As someone who owns and dailies an RF, I find it way more fun to drive on the street than the twins. In track and autox it's much closer, but as a street car the Miata is just way more joyful. Roof down makes a huge difference in terms of slow car fast feel, and the car just feels light and free and easy to play around with in a way the twins don't for me. I'd say when driven hard they're a bit different in approach. In the Miata it's all about suspension and weight transfer, whereas the twins are more about slip angle and tires. I definitely agree about the inputs. Interestingly the Miata has a looser ratio steering rack than the BRZ, yet for some reason it feels tighter to me. I think the car just rotates much more easily. Probably a combination of the double wishbones, shorter wheelbase, lower weight, and front-mid engine layout. As for KPC, it's pretty subtle. I think there's a touch less flop during transitions compared to non KPC cars but even as someone who dailies a '21 it's hard to say. I actually rented a '22 and drove on some of the roads this video. There were a few funky things about that car, but it didn't seem to handle that different from mine. That being said it's incredible what the BRZ/86 does for the price, combined with it's livability. Both these cars are really 1 of 1 in their segments.
I’m 6’2 and fit in the Miata just fine. Where do people get this complaint? “I fit OK but tall people won’t even be able to sit down in it” I’m tall and I fit fine too.
Has to do with leg to torso ratio. I'm 6'2", w/ a 32" inseam, and I barely fit, but not comfortably at all, because my torso is long for my height. Legroom is fine, but from floor to the top of my head while seated it's 39", so ~1.5" taller than the rated headroom of 37.4".
going from my 2021 miata to GR86, i also noticed almost instantly that the GR86 had less steering feel which was odd because i thought my miata had kinda numb steering feel
The entire reason I currently own a MX5 Club is because no one wanted to sell the Twins for near MSRP and the places that did had roughly a 1 year waiting list. I went in looking for a RF but ended up with a soft top which after having done some top down drives I'm really happy with that decision (The lower weight being an additional plus.) The biggest weakness of the ND for sure is the soft suspension, I ended up going with RoadsterSport Springs and some Progress Sway Bars which has helped massively. The springs are better suited to the Bilstein dampers and the car just feels a lot more alert and sharp in general. Internal space does feel quite cramped, but once I'm actually driving it feels extremely comfortable and cozy driving it. The biggest impression it's left on me is how good of an actual daily driver it is despite not seeming like it is. It rides well, it's not all that loud inside, and it's easy to park. The trunk and interior space is adequate for normal day to day usage, it won't do a Costco run. But if you're just shopping for 1/2 people it'll easily do it. But the biggest take away is the fuel economy, even playing with the rev band and having fun it's easy to do mid-30s to even high-30s going to work or running errands. The twins are gonna be a whole lot better as a single car solution due to trunk space, but I don't find myself all that limited just owning the MX5 in the end.
True that, I'm owning an rf for 3yrs now and over 47000miles 😁. At the end of September my new miata arrives, a softop gts, lighter, easyer put the top down. I can imagine driving another car
@@anthonymoy4471 That's on my soft top, if I remember right an RF is slightly better for economy by like 0.5mpg. But the car itself is extremely economical even when hooning it about.
@@anthonymoy4471 I have a soft top 2016 nd1 and I use it to commute to work. Mostly highway. I have to try to get it to get less than 30mpg. I cannot confirm or deny a couple times of tripple digit speed (in Mexico ofcoarse)....for a few miles and stil getting 32 to 33. Drive with fuel in mind and easily get 36 to 37 cruise control set at 65 with flat ground
2020 RF GT very vigorous daily driving 12,000 mile average is 23 mpg. 40+ mpg cruising the highway at 70. It starts to drop above 70. Drops by 1 mpg with air conditioner on.
Get the soft-top Miata and that weight differential grows to more than 500 lbs, while also increasing the essential joy factor. The soft top also costs a lot less than the RF. Most importantly, the RF version simply does not offer the same open-air sensations as the standard Miata. It's a retractable targa top, not a true convertible. Look over either shoulder, you don't see mountains, ocean, sky, that VW Beetle full of flirty coeds, etc., the way you're supposed to when driving with the top down. Instead, you see nothing but a large, black obstruction; a plastic bucket filled with exposed brackets and bolts. Top down, the RF is also much noisier than the soft top, with dramatically noisier wind buffeting. The soft-top MX-5 is the true Miata experience; the classic small roadster, distilled to its unsullied convertible essence.
@@vlj1133 I really think the soft top feels more open is overblown. You probably spend 1% of your driving time looking behind you and during test drives it felt exactly like a convertible to me and the only time I ever noticed the pillars was double checking for blind spots. I never noticed or was affected by any wind buffeting. The RF looks better and more interesting subjectively and is more practical.
@@MadelnMachines Looks are subjective, obviously. I feel that the RF looks better than the soft top when the tops are up, but the soft top looks much better than the RF with the tops down. To put a finer point on it, why do people buy Miatas? To drive with the top up? There are far better, vastly more practical options out there for those who don't value the top-down experience. From its inception, the point of the Miata has always been to evoke the sporty image, carefree spirit, and wind-in-your-hair sensations of the classic British roadsters, which never had semi-enclosed targa tops. They were rag tops...true open-air convertibles. Their owners relished the full, unobstructed, 360-degree view of his or her surroundings. Anyway, while looks are a matter of personal taste, these things are not subjective: weight, cost, speed, outward visibility, interior headroom, and wind buffeting. By every objective measure except for parking lot security and top-up decibel levels inside the cabin, the standard Miata beats the RF. In adding the retractable targa top, the RF cedes nearly every measurable advantage to its convertible sibling. It is what is.
you can strip the twin down to 900'ish kg if you wanted. Sure, you can strip the MX5 down further, but the point is the twins can be made very nimble also, while still having a better chassis.
2021 Miata RF GT has been my daily driver for over a year now and I’m still in love with it. Not only is it phenomenal to drive as you mentioned it also beats the BRZ/86 in the fact that it is a convertible which is such a great feature when just going out on a fun drive to enjoy a beautiful day.
Im 6'1 160lbs, and I fit in the MX-5 perfectly. My brother is shorter than me and has a much harder time fitting in. If you're looking at the miata, don't make a decision based on height until you've actually sat in it. Your proportions are gonna be more important than anything. Also worth noting that the soft top has a bit more head room than the RF.
The biggest factors that made me go MX-5 were the lack of beeps and fake engine noise as well as lack of RTS/engine reliability problems that all are present in the GR86/BRZ...plus I love being able to remove the roof.
Great review....this is one of the better comparisons between the BRZ and the Miata on YT. The Miata is perfect as a second car you drive on the weekends.
Just fyi, because I know you often drive with traction control off, my understanding is that KPC and traction control are intrinsically linked on the 2022 ND2's. So, if you turn off TC, you're also turning off KPC--that might be why you didn't notice it doing much on your drive. From my understanding, it's also based on wheel speed differentials rather than any kind of g-vectoring, so it doesn't actually activate until a certain threshold of wheel speed difference is detected between the inside and outside wheels. I still want to tweak my car a bit, but I'm local, so some day I'd love for you to try out my ND2 setup on MCS 2-Ways and Karcepts bars to get your impressions. Getting everything upgraded for an inevitable HKS SC now that the ECU has been cracked and fueling solutions are being hammered out, so maybe sometime into next year if everything can be set up by then, funds and time permitting.
From the UK here. We don’t get the new BRZ here. I had a 2014 GT86. Now im looking for a fun car to buy and keep. GR/GR86, mx5 (180ps), s2000 maybe a cayman (na) The Mazda makes a lot of sense from a build and reliability perspective, also large numbers will make parts easier to but in 15-20 years time. This will be a keeper for the garage, and a second car for Sundays and some road trips and track days.
