and this is where mazda got lost, well, especially in Indonesia, they dont sell the convertible and stick shift version. that sucks, they rape the enjoyment of having a miata.
It seems like both of these cars force you to keep the revs up in the power band, so both cars force you to be a better driver then in something like a Mustang GT or something with gobs of horsepower. Something a lot of people can't do so they complain about lack of power.
That drone work at 7:25... wow. You'r production quality in the past year has grown so very much. I have to say, I appreciate everything you guys do! Nice cars too...
+H0okemh0rns Body roll doesn't = bad handling. Especially on the street and in low speed corners a soft suspension setup can handle better than a stiff suspension set up.
+Doctor Ferdinand Exactly. I usually like their reviews, but they keep coming back to how much stiffer the frs is. Of course it is, its sprung harder, so it rides shittier as well. Compliance doesn't mean slower, but people think stiff= sporty=speed=better, when in reality stiff=less compliance=less grip on bad roads and worse ride=faster until you have really sticky tires.
+saygmo When you say "stiff"the FRS is still very soft compared to other "performance" cars. :) It rolls less because it has a low centre of gravity because of the boxer engine.
+jo23bulls Things to do when you get each car: Miata: leave it alone and know you're a secure and sexy person BRZ/FRS: attract the attention of other men
+Doctor Ferdinand the MotorTrend comparison spoke nicely to this. The Miata performed better, but the drivers preferred the BRZ. I heard the same thing in Paul & Todd's notes: the Miata can tackle the roads perfectly fine; the BRZ just feels better doing it.
Another great video guys, these are always really fun to watch. I'm pro-Mazda, but I appreciate you guys going through not only the dynamics of the cars strengths/weaknesses, but also trying to understand what the companies were actually trying to do with their cars based on their performance level.
I’ve been watching Everyday Driver videos for quite a while now and I generally enjoy them! I like the commentary and perspective that you guys bring to the table. With that said, I can’t say I concur with a few of the major stipulations in this video: 1. You’re reviewing a Miata with the top UP! You readily admit that convertibles are more fun with the top down and then refuse to lower the top. You’re missing the point of a roadster. For the money that these cars demand, there are faster cars out there, but these two are meant for FUN! In that, by not lowering the Miata’s top you’re taking away its party piece and one of the prime reasons people actually buy them: roadsters are fun! It’s hard to replicate having the wind in your hair and the sunlight touching your face on a nice day! You have just ignored the primary reason that the Miata exists. It’s a lot like saying “I’m dating a supermodel, but I don’t want to ever look at her”; sure, she could be great at a lot of other things, but you’re missing the main attraction. 2. As mentioned multiple times above: you didn’t bring the Club edition! Seriously? You’re reviewing these cars on the premise of their sporting intentions and you neglected the bring the car with the sporty options (LSD, slightly stiffer Bilstein suspension, strut tower brace, optional lighter BBS wheels & Brembo brakes, ect). Instead you brought the LEAST sporty version of the car- the Launch Edition, which is essentially the GT package. I say least sporty because at least the base model/Sport package is lighter than the GT/LE. You claimed to be comparing the driving dynamics of these vehicles and yet you brought the fat-cat version of the Miata rather than the version intended for more serious driving. Yes, the Club still has body roll, but I don’t think many will argue that it’s not the more appropriate version to bring to a test of sporting intentions. I saw a comment above that the Launch Edition was the only Miata available to you at the time and I’m sure that might be true. In that case, you should have considered waiting for a Club in order to give the Miata a fair sporting chance. I understand that Todd owns an FR-S and while you guys are trying hard to mask that bias, it’s still there.
+roninsoldier83 - We're very glad to have you with us and enjoying what we do! We agree that people aren't going to buy a MX5 if they don't want a convertible. Excellent point, and good analogy. However, we left the top up to allow us to focus more on the dynamics and not the top down experience. In our upcoming all-4-generations Miata film we are top-down all the time. Speaking of dynamics, yes, it would have been preferable to have a club model. However, as we've said, the Club model wasn't available from the Press fleet or in the entire State of Utah at the time of our shoot. It was less the ideal for this comparison, but perfect for the all-4-gen version where none of the cars are a club spec. Vs. the FRS - every outlet we've seen that put the Club model against the FRS/BRZ has mentioned the inherent softeness of the Club model as well. The specs of that version suggest that it will feel like a focused sports car, and yet that's not the conclusions we've seen. This generation MX5 is purposely softer. Finally - while you can easily accuse Todd of bias if you like, Paul steadily seems to likes the FRS less as time goes by. Plus, everyone on set with us (including the Miata owner... who has owned multiple cars and many Miatas) preferred the driving dynamics of the FRS in back to back driving. All that to say - thank you for your thoughts here. We read them all, and we welcome them. We appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment!
+EverydayDriver Have you tried to get a hold of the Club model to test since? I drove the UK equivalent spec cars and absolutely hated the softer version (a lot more than you guys did). I couldn't see past that body roll and wrote the car off. Thankfully I test drove the spec with Bilsteins et all and bought one. needless to say I thought the difference was significant.
+Manseung Ha yup - called them out on this on their economy hatchbacks. they scoffed and told me 'nooooo, we're trying to pick the most enjoyable one to drive everyday'
+Manseung Ha "Everyday Driver provides entertaining and informative car reviews of great vehicles real people can afford." To me "everyday" implies that it's not an exotic or uberclassic or something else you wouldn't drive around all the time.
I drive an MX-5 as my everyday car. These cars are affordable enough to buy, run and maintain for an average person. The only significant issue is lack of storage and seats. As a single man, these aren't issues for me. I can fit my weekly shopping in the boot and I rarely have a passenger, let alone two. So for my circumstances - which aren't rare - the MX-5 *is* an everyday car.
+Manseung Ha What are you talking about? I could totally see driving either of these cars every day. As it stands I DD a Fiesta ST which is stiffer than both, and roughly the same speed on track.
Great reviews guys. I really like how your getting more and more conversational - you guys have done such a great job with your "brand" i think people will enjoy the natural interaction just like the podcasts. I am looking forward to you guys testing the Club model indeed.
let's get one thing completely straight. Miata has not "grown softer." It has never been hard edged. The miata is the purest version of a sports car currently made, and it has been for 25 years. It's also proven to be faster than the FRS/BRZ. Miata gets my vote.
+Mathew Brady - Yes, we agree that the Miata has never been focused on a hardcore setup. However, we have a review of all four generations coming. Driving all of them back to back is something most people (and journalists) haven't done and we found the realizations quite surprising. We look forward to sharing that with you.
+EverydayDriver Actually really excited about that! I have an NA8 right now and I'll be getting either a 2nd,3rd, or 4th gen when I'm out of college. I'd love to see a comparison on them all! At the moment I'm thinking NB or NC.
+Mathew Brady I agree completely, the Miata has always had a softer suspension setup since it was first introduced for the 1990 model year. From what I understand, this was done for many reasons, such as to better emulate the 60s era sports cars that inspired the Miata (Elan, MGB, TR4, etc.) in the first place. Also with a short wheelbase, a firm suspension can be punishing on rough pavement. A softer suspension also helps to minimize the chassis flexing that is inherent in a convertible. Regardless of why Mazda chose a relatively softer suspension, it should be noted that the stock Miata is still faster around a circuit than the twins, despite the fact that the Miata has 40 fewer bhp. To me, this indicates that the Miata suspension has been better tuned than the twins' suspension. And consider this, if the Miata is faster than the twins despite the fact that it has a softer stock suspension, then imagine how much potential the Miata will have with upgraded aftermarket components.
People complaining about 150 hp make me seriously mad. I have a later NA with 90hp and within a year of owning it there has not been a single moment I thought that I needed more power. Stop talking numbers and actually drive a car.
