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Spiller & Burr Cap & Ball Revolver
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- Опубліковано 18 сер 2024
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I have been watching for one of these for well over 3 years and I finally found them in stock at DGW. They also have Smith carbines in stock as well. Now if only Pietta will get back to making the Starr revolver, fingers crossed. P.S. the UPS man dropped off my Spiller & Burr earlier today.
Just when I think there couldn't possibly be any more firearms that were used during the Civil War. Someone will whip out another one I've never seen before. Thanks for sharing this with us Mike.
i know you typed this 8 years ago but yes to this day i get surprised there were probably thousands if not tens of thousand different models.
I have the same pistol, beautifully made and reliable.
This was my first BP revolver I bought from Dixie as a kit for about $125 back in the day.
I have an update. I love this pistol. I use the .375 balls. Works great. Also worked on the hammer sight. Shoots accurately and handles well. Very well.
1858 Remington, the best revolver of its period. I carried mine with a full cylinder, .458" ball on 35 grains of fff and Hirtenberg caps.
Carried the same loads for a year to win a bet. All 6 went bang, no problems.
I know a lot of people I shoot and compete with that will argue your point with the Remington for the Rogers and Spencer Revolver.
My .44 has remained loaded for at least two years (not my fault), but as you say every round went off just like if it had been loaded that morning.
I had one of these revolvers years ago and made curly maple grips for it. I sold it and now wish I still had it!
Thanks Mike just picked up a Griswold and a Burr at the same show today so this is pretty useful 👍
I always enjoy your vids Mike, thanks. Please keep them coming.
Nice piece Mike! I look forward to your writeup in the magazine!
the notch design looks almost exactly like the new model army. I'm not surprised to hear they borrowed concepts. Oddly, every notch on both of my 58's cylinders work great, and I was expecting that to be an issue.
Been looking at those for years. Looks like its time to place an order with Dixie.
Beautiful gun. I have a Pietta 1860 army, and I’ve had to learn some amateur gunsmithing for it but I love it to death. My brother refers to it as “not a real gun.” But I beg to differ on it. So cool!
Probably my favorite black powder revolver!
I have 2, use them regularly and at reenactments!
Dance & Brothers is good too!
Great video and information!
The one I had back in the 90s blew the caps off the unfired cylinders on ether side of the chamber firing. The other issue was the barrel became lose pretty fast and would unscrew so I JB weilded it. I was looking at one at midwayusa on sale.
Thankyou for responding i appreciate your videos and the good clean way you present them.so I presume the s&b to be a bit more sturdy than the Remington brass revolver even tho it’s a36 cal.
Going back to the future, great video Mike 👍👍
I love this gun,, the brass looks are so pretty... the short yellowboy 😌
You shoot yours A LOT more than I do. A couple times a year tops. I guess at that rate I won't wear out my brass framed colt any time soon.
I just purchased this model so your help in take down will surely help. I will also look into the Rand CLP. I basically use only real black powder and will be anxious to see how that cleaner will do with that. I only have .375 round ball so I guess I better purchase some .380 also. I know all of these replicas shoot very high. I have adjusted the rear sights on several of my BP revolvers and it really helps. Just be careful and not go too far. There is a gentleman with another UA-cam channel that solves his sight in problem very well but he changes out the front sights, they are taller.
Great video Mike, It can be miserable shooting cap-n-ball in cold weather. It looks like Mr. Ruger might have gotten an idea from this revolver.
It's what draws me here to see what your up to . And then you get a little factitious printing seven shots on target with one fail on six calmly rolling around to complete seven of five shots loaded . You rock Duelist 1954 , marry Christmas brother . Thanks be
I bought one a few months ago for $295 at a pawn shop. I plan on shooting it soon. They are hard to find nowadays. Thanks for the tips Mike.
4:26 The hammer will not fit into the cylinder's safety notch which is typical...classic Pietta craftsmanship!
Great video as always Mike, and a very interesting pistol. I'm trying to convince the wife to join me on a trip to Dixie Gun Works during spring break, hoping to pick up an 1875 Remington clone. Best wishes to you and yours.
I'd definitely put a dovetail front sight in that thing. It's accurate enough to justify getting it sighted in
Very good and informative video, thank you for sharing. I have a replica Remington New Army 1858 with the brass frame in 44 caliber. I love shooting it, but it is really a dirty job cleaning it. I will have to research that product you described.
Mine is in blued steel. I do love the brass two-tone look though! (Just wasn't wild about the idea of the frame stretching with use. but. I've yet to shoot the thing, so I suppose that worry was unfounded :P)
Though that ring of lead is going to fall into the next chamber most likely, I dont know about the rest of you but I usually have to spin it around again to load the next chamber, being it is not as accessible as the second position from the rammer for pouring powder... that closed frame stops you from giving a sharp puff of air and pushing that lead ring out the other side, as I usually do.
