Hey, commenter! This video was scripted and recorded before Takashi Iizuka confirmed that Sonic Superstars takes place after Sonic Mania. At 15:55, I said that I believed it fit between Sonic 3 and Sonic Mania. I now know this isn't the case, so you don't have to make the comment. The ranking would have likely still been a 4/5 if this was known information. I'll try to ask Iizuka to warn me ahead of time before he makes a statement like that.
Also sorry bc of my bad behaviour when you first arrived in shalvous stream I was caught by the hype and I ddint have time to actually think about the problems
How can Sonic Superstars be canon, when Fang is in it? He was only given major appearances in Triple Trouble, Drift 2 and Sonic the Fighters, NONE of which are considered "mainline" games.
ROUGH AND TUMBLE ARE THE BEST VILLAIN AND EGGMAN IS NOT SUPERIOR THE ONLY VILLAIN WHO IS SUPERIOR IS IMPERATOR IX FROM SONIC CHRONICLES AND IMPERATOR IX CREATED THE PHANTOM RUBY AND MADE THE WAR HAPPEN IN SINIC FIRCES SO YEAH IMPERATOR IX IS SUMPERIOR TO ANYONE AND IMPERATOR IS A THREAT TO EVERYONE AND SONIC THE HEDGEHOG AND SCOORGE THE HEDGEHOG IS A TRUE VILLAIN OF SONIC PRIME LIKE EGGMAN AND EGGMAN IS NOT THE TRUE VILLAIN OF SONIC PRIME AND LIKE I SAID EGGMAN IS NOT SUPERIOR SO BELIEVE I KNOW EGGMAN IS NOT SUPERIOR AFTER FAILING TO DESTROY SONIC AND I KNOW IMPERATOR IC IS SUPERIOR AND WILL RETURN TO ERAISE AND SONIC AND HIS FRIENDS IN THE NEW SONIC GAME SO YEAH BELIEVE ME IMPERATOR IX IS SUPERIOR TO ANYONE AND DR EGGMAN AM I RIGHT
It's arguably the closest thing to a real Sonic 4 but it's not actually called Sonic 4. Sonic Heroes isn't Adventure 3 despite releasing after SA2 and continuing the story.
Hot take but I'm not a fan when new media makes itself a retroactive sequel to something from years ago, even when other entries have come out since. I do think that Knuckles Chaotix (JP version anyway) could be the true Sonic 4 even though Sonic is barely in it. Out of all the games that came out between S3&K and SA1 (including 3D Blast, Triple Trouble, R) Knuckles Chaotix was the only one that felt like it built on the story of 3&K with the Japanese manual mentioning how a new island has risen from the ocean, either from the Master Emerald or Death Egg crashing into Angel Island, I can't remember which
When this man said,“anyone else notice that there was two Green Hill Zones in Sonic Games in 2017, it’s not that big of a deal but it’s weird that it happened twice?”, I said out loud,”Ha! No!”. Also, I have three contenders for Sonic 4, besides Sonic 4, I have Sonic 3, Sonic and Knuckles, and Sonic Superstars. Sonic 3 because of Sonic CD, Sonic and Knuckles because of Sonic 3, and Sonic Superstars because it has original stages and a new character and it doesn’t have a sequel with the same name.
sonic 4 episode 1 and 2 IS the real sonic 4, simply because SEGA made it, thus its cannon technically. Its just not he sonic 4 we deserved or wanted. What the title of this video should be is what SHOULD of been called sonic 4?
I genuinely prefer the idea that Superstars takes place between 3 and Mania, just because the opening cutscene in Mania has Sonic and Tails flying over to Angel Island like in Sonic 3, which would be kinda weird if they JUST finished up beating robotnik there
Was it confirmed that Sonic Mania is RIGHT after 3? Since Fang and his gang are known enough to be wanted and impersonated by the time of Mania, Triple Trouble and The Fighters have probably both happened by then, and have definitely happened by Seasons of Chaos. Sonic & Tails also do Generations after Sonic 3, but since no time passes it doesn’t matter. Anyway Sonic Superstars is canonically after Sonic Mania since the IDW Fang mini series takes place between the two.
I don’t think S&K should be on the list, as it’s literally part of Sonic 3, Sonic 4 should be it’s fully own game, in chronological order, Sonic Mania is, but I think Sonic Superstars is, because it has original zones like Sonic 1, CD, 2, 3 and K
i dont wanna be that "uhm actually" person but triple trouble is not sonic 4, it is a sequel to chaos, its called sonic and tails 2 in japan while chaos is called sonic and tails
I was the one who got Sonic 4 delayed (minecart build). Funnily enough the game was barely different in the end. But lets be honest it sucked from the first reveal (ios looking ass game). Id like to think i helped push things to Mania in the future we were constany talking fangame quality back then. We hyped Stealth and others so hard Sega took notice.
Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the real sonic 4 Change my mind. Edit: Sonic Advance 1 and 2 takes place before Adventure 1 and 3 is after Adventure 2, due to appearance of emerl in advance 3 after becoming evil shortly after sonic battle (gba smash clone) and sonic battle includes shadow.
I'd be lying if I said I didn't like sonic 4 so I wont say it. but I did get the game for free and it's the first sonic game I ever played and the first game I ever got 100% on.
Ok this is such a cop out. Saying sonic & knuckles is the "true" sonic 4 is like saying Sonic 4 episode II is the "true" Sonic 5. So S&K should be disqualified from this.
As much as I love Sonic Mania, it was never something that screamed "Sonic the Hedgehog 4" to me. Just a really fun celebration of the Classic Sonic games. Also, I've lost count about how many times I've seen a new 2D Sonic fangame and saw at least one "This the REAL Sonic 4!" comment.
Technically Sonic 3 is Sonic 4 since Sonic CD released after Sonic 2 making it Sonic 3. If you count Sonic & Knuckles as a stand alone game then Sonic Mania would technically be Sonic 6 but if you count Sonic 4 then Sonic Superstars would be Sonic 9 but that’s only if you count Sonic 4 episode 2 as Sonic 7.
I think the sonic advanced series actually evolved the classic gameplay more than the other 2D sonic sequels. It added new playable characters, and new abilities like tricks and team moves. Also the boost mode is very cool and builds on the idea of having speed being a reward for skilled players.
10:21 Tbf, I believe this game came out at a time when Modern & Classic Sonic were still treated the same. Like you get a Classic Sonic collection, but it has the modern characters on the box art same.
2:41 I'm not sure if this is a translation thing, but I believe the intended story was that the three are working independently, Fang for profit, Eggman to power the final weapon, Knuckles because he believes Sonic is bad at protecting the emeralds (which makes sense considering the plot starts with Eggman collecting them in secret and losing them in an experiment). That also explains why the three don't work as a team, Knuckles being captured by Eggman and so on
The superstars comic with fang implies that eggman and fang worked together multiple times in the past, which would be sonic the fighters and triple trouble, eggman clearly knows fang well enough to recall all of his past aliases
It's like calling Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode II the real Sonic the Hedgehog 5 Sonic & Knuckles is for all intents and purposes Sonic the Hedgehog 3 Episode II
6:34 I always interpreted it (before Sonic Generations anyway) that the flashbacks were the events of the classic games just in a different artstyle/different designs
1- Sonic and Knuckles really is just Sonic 3 Part 2. Might as well combine them both, as originally intended, and call it all Sonic 3 2- Sonic Mania is a celebration of the Genesis Sonic Games. There are some new zones yes, but also a bunch of old zones, so... maybe call it Sonic 3.5? 3- Sonic Origins is.... just a rerelease of the original games. It's more of a Definitive Edition. It's Sonic Mega Collection v.2
In my opinion, Sonic Mania is the Sonic 4 that was officially published, and Triple Trouble 16 bit is the the unofficial Sonic 4. And Superstars is Sonic 5.
That seemed like a technical win for Sonic and Knuckles, felt like we were playing with semantics here. Sonic and Knuckles was clearly intended to be part of the base game of Sonic 3 and came out as an extension doubled down as a stand alone game. The stand alone aspect of the game was a bonus, but lets not forget that it was first and foremost an extension. Its existence as a separate entity repose entirely on technicalities, either be like a lack of development time to release everything at once, or a lack of capacity to hold everything under the same cartridge, or both. To give a weird analogy of what an extension is, for what its worth. It would be like calling Diablo 2 : Lord of Destruction, Diablo 3, which don't really makes sense to me. I didn't dislike the video, but I disagree strongly with the conclusion made. The analyses in the video were good, and by that card I will play with my own semantics to argue Sonic Mania back as the real Sonic 4, lol. Just my opinion, though..
I always considered sonic advance to be the real sonic 4. However it truly doesn’t matter. I also believe sonic 06 is SA3 but it doesn’t make that game any better. The title of a videogame has nothing to do with quality.
SA1 is the best Sonic 4 in my opinion as it’s a proper evolution to the Sonic series, it continues to focus on the gameplay and characters but harder, and it doesn’t reuse too many elements from previous Sonic games. Advance & Superstars barely has a story. Mania is more of a celebration of those games than a true sequel. And Sonic 4. The best kind of Sonic 4 needs to build upon what the previous three games did. 3&K had a bit more focus on story and characters, so I think the true Sonic 4 should try harder on the story. While also keeping the spirit of the trilogy’s gameplay.
