edit dec 28th 2023: changed the thumbnail :) (server in description) chat makes a (serious) 100 player tf2 map -> Dec 6th 12 PM EST // though this might change depending on when valve releases smissmas. i'll post updates in #important-alerts here -> discord.gg/E2zYGKAH3q also please lmk if you have any feedback on the video. first real go at talking about a map like this in a video, hope it was coherent. any questions i should've answered or topics i should've explored?
Agreed, that's a very cool idea. This map is basically a brainstorm of a chat with some cool ideas, and I do want for someone to make map with 2 koth points. That will make them much more interesting and more classes will be viable in the fight, cuz usually it all ends up with powerclass just doing a lot of AOE damage and killing everyone.
KOTH DEMOCRACYIS THE REELEST MAP THERE Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little more about mapping than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor.
I love that the key areas of the map have distinct, recognizable callouts like "Snakewater" and "Vents." This map is gonna take the competitive scene by storm.
While not quite the same as how it works in this video, dom_cliffhanger is a map that I think is pretty neat. It's a koth map with 5 separate points, but your team's timer goes down faster if you control more points. So if you control all 5 points, your timer counts down 5 seconds at a time instead of one. I've never been able to play on the map against real people before, but I tried running bots on it and it was pretty fun to roam around trying to take all the points.
Yup. A perfect example is an absolutely ancient map from I would guess 2008 called "2f2f_directional_dinosaurs_a1". It is a bunch of sloppy, haphazard geometry with a koth point in the center surrounded by rotating brontosauruses. One of them has a rocket strapped to its back. If you search hard enough you can find it.
@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Well, I know it's almost certainly someone who played on the legendary server 2fort2furious back in the day hence the prefix. The owner FLOOR_MASTER is behind the classic Team Roomba Griefing vids and also made cp_steel, and another regular there Mangycarface or some shit made pl_Frontier. I used to play there ages ago but most of them moved on.
@@Geebanger0 Reminds me of the Arathi Basin battleground from World of Warcraft. Instead of a timer, you're trying to be first to 1500 score. There are five capture points, each point you own gives you 5 score per second. So the battle is very dynamic and requires a balance of defense and offense. I bet a similar gamemode could work well in TF2. Maybe with three points instead of five, just to simplify things.
Id love to see someone make a cleaned up version or the map, making it fit more aesthetically with tf2s map style, and maybe fixing up the walls and corridors and whatnot to not be pure floating planes
I can see this map being mining related, the central CP could be underground with the different bumping kart corridors being tunnels and on top of them the other 2 CPs
There's a lot of gimmick maps like that. koth_foolsgrid, pl_cooler_badwater, koth_wubwubwub_remix. I used to run a community server and searched high and low for tasteful gimmick maps. Makes me sad I don't have enough time to start it again.
Honestly though I’d genuinely really love to see a legitimately serious map made for 100 player servers. Like, a gargantuan 8 point payload map or something.
And that's where you make 2 CP KotH maps! So you have 25v25×2 or a massive incursion on one side that lets the other point's defenders to hit 'em in a back
As a map maker, this really hurts to watch. Also I'm not surprised in the slightest that Egan took a look at this and decided to fix it up lol. This is right up his alley
There's a gamemode from Unreal Tournament similar to this KOTH setup, called "Domination". There are multiple capture zones around the map, that generate team points as long as they are held. Team with most of those points at end of the round timer, wins. In first UT its usually 3 or 4 points, and in UT2004 its only 2 points. The gamemode is very chaotic with players separating into fragmented defenders to hold multiple zones, and one focused group of attackers. Gamemode also has no specified spawn point, players respawn where-ever their teammates are, in order to eliminate the bias of capture zones being too close to one team's spawn. When comes to Team Fortress 2, one would need script this kind of respawn mechanic, because each of those "Dustbowls" are going to be so fortified with sentries, that the map will just turn into regular KOTH (although the hazardous difficulty on middle point does make players prefer dustbowl ones) or it will be a deathmatch stalemate unless one team just steamrolls. There's definitely potential for a fun new gamemode but I'd advise map makers to take notes from Unreal Tournament's Domination mode and experiment with 2-5 capture points, and especially, be wary of dem darn Engi's sentry nests throwing a wrench into map's balance.