One of my favorite revolvers
I would posit that the Spiller and Burr would make a nice first C & B pistol.
I'll swear , you are better after coming out with the Ground Hog . All of us down here are waiting on long term viability report from you . Good show so far . . . Thanks
I once had an original Whitney Navy and purchased a replica Spiller & Burr when they first came out. The S&B was marketed by "Joan's Gun Shop". I fired the Whitney and found that it would bind up after only about 7 or 8 shots without stripping it and cleaning. The replica Spiller & Burr, OTOH could go through at least 3 or more cylinder fulls before needing cleaning. Not only that, but it is one of the most accurate black powder guns I've seen! An interesting thing about the rammer/cylinder arbor design: take a look at the Ruger Old Army's rammer. I think Ruger should have called the Old Army, the "Super Whitney"! ;)
Marketed by "Joans Gun Shop"? The Spiller & Burrs were imported and marketed by Navy Arms in New Jersey, manufactured by Pietta.
Firing my navy I clean every single piece. From the barrel to the trigger and bolt I coat the frame in brasso and hand clean everything with whatever oil I have. And remove the nipples and wash them and the cylinder. I use factory nipples and I've never had a single hang fire or fowling delay
But I'm looking into a Remington and I'm going to build my own p53 enfeild off of Nepalese parts. Seeing as I'm 17 and short on cash I guess the Remington can wait.
Why are there no replicas of the Whitney revolver?
I have one
Great vid and nice hat too Mike!
Very enjoyable.
Finally. Love this and own two myself.
***** My first one was a very very cheap used one bought at a Civil War reenactment sold because the regiment he belonged to decided it was to rare of an original for him to use(still don't get some of the rules they follow). I think I paid $80 for it, the other one I bought new.
I'd really love to find a Whitney replica or two... but I haven't been having any luck. But I'd take a Spiller and Burr.
Thanks for the vid....a bit late I know but a friend just gave me one of these that he has never used....so.......
Good job bud... I think I am going to pick up one of these.
.177 paintball... Rubber pellet variant
Unpatented but the frame is by Whitney
For that reason
Use the Wesson
After the first year of the War, the South no longer had a critical small-arms shortage. Thanks to both Bull Runs, Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, Seven-Days, Valley Campaign, etc., the South was well-equipped with US arms thrown to the ground in the scurry to get back to Washington. Spiller and Burr couldn't get the material to fulfill the contract, but procurement through this source was no longer important. It's still a sore point with the U.S. Army; the UCMJ makes the "casting away of arms" a specific named offense. When running, losing that extra 10-pounds makes a difference.
Beautiful revolver......
Good review....Paper Pete ")
need one for the collection now
ty! Excellent video!
Great video Mike, I'm gonna try some of that Rand CLP...!!
thanks for the review 🖒
Mike, I followed your instructions on smoothing out my 1851 brass frame, and now I would like to know if you have done any similar videos on the Remington new army and the Spiller And Burr. I have recently acquired a Remington(Pietta), and am looking at a Spiller and Burr, also Pietta. Thanks.
I don't think I do. I'll consider putting one together.
@@duelist1954 Thank you. That would be a good video to have.
Thanks Mike.
Hey Mike, I found an article about issued cartridges during the civil war. while it varies quite a bit, it seems that on the low end there were 15 grain charges with 145 grain conicals and on the high end 21 grains with 141 grain conicals. Johnston and Dow was supposed to be 17 grains with the 150 grain conical. Apparently Colt recommended the 1851 have a 20 grain charge with a 140 grain conical and the 1862 have a slightly smaller conical with 15 grain charge. All that being said, the S&B seems to have a smaller capacity than the 1851 Navy, but perhaps a larger capacity than the 1862, do you know if there were would have been incompatibility with the S&B and some of the standard issue cartridges of the civil war?
I have the exact same replica and some times I have to manually nudge the cylinder till it clicks before I can pull back the hammer after a shot. I noticed may of had to do the same thing in the video. Is this a timing issue that can be fixed easy?
Alex Oelkers After you shoot the cylinder is out of battery, but not before you shoot? That would be unusual.
Beautiful
as always great vid thanks
Neat video!
good video
Love the video Mike. Been waiting to see a good video of one for a long time. Mine shoots very high as well. Since the rear sight isnt a notch in the hammer that i can deepen like on a Colt, how can i fix this?
I'm a relative of evil Roy and I'm hopping mad.