Sonic superstars is probably sonic 4. Sonic mania is basically just sonic levels with a few new ones. Sonic superstars is basically reusing the levels from before but that’s kinda what they did. Angel island, emerald hill, green hill and palm tree panic are all very similarly styled with a few new ideas. Casino night, carnival night and one of the bonuses stages are also quite similar. But technically, sonic 3 & knuckles is sonic 4. Sonic 1 (1991, canonically 1st) Sonic 2 (1992, canonically 3rd) Sonic CD (1993, canonically 2nd)
The real Sonic 4 is Sonic 4, it's in the title🤓. Knuckles' Chaotix is Knuckles' Chaotix, Blast is Blast, 3D Blast is 3D Blast, Mania is Mania, Superstars is Superstars, it really doesn't matter, it's all just a subtitle. So yeah, from my POV Sonic 4 is the true Sonic 4 because it's Sonic 4, it really doesn't get any deeper than that to me. Not to undermine your own point, this is just my mindset in general, I don't understand legacies and fuss created over subtitles in such big franchises, I think it's pointless. As a sidenote, I'd like to point out that the chronology in Mania is anything but a 5/5. Let's water it down to Mania having 3 storylines taking place, Mania Mode, Encore Mode and Mania Adventures. Mania connects directly to Forces wirh the time travel that sends Classic Sonic to the war against the Eggman Empire and Infinite in the future at the end and of course the Phantom Ruby. At the end of Forces Classic Sonic waves Tails goodbye and gets sent back and that's the EXACT frame Mania Adventures picks up from, that show starts as soon as the portal closes, Sonic still being on his waving pose. The Phantom Ruby is gone for good as far as the cast's concerned (it reappears in the Sonic Channel Calendar Stories coming out this year but it's irrelevant for now), most especially Classic Sonic. Show focuses on telling a small semi-isolated epilogue to the main game and does a splendid job with it, last episode is set in Christmas eve with Eggman defeated and Metal Sonic kinda trashed... THEN WHERE THE HELL DOES ENCORE MODE FIT?!?! Saying Mania Adventures isn't canon and Encore Mode is right after Forces is both factually false and a bummer since Mania Adventures slaps and is better than Encore Mode as a product/project overall. So in its first second Encore Mode creates issues by showing a Phantom Ruby portal. Sure, let's shrug it off as a random encounter Sonic ran into and got sent to the recent past off-screen, what, does he just repeat the entire adventure practically one-to-one but with Mighry and Ray in the mix and not just Knuckles and Tails? Did the main game basically not happen at all and Encore Mode replaces it? Not to mention Giga Sonic is basically a copy paste of Knuckles' Chaotix Metal Sonic Kai (which is still canon lemme remind ya), which devalues that older title at best and derails its placement into the overall timeline for no reason at worse. I think it's all a big muddy mess, saying it's a 5/5 in terms of continuity is disingenuous in my opinion.
In the most serious sense I genuinely give it to the “Episode” games for their boldness to put “Sonic 4” in the title. In a personal sense I give it to Sonic & Knuckles. S3K was available as a lock-in addition, so despite intent it’s 2 entries in the series.
SK being Sonic 4 makes sense on paper, but it just ain't... Sonic 3K is the result of fucking McDonalds Sonic toys, being a guinee pig for the lock-on tech
I NEED TO SAY THIS: sand sanctuary is sky sanctuary X sandopolis act 1, lagoon city is sky sanctuary X hydrocity and pinball carnaval is carnaval night with more pinball elements and it is my opinion.
13:32 I just want to let you know that I got the reference. “Wow. If I had a nickel for every time I got doomed by a puppet, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice.”
I can't believe you skipped Sonic CD!! ,(you even mentioned it while talking about Mania and Superstars...) Sonic Origins even includes CD! "all four original games" ...Sonic CD is Sonic 4, that's my opinion anyway
for sonic mania you can technically count the reused zones as originals, specifically the act 2s on every zone they changed them and added new mechanics so it technically feels like a brand new zone
@@gangstasonic97573Heroes, Shadow, and Unleashed have very different gameplay styles to the Adventure games. Whereas, Sonic 06 is literally just another Adventure game in everything except name. 06 even has hubworlds and the interconnected character plots where levels feature crossover points between the seperate character stories. I know Heroes has multiple character stories too, but they didn't crossover like what happens in all the Adventure games and 06.
