Chat tries to make a Good Map for 100 player tf2. it's actually ok?
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- Опубліковано 27 гру 2023
- 24/7 100 PLAYER TF2 SERVER INFO
search for the "shounic" tag in the server browser, server name is "shounic trenches"
or: add | 45.62.160.71:27015 | to your server browser favorites
also / discord -- important updates, info, voting, report a player & appeals: bans/mutes
(7800X3D hosted in chicago, physgun.com bare metal)
channel discord --- / discord
channel patreon --- / shounic
channel tracker --- trello.com/b/L3B65jUX
[ todo list / current progress on upcoming videos / channel roadmap ]
feedback --- forms.gle/bkuGF6attQrRPc6o9
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[ hud / crosshairs / hitsound / killsound / gfx cfg ]
Music: BananaSlug ( / user-426347780 )
big thanks to:
livetream viewers for enduring :D
FAQ:
Q: How did you make that? What editing software do you use?
A: I use Adobe Photoshop, Premiere Pro & After Effects. Photoshop for image editing and thumbnails. Premiere Pro for compositing and After Effects for motion graphics (the fancy animations). - Ігри
hi. this is the 100 player server community discord: discord.gg/5RutXa3dGh
if you want to art pass the map: visit #pl_dbz_artpass
if you want to participate in democratically making a map: #mapping-votes (& #mapping-info)
^ the first vote is already going right now
both of these channels are near the bottom
on another note, hope the video was ok! i think there's some flaws in the structuring of this video but i also can't solve them without being aware of them going into the livestreams. live and learn i suppose /shrug. also yeah this took me like a whole month to make because it was 11 days of livestreaming into like 10 days to make the video ;_; the previous chat koth map only took 2 days of livestreaming so i thought SURELY it can't be that much more time.....
merry christmas / happy new year! i hope to continue improving at making worthwhile videos to watch next year :)
thanks shounic
Thank you, and I wish you a happy new year as well. This map was a struggle, but we made many friends along the way such as Ponds34.
I hope you do a video of all the art passed versions.
@@green929392 same i think shounic fans will take it really far with how unique their maps will get
I love how there's more democracy in this tf2 map than the U.S. government system
I love how the "THE FUCKED UP AND AWFUL SPIRAL" remained a key part of the map throughout
Don't forget the COW!
That gives the map its distinct character.
Hey I mean it's a cool landmark of interest, that always makes a map stand out
I don't even play TF2 (how did I end up here?) and I can just imagine absolutely nobody in chat arguing its removal more than once where they were vehemently shut down. You'd have to be crazy to remove a central fixture like that, at least without trying desperately to make it work first.
The FUCKED UP AND AWFUL SPIRAL is what makes this map really interesting to me, honestly. It shouldn't have been considered for removal.
I love how chat just hates snipers and most of the additions were just to eliminate sightlines.
He breaks the gameplay, this is the same server that tested what would happen if you removed sniper, and the only thing that changed was people had more fun.
@@Jpmrocks7 He doesn't though. As you say literally nothing changed. So why ruining a class that exists and some people enjoy playing it? Bad decisions.
@@fantastikboom1094 He doesn't break the gameplay, but he breaks fun. I'd rather 8/9ths of the players have more fun at the expense of 1/9th than the other way around.
@@fantastikboom1094 Sniper doesn't need removing, but his gameplay definitely needs to be reworked. The fact that he can get 3x damage by holding right click seems... like seriously, what is the purpose of the charge? Scoping in doesn't really cost anything. Also vapor trails on all weapons for fairness, the dot just doesn't work with the open air map design.
@@PlatinumAltaria ive had this idea for years about sniper having terrible vision (he does wear glasses) and when he scopes in he cant see clearly above or under a certain distance, which would also functionally gimp his damage and remove his ability to quickscope. hell, id even be for lowering the max charge headshot dmg to 300 and max quickscope headshot dmg to 100, just to give people a chance to actually fight back or flee.