Great video Mike , tnanks !!!
I've got a queston :
Do the brass frame more weekliest than the the metal one?
Thank You ,have a nice day
Brass frames are weaker, but with the top strap design it isn't so much of a problem
@@duelist1954 Thank You for the answer !
@@duelist1954 i'm gonna buy one of this by Pietta
Wonder if the brass frame suffers from stretching after many firings? Brass frame stretching on the Colt models is a given, but the Spiller and Burns is a full frame gun complete with top strap.
It took me all of 2 minutes to thin my hammer to where it would fit in the notch between the caps.
I absolutely refuse to load a six shooter with five rounds, it's a six shooter it needs to be able to shoot six times!
Now this is my 36Cal i mentioned on the video you have on the 1858 new army. Its an 1862 Spiller and Burr It has a PN with a star over it so i think its a Pietta and the date marking is XXX but i cant seem to find the list for date conversions that i saw yesterday? lol so not sure when it was made? hehe So is it wise to buy a conversion cylinder for this brass framed gun?
I have not been able to find any videos on the 58 Remington Army brass frame Sheriff model ... Yes I am. Issuing a challenge :-)
Dear Nujw[
I really like the looks of this revolver, think I'll contact Dixie soon and get a pair. Looking at the snow makes me glad I live where I do, in the Sierra Nevada Mother Lode at about 3,200 feet elevation. We get a few snow storms every winter, but they almost always melt off in three to four days, and our dry weather returns, higher elevations get more, lots more, that stays all winter, mostly we get rain storms, and in an average year, about 40 inches of water from both snow and rain. Sure do like the looks of that revolver. How long will this revolver stay tight with 25 grain loads? Should less powder be used?
Best Wishes
Don Denison
Need some help. I'm ordering an Uberti 1858 New army .44 revolver and was wondering which brand and number percussion caps to use? I've heard that Remington #10 work well with the Piette 1858, but I also know there are subtle differences between Uberti and Pietta. Long question short, will the Remington #10 percussion caps work well on the Uberti and not have issues, such as being too small or large?
When you have a brass or bronze frame like that or with something like a Griswold do you have to worry about it failing? I mean do you have to be sure to keep your powder charge low or is it perfectly safe to use a normal charge?
Very accurate!
I have tons of questions about black powder, I'm going to dig up what I can on my own and narrow it down so I'm not wasting your time with common info, but I do have a basic physics question.. Do all fps readings happen from a recommended distance? Not that it matters much, but wouldn't the velocity slow the further away you shoot? Or is it not negligible enough to matter...?
Duelist, There is a Pietta version of this gun with a rear site. But they don't make it in brass. Its black I wish I could find one like yours with a rear rage site.
+FrustratedBaboon
That sounds like possibly a Whitney?
Mike, how about a review on percussion revolver loading stands. Are there any good ones out there
Have you had any problem with the brass frame warping?? Obviously brass warps a lot easier than steel.
Producing pistols with brass or bronze frames had nothing to do with the shortage of iron. The Confederacy only made a few thousand pistols, the amount of iron saved wouldn't have amounted to more than a few twelve pound balls. The reason for using brass was that it was much easier to work with than iron or steel, requiring less specialized tooling, and a much less sophisticated manufacturing processes.
Well there are a few problems with what you are saying. One, the confederacy ordered more than "a few thousand" failed pistol concepts, let alone the pistols they bought that did work.
Two, the confederacy bought those weapons but material problems would have started with the people manufacturing the weapons, usually privately owned factories, who were affected directly by trade embargoes and naval blockades. While brass is easier to work with, the reason for using brass was usually shortage of materials, and short deadlines given by either the union or the confederacy. There are at least two Texas companies who switched materials during production due to deadlines, and i. Sure iron wasn't that easy to get their hands on either, as both countries prepared for war.
Just to cement this over 2900 lemat revolvers were produced for the confederacy, and over 3700 Griswold were produced as well. Not to mention the guns that were sold to both sides
Have you found the full framed brass revolvers to be stronger than the open top brass colts like your first C&B?I noticed someone asked you a year ago about how the gun was holding up. Has the frame begun to stretch?Thanks!
Nope. Everything is fine so far...no stretching
+duelist1954 Thanks. I remember one time I owned a brass colt navy, I got it used and the arbor was slightly loose. I brought it to a gunsmith and he tried securing the arbor with JB weld. Everything was tight, until I shot it. after 7 shots it was looser than before. Anyway, thank you and keep up the good work.
JB Weld is as hard as cast iron . May be Bondo is more elastic for dissimilar joint ( at least in this app. ) materials ? Thanks
Always enjoy your articles and now your videos.