Honestly so many opinions amd that's all it is. But for me owning both at one point or another and current roadster owner, probably stock for stock miata is better but on track the brz is clicked in right. But lightly modded and the roadster probably takes it on both street and track. Thoughts for sure but both are awesome machines 👏🏽
Things as a GR86 owner whom likes the mx5 want to say 1, I am 6ft 1 but surprisingly I have better seating position in the Mx5 than the gr86 of my one year owner ship 2, the mx5 is very very rev happy in daily traffic driving compared to the gr86, in the gr86, you don't need above 4k rpm due to the power/torque to catch up with traffic but in the mx5 u r going 5k rpm plus and it's so much fun! 3, even when u r driving the mx5 like u stole it, the MPG is still so much better than the gr86 by almost 50% . 4, Gr86 has large cargo space that the mx5 don't have which is a very very good plus for the car. 5, mx5 is softer than the gr86 but still feel like a thorough bread sports car like the 86. 6, mx5 LHD have a very uncomfortable hand brake lever but the gr86 has the handbrake on the correct side I personally actually prefer the mx5 as a overall pure driver's car, but If you are concerned about the space, the gr86 is just such a fun car as well\ Both are 9/10 cars imo, no, loser here, all preference
This is a tough choice. Who'd a thought enthusiast would actually have a couple of solid rides in this day and age. For me, the BRZ wins as a performer that adds a lot of practicality. The Miata definitely requires a primary automobile.
I’ve owned a NC1 and ND1 and s2k and now gr86. Gr is a better daily when it comes to practicality and space. But engine is unreliable and shifter sucks, mpg sucks, at the track it feels very safe at the limit. ND2 rotates a lot easier, has way better mpg for daily and you get drivers experience with top down. And is definitely scarier at the limit.
Great review. As a ND2 Miata owner who tracks, I can tell you the brembo is good base setup to have but the pads they come with sucks very badly so not exactly out of the box track ready. The OEM pads with the brembo can't take heat. I find the short wheel base not an issue for at the limits controllability. I took it drifting on frozen lake and find it pretty easy once I figured the steering feel.
As a Miata guy, if I ever get the ND, it will be the RF (I already have full convertibles NA and NB). I can sacrifice BBS wheels and maybe the Brembo brakes, since I know I would upgrade at some point, but those Recaro seats are a MUST!! Specially if I can swap them to the NB!! 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
After about 5,000 miles in a 2020 GT RF I was very impressed with its grip up to the limits, but found the body roll trickier to manage than earlier Miatas. Stickier but trickier. I beefed up the shock tower brace, swapped out springs for Goodwin Racing springs for the RF, and had the car realigned to track specs. The difference has been remarkable, especially for the limited expense and simplicity of the changes. The car really should have been sold this way. No significant detriment in ride quality and no more excessive body roll. And the car is back to the more familiar linear responses at the limits. I later swapped out the original Bilstein B6s for B8s, but this was not really necessary except on the track. There are some great coilovers and stiffer anti sway bars, but I think those are only incremental improvements from my experience. Unless the car is mostly for track, in which case you’ll probably do that and more. I have not driven the KPC. But it’s difficult for me to imagine the improvements would be better than new springs. On the other hand, what it reportedly corrects is exactly what I didn’t like about the stock set up.
Congrats on the first press car, Fenton! How about reaching out to Toyota for a MT Supra and Honda for a new Type R? ND2 is a happy car to drive daily. 86/BRZ is more spacious and doesn't feel like a toy(compare to Miatas) ...but I need to drive one to find out.
GR-86 is for a fanboi who wants to put on a loud exhaust, bad tint job, and lower the car. The Miata RF is for anyone that appreciates driving excellence.
Yes, I agree because I own a Mazda Miata since 2013...... and have enjoyed this car so much.....it is my summer car... I also own a Miata TWO...... I bought it 3 years ago......!!!! My Miata is 2002.... in excellent condition.....they made wonderful cars very reliable.... and fun to drive.....!!!! BRAVO.... MAZDA.....!!!!
I own a GR86 and I used to drive my friend's Miata RF occasionally. I'll admit that the Miata was more fun than the GR86/BRZ and more reliable mechanically. The steering feel was better too. However, for my purposes, it was just too impractical. Can't load in my snowboard gear or guitar gear, not even close. Reviewers have said this but the twins are better for someone's only car and a Miata is really a secondary car for those who have a practical daily. An additional note that some people might not care about, but the Miata's infotainment is better too because the screen is in your line of sight however the speedometer is close to unreadable because the numbers are so squished together.
As someone who has had a stock 10AE miata and currently has a modified 2002 miata and driven both the new miata and the new brz/86, I would say that the miata is the "funner" car to drive forsure BUT.... not great for a daily, its best as a second car for fun. After some time when you eventually get numb to the driving feel, you start to wish the miata had just a little bit more room and was just a little bit quieter and had just a little extra space to take something like your wife + dog with you or something larger than 2 backpacks... and the perfect answer to that is the BRZ/86 and yet the compromise is minimal. Weight? Psh. For perspective, its less than an s2k. Its much better overall to live with and also would make a better track car too. Its heavier still, sure, but compared to everything else on the street, its still among the lightest cars on the road and by a large margin too. On top of that, its more aerodynamic than most sports cars which is actually a huge advantage for track builds over the miata and the larger engine displacement opens up the door to greater power and torque possibilities. No lie, the new brz/86 is the only car I would sell my modified NB2 with 70k original miles, clean title and a fastback top. No other sports car would be a good exchange.
You’re comparing two different things. Miata is a pure sports car. It’s meant to have sacrifices and compromises. You’re critiquing it for being something it was not designed to be, which is a practical daily for hauling the wife and dog. If that’s what you’re after, you’ll find much better options than a BRZ on the market anyways. You can’t knock the Miata for being impractical and not having cargo space. That’s like criticizing a fish for trying to swim.
@@donjohnson2428 dont get me wrong. I think you might be thinking that I don't understand what these cars are for. Understandable, as I didnt give all the details of my life and background with sports cars but im not against either car as I love both and I am an owner of a miata myself and I love it. The only thing I am saying is that the miata, as a true pure sports car, is meant to do pure sports car things, which I do often, but if you're not doing sports car things, then the miata gets left in your garage because you dont have a choice. Its a purpose-built car so using it even as a daily starts wearing you down if you try to use it for non-sports car things. Thats why I said its best when its your side car. I have my cozy 4 door for when im taking the wife and dog with me somewhere. BUT, there are many times I want to take the miata and take my wife and dog to the beaches of california. The hills are curvy and a lot of fun to drive here, perfect sports car roads, but since there is nowhere to take the dog(or just beach supplies for 2 people such as two foldable chairs dont fit in an NB but a very SMALL ice chest can though, and extra clothes and you've maxed out your cargo space), I have to ditch the car and take the 4door. So that sucks because im missing out on the drive there. The BRZ solves that issue because, even though the car is still very small, you have just a little extra space to take beach supplies or a dog(possibly both). So im just saying that a BRZ is for people who want to use their sports car and take a few things with them somewhere. The miata is when you go out specifically for the drive itself.
So I'm Toyota guy at heart. But I'm also a Mazda guy. I'd prefer a FD or a supra. And working for Toyota as a salesman the 86 is boring. I didn't get to drive a new but an older TRD 86 with a manual, actually got to drive it for about 4 hours. And me being 6'4" it wasn't to bad. It did get a lot of looks. But it was boring. Tried drifting it a couple times. And it would just lose traction just a tiny bit. Even in track mode. I don't understand how these are considered drift cars. My old 96 V6 step side is a way better "drift" car and seemed more powerful then the 86. I haven't drove a new Miata, couldn't fit in NA. But I'd chose the Miata because it's simply easier to work on. Flat 4's are the deal breaker for me
Did you drive the Miata with TC fully off? If you did, then that deactivates the KPC. I own a ND2 non KPC and a 17' BMW M2, I agree, at the limit, you have to pay attention, since once the front loads or the car is leaning on one side, it doesn't take much to throw it in oversteer. the M2 is a peach at 10/10, lot more predictable at the limit / sliding. Just two different tools for different jobs. Love both.