personally i suggest selecting a council of like 10 random people from chat to decide what decisions are voted on by the rest of chat, democracy by sortition and all that
This is the beauty of emergent gameplay and giving players tools to create : yes, most of the results are utter rubbish, but you can get some genuinely interesting and creative ideas/concepts and some genuinely good interactions that you wouldn't really get anywhere else. The triple KOTH point creates what I can only term as "asymmetric balance", where the losing team is never 100% on the back foot and always has one or two other options to come back, breaking up the bunched-up winning team. The karts were clearly not originally designed for regular gameplay, but it somehow works here, on top of the scenarios you brought up. There are, of course, some serious issues, namely, non-jump classes' mobility is shot and it's aesthetically a complete mess, but reined in a little, you could probably make an actual map out of it. Let's see how the more serious attempt goes.
It takes an impressive amount of control for Shounic to sound as stoic as he was while going over every detail that chat said should be added to the map's design
Multiple control points serving as one is in all honestly an incredible idea. I'd like to see it implemented in a not-a-meme-map so we can learn more how it works. Besides being a way to keep KOTH dynamic, it sounds like a good idea to spread the fighting out some more, as said about the Dustbowl last cap points.
you should try to make a salvageable enjoyable map out of this, with all the wacky ideas kept but balanced and with actual yknow, walls and proper map design lmao
I love that it has the design choice that every group designed thing bas where the final design decisions ruins literally everything that came before it.
This reminds me alot of that one cp orange map that had the spawn points as big towers being able to go through the bottom or through the top while also having a weird underground maze The only thing that wasnt similar was the big pit, there being sniper sightlines along the walls and it being a 5 cp map
Honestly, the idea of 3 cap points, all working towards a unified capture is a really interesting idea I think. If you introduced some method(s) of keeping people moving and circling to other points, or at least encouraging that, it would make for such an interesting dynamic; maybe there are hammers over the two points closest to each team's spawn, that strike down, killing whoever is standing there or some other similar thing. Then again, even just having points close to each team's spawn would likely be enough to encourage moving between them.
i'd like to mention the idea of one koth point being represented by multiple other points actually has existed in COD for a while, as the gamemode Hardpoint is more or less this same exact idea, just with the points being randomly rotated around instead of all of them active at the same time. i'd love to see an approach to this gamemode in TF2, because COD honestly has some really fun gamemodes that i think would work well in TF2, given experimentation of course.
a think a great way to do the multiple KOTH points map design is to add one on both sides as a middle point between the main point and spawn, where the side points are locked off until the centre has been captured, and only opens up on the side of the team that isnt in control- this means the team in control needs to push forward more to the second point whilst holding down the centre, and cant just have one person sitting on their sides point whilst the rest of the team pushes up- moving the cap holders to the centre instead
I think the 3 control points working as one together is pretty nice, so i guess ill make a description of how id like to see it function Each team has control of 1 "subpoint" near the central point which gives team a slight increase in cap rate, if the central point isnt capped by anyone or the team has no pointsit remains as the normal cap rate, if they hold their own subpoint, they will have a slight 25% boost in cap rate, if they sneak behind the enemy and capture their subpoint they get a 50% boost in cap rate, if they have all points they get an extra 30 seconds on the timer. ( I am not really sure about this so tell me in the comments how you think this could be improved.)
The two control point concept is kinda like an inverted CTF map. Instead of trying to defend and follow the intel, you are trying to retain your position.
Because the most effective way to win would be to stand on your side’s objective. Going out of your way to the other team’s cap point would put you at a disadvantage as you would be fighting most of their team by yourself. A group of people leaving the cap point to fight the enemy would mean losing before even fighting the enemy. It rewards turtling on the point, which is not fun for either side of the fight.
You know, that two koth control point idea is really awesome. Having to switch between attacking people capping/blocking capture of your point and defending to block capture alltogether is a surprisingly complex and interesting map gimmick. That could be really neat if put on an actually well designed map
The multiple simultaneous capture points reminds me of a map I saw in a dream once. I won’t go into detail, but the main capture points had smaller points above them, when if capped, it made the below points faster to cap
Dick train, 2fort bridges, cow of doom, Necrosmasher on the point, Hightower, banana peel, screaming, saw blades, vent maze, launchpads, 2fort sewers, Dustbowl last and inflation. Typical TF2 community stuff.
