary boxer engine that places itself almost on ground?
this is pretty much what I expected from the review. Its hard to compare the three because they were designed to be different animals from the beginning. The Genesis Coupe will never will a comparison between the BR-Z because its based on value. I can tell you this, for everyday driving you will be a fool to not take the genesis, unless you got 26K to blow on a Sunday/ track car. All good cars, but I think this comparison just convinced me to get the 2013 3.8 R-SPEC. Thanks R&T!
Well I agree that the Focus itself might be, but the ST trim and the Mazdaspeed trim weren't going in that direction. Same with the Si trim. At least two of those models have a hybrid trim, those are the cars designed as the economy cars. The performance trims were designed as just that. You said the Focus st was built as an economy car which is wrong, the Focus was built as the economy car, the ST trim was built as a performance version of that car.
I see people talking about Hyundai being the best here?... U guys know nothing of automotive, car companies now can bend n mold metal n plastic any way they like but not everyone can do what Subaru/Toyota did with this car I own a lexus is-f which just slaps the Hyundai but my fr-s is still more fun to sit behind the wheel..... So shhhhh brz/frs is a instant classic automobile for a reason
And what exactly did Subaru/Toyota do that's so special? Are the ToyoBaru twins fantastic cars? Yes but I attribute that more to finding the correct balance for what they wanted. Mazda and Hyundai had something different in mind when they designed their cars. I'd say Mazda wanted a more barebones setup while Hyundai wanted more luxury.
$22,200 305 hp V6 Mustang vs $24,250 274 hp Genesis Coupe 2.0T. $30,300 420 hp Mustang GT vs $28,750 348 hp Genesis Coupe 3.8. And the Genesis Coupe isn't available with a V8! The Mustang also is available as a convertible, the 444 hp Boss 302, and the 662 hp GT500!
Also if you're like me and hate soft-tops, they make a hard-top version. It adds weight, but cuts road noise, and the Miata is already a really light car.
Why? The 2.0T is much closer in price. These comparisions need to be done based on price. That's why you have to pit the 3.8 Genesis against the 370z and Mustang GT 5.0. I know you may not like the matchups there, but the price is right.
not really. A lot of manufacturers flat out don't offer a stick shift, all of the European manufacturers have gone to paddle shifts, more cars are becoming available in automatic only, etc. It's still better to drive a manual (IMO), but its completely viable to drive an automatic.
The Focus ST starts at around $24.7k, same base price as the FR-S. The ST is bigger, has 250 hp and 263 ft lbs from a turbo, recaro seats and is already been sold in Europe for years so it has already proven itself. Comparing these two is a no brainer, ST is a better choice. If you want an FR-S/BR-Z wait for the turbo version.
Yes, they are still using a live rear axle. The thing is, you'd barely know it by driving the car. My last car was a 350z, and this Mustang handles damn near as well. I would never have believed it until I drove it. I kind of like having a solid axle in a muscle/pony car.. it's like having the last of a breed.
what does it having a rotary have to do with anything? It produces very similar performance to the BRZ and Genesis Coupe (the BRZ specifically). Its also a coupe, lightweight and well balanced like the genesis and BRZ. The ONLY reason its not being compared here is because its no longer manufactured.
I drove the GT86 last weekend here in germany. Awesome car for people, who would like to have a sports car, but can't afford a Ferrari oder Lamborghini. I feel thankful to Toyota and Subaru for developing this kind of Coupe with low weight and balanced power... 200 Hp is rly enough if you don't want to go for laptimes on the Nordschleife ... even the gas consumption is ok if you drive in town.
I get the need for speed, but let's be honest. When are you going to exceed 139mph on the street? I think the beautiful handling and smooth shifting are worth it. Also, you can get the engine over 200hp with a supercharger that only adds 25lbs. You might like the Honda S2000, but you'll have to get it used because they stopped production in '09.
Excellent review, driving experience is #1. You can throw all the HP you want into a car, but without a refined chassis and phenomenal response the car is nothing more than an engine with wheels. The BRZ/FRS/GT86 is a car for drivers, not HP junkies.
Actually dude I don't think they would. Plenty of cars under 200hp have been taken to the track. Power to weight ratio has a lot to do with speed around a track.
Ok. So would you rather have a base Mustang GT with no luxury features or fully-loaded with navigation Genesis Coupe V6? It's all up to you. For the same price, I would go for the Genesis Coupe V6 Track. It's just my opinion, but I felt like sharing it.
