The fact that the world record for Factorio is 50 minutes FASTER than the amount of time it took Dosh to make the rocket with ALL of the research already unlocked really shows just how insane the record is
Yeah, to be fair that record is with maximum resources and the default record is around 2 hours, but still. The speedrunners are human blueprints and human construction bots all in one
@@DoshDoshington i used to speedrun the game in the old days and on a whim decided to check the new techniques...... my god those guys are good... it's insane. btw, you are quite well known in the community and so if you wanted to do something fun, you could setup a tournament of factorio pvp? single bracket or something like that, i think it could be a good video idea and i know a lot of the top players would jump on the opportunity
@@ENDERLICOT Not just top players. I'm fairly new to Factorio but that makes me feel like a kid in a candy store. You could make fun lower tier little competitions, a sort of Factorio olympics, give out a prize for best spaghetti and such. Makes learning and being a newbie and all that a lot more of a positive experience than the redditors Screaming and Crying the second you make something not in their mental blueprint book that isn't maximum efficient. I don't play the game to re-invent the wheel I play the game to giggle at what I can get away with! Creative thinking and problem solving has many flavors and I would jump at the chance at joining fun little competitions that aren't so much about PVP or speedrunning and more about spaghetti, train shenanigans, sushi belts, etc. Factorio feels like the perfect playground to build some stupid stuff, case in point? that train bumper car arena Dosh made. I'm no youtuber, don't have the gear, but Dosh (or anyone really) if you're reading this I for one would be willing to help set something like this up.
That was an actual thing in vanilla? I’ve been gaslit into thinking that it was a mod that the UA-camr just had active when he played, it was the guy who introduced me to Factorio and I think it might’ve happened around the time it was removed Between him always having it and dosh never mentioning it I always thought it was a mod I think it’s an alien science mod now or something? I distinctly remember watching the guy set up farms and killboxes around the biggest alien base clusters (3-4) with belts to funnel all the different colours but sometimes there weren’t different colours
No actually. They changed the supply challenge map after the science changes in 0.16. But that was after the alien artifacts were removed in 0.15. (as some proof, there's still some video's of the old supply challenge map on my profile with a (then) world record time)
The non-deterministic one is because the game is still ticking while you build and mining happens every x ticks. So depending on which tick between mining ticks you start, you get a tiny bit more or less time. It's like how your commute varies depending on at which time in its cycle you hit the first traffic light.
Even games like Trackmania that are deterministic get weird. If you delay starting to drive your car by a few frames you get completely different results even if the rest of the input is identical.
@@goffe2282 Hello, I'm TM player and I'm quite interested in the bugs in this game. Could you please elaborate on your comment a bit? (I don't understand exactly what you mean)
These feel like test modes the devs used to figure out game mechanics before freeplay mode was fun enough to stand on its own. It's so hard to imagine developing factorio in a world where the closest prior art is modded minecraft.
The development of basically all open world games worked like that, the little janky minigames & modes they come with are usually the beta testing mode. For example, the painted world level in Dark Souls 1 that is disconnected from the game's critical path entirely and lacks the "hooking into other parts of the gameworld" thing that the rest of DS1 does (even if its just other levels being visible)? That was the game's demo, and a bunch of its enemies were from Demon's Souls. And also, interestingly, the devs apparently disliked something about the process of making DS1 so much that they didn't do the main game's world design again and just make their sequels work the way the demo for DS1 did
@@tabula_rosatechnically the reason for not repeating DS1's world design in DS2 was just because Miyazaki didn't want to make a sequel, so Bandai pressured From to put their b-team on the game, with a reduced budget and development deadline. This completely backfired as the game went over budget and wasn't going to make the deadline, so after switching directors and some staff, the game was rushed and made very linear to get it out in a reasonable time. And DS3 mostly focused on making contained areas to avoid worldcreep, though it is actually fairly similar to DS1 in terms of design, just with more self contained loops rather than a massive central loop with small branches. Most likely if they'd had more time and budget, the game would have been more interconnected.
@@theapexsurvivor9538 elden ring had more time and budget (tho it still came out unfinished lol) and it also didn't do the interconnected world thing. it is open world bc it has an overworld sure, but the legacy dungeons AND the non-legacy dungeons are not interconnected -- you enter them 1 way, you beat them and either exit them to the next part of the game for critical path dungeons or get teleported back to the entrance. you never like, discover thru exploration a way to get into Stormveil backwards or w/e. they're never gonna do DS1 again bc its troubled developement burned them on that method of world design. there's a couple interviews where it comes up but the reason Lost Izalith has that area full of disembodied dragon legs standing in lava that you never aggro because a roller coaster tree root takes you thru the exact path you need to go to never need to fight them? the guy they had assigned to that level turned out to have not delivered anything (fun fact the far cavern walls of that area are covered with hundreds of de-activated enemies, and Ceaseless Discharge has over 100 un-used attacks in his code) and they couldn't just cut the level because doing so would break world connections they had designed for other stuff, so all they could do about it was yank developers from other levels to hurredly slap something in (which is why the only enemies for that area are statues with almost no animation, stationary worms with an otherwise-unused weapon breaking mechanic, and bosses copy-pasted) which caused *their* levels to go unfinished
I recently beat belt madness on a whim during a train ride. I remember having been really stumped by it years ago when it was first released, but now, my own spaghetti is far superior to that of belt madness' expectations.
Well, I mean with how the space platform gameplay is shaping up, I'm sure this is but a small taste of how much spaghetti they're going to encourage...
@@kajmaklover For sure. Elevated rails also gets into this position giving us ability to put them over most buildings. Something that allow us to transport in bulk into middle of a base even with a tool of easy construction. So rails that till today needed biggest infrastructure impact in average gameplay will have much smaller. Buffing belts to keep in high demand routes. And giving logistic bots almost nothing except saying stay there if you are lazy and a bit better brain but this was more needed for construction bots. Oh and game trailer and all main menu simulations are made in spaghetti bases. So yes they were doing it always but community went and teach new player of easier approaches of city blocks controlled by trains and main buss belting.
Honestly I think there's a lot of potential for PvP shenanigans. A dedicated group and a good rule set could make for fun scenarios like storming a fortress or any number of things.
