What Went Wrong for Sonic Superstars?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 бер 2024
- It wasn't just the bosses.
Sonic Superstars is almost everything I dreamed a follow-up to Sonic Mania could be ever since that game was released over 6 years ago. I want to love the game so bad BUT there are some aspects of the game that we're going to discuss in this video that hold it back from being among the classics.
This is a review of sorts, but I'm mostly here to call attention to the overall approach to Sonic Superstars' design that left me rather disappointed in the final product.
---------------------------------------
Join the Neat Club: NeatOnTheRocks.com
--------------------------------------- - Ігри
The conclusion statement really says it all. Their heart's in the right place, but it ain't no Sonic Overture
2:20 is the scream of a man whose back has been broken by that last damn piece of straw.
Long Answer: Everything
Short Answer: Boss Battles
WHY ISNT THE MULTIPLAYER SPLIT SCREEN. We literally just kept zooming of the screen. Then the bosses were SO LONG most of it was literally just sitting there watching each other take 10 mins to defeat the boss half of us died to at the very start.
Hot Take: Sonic Superstars is just Sonic's version of Megaman & Bass due to the enemy placements and spaz bosses
More like a new super mario bros wii for the sonic series but yea
@@KperaOfficialNo. That's more akin towards Sonic 4: Epilog.
6:53 holy shit I knew about stuff like the ghosts already being released but I never realized this
Really goes to show how good Sonic 3 is
Same!! And *then* I realized JUST NOW why Knuckles' Angel Island Act 2 doesn't have water in it (while it did in Sonic's story).
My main issue with this game are the bosses and enemies. They do offer challenge but way too much challenge. Any enemy can just two shot you no matter how many rings you have and you don’t know when the rings disappear. They just vanish.
YES ong this pissed me off so bad in the Frozen Base Act 1 boss
I remember the zone with the sky I forgot what it was called but there was this boss that had saws and I lost all my rings and risked dying whenever I would grab them.@@NeatOnTheRocks
They took "Sonic games are too easy" way too seriously
“Mania did it so Superstars had to do it worse” really does seem to be this game’s MO.
I agree, unfortunately
You're getting so working up about minor points - subscribing.
How you explained why the boss fights don't work, and what made a good boss fight, was perfect!
Thank you!
the final trip boss against fang makes me cry
i've still never beat it and i don't plan to ever even think of suffering through it again unless there's a patch
heres 2 very important tips that helped me beat it
1. you regain your emerald abilities at the start of phase 2
2. during phase 2, always have time slow with you. fang can do his face drop at any moment and you have no time to react if you do it the intended way.
While these are definitely legit problems with the game, the actual “sonic game” part of it is really fun. The level design is great and time attacking them is super fun, just like any other classic game
I agree, I just wish that was more of the experience
"Makes me want to go postal, and I'm self employed" really made me laugh.
0:44 *The Titans have just pulled up at your front door, START RUNNING*
Honestly Expected another Anti-Spindash Propaganda Challenge Video
This is pretty cool all the same
You make great points I can respect, even if they impact my experience less than yours
2:20 i felt that. I beat an underwater boss and after the last hit, while he was breaking down, i got hit by a needle. With no rings.
I like this style of video and genuinely agree with all your points as those were why I haven’t purchased the game yet. The point about the medals is especially poignant to me because their use is so confined I rarely would ever go out of my way to “explore” the level which is one of my favorite things to do in 2D Sonic games. Hoping the next game is better received.
I agree. It's crazy how much these medals are somehow a worse reward and less intrinsicly motivating than the extra lives, shields, and etc. That are basically pointless in the classics once you reach a skill threshold. And yet, exploring and finding those secrets is so much more fun in those games.
Idk why I love this game
That's great! I wish I did too
Because it's good. You don't have to feel bad about liking a video game, regardless of what this community says.
Sonic superstars is my favorite game I love it so much I made it my number one classic sonic game and I give it a 10/10
@@vividcolorandrichaudio6134 I sort of hate this fandom for this. Whenever a Sonic game isn't the second coming of Christ, we whip out the "almost"s and start complaining. No Sonic game is ever allowed to simply be good - it has to be breathtakingly amazing or we start to tear it down.