Thanks Toyota and Subaru for giving us a real hardcore coupe as an option. Mx5 checks some people’s boxes. Mainly 50 year old middle Class men. I bought the brz cause it’s the perfect purist car. Rwd, hard top coupe. A lot of cars sold as sporty now are are just altered economy cars. Like the GTi & civic Si. Etc etc.
Really loved this video guys. Production value has always been high, but this one- the editing, scenery, music- was all a step up. Keep up the great work, and thanks for making Fridays so much fun.
Best comparison between these two cars ever, the different characteristics are worked out perfectly and correspond to my own experiences. Great thank you!!
4:59 You want more power because your roads are too big, lol. Put that same car in Asia or Europe and you will quickly realise both cars have plenty enough power. Also, keeping momentum in lightweight, low power is in its self a skill and a fun one to get right too.
If all you're comparing is driving dynamics, then you guys pretty much nailed it. The FR-S is a sharper car, plain and simple. But the elephant in the room is the convertible top. And it's the reason these two cars can't really be compared. They are wholly different animals. The FR-S is the low priced track weapon, designed to connect driver to car to road in the most direct means possible for $25k. The MX-5 is the one that takes the driving experience to a whole other level when the top is down. It's not only about the driver to car to road relationship, although that is an important part of the equation. It's about seeing, feeling, hearing and smelling the entire world around you while delighting in the drive that's taking you through it. It's the difference between seeing a movie on a 25' color T.V. and seeing it in IMAX 3D. The FR-S is a fantastic car, and if the MX-5 didn't exist, I would happily plunk my money down for one. But that convertible top adds so much more to the driving experience. I'm willing to give up a bit of sharpness to experience the drive in ways you just can't in a car with a fixed roof.
the Miata character has always include some body roll. motor trend have compared these cars, and the Miata have won in every category. this review is very bias for the frs. The Miata's quicker acceleration, better interior, faster corner speed, shorter braking was not enthused? the top down driving experience was just waived off? All other channels I've seen favor the Miata by a large margin.
+Quang Lam I feel the same way about other being biased. lol I'm not sure if they are stuck on it being new so it has to be good or that it can drop it's top or what. The more I drove the MX-5 the more I didn't care for it. It is a great car and I would still recommend it to people because you can have a blast in it but for how I like to drive (and for my height) the FR-S/BRZ was the way to go.
+Quang Lam - Since you've seen the MotorTrend comparo (which even used the more aggressive Club version) then we're sure you noticed they called out the Mx5 as feeling less precise and having a disappointing amount of Body roll. That's the same conclusion we came to. The better specs for the MX5 in that same video (as well as the track tests we've seen) are close enough to be argued as the difference between the MX5s good performance tires vs. the low-grip tires on the FRS/BRZ from the factory. Without having the same tires, it's hard to tell for sure. We've been surprised how few reviewers have mentioned that possibility. We've seen plenty of other commentary, and the body-roll concern is present in all of it. Instrumented testing is great, but we focus on feel, not specs. As far as the top goes - as mentioned, we know top down can be influential, so we left it up while testing it against a coupe. Having said that, we've got a review of all four generations of the MX5 in the process, and there it was top-down all the way. Thanks for watching and commenting!
+EverydayDriver The Miata is alway intended to have body roll, that's it's DNA. That's easily fix by replacing lowering spring or sway bars. 0.5 second faster in the 1/4-mile is a huge margin. You can't fix that with tires. My Nc miata is still 0.1 second faster. The Miata has the lightweight advantage which is big and hard to fix. Every enthusiast know that. Braking and fuel economy, and track time are better too. Motortrend test all these, and the Miata won them all. It's a land slide. Other Channel like the Redline Review favor the MX-5 too. The topless aspect is huge for me and a lot of other people. Normally, there's a $4000 premium for a convertible. You can't just dismiss that. One could easily dismiss the body roll then. That's the only thing the FR-S have, but have a slower lap time.
+Quang Lam - We would never have a car win because of faster 0-60 or 1/4 stats, but those are industry standard tests. Lap times are intriguing, but as we mentioned, the ND and FRS have been so close in all the timed lap tests we've seen that tires really could be the deciding factor if both cars had matching sets. Now, if the deciding factor is a convertible, then there's no choice here as the MX5 will always win. We hope you noticed that both cars got high ratings in this comparison. We found the FRS more enjoyable to drive. Others may not. It comes down to driving preference at some point (which the guys discussed at the end of the film). We sincerely hope you'll get the chance to drive both them back to back and decide for yourself. Thanks for your thoughts.
+EverydayDriver Small margin? These are large Margin. In Motortrend's comparo, the MX-5 got well over 1 second better lap time. Tires can't fix that. Who's to say that the tires on the MX-5 is any better than the FR-S. The MX-5 has a lot of better attributes. I have test drove the FR-S in 2013, and I hated the interior. The center knobs are small, feel like cars from the 1990's Era. I didn't buy it and bought the Mazdaspeed 3 for better performance at a lower price. Bottom line is that the FR-S is way out class here. The MX-5 also offer many other feathers like the MMI controller with a better screen like that found in Audi cars. But lightweight is the best attribute. You can't find any car under $40K that 2300 lbs.
Perhaps you guys would have found the Club model to be a better competitor to the FRS? It's a bit more stiffer, better brakes (optional), LSD, a little lighter, even less expensive :)
Chance Hales hey, that gives you guys a chance to make another comparison. The real deal this time. I won't complain about more Miata vs FRS content :P
Is it just me or do they contradict themselves in every sentence? Guy; the Miata is a very track capable car, but then again not really. Other guy; you could really push this car if you wanted to, but you just don't want to. God damn their reviews are hard to watch
ok... I agree with their pick. They want the MX5 to be more performance oriented. I wanted that too. I dream all the time about strapping a turbo or supercharger onto this mazda add a better wheel/tire package and work the suspension and brakes. However I think they defeated the point of this car at the beginning of the video by saying they would not drop the top. Dropping the top is the point of the Miata. It is about cruising with a bit of zip but without the harshness of stuff suspension and neck snapping burnouts. It is a hey look at me and my wife taking a date night out away from our teenagers kind of car.
As a 2015 BRZ owner and I love the Miata. I will always see it as a gender car. The Miata is a true ladies car, the BRZ/FRS is a mans car. Sorry, just expressing my view guys. Love your show. The wife hates the BRZ but she loves the Miata. Iconic
I currently own both the BRZ and am on my second ND1 MX5. BRZ is trash compared to the ND and even the NC. Hence my BRZ is for sale. I wouldn't not recommend the BRZ as a daily on normal roads. And If I wanted to track it, I would still prefer to have the softer ND platform. Or just add a Front Sway Bar and Coilovers if you have the money. BRZ only wins for passenger legroom and overall practicality (you can bring tyres/tools in the car for the track day). Now the ND2, that just blows everything out of the water. I cannot wait for them to depreciate so I can eventually upgrade.
You two are the best down to earth car reviewers and my favorite car review show. You guys tell everyone all about what actually matters about the cars people might be interested in. Todd if you're ever in the Portland Oregon area and would like to drive my supercharged BRZ, I'd be more than happy to let you flog it around.
Miata Club supporters, don't forget it adds $3500 to the MSRP, to $28600. These guys, in their S2000 review, called it "taut, incredibly sharp," which I think is the key difference in approach between the ND and the S. The S feels like a cat walking on its claws, a feeling I loved when I tested it. At around $20k for a clean low-mile AP2, it's a great value up against the ND.
as much as i like the s2k, good luck finding one under 15k that hasnt been either wrecked or doesnt have 120k miles. the only worse honda to find is a bone stock ITR. unicorns are nice for bench racing, but its not really a fair comparison.