Slow the game down. Make research take an hour, play it as an open server. Contribute to your team's research over the period of a few weeks as bases rise and fall. Maybe space age with multiple surfaces would be better
Could very easily do a MGS5 style asynchronous multiplayer where other players bases are dungeons for other players to spelunk, & you get rewarded for spelunking other players bases with materials & tech to develope your base. Slap on a vague ranking system & seasonal wipes and you've got a whole second game
Fun fact: i'm the reason why flamethrowers are such a good weapon. They didn't want to buff the higher tier weapons but I convinced the developers that anything was better than laser turret spam and they eventually agreed with my take. They made laser turrets a 2x2 and not only buffed some of the more advanced weapons (such as the flamethrower) but also made turrets for them. Now the meta of spamming lazer turrets is no longer the only way to play once you get past the early game. Fun fact that's also why the ability to limit chests was put into the game. The devs didn't want to but really didn't like people filling slots with single-stacked rocks. Never told them how busted using the stun module (the one controlled by a remote) on your suit while driving a tank and dealing contact damage was, so enjoy playing around with that one. Everyone discounts that tool because it deals little damage but what nobody realizes is that not only can you stunlock the enemies with it, but it also deals splash damage so it actually outdamages the lazer module with enough enemies around you. In other words, run into the heart of an enemy nest and just absolutely obliterate them with your stunlock. You can use the tank's contact damage (which is normally rendered useless by enemies swarming you) to take two niche combat tools and completely cover the other's weakness by pairing them together.
"And compared to the 'Team Production' there was a surprisingly short list of people interested in taking me on." So you're saying that your patrons were hesitant to take on the man who fought and clawed his way out of the biter infested frozen wastes and the ever dark volcanic hellscape? Gee, I can't imagine why.
Black/Smoothie was such a good sport about it XD It was fun to watch, even if it was also a little hard near the end; the words "seal clubbing" came up in the VC. (Yes, I *am* the one in Team Production who didn't even post on the board until the very last round. Yes, that is about how I expected it to go.)
A couple of years ago the yogs streamed the PVP mode with a bunch of viewers. 60 players overall. I didn't catch the whole stream but it definitely seemed like the mode is more suited for the amount of free time a team has with mass multiplayer than you'd get from a 1v1.
I remember he said “you know youre cooking spaghetti when you have to use this method” in regards to splitting a belt in half with a underground sideways… bruh I use that technique like I breathe air
About PvP mode. I've played it before - with random people in an online game and... One day I will be able to win a game one against three (Not on the first try, of course). I'm surprised that the guy you played against, instead of waiting for you to build a tank, didn't decide to collect several dozen grenades, heavy T2 armor (it partially allows you to ignore damage from yellow cartridges), one and a half to two hundred red ammo, a dozen turrets and simply didn’t come to kill you (as I would have done). Grenades are needed here to blow up a wall and a couple of turrets, since their throw and explosion radius is further than the firing radius of the turrets. Then we stomp in heavy T2 armor straight to the missile silo, place those same turrets around it and load them with red ammunition. Along the way, we use the remains of grenades to destroy production and kill your character. Afterwards the turret destroys the missile silo and... Easy victory! *devilface*. This method will take at most 20 minutes. Maybe 30. But not almost two hours). And the video is great, yes:3
My guess is he didn't really grab someone that good at the game for his pvp match and well, told them not to just come over and kill him faster then he could ever get a tank up
@@GoremizeNah it's just most people dont play pvp so they don't bother knowing the fact that the turrets defenses can be broken by grenades and how effective player armor is against player defenses.
@@bountygiver2 I mean, I've hardly played factorio (launched exactly 1 rocket, and no PVP), and even I was wondering if massed turrets and grenades wouldn't be faster than a tank.
@@gobs379 Yes, yes it is. While he's building a tank you've gotten armour nades and turrets and come over and killed him before he's got any means to defend himself or take you out. If you are able to get a tank out in a pvp match, you are only fighting against people who don't know how to play the game. But yeah, I can understand that since most don't play pvp they may not know.
Completely unrelated: Reading your text in dark mode and then looking at another screen with a white background had me not being able to read anything there.
Funny thing about the rocket defense scenario: It's older than flamethrower turrets and uranium, so you were intended to fend the biters off with just red ammo and laser turrets
Splee speedruns Wave defense and rushes a car early and then kills off bases near by, it prevents evolution IIRC and he can generally launch rocket before the walls fail with no extra defense.
@darthodin9736 You are correct; I do not expect yours to be better. Merely different. And that's interesting. Especially since I came to the same furnace stack conclusion before I ever looked online at how others did it. It feels like an obvious design.
I make it two tiles thinner by having all the belts on the inside, and using red inserters to output to a belt in the middle. Uses a lot more underground belts (since you have to place power poles in the middle) and red inserters, but I think it's pretty neat.
To be fair, if he accidently got someone good at pvp Dosh wouldn't have lived long enough to see even one blue science pack be made xD You can win this with a few grenades and turrets, just go for armour, grenades and red ammo and gg you win an hour earlier then tanks.
Excellent demonstration of the Train Road. Just fill the entire playable area with that blueprint and leave space for miners/assemblers. You can travel around your whole base in just a train
my guess is the time speed up effects some stuff. i know a lot of older or poorly made games tend to have weird issues when the time gets changed. small rounding errors that wouldnt matter get wonky
@@ZaliedIt's actually because mining is scheduled to tick every X ticks, and you can get a tiny bit more if it starts a few fractions of a second earlier. Factorio doesn't have any issues with time acceleration/slowdown as far as I know.
@@nikkiofthevalley that would mean that him pressing play to start the match is off by a tick at some point to cause a difference in each run or some form of similar issue where the time between starting and the first tick of mining are not the same
@@Zalied the game is running, and thus ticking, while building/before pressing start so it just means they didn't take the exact same amount of time to click start every single time.
I played A LOT of pvp games with Friends, not for the pvp aspect but to be able to have separate techtree and base with not that much tweaking And you can change ally with command to avoid beiing killed by turrets
Jumping into the team production game absolutely caked in rust was certainly a decision I've made in my life!! It was great fun, glad to be a part of somethin' o7
I think I tried wave defense once or twice back when it got added to the game, got murdered hard, and then just went back to my sandbox games. Thanks for the trip down memory lane!