Superstars is a good game. And that's all it needs to be.
I am so happy to see more sonic videos, your way of explaining sonic games entertains me and informs me
Glad to hear it!
I agree with this video. What a crying shame the core of this game is. I feel as if the Mania team was sacrificed for this game.
I'll aslo say for how "original" this game is, it sure feels derivative, like, all of its gimmicks are just reskinned versions of things done before.
I see a lot of the Sonic fanbase trash Sonic Mania for being "unoriginal" because of the revisited zones, but each Act 2 did something brand new with the concepts presented, I cannot say the same for Sonic Superstars.
Agreed
You had me until the drop dash comment. That ability alone makes me play as Sonic in most of his 2D outings and there's a reason that its been in EVERY following classic sonic game, fangame, etc. I don't think it's shoehorned, it's just a valuable extension of Sonic's moveset that has completely changed the way I go about playing classic Sonic games.
Your opinion is valid, but I would easily make the same argument for the insta-shield, which hasn't been anything more than a rare unlockable in 20 years
I noticed that Knuckles had different backgrounds (not floating first level but) and that you landed on popped prisons but it never occurred to me that it's full sequel territory. thank you for the context that my kid mind never noticed!
That cutscene of Egg Robo rising up also plays at the end of Sonic's campaign! (But only if it's S3&K and get the chaos emeralds, but not the super emeralds--or it's S&K and you get the chaos emeralds... I believe!)
@@NeatOnTheRocks I think I've only played Knuckles alone like twice..... S3&K a million times (when lock on worked) and later rom hacks to add bigger better more are the way i've gone it since
@@RahhmiPoofs Same
0:09 Didn’t the game release half a year ago? At this point: Sega has realized that most people don’t care about spoilers because of how long the game has been out, so that’s why there’s now official art of Trip unmasked by the official Japanese Sonic account. I get this would be more appropriate in late-2023, but we’re currently in early-2024.
Number 1, I initially planned to release this video a lot sooner, but the negativity of the experience took it out of me and I stepped away from it for a while. Number 2, I was just being considerate to those who hadn't played the game yet, since I specifically show moments from later in the game before I mention that I'm going to talk about the ending and such.
You are correct because when i first started playing sonic at 8 years old i wanted to choose other characters like knuckles because sonic was boring especially because i was a beginner. 4:42
No way
some people call this skill issue when you have better boss battle in Mania? Especially Egg reverie
What I like about Sonic boss fight in classic games, is that I can beat them faster once I master the fight, but this seem doesn’t apply to Superstars at all. Even though I can cheese some of them with emerald and super form, they still suck
Music, level design, trip story are the other major problems
Also, Golden Capital is probably the most disappointing stage because I like the idea and visuals of this stage, but I can’t stand the music, level design(especially trip story) and FANG
2:20
As a coping mechanism, I like to think about
[Spoilers for Pizza Tower, I guess]
when Peppino goes insane during the final boss rush and beats the ****ing **** out of all the bosses. But I replace all of them with the Master King himself, Fang, Eggman, the Eggrobo, and the Dick Dragon.
okay in defense of the Quartz Quadrant boss: it's VERY funny
Lol true
I dont WANT to agree with you. I WANT you to be wrong. Sadly you are completely correct. Damn it, we could have had Mania 2.
I feel this comment so hard that I almost didn't make this video lol, like I would have to adnit defeat in a way
%05:42 I think, looking closer to the game, I think the idea is, Sonic is not the main protagonist of Sonic Superstars, least not only him. The main character of the main story mode seems to have been meant to be Sonic and friends, basically as co-protagonists. This idea if the case, has not been fleshed as well as it should.
That would explain stuff like the character levels though.
3:02
I would say more so, there is one free hit pass, three pretty/a little useful attacks, and time wasters.
I agree with you 100%. I wish I could say that I love this game. It left a very bad taste in my mouth since I literally stayed up until midnight waiting for it, and I even got the digital deluxe version because I was hyped.
I don’t know. Sonic Superstars just makes me feel weird.