For the V8 version, compared to the top of the line Gen Coupe which is $33k, comes with the Brembo brakes, and everything the base model has (or R-Spec) and then with everything the GT model has (Navigation, power/heated seats etc)..to get that stuff (and not even all of it..still don't get an MP3 capable CD player) you spend $37k. So for 4k more you get nearly 80 more BHP. So you gain benefits with both it just depends on you. While I'd like 80 more BHP, I love my MP3 player.
ehh the 2013 GC has 350hp now ... what you say is right but on the 2010-2012 models that had 306hp .. the 2013 has redesigner suspension geometry and the track suspension models pull 0.97g on the skidpad and 0.99g on the rspec with the camber bolts which outguns all of the mentionned cars
The way i look at it is driving is one of the things that i enjoy the most. i like to feel the road and have an exhilarating drive every time i get into my car. When it comes to the BRZ one of the most attractive things is the boxer engine and how low its centre of gravity it is, it hugs the road and lets you feel every little bit, or so ive heard from many different sources. 200 horsepower is realy perfect to keep it affordable and balanced.
I won the 2013 Genisis. Great car to drive. However when the Bridgestone Potenzas wear out kook to spend $1800 to replace. There are 245 in the back and 225 in the front, No rotation here,
Lots of Mustangs means they have a huge aftermarket dedicated to Mustang parts. If you want your Mustang to stand out it is easy to customize it to make it look one of a kind.
You might be right, I saw one at the Auto Show, a 2013 with Recaro shits and everything fully loaded and I was remembering a 30k price tag, but it might have been around the 28-29k region. This is with the fees the dealer likes to add on btw.
Cheapest GC is $29k MSRP, comes with Brembo brakes, torsen LSD, 19 inch wheels, track-tuned suspension. CD player with MP3 hookups, leather, other than that it's pretty bare interior wise..but so is the Mustang in retrospect. The Mustang V6, to get all that stuff (you don't even get Brembos, but you get better brakes than stock so we can count it I guess), it costs about $26k. So yeah it's cheaper by about 3k, but is also slower and you don't get that nifty Sirius XM/ MP3 hookup.
You're missing the point.. The ST does have performance implications.. But it was still originality designed as an economy car, just like the Golf GTI, Mazdaspeed 3, or Civic SI... The BRZ/FRS on the other hand was (uncompromisingly) designed as a true sports car from the beginning, which means there is greater performance potential. ; )
That's a good deal. You can get a 2013 Mustang GT 5.0 for about the same. I paid $29,900 for mine. It doesn't come with as good a wheel/tire/brake package as the R-spec, but has quite a bit more power. I guess it depends on what you value more. I'll throw some better rubber on my Mustang once I wear out the stock set.
The 370Z is over the magic $30k limit though. The others are all below $26k. You're talking about a price difference of more than 25%, which is a lot of money.
Not really, if you put the v6 mustang against the v6 hyundai genesis it will probably lose. I don't know why they used the 4 cylinder genesis when the hyundai genesis 3.8 r-spec is also under $30k.
I hope everyone realizes the Subaru BRZ/Toyota GT86/Scion FRS are meant to be tuner bases. 200hp is only the starting point, so even w/ turbo kits, any turbo lag will still have some bite.
That's because the paddle shifters shift faster than a manual and the best of those manufacturers in question want you to get the best performance possible..not always about how it feels to drive it seems. That's why the GT-R is the way it is, you can't shift as fast as it's computer can.
The gen is turbo charged? And its only .3 faster than the other 2L? Needs work. The brz would probably be set over the top if it had a turbo. It needs a turbo.
So then the V6 needs to compete with the NA 4 cyl? doesnt change the fact that these toyota/subaru and Mazda engines are tuned well without any turbo or high displacement..
I am buying a brz next spring, i may put on a HKS supercharger kit on it. it will bump up the engine too about 250 hp and doesn't require any engine overhauls because really its not putting that much stress on the engine. once at 250 hp it will be a more substantial car even though its still not much for modern day technology.
Nissan is developing a new 240sx from what I read, Alpha Romeo and Mazda are jointly producing a car, no word from Honda though. GM is also supposedly going to produce a competitor too, I think its called the 130R.
i just want to point out that weight distribution numbers on paper shouldn't be the only deciding factor on a car's handling. sure the V8 Camaro has a ratio closer to 50/50 than the Mustang and the BRZ, but when you drive a Camaro, you notice how sluggish and awkward it is through a corner, whereas despite the numbers on paper, you feel that the car is balanced when you drive the BRZ and the Mustang. all i'm saying is you should take the word of a reviewer or the specs sheet. drive the cars.
i didn't say it was rice i said it would ruin the whole point of the car. subaru has clearly stated that they are against the idea of a turbo on this car because it changes it from the kind of car they wanted to make. subaru has also said that going with tires with more grip changes it from the car they made. if you waste your money with all those mods on this car you might as well just go with a mustang GT.
I agree with this. I don't mind professionals saying it is easy, but some people just don't understand how hard it is and how risky it will be driving a low powered car. its either all in or don't try at all.
why? the mx5 is a small super light weight, balanced chassis with rear-wheel drive...focusing on handling rather than all out power....exactly what the subaru brz/scion frs is...