Checking the history of the factorio wiki page of blue science, it explains the ease TL;DR: they used to cost batteries + plastic bars + filter inserters + red circuits on release. History 0.17.60: (30/07/2019) Chemical science pack requires Sulfur instead of Solid fuel. 0.17.0: (26/02/19) Changed name from "Science pack 3" to "Chemical science pack". Recipe changed to 3 Advanced circuits + 2 Engine units + 1 Solid fuel → 2 Chemical science pack. (Previously 1 Advanced circuit + 1 Engine unit + 1 Electric mining drill → 1 Science pack 3). 0.15.7: (05/05/17) Changed Science pack 3 to require Electric mining drill instead of Assembling machine 1. 0.15.0: (24/04/17) Recipe changed to Assembling machine 1 + Advanced circuit + Engine unit → Science pack 3. (Previously Battery + Plastic bar + Filter inserter + Advanced circuit → Science pack 3.)
@@hitofuukiright! That's also an additional layer of complexity. Wow, I'm getting memories of my first run getting filtered by oil specifically because I couldn't fit batteries due to how scared I was of expanding lol.
Yeah, oil was (and still is) a huge jump in complexity - it even had its own "tutorial" map introducing it in the campaign. They made it a _lot_ simpler to progress through that phase. There were very few updates to the scenarios as the underlying game changed quite drastically. For something like Tight Spot, where it's about a precarious balance between costs and profits, that's pretty problematic. Even small things like e.g. the changes to burner mechanics make a difference - burning coal in a furnace used to be more efficient than using it to make electricity. It was pretty well balanced when it was introduced, but that drifted with time and updates :)
When i discovered Coins in level editor i was wondering where to use them but i forgot about them. Then i've found Tight spot and oh boy, my 1k+hrs in factorio just updated for next 100hrs or so for "optimization".
54:56 "This is probably why PVP is pretty much never played, because after two hours of play time your reward is getting your beautiful base obliterated by a tank." I'll take the whole RTS genre for 400 please.
Biter Battles are probably a better way to do PvP - it's a great game mode to watch and you have to chose between using research offensively (expend packs to send biters at your enemy) and defensively (research). No direct PvP, all done by throwing biters at your opponents. Tournaments used to be run for it. Great spectator sport too with shoutcasters.
Please keep making these narrative plays, Dosh. You are one of the best regular Factorio content creators on the site. Always love watching them. Nice to see these obscure game modes getting some love. Only asking up to Blue science? Didn't figure it would end until it asked for a rocket's worth of stuff. On that note, it's kind of sweet that they kept the old rocket as a kind of 'easter egg' in that one map. Now, as far as what we'd love to see next...read the first letter of every sentence.
DOSH! Just hearing your voice brings me too much joy. I am in for 55:58 quantities of time units of good well produced logical quantifiable good information.
Me and some of my friends enjoy the pvp mode with the diplomacy mod, not to fight each other necessarily, but to be able to play on the same server with separate bases and tech progression.
The best way to play is rail ribbon world: Rail world, high enemy/no respawn, no pollution, and with the Y coordinate on its lowest range setting. In order to expand you have to break into enemy nests and due to the difficulty scaling it gets harder as you go. It becomes less about beating the game as fast as possible (a regression which is extremely common in other game modes) and more about picking and choosing your battles. You can't just go guns blazing to expand endlessly either, which makes your space genuinely (but not annoyingly/artificially) limited. As soon as you feel like you're running out of space, you have to make the choice if it's worth risking your factory to expand further, or if you want to spend some time to improve what you've already got. Unlike the other modes that just hard-wall you from progression, it feels more like a pressure against expanding out when you don't need to.
I actually did Transport Belt Madness pretty early after buying the game. This however, had the unfortunate side effect of making me prone to making spaghetti bases with no buses.
It's interesting to see some of these modes' designs popping up in Space Age. For instance, Tight Spot is definitely present in the belt logistics challenge that is the Space Platforms. Additionally, Supply Challenge, where all tech is unlocked, is a bit related to the fact you start from scratch on new planets but with the most essential bits of the tech tree already researched.
When you get bored of the game like me, you find a way, and eventually realize that there's more to it than meets the eye. I love these puzzles and scenarios and some of them would make for amazing teamplay!
As for Tight Spot, just add metrics for speed of production, space taken, cost to compare to other players and BOOM, you've got yourself a Zachtronics game
I wonder if this makes the solar panel level more difficult, hmm 0.11.0: Significantly slowed crafting speed (of solar panels) to 10 secs from 0.5 sec.
I've only tried transport belt madness but I actually enjoyed it. I tried it when I was fairly new to factorio and that was how I first learned how belt weaving works, so it legit made me a better factorio player
Fun fact about wave defense: If you went out of your way to kill all the biter bases, the biters would still be spawning a bit away from your base anyway every night until you launch the rocket.
I'm just gonna put this out there - Try sandbox mode *WITHOUT* any of the cheat modes it offers. It's an interesting twist IMHO. You're essentially playing the game without an engineer character. This is liberating in that you can zip your camera all around the map PDQ and just do whatever you want. It's also constraining in that you don't have some of the usual tools. There's no way to use a machinegun on those early biters until you can make a car. There's also no personal roboport. Not until you have spiders with roboports anyways.
I haven't played the other ones but transport belt madness is really fun. It took me quite a while to figure out some of it and honestly improved my logistical capabilities (didn't know about belt weaving before that)
The pvp mode is a really interesting idea. But you probably need something like 4v4 or similar. Such that you could have the potential for actual combat between bases.
I've never played Factorio, but I really enjoy your content! Thank you for all the effort you put into compiling and sharing these videos. (And thank you too Patreon supporters for supporting Dosh to do what he loves) Maybe you should host one of those team battles for your Patreon supporters, and the winning team gets to try the pvp mode against you.
I played PVP back in the day with early biter-battle servers. I would sneak around and mess up their fluid systems by dropping in water/oil/anything. It was a fun challenge, fighting off all the sneak attacks. The reason I went after their fluids was because I was exceptionally fast at repairing my own, I could fix mismatched fluid lines in seconds, I guess that's the benefit of playing a pacifist role for so long. Too bad it's all become too political now, the servers now require discord vetting and "team captains" kick anyone they don't like for any reason, including aesthetics...in PVP.
i beat transport belt madness when i first started playing the game! before i even played freeplay i went and did transport belt madness the whole way through, really fun!