Agree entirely. Yknow, sometime after Sonic Generations, I stopped letting myself get excited for Sonic games, so that I could save myself from being disappointed. Sonic Frontiers and the movies got me *excited* for Sonic again, and immediately on the first game I was hype about I was disappointed lol. Oh well
You can skip the bosses? Might actually finish Trip's story now
hopefully the plus version fixes said issues. :D
At first I hates the bosses as well but over time i’ve come to appreciate some of them more, Press Factory act 2’s boss being my favourite. Fang’s fight is still absolutely horrible and is the reason i never replay golden capital lol
I actually do like Press Factory 2's boss as well, though him killing me from across the room while I was Super Trip was cheeks lmao
I honestly love this game. Yes I do agree with the bosses but I love the powers and levels minus that one that goes dark. I do get your points though. I bought it for 30 but definitely think should have been 40 at most.
AWESOME game design video, thank you :D
The fact it uses 3D animation
Superstars SEMI-boss enjoyer here (by semi, I mean all three final bosses are hot garbage no matter how you slice it) and I honestly think the boss music plays a lot into why people dislike these so much. The early game boss theme (which also for some baffling reason plays during the Zone 8 Fang fight, WHY???) is not only among the worst songs in the game, but also one of the most repetitive, which from a psychological standpoint can make a lot of these feel longer than they already are. Mania for example had a boss or two that overstayed its welcome i.e. Hydrocity Act 2 but we had awesome tracks like Ruby Delusions that made you WANT to keep playing just so that you could keep listening.
Not denying that the boss formula of this game is indeed problematic at points, especially at the end, but I think the music definitely ties into a lot of the sourness towards them as a whole.
Agreeeeed
This Game Just Proves Classic Eggman Is Smarter Than Modern Eggman
I actually really like this game. I love the look of it. I do think it’s fun but OH BOY the boss fights PISS ME OFF
I will say. The bosses in this game are very hit or miss. Good one's like Speed Jungle Act 2 and Cyber Station Act 1 and then Bad one's like Both of Fang's fights. That isn't a boss. That is just cheapness with 'gotcha' traps. Though i do like the Main Stories Final Boss once i got used to it.
So yeah just thought I'd share my 2 cents on my thoughts about the bosses.
Speed Jungle Act 2 suffers the same way the Lava Reef boss does in that there's no way to damage it, you have to wait for it to damage itself. Emerald powers are useless, and going super means you literally just wait around for the boss to die
I just finished superstar's yesterday and honestly while I usually 100% any game I touch, sonic games especially I just can't really be bothered to do that with superstars, I got all the emeralds, made it through the main campaign and beat the most tedious yet bollocks final boss possible and just cannot find the energy or drive to push through an even "harder" more tedious version of that with an even more tedious and bollocks final boss for an out of nowhere tedious and bollocks final final boss and some internal brownie points.
the heart is in the game, they wanted to make something new and amazing but the soul is missing, the fundamental fun and understanding is fucked (Liked the bosses DESIGN wise and some of the level's were at least intresting but its just not that good a game, certainly not bad, just not good)
"I got all the emeralds, made it through the main campaign and beat the most tedious yet bollocks final boss possible and just cannot find the energy or drive to push through an even "harder" more tedious version of that with an even more tedious and bollocks final boss for an out of nowhere tedious and bollocks final final boss and some internal brownie points."
Best review I've read for this game
It isn't the 90's anymore?
Not a clue why they gave the soundtrack to both Jun Senoue and Tee Lopes. Jun keeps thinking his "classic" music isn't god awful.
Might be a hot take... but why can't a Sonic game ever be allowed to be "simply good"? Why do we always whip out the "almost"s as soon as one isn't among the best ever Sonic games released? Nothing "went wrong" - Sonic Superstars is a good, really fun game. And it doesn't NEED to be more than that.
I feel like I spent the entire video explaining why I need to whip out the "almost". It's a good, really fun game only about 1/3rd of the time I spent playing it. If it were just a plain bad game, it wouldn't be worth spending my time criticizing: but I want fans of these games and anyone who watches this video to be able to articulate exactly which design choices were mistakes, so we can hold the creators to higher standards with their next games.