My FRS is my dd.. coming out of a stageII '10 wrx hatch into this car I knew I'd be missing a bunch of torque and hp. As it turns out.. I have more fun in this car on my daily commute than most do at a track day. I seriously cannot wait for the warm weather to return so I can go play at autox :D Its obvious the engineers that built it put a lot of time and emphasis into making the car FUN.
Of course there were other cars but just about all those you mentioned are out of production and would cost more than $30k especially the Nsx, Rx7, S2000, and Mr2(s). Silvias never made it to america(we got the 240sx instead and its not as good). Of course you can buy them used but this is about cars that are currently in production.
Another review, the BRZ takes on a V6 Mustang (300hp) on a twisty course. 2/3 the horsepower and the Stang was wearing the "track pack" (upgraded tires). Subaru was only 1.5 seconds off the Ford's 1:29. So the Subie definitely handles shweet..
Yea man, i got a huge respect for the part manufacturers, its tough.. I just contacted a Subi dealer now.. they should get a BRZ by next week, so im excited to test drive it! and bro, i wanted to ask, why the BRZ? i like the concept behind the car, the engineering involved, and i love how it looks. i really dont care that it has 200 hp, it could be improved, i drive a Suzuki now that just has 143! And ive driven lots of cars and im hoping that when i drive the BRZ, i get that feeling i want.
What you seem not to get is that life is not about getting from A to B in a low time, racing is. However, I don't say numbers are not important, I'd rather say this long lived discussion would be better defined as a 50/50. 50 for numbers and 50 for feeling. Numbers are important as they in some way make the car you're talking about, they give you a good reference to compare with other cars and feeling is not something you can get from a spec-sheet, you get it only by driving.
so bolt-on plus tune yield 30-50 whp?? plus rest into suspension?? If you get the sfr tune on the gen, you gain 30whp/50wtq for only $500. and u have rest of the money to put into tune. overall i think genesis is the better car.
What are you doing to tear up a clutch. I have had over 220k miles on the same clutch in a 200sx-es-r and I was not kind to that poor car. It does really matter the type of clutch and how bad of a kick the clutch has. Older Mustangs are a pain with a clutch. The newer ones are easier to drive. Personally all I own are manuals.
It's funny how they never use the genesis with the 3.8 in the comparisons even when its sub 30k. The 3.8 can be bought for 29k as the r-spec version and it would eat both of the competition.
I really hope they make a full commitment on the BRZ as Mazda did with the Miata. I mean look now, there are Miatas everywhere, one the best cars on the road. That would be awesome if the same happened with the BRZ/86GT
I'm with you in buying a used S2K, but there's no way in hell a FR-S can compare to a Focus ST. One is a econo-box wih a bigger FWD engine and some other things. The other is a performance car built from the ground up with a RWD engine.
I agree. The Genesis 2.0T should be compared with the V6 Mustang. The Miata and BR-Z (FR-S) are in the same league, the Genesis is not. I know they wanted a 3rd car from the same price range for the comparison, but it really doesn't work.
Despite the fact that I'm shouting a the screen "it's a MX5, It's pronounced Hy-un-dye and it's a BR-Zed" this is an entertaining review and the production values are very high.
Have a Miata and test drove the BRZ - the stock Miata needs proper shocks/coilovers but then its a better drivers car than the BRZ. Like both and thought about trading the Miata for the BRZ but I won't.
drove the Scion version, its cheap feeling inside and you get blown all over the highway because its so light. Its a fun car but looks wise and room id buy the Genesis all day long over it. Still a sharp car. I wouldnt even touch the mazda, I want a bit more room!
Surprisingly, the BR-Z isn't that light for a sports car of that size. My Focus weighs less than it actually. BR-Z : 2,700 lbs. 2000 Focus Sedan : 2,590 lbs.
Yeah as I said, they base everything on performance now. That's what the majority of consumers seem to enjoy, how fast it can get to 60 mph, or how fast it can do the 1/4 mile. Not how fun it is to drive.
You clearly don't know what you are talking about. In the August issue of Top Gear Magazine, the Toyobaru came in first place, ahead of the Focus ST, Boxster S, M6, TT-RS, Exige S, Carrera S, Aventador, M600, MP4-12C, GT-R, M5 and C63 Black. People like yourself simply don't get it: driver engagement is EVERYTHING, not performance figures. You're buying a car, not a spreadsheet, and the Toyobaru twins are unquestionably the best sports cars on the market today.