Alot of people seem to have wanted the MX5 to just destroy the FRS and for every reviewer to say the same thing. Personally I am in the FRS corner, never have been a convertible fan and I feel the FRS better follows the formula of a sportscar. Nice to see the new MX5 smaller and ligher in the age of every new generation being larger, heavier and slower but convertibles have never been sporty to me, always felt liker cruisers. A coupe on the other hand, that's where it's at
+Garrick Merrill Actually, it's usually pretty difficult to even see the drone while we are shooting these shots. I was driving the BRZ for all the drone shots and only remember seeing the drone once. But yeah, when I saw that particular shot it almost looks like it bounced off the roof of the FR-S!
You guys have some of the best production values and somehow the subscribers haven't gotten there yet. Keep up the vids and podcasts. This year has been great for content.
The problem with "road feel" that so many purists complain about is that America has terrible roads for the most part. Most of the roads in my area, including many highways, are a nightmare of nooks, crannies, bumps, and potholes. Why would I want to feel that? Mazda was right in making the suspension compliant. People don't want to be beat up when they drive their car.
+Kev erino There are amazing roads where I live, and streets filled with potholes in the city nearby. If not for the stiff suspension and manual transmission, I would be bored out of my mind in the city. Every drive is an adventure.
There is another comparison review on UA-cam of these 2 cars where they look at the quality of mechanical materials underneath the car as well as inside the car. To me, the MX 5 looks to be put together with better quality materials. I have also been reading reviews from consumers on the FR-S/BR-Z's since they came out. Many seem to be having quality issues with their cars? I haven't driven either car, so my comments are from what I have seen and read. I still may be more tempted to get a used Honda S2000 as opposed to either of these two cars.
Yeah, they forgot to mention that the FRS feels like you're riding on a gravel road ALL THE TIME. Most people won't like that which is why the Miata will outsell the other 2. The people who will race the Miata will modify it anyway. For everyone else the car will be perfect.
Watching these reviews made me on my day off go and test drive the new Miata and the s2000 and I came away glad that I got the FRS and not the other ones.
The new Miata is aimed to a broad audience. The average age of owners for Miata are empty nesters. A small portion use the Miata as a track car. Where the toyobaru is geared to the "fast and furious " crowd. Not to mention you can't really compare a convertible to a fixed coupe. That being said, between these 2, I would still take the Miata. I think things will be different when the Fiat version hits the street.
I agree. I think the newer Miatas are filling the gap the old MGs left. They are sporty but not hardcore. Much better for just cruising around in rather than attacking a corner in.
- First, the idea was to leave the top up to compare driving dynamics... but at the end you talked about what would be the better car to own... which means you have to talk about the benefits of the Miata being a convertible, because that is part of the benefits you do get when buying a Miata. - Also, to over harp about body roll when a simple sway bar upgrade can be done for $400 seems close minded, especially since Todd spent more money than that upgrading the FRS's wheels and tires. - Lastly, you two say $30,000 is too much for those cars, so what NEW cars would be better buys for $30,000?
The major problems I have with the FRS/BRZ are the mid-range torque divot and the crappy sounding intake/exhaust note. The MX-5 is better in those departments.
Last winter, I decided that I wanted a RWD sports car. But I didn't know if I wanted a Miata or a FRS/BRZ. I loved the BRZ when it first came out but I couldn't afford a new one. I drove an NA Miata and had a blast, but I wanted something newer. In the Spring I drove a used '13 BRZ Ltd and a used '13 Miata Club. Both cars were around $21k. In the end, I went with the BRZ. The flatter handling inspired more confidence, the interior is packed with more features, the fuel economy is better, and the seating position is more to my liking. I'm 5'9 and 165lbs, and when I'm in a sports car, I want to see closer to the ground; I felt like I sat too high in the Miata. The BRZ was just a better value overall. Now if only I could get people to stop bumping into and backing into it... :(
+yitznewton Yup. If you want a roadster that's set up from the factory to feel hardcore, light, and focused, the S2000 is still the top choice at sub-$25k. You can easily find a clean example for $15k that gives you more smiles per gallon than either the Twins or the MX-5. That being said, BRZ/FRS with an S2000 motor could be a game changer.
+yitznewton If you can find an S2000 in good condition for a reasonable price, definitely make an offer. The problem with the S2000 is that the newest ones are more than five years old, with the oldest at 15, so it may be hard to find one in decent shape. And because of the high demand, the used price for a decent S2000 in my area is about the same as a base MX5 or BRZ.
I think you guys are spot on. I've owned both the FR-S and Miata, purchased only for track days (twice a month). I would pick my FR-S any day over my Miata. Don't get me wrong, they are both great cars. But for me, the FR-S was a much more enjoyable car. From a reliability perspective, the Miata is miles ahead of my FR-S. I had so many problems with my FR-S, I never trusted it on the track. My Miata was rock solid. I've since moved onto a new track car. Both cars are a lot of fun, but the FR-S gets my vote as well.
In conclusion: Mazda purposely made the MX-5 more on its soft side so it can appeal to a broader audience which the FRS/BRZ is more geared towards the track which limits its audience thus hurting its sales. Sounds like Mazda still comes back on top. But it all rolls back to what kind of driver are you; are you the one that likes to be aggressive all the time with only one purpose of performance or are you the kind of driver that enjoys spirited sessions every now again while also don't mind cruising around not getting tickets? Thus why I choose my Mustang Ecoboost for $26grand.
+Elephant Comes back on top? No one is winning here, Toyota/Subaru certainly didn't create the FRS/BRZ to make a straight big profit out of them, these are small market niche cars especially to mass market firms like Toyota is.. Even then, I'm pretty sure sales figures show that there are more FRS/BRZs sold each year than Miatas since 2013.. The true winners are the consumers here.
Great review! I purchased my MX-5 Miata GT solely off the look's! And that's both interior and exterior where my decision comes from. Point is I don't care about how much body roll or how fast it can get me from 0-60 because I wouldn't drive my car like I'm at some race track and when most people purchase cars those are not typical questions asked. To each his own, buy what you like and enjoy it to the fullest.
Yes, body roll is something most of us are unfamiliar with because the cars we drive have a lot of roll resistance. And the front end is like a sled! But, the car goes really well, and if the roll is that alarming, you can change the springs and sway bars.
As someone who traded my FR-S for a new Miata, you guys nailed it! The Miata has softness to it but for me that works as a daily. I miss the FR-S precision.
Convertibling is pretty damn awesome though. Wind ripping past you as you're flying around a corner or listening to your engine is wicked sensory overload. When you're out on a secluded highway with the top down with epic scenery? Coupes may be great but... for purity I think that is where a roadster takes it.
As someone considering a fun car to compliment an old pickup I keep coming back to this point. Practicality is nice, but if it's not my only vehicle, I want the full experience of top down. Now, if the Toybaru twins offered a targa top....
Mazda should come out with a mazdaspeed mx5, with all the track goodies that really tighten up the car, I'd love more power too but who are we kidding.
+GunsCarsAndBikes You may be interested to know that the upcoming Fiat 124, which is based on the MX5, is to have a turbocharged engine, much like the the Mazdaspeed MX5 from 2004-05. It's also worth noting that Mazdaspeed MX5 wasn't exactly a sales success for Mazda, so it's unlikely that we'll see another one any time soon.
I own a gt86 since 2013. Just drove the MX5 in fuerteventura for 5 days. The convertible feeling is great, but the gt86 is much more of a handling delight.
ND Club with BBS/Brembo package. ECU tune for an extra 20 hp and a good set of coilovers to take care of the cushy ride. There, now you have the sports car you're looking for.
Great review as usual. I am leaning towards towards the FR-S just because of practicality. The LE Miata was @32k I think, the base Miata is 25k.....but one they should have tested, the Club with performance pack, $32k, that may have been a fairer fight.
the 'Driver's Choice' would definitely be the Club version of the ND MX-5. I know you guys said that the Club wouldn't change your conclusion on the MX-5, but everything you say that makes the MX-5 LE soft is addressed in the Club version. You guys need to review the Club when you can! The MX-5 LE vs. the MX-5 Club is, to me, BMW E30 325i vs. 325is. Subtle changes that when added together change the overall picture to something more focused and more of what a 'Driver's Choice' would be.