That's so sick! As for art-passing, I love that you can kind of already see a theme emerging just with the stage hazards and general vibes; it starts off as a dinky mining town, as so many TF2 maps do, before expanding to reveal it's actually a serious industrial operation in a big dramatic crystal cave.
Then, it further develops into a full-on sci-fi research facility, where they are using the mined crystals for mad science experiments right on-site!
You could even have DBZ be an acronym for the organisation doing the mining and experiments, or for the facility itself, like the Diamond Bifurcation Zone or something like that
The big spiral section is just asking to be themed into a platform for a massive drill.
be cool if someone actually went ahead and art passed it.
No crystal cave pls. Too cliche. Also, they should rename the map. DBZ will be memed to death because of Dragon Ball Z.
dragon ball z
Is like they're trying to resurrect the moon map from premeatyourmatch.
That's not a resonance cascade, that's an anti-mass spectrometer
It caused the resonance cascade.
Shounic doesn't need to hear all that! He is a highly trained professional
Resonance cascade device
The alien invasion machine
Spinny machine :D
NO GORDON, DONT PUT THAT CHICKEN NUGGET IN THERE!
I cant believe shounic refused to acknowledge the strategic alligator pit behind reds final spawn that let out a constant cacophany that is INTEGRAL to this map
I haven't played tf2 in years, i just wanted to acknowledge "Strategic alligator pit" as a new phrase xD
When you said that the map name was "DBZ", I thought of Goku joining Blue Team and saying
"Hey, I heard this point is pretty tough. Can I fight it?"
DBZ spiral solos Goku no diff
* freeza enters red *
*NO WAY I'M LETTING YOU WIN, MONKEY!*
I mean, saxton is pretty much in universe goku
Next, chat pays a professional mapper to art pass it.
And with the Half life reference at the end, it might as well be a Black Mesa themed map.
No. They should make the art collaborative. Many artists working on the map. This is a community project after all.
Starts out as some kinda town, turns into a mining operation, then a facility-
@@stupidratt >Dusk
eat rocks @@-AAA-147
@@stupidratt "jokes on you im into that sh*t!"
Hi shounic. PLEASE let the votes be hidden in the discord portion. I've seen a lot of discord votes go to shot because someone just down votes anything on post and the herd follows the most popular vote (up/down).
Hiding the votes would help ensure a fair process
Yes, this! Humans will always be unbiased, but this would make it just a bit more fair.
@@IceFlower22 Humans will always be [biased]*
@@ponponpatapon9670 oh, oops. Thank you for correcting me! I hadn't noticed that
whoever art-passes it needs to hide a png of Goku in some obscure location
nah we need buff engineer pic somewhere in there
@@idkbro870they act like 2 legends cannot coexist
okay but who'd fucking win? Goku or buff engie?
@@idkbro870 goku in a buff engi cosplay
out of the many, many brilliantly terrible amazing features of this map, my personal favourite is how the cart just flops after reaching the end. so anticlimatic. so beautiful.
honestly, i hope it stays that way. the funny anticlimax just adds to the whole "so bad its good" charm
@@Underworlder5 frfr i love it so much lmao
@@Underworlder5but make the resonance cascade device itself explode turning everything into wreckage, but with the cart staying still there.
Since you guys already added the test chamber from half life, you might as well make this whole map themed around black mesa. The cart could even have a xen crystal that is about to be delivered.
lore could be that RED and BLU are both opposing organizations of time travelers, with RED trying to prevent the Black Mesa Incident from occurring, and BLU being from the subsequent reality where RED succeeded but now they have to ensure the invasion of Earth occurs.
pl_anomalousmaterials
@@SaintRedFox We can go deeper. We could give the map purpose and a proper name by having it be where they got the crystal. Blast-mining in the mining cave. Boom, pl_deepblastzone
@@SaintRedFox pl_anomat
I always headcanoned it in TF Classic (due to it sharing art assets) that the Blue Team mercs were actually mercs hired by Black Mesa as a security force to protect the facility from outside threats or saboteurs and the Red Team mercs were hired by the government to augment the HECU force. But they both ended up tying each other down on the surface.