You're completely missing the point.. The V6 mustang might look better on paper thanks to it's additional power giving it better 0-60, and sticky tires giving it better lateral accel.. But such numbers tell you nothing about chassis balance, driver involvement, and outright driving pleasure. It is an immeasurable, almost intangible quality that cars like the Miata and FRS/BRZ have in spades over the mustang.. OH, and power/tires can be easily added, A balanced driving dynamic? not so much ; )
Everytime I look at the Miata, I can't help but imagine the front as a face saying "Yay! My gosh guys, what a super day it is!"
AirLancer give a new meaning to "fun car". lol
"At Wilkins Hyundai and Subaru, we have Hyundais and subarus." - Peter Griffin
lmfao
I'd love to see an updated version of this with the discontinued (but still for sale) '16 Genesis coupe, Miata RF, and the updated BRZ.
The 2016 couple would be the 3.8l version, with about 75 more horsepower than the 2.0t model. It would not merely be faster in the new tests, but _way_ faster. I wonder if that would sway any ratings.
Down-side? A turbo is fun just for being a turbo, so. . . .
Driven all three. Different strengths and weaknesses. I have a lowered, stiffened miata with some engine tuning and love it. Can see the appeal of the BRZ, too. Genesis, less tossable.
Haven't driven the others but I'm a solid fan of my '06 MX-5.
I've got the '06 Mx-5 myself. I'm just about to put new springs and shocks into the suspension and I'm pretty sure that'll take care of body roll.
Rock it man. I've got new struts on the back and it tracks like it's on rails. Love that car.
Just got home from a deployment to a BRZ in the driveway. Can't stop thinking about getting back out there and driving it. Fun fun fun
Problem of the youtube comment section : too much "drivers" are driving their car on Forza Motorsport and Gran Turismo.
If it's about real driving, believe the pros, this BRZ is an astonishing car that completely make you enjoy driving.
After that, my last comment is : "Haters gonna hate !"
FR-S is way better than the BRZ... just sayin... lol, jk I know they are both basically the same car.
HeroDanny
Their the same in every way but their logos and badges. and i think the FR-S has LEDs under its front scion logo.
Nope, there are some minor cosmetic differences involving the exhaust and a few aesthetic things. But they are 99.9% the same.
Tampa Boy nah that's just the 10 series fr-s which comes only in a unique silver to that trim they call ignition, and adds about 4 grand onto the price tag
Travis Adams true, well i did want a BRZ but knowing that it's only 200/151. think i'll just get an genesis coupe 2.0t for the same price.
I think that's why they went with Toyota Prius tires, to make it easier to get loose and funner to push to the limits. You definitely are right about the driving skill it takes to hold a drift. I started out in an '89 Subaru GL. Had it in 4wd all the time with no front axles. The handbrake works the FRONT wheels too. That thing would do some MASSIVE burnouts in 4wd low. It took quite some time and many near accidents to hold a drift.
This video literally didn't help me decide between the three lol
What did you end up getting?
Genesis!!!
people love to talk shit about the genesis coupe but talk to any genesis owner and they will not be able to stop praising their car
I mean it is a good car, people judge stuff a lot, even when they don't have it, I can talk shit bout MX-5 but i don't cuz i never driven one
I've also seen "experts" review the car with traction and stability control on lmao. Everyone who owns one knows how much of a difference it makes.
After my own experiences and opinion...
Miata - too impractical and kinda ga... feminine
BRZ - Horrible interior, after a while it's an eyesore for anyone but a pure enthusiast. And Lets face it...Needs... more.. power..
Genesis Coupe - The winner. Modern luxury interior. Top notch imo. Get a manual 2013+ V6 track used with low miles for 25kish and you have a beastly fast sports car that does everything well enough for the street. The BRZ might be more fun to drive, but it does 0-60 2 SECONDS slower than the genesis V6.... both of them will bring the same size smile to the driver. The way the car looks isn't as nice as it could be, but it's fair enough. I give the BRZ the win for looks.
That's where i am now, trying to find that perfect used genesis. I'm not buying brand new one for 36k.
me too bud im lookin for a nice black manual 2.0t down here in florida im findin more than expected. good luck
MultiKalwin lol korean shit isn't suppose to be even on the list. If miata is too gay for u, mb lotus elan, mg mgb, alfa romeo duetto, fiat 124 etc. are gayish too? but looking at ur choice i think that u just don't comprehend sporty cars.
I couldn't agree more, I test drove both the BRZ and Genesis and ended up buying the 3.8 Genesis Coupe. As for a Miata, I've never been interested.
GURken sorry I'm not rich... or stupid. For me to buy any of those cars listed while living in Wisconsin and poor would be... stupid... but also standing 6 foot 5" I dont fit in the miata. Thanks for your stupid opinion.
GURken No capitalization at the beginning of your sentences, writing u instead of the proper form of you and ur instead of your......yeah, I stopped listening a long time back.