My personal issue is that the games just too much money for “simply good”. A $60 game should be expected to deliver more than a mildly entertaining experience. It’s an issue I honestly have where these games that would be pretty good $30-40 games become mediocre at best when you’re forced to pay the typical $60 that seems to be the standard for any big release these days.
6:18
1: beccause there is no more eggman and fang would never use something other than the marvelous queen to fight poeple and control giant mechs which, surprise surprise, can't be done with machines designed specifically for the egg mobile
2: It might never be the same eggrobo in the mechs, considering levels are now filled with those
Ok but in acting we'd call this "unmotivated decisions"
The Boss design is what killed this game for me.
Counterargument for Sonic being the worst character to pick:
He’s just *so* cool
TRUE
I can't believe I initially struggled with choosing between this game and Mario Wonder when they were first announced last year. Of course I ended up making the wise decision the more I looked into this game, and the main thing about it that made me consider getting it at all are its gorgeous graphics, which really are the only claim to fame it has left. This game just has too many poor game designs plaguing it, which is a real shame because it could've been one of the funnest and best looking Sonic games in a long while, given the tumultuous experimental history the series has going with its entries over the decades. I guess the only other thing Superstars has going for itself is lacking the laughably overrated Sonic Mania's lazy level design.
Even than, Mania's level design is better than this. While most are re-used zones, they added gimmicks or concept to those levels that was never seen in the originals before & doesn't feel like we've been there & done it. Combined with how polished it is, the levels in Mania is alot more fun. Superstar may have all new original zones. But most of them aren't that good because they felt obnoxious and not as fluid as Mania or other classic Sonic games have and with the broken multiplayer & horrendous bosses, that makes it even worst.
For me, the boss fights are the main killing point of my interest. Don't get me wrong, I do like this game, but the bosses are way too tedious and long compared to games, like, say, Sonic Mania, having the boss fights be a balance of challenging and fair. However, unlike games like Forces, I think they nailed the physics, so I think another go at something like this, and maybe they'll learn from their mistakes, who knows?
Honestly for me, the worst parts are the final bosses for both stories, because their so, so unforgiving, i cant remember how long ot took to finish it in the main story but it took me all day to beat trips final boss because there are too many instsnt kills and easy pitfalls, and the second faze is just as dumb with that stupid, stupid gun move, i get a final boss is gonna be harder compared to other boss fights in the game but this is on another level, its not even fair after a while
I ragequit on Trip’s final boss trying to fight it normal is there a way to skip it
I think it was patched, but there used to be I believe, worth looking into.
Nothing went wrong the game is very good! I liked the bosses more than in any Sonic game they are more interasting.
Unpopular opinion but respect
4:46 Nah, i still pick drop dash
dude, the characters just accelerate too slowly on this game i dont know why
Fair nuf
They do seem to accelerate REALLY slow, it got to the point where I had to dance back and forth whenever a boss was doing a new move because once whatever it was gonna do was telegraphed it would be too late to move out of the way if I were standing still.
@@NeatOnTheRocks try to change directions with amy on mid-air, it feels so wrong
Horrible Bosses and broken multiplayer not withstanding, my main issue with Superstar comes from the level designs. Most of the time it's an stop & go moments, no sense of speed, the camera is way too close on Sonic & friends and they're be to many enemies, hazards & obstacles that came out of nowhere and the difficulty is obnoxious rather than fair. Not to mentioned there not that intriguing or clever. Also the Emeralds power are very situational and kinda underutilized. The characters are an little bit clunky to play compared to the other classic titles. And lastly and I can't stress enough, the game is yet again; unpolished. If there's one thing that keeps most Sonic games from being good is that Sega wouldn't stop rushing these game and had more time to polished them up. But they refused to do so and released it early anyway cause they wanted to make more money & rivaled Mario that was released exactly the same time as Sonic has.
Apperently a Superstars Plus got leaked
After Mania and Origins, I wouldn't be surprised. Tall order on what they'd have to fix though.
Source?
4:15
Actually, don’t make them like the Death Egg Robot, in my opinion.
That boss is pretty bad with how long and boring it is. And how way to risky not taking the safe root is. And it’s still boring that way.