This is no contest. Haven't seen the video yet and I can say...the Miata is designed for a better driving experience since 1989. Also someone already did a track video with the old BRZ vs Miata and the Miata still pulled ahead there too. A 2016 Miata would rival this one as well. One thing you have to do is change the suspension on the Miata 2016 to current. Its known the suspension is soft.
I'd have loved to have an MX-5 but it is just too small for me, at 6' and 250 lb. But I really don't feel that the BRZ has been a compromise, it's just as much fun as my brother's MX-5 with added practicality that allows it to do everything I need my car to do. Here in Australia, the RF is also considerably more expensive, around US$5,000 more.
Having test driven a base ZD8 BRZ and a pre-KPC Grand-touring ND2 RF, I'd like to share some maybe not so interesting thoughts haha. I didn't feel huge differences in steering response (didn't push too much in test drives), but I'd say BRZ has a faster rack than the Miata. I remember the last gen BRZ had a steering ratio of 13:1 (don't know if the new one is still the same), and Miata has 15.x:1. In my test drives, I remember BRZ really turned with very little steering input, whereas Miata needed a bit more input to turn. Not to mention BRZ's steering has nearly zero dead zone. Both cars have really nice small turn radii. Shifter and clutch: Miata wins hands down, and is also a lot more forgiving, which is a blessing for a beginner like me. Stock brake pedal feel was very short and stiff for the BRZ. Miata's felt normal, nothing too special. I didn't feel BRZ's throttle response was too bad in my test drive, but I've seen many videos on how terrible it is, so I think I'll get a throttle controller [e.g.: Max Orido's 感度 (kando) Max throttle controller] as one of my first mods for my incoming GR86.
I actually find the Miata's steering feels tighter despite it's les sensitive ratios. I think for little corrections the BRZ is sharper but the Miata rotates a lot more easily and has a stronger front end, so I don't feel like i'm turning the wheel as hard in corners.
Why just compare the "driving" aspect of it? The whole point of the MX-5 is the convertible aspect of it. The MX-5 is definitely not as rigid and a bit slower, but if you want a convertible experience, you're not going to get it from the 86 no matter what. If you care for straight line speed, both of these cars are not fast, so no one is going to pick the 86 over the MX-5 just because it's a tiny bit faster. The shifter in the MX-5 is much crisper and there's no rev hang so it's a better driving feel in that regard. Suspensions is among the cheapest and easiest to mod as well, so it's not difficult to eliminate the body roll on the MX-5. It's much harder to change out for a better transmission, shifter, steering feel, throttle feel etc.
Think you've answered your own question there. No point comparing that way because if you want the convertible experience that's going to solve which to get surely
If your going to take your MX-5 to the track (and it's only the stock RF that would be legal there) you should change your brake fluid to a high temperature version regardless of whether you have the Club or non-Club version. If you boil your stock brake fluid, you will fail. Problem with this presentation. The 2022 did have KPC, but when you disable the dynamic traction control the KPC is also disabled. I'm guessing this guy didn't realize the connection when he notes more roll than expected at @11:30 . (I'm not sure whether they separated the two disabling controls in the 2023 or 2024 models.)
A sports car without at least a removable sun roof is a full stop for me, score big for the MX5 in either flavor. I have had a 2020 ND2 GT RF and now a 2022 ND2 GT ST with the new KPC. Yes, the KPC may help reduce roll in some small amount, but on a track or autocross you will have that feature turned off. The MX5 is soft on bottom and has generous suspension travel making driving on real roads comfortable, the compromise is a little bit of body roll. Easy enough to reduce at the expense of ride quality if so desired.
BTW, I am 5-11, 175 pounds and I fit just fine in the Miata even for long days in the saddle and neither the seat adjustments or the steering wheel adjustments are at limits. If comfort is what one wants then get an SUV. If one wants a real sports car then get the MX5.
A traditional way to drive in a momentum style is to use minimal braking early and hit the accelerator on corner entry this way you get little body roll on the MX5. Also because you get more g force you need to push into the foot rest and headrest due to the lack of lateral seat support and keep the hands on the wheel light, all traditional stuff and good fun, you also carry way more speed. This was the original use of the foot rest in racing. But once you commit you don't really want to lift off mid corner can get messy.
As an owner if both. I can relay that if I could only have one I'd stay with the brz. The practical aspect is perfect for 1 car and in terms of performance it feels more serious. Miata Is joyful and playful but not at all practical. It's difficult to even have a backpack without using the trunk
wvery time i watch videos about potential replacements for my old celica (with a Beams swap and full aftermarket suspension) i'm left underwhelmed. new cars all try to artificially create the "directness" that old cars have built-in
I was set on an MX5 until we took it out for a test drive and there wasn't room in the passenger side footwell for my wife and her purse (and this was a fairly small purse). This was a deal killer for both of us, which was a bummer as my wife really liked the MX5 as well. But one of the purposes was for it to be something we could do shorter road trips with. So ultimately it came down to the first gen 86 or a Supra with the 86 winning out.
Really good review of the 2 cars. Been thinking about buying another miata. For sure a ND. Most likely the rf. I work outside, get pleanty of ☀️. Owned a 90, 92 autocross car, and a 93le. All moddified slightly to go fast, and handle. Outstanding cars! The body roll of the stock nd wouldnt work for me. Sounds like a good cure is the ohlin coilovers. Around $3000 for those and proper exhaust. Think maybe a used one would be best for me. Current car is a 2019 mustang Bullitt with magnaride. Also has ford racing suspension upgrade with a flash for the computer. Works. Very fast car in the corners. Just needs to go on a diet, loose weight😂 Great review. Thanks
Great that Mazda provided a press car. A soft top ND2 Club as a fun car would be an awesome Sunday car, they do seem to be holding value on the used car market (like most cars!)
Great video! I am actually trying to pick between GR86/BRZ, Miata and the new BMW230i for a weekend and occasional track car. Would love to hear your thoughts on the BMW if you have ever driven one!
While I will always love the MX-5 after owning two NDs, Mazda has priced the ND MX-5 too high. A base GR86/BRZ simply offers better value to the enthusiast with some important standard features like the LSD. By the time you add the package to get the LSD in the MX-5, it's price is significantly more than the GR86/BRZ.
The GT model he drove here includes the Bilstein shocks and front strut tower as standard equipment. The only things it's missing compared to a Club Sport with the optional $4,500 Brembo/BBS package are the Brembo brakes (the need for which, or lack thereof, he discussed in the video), Recaro seats, and the BBS wheels. For street driving, as opposed to ten/tenths racing at the track or dedicated autocrossing, the GT version is identical to the standard Club Sport, and every bit as capable as the extra-cost Brembo/BBS version.
I drove an nd2 and gr86 back to back recently. I didn’t get the same conclusion. I prefer the inputs and overall engagement of the gr86 to the Miata (and I’ve owned 2 BRZs and 2 Miatas over the years - so I’m not coming in with bias) Light as the Miata is, I didn’t get that fun to drive factor in as much quantity as the gr86. Don’t get me wrong, both are terrific. I just left the Miata (admittedly a low mileage 2019 so it didn’t have the stability management system that entered the picture in 2022) wishing I loved it more than I did. Gr86 felt more organic and analog for lack of better descriptions. As for simple measures of power and torque to weight ratios….they are very similar (slight edge to the toyobaru)
Ya could have just used a club soft top and it would have been cheaper than the brz and the current Miata your testing with even lower weight and CG. While still keeping a better interior than the brz… so the real question is, is the brz for more money and weight better than a club soft top!?