Great job! First comparo I've seen of these three cars! This is the comparo that everyone has been wanting to see since the release of the BRZ/FR-S and the update to the Genesis Coupe!
Haha. I love how much hate there is for the FRS/BRZ in EVERY youtube comments section where the FRS wins a head to head. So many people love driving it, and idiots get on here complaining because it doesn't have the best numbers, therefore all these professional car enthusiasts are mistaken, and joe shmo clearly knows what's best. lol.
Take the FRS for a test drive, it's a blast.
It's a miata from subaru. Get your own ideas toyota. Nothing special about it other than Subaru offered their miata with more horspower like everyone has been begging from Mazda.
GeForce GT
I was pointing out that it is a minimalist sports car like the miata, I understand that there are inherent differences between the two. The basic principle behind them however, is the same: a lightweight rwd car that doesn't need a ton of horsepower to be fun. I have no issue with subaru or their boxer engines, I do hate toyota on the other hand because they don't design anything in house that is worth a damn
DoomsdayMelody91
The idea of a lightweight minimalist sports car has been around since way before the Miata... I love all three of these cars, but the BRZ is obviously the better driver's car... It's a coupe and has the best handling of the three, enough said.
DoomsdayMelody91 "mita from subaru" really! i mean really! where are you getting that from. What does MX-5 have: subaru's legendary limited split differential, or lowest center of gravity ever on any production car under 40K. or the legendary boxer engine that places itself almost on ground?
Adil Baig
They share the same concept, its a minimalist's sports car
this is pretty much what I expected from the review. Its hard to compare the three because they were designed to be different animals from the beginning. The Genesis Coupe will never will a comparison between the BR-Z because its based on value. I can tell you this, for everyday driving you will be a fool to not take the genesis, unless you got 26K to blow on a Sunday/ track car. All good cars, but I think this comparison just convinced me to get the 2013 3.8 R-SPEC. Thanks R&T!
Love my FR-S. The only thing about the BRZ I dont like is the only thing thats different. The ugly mustache. :D
Well I agree that the Focus itself might be, but the ST trim and the Mazdaspeed trim weren't going in that direction. Same with the Si trim. At least two of those models have a hybrid trim, those are the cars designed as the economy cars. The performance trims were designed as just that. You said the Focus st was built as an economy car which is wrong, the Focus was built as the economy car, the ST trim was built as a performance version of that car.
I see people talking about Hyundai being the best here?... U guys know nothing of automotive, car companies now can bend n mold metal n plastic any way they like but not everyone can do what Subaru/Toyota did with this car I own a lexus is-f which just slaps the Hyundai but my fr-s is still more fun to sit behind the wheel..... So shhhhh brz/frs is a instant classic automobile for a reason
And what exactly did Subaru/Toyota do that's so special?
Are the ToyoBaru twins fantastic cars? Yes but I attribute that more to finding the correct balance for what they wanted. Mazda and Hyundai had something different in mind when they designed their cars. I'd say Mazda wanted a more barebones setup while Hyundai wanted more luxury.
David And why would you buy an FR-S when you drive an IS-F you moron
I found the ignorant one^
$22,200 305 hp V6 Mustang vs $24,250 274 hp Genesis Coupe 2.0T. $30,300 420 hp Mustang GT vs $28,750 348 hp Genesis Coupe 3.8. And the Genesis Coupe isn't available with a V8! The Mustang also is available as a convertible, the 444 hp Boss 302, and the 662 hp GT500!
Nicely done gentlemen. Short, sweet and to the point. Keep up the good work !
Also if you're like me and hate soft-tops, they make a hard-top version. It adds weight, but cuts road noise, and the Miata is already a really light car.
And btw, for the price of the premium BRZ, you can buy a 3.8L Genesis Coupe R-Spec. At that point, there's no longer any competition.
You are doing a "Sub-30K RWD Sports Coupe Test" and no Mustang?? The V6 starts at $22,000 and has over 300 hp
Why? The 2.0T is much closer in price. These comparisions need to be done based on price. That's why you have to pit the 3.8 Genesis against the 370z and Mustang GT 5.0. I know you may not like the matchups there, but the price is right.
not really. A lot of manufacturers flat out don't offer a stick shift, all of the European manufacturers have gone to paddle shifts, more cars are becoming available in automatic only, etc. It's still better to drive a manual (IMO), but its completely viable to drive an automatic.
dude the base price for a ford focus st is 23,495 and fully loaded it's 28,170 where did you get 30+ k from????
The Focus ST starts at around $24.7k, same base price as the FR-S. The ST is bigger, has 250 hp and 263 ft lbs from a turbo, recaro seats and is already been sold in Europe for years so it has already proven itself. Comparing these two is a no brainer, ST is a better choice. If you want an FR-S/BR-Z wait for the turbo version.