Idea for the Dustbowls: It would be cool that capturing the Dustbowls made you KOTH time faster. If you have one in your side the timer goes down by one second as normal, if they are both yours the timer goes down two seconds (or more) and if you have no control point in your side the KOTH point will take one full minute to count as a second. I think it would be unique and fun, making the middle important without leaving the Dustbowls obsolete.
All it needs is to be condensed a little, like making the ramps function, Minecraft parkour is not so high up, the cow aura affecting more of the middle, etc, then I think it would be 10/10 and great for both serious and silly gameplay.
imagine a 2 point koth map where both teams are blocked by an invisible wall, and the only way to win is by lobbing grenades and rockets and getting high ground
I think this new "3koth" gamemode might have some good gameplay if you fine tuned it. Maybe it could be like a points system instead of timed, with each point giving more score to the team that capped it, and the middle neutral one would give more. It would be like Payload race for koth, the first team to get 100 points wins.
Imagine a map created like this where, instead of everyone voting on various overall gameplay features, they literally just each individually place entities, brushes, and everything else. Doubt a working map would come out of that ever, unless we don't care about leaks, but it'd be interesting to see what a map created entirely with text commands would look like.
i remember tuning into the livestream one time seeing the hightowers the point underneath and hearing that there will be a water slide and i knew this would be great so i guess im just going to join the server now to play it edit: nvm the servers full
One dustbowl = best map in the game Two dustbowls = 10/10 masterpiece Our only conclusion is that it is not actually the number of players who make a map that determines its quality, but the number of dustbowls.
This king of the "hills" gamemode could work (it's been done in other games) but there's a couple issues that must be addressed first: 1. How to avoid stalemates/staring contests where both teams just stand on their point and avoid contact? 2. What would the ideal size be? 2 CPs away from each others? 2 relatively close but you can't shoot one from the other? 3 with 2 closer to each team? or 3 CPs relatively far away from one another and both team spawns? (the last 2 seems promising) 3. how do we make it different enough from 5CPs? I'm thinking having 3 control points is necessary, but instead of having all areas work as a singular point you can defend from anywhere, an arm race to capture could be more fun/engaging, I'd like to apologize to all map makers out there, what I'm about to describe is not easily implemented in my experience: -CP on each side have a capture rate of 1, meaning each player (aside from Scout and Pain Train users) add 1 to the count -CP in the middle has a rate of 2, meaning each player standing on it count for 2 or 4 (Scout & PT) -everyone can capture at the same time, which team captures the point depends on who has the highest total Let's give some examples: -BLU has 6 players on their point, RED has 3 while the rest is going for the central point: CP acts as if there's only 3 BLU players on it -BLU has 4 players on their point while 2 went to defend middle but aren't there yet, RED has 2 on theirs and 3 on middle: CP acts as if there's 4 RED on it -A Spy sneaked in, BLU has 2 players on their point, 2 middle, RED has 2 on theirs and 1 middle: CP acts as if there's 2 BLU on it You get the idea, this can be done with math functions but that's already a pain to mess with, otherwise there's the logic problem, control points are not programmed to let a team capture it if someone from the other team is standing on it, let alone count them towards the capture with a positive or negative value depending on the majority If someone can pull this off, it would make for a really interesting gamemode tho
I don't know how you'd code it but if you could only cap "their" dustbowl could be a cool koth mechanic. Like you could retake yours but it it'd be lame if you just camp your own point on any real map.
Honestly, the control point being split into several areas is an interesting design idea. Could even explain it within tf2 lore as the control points having a huge cable connecting the two lol. An issue I find with the idea is though that, using koth rules, the team that caps first has an advantage, as the defenders only need to defend one of the two areas, while the attackers need to clear out both areas to be able to cap.. Either making the points easily cappable or making it possible to cap either point, regardless of if someone on the opposite team is standing on the point in the other area might be a solution.
Personal fav things: - Parkour for spell Yes, maybe minecraft parkour doesn't look the greatest, but other parkour could be nice. Especially indoors, so u can't use sticky/rocket jumper. - Connected points As you said, it's quite a nice balance, since one team can't really just sit in one spot, and have to constantly try and hold control over all points. - Vent/2fort sewers These seem to give a nice flank route, but they take a lot of time to clear
I really liked the idea of 2-point KOTH map. Give players 7 minutes timer, and make 2 control points far enough away from each other so the clashes between teams would be less oversaturated with players.
edit dec 28th 2023: changed the thumbnail :)
(server in description)
chat makes a (serious) 100 player tf2 map -> Dec 6th 12 PM EST // though this might change depending on when valve releases smissmas. i'll post updates in #important-alerts here -> discord.gg/E2zYGKAH3q
also please lmk if you have any feedback on the video. first real go at talking about a map like this in a video, hope it was coherent. any questions i should've answered or topics i should've explored?