Great review. I'm sad that the newest MX5 didn't translate more feeling to the driver. I think Todd's exactly right though, this will market much better to a broad audience than a buttoned up version would.
I agree, not everybody needs a rock solid sports suspension and not everybody needs 500hp. It's about the sensation of driving and with the brz's 200hp i think its enough, but it really lags in the mid-range. Compared to the Miata it has a nice power band and although it is only 155hp, dont give it any more, that will ruin the car. If it were up to me i would choose the Miata simply because of its balance between sport and daily driver.
+Dan ger I'd say you have to take any review with a grain of salt and recognition of the reviewers prejudices. The only way to find out your own truth about any car is to drive it yourself. I'm glad these dudes love their FRS. I've seen other reviewers trash the FRS in head to head. It's sort of like wine tasting.
+racaroc Nah, Paul and Todd do a really good job of keeping their opinion out of these things. The driver feel is a metric that most reviewers don't comment on which is probably where they deviate.
+Dan ger I think you meant to say metric instead of "meteoric". In any case, "driver feel" is certainly a subjective criterion and the ownership and familiarity with the FRS undoubtedly influences such an evaluation (i.e. this car doesn't feel like my FRS). They have a perfect right to prefer the FRS, but their speculation about the reasons for the "driver feel" of MX-5 is pure hogwash.
Softness usually equates to better ride quality. A supple chassis increases mechanical grip. Sticky tires would greatly help with the body roll issues.
This is what gets me with car reviews. I have actually owned a BRZ and a 2017 BRZ. And nothing they are saying makes any since to me. My Miata feels so much sharper than my BRZ. The BRZ is the one that feels softer.
I wish in one of your MX5 videos you would have had the Club trim. Every time you have a squishy GT. I have a Club and it’s more taut for sure, even though stiffer springs and sway bars would help. It was not an easy choice over the 86 and I still and not completely sure I have the right car. And there’s still a chance I could swap in the future.
Yeah but the Mx5 powerband is alot better then the sluggish 86 one. And the 86 clutch grab is annoying. Its not smooth at all but the steering and body is more planted and flat which is good for any back roads or serious driving.
Check out the SavageGeese review of the MX-5. They get the car on the lift and discuss the nuts and bolts. There is great technology there, lightweight multi adjustable suspension pieces, weight savings throughout the car. I think if they had had the Club and not the Launch version they'd have been more positive about the car. I've got 21,500 miles on my Sport and really like it, it's perfect for the NH backroads I haunt. I drive it through the NH winters on Blizzacks, it copes fine, 15 degrees and top down, love it!
After months trying to find a nice low mileage MX5 I found a low mileage FR-S...luv it! and the FR-S makes me feel LESS like a hairdresser on his way to a Jimmy Buffett concert LOL of course now people mistake me for a teenage hoonigan.....choices, people, choices....
I can feel those guys so much, i reckon frs for the more hardcore (stiffer and more precise by default) drivers and mx5 for a wider audience (easy and comfy but can be modded)
Both cars are a great platform for modification. The 86 twins need a 3-4K supercharger and some tires. MX5 needs coils, bushings, control arms, sway bars, tires and maybe a full header back exhaust and a tune to wake it up. Either way you'll end up paying 5k or more. But you will end up with a perfect sports car. I still can't believe Mazda managed to make a car that's 2,300lbs that's amazing!
You can't open the top to the sun and have that free experience that the mx5 has. The FRS just like every other coupe except gutless. Today the mx5 is 181 horses. Mazda makes a waaay better car ! Smaller and more nimble, weighs less than the FRS !
Your comments about the Miata were interesting because there are suppliers shipping suspension kits to make the car much edgier. Mazda is aiming to hit a wider mark than Subaru. Excellent work!
You choose a 'coffin' over the walk in the forest experience. By eliminating the 'drop top' to make it 'far' you made it 100% toward the FRDZZerter thing. You even gave the slower car better tires. I think if your in the market for a convertible, you would be settling for the FRS. MX-5 in all of it advantages beats the BRZ/FRS.
Honestly, I have Mini Cooper S and even though it doesn't compete with these 3, based on price alone it is. It has a faster 0-60 and quarter mile time and the road feel is there.
I know this is old and now a moot point, and I always give you guys a thumbs UP - but not this time. According to KBB.com the FRS was about $3500 more, so dump $3500 into the suspension, rims & tires on the MX5 and not only would it out-accelerate the FRS, it would out-handle it by a mile.
I agree. Actually, most of the "typical" Miata owners wouldn't even take a second look at the "Toyobaru". It isn't a CONVERTIBLE/ ROADSTER in the first place and you can't even order it with a sunroof. ;)
in mexico you can only get either the mx-5 or the brz... the brz costs around 6k more... sorry but the mazda is a better buy here, you can get the car and change the suspension setup, new seats and still be under the price of the BRZ
After watching this video, it really makes me wish Honda would start making the S2000 again.
+UBCS Wraith I want the S660.
+Andrew Malkin s800
iliovecaRS Also cool.
+Andrew Malkin When that car comes to the States we will be getting the 1 liter with 125hp.
+UBCS Wraith Honda is playing with the idea of a baby NSX. I'm hoping Toyota will challenge them and give us a new MR2.
Mazda has never made the MX5 a hard core sports car. It has allways been a nice softtop roadster.
and this is where mazda got lost, well, especially in Indonesia, they dont sell the convertible and stick shift version. that sucks, they rape the enjoyment of having a miata.
People made it hardcore..
My girlfriend gets to the point quicker than these guys
While having getting straight to point is convenient, having all the reasons arriving to that conclusions is, sometimes, necessary.
Epic comment!!👍👍😂😂😂
@@Kiddomike You wanna hear your girlfriend give you all the reasons? Really?
I think you will find her G-Spot faster also.
looking at the mx5 in the wrong way, mx5 was never supposed to be a hardcore sports car why so negative
+TheTonicro Well said. They should put up the dough and buy an Alfa 4C.
It seems like both of these cars force you to keep the revs up in the power band, so both cars force you to be a better driver then in something like a Mustang GT or something with gobs of horsepower. Something a lot of people can't do so they complain about lack of power.
That drone work at 7:25... wow. You'r production quality in the past year has grown so very much. I have to say, I appreciate everything you guys do! Nice cars too...
Things to do when you get each car...
Miata: get the club package, stiffer springs/shocks.
BRZ/FRS: Header, tune, 4.67 final drive and better tires.
+H0okemh0rns Body roll doesn't = bad handling. Especially on the street and in low speed corners a soft suspension setup can handle better than a stiff suspension set up.
+Doctor Ferdinand Exactly. I usually like their reviews, but they keep coming back to how much stiffer the frs is. Of course it is, its sprung harder, so it rides shittier as well. Compliance doesn't mean slower, but people think stiff= sporty=speed=better, when in reality stiff=less compliance=less grip on bad roads and worse ride=faster until you have really sticky tires.
+saygmo When you say "stiff"the FRS is still very soft compared to other "performance" cars. :) It rolls less because it has a low centre of gravity because of the boxer engine.
+jo23bulls Things to do when you get each car:
Miata: leave it alone and know you're a secure and sexy person
BRZ/FRS: attract the attention of other men
+Doctor Ferdinand the MotorTrend comparison spoke nicely to this. The Miata performed better, but the drivers preferred the BRZ. I heard the same thing in Paul & Todd's notes: the Miata can tackle the roads perfectly fine; the BRZ just feels better doing it.
the way they edit this video, I don't know when they're talking about the Miata or the FRS
miata got a red door
Another great video guys, these are always really fun to watch. I'm pro-Mazda, but I appreciate you guys going through not only the dynamics of the cars strengths/weaknesses, but also trying to understand what the companies were actually trying to do with their cars based on their performance level.