I disagree, to me it's the culmination of Sonic Boss design. Ideally there'd be a checkpoint after Mecha Sonic and you wouldn't have to worry about game overs, but DER is a perfect example of "you can do it the safe way, and deal with your impatience and urge to go fast, or you can push your precision to the absolute limit". I use to run Individual Level speedruns of Death Egg Zone just because it was so fun.
I don't think Trip is unblance like it's described in the video: her climbing is not as reliable as knuckles, esocially when you are uoside down, znd amy has a higher double jump
But she can climb the ceilings, her wall climbing is faster AND destroys enemies, AND she has the double jump
@@NeatOnTheRocks climbing the cealing is kinda awkward tho, just like grabbing it
Trips and Knuckles story was supposed to happen at the same time as the main story.
It does not make them any better. Just letting you know.
This is factually untrue. You can see the first pod that Sonic and friends take back tk earth from the first ending by Bridge Island zone in the world map during Trip's campaign. Plus all the reasons for both that I mentioned in the video.
2:12 Dafuq. Is this Smash Bros.
Actually it would be better as Smash. Sonic Superstars is uncomfortably MID.
Bad boss fights and barely an explanation of the story.
Under one hour gang
Dont like. *reply*
👇
4:53 Where’s the 8th game?
Sonic Forces, Sonic 1, 2, CD, 3, &K, Frontiers, Superstars. 8 games that the drop dash has been featured, in a row, since Sonic Mania. There's literally 8 games on screen at that timecode
@@NeatOnTheRocks isn’t S3&K one game?
S3&K is a unified experience, but no, Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles were released as separate games@@jaylenbutler899
The bosses are awful
Tbh you probably just had a skill issue. Sonic fans always complained that bosses were too easy so they made them difficult and challenging and here we are people are complaining for what they wanted.
It's definitely not a skill issue @Freedorm
I love difficult bosses. One of my favorite games is Sekiro, and you saw how many hours I have in Terraria
These bosses just aren't fun, regardless of the difficulty. The harder ones just stick out because what would be a couple minutes of not having fun turns into an hour-and-a-half.
I'll start up Sonic Origins just to play the boss rush, whereas I avoid playing Superstars because of the bosses lol
@@NeatOnTheRocks Everyone has their tastes ig lol
Skill issue
Shut up@@Domepeezy
If the bosses were handled like they were in the classic games and mania then this would’ve been an amazing sonic game as I play the classics to pick up and play when I’m bored. I was hoping superstars would be on that list too but the bosses in almost every level and how long it takes to defeat them just ruined it for me. Not a terrible game just would’ve been better if the bosses were handled better.
Boss.
Nooo we need more boss battles like superstsrs just better story
You are 50% correct
At least Trip is cute?
True
The problem with sonic superstars is everything!!!!!!
Meh, the visuals and single-player gameplay in the main levels are decent
@@NeatOnTheRocksI actually agree with him
Superstars is a good game, but pretty boring. Doesn't help the music sounds like it's from Sonic 4
Oh hey, it's Sonic 4 Episode 3. 🤣
I thought it was good tbh.
What went wrong? It was a flimsy imitation of the 16bit era and fell short, by a huge margin. The game is closer to Sonic 4 and plays like a clumsy mess. Doesn’t help that it looks utter dogshit too.
bro has a skill issue with the boss
Did you miss when I said I liked Sekiro? If it were a skill issue, I would've liked it 😂
Ngl I hate these bosses
Same
I like Sonic Superstars but it is no Sonic Mania as that is still the superior game. The Bosses were insanely padded and dragged out in this game.
For me it feelt like Sonic 4 improved. I assume there will be eventually a Sperstars 2 and with faint hope SEGA will make it better.
11:00
"Which is all I'll say on that topic"
Translation: "I refuse to elaborate further because I'm completely clueless about what I'm actually saying"
Of course I know what I'm saying. I'm a musician who's worked directly with creating music with and for the Genesis soundchip, and who could, probably, create an entire video about Sonic 4 & Superstars' approach to emulating the Genesis' sound and everywhere they go wrong in doing so, but why would I when that video would just get comments like these anyway (and, more importantly, Jun Senoue, mad respect that I have for him, should know by now that the Sonic community doesn't appreciate his current approach to that kind of music, since the community is so overwhelmingly vocal about it)
@@NeatOnTheRocks
The fact that you said "Genesis soundchip(singular)" when there's actually 2 already brings up some questions. Could just be a misnomer, but idk.