Off topic but I love the ND. I have an AP2 but I think for daily driving the ND is way more fun. That being said it doesn't feel as special as an S2000 and on track I bet Id prefer the S2000 (Ive never tracked an ND)
Stiffer rear bar, maybe 10-15%? There is probably an adjustable option. Like all Miata, if you are a driver you need to upgrade the shock/springs. They been that way since 1989.
Anyone know how well the modern MX5 do in accidents? I know Mazda has some pretty good crash tests but anyone have any personal experiences or heard from other drivers? Any info is appreciated
It scored well in Euro and Australian tests. Rollover protection is pretty decent. Someone flipped on at the track with no roll bar and the A pillar held the car up, altho he got squished a bit. Keep in mind it's still a small and light convertible, which has inherent risks. As an owner who dailies mine, it's so small and light that it's genuinely able to avoid accidents that bigger and heavier cars wouldn't, and it's surprisingly stable despite the tossable personality.
I can put two Oru kayaks and kayaking gear in my brz. Take that Miata! Actually I really like the Miata. The aesthetics are really good on both, though I like the Miata better.
the Miata is like a good weekend car if your daily is some boring/heavy suv or crossover. Especially for the price the brz/86 is just a better overall package for having it as a single car, especially when it comes in 5k lower, it's very enticing. Like you said for canyon driving, the miata can't be beat. But the BRZ is just going to be a more enjoyable car over any road/weather, enjoyable as in useable and comfortable, not necessarily more fun. The chassis, looks, and fact that not every average joe has one, are what make me appreciate the brz/86 platform. The miata is more of a sleeper, or compact car that can be a hell of a fun grocery getter, not as serious. Like your closing point, the miata is the experience car, the on you'd choose as a rental on a trip with good driving roads, the brz is the better car to live with.
in my opinion both cars are the same, only thing brz beats miata is that you have little bit extra places where to put your stuff (the backseat for legless people)
Why do people still mention prices on cars still. As if that’s what the dealer is gonna actually promise you??? Like showing off that the BRZ is cheaper lmao they’re both pretty much gonna cost the same at the end over here in California. Or if you get lucky and actually find a legit person or dealer that’s true on the re sale. But that’s 1 out of 5 dealers lol and I’m only mentioning this is because every 86 was way more expensive than my fully loaded 2022 GT Miata like 7 G’s cheaper 😮
The Mazda, looks like a baby Ferrari and is much lighter with a much better suspension. Plus Subaru has a horrible history of engine problems. Currently dealing with a late model outback with 15k miles on the clock. Serviced only by the dealer, it's using a quart of oil every 400 miles. The owner is a 72 year old widow who purchased it new. Subaru does not consider the oil consumption excessive and will not repair it. Looks like lawyers are going to be involved. I would stay away from all Subaru's because of their lack of quality control.
You can't arbitrarily subtract features from the BRZ that the MX-5 has just to manufacture a larger price gap, while also inflating the price of the MX-5. That kind of unnecessary embellishment right out of the gate make me less inclined to even want to watch the video.
BRZ looks and sounds wayyy better. Closest S2K replacement money can buy. Now if only Honda would step its game up and start competing with Toyota/Subaru, Nissan and Mazda.
For the life of me i dont understand why reviewers compare the rf a more Expensive car to a brz when the miata starts at basically the dame price as the brz and the club at 31k or so is basically the price of the premium brz.. of course the miata isnt worth 35k duh! Hell i own one and wouldn’t pay more than 30k for It but why not Compare at leaat in the same price??
Because they mostly get press cars. Mazda would want to supply their highest trim model which in this case is the RF. Personally, although 35k is a lot, I'd happily pay the extra for the Miata over the BRZ/GR86 and I am saying that as someone who owns the GR86 and will be trading for a Miata
@@spartanV48 i mean yea the miata definitely has the quality and reliability and brz has the practicality personally i just couldn’t bring myself to buy the brz new for some reason but i was willing to spend under 20k for a decent used one but ppl were stupid and wanting closer yo 25k so they “pushed “ me to buy new lol
As someone who owns and dailies an RF, I find it way more fun to drive on the street than the twins. In track and autox it's much closer, but as a street car the Miata is just way more joyful. Roof down makes a huge difference in terms of slow car fast feel, and the car just feels light and free and easy to play around with in a way the twins don't for me. I'd say when driven hard they're a bit different in approach. In the Miata it's all about suspension and weight transfer, whereas the twins are more about slip angle and tires.
I definitely agree about the inputs. Interestingly the Miata has a looser ratio steering rack than the BRZ, yet for some reason it feels tighter to me. I think the car just rotates much more easily. Probably a combination of the double wishbones, shorter wheelbase, lower weight, and front-mid engine layout.
As for KPC, it's pretty subtle. I think there's a touch less flop during transitions compared to non KPC cars but even as someone who dailies a '21 it's hard to say. I actually rented a '22 and drove on some of the roads this video. There were a few funky things about that car, but it didn't seem to handle that different from mine.
That being said it's incredible what the BRZ/86 does for the price, combined with it's livability. Both these cars are really 1 of 1 in their segments.
KPC?
nvm i googled it
Tecnas when?
I’m 6’2 and fit in the Miata just fine. Where do people get this complaint? “I fit OK but tall people won’t even be able to sit down in it” I’m tall and I fit fine too.
My friend is 6’5 and fits in an NB although I think the ND is slightly smaller but yeah they aren’t bad…
Has to do with leg to torso ratio. I'm 6'2", w/ a 32" inseam, and I barely fit, but not comfortably at all, because my torso is long for my height. Legroom is fine, but from floor to the top of my head while seated it's 39", so ~1.5" taller than the rated headroom of 37.4".
When the original miata came out, I (6-2") could barely fit. Maybe that's why the complaints came in for it.
I test drove a Miata and it was all over. The shifter and utter lack of rev-hang sold me instantly.
going from my 2021 miata to GR86, i also noticed almost instantly that the GR86 had less steering feel which was odd because i thought my miata had kinda numb steering feel
The entire reason I currently own a MX5 Club is because no one wanted to sell the Twins for near MSRP and the places that did had roughly a 1 year waiting list. I went in looking for a RF but ended up with a soft top which after having done some top down drives I'm really happy with that decision (The lower weight being an additional plus.) The biggest weakness of the ND for sure is the soft suspension, I ended up going with RoadsterSport Springs and some Progress Sway Bars which has helped massively. The springs are better suited to the Bilstein dampers and the car just feels a lot more alert and sharp in general. Internal space does feel quite cramped, but once I'm actually driving it feels extremely comfortable and cozy driving it.
The biggest impression it's left on me is how good of an actual daily driver it is despite not seeming like it is. It rides well, it's not all that loud inside, and it's easy to park. The trunk and interior space is adequate for normal day to day usage, it won't do a Costco run. But if you're just shopping for 1/2 people it'll easily do it. But the biggest take away is the fuel economy, even playing with the rev band and having fun it's easy to do mid-30s to even high-30s going to work or running errands. The twins are gonna be a whole lot better as a single car solution due to trunk space, but I don't find myself all that limited just owning the MX5 in the end.
True that, I'm owning an rf for 3yrs now and over 47000miles 😁. At the end of September my new miata arrives, a softop gts, lighter, easyer put the top down. I can imagine driving another car
Gas milage on a rf is really 30 mpg and up while getting on it often?
@@anthonymoy4471 That's on my soft top, if I remember right an RF is slightly better for economy by like 0.5mpg. But the car itself is extremely economical even when hooning it about.