I think you should'nt have called one of the qualifications "uniqueness" and "new levels" instead since you seem to be rather confused on its meaning. For example, many of Mania's Act 2 has unique elements not found in the originals and goes completely unmentioned and unaccounted for including the new bosses.
23:32 "I don't care about the specifics in physics. in this specific instance, subjectivity does not exist! ...why is there sonic utopia footage on the screen?"
For me the real sonic 4 is Sonic 4 Episode 1 and 2. Even if they doesn't deserve their names. Even if it's after Sonic 3 or not, the real Sonic 4 for me is Sonic 4.
They should remake the game that's titled "Sonic the Hedgehog 4" with the Sonic Superstars engine, all of its episodes combined into one game, remixed music, and 4 additional zones afterwards.
I would prefer if they used the Retro Engine (the one that Sonic CD PC Port and Sonic Mania run on), or do a better job with the engine they *did* use (the Sonic Rush engine).
@@gengargamer5657Wait, so the timeline is like: SegaSonic the Hedgehog Sonic the Hedgehog (1991) Sonic the Hedgehog CD Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (1992) Sonic 3 & Knuckles Sonic Mania Sonic Superstars That's right?
@@gengargamer5657Oh, well other than that, that's correct. By the way, is Sonic Pocket Adventure canon? Because at the end of the game Eggman puts on his attire from Sonic Adventure.
Hey, commenter! This video was scripted and recorded before Takashi Iizuka confirmed that Sonic Superstars takes place after Sonic Mania. At 15:55, I said that I believed it fit between Sonic 3 and Sonic Mania. I now know this isn't the case, so you don't have to make the comment. The ranking would have likely still been a 4/5 if this was known information. I'll try to ask Iizuka to warn me ahead of time before he makes a statement like that.
Lmao I think that was bad timing
Also sorry bc of my bad behaviour when you first arrived in shalvous stream I was caught by the hype and I ddint have time to actually think about the problems
Now can you make a video called what is the real Ghostbusters 3?
How can Sonic Superstars be canon, when Fang is in it? He was only given major appearances in Triple Trouble, Drift 2 and Sonic the Fighters, NONE of which are considered "mainline" games.
@@gregzotter6189just because they’re not mainline doesnt mean that they’re not canon
The real Sonic 4 is the friends we made along the way
“Let’s show that Creek the real super power of teamwork”
@@Ok_productions2.0*Creep
"Oh, please, no tedious speech about "super power of teamwork" 🙄"
But they all die so i could get to end. Was all of this for nothing?
ROUGH AND TUMBLE ARE THE BEST VILLAIN AND
EGGMAN IS NOT SUPERIOR
THE ONLY VILLAIN WHO
IS SUPERIOR IS IMPERATOR
IX FROM SONIC CHRONICLES
AND IMPERATOR IX CREATED
THE PHANTOM RUBY AND
MADE THE WAR HAPPEN IN
SINIC FIRCES SO YEAH
IMPERATOR IX IS SUMPERIOR
TO ANYONE AND IMPERATOR IS A THREAT TO EVERYONE AND SONIC THE HEDGEHOG
AND SCOORGE THE HEDGEHOG IS A TRUE VILLAIN OF SONIC PRIME
LIKE EGGMAN AND EGGMAN
IS NOT THE TRUE VILLAIN
OF SONIC PRIME AND LIKE I SAID EGGMAN IS NOT
SUPERIOR SO BELIEVE I
KNOW EGGMAN IS NOT
SUPERIOR AFTER FAILING
TO DESTROY SONIC AND
I KNOW IMPERATOR IC IS
SUPERIOR AND WILL RETURN
TO ERAISE AND SONIC AND
HIS FRIENDS IN THE NEW
SONIC GAME SO YEAH BELIEVE ME IMPERATOR IX
IS SUPERIOR TO ANYONE
AND DR EGGMAN AM I RIGHT
I won't necessarily call Sonic & Knuckles alone the "REAL" Sonic 4. It was more of an expansion pack to Sonic 3 alone.
It's arguably the closest thing to a real Sonic 4 but it's not actually called Sonic 4. Sonic Heroes isn't Adventure 3 despite releasing after SA2 and continuing the story.
= exactly what the definition of a sequel is according to this video
Its really just the second half of the game though.
@@1234_Flux or is it?
Sonic 3 and Knuckles was all Sonic the Hedgehog 3 just split into two games.
Launch Base Zone was pretty much just the end of Disk 1.
Triple trouble 16 bit. No questions asked. End of discussion.