Yippee
Sadly I could not be here for this experiment, but hopefully I can be there for the next one.
we gotta make a comp viable map
I'm really excited to see the serious version of this~
I'm going to be sad if the result isn't D-day normandy
"Walls to block sightlines" holy shit it's more balanced than upward
Real
This 1 mapping trick doctors DON'T want you to know‼️:
Add a vscript file that removes sniper. Now your map is instantly balanced.
@@trbz_8745funnily enough, you can't do that with vscript lol
@@trbz_8745The one tf2 trick sniper mains don't want you to know :
Don't move in a straight line
And if they still kill you, they're a bot obviously.
@@stefanandrejevic2570quickscopes be like
By itself, the idea of a koth map with two points that behave as one is quite interesting and I hope someone makes a real map like that.
that's a real map wdym
@@embrestedfalacy6552what map
Agreed, that's a very cool idea. This map is basically a brainstorm of a chat with some cool ideas, and I do want for someone to make map with 2 koth points. That will make them much more interesting and more classes will be viable in the fight, cuz usually it all ends up with powerclass just doing a lot of AOE damage and killing everyone.
WOMMY FOUND
KOTH DEMOCRACYIS THE REELEST MAP THERE Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little more about mapping than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor.
I love that the key areas of the map have distinct, recognizable callouts like "Snakewater" and "Vents." This map is gonna take the competitive scene by storm.
Flashbacks to a teammate in a Snakewater 6v6 match answering "On Snake" when I asked where the enemy sniper is.
The multi point koth seems like unironically good idea.
While not quite the same as how it works in this video, dom_cliffhanger is a map that I think is pretty neat. It's a koth map with 5 separate points, but your team's timer goes down faster if you control more points. So if you control all 5 points, your timer counts down 5 seconds at a time instead of one. I've never been able to play on the map against real people before, but I tried running bots on it and it was pretty fun to roam around trying to take all the points.
@@sfc0450that is pretty much just arena shooter "Domination" gamemode
It’s standing from the 2013 summer update or sulfur from the 2023 summer update
no
Agreed. It makes an interesting split between attack and defense.
you people don't understand, this is exactly what every community map was like back in the day
I distinctly remember playing on the incredibly schitzophrenic Minecraft trade maps that people made, truly goofy maps.
Yup. A perfect example is an absolutely ancient map from I would guess 2008 called "2f2f_directional_dinosaurs_a1". It is a bunch of sloppy, haphazard geometry with a koth point in the center surrounded by rotating brontosauruses. One of them has a rocket strapped to its back. If you search hard enough you can find it.
@@SnackPatrolI need this map,,,
it's got an obby and everything
@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Well, I know it's almost certainly someone who played on the legendary server 2fort2furious back in the day hence the prefix. The owner FLOOR_MASTER is behind the classic Team Roomba Griefing vids and also made cp_steel, and another regular there Mangycarface or some shit made pl_Frontier. I used to play there ages ago but most of them moved on.
Two control points that function as one is a neat idea tbh. Maybe a smaller and simpler map using that idea would be more fun?
koth_chokepoint (doesnt exsist yet)
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413koth_coughin
So it'd kinda be like 5 CP and CTF mixed together?
Well, you can just make KOTH_2_doublecross or something
It could work if it had multiple control points, and each point you owned subtracted more time from your clock
@@Geebanger0
Reminds me of the Arathi Basin battleground from World of Warcraft. Instead of a timer, you're trying to be first to 1500 score. There are five capture points, each point you own gives you 5 score per second. So the battle is very dynamic and requires a balance of defense and offense.
I bet a similar gamemode could work well in TF2. Maybe with three points instead of five, just to simplify things.
3:45 'What made the most sense was the dustbowls'
Hearing that just made me shudder
A powerful sentence indeed.
one shudders to imagine what thoughts lie behind the youtube chat
As we all know, everything always goes up exponentially in quality when there are more people.