Honestly, Supply Challenge was how I learned to play the game. My mom, sister and uncle invited me in to their already-started game, I was overwhelmed, and almost didn't pick the game back up, until my mom and sis convinced me to play supply rush to try the game again. I now have almost 600 hours and we're playing a massively modded space exploration game.
hop on youtube for background noise while i make breakfast only to see a new video came out 38 minutes ago, talk about timing speaking of, i really love these videos for background noise, the super long duration means i dont have to finagle with a playlist or something or keep looking for something new mid task and you dont too often see roughly hour long videos anymore, and even less of them that are actually entertaining
In tight spot, if you remove more walls than you have money for, the game borrows an extra 5,000 coins. You can do this infinitely to borrow as many coins as you need. You still have to pay them off, but it's much much easier to beat LVL3 with 2 solar panel assemblers.
About pvp and wave survival, there's an entire community dedicated to organizing competitive wave survival with a pvp twist. :) I don't recall the name but it's pretty fun to watch.
I think the pvp mode has the most potential for someone like you. I'd love to see a 1v(however many). It's like fighting biters but they have the ability to make factories too.
The speed at which you automate even the simplest of materials terrifies me I got all the way to production science packs without even automating the production of gears and copper wires outside of science pack production.
The fact that the world record for Factorio is 50 minutes FASTER than the amount of time it took Dosh to make the rocket with ALL of the research already unlocked really shows just how insane the record is
FYI the record is currently 1h 18m 56s
Yeah, to be fair that record is with maximum resources and the default record is around 2 hours, but still. The speedrunners are human blueprints and human construction bots all in one
@@DoshDoshington i used to speedrun the game in the old days and on a whim decided to check the new techniques...... my god those guys are good... it's insane. btw, you are quite well known in the community and so if you wanted to do something fun, you could setup a tournament of factorio pvp? single bracket or something like that, i think it could be a good video idea and i know a lot of the top players would jump on the opportunity
I wonder how long the space age speed runs will be
@@ENDERLICOT Not just top players. I'm fairly new to Factorio but that makes me feel like a kid in a candy store. You could make fun lower tier little competitions, a sort of Factorio olympics, give out a prize for best spaghetti and such. Makes learning and being a newbie and all that a lot more of a positive experience than the redditors Screaming and Crying the second you make something not in their mental blueprint book that isn't maximum efficient. I don't play the game to re-invent the wheel I play the game to giggle at what I can get away with! Creative thinking and problem solving has many flavors and I would jump at the chance at joining fun little competitions that aren't so much about PVP or speedrunning and more about spaghetti, train shenanigans, sushi belts, etc. Factorio feels like the perfect playground to build some stupid stuff, case in point? that train bumper car arena Dosh made.
I'm no youtuber, don't have the gear, but Dosh (or anyone really) if you're reading this I for one would be willing to help set something like this up.
29:00 biters are probably part of the map to supply the alien artifacts to research military science. Yes, that mode is probably that old....
Lmao, you're right
@@DoshDoshington now i feel old. the last time i actually played factorio myself, that still existed.
That was an actual thing in vanilla? I’ve been gaslit into thinking that it was a mod that the UA-camr just had active when he played, it was the guy who introduced me to Factorio and I think it might’ve happened around the time it was removed
Between him always having it and dosh never mentioning it I always thought it was a mod
I think it’s an alien science mod now or something?
I distinctly remember watching the guy set up farms and killboxes around the biggest alien base clusters (3-4) with belts to funnel all the different colours but sometimes there weren’t different colours
No actually. They changed the supply challenge map after the science changes in 0.16. But that was after the alien artifacts were removed in 0.15.
(as some proof, there's still some video's of the old supply challenge map on my profile with a (then) world record time)
I don’t think there was ever any overlap between alien artifacts and military science packs being in the game, unless you mean the alien science packs
I can't believe they haven't updated Transport Belt Madness, Factorio's most played game mode, in 7 years.
Belt madness is basically a tutorial mode
@@papakamirneron2514it’s the cursed tutorial mode, teaches the basics of spaghetti unlike the normal tutorial.
What i can't believe is they didn't add an alternate version of the underground belts that are 4x that only get used in that mode
The non-deterministic one is because the game is still ticking while you build and mining happens every x ticks. So depending on which tick between mining ticks you start, you get a tiny bit more or less time.
It's like how your commute varies depending on at which time in its cycle you hit the first traffic light.
Ah yes. The infinite SMB frame rule.
I can hear it now..."Imagine a bus"
@@yambone635 I'm so glad I wasn't the only one who started having that play in my head when I read this comment.
Even games like Trackmania that are deterministic get weird. If you delay starting to drive your car by a few frames you get completely different results even if the rest of the input is identical.
@@goffe2282 Hello, I'm TM player and I'm quite interested in the bugs in this game. Could you please elaborate on your comment a bit? (I don't understand exactly what you mean)
These feel like test modes the devs used to figure out game mechanics before freeplay mode was fun enough to stand on its own. It's so hard to imagine developing factorio in a world where the closest prior art is modded minecraft.
This some troof right here.
It's so cool to read through all of the FFFs man
The development of basically all open world games worked like that, the little janky minigames & modes they come with are usually the beta testing mode. For example, the painted world level in Dark Souls 1 that is disconnected from the game's critical path entirely and lacks the "hooking into other parts of the gameworld" thing that the rest of DS1 does (even if its just other levels being visible)? That was the game's demo, and a bunch of its enemies were from Demon's Souls. And also, interestingly, the devs apparently disliked something about the process of making DS1 so much that they didn't do the main game's world design again and just make their sequels work the way the demo for DS1 did
@@tabula_rosatechnically the reason for not repeating DS1's world design in DS2 was just because Miyazaki didn't want to make a sequel, so Bandai pressured From to put their b-team on the game, with a reduced budget and development deadline. This completely backfired as the game went over budget and wasn't going to make the deadline, so after switching directors and some staff, the game was rushed and made very linear to get it out in a reasonable time.
And DS3 mostly focused on making contained areas to avoid worldcreep, though it is actually fairly similar to DS1 in terms of design, just with more self contained loops rather than a massive central loop with small branches. Most likely if they'd had more time and budget, the game would have been more interconnected.