Yes, they are still using a live rear axle. The thing is, you'd barely know it by driving the car. My last car was a 350z, and this Mustang handles damn near as well. I would never have believed it until I drove it. I kind of like having a solid axle in a muscle/pony car.. it's like having the last of a breed.
what does it having a rotary have to do with anything? It produces very similar performance to the BRZ and Genesis Coupe (the BRZ specifically). Its also a coupe, lightweight and well balanced like the genesis and BRZ. The ONLY reason its not being compared here is because its no longer manufactured.
I drove the GT86 last weekend here in germany. Awesome car for people, who would like to have a sports car, but can't afford a Ferrari oder Lamborghini. I feel thankful to Toyota and Subaru for developing this kind of Coupe with low weight and balanced power... 200 Hp is rly enough if you don't want to go for laptimes on the Nordschleife ... even the gas consumption is ok if you drive in town.
I get the need for speed, but let's be honest. When are you going to exceed 139mph on the street? I think the beautiful handling and smooth shifting are worth it. Also, you can get the engine over 200hp with a supercharger that only adds 25lbs. You might like the Honda S2000, but you'll have to get it used because they stopped production in '09.
Excellent review, driving experience is #1. You can throw all the HP you want into a car, but without a refined chassis and phenomenal response the car is nothing more than an engine with wheels. The BRZ/FRS/GT86 is a car for drivers, not HP junkies.
Actually dude I don't think they would. Plenty of cars under 200hp have been taken to the track. Power to weight ratio has a lot to do with speed around a track.
You have to also put into account that the 2013 genesis coupe was already out in S. Korea
Ok. So would you rather have a base Mustang GT with no luxury features or fully-loaded with navigation Genesis Coupe V6? It's all up to you. For the same price, I would go for the Genesis Coupe V6 Track. It's just my opinion, but I felt like sharing it.
For the V8 version, compared to the top of the line Gen Coupe which is $33k, comes with the Brembo brakes, and everything the base model has (or R-Spec) and then with everything the GT model has (Navigation, power/heated seats etc)..to get that stuff (and not even all of it..still don't get an MP3 capable CD player) you spend $37k. So for 4k more you get nearly 80 more BHP. So you gain benefits with both it just depends on you. While I'd like 80 more BHP, I love my MP3 player.
ehh the 2013 GC has 350hp now ... what you say is right but on the 2010-2012 models that had 306hp ..
the 2013 has redesigner suspension geometry and the track suspension models pull 0.97g on the skidpad and 0.99g on the rspec with the camber bolts which outguns all of the mentionned cars
The way i look at it is driving is one of the things that i enjoy the most. i like to feel the road and have an exhilarating drive every time i get into my car. When it comes to the BRZ one of the most attractive things is the boxer engine and how low its centre of gravity it is, it hugs the road and lets you feel every little bit, or so ive heard from many different sources. 200 horsepower is realy perfect to keep it affordable and balanced.
Why the miata against these two instead of the mazda speed-3 .???? Trying to decide between the speed-3 , BRV, and genesis ...
I won the 2013 Genisis. Great car to drive. However when the Bridgestone Potenzas wear out kook to spend $1800 to replace. There are 245 in the back and 225 in the front, No rotation here,
Lots of Mustangs means they have a huge aftermarket dedicated to Mustang parts. If you want your Mustang to stand out it is easy to customize it to make it look one of a kind.
on a racetrack yes it does .. but at the dragstrip the Z is a little bit quicker
the redesigned suspension elements on the 2013 gc does wonders ..
why isnt the rx-8 in this test as well.. i know its discontinued but you cant talk about true 50/50 cars without the rx8 in the discussion..
Yeah it does. Maybe the brz/fr-s will inspire honda to make another car like it or bring the prelude back with rear wheel drive and more hp.
You might be right, I saw one at the Auto Show, a 2013 with Recaro shits and everything fully loaded and I was remembering a 30k price tag, but it might have been around the 28-29k region. This is with the fees the dealer likes to add on btw.
Cheapest GC is $29k MSRP, comes with Brembo brakes, torsen LSD, 19 inch wheels, track-tuned suspension. CD player with MP3 hookups, leather, other than that it's pretty bare interior wise..but so is the Mustang in retrospect. The Mustang V6, to get all that stuff (you don't even get Brembos, but you get better brakes than stock so we can count it I guess), it costs about $26k. So yeah it's cheaper by about 3k, but is also slower and you don't get that nifty Sirius XM/ MP3 hookup.
You're missing the point.. The ST does have performance implications.. But it was still originality designed as an economy car, just like the Golf GTI, Mazdaspeed 3, or Civic SI...