Hot take but I'm not a fan when new media makes itself a retroactive sequel to something from years ago, even when other entries have come out since. I do think that Knuckles Chaotix (JP version anyway) could be the true Sonic 4 even though Sonic is barely in it. Out of all the games that came out between S3&K and SA1 (including 3D Blast, Triple Trouble, R) Knuckles Chaotix was the only one that felt like it built on the story of 3&K with the Japanese manual mentioning how a new island has risen from the ocean, either from the Master Emerald or Death Egg crashing into Angel Island, I can't remember which
When this man said,“anyone else notice that there was two Green Hill Zones in Sonic Games in 2017, it’s not that big of a deal but it’s weird that it happened twice?”, I said out loud,”Ha! No!”. Also, I have three contenders for Sonic 4, besides Sonic 4, I have Sonic 3, Sonic and Knuckles, and Sonic Superstars. Sonic 3 because of Sonic CD, Sonic and Knuckles because of Sonic 3, and Sonic Superstars because it has original stages and a new character and it doesn’t have a sequel with the same name.
sonic 4 episode 1 and 2 IS the real sonic 4, simply because SEGA made it, thus its cannon technically. Its just not he sonic 4 we deserved or wanted. What the title of this video should be is what SHOULD of been called sonic 4?
21:14 damn... it's really hilarious that i didn't experienced any of these i barely countered these issue maybe i was lucky
I genuinely prefer the idea that Superstars takes place between 3 and Mania, just because the opening cutscene in Mania has Sonic and Tails flying over to Angel Island like in Sonic 3, which would be kinda weird if they JUST finished up beating robotnik there
Was it confirmed that Sonic Mania is RIGHT after 3? Since Fang and his gang are known enough to be wanted and impersonated by the time of Mania, Triple Trouble and The Fighters have probably both happened by then, and have definitely happened by Seasons of Chaos. Sonic & Tails also do Generations after Sonic 3, but since no time passes it doesn’t matter.
Anyway Sonic Superstars is canonically after Sonic Mania since the IDW Fang mini series takes place between the two.
The Real sonic 4 was all the games mentioned in the video.
Bro just casually forgot about Sonic Pocket Adventure smh
Well pocket Adventure is just a worst sonic 2
Actually Sonic-16 made by two of one of former Sega Technical Institute might be real Sonic 4.
We all know that the real sonic 4 is Sonic X for the leapster
my stomach churned at the way you pronounced "hydrocity", fucking excellent
1:01 DUDE I WAS HEARING THIS WITH HEADPHONES SO WHEN I HEARD THAT I SHIT MYSELF CAUSE I THOUGHT SOMEONE WAS KNOCKING ON MY WINDOW HOLY SHIT
Love that diss towards Sonic Blast.
Fools, the real Sonic 4 is not even a Sonic game, it's Freedom Planet
Real Sonic 4 is Sonic Mania
Its is Sonic Superstars is Sonic 5😱😱😱
I don’t think S&K should be on the list, as it’s literally part of Sonic 3, Sonic 4 should be it’s fully own game, in chronological order, Sonic Mania is, but I think Sonic Superstars is, because it has original zones like Sonic 1, CD, 2, 3 and K
Sonic CD is also original zones… why doesn’t it count?
@@LittleLexi24 Sonic CD is confirmed to be the 2nd game chronologically, in the canon of the games, so I wouldn’t consider it
I wonder where CD went. Edit: Oh its technically sonic 2 bc it takes place before tails is met
If sonic mania was all original zones it would be Sonic 4
The real Sonic 4 is....
SONIC CD
Sonic CD is either 2 or 3, Sonic 3 is 4.
The real sonic 4 IS sonic 4 no arguing
17:51 "Hiy-dr-o-kity" ??? i thought it was only between "Hydro-city" and "Hy-dros-ity"
The true sonic 4 is the one with the word sonic
The 5th one is always the hardest.
Sonic and Knuckles is Sonic 4, Sonic CD is Sonic 5, Sonic Mania is Sonic 6, and Sonic Superstars is Sonic 7. If you disagree then cope.
If they didn’t reuse levels for mania it would easily be sonic 4
i dont wanna be that "uhm actually" person but triple trouble is not sonic 4, it is a sequel to chaos, its called sonic and tails 2 in japan while chaos is called sonic and tails
I was the one who got Sonic 4 delayed (minecart build). Funnily enough the game was barely different in the end. But lets be honest it sucked from the first reveal (ios looking ass game).
Id like to think i helped push things to Mania in the future we were constany talking fangame quality back then. We hyped Stealth and others so hard Sega took notice.
Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the real sonic 4
Change my mind.
Edit: Sonic Advance 1 and 2 takes place before Adventure 1 and 3 is after Adventure 2, due to appearance of emerl in advance 3 after becoming evil shortly after sonic battle (gba smash clone) and sonic battle includes shadow.