I’ve been watching Everyday Driver videos for quite a while now and I generally enjoy them! I like the commentary and perspective that you guys bring to the table. With that said, I can’t say I concur with a few of the major stipulations in this video:
1. You’re reviewing a Miata with the top UP! You readily admit that convertibles are more fun with the top down and then refuse to lower the top. You’re missing the point of a roadster. For the money that these cars demand, there are faster cars out there, but these two are meant for FUN! In that, by not lowering the Miata’s top you’re taking away its party piece and one of the prime reasons people actually buy them: roadsters are fun! It’s hard to replicate having the wind in your hair and the sunlight touching your face on a nice day! You have just ignored the primary reason that the Miata exists. It’s a lot like saying “I’m dating a supermodel, but I don’t want to ever look at her”; sure, she could be great at a lot of other things, but you’re missing the main attraction.
2. As mentioned multiple times above: you didn’t bring the Club edition! Seriously? You’re reviewing these cars on the premise of their sporting intentions and you neglected the bring the car with the sporty options (LSD, slightly stiffer Bilstein suspension, strut tower brace, optional lighter BBS wheels & Brembo brakes, ect). Instead you brought the LEAST sporty version of the car- the Launch Edition, which is essentially the GT package. I say least sporty because at least the base model/Sport package is lighter than the GT/LE. You claimed to be comparing the driving dynamics of these vehicles and yet you brought the fat-cat version of the Miata rather than the version intended for more serious driving. Yes, the Club still has body roll, but I don’t think many will argue that it’s not the more appropriate version to bring to a test of sporting intentions.
I saw a comment above that the Launch Edition was the only Miata available to you at the time and I’m sure that might be true. In that case, you should have considered waiting for a Club in order to give the Miata a fair sporting chance. I understand that Todd owns an FR-S and while you guys are trying hard to mask that bias, it’s still there.
+roninsoldier83 - We're very glad to have you with us and enjoying what we do!
We agree that people aren't going to buy a MX5 if they don't want a convertible. Excellent point, and good analogy. However, we left the top up to allow us to focus more on the dynamics and not the top down experience. In our upcoming all-4-generations Miata film we are top-down all the time.
Speaking of dynamics, yes, it would have been preferable to have a club model. However, as we've said, the Club model wasn't available from the Press fleet or in the entire State of Utah at the time of our shoot. It was less the ideal for this comparison, but perfect for the all-4-gen version where none of the cars are a club spec.
Vs. the FRS - every outlet we've seen that put the Club model against the FRS/BRZ has mentioned the inherent softeness of the Club model as well. The specs of that version suggest that it will feel like a focused sports car, and yet that's not the conclusions we've seen. This generation MX5 is purposely softer.
Finally - while you can easily accuse Todd of bias if you like, Paul steadily seems to likes the FRS less as time goes by. Plus, everyone on set with us (including the Miata owner... who has owned multiple cars and many Miatas) preferred the driving dynamics of the FRS in back to back driving.
All that to say - thank you for your thoughts here. We read them all, and we welcome them. We appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment!
+EverydayDriver Thanks for the reply! I'm still a big fan of your work and look forward to seeing a comparison of all 4 generations of Miata!
+EverydayDriver Have you tried to get a hold of the Club model to test since? I drove the UK equivalent spec cars and absolutely hated the softer version (a lot more than you guys did). I couldn't see past that body roll and wrote the car off. Thankfully I test drove the spec with Bilsteins et all and bought one. needless to say I thought the difference was significant.
You guys have become too hardcore to be called as Everyday Driver.
+Manseung Ha yup - called them out on this on their economy hatchbacks. they scoffed and told me 'nooooo, we're trying to pick the most enjoyable one to drive everyday'
I'm hardcore enough to love these videos and drive a hardcore car everyday.
+Manseung Ha "Everyday Driver provides entertaining and informative car reviews of great vehicles real people can afford." To me "everyday" implies that it's not an exotic or uberclassic or something else you wouldn't drive around all the time.
I drive an MX-5 as my everyday car. These cars are affordable enough to buy, run and maintain for an average person. The only significant issue is lack of storage and seats. As a single man, these aren't issues for me. I can fit my weekly shopping in the boot and I rarely have a passenger, let alone two. So for my circumstances - which aren't rare - the MX-5 *is* an everyday car.
+Manseung Ha What are you talking about? I could totally see driving either of these cars every day. As it stands I DD a Fiesta ST which is stiffer than both, and roughly the same speed on track.
Great reviews guys. I really like how your getting more and more conversational - you guys have done such a great job with your "brand" i think people will enjoy the natural interaction just like the podcasts. I am looking forward to you guys testing the Club model indeed.
let's get one thing completely straight. Miata has not "grown softer." It has never been hard edged. The miata is the purest version of a sports car currently made, and it has been for 25 years. It's also proven to be faster than the FRS/BRZ. Miata gets my vote.
+Mathew Brady - Yes, we agree that the Miata has never been focused on a hardcore setup. However, we have a review of all four generations coming. Driving all of them back to back is something most people (and journalists) haven't done and we found the realizations quite surprising. We look forward to sharing that with you.
+EverydayDriver Actually really excited about that! I have an NA8 right now and I'll be getting either a 2nd,3rd, or 4th gen when I'm out of college. I'd love to see a comparison on them all! At the moment I'm thinking NB or NC.
+Mathew Brady miata is still gay as fuck. and LOLOL at charging WRX money for a tin can that has no power and looks like a toy for a hairdresser
+Mathew Brady I agree completely, the Miata has always had a softer suspension setup since it was first introduced for the 1990 model year. From what I understand, this was done for many reasons, such as to better emulate the 60s era sports cars that inspired the Miata (Elan, MGB, TR4, etc.) in the first place. Also with a short wheelbase, a firm suspension can be punishing on rough pavement. A softer suspension also helps to minimize the chassis flexing that is inherent in a convertible.
Regardless of why Mazda chose a relatively softer suspension, it should be noted that the stock Miata is still faster around a circuit than the twins, despite the fact that the Miata has 40 fewer bhp. To me, this indicates that the Miata suspension has been better tuned than the twins' suspension.
And consider this, if the Miata is faster than the twins despite the fact that it has a softer stock suspension, then imagine how much potential the Miata will have with upgraded aftermarket components.
+Mark Ratcliffe You came and watched the video....the "gay" Miata attracted you!
The new 2019 Miata has 181 hp, thats a 26hp increase.
And damn is it fun ^^
the quality of these gets better and better every episode! You guys really did a nice job on this one.
People complaining about 150 hp make me seriously mad.
I have a later NA with 90hp and within a year of owning it there has not been a single moment I thought that I needed more power.
Stop talking numbers and actually drive a car.
Thanks Toyota and Subaru for giving us a real hardcore coupe as an option. Mx5 checks some people’s boxes. Mainly 50 year old middle Class men. I bought the brz cause it’s the perfect purist car. Rwd, hard top coupe. A lot of cars sold as sporty now are are just altered economy cars. Like the GTi & civic Si. Etc etc.
Really loved this video guys. Production value has always been high, but this one- the editing, scenery, music- was all a step up. Keep up the great work, and thanks for making Fridays so much fun.
Yeah odd result. Every other review seems to prefer the MX-5
Best comparison between these two cars ever, the different characteristics are worked out perfectly and correspond to my own experiences. Great thank you!!
7:22 how did that drone not his the FRS??
Hit*
@@santosurbina3380 thanks
4:59 You want more power because your roads are too big, lol. Put that same car in Asia or Europe and you will quickly realise both cars have plenty enough power. Also, keeping momentum in lightweight, low power is in its self a skill and a fun one to get right too.