There's no way that adding more cooks would spoil the broth, that's ridiculous
Especially in video games
@@brunop.8745or in this case, spoil the koth_
After all, 1000 people will obviously have the exact same idea
@@memelover6917 Of course, it is widely known that everyone will always agree with each other and get along…
The completely deadpan, "Next, they voted for minecraft parkour" had me in stitches.
Shounic's deadpan delivery makes every ridiculous idea funnier
Remember the laws of video game maps, the more inexperienced people are, the better the map
thanks John Romero
it is extremely agreeable. It is also more fun if you can let go and feel the freeness of the chaos.
as a tf2 mapper? yeah i can imagine this outcome lmao
though it's barely any worse than the usual "new-mapper-who-just-finished-the-tutorial-koth-a1" map
love the iconic maps by the household name pawlakov
@@awsomebot1 hey, i never claimed i'm good at it 🙃 (but just you wait for the next summer update)
@@Pawlakov1wutbeach for the next summer update? lol
@@elecman748 one can hope... (or cope)
Id love to see someone make a cleaned up version or the map, making it fit more aesthetically with tf2s map style, and maybe fixing up the walls and corridors and whatnot to not be pure floating planes
yes
the skybox has to be a giant hollow rectangular cuboid though
I can see this map being mining related, the central CP could be underground with the different bumping kart corridors being tunnels and on top of them the other 2 CPs
@@D0NU75
_HAAAANK!_
_HANK, DON'T ABBREVIATE "CONTROL POINT!"_
_HAAAANK!_
@@D0NU75 excellent, although what would the parkour bit be? climbing atop busted pylons to reach a hidden sorcerer's tomb?
You should get 1000 people to make a tf2 Gamemode and see what hell that brings
@@ywer3455when cp_(...) contains actual cp
@@ywer3455Sexton Hale!!
@@GewelRealNO!
@@ywer3455The Sex Update
@@GewelRealholy shit
If anyone's seen Trainsawlazer, i think it's a perfect exhibition of loads of silly elements in an actually functioning map
cp chad is also some artful 5cp work
TRAIN RAIN
There's a lot of gimmick maps like that. koth_foolsgrid, pl_cooler_badwater, koth_wubwubwub_remix. I used to run a community server and searched high and low for tasteful gimmick maps. Makes me sad I don't have enough time to start it again.
sounds made up
koth_nippletwister would like to say hi, it's also got a really unique twist in the form of a moving, floating control point
Honestly though I’d genuinely really love to see a legitimately serious map made for 100 player servers. Like, a gargantuan 8 point payload map or something.
And that's where you make 2 CP KotH maps! So you have 25v25×2 or a massive incursion on one side that lets the other point's defenders to hit 'em in a back
imagine trying to learn the sheer amount of competitive callout names 💀
A koth map with multiple points linked together is quite fascinating. I definitely agree that something interesting could be made with that concept.
honestly the forest/pond combo as the point is really nice looking, and the multiple points all being connected is honestly neat
As a map maker, this really hurts to watch. Also I'm not surprised in the slightest that Egan took a look at this and decided to fix it up lol. This is right up his alley
There's a gamemode from Unreal Tournament similar to this KOTH setup, called "Domination". There are multiple capture zones around the map, that generate team points as long as they are held. Team with most of those points at end of the round timer, wins. In first UT its usually 3 or 4 points, and in UT2004 its only 2 points. The gamemode is very chaotic with players separating into fragmented defenders to hold multiple zones, and one focused group of attackers. Gamemode also has no specified spawn point, players respawn where-ever their teammates are, in order to eliminate the bias of capture zones being too close to one team's spawn.
When comes to Team Fortress 2, one would need script this kind of respawn mechanic, because each of those "Dustbowls" are going to be so fortified with sentries, that the map will just turn into regular KOTH (although the hazardous difficulty on middle point does make players prefer dustbowl ones) or it will be a deathmatch stalemate unless one team just steamrolls. There's definitely potential for a fun new gamemode but I'd advise map makers to take notes from Unreal Tournament's Domination mode and experiment with 2-5 capture points, and especially, be wary of dem darn Engi's sentry nests throwing a wrench into map's balance.
Control Points is a vanilla gamemode in TF2
why does this have so few likes? its like the most constructive comment on this video
as a tf2 mapper, i want to see a part 2 to this and more
personally i suggest selecting a council of like 10 random people from chat to decide what decisions are voted on by the rest of chat, democracy by sortition and all that
Actually koth with 2 hills sounds really cool.