The BRZ/FRS on the other hand was (uncompromisingly) designed as a true sports car from the beginning, which means there is greater performance potential. ; )
That's a good deal. You can get a 2013 Mustang GT 5.0 for about the same. I paid $29,900 for mine. It doesn't come with as good a wheel/tire/brake package as the R-spec, but has quite a bit more power. I guess it depends on what you value more. I'll throw some better rubber on my Mustang once I wear out the stock set.
The 370Z is over the magic $30k limit though. The others are all below $26k. You're talking about a price difference of more than 25%, which is a lot of money.
Not really, if you put the v6 mustang against the v6 hyundai genesis it will probably lose. I don't know why they used the 4 cylinder genesis when the hyundai genesis 3.8 r-spec is also under $30k.
darn, your right... which one do you think looks better? i think the frs looks better than the brz
I hope everyone realizes the Subaru BRZ/Toyota GT86/Scion FRS are meant to be tuner bases. 200hp is only the starting point, so even w/ turbo kits, any turbo lag will still have some bite.
That's because the paddle shifters shift faster than a manual and the best of those manufacturers in question want you to get the best performance possible..not always about how it feels to drive it seems. That's why the GT-R is the way it is, you can't shift as fast as it's computer can.
The gen is turbo charged? And its only .3 faster than the other 2L? Needs work. The brz would probably be set over the top if it had a turbo. It needs a turbo.
I drive a manual Fiero 2M6 year round, and I honestly don't understand why anyone would call a stick shift a "pain" in city driving.
we just drove it today and it was a total blast!!
I know it's no longer produced, but wouldn't the RX8/R3 be a much better comparison than the Miata?
So then the V6 needs to compete with the NA 4 cyl?
doesnt change the fact that these toyota/subaru and Mazda engines are tuned well without any turbo or high displacement..
I am buying a brz next spring, i may put on a HKS supercharger kit on it. it will bump up the engine too about 250 hp and doesn't require any engine overhauls because really its not putting that much stress on the engine. once at 250 hp it will be a more substantial car even though its still not much for modern day technology.
Nissan is developing a new 240sx from what I read, Alpha Romeo and Mazda are jointly producing a car, no word from Honda though. GM is also supposedly going to produce a competitor too, I think its called the 130R.
i just want to point out that weight distribution numbers on paper shouldn't be the only deciding factor on a car's handling. sure the V8 Camaro has a ratio closer to 50/50 than the Mustang and the BRZ, but when you drive a Camaro, you notice how sluggish and awkward it is through a corner, whereas despite the numbers on paper, you feel that the car is balanced when you drive the BRZ and the Mustang. all i'm saying is you should take the word of a reviewer or the specs sheet. drive the cars.
i didn't say it was rice i said it would ruin the whole point of the car. subaru has clearly stated that they are against the idea of a turbo on this car because it changes it from the kind of car they wanted to make. subaru has also said that going with tires with more grip changes it from the car they made. if you waste your money with all those mods on this car you might as well just go with a mustang GT.
I agree with this. I don't mind professionals saying it is easy, but some people just don't understand how hard it is and how risky it will be driving a low powered car. its either all in or don't try at all.
why? the mx5 is a small super light weight, balanced chassis with rear-wheel drive...focusing on handling rather than all out power....exactly what the subaru brz/scion frs is...
My FRS is my dd.. coming out of a stageII '10 wrx hatch into this car I knew I'd be missing a bunch of torque and hp. As it turns out.. I have more fun in this car on my daily commute than most do at a track day. I seriously cannot wait for the warm weather to return so I can go play at autox :D Its obvious the engineers that built it put a lot of time and emphasis into making the car FUN.
Of course there were other cars but just about all those you mentioned are out of production and would cost more than $30k especially the Nsx, Rx7, S2000, and Mr2(s). Silvias never made it to america(we got the 240sx instead and its not as good). Of course you can buy them used but this is about cars that are currently in production.
Another review, the BRZ takes on a V6 Mustang (300hp) on a twisty course.
2/3 the horsepower and the Stang was wearing the "track pack" (upgraded tires). Subaru was only 1.5 seconds off the Ford's 1:29. So the Subie definitely handles shweet..
Yea man, i got a huge respect for the part manufacturers, its tough.. I just contacted a Subi dealer now.. they should get a BRZ by next week, so im excited to test drive it! and bro, i wanted to ask, why the BRZ? i like the concept behind the car, the engineering involved, and i love how it looks. i really dont care that it has 200 hp, it could be improved, i drive a Suzuki now that just has 143! And ive driven lots of cars and im hoping that when i drive the BRZ, i get that feeling i want.
What you seem not to get is that life is not about getting from A to B in a low time, racing is. However, I don't say numbers are not important, I'd rather say this long lived discussion would be better defined as a 50/50. 50 for numbers and 50 for feeling. Numbers are important as they in some way make the car you're talking about, they give you a good reference to compare with other cars and feeling is not something you can get from a spec-sheet, you get it only by driving.