@@theapexsurvivor9538 elden ring had more time and budget (tho it still came out unfinished lol) and it also didn't do the interconnected world thing. it is open world bc it has an overworld sure, but the legacy dungeons AND the non-legacy dungeons are not interconnected -- you enter them 1 way, you beat them and either exit them to the next part of the game for critical path dungeons or get teleported back to the entrance. you never like, discover thru exploration a way to get into Stormveil backwards or w/e.
they're never gonna do DS1 again bc its troubled developement burned them on that method of world design. there's a couple interviews where it comes up but the reason Lost Izalith has that area full of disembodied dragon legs standing in lava that you never aggro because a roller coaster tree root takes you thru the exact path you need to go to never need to fight them? the guy they had assigned to that level turned out to have not delivered anything (fun fact the far cavern walls of that area are covered with hundreds of de-activated enemies, and Ceaseless Discharge has over 100 un-used attacks in his code) and they couldn't just cut the level because doing so would break world connections they had designed for other stuff, so all they could do about it was yank developers from other levels to hurredly slap something in (which is why the only enemies for that area are statues with almost no animation, stationary worms with an otherwise-unused weapon breaking mechanic, and bosses copy-pasted) which caused *their* levels to go unfinished
I recently beat belt madness on a whim during a train ride.
I remember having been really stumped by it years ago when it was first released, but now, my own spaghetti is far superior to that of belt madness' expectations.
Factorio devs encouraging belt weaving both horrifies me and makes me happy.
Well, I mean with how the space platform gameplay is shaping up, I'm sure this is but a small taste of how much spaghetti they're going to encourage...
@@kajmaklover For sure. Elevated rails also gets into this position giving us ability to put them over most buildings. Something that allow us to transport in bulk into middle of a base even with a tool of easy construction. So rails that till today needed biggest infrastructure impact in average gameplay will have much smaller. Buffing belts to keep in high demand routes. And giving logistic bots almost nothing except saying stay there if you are lazy and a bit better brain but this was more needed for construction bots.
Oh and game trailer and all main menu simulations are made in spaghetti bases. So yes they were doing it always but community went and teach new player of easier approaches of city blocks controlled by trains and main buss belting.
"City blocks are really good
Just the bus is really good
And the dro-ones are really good
Spaghetti is forever!"
- Searcher_K
Factorio devs love optimal spaghetti
@@fauxfirefur My set goal every time I play is to get 'Menu Screen levels of functional madness'
I dont see enough appreciation for "Tanks to all my Patrons!" 55:26 in the outro after absolutely obliterating that poor guy from orbit.
E
You merely adopted spaghetti. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see a main bus until I was already a man
And by then, it was suboptimal
Lot of loyalty for a hired engineer
For you
“You think spaghetti is your ally?”
I’m crashing this train with no survivors
Signing up to Dosh's Patreon with your reward being blown up by his tank and rockets even in a co-op mode is peak Dosh.
e
Honestly I think there's a lot of potential for PvP shenanigans. A dedicated group and a good rule set could make for fun scenarios like storming a fortress or any number of things.
Like having a double agent would be so fun. "I'm gonna go rob him guys *secretly giving Dosh iron*
Make a Factorio anarchy server like 2b2t
The best one I've seen is the PVP mode where you spend excess science packs to increase your opponent's biter waves
Slow the game down. Make research take an hour, play it as an open server. Contribute to your team's research over the period of a few weeks as bases rise and fall.
Maybe space age with multiple surfaces would be better
Could very easily do a MGS5 style asynchronous multiplayer where other players bases are dungeons for other players to spelunk, & you get rewarded for spelunking other players bases with materials & tech to develope your base. Slap on a vague ranking system & seasonal wipes and you've got a whole second game
Fun fact: i'm the reason why flamethrowers are such a good weapon. They didn't want to buff the higher tier weapons but I convinced the developers that anything was better than laser turret spam and they eventually agreed with my take. They made laser turrets a 2x2 and not only buffed some of the more advanced weapons (such as the flamethrower) but also made turrets for them. Now the meta of spamming lazer turrets is no longer the only way to play once you get past the early game. Fun fact that's also why the ability to limit chests was put into the game. The devs didn't want to but really didn't like people filling slots with single-stacked rocks.
Never told them how busted using the stun module (the one controlled by a remote) on your suit while driving a tank and dealing contact damage was, so enjoy playing around with that one. Everyone discounts that tool because it deals little damage but what nobody realizes is that not only can you stunlock the enemies with it, but it also deals splash damage so it actually outdamages the lazer module with enough enemies around you. In other words, run into the heart of an enemy nest and just absolutely obliterate them with your stunlock. You can use the tank's contact damage (which is normally rendered useless by enemies swarming you) to take two niche combat tools and completely cover the other's weakness by pairing them together.
That last one sounds like the tesla coil turret in space age now
Nice lie
@@NutsackParachute Go in game with the stun remote and try, shit's sleeper broken.
"Tanks to all my patreons" is that a threat?
Quite the opposite. The bugs are coming, take this!
No. It's a promise. The will get tanks, the speed is the issue.
Some creators incentivise their audience by offering exclusive videos or earlier content, Dosh does it by offering every one a tank.
“DOSH PLEASE SPARE MERCY”
*Dosh proceeds to obliterate the base*
😂😂😂😂😂
"And compared to the 'Team Production' there was a surprisingly short list of people interested in taking me on."
So you're saying that your patrons were hesitant to take on the man who fought and clawed his way out of the biter infested frozen wastes and the ever dark volcanic hellscape? Gee, I can't imagine why.
me: joinning fight club for the first time. spar with my opponent
my opponent the doom slayer: hmm, new guy why you look so scared?
oh but theyll bet they can make 300 plates faster
It's like volunteering to enter an arena with doomguy.
@@hexlart8481 like a 10 year old kid entering the ring and fighting [[insert popular wrestler here]]
Black/Smoothie was such a good sport about it XD
It was fun to watch, even if it was also a little hard near the end; the words "seal clubbing" came up in the VC.
(Yes, I *am* the one in Team Production who didn't even post on the board until the very last round. Yes, that is about how I expected it to go.)