I dunno it just made the matches feel like they had more meaning to it
Since Blu Team here is escorting the payload (which could be the Xen Crystal cart from HL1) to the Anti-Mass Spectrometer (maybe it reverses the resonance cascade somehow? Like turning something on and off again??) they can play the role of Black Mesa affiliated mercs again while Red Team are like I dunno hired to stop them because they don't want a Double Resonance Cascade
alternate answer better fitting the TF2 universe, would be both teams were brought forwards in time. Red Team was hired by members of the Resistance in HL2 to avert the Resonance Cascade which brought the Combine and Blu team was hired by Black Mesa to continue the experiment by force if necessary, believing Red Team to have been hired by Aperture as saboteurs.
if the person remastering the map to give it a proper art pass goes the extra mile make the Red Team announcer Eli Vance from HL2 and make the Blu Team announcer young Eli Vance from HL1
This was really fun, and it was pretty cool to see all the different drawings and ideas we had to vote on. but damn we are bad at map making
to be fair the most iconic part of this map, the spiral, is a borderline impossible idea to balance
@@fortnitesexman
I don't think that's true. It is possible to balance the spiral if instead of balancing the spiral, you balance everything around it. The spiral is a point of difficulty for blue, however, if you design that part of the map to give every other advantage to blue, it will be balanced.
@@En.GergerRacc "borderline"
Cool pfp
@@HaxxorElite thanks bro
that spiral seems like such a cool map feature, pretty reminiscent of thundermountain final. and also with the mining theme i think that spiral could be part of like a giant drill or something which would be insanely cool looking
A drill with random fences and a glass on it... sounds real
@fantastikboom1094 be creative, change the glass into crystal chunks, make the base of the drill a big, fractured crystal.
@@mikesinibaldi5918 That's not creative, that's nonsensical bs bro
@fantastikboom1094 The map seems to be leaning into a cave theme. Why not have giant crystals be part of the set dressing. If you think that would be hard to model, I actually agree with you, but nonsensical? Nah, this game has giant bread monsters and spytech stuff. A secret crystal mining facility isn't that far-fetched. They could even make the final objective something like a big lazer weapon they're building with the crystals!
@@mikesinibaldi5918 You know, actually I agree with you. TF2 isn't realistic at all and not all of its maps are close to somewhat realistic, so yeah.
It was a pleasure to be apart of this horrid experiment.
Truly 😂
I saw the reference that y'all put there...
Very clever, may i add.
The real challenge is making a map good enough to be officially accepted. I think its improbable but not impossible
Remember they added wutville
@@funkey6737 from what i remember, even the creator of that map was surprised it got added to official servers
The thing is, 100 players requires some major changes and plugins to work properly, turning off cosmetics just being the beginning. That is to say, it's sadly very unlikely any 100-player maps will be made official.
0:38 i love how the initial concept art for the payload’s route described “THE FUCKED UP AND AWFUL SPIRAL”, which… for mapmaking purposes, that’s exactly what it was
As someone who was part of Pirates Vikings and Knights II's development team for eight years and saw many maps stuck in development hell, seeing a playable TF2 map designed like this in under two weeks is mighty impressive, to say the least.
Yooooo that game utterly consumed my teen years. Still holds a spot in my heart. Got any stories to share?
@@springbubble4931 Honestly, quite a shitshow when I left.
TL;DR a dev member managed to get the game's source code and holds it hostage, making him the de facto lead dev. If anyone opposed this ideas for the game, either you'd leave the team or he'd fork the source code. This resulted in a lot of dev members leaving, both old and new, lots of feature creep and a ton of toxic drama behind the scenes. Not only that, but we delt with a server owner that would often leak players IPs.
In short, PVKII's twilight years are sadly quite bleak, but at least I made friends along the way, some of which are making big strides in the gaming industry.