Omg that little voice😂😂😂😂
I'd be lying if I said I didn't like sonic 4 so I wont say it.
but I did get the game for free and it's the first sonic game I ever played and the first game I ever got 100% on.
17:50
Hidrokite 💀
Simple answer: There is no Sonic 4
Mania is 4, Superstars is 5
i always thought sonic cd was sonic 4
Going by release order Sonic CD is number 3, going by timeline order Sonic CD is number 2. Sonic the Hedgehog 3 is number 4.
Sonic Advance 1.
OK but what about generations 0_0
In my opinion it should be mania or super stars
unfortunately sonic 4 is just sonic 4.
Ok this is such a cop out. Saying sonic & knuckles is the "true" sonic 4 is like saying Sonic 4 episode II is the "true" Sonic 5. So S&K should be disqualified from this.
8:39 please say you’re joking…
As much as I love Sonic Mania, it was never something that screamed "Sonic the Hedgehog 4" to me. Just a really fun celebration of the Classic Sonic games. Also, I've lost count about how many times I've seen a new 2D Sonic fangame and saw at least one "This the REAL Sonic 4!" comment.
Just like how a lot of games sincr Heroes have at least someone say "This is Sonic Adventure 3"
@@Amsel_616 P06 is basically sa3, once they add the story bits and bosses
@@wdg2384 There is no second timeline.
@@ChiefMedicPururuexactly.
@@ChiefMedicPururu The Classic Sonic from Generations and Forces is Sonic from a different universe, meaning there is another timeline
17:50 you're pronouncing hydrocity like hidrokyti
XPool, you score a 5/5 in Uniqueness in my book.
You may be the real Sonic 4.
Final Score: 20/20
@@SonicTheBlueFastBoi lol
Can’t wait for sonic 4 & knuckles plus dlc.
When is XPool & Knuckles plus (DLC)
Awwwww
17:48 Everyone is overlooking the pronunciation of Hydro-City Zone. 💀
the third secret bonus pronunciation of hydrocity
Deadass. I was like, "STOP THE FUCKING PRESSES." 😂😂
Hidro Kyti 💀
Honestly that's the only correct pronounciation
nahh that was the WORST pronunciation of hyrdocity that I have EVER heard in my entire life.
Why did he say.... "Hydrocity"... like that....
Why
To get people to comment
Technically Sonic 3 is Sonic 4 since Sonic CD released after Sonic 2 making it Sonic 3. If you count Sonic & Knuckles as a stand alone game then Sonic Mania would technically be Sonic 6 but if you count Sonic 4 then Sonic Superstars would be Sonic 9 but that’s only if you count Sonic 4 episode 2 as Sonic 7.
Cd happens before 2 chronologically so sonic 2 is sonic 3
Big brain moment.
And counting sonic advance and rush would boost you to 14 but then again there handheld games.
Canontheory I agree with you
What if I count Sonic Mania Plus as a stand alone game?
I think the sonic advanced series actually evolved the classic gameplay more than the other 2D sonic sequels. It added new playable characters, and new abilities like tricks and team moves. Also the boost mode is very cool and builds on the idea of having speed being a reward for skilled players.
10:21
Tbf, I believe this game came out at a time when Modern & Classic Sonic were still treated the same. Like you get a Classic Sonic collection, but it has the modern characters on the box art same.
2:41 I'm not sure if this is a translation thing, but I believe the intended story was that the three are working independently, Fang for profit, Eggman to power the final weapon, Knuckles because he believes Sonic is bad at protecting the emeralds (which makes sense considering the plot starts with Eggman collecting them in secret and losing them in an experiment). That also explains why the three don't work as a team, Knuckles being captured by Eggman and so on
The superstars comic with fang implies that eggman and fang worked together multiple times in the past, which would be sonic the fighters and triple trouble, eggman clearly knows fang well enough to recall all of his past aliases
Calling sonic and knuckles the ‘real’ sonic 4 feels wrong to me. It’s like calling persona 2 eternal punishment the ‘real’ persona 3.
It’s like calling MGSV The Phantom Pain the REAL Solid 6
It's like calling Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode II the real Sonic the Hedgehog 5
Sonic & Knuckles is for all intents and purposes Sonic the Hedgehog 3 Episode II
1:02 That sound is way too realistic, I really thought someone was knocking hard at my door 😖
SAME
6:34 I always interpreted it (before Sonic Generations anyway) that the flashbacks were the events of the classic games just in a different artstyle/different designs
Isn't that still the case? What happens in Generations that would contradict that?