@@anthonymoy4471 I have a soft top 2016 nd1 and I use it to commute to work. Mostly highway. I have to try to get it to get less than 30mpg. I cannot confirm or deny a couple times of tripple digit speed (in Mexico ofcoarse)....for a few miles and stil getting 32 to 33. Drive with fuel in mind and easily get 36 to 37 cruise control set at 65 with flat ground
2020 RF GT very vigorous daily driving 12,000 mile average is 23 mpg.
40+ mpg cruising the highway at 70. It starts to drop above 70. Drops by 1 mpg with air conditioner on.
No replacement for nimbleness. 400 pounds lighter than the BRZ is more than enough for me to pick the mx5 over the brz. Cant wait
Get the soft-top Miata and that weight differential grows to more than 500 lbs, while also increasing the essential joy factor. The soft top also costs a lot less than the RF. Most importantly, the RF version simply does not offer the same open-air sensations as the standard Miata. It's a retractable targa top, not a true convertible. Look over either shoulder, you don't see mountains, ocean, sky, that VW Beetle full of flirty coeds, etc., the way you're supposed to when driving with the top down. Instead, you see nothing but a large, black obstruction; a plastic bucket filled with exposed brackets and bolts. Top down, the RF is also much noisier than the soft top, with dramatically noisier wind buffeting. The soft-top MX-5 is the true Miata experience; the classic small roadster, distilled to its unsullied convertible essence.
@@vlj1133 I really think the soft top feels more open is overblown. You probably spend 1% of your driving time looking behind you and during test drives it felt exactly like a convertible to me and the only time I ever noticed the pillars was double checking for blind spots. I never noticed or was affected by any wind buffeting. The RF looks better and more interesting subjectively and is more practical.
@@MadelnMachines Looks are subjective, obviously. I feel that the RF looks better than the soft top when the tops are up, but the soft top looks much better than the RF with the tops down. To put a finer point on it, why do people buy Miatas? To drive with the top up? There are far better, vastly more practical options out there for those who don't value the top-down experience. From its inception, the point of the Miata has always been to evoke the sporty image, carefree spirit, and wind-in-your-hair sensations of the classic British roadsters, which never had semi-enclosed targa tops. They were rag tops...true open-air convertibles. Their owners relished the full, unobstructed, 360-degree view of his or her surroundings.
Anyway, while looks are a matter of personal taste, these things are not subjective: weight, cost, speed, outward visibility, interior headroom, and wind buffeting. By every objective measure except for parking lot security and top-up decibel levels inside the cabin, the standard Miata beats the RF. In adding the retractable targa top, the RF cedes nearly every measurable advantage to its convertible sibling.
It is what is.
you can strip the twin down to 900'ish kg if you wanted. Sure, you can strip the MX5 down further, but the point is the twins can be made very nimble also, while still having a better chassis.
Yeah but can you fit?
I love my ND2 Miata, but tons of respect for BRZ/86. Very glad both exist
Zygrene I really appreciate your focus on detailed driving analysis. It is a gap in UA-cam and it is so interesting and insightful.
2021 Miata RF GT has been my daily driver for over a year now and I’m still in love with it. Not only is it phenomenal to drive as you mentioned it also beats the BRZ/86 in the fact that it is a convertible which is such a great feature when just going out on a fun drive to enjoy a beautiful day.
This was an honest unbiased review Fenton. Thanks for sharing.
I daily an RF. While I do wish it were a bit more practical - it is pure driving joy.
Im 6'1 160lbs, and I fit in the MX-5 perfectly. My brother is shorter than me and has a much harder time fitting in.
If you're looking at the miata, don't make a decision based on height until you've actually sat in it. Your proportions are gonna be more important than anything.
Also worth noting that the soft top has a bit more head room than the RF.
The biggest factors that made me go MX-5 were the lack of beeps and fake engine noise as well as lack of RTS/engine reliability problems that all are present in the GR86/BRZ...plus I love being able to remove the roof.
based. i dont buy the gr86 asthma hype
Great review....this is one of the better comparisons between the BRZ and the Miata on YT. The Miata is perfect as a second car you drive on the weekends.
Just fyi, because I know you often drive with traction control off, my understanding is that KPC and traction control are intrinsically linked on the 2022 ND2's. So, if you turn off TC, you're also turning off KPC--that might be why you didn't notice it doing much on your drive.
From my understanding, it's also based on wheel speed differentials rather than any kind of g-vectoring, so it doesn't actually activate until a certain threshold of wheel speed difference is detected between the inside and outside wheels.
I still want to tweak my car a bit, but I'm local, so some day I'd love for you to try out my ND2 setup on MCS 2-Ways and Karcepts bars to get your impressions. Getting everything upgraded for an inevitable HKS SC now that the ECU has been cracked and fueling solutions are being hammered out, so maybe sometime into next year if everything can be set up by then, funds and time permitting.
From the UK here. We don’t get the new BRZ here. I had a 2014 GT86. Now im looking for a fun car to buy and keep. GR/GR86, mx5 (180ps), s2000 maybe a cayman (na) The Mazda makes a lot of sense from a build and reliability perspective, also large numbers will make parts easier to but in 15-20 years time.
This will be a keeper for the garage, and a second car for Sundays and some road trips and track days.
Honestly so many opinions amd that's all it is. But for me owning both at one point or another and current roadster owner, probably stock for stock miata is better but on track the brz is clicked in right. But lightly modded and the roadster probably takes it on both street and track. Thoughts for sure but both are awesome machines 👏🏽
Things as a GR86 owner whom likes the mx5 want to say
1, I am 6ft 1 but surprisingly I have better seating position in the Mx5 than the gr86 of my one year owner ship
2, the mx5 is very very rev happy in daily traffic driving compared to the gr86, in the gr86, you don't need above 4k rpm due to the power/torque to catch up with traffic but in the mx5 u r going 5k rpm plus and it's so much fun!
3, even when u r driving the mx5 like u stole it, the MPG is still so much better than the gr86 by almost 50% .
4, Gr86 has large cargo space that the mx5 don't have which is a very very good plus for the car.
5, mx5 is softer than the gr86 but still feel like a thorough bread sports car like the 86.
6, mx5 LHD have a very uncomfortable hand brake lever but the gr86 has the handbrake on the correct side
I personally actually prefer the mx5 as a overall pure driver's car, but If you are concerned about the space, the gr86 is just such a fun car as well\
Both are 9/10 cars imo, no, loser here, all preference
This is a tough choice. Who'd a thought enthusiast would actually have a couple of solid rides in this day and age. For me, the BRZ wins as a performer that adds a lot of practicality. The Miata definitely requires a primary automobile.
Miata is fine as an only car.
@@oemj7147 🙄
@@oemj7147 I use a ZZW30 as an only car…I don’t see the need for more room unless you have kids.
My miata is fine as my only car :) Used to have a zzw30 as well, also worked fine.
@@mxdrives A friend of mine has an NC and he can fit 1 week of grocery for 3 person.
I’ve owned a NC1 and ND1 and s2k and now gr86.
Gr is a better daily when it comes to practicality and space. But engine is unreliable and shifter sucks, mpg sucks, at the track it feels very safe at the limit.
ND2 rotates a lot easier, has way better mpg for daily and you get drivers experience with top down. And is definitely scarier at the limit.
Had the NC, now BRZ, and i Will come back to Miata soon: it's funnier
Great review. As a ND2 Miata owner who tracks, I can tell you the brembo is good base setup to have but the pads they come with sucks very badly so not exactly out of the box track ready. The OEM pads with the brembo can't take heat.
I find the short wheel base not an issue for at the limits controllability. I took it drifting on frozen lake and find it pretty easy once I figured the steering feel.