Shounic got so angry during this maps creation livestream, and looking at what was made, I don’t blame em
This is the beauty of emergent gameplay and giving players tools to create : yes, most of the results are utter rubbish, but you can get some genuinely interesting and creative ideas/concepts and some genuinely good interactions that you wouldn't really get anywhere else. The triple KOTH point creates what I can only term as "asymmetric balance", where the losing team is never 100% on the back foot and always has one or two other options to come back, breaking up the bunched-up winning team. The karts were clearly not originally designed for regular gameplay, but it somehow works here, on top of the scenarios you brought up.
There are, of course, some serious issues, namely, non-jump classes' mobility is shot and it's aesthetically a complete mess, but reined in a little, you could probably make an actual map out of it. Let's see how the more serious attempt goes.
solution: grappling hooks
It takes an impressive amount of control for Shounic to sound as stoic as he was while going over every detail that chat said should be added to the map's design
Never let Shounic touch hammer ever again
You mean the comments
@@jabz1582you mean discord
If by "not good" you mean "a flawless masterpiece" then yes
shounic truly is a pioneer
This still ended up with less gimmicks than the average Scream Fortress map!
I like the idea of a cap point that can kill you if you stay on it too long.
the anti camp cap point
Anti ca(m)p
Despite everything i'm sure that if you gave it enough love and actual sense it wouldn't be so bad..
Multiple control points serving as one is in all honestly an incredible idea. I'd like to see it implemented in a not-a-meme-map so we can learn more how it works. Besides being a way to keep KOTH dynamic, it sounds like a good idea to spread the fighting out some more, as said about the Dustbowl last cap points.
This map probably leads to the most miserable tf2 experience out there, however it does contain a train so this means its an objectively good map
you should try to make a salvageable enjoyable map out of this, with all the wacky ideas kept but balanced and with actual yknow, walls and proper map design lmao
I love that it has the design choice that every group designed thing bas where the final design decisions ruins literally everything that came before it.
Shounic has really created a great community for us extra nerdy TF2 players.
This reminds me alot of that one cp orange map that had the spawn points as big towers being able to go through the bottom or through the top while also having a weird underground maze
The only thing that wasnt similar was the big pit, there being sniper sightlines along the walls and it being a 5 cp map
I don't know why you seem to dislike this map, it just seems like God tier map design honestly
Honestly, the idea of 3 cap points, all working towards a unified capture is a really interesting idea I think.
If you introduced some method(s) of keeping people moving and circling to other points, or at least encouraging that, it would make for such an interesting dynamic; maybe there are hammers over the two points closest to each team's spawn, that strike down, killing whoever is standing there or some other similar thing.
Then again, even just having points close to each team's spawn would likely be enough to encourage moving between them.
Honestly, playable go-karts mixed with regular players like this would be cool for a Scream Fortress map
i'd like to mention the idea of one koth point being represented by multiple other points actually has existed in COD for a while, as the gamemode Hardpoint is more or less this same exact idea, just with the points being randomly rotated around instead of all of them active at the same time.
i'd love to see an approach to this gamemode in TF2, because COD honestly has some really fun gamemodes that i think would work well in TF2, given experimentation of course.
honestly, a "tower defense" type koth map where there's 2 different control points that function the same is an insanely cool concept in my opinion
a think a great way to do the multiple KOTH points map design is to add one on both sides as a middle point between the main point and spawn, where the side points are locked off until the centre has been captured, and only opens up on the side of the team that isnt in control- this means the team in control needs to push forward more to the second point whilst holding down the centre, and cant just have one person sitting on their sides point whilst the rest of the team pushes up- moving the cap holders to the centre instead
I think the 3 control points working as one together is pretty nice, so i guess ill make a description of how id like to see it function
Each team has control of 1 "subpoint" near the central point which gives team a slight increase in cap rate, if the central point isnt capped by anyone or the team has no pointsit remains as the normal cap rate, if they hold their own subpoint, they will have a slight 25% boost in cap rate, if they sneak behind the enemy and capture their subpoint they get a 50% boost in cap rate, if they have all points they get an extra 30 seconds on the timer. ( I am not really sure about this so tell me in the comments how you think this could be improved.)
Since jump pads exist, I guess people could try making their own TF2 version of the maps The Longest Yard and Apocalypse Void from Quake 3 Arena.