But "Kentucky Elevation"? Its "Kentucky Windage" and "Arkansas Elevation"!
Can it be loaded with conicals?
Nice pistol, it looks very sturdy. What is the building in the back ground, close to a main road, guess that's ok where you're at. wish we could plink like that down here in Georgia.
Building is the clubhouse here at the gun club.
Hello
Were any brass frame revolvers made during the Civil War era?
Im tols there wasn't. Just curious and how do u like the brass frame Traditions full frame .44 revolver?
Thanks
There were several brass-framed revolvers made in the South during the war, but a copy of the .44 caliber Remington was not one of them.
@@duelist1954
Ive tried researching and i guess im not good at it. Could u elaborate on which ones were produced as brass frames?
Thanks so much.
So the clp works good at stopping the corrosive effects of black powder?
I'm guessing that 18 gr. Would be your max charge with that brass frame. ??????
That first shot at 1:05, did it drop a cap when you cocked it for the second shot?
Paper Pete ROFL!!!
would i like have to worry about shooting one of these loose after sustained use? or would you reckon the beefy(although brass) frame would stand up to a steady diet of 20 grain loads if i were to use these for CAS?
I think it will hold up.
@@duelist1954 thanks Mike!
Mike, I have one of these revolvers, and am trying to find a good fitting holster. Any suggestions?
You mentioned you are using 18 grain loads, is that the recommended load or is that a light load? I've been using 20 grains in my brass frame .44 Remington repo, Do you think it would be safe to bump it up to 30 grains? The documentation that came with the weapon was sparse and sketchy.
+TruAnRksT This gun is a 36 caliber. the chambers aren't big enough for a 30-grain charge. 18 grains is as much powder as you'll be able to get in and still fit a wad and ball. You could possibly get 22 grains in if you forgo the wads and lightly grease the chamber mouths.
duelist1954
Yeah, I was asking advice on my .44.
I shoot 30 grains of 3F or pyrodex in my brass 44 navy with no troubles. So I'm sure a Remington could handle it. I'm not a fan of pyrodex though
The Unknown decepticon
Thanks for the reply, I know the cylinder and barrel can handle it, but I worry about possible long term frame stretch.
@Dave H You may be able to find a small thin brass washer to fit behind the cylinder but if there is slop there then there may be a small amount of stretch. Or I just don't understand what you are saying.
Mike. I bought a repro Spiller and Burr. Have not had a chance to fire it. The trigger is extremely hard to fire and hammer cocking is very stiff. Since the handgrip is not as long as a colt or 1858 I noticed the mainspring had been slightly bent in two places and is very thick it seems. Is the trigger pull weight a function of the mainspring or the trigger/bolt spring. Thanks.
Dukeq27 both, but the main spring has the most influence
I have two, one of them I noticed trigger is extremely hard to fire and hammer cocking is very stiff, and the other is as smooth as butter.
Thank You Mike. I got most things sorted our including a broken hand spring which I replaced but needed serious fitting to replace. Now I seem to have a problem with the cylinder pin screw, pin and roller assembly which seems to be rotating freely. I am afraid of using too much torque on the screw and strip the screw heads. Should that screw turn and tighten? Thanks Again.
Whenever that stuff starts happening I generally move to the other end of the range . People mixing ( going to need work themselves ) had better back off there charge . Thanks
So Mike, is the brass frame holding up? Can you recommend it? I have two steel frames and one brass frame colt, and I really prefer how the brass one shoots
It is doing fine because I rarely shoot it, and, even in brass the top strap strengthens the frame. My first C&B revolver was a brass-framed '51 Navy in .36 in 1972. I shot it with 22 grains of powder. I'd have at least one range day a week, sometimes two or three. Within a year I had shot it loose. After two years I had an eighth of an inch barrel cylinder gap. Eventually the barrel cylinder gap was so big that I'd have to pull the cylinder back onto the bolt before I shot it. That was my last brass-framed gun for over 40 years. I bought two last year, but the are really example pieces. The S&B and a Griswold. For real shooting, I use my steel framed guns.
Humm . Some quick math . Average twice/ week , guestimating 50rd per session .
So +/- 5k rounds to be noticeable loosening, +/- 10k round to be unservicable .
Figure a huge percentage of casual owners shoot less than 500rds total , probably more like 200 lifetime round count .
Conversely , people who do really take to C&B shooting , and shoot multiple times per week , will probably also be inclined to acquire multiple revolvers , spreading out the round counts for each .
Do you have to lower load due to the brass frame like the other pistols?
I don't. With the top strap it seem to matter.