Agree 100%, I have a nd1 brembo that I track occationally, once you do track pads and fluid, it can comfortably last a full 20min session.
@@Larkc-ty5sz Yes. What pads do you end up picking? I have hawk HP+ now
@@Driver67 ds2500 not extractlly full track focused but good enought for such a light car.
As a Miata guy, if I ever get the ND, it will be the RF (I already have full convertibles NA and NB). I can sacrifice BBS wheels and maybe the Brembo brakes, since I know I would upgrade at some point, but those Recaro seats are a MUST!! Specially if I can swap them to the NB!! 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
After about 5,000 miles in a 2020 GT RF I was very impressed with its grip up to the limits, but found the body roll trickier to manage than earlier Miatas. Stickier but trickier.
I beefed up the shock tower brace, swapped out springs for Goodwin Racing springs for the RF, and had the car realigned to track specs. The difference has been remarkable, especially for the limited expense and simplicity of the changes. The car really should have been sold this way. No significant detriment in ride quality and no more excessive body roll. And the car is back to the more familiar linear responses at the limits.
I later swapped out the original Bilstein B6s for B8s, but this was not really necessary except on the track. There are some great coilovers and stiffer anti sway bars, but I think those are only incremental improvements from my experience. Unless the car is mostly for track, in which case you’ll probably do that and more.
I have not driven the KPC. But it’s difficult for me to imagine the improvements would be better than new springs. On the other hand, what it reportedly corrects is exactly what I didn’t like about the stock set up.
For long term ownership, I would pick RF MX-5. Can't beat repairing a inline 4.
Great review! Seems like a fair and balanced review even though the reviewer owns the competing car. Good stuff!
My nd2 felt even better after an alignment which I doubt the press car has. After the rolls and sets it just grips.
The biggest difference I see? Way more smiles, giggles and laughter in the Miata. Almost none when you were in the Subaru.
Congrats on the first press car, Fenton! How about reaching out to Toyota for a MT Supra and Honda for a new Type R?
ND2 is a happy car to drive daily. 86/BRZ is more spacious and doesn't feel like a toy(compare to Miatas) ...but I need to drive one to find out.
Double wishbone front suspension wins the day!
GR-86 is for a fanboi who wants to put on a loud exhaust, bad tint job, and lower the car. The Miata RF is for anyone that appreciates driving excellence.
Yes, I agree because I own a Mazda Miata since 2013...... and have enjoyed this car so much.....it is my summer car... I also own a Miata TWO...... I bought it 3 years ago......!!!! My Miata is 2002.... in excellent condition.....they made wonderful cars very reliable.... and fun to drive.....!!!! BRAVO.... MAZDA.....!!!!
I own a GR86 and I used to drive my friend's Miata RF occasionally. I'll admit that the Miata was more fun than the GR86/BRZ and more reliable mechanically. The steering feel was better too. However, for my purposes, it was just too impractical. Can't load in my snowboard gear or guitar gear, not even close. Reviewers have said this but the twins are better for someone's only car and a Miata is really a secondary car for those who have a practical daily. An additional note that some people might not care about, but the Miata's infotainment is better too because the screen is in your line of sight however the speedometer is close to unreadable because the numbers are so squished together.
As someone who has had a stock 10AE miata and currently has a modified 2002 miata and driven both the new miata and the new brz/86, I would say that the miata is the "funner" car to drive forsure BUT.... not great for a daily, its best as a second car for fun. After some time when you eventually get numb to the driving feel, you start to wish the miata had just a little bit more room and was just a little bit quieter and had just a little extra space to take something like your wife + dog with you or something larger than 2 backpacks... and the perfect answer to that is the BRZ/86 and yet the compromise is minimal. Weight? Psh. For perspective, its less than an s2k. Its much better overall to live with and also would make a better track car too. Its heavier still, sure, but compared to everything else on the street, its still among the lightest cars on the road and by a large margin too. On top of that, its more aerodynamic than most sports cars which is actually a huge advantage for track builds over the miata and the larger engine displacement opens up the door to greater power and torque possibilities.
No lie, the new brz/86 is the only car I would sell my modified NB2 with 70k original miles, clean title and a fastback top. No other sports car would be a good exchange.
You’re comparing two different things. Miata is a pure sports car. It’s meant to have sacrifices and compromises. You’re critiquing it for being something it was not designed to be, which is a practical daily for hauling the wife and dog. If that’s what you’re after, you’ll find much better options than a BRZ on the market anyways.
You can’t knock the Miata for being impractical and not having cargo space. That’s like criticizing a fish for trying to swim.
@@donjohnson2428 dont get me wrong. I think you might be thinking that I don't understand what these cars are for. Understandable, as I didnt give all the details of my life and background with sports cars but im not against either car as I love both and I am an owner of a miata myself and I love it. The only thing I am saying is that the miata, as a true pure sports car, is meant to do pure sports car things, which I do often, but if you're not doing sports car things, then the miata gets left in your garage because you dont have a choice. Its a purpose-built car so using it even as a daily starts wearing you down if you try to use it for non-sports car things. Thats why I said its best when its your side car.
I have my cozy 4 door for when im taking the wife and dog with me somewhere. BUT, there are many times I want to take the miata and take my wife and dog to the beaches of california. The hills are curvy and a lot of fun to drive here, perfect sports car roads, but since there is nowhere to take the dog(or just beach supplies for 2 people such as two foldable chairs dont fit in an NB but a very SMALL ice chest can though, and extra clothes and you've maxed out your cargo space), I have to ditch the car and take the 4door. So that sucks because im missing out on the drive there. The BRZ solves that issue because, even though the car is still very small, you have just a little extra space to take beach supplies or a dog(possibly both).
So im just saying that a BRZ is for people who want to use their sports car and take a few things with them somewhere. The miata is when you go out specifically for the drive itself.
Anyone who’s ever driven an ND knows the answer to the inferred question. Current 2019 GT RF owner. What an engineering marvel
So I'm Toyota guy at heart. But I'm also a Mazda guy. I'd prefer a FD or a supra. And working for Toyota as a salesman the 86 is boring. I didn't get to drive a new but an older TRD 86 with a manual, actually got to drive it for about 4 hours. And me being 6'4" it wasn't to bad. It did get a lot of looks. But it was boring. Tried drifting it a couple times. And it would just lose traction just a tiny bit. Even in track mode. I don't understand how these are considered drift cars. My old 96 V6 step side is a way better "drift" car and seemed more powerful then the 86.
I haven't drove a new Miata, couldn't fit in NA.
But I'd chose the Miata because it's simply easier to work on. Flat 4's are the deal breaker for me
Did you drive the Miata with TC fully off? If you did, then that deactivates the KPC.
I own a ND2 non KPC and a 17' BMW M2, I agree, at the limit, you have to pay attention, since once the front loads or the car is leaning on one side, it doesn't take much to throw it in oversteer.
the M2 is a peach at 10/10, lot more predictable at the limit / sliding.
Just two different tools for different jobs.
Love both.
Awesome review as always Fenton. Have driven ND1 but curious to give ND2 a spin after seeing this
Do it!
Having driven both, the ND2 does have a pretty different character. It sold me on the Miata when the ND1 didn't quite do it for me.
This is no contest. Haven't seen the video yet and I can say...the Miata is designed for a better driving experience since 1989. Also someone already did a track video with the old BRZ vs Miata and the Miata still pulled ahead there too. A 2016 Miata would rival this one as well. One thing you have to do is change the suspension on the Miata 2016 to current. Its known the suspension is soft.
Great review. I wanted to trade my ND for the new BRZ but getting a new car these days is a nightmare...
Absolute nightmare, I would just hold off man, plus the ND is a great car anyways :)
Why would u downgrade? Unless u need more space, the brz is worst in every way.