If all you're comparing is driving dynamics, then you guys pretty much nailed it. The FR-S is a sharper car, plain and simple. But the elephant in the room is the convertible top. And it's the reason these two cars can't really be compared. They are wholly different animals. The FR-S is the low priced track weapon, designed to connect driver to car to road in the most direct means possible for $25k. The MX-5 is the one that takes the driving experience to a whole other level when the top is down. It's not only about the driver to car to road relationship, although that is an important part of the equation. It's about seeing, feeling, hearing and smelling the entire world around you while delighting in the drive that's taking you through it. It's the difference between seeing a movie on a 25' color T.V. and seeing it in IMAX 3D. The FR-S is a fantastic car, and if the MX-5 didn't exist, I would happily plunk my money down for one. But that convertible top adds so much more to the driving experience. I'm willing to give up a bit of sharpness to experience the drive in ways you just can't in a car with a fixed roof.
Brian Sullins Convertibles are for girls though.
the Miata character has always include some body roll. motor trend have compared these cars, and the Miata have won in every category. this review is very bias for the frs. The Miata's quicker acceleration, better interior, faster corner speed, shorter braking was not enthused? the top down driving experience was just waived off? All other channels I've seen favor the Miata by a large margin.
+Quang Lam I feel the same way about other being biased. lol I'm not sure if they are stuck on it being new so it has to be good or that it can drop it's top or what. The more I drove the MX-5 the more I didn't care for it. It is a great car and I would still recommend it to people because you can have a blast in it but for how I like to drive (and for my height) the FR-S/BRZ was the way to go.
+Quang Lam - Since you've seen the MotorTrend comparo (which even used the more aggressive Club version) then we're sure you noticed they called out the Mx5 as feeling less precise and having a disappointing amount of Body roll. That's the same conclusion we came to. The better specs for the MX5 in that same video (as well as the track tests we've seen) are close enough to be argued as the difference between the MX5s good performance tires vs. the low-grip tires on the FRS/BRZ from the factory. Without having the same tires, it's hard to tell for sure. We've been surprised how few reviewers have mentioned that possibility. We've seen plenty of other commentary, and the body-roll concern is present in all of it. Instrumented testing is great, but we focus on feel, not specs.
As far as the top goes - as mentioned, we know top down can be influential, so we left it up while testing it against a coupe. Having said that, we've got a review of all four generations of the MX5 in the process, and there it was top-down all the way. Thanks for watching and commenting!
+EverydayDriver The Miata is alway intended to have body roll, that's it's DNA. That's easily fix by replacing lowering spring or sway bars. 0.5 second faster in the 1/4-mile is a huge margin. You can't fix that with tires. My Nc miata is still 0.1 second faster. The Miata has the lightweight advantage which is big and hard to fix. Every enthusiast know that. Braking and fuel economy, and track time are better too. Motortrend test all these, and the Miata won them all. It's a land slide. Other Channel like the Redline Review favor the MX-5 too. The topless aspect is huge for me and a lot of other people. Normally, there's a $4000 premium for a convertible. You can't just dismiss that. One could easily dismiss the body roll then. That's the only thing the FR-S have, but have a slower lap time.
+Quang Lam - We would never have a car win because of faster 0-60 or 1/4 stats, but those are industry standard tests. Lap times are intriguing, but as we mentioned, the ND and FRS have been so close in all the timed lap tests we've seen that tires really could be the deciding factor if both cars had matching sets. Now, if the deciding factor is a convertible, then there's no choice here as the MX5 will always win. We hope you noticed that both cars got high ratings in this comparison. We found the FRS more enjoyable to drive. Others may not. It comes down to driving preference at some point (which the guys discussed at the end of the film). We sincerely hope you'll get the chance to drive both them back to back and decide for yourself. Thanks for your thoughts.
+EverydayDriver Small margin? These are large Margin. In Motortrend's comparo, the MX-5 got well over 1 second better lap time. Tires can't fix that. Who's to say that the tires on the MX-5 is any better than the FR-S. The MX-5 has a lot of better attributes. I have test drove the FR-S in 2013, and I hated the interior. The center knobs are small, feel like cars from the 1990's Era. I didn't buy it and bought the Mazdaspeed 3 for better performance at a lower price. Bottom line is that the FR-S is way out class here. The MX-5 also offer many other feathers like the MMI controller with a better screen like that found in Audi cars. But lightweight is the best attribute. You can't find any car under $40K that 2300 lbs.
Perhaps you guys would have found the Club model to be a better competitor to the FRS? It's a bit more stiffer, better brakes (optional), LSD, a little lighter, even less expensive :)
+maximus9401 Very well could be. The Launch Edition car was all that was available to us.
Chance Hales hey, that gives you guys a chance to make another comparison. The real deal this time. I won't complain about more Miata vs FRS content :P
+maximus9401 Yea god forbid you make a car your own...
+maximus9401 Apparently the body roll is still there with the club
Eric Leippe Yea it's still there, but I say it's worth it for the wheels, brembos and LSD
Every time I watch one of these I cant help but think how awesome the FRS/BRZ would be with the new WRX engine.
Give me the MX5 with the top down on a sunny day and its a no-brainer 😊💋
Is it just me or do they contradict themselves in every sentence? Guy; the Miata is a very track capable car, but then again not really. Other guy; you could really push this car if you wanted to, but you just don't want to. God damn their reviews are hard to watch
ok... I agree with their pick. They want the MX5 to be more performance oriented. I wanted that too. I dream all the time about strapping a turbo or supercharger onto this mazda add a better wheel/tire package and work the suspension and brakes. However I think they defeated the point of this car at the beginning of the video by saying they would not drop the top. Dropping the top is the point of the Miata. It is about cruising with a bit of zip but without the harshness of stuff suspension and neck snapping burnouts. It is a hey look at me and my wife taking a date night out away from our teenagers kind of car.
As a 2015 BRZ owner and I love the Miata. I will always see it as a gender car. The Miata is a true ladies car, the BRZ/FRS is a mans car. Sorry, just expressing my view guys. Love your show. The wife hates the BRZ but she loves the Miata. Iconic
I currently own both the BRZ and am on my second ND1 MX5. BRZ is trash compared to the ND and even the NC. Hence my BRZ is for sale. I wouldn't not recommend the BRZ as a daily on normal roads. And If I wanted to track it, I would still prefer to have the softer ND platform. Or just add a Front Sway Bar and Coilovers if you have the money. BRZ only wins for passenger legroom and overall practicality (you can bring tyres/tools in the car for the track day). Now the ND2, that just blows everything out of the water. I cannot wait for them to depreciate so I can eventually upgrade.
You two are the best down to earth car reviewers and my favorite car review show. You guys tell everyone all about what actually matters about the cars people might be interested in. Todd if you're ever in the Portland Oregon area and would like to drive my supercharged BRZ, I'd be more than happy to let you flog it around.
Miata Club supporters, don't forget it adds $3500 to the MSRP, to $28600. These guys, in their S2000 review, called it "taut, incredibly sharp," which I think is the key difference in approach between the ND and the S. The S feels like a cat walking on its claws, a feeling I loved when I tested it. At around $20k for a clean low-mile AP2, it's a great value up against the ND.
as much as i like the s2k, good luck finding one under 15k that hasnt been either wrecked or doesnt have 120k miles. the only worse honda to find is a bone stock ITR. unicorns are nice for bench racing, but its not really a fair comparison.
so true, caw caw
Alot of people seem to have wanted the MX5 to just destroy the FRS and for every reviewer to say the same thing. Personally I am in the FRS corner, never have been a convertible fan and I feel the FRS better follows the formula of a sportscar. Nice to see the new MX5 smaller and ligher in the age of every new generation being larger, heavier and slower but convertibles have never been sporty to me, always felt liker cruisers. A coupe on the other hand, that's where it's at
This is the only channel whose old videos look like brand new
The Miata is better looking and despite all their talk of the FRS being more focused the Miata is still faster, and you can always put the top down.