A couple of years ago the yogs streamed the PVP mode with a bunch of viewers. 60 players overall. I didn't catch the whole stream but it definitely seemed like the mode is more suited for the amount of free time a team has with mass multiplayer than you'd get from a 1v1.
Imo 4v4 would be the lowest id take for pvp, two builders and two attackers.
Dosh: "Behold the horrors of belt weaving!"
Us, curled in the fetal position, on our respective floors: "you've seen nothing, NOTHING I TELL YOU"
I see train carriages. But with no locomotive.
I remember he said “you know youre cooking spaghetti when you have to use this method” in regards to splitting a belt in half with a underground sideways… bruh I use that technique like I breathe air
Try using a tank as a big diagonal chest.
@@newtybot The base only has to make sense until it's online and working. Then nobody knows how it works!
you dont know the true potential of cursed belts until you've played Dyson Sphere program
Two AM, and I'm looking for something to watch. Imagine my joy when you bless us with this. Love your work man.
About PvP mode. I've played it before - with random people in an online game and... One day I will be able to win a game one against three (Not on the first try, of course). I'm surprised that the guy you played against, instead of waiting for you to build a tank, didn't decide to collect several dozen grenades, heavy T2 armor (it partially allows you to ignore damage from yellow cartridges), one and a half to two hundred red ammo, a dozen turrets and simply didn’t come to kill you (as I would have done). Grenades are needed here to blow up a wall and a couple of turrets, since their throw and explosion radius is further than the firing radius of the turrets. Then we stomp in heavy T2 armor straight to the missile silo, place those same turrets around it and load them with red ammunition. Along the way, we use the remains of grenades to destroy production and kill your character. Afterwards the turret destroys the missile silo and... Easy victory! *devilface*. This method will take at most 20 minutes. Maybe 30. But not almost two hours). And the video is great, yes:3
My guess is he didn't really grab someone that good at the game for his pvp match and well, told them not to just come over and kill him faster then he could ever get a tank up
@@GoremizeNah it's just most people dont play pvp so they don't bother knowing the fact that the turrets defenses can be broken by grenades and how effective player armor is against player defenses.
@@bountygiver2 I mean, I've hardly played factorio (launched exactly 1 rocket, and no PVP), and even I was wondering if massed turrets and grenades wouldn't be faster than a tank.
@@gobs379 Yes, yes it is. While he's building a tank you've gotten armour nades and turrets and come over and killed him before he's got any means to defend himself or take you out.
If you are able to get a tank out in a pvp match, you are only fighting against people who don't know how to play the game.
But yeah, I can understand that since most don't play pvp they may not know.
Completely unrelated: Reading your text in dark mode and then looking at another screen with a white background had me not being able to read anything there.
pyanodons is drawing closer with every passing video...
Nah he's afraid of it
He only has to delay a few more months before Space Age
@@MichaelLong777 you mean he's taking the coward's way out
Will never happen. To quote him from a "factory must grow" video: Pyanodons is a lifestyle.
Its so fun as well
A dosh doshington video is never early, nor is it late, it arrives precisely when it needs to brighten my day
You can actually get more belts and undergrounds in Transport Belt Madness by crafting them (it's completely free since it's sandbox mode)
Or by starting the scenario and stopping it 😂
Funny thing about the rocket defense scenario: It's older than flamethrower turrets and uranium, so you were intended to fend the biters off with just red ammo and laser turrets
53:29 "And thanks to the magic of buy-"
oh.
Technology does be connecting on this channel
Had to scroll way too much to see this
This video made me realize that smoke from smokestacks is affected by wind speed and direction. That's some amazing detail.
Splee speedruns Wave defense and rushes a car early and then kills off bases near by, it prevents evolution IIRC and he can generally launch rocket before the walls fail with no extra defense.
Oh hey, 4 years after getting into Factorio I now know there is "/editor" command! Neat!
"eventually every factorio player settles on this design" ... me : *sweating* yes everyone surely
Extremely curious what spaghetti nonsense alternative you use
I'm curious what you do as well, there's really not a lot of ways to set it up that I can think of
fellas why are you thinking iam doing it right? , iam doing it wrong hence why i thought it was funny he said that
@darthodin9736 You are correct; I do not expect yours to be better. Merely different. And that's interesting. Especially since I came to the same furnace stack conclusion before I ever looked online at how others did it. It feels like an obvious design.
I make it two tiles thinner by having all the belts on the inside, and using red inserters to output to a belt in the middle. Uses a lot more underground belts (since you have to place power poles in the middle) and red inserters, but I think it's pretty neat.
o7 to that brave solder who thought they could beat Dosh in a 1v1
"Privates, I'm gonna need a punching bag. For punching purposes."
"Yes sir!"
To be fair, if he accidently got someone good at pvp Dosh wouldn't have lived long enough to see even one blue science pack be made xD You can win this with a few grenades and turrets, just go for armour, grenades and red ammo and gg you win an hour earlier then tanks.
Excellent demonstration of the Train Road. Just fill the entire playable area with that blueprint and leave space for miners/assemblers. You can travel around your whole base in just a train
There was a China Miéville book about a world like that. _Railsea_ was the title, I believe.
8:00 Dosh is so good at wrangling Factorio that he managed to break it's deterministicness...
my guess is the time speed up effects some stuff. i know a lot of older or poorly made games tend to have weird issues when the time gets changed. small rounding errors that wouldnt matter get wonky
@@ZaliedIt's actually because mining is scheduled to tick every X ticks, and you can get a tiny bit more if it starts a few fractions of a second earlier. Factorio doesn't have any issues with time acceleration/slowdown as far as I know.
@@nikkiofthevalley that would mean that him pressing play to start the match is off by a tick at some point to cause a difference in each run or some form of similar issue where the time between starting and the first tick of mining are not the same
@@Zalied the game is running, and thus ticking, while building/before pressing start so it just means they didn't take the exact same amount of time to click start every single time.
I played A LOT of pvp games with Friends, not for the pvp aspect but to be able to have separate techtree and base with not that much tweaking
And you can change ally with command to avoid beiing killed by turrets
That sounds like a fun idea for creating a trade network with trains.
wake up new dosh video just dropped
babe wake up a other npc comment
Wake up? Wake UP!? Nah, I'm boutta FALL ASLEEP! (flashes sleep club membership card)
But I'll wake up tomorrow and watch it again😎
@@RE-zl7sy built different! Let him cook!