"And of course to entirely invalidate everything we done so far... 2 dustbowls" Hahaha 😂
The two control point concept is kinda like an inverted CTF map. Instead of trying to defend and follow the intel, you are trying to retain your position.
Democracy in theory: The people get to make the inportant decisions
Democracy in reality:
3:15 I kinda like that, actually. Three points that you have to keep hold of all of them... would be fun for the 100 player server. C:
Combining the points might be a work of brilliance.
I think there could be a really interesting KOTH (tug-o-war) design in there.
"...immediately ruined with a rapidly-spinning cow that kills you..."
You mean improved.
Multiple koth capture points leading to one unique objective is actually a clever idea. I'm surprised no known map developer thought of this.
Because the most effective way to win would be to stand on your side’s objective. Going out of your way to the other team’s cap point would put you at a disadvantage as you would be fighting most of their team by yourself. A group of people leaving the cap point to fight the enemy would mean losing before even fighting the enemy. It rewards turtling on the point, which is not fun for either side of the fight.
Now this map need to be "x1000, VSH, classwars, 100 players, RTD" And this all in one
"According to chat, the screaming is an important gameplay mechanic"
You know, that two koth control point idea is really awesome. Having to switch between attacking people capping/blocking capture of your point and defending to block capture alltogether is a surprisingly complex and interesting map gimmick. That could be really neat if put on an actually well designed map
The multiple simultaneous capture points reminds me of a map I saw in a dream once.
I won’t go into detail, but the main capture points had smaller points above them, when if capped, it made the below points faster to cap
i wasn't sold on this map until you revealed the two dustbowls
truly, this is peak tf2 map design
having multiple points act as one point is actually a really cool idea
I feel like cows giving you mad milk effect should be more common in tf2
this map format would be really good in 100 player death matches. having multiple concentrated battles at once for control points is a cool concept
A horrible but beautiful masterpiece that they created honestly
Dick train, 2fort bridges, cow of doom, Necrosmasher on the point, Hightower, banana peel, screaming, saw blades, vent maze, launchpads, 2fort sewers,
Dustbowl last and inflation.
Typical TF2 community stuff.
people shooting from snakewater to dustbowl on this map is like rick and morty shooting at ppl through portals into different dimensions
i'd like to see a real map with a split koth point now
i really like these experiment videos you do with your community. it's fun seeing the results. next make them vote on a new gamemode
I love this, should totally do more.
The introduction of the map was especially silly
Idea for the Dustbowls:
It would be cool that capturing the Dustbowls made you KOTH time faster. If you have one in your side the timer goes down by one second as normal, if they are both yours the timer goes down two seconds (or more) and if you have no control point in your side the KOTH point will take one full minute to count as a second.
I think it would be unique and fun, making the middle important without leaving the Dustbowls obsolete.
“Oh, Also they held a strange tube to my head and demanded it be on the 100 player server”💀
All it needs is to be condensed a little, like making the ramps function, Minecraft parkour is not so high up, the cow aura affecting more of the middle, etc, then I think it would be 10/10 and great for both serious and silly gameplay.
imagine a 2 point koth map where both teams are blocked by an invisible wall, and the only way to win is by lobbing grenades and rockets and getting high ground
I'm thankful that the map got the lighting bake it deserves
This feels less like a TF2 map and more like an LSD trip.
VIDEO PUBLISHED 12 SECONDS AGO LETS GOO
I think this new "3koth" gamemode might have some good gameplay if you fine tuned it. Maybe it could be like a points system instead of timed, with each point giving more score to the team that capped it, and the middle neutral one would give more. It would be like Payload race for koth, the first team to get 100 points wins.
Imagine a map created like this where, instead of everyone voting on various overall gameplay features, they literally just each individually place entities, brushes, and everything else.
Doubt a working map would come out of that ever, unless we don't care about leaks, but it'd be interesting to see what a map created entirely with text commands would look like.
i remember tuning into the livestream one time seeing the hightowers the point underneath and hearing that there will be a water slide and i knew this would be great so i guess im just going to join the server now to play it edit: nvm the servers full
I contributed, so I'm going to need some of the profits when the map is added to the casual pool.
One dustbowl = best map in the game
Two dustbowls = 10/10 masterpiece
Our only conclusion is that it is not actually the number of players who make a map that determines its quality, but the number of dustbowls.