I'd have loved to have an MX-5 but it is just too small for me, at 6' and 250 lb. But I really don't feel that the BRZ has been a compromise, it's just as much fun as my brother's MX-5 with added practicality that allows it to do everything I need my car to do. Here in Australia, the RF is also considerably more expensive, around US$5,000 more.
Having test driven a base ZD8 BRZ and a pre-KPC Grand-touring ND2 RF, I'd like to share some maybe not so interesting thoughts haha.
I didn't feel huge differences in steering response (didn't push too much in test drives), but I'd say BRZ has a faster rack than the Miata. I remember the last gen BRZ had a steering ratio of 13:1 (don't know if the new one is still the same), and Miata has 15.x:1. In my test drives, I remember BRZ really turned with very little steering input, whereas Miata needed a bit more input to turn. Not to mention BRZ's steering has nearly zero dead zone. Both cars have really nice small turn radii.
Shifter and clutch: Miata wins hands down, and is also a lot more forgiving, which is a blessing for a beginner like me.
Stock brake pedal feel was very short and stiff for the BRZ. Miata's felt normal, nothing too special.
I didn't feel BRZ's throttle response was too bad in my test drive, but I've seen many videos on how terrible it is, so I think I'll get a throttle controller [e.g.: Max Orido's 感度 (kando) Max throttle controller] as one of my first mods for my incoming GR86.
I actually find the Miata's steering feels tighter despite it's les sensitive ratios. I think for little corrections the BRZ is sharper but the Miata rotates a lot more easily and has a stronger front end, so I don't feel like i'm turning the wheel as hard in corners.
Why just compare the "driving" aspect of it? The whole point of the MX-5 is the convertible aspect of it. The MX-5 is definitely not as rigid and a bit slower, but if you want a convertible experience, you're not going to get it from the 86 no matter what. If you care for straight line speed, both of these cars are not fast, so no one is going to pick the 86 over the MX-5 just because it's a tiny bit faster. The shifter in the MX-5 is much crisper and there's no rev hang so it's a better driving feel in that regard. Suspensions is among the cheapest and easiest to mod as well, so it's not difficult to eliminate the body roll on the MX-5. It's much harder to change out for a better transmission, shifter, steering feel, throttle feel etc.
Think you've answered your own question there. No point comparing that way because if you want the convertible experience that's going to solve which to get surely
If your going to take your MX-5 to the track (and it's only the stock RF that would be legal there) you should change your brake fluid to a high temperature version regardless of whether you have the Club or non-Club version. If you boil your stock brake fluid, you will fail. Problem with this presentation. The 2022 did have KPC, but when you disable the dynamic traction control the KPC is also disabled. I'm guessing this guy didn't realize the connection when he notes more roll than expected at @11:30 . (I'm not sure whether they separated the two disabling controls in the 2023 or 2024 models.)
Why not compare it to the Club RF? Its more sporty with the upgraded shocks and brembo brakes?
A sports car without at least a removable sun roof is a full stop for me, score big for the MX5 in either flavor. I have had a 2020 ND2 GT RF and now a 2022 ND2 GT ST with the new KPC. Yes, the KPC may help reduce roll in some small amount, but on a track or autocross you will have that feature turned off. The MX5 is soft on bottom and has generous suspension travel making driving on real roads comfortable, the compromise is a little bit of body roll. Easy enough to reduce at the expense of ride quality if so desired.
BTW, I am 5-11, 175 pounds and I fit just fine in the Miata even for long days in the saddle and neither the seat adjustments or the steering wheel adjustments are at limits. If comfort is what one wants then get an SUV. If one wants a real sports car then get the MX5.
Makes me want to go out and drive a Miata.
Hope you understand that you’ll be compelled to buy one if you do . Congrats ?? ;-)
Miata
Is
Always
The
Answer
😊
The answer is always Miata!
A traditional way to drive in a momentum style is to use minimal braking early and hit the accelerator on corner entry this way you get little body roll on the MX5. Also because you get more g force you need to push into the foot rest and headrest due to the lack of lateral seat support and keep the hands on the wheel light, all traditional stuff and good fun, you also carry way more speed. This was the original use of the foot rest in racing. But once you commit you don't really want to lift off mid corner can get messy.
If only the brz had a hardtop convertible...
Ive heard that when you turn traction control off it also disable the KPC mode.
As an owner if both. I can relay that if I could only have one I'd stay with the brz. The practical aspect is perfect for 1 car and in terms of performance it feels more serious. Miata Is joyful and playful but not at all practical. It's difficult to even have a backpack without using the trunk
wvery time i watch videos about potential replacements for my old celica (with a Beams swap and full aftermarket suspension) i'm left underwhelmed. new cars all try to artificially create the "directness" that old cars have built-in
I was set on an MX5 until we took it out for a test drive and there wasn't room in the passenger side footwell for my wife and her purse (and this was a fairly small purse). This was a deal killer for both of us, which was a bummer as my wife really liked the MX5 as well. But one of the purposes was for it to be something we could do shorter road trips with. So ultimately it came down to the first gen 86 or a Supra with the 86 winning out.
I hate that
Really good review of the 2 cars. Been thinking about buying another miata. For sure a ND. Most likely the rf. I work outside, get pleanty of ☀️.
Owned a 90, 92 autocross car, and a 93le. All moddified slightly to go fast, and handle. Outstanding cars!
The body roll of the stock nd wouldnt work for me. Sounds like a good cure is the ohlin coilovers. Around $3000 for those and proper exhaust. Think maybe a used one would be best for me.
Current car is a 2019 mustang Bullitt with magnaride. Also has ford racing suspension upgrade with a flash for the computer. Works. Very fast car in the corners. Just needs to go on a diet, loose weight😂
Great review. Thanks
The Mx5 is better I don’t even have to watch the video.
Is your BRZ lowered? Some angles it looks like is, to me. It looks real good with the Enkeis.
Great that Mazda provided a press car. A soft top ND2 Club as a fun car would be an awesome Sunday car, they do seem to be holding value on the used car market (like most cars!)
Great video! I am actually trying to pick between GR86/BRZ, Miata and the new BMW230i for a weekend and occasional track car.
Would love to hear your thoughts on the BMW if you have ever driven one!
While I will always love the MX-5 after owning two NDs, Mazda has priced the ND MX-5 too high. A base GR86/BRZ simply offers better value to the enthusiast with some important standard features like the LSD. By the time you add the package to get the LSD in the MX-5, it's price is significantly more than the GR86/BRZ.
The soft top MX-5 with BBS wheels and Bilstein shocks is a cut above the MX-5 you are discussing here.
The GT model he drove here includes the Bilstein shocks and front strut tower as standard equipment. The only things it's missing compared to a Club Sport with the optional $4,500 Brembo/BBS package are the Brembo brakes (the need for which, or lack thereof, he discussed in the video), Recaro seats, and the BBS wheels. For street driving, as opposed to ten/tenths racing at the track or dedicated autocrossing, the GT version is identical to the standard Club Sport, and every bit as capable as the extra-cost Brembo/BBS version.
Great comparison. I am considering both. I love the Miata, but I just can't seem to get comfortable in it.
I drove an nd2 and gr86 back to back recently. I didn’t get the same conclusion. I prefer the inputs and overall engagement of the gr86 to the Miata (and I’ve owned 2 BRZs and 2 Miatas over the years - so I’m not coming in with bias)
Light as the Miata is, I didn’t get that fun to drive factor in as much quantity as the gr86. Don’t get me wrong, both are terrific. I just left the Miata (admittedly a low mileage 2019 so it didn’t have the stability management system that entered the picture in 2022) wishing I loved it more than I did.
Gr86 felt more organic and analog for lack of better descriptions.