As for favorite episode with the team? Definitely the Antichrist Beserker. In short, a glitch in the map Arena made a player's corpse spawns T-posing in the air, right in the middle of the map. The first time we noticed the glitch it was with a headless model of the Berserker while I was on Spectator Mode, and with the volcano erupting on Sudden Death, it made for an ominous image. I took a screenshot and share it to the (now defunct) forum with the label "The Antichrist has Resurrected". By sheer coincidence, it was my 666th post in the forums.
The payload spiral and bottomless cave look genuinely unique from a gameplay standpoint, and I think such setpieces are definitely worth the trouble of balancing them.
Yeah, I'm in favour of having a single standout element of a design, and working around that element, rather than changing it to such an extent that you undermine its distinctiveness.
@@tbotalpha8133
l'm personally of the mindset that an endearing map starts off by having gameplay-unique/wacky setpieces on *_every single point,_* after which all of these setpieces are then carefully and meticuously *_balanced around_* the uniqueness/wackiness of them; Gravel Pit, Mountain Lab, Egypt, Doublecross, Pelican Peak, Sawmill, Nucleus, Kong King, Badlands, Yukon, Freight, Powerhouse, Badwater, Cashworks, Phoenix, Pipeline, Banana Bay, even wackier stuff like Pass Time's District and Balloon Race, they're all maps l fondly remember for all the distinct gameplay setpieces they have.
You'll notice the similarly distinct lack of halloween maps in that list btw; that's because, on top of being seasonal-only, they mostly rely on chaotic gimmicks for their gameplay feel, so whatever unique setpieces the maps themselves might have are always left to the wayside (if they even have unique setpieces at all).
map design is perhaps the one thing id like to see get more experiemental in tf2 just to see how it feels
Map design is hard like this, having to strike a balance between unique setpieces and balancing them definitely seems extremely difficult
This was one of my favorite times interacting with the tf2 community as an amateur mapper. Watching the map develop and even getting one of my submissions to the final couple one time was so much fun. I would kill to see something like this happen again!
Ok, I am surprised that you managed to actually playtest it enough to figure out these different ways of balancing, which also made the map look prettier; that's fun
I also really like the idea of the map, for some reason these cliffs are really aesthetically pleasant to me. Idk, I don't feel the same towards Upward, it looks overall more like a hill except for a few places. And the spiral tower is just fun, it has some vibes to it
Random fences make map look prettier?
niko
Is the back ground and your brain replacing the no texture ground into rock to some what dirt roads (red)/tracks(blu)
I think it'd be really cool to see a professional like UEAKCrash give it a once-over to tighten it up and streamline the gameplay
This map *genuinely* has some good design- mainly about vertical mobility and using the 3 dimensions in their fullest.
Genuinely, if this map got some polish and a theme fix, it's likely to be a really stupidly good map. It already has the makings of a decent mine, what with the cliff and the really cool wide open cave part.
the payload will cause an alien invasion and red tries to avoid that
Other way round, RED's experiments are going to cause the invasion - the crystal cave being where they get the research samples - and BLU's trying to sabotage the operation to prevent that.
"Let's see dem aliens. They can't stop us all!"
area 51 raid in a nutshell
What if the Spiral was instead a massive drill?
With the two story cave, a mining/resource gathering theme seems plausible.
the jump pad in the middle is actually like a suction to suck up any ore
@@Xenomorthian Oh, could also have one of those giant earth movers in the background or even on the map too.
Those things are insane Feats of engineering seeing as how they're the biggest man-operated vehicle in the world.
"My Hermès got that hell hole running so efficiently that all physical labor is now done by one Australian man.”
"That's a real piece of piss ya mongrels"
chat really just had to sneak a little amogus in there, didn't they
3:24 I kinda love how you’re completely factual doing as the peanut gallery demands but pointing out where they were being goobers
Im so glad i was able to participate for the making of this one, even though none of my shitty ideas got added the playtesting was incredibly fun. Never forget bad to the bone or the pan shed.
to be fair to chat, a 7/10 map is probably better than a good number of regular tf2 maps with 100 players
especially since some of the maps on the server are almost deliberately some of the most obnoxious, spammy maps you could imagine (hello dustbowl)
It would be very cool if you'll show off the artpassed version of the map when it's done by somebody and accepted. Maybe even several versions, if there will be any!