Where did you get your Spiller and Burr? The places I've checked they are out of stock. Thanks
I got mine from Dixie Gunworks.
I'm having some difficulty finding .454 balls for my .44 cal 1860 army and a .44 1851 navy. herd you say you were using .38 .cal balls for your .36 .cal gun, do you think I could use .490 cal balls without stressing the loading levers? always enjoy your videos thanks.
No. That would be huge. Typically you load .375 balls into a .36 caliber revolver, so .380 isn't too oversized...only 0.005", you are talking about going to a ball that is 0.05 oversize...10 times more oversized than the ball I'm using.
duelist1954 thanks guess i'll have to get a .454 mold and melt the .490's down.
Is it possible to do a cartridge conversion with this pistol in the same fashion as the 1858 Remington with the cartridge conversion cylinders??
Not with a brass frame. It wouldn't be strong enough
FireClean man
One thing I wonder-why is this being reproduced but not the Original Whitney?
I don't know. I may have to talk to Pietta about that. They made steel-framed Whitney replicas...maybe 20 years ago
@@duelist1954 It's just something I wondered. The Whitney was one of the most widely distributed revolvers in the Civil War and probably the most popular .36 after the Colt 1851 Navy. It seems strange they wouldn't make replicas of that.
I just got a used S&B reproduction for a great price and I find it will sometimes over rotate the cylinder when cocking the hammer. If I cock it hard with authority it is fine but if I cock it rather slowly without thinking about it the cylinder kind of jumps ahead and doesn't lock in place (if you know what I mean?) How do I fix this?
Your hand may be too long. File it down, just a tiny bit at a time, then reassemble and try it...repeat until it works.
@@duelist1954 Thank you for the fast reply! I really enjoy your channel and the time you put into it.
Why are there no Whitney replicas?
+Val Martin
Good question! Seems it should be one of the best .36s made.
+Val Martin They don't sell.
Who cares , I'm ordering my Spiller and Burr now . You northerners got it all anyways .
tannstang because they aren't made
Percieved demand . To the non History Nerd , it would look too much like a brass frame Remington .
I've been trying to find one of these for the past couple of years with no luck. Any idea where I can get one.
Dixie Gun Works has them in stock
Cabelas has two sizes in stock right now !
@@californiacowboy3936 Two sizes of Spiller & Burrs?? Can you explain more about them?
@toddy2519 i think he is confusing a brass frame remington new model army with brass fram for a spiller and bur. They are different revolvers but look similar enough. The spiller cant hot swap cylinders tho. And its in .36 cal not .44 cal.
Now got find the clp around here
Hey Mike, why is it you sometimes call them "revolvers" and other times "pistols?" Is there a difference, or are those names interchangeable?
Recent usage is for revolvers and pistols to be considered separate categories, where, essentially, any handgun that isn't a revolver being called a pistol...usually autoloaders or single shots. But, historically revolvers were called pistols in the 19th and most of the 20th century. Lately though, some folks get a little snippy if you call a revolver a pistol.
duelist1954
Thanks for responding so quickly, Mike! Is there any chance anyone makes shootable Volcanic pistols? I've been playing Red Dead Redemption lately, and I've always wanted to see up close how that thing actually fires and reloads.
"Pistol" derives from the Italian city of Pistoia, that began in the 16th century, making (they did not invent them) firearms primarily for use with one hand, thus generically referred to as pistols. ANY firearm designed primarily for use with one hand is thus called a pistol. There can be many types of pistols, wheel locks, flintlocks, percussion, lever action (Volcanic), single shots, self-loading (or "automatics") and also pistols with revolving cylinders-REVOLVERS. Anyone who doesn't consider a revolver as a type of pistol, essentially showing their ignorance, is not as learned on guns as they think. You are nice at calling them "snippy" other words not suitable for a nice site as yours come to my mind. Handgun is synonymous with pistol. (Although hand gonne is something completely different.) Anyway, always enjoy your videos and your articles. Maybe you can use your influence with Uberti or Pietta and get them to make a Volcanic Pistol replica (using a conventional cartridge rather than a rocket ball hopefully.) At least two of use are interested.
como faço para entrar em contato com esse homem ?
I just bought a Whitney replica are S&B parts interchangeable?
taylorman1949 l can't say for certain, but I would expect them to be.
Paper Pete? How about Pernicious Pete? or Maybe Pecos Pete... just a suggestion...
I have been asking around and I need info from an experienced owner of c&b revolvers. Does the brass frame stretch over time.
Unfortunately, all brass framed revolvers will suffer from stretching eventually.
Old post my new reply.
With all the CNC machines out there. Maybe some one can build a frame from steel.