This king of the "hills" gamemode could work (it's been done in other games) but there's a couple issues that must be addressed first:
1. How to avoid stalemates/staring contests where both teams just stand on their point and avoid contact?
2. What would the ideal size be? 2 CPs away from each others? 2 relatively close but you can't shoot one from the other? 3 with 2 closer to each team? or 3 CPs relatively far away from one another and both team spawns? (the last 2 seems promising)
3. how do we make it different enough from 5CPs?
I'm thinking having 3 control points is necessary, but instead of having all areas work as a singular point you can defend from anywhere, an arm race to capture could be more fun/engaging, I'd like to apologize to all map makers out there, what I'm about to describe is not easily implemented in my experience:
-CP on each side have a capture rate of 1, meaning each player (aside from Scout and Pain Train users) add 1 to the count
-CP in the middle has a rate of 2, meaning each player standing on it count for 2 or 4 (Scout & PT)
-everyone can capture at the same time, which team captures the point depends on who has the highest total
Let's give some examples:
-BLU has 6 players on their point, RED has 3 while the rest is going for the central point: CP acts as if there's only 3 BLU players on it
-BLU has 4 players on their point while 2 went to defend middle but aren't there yet, RED has 2 on theirs and 3 on middle: CP acts as if there's 4 RED on it
-A Spy sneaked in, BLU has 2 players on their point, 2 middle, RED has 2 on theirs and 1 middle: CP acts as if there's 2 BLU on it
You get the idea, this can be done with math functions but that's already a pain to mess with, otherwise there's the logic problem, control points are not programmed to let a team capture it if someone from the other team is standing on it, let alone count them towards the capture with a positive or negative value depending on the majority
If someone can pull this off, it would make for a really interesting gamemode tho
Glad to be a part of this wonderful map
I don't know how you'd code it but if you could only cap "their" dustbowl could be a cool koth mechanic. Like you could retake yours but it it'd be lame if you just camp your own point on any real map.
that's just attack/defend?
@@Hexarth nah, the gimmick how it's tied the center point. It's koth with extra steps.
"Both Dustbowls and Snakewater points function as one point"
So, with a far stretch, it is Planetside 2.
so clearly this means that there is an idle number of map creators somewhere between one and 100. now you just have to find it.
One thing I learned here:
KOTH with two (connected) capture points might be a VIABLE map idea.
Honestly, the control point being split into several areas is an interesting design idea. Could even explain it within tf2 lore as the control points having a huge cable connecting the two lol. An issue I find with the idea is though that, using koth rules, the team that caps first has an advantage, as the defenders only need to defend one of the two areas, while the attackers need to clear out both areas to be able to cap.. Either making the points easily cappable or making it possible to cap either point, regardless of if someone on the opposite team is standing on the point in the other area might be a solution.
I dont think anyone was taking the map making seriously, and I love it.
Personal fav things:
- Parkour for spell
Yes, maybe minecraft parkour doesn't look the greatest, but other parkour could be nice. Especially indoors, so u can't use sticky/rocket jumper.
- Connected points
As you said, it's quite a nice balance, since one team can't really just sit in one spot, and have to constantly try and hold control over all points.
- Vent/2fort sewers
These seem to give a nice flank route, but they take a lot of time to clear
I was expecting a thousand people actually all working together in collaboration on a map, but this is way more sane. XD
Ok, I did not expected that they will actually come up with some funny and interesting ideas
6:48 It doesn't even matter.
starting to feel less like TF2 experiments and more experiments demonstrating flawed democracy.
I want a serious attempt at reviving the Robot Destruction game-mode.
I really liked the idea of 2-point KOTH map. Give players 7 minutes timer, and make 2 control points far enough away from each other so the clashes between teams would be less oversaturated with players.
7 minutes is way too long, even 3 minutes from normal KOTH would be absurd
@@The-jy3yq you need time to hold both points at once to recapture the objective, so attacking team might need some more time.
"Democracy simply does not work" - Kent Brockman
Oh yes please keep us updated on the map making!
Yo, honestly? A map with two or three separate points that count as one point sounds like a neat idea.
“Having multiple points could work and is fun to play”
Shounic… you just created a territorial control map lolololol
Well not really as TC is too short for that
1:45 which classes jump for the beef
The double koth idea is at least an interesting gameplay mechanic