You also say "Sonic 4 & Superstars' approach" as if it's one, singular thing. Both Episodes of Sonic 4 as well as Superstars use *entirely* different synths from different companies with different patches. S4Ep2 sounds nothing like Ep1. Heck, multiple songs in Superstars use proper Genesis patches, like Main Menu and Press Factory.
"should know by now that the Sonic community doesn't appreciate..."
The Sonic community has failed to deliver any proper constructive criticism, including yourself. I've heard the music be referred to as "synth soundfont", "fake Genesis", "Genesis soundfont", "MIDI soundfont", none of which being remotely close to the truth. I've heard SONIC FORCES be referred to as "Sonic 4 music", even though the music was RECORDED FROM REAL HARDWARE.
Why bother catering to people who don't even know what a synthesizer is, or doesn't know how to use Google? Not a single person has actually explained why the "Sonic 4 music" is inherently bad or lacks any artistic merit. The best you'll get is "I personally don't like the instrumentation", which is a 100% subjective statement that can't be proven or disproven. Yet they make no hesitation to call the music objectively bad. SEGA listening to hardcore Sonic fans has been a disaster the majority of the time, so some criticisms should be rightfully dismissed.
And the whole "overwhelmingly vocal" part may just be a false consensus, as I've seen plenty of people enjoying Jun's songs, and most of them still have positive like/dislike ratios.
If you actually are a musician, I expect better from you.
However, I am interested in seeing a proper video for this. I'd like to see you go into why Lost Labyrinth, or Mad Gear, or Sylvania Castle, or White Park, or Sky Fortress, etc. are all bad songs, because I ain't hearing it.
@@vividcolorandrichaudio6134 I must say I underestimated the pedantry you were prepared to bring to the table. For the record if you want my personal opinion, I do think the Sonic 4 soundtrack is underrated at worst. I quite like Metal Sonic's boss theme, and Oil Desert Act 2 is actually a guilty pleasure.
Jun Senoue has proven time and again to be a masterful composer and arranger, and he deserves a larger role in more Sonic projects. However, his interpretation of modernizing the "vibe" of classic Sonic music into the modern day stand in stark contrast to Tee Lopes, for example. Sonic 4's soundtrack is critically panned, and Mania's is abundantly praised; and the impression I get from others and my personal opinion is that the tracks in Superstars that "sound like Mania" stand high above the ones that "sound like Sonic 4".
Yes, I could create some critical piece that dives into why that is, but it would be spun negatively and picked apart by at least somebody, and it ultimately comes down to subjectivity anyway.
And yes, I'm aware the genesis had 2 sound chips, but one was unique to the Genesis and the other was ripped straight from the Master System. I didn't feel the need to distinguish that I'd also worked with the Master System's chip, but I have
0:40
I think the Classic games has pretty terrible bosses too. A lot of them can be cheese or are very boring to fight.
I much more prefer the bosses in the boost games.
What do you like about the bosses in later games?
whos even "player 2"
My girlfriend
@@NeatOnTheRocks False.
Hot take: Knuckles controls way worse than Sonic in this game. I love Knuckles’ controls in the classic games, but his traits don’t carry over well to Superstars, especially since he has no special route. Plus they put a cap on his glide speed, which is not fun to play around with given that limitation
Agreed, haven't played Knux much but he's significantly less satisfying to play for sure
The game is mediocre in every department, why have those developers of all people make a 2D classic sonic game?
Sonic 4 episode 2 is better than Superstars and Mania in every conceivable way, including the visuals, which is really embarrassing for Superstars.
That's quite the hot take but there are things to like about Episode 2, especially as a Metal Sonic fan
Can I even enjoy a sonic game in peace without NUMBSKULLS like these UA-camrs who complain about every detail
You were, until you elected to click on this video.
Like what if I was like "man can't I complain about Sonic in peace without NUMBSKULLS like these UA-cam Commenters who complain about every detail", I'd kind of be asking for it, wouldn't I?
these criticisms are validified