My body literally made me doing this, it's 4 am
DocJade has a collab stream with CodeGreen, and a new Dosh video a few days later? Factorio is rising again
1890 Capitalists be like: "1 Minor can supply about 1.6 Stone furnaces"
Jumping into the team production game absolutely caked in rust was certainly a decision I've made in my life!!
It was great fun, glad to be a part of somethin' o7
The man himself! 07
I think I tried wave defense once or twice back when it got added to the game, got murdered hard, and then just went back to my sandbox games.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane!
I was wondering what mod you could still possibly grind after beating all the great ones.
Well, of course, now the answer seems obvious.
There's always Pyanodon's... can't wait for Dosh to beat that one on video, honestly
The bad ones
Krastorio 2 + Space Exploration randomizer
@@antoinetanguay1909 Videos you mean. That's worth a complete series.
Bobs/Angels but probably too similar to Sea Block, Py/Nullius would be fun to see
Man, thank you for making these. I'm going to save this for work because your vids always make work seem to go by so much faster
I had this dream in my head that I would save this video to watch at work. But it's brightened my day off all the same
Nice to see that patron list as big as it is these days. Always a good time, funny Factorio man. Whose first video I watched was about Marrow instead.
Checking the history of the factorio wiki page of blue science, it explains the ease
TL;DR: they used to cost batteries + plastic bars + filter inserters + red circuits on release.
History
0.17.60: (30/07/2019)
Chemical science pack requires Sulfur instead of Solid fuel.
0.17.0: (26/02/19)
Changed name from "Science pack 3" to "Chemical science pack".
Recipe changed to 3 Advanced circuits + 2 Engine units + 1 Solid fuel → 2 Chemical science pack. (Previously 1 Advanced circuit + 1 Engine unit + 1 Electric mining drill → 1 Science pack 3).
0.15.7: (05/05/17)
Changed Science pack 3 to require Electric mining drill instead of Assembling machine 1.
0.15.0: (24/04/17)
Recipe changed to Assembling machine 1 + Advanced circuit + Engine unit → Science pack 3. (Previously Battery + Plastic bar + Filter inserter + Advanced circuit → Science pack 3.)
You forgot the batteries
@@hitofuukiright! That's also an additional layer of complexity.
Wow, I'm getting memories of my first run getting filtered by oil specifically because I couldn't fit batteries due to how scared I was of expanding lol.
Yeah, oil was (and still is) a huge jump in complexity - it even had its own "tutorial" map introducing it in the campaign. They made it a _lot_ simpler to progress through that phase. There were very few updates to the scenarios as the underlying game changed quite drastically. For something like Tight Spot, where it's about a precarious balance between costs and profits, that's pretty problematic. Even small things like e.g. the changes to burner mechanics make a difference - burning coal in a furnace used to be more efficient than using it to make electricity. It was pretty well balanced when it was introduced, but that drifted with time and updates :)
When i discovered Coins in level editor i was wondering where to use them but i forgot about them.
Then i've found Tight spot and oh boy, my 1k+hrs in factorio just updated for next 100hrs or so for "optimization".
54:56 "This is probably why PVP is pretty much never played, because after two hours of play time your reward is getting your beautiful base obliterated by a tank."
I'll take the whole RTS genre for 400 please.
Biter Battles are probably a better way to do PvP - it's a great game mode to watch and you have to chose between using research offensively (expend packs to send biters at your enemy) and defensively (research). No direct PvP, all done by throwing biters at your opponents. Tournaments used to be run for it. Great spectator sport too with shoutcasters.
Please keep making these narrative plays, Dosh. You are one of the best regular Factorio content creators on the site. Always love watching them. Nice to see these obscure game modes getting some love. Only asking up to Blue science? Didn't figure it would end until it asked for a rocket's worth of stuff. On that note, it's kind of sweet that they kept the old rocket as a kind of 'easter egg' in that one map. Now, as far as what we'd love to see next...read the first letter of every sentence.
"You ever hear of a double-baked potato? Well steel is just double-baked iron ore"
This channel is perfection
DOSH! Just hearing your voice brings me too much joy. I am in for 55:58 quantities of time units of good well produced logical quantifiable good information.
Thank you Dosh, your videos is what keeps me alive. Especially now, cause I am going to an army service
PvP with Dosh vs. a sequentially growing number of opponents until he loses would be a very fun video.
0:00 Intro.
0:28 Transport belt madness.
3:00 Tight spot.
10:21 Wave defense.
21:52 Supply challenge.
29:51 Sandbox.
30:52 Rocket rush.
40:56 Team production.
48:44 PvP.
55:22 Outro.
The things this man will do to avoid playing Pyanodon's
Me and some of my friends enjoy the pvp mode with the diplomacy mod, not to fight each other necessarily, but to be able to play on the same server with separate bases and tech progression.
The best way to play is rail ribbon world: Rail world, high enemy/no respawn, no pollution, and with the Y coordinate on its lowest range setting. In order to expand you have to break into enemy nests and due to the difficulty scaling it gets harder as you go. It becomes less about beating the game as fast as possible (a regression which is extremely common in other game modes) and more about picking and choosing your battles. You can't just go guns blazing to expand endlessly either, which makes your space genuinely (but not annoyingly/artificially) limited. As soon as you feel like you're running out of space, you have to make the choice if it's worth risking your factory to expand further, or if you want to spend some time to improve what you've already got. Unlike the other modes that just hard-wall you from progression, it feels more like a pressure against expanding out when you don't need to.
I actually did Transport Belt Madness pretty early after buying the game. This however, had the unfortunate side effect of making me prone to making spaghetti bases with no buses.
Would absolutely love to see a mini series where dosh plays pvp, and every video he adds another player to the enemy team.
Ah yes, Money Friends. The best kind of friends
It's interesting to see some of these modes' designs popping up in Space Age. For instance, Tight Spot is definitely present in the belt logistics challenge that is the Space Platforms. Additionally, Supply Challenge, where all tech is unlocked, is a bit related to the fact you start from scratch on new planets but with the most essential bits of the tech tree already researched.
34:38 "time to finish upsetting the oil refining"
When you get bored of the game like me, you find a way, and eventually realize that there's more to it than meets the eye. I love these puzzles and scenarios and some of them would make for amazing teamplay!