Democracy is fucking epic I wish we had it in real life instead of a 2 party system
Go to any country outside america
democracy only functions when everyone is working together for a common interest and group i.e it functions here but not in most modern nations
@@segadoeswhatnintendont I'm from the UK we have the exact same problem ATM
@@segadoeswhatnintendont LMAO he thinks his country is special when it comes to political corruption.
@@segadoeswhatnintendont It ends up the same way organically.
this is genuinely so cool, and "tactical cow" made me laugh WAY too hard
This whole map remineds me of the Black Mesa facility, having a cart, weird architecture and structures, rocket launchpad and whole theme seems simillar.
man this is a really nice way to brainstorm ideas
It was fun, but the map design part were a nightmare lmao
I dunno, with the half life rocket and AMS it lends itself pretty good two a black Mesa facility
5:03
Shounic: a glass window was added here
Engi: YEEEEE-
It makes sense why the tower was actually helpful to Blue. Previously, red could be anywhere, and could hold the area around the bridges/trenches and spam into blue spawn or down at flanking blue players in the trench.
By adding the tower, it makes the area behind it safe, and immediately in front of it unsafe Additionally, players pushing out from the tower come out from either side, then either take a bridge or go into the trench. This means Blue can actually make tactical decisions on how to deal with Red being in-front of the tower, while Red is incentivized to hold behind the tower.
the collaboration and how much people have helped out is insane
The play testing helped a lot with this map, not many map creators have the opportunity to play test with so many people
The spiral is asking to be a drill
8:52 you can see a heavy aimbotting lol
This is genuinely cool, I'm really looking forward to how future maps turn out.
The audio clip at the end PERFECTLY sums up this idea, congratulations on making something this impressive using TF2 players of all people
Thanks Shounic! Keep it up! It was really fun to playtest this!
I’d absolutely LOVE to see more of this.
Glad to have had my impact on the map, being the trench idea right at the start.
Would be sick if this became a legit Black Mesa themed map by the final point. Maybe the cart could be a xen crystal deposit cart!
This was actually so fun to take part in, hope for more streams like this in the future!
Really cool map, and it was neat seeing players identify the map issues and also provide solutions to fix them. I'm sure this wasn't an easy process but what a great way to play test a map.
After having seen almost the entire development of the map from the beginning and having played on it, I am surprised with the result and in general I really liked the experience
y'know. this whole experiment was really well in showcasing different tf2 mapping philosophy and requirements. here hoping similar experiments will be run later
Experimenting around the map while it was in testing was really fun! And in my opinion i think the finished product turned out great :)
-removed sightlines
"must be for snipers"
the 25 demomen roleplaying as an artillery piece:
I was lucky to catch the mapping streams and I got to play it as it changed. Overall it was a very fun experience
This map/video genuinely brought back my interest in TF2. Now, if there's EU server to try this stuff on...
I think it's super cool that you're making maps balanced specifically for the 100 man server. You should keep working on it. It could become a 100 man mainstay. ^^
My favorite part about this video is how chat and pretty much the TF2 community in general, agrees that playing against snipers suck. Almost half of the changes made were to give snipers a huge middle finger.
Except the experiment we did showed that removing sniper from the game doesn't affect anything and therefore anything you have against sniper is all in your head.
@@shinobuoshino5066 "respect the sightline" mfs when the sight "line" is 300 acres of land:
@@2fifty533 you must be incredibly good at the game
And yet chat throughout this whole map design still agreed to put as many sightlines up as possible, so your point doesn't really mean anything at all even if it's true. @@shinobuoshino5066
@@shinobuoshino5066 You must have seen a different experiment to us, because I distinctly remember the takeaway from that being that the removal of Sniper has no *negative* effect.
More map making please! This seems fascinating
Looking forward to seeing what comes from future attempts at this! Things will only improve as the voters think more about what makes a good map good.
The crocodiles on red for the cave made me go insane.