Great video as usual! How close did the aerial camera get to the FR-S at 7:24? Did the FR-S driver think he was going to hit it?
+Garrick Merrill Actually, it's usually pretty difficult to even see the drone while we are shooting these shots. I was driving the BRZ for all the drone shots and only remember seeing the drone once. But yeah, when I saw that particular shot it almost looks like it bounced off the roof of the FR-S!
You guys have some of the best production values and somehow the subscribers haven't gotten there yet. Keep up the vids and podcasts. This year has been great for content.
The problem with "road feel" that so many purists complain about is that America has terrible roads for the most part. Most of the roads in my area, including many highways, are a nightmare of nooks, crannies, bumps, and potholes. Why would I want to feel that?
Mazda was right in making the suspension compliant. People don't want to be beat up when they drive their car.
+Kev erino " Why would I want to feel that? " Because it's a sportscar... that's the point. :)
+Kev erino There are amazing roads where I live, and streets filled with potholes in the city nearby. If not for the stiff suspension and manual transmission, I would be bored out of my mind in the city.
Every drive is an adventure.
There is another comparison review on UA-cam of these 2 cars where they look at the quality of mechanical materials underneath the car as well as inside the car. To me, the MX 5 looks to be put together with better quality materials. I have also been reading reviews from consumers on the FR-S/BR-Z's since they came out. Many seem to be having quality issues with their cars? I haven't driven either car, so my comments are from what I have seen and read. I still may be more tempted to get a used Honda S2000 as opposed to either of these two cars.
why not compare a Club spec Miata with the Bilsteins and strut tower bar?
And a simple sway bar upgrade for $400 will make the Miata feel more planted.
Yeah, they forgot to mention that the FRS feels like you're riding on a gravel road ALL THE TIME. Most people won't like that which is why the Miata will outsell the other 2. The people who will race the Miata will modify it anyway. For everyone else the car will be perfect.
Watching these reviews made me on my day off go and test drive the new Miata and the s2000 and I came away glad that I got the FRS and not the other ones.
Love my FRS so much fun. Fun reading all the comments about these cars from people that don’t own nor have driven either the 86 twins or MX5 😂
The new Miata is aimed to a broad audience. The average age of owners for Miata are empty nesters. A small portion use the Miata as a track car. Where the toyobaru is geared to the "fast and furious " crowd.
Not to mention you can't really compare a convertible to a fixed coupe. That being said, between these 2, I would still take the Miata. I think things will be different when the Fiat version hits the street.
I agree. I think the newer Miatas are filling the gap the old MGs left. They are sporty but not hardcore. Much better for just cruising around in rather than attacking a corner in.
- First, the idea was to leave the top up to compare driving dynamics... but at the end you talked about what would be the better car to own... which means you have to talk about the benefits of the Miata being a convertible, because that is part of the benefits you do get when buying a Miata.
- Also, to over harp about body roll when a simple sway bar upgrade can be done for $400 seems close minded, especially since Todd spent more money than that upgrading the FRS's wheels and tires.
- Lastly, you two say $30,000 is too much for those cars, so what NEW cars would be better buys for $30,000?
The major problems I have with the FRS/BRZ are the mid-range torque divot and the crappy sounding intake/exhaust note. The MX-5 is better in those departments.
Another ... of what we have come to expect from both of you ... outstanding video!
Last winter, I decided that I wanted a RWD sports car. But I didn't know if I wanted a Miata or a FRS/BRZ. I loved the BRZ when it first came out but I couldn't afford a new one. I drove an NA Miata and had a blast, but I wanted something newer. In the Spring I drove a used '13 BRZ Ltd and a used '13 Miata Club. Both cars were around $21k. In the end, I went with the BRZ. The flatter handling inspired more confidence, the interior is packed with more features, the fuel economy is better, and the seating position is more to my liking. I'm 5'9 and 165lbs, and when I'm in a sports car, I want to see closer to the ground; I felt like I sat too high in the Miata. The BRZ was just a better value overall. Now if only I could get people to stop bumping into and backing into it... :(
Great review. You reconfirmed my feeling that I want that S2000!
+yitznewton Yup. If you want a roadster that's set up from the factory to feel hardcore, light, and focused, the S2000 is still the top choice at sub-$25k. You can easily find a clean example for $15k that gives you more smiles per gallon than either the Twins or the MX-5. That being said, BRZ/FRS with an S2000 motor could be a game changer.
+yitznewton I agree.
Yes don't settle for anything less
+yitznewton If you can find an S2000 in good condition for a reasonable price, definitely make an offer. The problem with the S2000 is that the newest ones are more than five years old, with the oldest at 15, so it may be hard to find one in decent shape. And because of the high demand, the used price for a decent S2000 in my area is about the same as a base MX5 or BRZ.
+Eric Shea yeah, I'm looking at clean early AP2s with 20-80k miles in the $18-22k range, NJ area
Aftermarket will make the Miata much more fun. Sways, springs, brakes, tires, more power. If you like tinkering on ride
I think you guys are spot on. I've owned both the FR-S and Miata, purchased only for track days (twice a month). I would pick my FR-S any day over my Miata. Don't get me wrong, they are both great cars. But for me, the FR-S was a much more enjoyable car. From a reliability perspective, the Miata is miles ahead of my FR-S. I had so many problems with my FR-S, I never trusted it on the track. My Miata was rock solid. I've since moved onto a new track car. Both cars are a lot of fun, but the FR-S gets my vote as well.
In conclusion: Mazda purposely made the MX-5 more on its soft side so it can appeal to a broader audience which the FRS/BRZ is more geared towards the track which limits its audience thus hurting its sales. Sounds like Mazda still comes back on top.
But it all rolls back to what kind of driver are you; are you the one that likes to be aggressive all the time with only one purpose of performance or are you the kind of driver that enjoys spirited sessions every now again while also don't mind cruising around not getting tickets? Thus why I choose my Mustang Ecoboost for $26grand.
In that case, may I safely make the assumption that your username was inspired by your car?
+Kye Moser lol clever one ;P
Totally agree with you. Mx5 is set as a cruiser than a hard core.
+Elephant Comes back on top? No one is winning here, Toyota/Subaru certainly didn't create the FRS/BRZ to make a straight big profit out of them, these are small market niche cars especially to mass market firms like Toyota is.. Even then, I'm pretty sure sales figures show that there are more FRS/BRZs sold each year than Miatas since 2013.. The true winners are the consumers here.
Great review! I purchased my MX-5 Miata GT solely off the look's! And that's both interior and exterior where my decision comes from. Point is I don't care about how much body roll or how fast it can get me from 0-60 because I wouldn't drive my car like I'm at some race track and when most people purchase cars those are not typical questions asked. To each his own, buy what you like and enjoy it to the fullest.
Yes, body roll is something most of us are unfamiliar with because the cars we drive have a lot of roll resistance. And the front end is like a sled! But, the car goes really well, and if the roll is that alarming, you can change the springs and sway bars.
As someone who traded my FR-S for a new Miata, you guys nailed it! The Miata has softness to it but for me that works as a daily. I miss the FR-S precision.
Very logical review.... felt satisfied listening to the points..
I love my GT86, its awesome car in anyways. and you can do any lots of style or add on to look so good looking and attractive car, so awesome car
Convertibling is pretty damn awesome though. Wind ripping past you as you're flying around a corner or listening to your engine is wicked sensory overload.
When you're out on a secluded highway with the top down with epic scenery? Coupes may be great but... for purity I think that is where a roadster takes it.
As someone considering a fun car to compliment an old pickup I keep coming back to this point. Practicality is nice, but if it's not my only vehicle, I want the full experience of top down. Now, if the Toybaru twins offered a targa top....
Just go to the end for the conclusion unless you want to fall asleep.
Hey guys, I love all your reviews. I was hoping you can review the new 2017 BRZ and compare it to the old BRZ or FRS. thanks !