I have not looked as mustangs in a long time, are they still using a rear live axle?
Cheers!
so bolt-on plus tune yield 30-50 whp?? plus rest into suspension?? If you get the sfr tune on the gen, you gain 30whp/50wtq for only $500. and u have rest of the money to put into tune. overall i think genesis is the better car.
What are you doing to tear up a clutch. I have had over 220k miles on the same clutch in a 200sx-es-r and I was not kind to that poor car. It does really matter the type of clutch and how bad of a kick the clutch has. Older Mustangs are a pain with a clutch. The newer ones are easier to drive. Personally all I own are manuals.
True didn't really think of price of them, was just thinking v6 vs v6 would be more equal
Have you ever been to a track? They run wild with cars that have less than 200hp, Miata and Mini Cooper are the first that come to mind.
very great review. they give 0-60, quarter mile time, top speed, skidpad, slalom, and tell the winner.
so how does the BRZ compare to the S2000? i know they dont make it anymore, but i heard the S2000 was epic to drive
Right. Mazda just messed it up with the NCs stock suspension.
It's funny how they never use the genesis with the 3.8 in the comparisons even when its sub 30k. The 3.8 can be bought for 29k as the r-spec version and it would eat both of the competition.
yes! Genesis vs BRZ just what I wanted to see!
I really hope they make a full commitment on the BRZ as Mazda did with the Miata. I mean look now, there are Miatas everywhere, one the best cars on the road. That would be awesome if the same happened with the BRZ/86GT
I think these cars just upped the value of my 99 awd turbo Eclipse!
Thanks all car companies!!!! :)
I'm with you in buying a used S2K, but there's no way in hell a FR-S can compare to a Focus ST. One is a econo-box wih a bigger FWD engine and some other things. The other is a performance car built from the ground up with a RWD engine.
When are they going to redesign the MX5?
How do you guys get all of these cars..
i hear you man, why didnt they just keep FD3S and s15 spec R in production, they smash all three in stock form and they are are ancient
I agree. The Genesis 2.0T should be compared with the V6 Mustang. The Miata and BR-Z (FR-S) are in the same league, the Genesis is not. I know they wanted a 3rd car from the same price range for the comparison, but it really doesn't work.
Despite the fact that I'm shouting a the screen "it's a MX5, It's pronounced Hy-un-dye and it's a BR-Zed" this is an entertaining review and the production values are very high.
What kind of timing equipment was used in this review? MX-5 and BRZ 0-60mph (0-100km/h) comes nowhere near 6.6 seconds!!!
What is the curb weight? It's not always about power as much as it is weight.
Have a Miata and test drove the BRZ - the stock Miata needs proper shocks/coilovers but then its a better drivers car than the BRZ. Like both and thought about trading the Miata for the BRZ but I won't.
indeed, but we'll have to wait a couple of years to see the reliability of those 3 cars (I'm not worried about the miata, nor the Toyobaru)
drove the Scion version, its cheap feeling inside and you get blown all over the highway because its so light. Its a fun car but looks wise and room id buy the Genesis all day long over it. Still a sharp car. I wouldnt even touch the mazda, I want a bit more room!
sweet! i wanna get one when i graduate in August! going to be AWESOME! i cant wait!
you know with a the same turbos, the brz's engine produces more power? :o
Surprisingly, the BR-Z isn't that light for a sports car of that size. My Focus weighs less than it actually.
BR-Z : 2,700 lbs.
2000 Focus Sedan : 2,590 lbs.
....have you gotten into the car?
Yeah as I said, they base everything on performance now. That's what the majority of consumers seem to enjoy, how fast it can get to 60 mph, or how fast it can do the 1/4 mile. Not how fun it is to drive.
You clearly don't know what you are talking about. In the August issue of Top Gear Magazine, the Toyobaru came in first place, ahead of the Focus ST, Boxster S, M6, TT-RS, Exige S, Carrera S, Aventador, M600, MP4-12C, GT-R, M5 and C63 Black. People like yourself simply don't get it: driver engagement is EVERYTHING, not performance figures. You're buying a car, not a spreadsheet, and the Toyobaru twins are unquestionably the best sports cars on the market today.
You're completely missing the point.. The V6 mustang might look better on paper thanks to it's additional power giving it better 0-60, and sticky tires giving it better lateral accel..
But such numbers tell you nothing about chassis balance, driver involvement, and outright driving pleasure. It is an immeasurable, almost intangible quality that cars like the Miata and FRS/BRZ have in spades over the mustang.. OH, and power/tires can be easily added, A balanced driving dynamic? not so much ; )
Please make a part 2!
i love the miata's little roll bars. they are just the same height as the head rest, wait. What if you're taller than the head rest?