This was awesome :3c Glad to see the spiral launchpad made it in lmfao, it was an honor to help with some parts of this map early on :)
It would be cool if you could cover the art- passed versions once some of them are released
The gummy crocpit was the best part about the last point and it wasn't even mentioned
This shows how much thought goes into a map being made
2:32 if you look at this battlefield carefully, you can find a T-posing demoman with the base jumper
where’s the giant shounic….
I feel like 100 player maps need to lean into those "magical moments" where one or both teams pours into an enclosed space and the descent into chaos that results. Needs more chokepoints
We can't just forget the name of the map is "pl_DBZ" What a wonderful name
Knowing the source engine and it's distain for concave objects, that spiral must have been an absolute *nightmare* to set up.
Yeah...it probably was.
as for many arguments on streams, we finally as a community accomplished something we thought was impossible.
good job everyone.
Love it. Love 100 player maps, love this map, love how it was made. Want to see some gameplay.
completely rad. I love this experiment in directly-driven active community input for game design.
seize the means of map design!
That Anti-mass Spectrometer at the end has me thinking about what could be implemented via VScript. Like having an event tied to the final capture that changes teleports some nearby folks to a Xen chunk of map and disables their team-associations. Spawn in AI controlled headcrabs and/or HECU troopers, MVM style. Allow the Rocket to fire to allow Red to counter in a "natural" gameplay way, referencing the satellite delivery rocket in HL1. Neat stuff the folks made here.
As other comments have said, I think hiding the vote counts on the server channel would be a good thing to combat herd mentality on design choices. In theory if more people thought for themselves the decisions would be closer in vote count with less huge swings in one direction or another
Can’t wait for the next map video.
I think this video will stand as a good example for map makers going forward, since it feels like everyone who voted learned as they went along. Loved hearing about all the little beneficial changes they made as serious problem points became apparent.
this made me appreciate well crafted maps a lot.
I am definitely interested in artpassing this!
I love this map. It looks awesome. The trenches, the tunnels, the big spiral, all that stuff look great. All thanks to playtesting.
Keep in mind, Valve's biggest contribution to humanity, aside from the games, was the ideology of creepily watching people silently play your game, to tweak it.
if you’re gonna have a resonance cascade be the ending you might as well make the rest of the map look like black mesa
It's an amalgamation of player preference, I love this idea.
I really loved watching and partially helping with the creation of this zany map. I'm glad my silly fish map idea was quickly rejected.
8:33 that "two story cave" looks like Halo 2's Lockout map mixed with Midship. That could just be a coincidence though. The purple lighting around it reminds me of midship, but the layout is closer to Lockout.
I feel like the main change that the spiral section needed was just *making the spiral taller than the mountain* so BLU has some high ground to fire down from.
I'm very impressed with the map, really feels like the map has a direction and gameplay sense
Also a better offering of choices and community participation makes more pleasing than the experiment from before
Very nicely done
I love this.
It's like watching an entirely new kind of game being made.
I don’t know why, but the cave is actually pretty cool! I say whoever details it, put some Mercenary park plants in there like hanging vines and roots. In fact, a lush desert! That’s rare!
Looks sick! If the spiral isn’t turned into a giant mining drill in the final version, that will feel like a huge missed opportunity.
darn I should've paid more attention to that server so I could be in on the testing of the various versions before current beta release
I was expecting this video to be a meme but it was actually a pretty cool lesson about map design
I like maps with simple textures a lot and this is great!
0:40 : The fucked up and awful spiral. I can visualize the TF2 devs landing this comment somewhere in the code if they made this map.
This is such a funny and good community project !!!!
Please keep making these videos, they fill my need for Hammer++ after waiting a decade for Source 2.
I wonder what a polished up and decorated version of this map would look like
Pleeeease, make it a regular thing, this is so entertaining!
You've earned my subscription. Gg
Honestly some of the coolest tf2 content.
I feel like the map is a bit too open in where it should be a little bit more enclosed
The mountain itself reminds me of the absolute haul on Thundermountain
It has to fit 100 players though. That's probably why its very open.