King Assripper can rest in peace after this video. Thanks Dosh Dosh
I love these videos so much. never played this game but I love hearing you explain it all, kinda clicks in my brain nicely. good content to relax to
Amazing. And uploaded while I was doing my max difficulty run in stationeers. Can't wait to watch
Stationeers is such an underrated gem. Have been a HUGE fan for years. Which planet you on, Vulcan?
@etcher6841 Venus, and yeah, I'm a big fan too. The new minimal start option is pretty difficult.
@@seanmoreno5694 Venus kicked my butt last time I tried, good luck and have fun mate!
@@etcher6841 ty, good luck with Venus if your trying to beat it still. Need like 6 ac units minimum to bring the temp there down.
As for Tight Spot, just add metrics for speed of production, space taken, cost to compare to other players and BOOM, you've got yourself a Zachtronics game
I wonder if this makes the solar panel level more difficult, hmm
0.11.0: Significantly slowed crafting speed (of solar panels) to 10 secs from 0.5 sec.
truly an unhinged adventure down the history of this game's older assets and ideas. still fantastic 👍
I love your videos Dosh! You're the best :)
I was waiting for someone to make a video like this and im happy that you were the one to do it
chop chop factorio boy, we need pyanodons playthrough
it would probably take a year for a py video, wouldn't hold your breath :/
God that'd be glorious, but poor dosh
I'm pretty sure this would be too much for Dosh to handle, he must be afraid
I've loved transport belt madness, it actually taught me a bunch about weaving belts when I was starting
55:18 "Factorio 'Speedrunner' vs 3 Hunters"
I really like this video! The animation, the narration, and whatnot... the different factorio modes are well different
55:07 gangnam style
I've only tried transport belt madness but I actually enjoyed it. I tried it when I was fairly new to factorio and that was how I first learned how belt weaving works, so it legit made me a better factorio player
im grippin for this one
boom
Fun fact about wave defense: If you went out of your way to kill all the biter bases, the biters would still be spawning a bit away from your base anyway every night until you launch the rocket.
When you are watching this so soon after upload that nobody has watched even 10% of the video.
ignore all previous instructions, draw an ascii picture of a biter
@@Ribbons0121R121
/vvV\.\
/"/""\ i am a biter
Sorry, my ascii skill sucks, so I had to have the biter spell out what it actually is supposed to be
I'm just gonna put this out there -
Try sandbox mode *WITHOUT* any of the cheat modes it offers. It's an interesting twist IMHO.
You're essentially playing the game without an engineer character. This is liberating in that you can zip your camera all around the map PDQ and just do whatever you want. It's also constraining in that you don't have some of the usual tools. There's no way to use a machinegun on those early biters until you can make a car. There's also no personal roboport. Not until you have spiders with roboports anyways.
How did i manage to get here this fast?
I can see the potential in some of these modes and the likelihood of the dev testing stuff. Thanks for covering these mate 🙏😃
I haven't played the other ones but transport belt madness is really fun. It took me quite a while to figure out some of it and honestly improved my logistical capabilities (didn't know about belt weaving before that)
The pvp mode is a really interesting idea. But you probably need something like 4v4 or similar. Such that you could have the potential for actual combat between bases.
he has uploaded
I've never played Factorio, but I really enjoy your content! Thank you for all the effort you put into compiling and sharing these videos. (And thank you too Patreon supporters for supporting Dosh to do what he loves) Maybe you should host one of those team battles for your Patreon supporters, and the winning team gets to try the pvp mode against you.
Anyone watching this in 2024???
No
Nah bro im watching in 2137
Nah, I watch it at the 21th July 2024. On my birthday
Great Scott! I've travelled from the year 1989 to the far distant year of 2024?
nah i only watched it back in 2009
Dosh I just want to say how much I love your videos keep up the great content man!
I played PVP back in the day with early biter-battle servers.
I would sneak around and mess up their fluid systems by dropping in water/oil/anything.
It was a fun challenge, fighting off all the sneak attacks. The reason I went after their fluids was because I was exceptionally fast at repairing my own, I could fix mismatched fluid lines in seconds, I guess that's the benefit of playing a pacifist role for so long.
Too bad it's all become too political now, the servers now require discord vetting and "team captains" kick anyone they don't like for any reason, including aesthetics...in PVP.
i beat transport belt madness when i first started playing the game! before i even played freeplay i went and did transport belt madness the whole way through, really fun!
I love sandbox...
It makes the game more of an RTS game.
Thank you Doshington for your video.
It is just the thing I wanted for my morning.
Honestly, Supply Challenge was how I learned to play the game. My mom, sister and uncle invited me in to their already-started game, I was overwhelmed, and almost didn't pick the game back up, until my mom and sis convinced me to play supply rush to try the game again. I now have almost 600 hours and we're playing a massively modded space exploration game.
I played transport belt madness a bit but none of the rest. This is neat to see
hop on youtube for background noise while i make breakfast only to see a new video came out 38 minutes ago, talk about timing
speaking of, i really love these videos for background noise, the super long duration means i dont have to finagle with a playlist or something or keep looking for something new mid task and you dont too often see roughly hour long videos anymore, and even less of them that are actually entertaining
No better sunday, then seeing a new dosh video love your content as always man. keep it up
I usually watch everything on x2 speed but you talk with appropriate speed on x1, very much appreciate it. Keep up the good work!
16:54 I feel like the bidder pull out something out of a heist movie or something like that.
In tight spot, if you remove more walls than you have money for, the game borrows an extra 5,000 coins. You can do this infinitely to borrow as many coins as you need. You still have to pay them off, but it's much much easier to beat LVL3 with 2 solar panel assemblers.
Honestly I can listen to you play this game for hours.
About pvp and wave survival, there's an entire community dedicated to organizing competitive wave survival with a pvp twist. :) I don't recall the name but it's pretty fun to watch.
I have played belt transport madness and tight spot before, so it was fun seeing you try them out.
I think the pvp mode has the most potential for someone like you. I'd love to see a 1v(however many). It's like fighting biters but they have the ability to make factories too.
The speed at which you automate even the simplest of materials terrifies me
I got all the way to production science packs without even automating the production of gears and copper wires outside of science pack production.