@@HOTD108_ In generations, we get to know that the old design was actually an younger Sonic
Imagine getting a Sonic Superstars ad during the Sonic Superstars segment.... couldn't be me 😊
1- Sonic and Knuckles really is just Sonic 3 Part 2. Might as well combine them both, as originally intended, and call it all Sonic 3
2- Sonic Mania is a celebration of the Genesis Sonic Games. There are some new zones yes, but also a bunch of old zones, so... maybe call it Sonic 3.5?
3- Sonic Origins is.... just a rerelease of the original games. It's more of a Definitive Edition. It's Sonic Mega Collection v.2
so Sonic Triple Trouble is 4?
How could you spoil superstars for me by showing the hud
Fang's theme actually uses a melody from his original theme
In my opinion, Sonic Mania is the Sonic 4 that was officially published, and Triple Trouble 16 bit is the the unofficial Sonic 4. And Superstars is Sonic 5.
Came here to comment this. Sonic 1 - 3&K, Triple Trouble 16-Bit, followed by Mania is how I'll play through the series from now on.
@@putridscene we basically have 2 real Sonic 4s that aren’t Episodes 1 and 2. We even have Sonic 5.
This! 💙💛❤💖
Oh, so sonic mania is a sequel to sonic 3 when most of the levels aren’t even new just a birthday game including modern sonic with forces….right.
Nah, Mania is more of an anniversary title, celebrating what made the past cool, hence the rehashes.
Superstars is THE Sonic 4🤑
Well a lot of Crash Bandicoot fans argue over the REAL Crash 4 lol.
That seemed like a technical win for Sonic and Knuckles, felt like we were playing with semantics here. Sonic and Knuckles was clearly intended to be part of the base game of Sonic 3 and came out as an extension doubled down as a stand alone game. The stand alone aspect of the game was a bonus, but lets not forget that it was first and foremost an extension. Its existence as a separate entity repose entirely on technicalities, either be like a lack of development time to release everything at once, or a lack of capacity to hold everything under the same cartridge, or both.
To give a weird analogy of what an extension is, for what its worth. It would be like calling Diablo 2 : Lord of Destruction, Diablo 3, which don't really makes sense to me.
I didn't dislike the video, but I disagree strongly with the conclusion made. The analyses in the video were good, and by that card I will play with my own semantics to argue Sonic Mania back as the real Sonic 4, lol. Just my opinion, though..
The real sonic 4 was the friends we made along the way
Stolen lol
@@not_kjb i made this comment when I first clicked this video.🤓
@@Frogowning no 🤓
@@not_kjb how are you gonna tell me what I did, imbred 🤓
17:49 "hydrokidy"💀
13:29 “Double Doofenshmirtz! Coming at you Fridays!”
YESSSS!!!!!!
I think superstars is the closest we’re getting to sonic 4
I consider it sonic 5
I always considered sonic advance to be the real sonic 4. However it truly doesn’t matter. I also believe sonic 06 is SA3 but it doesn’t make that game any better. The title of a videogame has nothing to do with quality.
SA1 is the best Sonic 4 in my opinion as it’s a proper evolution to the Sonic series, it continues to focus on the gameplay and characters but harder, and it doesn’t reuse too many elements from previous Sonic games.
Advance & Superstars barely has a story.
Mania is more of a celebration of those games than a true sequel.
And Sonic 4.
The best kind of Sonic 4 needs to build upon what the previous three games did.
3&K had a bit more focus on story and characters, so I think the true Sonic 4 should try harder on the story. While also keeping the spirit of the trilogy’s gameplay.
Sonic 3 is Sonic 4 because of CD but y’all ain’t ready for that conversation
"And now for my hot take on Resident Evil 4 and Street Fighter III.
Sonic CD is sonic 1.5
@@Mario14-k I would say 2.5 because Sonic CD was released after Sonic 2. Although I prefer for Sonic CD to be a standalone.
Sonic superstars is probably sonic 4. Sonic mania is basically just sonic levels with a few new ones. Sonic superstars is basically reusing the levels from before but that’s kinda what they did. Angel island, emerald hill, green hill and palm tree panic are all very similarly styled with a few new ideas. Casino night, carnival night and one of the bonuses stages are also quite similar.
But technically, sonic 3 & knuckles is sonic 4.
Sonic 1 (1991, canonically 1st)
Sonic 2 (1992, canonically 3rd)
Sonic CD (1993, canonically 2nd)
This video got me to ask myself... why was there Sonic Utopia footage on screen?
The real sonic 4 is the superstars we made along the way.
Also hey I’m canon.