As for simple measures of power and torque to weight ratios….they are very similar (slight edge to the toyobaru)
Mazda is waay more reliable
Ive an early ND I love it and am looking at getting a BRZ/GT86 thanks for the review
Excellent review!
For me having a topdown convertible is a big plus. I’ll choose the MX5
Regular convertible or RF?
@@3rdRockRider I chose the regular over the RF
@@3rdRockRider Regular convertible is a better top down experience over the RF, but the RF is a better top up experience for sure
I prefer the RF for it’s security, lot’s of theft and vandalism these days.
If you buy a convertible it needs to be full roof down that's why I sold my detachable hardtop on my Mx5
Price delta is so much because you got the top trim of MX5...I got my Club MX5 for $30000...
You can turn off the KPC by turning off traction control. The car is much faster on the track without TC and KPC.
good comparison vid 👍
I fully realize I'm talking apples and oranges, but how do you compare a current GTI for canyon driving with the Miata RF?
Why you get the RF the soft top will be much better for driving dynamic
Can you post the stock alignment specs for the brz/86?
the miata is a good car kinda considering one but the brz/86 still wins my heart
Do you have any issues with wind buffeting on the BRZ? A lot of forum members on ft86 and gr86 say above 50mph and on track it's near unbearable...
Ya could have just used a club soft top and it would have been cheaper than the brz and the current Miata your testing with even lower weight and CG. While still keeping a better interior than the brz… so the real question is, is the brz for more money and weight better than a club soft top!?
Off topic but I love the ND. I have an AP2 but I think for daily driving the ND is way more fun. That being said it doesn't feel as special as an S2000 and on track I bet Id prefer the S2000 (Ive never tracked an ND)
Those Subaru boxer engines are grenades.
02:03 what's that "beep beep beep!"?
Can you turn off the shift up beep? 😢
How do you think you could make the miata more tail happy and is that likely to have any negative consequences on the other driving dynamics?
Easy fix. Buy harder compound tires.
Stiffer rear bar, maybe 10-15%? There is probably an adjustable option. Like all Miata, if you are a driver you need to upgrade the shock/springs. They been that way since 1989.
Anyone know how well the modern MX5 do in accidents? I know Mazda has some pretty good crash tests but anyone have any personal experiences or heard from other drivers? Any info is appreciated
It scored well in Euro and Australian tests. Rollover protection is pretty decent. Someone flipped on at the track with no roll bar and the A pillar held the car up, altho he got squished a bit. Keep in mind it's still a small and light convertible, which has inherent risks. As an owner who dailies mine, it's so small and light that it's genuinely able to avoid accidents that bigger and heavier cars wouldn't, and it's surprisingly stable despite the tossable personality.
Mazda will also be much more reliable. The space in the Miata kills it and the gr86 will be a better daily car.
The Miata is definitely better
Both are amazing cars.
Rev hang no good. Miata is super responsive and connected. Nice comparison
Sure looks like Mines Road east of Livermore, CA to me. If so, an awesome canyon driving road
I can put two Oru kayaks and kayaking gear in my brz. Take that Miata! Actually I really like the Miata. The aesthetics are really good on both, though I like the Miata better.
Oh yeah? I uhh… uhhh…. I can fit a small potted tree in the passenger seat of my Miata with the roof down. Take that!
@@KenColton This would be a fun scene.
I fit an 8-ft ladder in the my Miata no cap
He says the Miata interior is more premium? I did not get that feel from watching this video. Brz looked a lot better
the Miata is like a good weekend car if your daily is some boring/heavy suv or crossover. Especially for the price the brz/86 is just a better overall package for having it as a single car, especially when it comes in 5k lower, it's very enticing. Like you said for canyon driving, the miata can't be beat. But the BRZ is just going to be a more enjoyable car over any road/weather, enjoyable as in useable and comfortable, not necessarily more fun. The chassis, looks, and fact that not every average joe has one, are what make me appreciate the brz/86 platform. The miata is more of a sleeper, or compact car that can be a hell of a fun grocery getter, not as serious. Like your closing point, the miata is the experience car, the on you'd choose as a rental on a trip with good driving roads, the brz is the better car to live with.
miata is always the answer.
unless you're like 6 feet or taller
in my opinion both cars are the same, only thing brz beats miata is that you have little bit extra places where to put your stuff (the backseat for legless people)
Brz you can't take the top off
@@JihelJay personally i wouldnt want to take the top off anyways... :)
@@prospect2664 both car are not the same, the cab is a huge diff, that is my point
@@JihelJay and yet the video is comparing the car....
@@prospect2664 ofc, bc you can compare different things. There is no point in comparing two identical things.
Ngl you are starting to sound dumb lol
This shows how ND2 suspension behaves when cornering hard: ua-cam.com/video/ekHjedIp5R4/v-deo.html
Why do people still mention prices on cars still. As if that’s what the dealer is gonna actually promise you??? Like showing off that the BRZ is cheaper lmao they’re both pretty much gonna cost the same at the end over here in California. Or if you get lucky and actually find a legit person or dealer that’s true on the re sale. But that’s 1 out of 5 dealers lol and I’m only mentioning this is because every 86 was way more expensive than my fully loaded 2022 GT Miata like 7 G’s cheaper 😮
The Mazda, looks like a baby Ferrari and is much lighter with a much better suspension. Plus Subaru has a horrible history of engine problems. Currently dealing with a late model outback with 15k miles on the clock. Serviced only by the dealer, it's using a quart of oil every 400 miles. The owner is a 72 year old widow who purchased it new. Subaru does not consider the oil consumption excessive and will not repair it. Looks like lawyers are going to be involved. I would stay away from all Subaru's because of their lack of quality control.
Just buy an NB Mx5 softop more fun to drive costs less no vvt to worry about or info systems
You can't arbitrarily subtract features from the BRZ that the MX-5 has just to manufacture a larger price gap, while also inflating the price of the MX-5. That kind of unnecessary embellishment right out of the gate make me less inclined to even want to watch the video.
BRZ looks and sounds wayyy better.
Closest S2K replacement money can buy.
Now if only Honda would step its game up and start competing with Toyota/Subaru, Nissan and Mazda.
idk about sounding better lol and its not a convertable.
The ND improves a lot with an exhaust, but it's very inline 4 sounding. IMO with Soul Red the RF is better looking. It's really special in person.
Honda will never build high revving NA engines again. There will never be a real S2K replacement. Get one while you can.
Buy 1 lease 1 this comparison is to similar but both great afford sports cars imo
A ecu tune and the rev hang will get better
@Volkan never did on previous cars
@@anthonymoy4471 it absolutely does lol
people just flash back to stock before they take it to a dealer
For the life of me i dont understand why reviewers compare the rf a more
Expensive car to a brz when the miata starts at basically the dame price as the brz and the club at 31k or so is basically the price of the premium brz.. of course the miata isnt worth 35k duh! Hell i own one and wouldn’t pay more than 30k for
It but why not
Compare at leaat in the same price??
I guess the hard top seems more comparable for a coupe? TBH a lot of the differences between the 2 cars would be apparent with either top.
@@KZcheese but price though that trumps all also the majority are softopm
Because they mostly get press cars. Mazda would want to supply their highest trim model which in this case is the RF. Personally, although 35k is a lot, I'd happily pay the extra for the Miata over the BRZ/GR86 and I am saying that as someone who owns the GR86 and will be trading for a Miata
@@spartanV48 i mean yea the miata definitely has the quality and reliability and brz has the practicality personally i just couldn’t bring myself to buy the brz new for some reason but i was willing to spend under 20k for a decent used one but ppl were stupid and wanting closer yo 25k so they “pushed “ me to buy new lol
Haven't watched the video but most definitely 86.