I’d love you to do a revised review with the 2020 GT86 and the 2020 Mazda Mitia
Mazda should come out with a mazdaspeed mx5, with all the track goodies that really tighten up the car, I'd love more power too but who are we kidding.
+GunsCarsAndBikes That would be awesome.
That would be nice. But that will make the car cost over $35k. i like miata but with over 35k i'll rather buy Sti or New RS
+GunsCarsAndBikes You may be interested to know that the upcoming Fiat 124, which is based on the MX5, is to have a turbocharged engine, much like the the Mazdaspeed MX5 from 2004-05.
It's also worth noting that Mazdaspeed MX5 wasn't exactly a sales success for Mazda, so it's unlikely that we'll see another one any time soon.
unbelievable quality and quantity you guys are putting out
I own a gt86 since 2013. Just drove the MX5 in fuerteventura for 5 days. The convertible feeling is great, but the gt86 is much more of a handling delight.
Miata looks like a BMW Z4 in 2004. Love the miata . Top down fun.
Great video guys.
ND Club with BBS/Brembo package. ECU tune for an extra 20 hp and a good set of coilovers to take care of the cushy ride. There, now you have the sports car you're looking for.
Great review as usual. I am leaning towards towards the FR-S just because of practicality. The LE Miata was @32k I think, the base Miata is 25k.....but one they should have tested, the Club with performance pack, $32k, that may have been a fairer fight.
the 'Driver's Choice' would definitely be the Club version of the ND MX-5. I know you guys said that the Club wouldn't change your conclusion on the MX-5, but everything you say that makes the MX-5 LE soft is addressed in the Club version. You guys need to review the Club when you can! The MX-5 LE vs. the MX-5 Club is, to me, BMW E30 325i vs. 325is. Subtle changes that when added together change the overall picture to something more focused and more of what a 'Driver's Choice' would be.
Great review. I'm sad that the newest MX5 didn't translate more feeling to the driver. I think Todd's exactly right though, this will market much better to a broad audience than a buttoned up version would.
I agree, not everybody needs a rock solid sports suspension and not everybody needs 500hp. It's about the sensation of driving and with the brz's 200hp i think its enough, but it really lags in the mid-range. Compared to the Miata it has a nice power band and although it is only 155hp, dont give it any more, that will ruin the car. If it were up to me i would choose the Miata simply because of its balance between sport and daily driver.
+Dan ger I'd say you have to take any review with a grain of salt and recognition of the reviewers prejudices. The only way to find out your own truth about any car is to drive it yourself. I'm glad these dudes love their FRS. I've seen other reviewers trash the FRS in head to head. It's sort of like wine tasting.
+racaroc Nah, Paul and Todd do a really good job of keeping their opinion out of these things. The driver feel is a metric that most reviewers don't comment on which is probably where they deviate.
+Dan ger I think you meant to say metric instead of "meteoric". In any case, "driver feel" is certainly a subjective criterion and the ownership and familiarity with the FRS undoubtedly influences such an evaluation (i.e. this car doesn't feel like my FRS). They have a perfect right to prefer the FRS, but their speculation about the reasons for the "driver feel" of MX-5 is pure hogwash.
+racaroc I did mean metric! Good catch.
I'm getting this really weird T-800 Terminator vibe from the Miata Smile @ 15:50 ( the halo-like light eyes, and the teeth in the grill) xD
Softness usually equates to better ride quality. A supple chassis increases mechanical grip. Sticky tires would greatly help with the body roll issues.
This is what gets me with car reviews. I have actually owned a BRZ and a 2017 BRZ. And nothing they are saying makes any since to me. My Miata feels so much sharper than my BRZ. The BRZ is the one that feels softer.
I wish in one of your MX5 videos you would have had the Club trim. Every time you have a squishy GT. I have a Club and it’s more taut for sure, even though stiffer springs and sway bars would help. It was not an easy choice over the 86 and I still and not completely sure I have the right car. And there’s still a chance I could swap in the future.
Yeah but the Mx5 powerband is alot better then the sluggish 86 one. And the 86 clutch grab is annoying. Its not smooth at all but the steering and body is more planted and flat which is good for any back roads or serious driving.
Check out the SavageGeese review of the MX-5. They get the car on the lift and discuss the nuts and bolts. There is great technology there, lightweight multi adjustable suspension pieces, weight savings throughout the car. I think if they had had the Club and not the Launch version they'd have been more positive about the car. I've got 21,500 miles on my Sport and really like it, it's perfect for the NH backroads I haunt. I drive it through the NH winters on Blizzacks, it copes fine, 15 degrees and top down, love it!
Such an amazing episode
Toyobaru made a better, modern MX5. Simple as that.
fr-s, this is my choice
i think this is a new legend
for real
haha what happened at 7:23 with the drone camera? Forgot about the frs trailing behind and got a bit too low?
After months trying to find a nice low mileage MX5 I found a low mileage FR-S...luv it! and the FR-S makes me feel LESS like a hairdresser on his way to a Jimmy Buffett concert LOL of course now people mistake me for a teenage hoonigan.....choices, people, choices....
Would have liked to see them compare the mx-5 club trim with the Bilstein shocks and Brembo brakes.
Can you guys review the 2020 Miata with 181 hp?
The slightly softer suspension will be an advantage in a 3000 km long drive. Less driver fatique, less back, and ass pain.
I can feel those guys so much, i reckon frs for the more hardcore (stiffer and more precise by default) drivers and mx5 for a wider audience (easy and comfy but can be modded)
Everybody thinks they are an "expert" Everyone thinks their opinion is the one that counts. Drive it for yourself and see if it's a match for you.
Both cars are a great platform for modification. The 86 twins need a 3-4K supercharger and some tires. MX5 needs coils, bushings, control arms, sway bars, tires and maybe a full header back exhaust and a tune to wake it up. Either way you'll end up paying 5k or more. But you will end up with a perfect sports car. I still can't believe Mazda managed to make a car that's 2,300lbs that's amazing!
great comparison guys!!
You can't open the top to the sun and have that free experience that the mx5 has. The FRS just like every other coupe except gutless. Today the mx5 is 181 horses. Mazda makes a waaay better car ! Smaller and more nimble, weighs less than the FRS !
Your comments about the Miata were interesting because there are suppliers shipping suspension kits to make the car much edgier. Mazda is aiming to hit a wider mark than Subaru. Excellent work!
You choose a 'coffin' over the walk in the forest experience. By eliminating the 'drop top' to make it 'far' you made it 100% toward the FRDZZerter thing. You even gave the slower car better tires. I think if your in the market for a convertible, you would be settling for the FRS. MX-5 in all of it advantages beats the BRZ/FRS.
Honestly, I have Mini Cooper S and even though it doesn't compete with these 3, based on price alone it is. It has a faster 0-60 and quarter mile time and the road feel is there.
I know this is old and now a moot point, and I always give you guys a thumbs UP - but not this time.
According to KBB.com the FRS was about $3500 more, so dump $3500 into the suspension, rims & tires on the MX5 and not only would it out-accelerate the FRS, it would out-handle it by a mile.
Every point is valid. There is, however, a pretty big feature oft the MX5 not addressed adequately. Do it again on a beautiful day with the top down.
I agree. Actually, most of the "typical" Miata owners wouldn't even take a second look at the "Toyobaru". It isn't a CONVERTIBLE/ ROADSTER in the first place and you can't even order it with a sunroof. ;)
in mexico you can only get either the mx-5 or the brz... the brz costs around 6k more... sorry but the mazda is a better buy here, you can get the car and change the suspension setup, new seats and still be under the price of the BRZ
Biggest mistake with the ND is switching to a digital steering! It's a shame too, because the NC has such a great steering feel through the wheel.
Great description of the miata...I have a 2016 and I feel the same way.
good high quality review video, thank you.
So my 2019 club makes all the difference