Heavily given Scott the Woz vibes with your jokes 🤣
The real Sonic 4 is Sonic 4, it's in the title🤓. Knuckles' Chaotix is Knuckles' Chaotix, Blast is Blast, 3D Blast is 3D Blast, Mania is Mania, Superstars is Superstars, it really doesn't matter, it's all just a subtitle. So yeah, from my POV Sonic 4 is the true Sonic 4 because it's Sonic 4, it really doesn't get any deeper than that to me.
Not to undermine your own point, this is just my mindset in general, I don't understand legacies and fuss created over subtitles in such big franchises, I think it's pointless.
As a sidenote, I'd like to point out that the chronology in Mania is anything but a 5/5. Let's water it down to Mania having 3 storylines taking place, Mania Mode, Encore Mode and Mania Adventures. Mania connects directly to Forces wirh the time travel that sends Classic Sonic to the war against the Eggman Empire and Infinite in the future at the end and of course the Phantom Ruby. At the end of Forces Classic Sonic waves Tails goodbye and gets sent back and that's the EXACT frame Mania Adventures picks up from, that show starts as soon as the portal closes, Sonic still being on his waving pose. The Phantom Ruby is gone for good as far as the cast's concerned (it reappears in the Sonic Channel Calendar Stories coming out this year but it's irrelevant for now), most especially Classic Sonic. Show focuses on telling a small semi-isolated epilogue to the main game and does a splendid job with it, last episode is set in Christmas eve with Eggman defeated and Metal Sonic kinda trashed... THEN WHERE THE HELL DOES ENCORE MODE FIT?!?! Saying Mania Adventures isn't canon and Encore Mode is right after Forces is both factually false and a bummer since Mania Adventures slaps and is better than Encore Mode as a product/project overall. So in its first second Encore Mode creates issues by showing a Phantom Ruby portal. Sure, let's shrug it off as a random encounter Sonic ran into and got sent to the recent past off-screen, what, does he just repeat the entire adventure practically one-to-one but with Mighry and Ray in the mix and not just Knuckles and Tails? Did the main game basically not happen at all and Encore Mode replaces it? Not to mention Giga Sonic is basically a copy paste of Knuckles' Chaotix Metal Sonic Kai (which is still canon lemme remind ya), which devalues that older title at best and derails its placement into the overall timeline for no reason at worse. I think it's all a big muddy mess, saying it's a 5/5 in terms of continuity is disingenuous in my opinion.
In the most serious sense I genuinely give it to the “Episode” games for their boldness to put “Sonic 4” in the title.
In a personal sense I give it to Sonic & Knuckles. S3K was available as a lock-in addition, so despite intent it’s 2 entries in the series.
SK being Sonic 4 makes sense on paper, but it just ain't...
Sonic 3K is the result of fucking McDonalds Sonic toys, being a guinee pig for the lock-on tech
There was even a plan for 3K in a single cart, but dropped bc, well, they sold ONE game for the price of TWO😂😂😂
Sonic & Knuckles is Sonic 3 episode 2
Hey if you wanna Play and enjoy sonic for part one and part two by all means go ahead and this is coming from a guy who enjoys playing sonic 06
I NEED TO SAY THIS:
sand sanctuary is sky sanctuary X sandopolis act 1,
lagoon city is sky sanctuary X hydrocity
and pinball carnaval is carnaval night with more pinball elements
and it is my opinion.
Sonic & Knuckles shouldn't have even been scored because it's literally part of Sonic 3 and has always been marketed as such.
17:50 No way bro said Hidro Kity
13:32 I just want to let you know that I got the reference.
“Wow. If I had a nickel for every time I got doomed by a puppet, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice.”
I can't believe you skipped Sonic CD!!
,(you even mentioned it while talking about Mania and Superstars...)
Sonic Origins even includes CD! "all four original games"
...Sonic CD is Sonic 4, that's my opinion anyway
for sonic mania you can technically count the reused zones as originals, specifically the act 2s on every zone
they changed them and added new mechanics so it technically feels like a brand new zone
If you think finding a Sonic 4 is hard, how about finding a Sonic Adventure 3?
Sonic 06 is Adventure 3
@@coooooooooooooooornJust like Heroes, Shadow, and Unleashed!
@@gangstasonic97573Heroes, Shadow, and Unleashed have very different gameplay styles to the Adventure games. Whereas, Sonic 06 is literally just another Adventure game in everything except name. 06 even has hubworlds and the interconnected character plots where levels feature crossover points between the seperate character stories. I know Heroes has multiple character stories too, but they didn't crossover like what happens in all the Adventure games and 06.
That's because there isn't any
Sonic 4 is sonic advance!
Sonic 5 is sonic 4 episode 1 and 2
Sonic 6 is mania
Sonic 7 is superstars
What about Generations and Forces?
@@GnidelI don't count them
Then what are sonic advanced 2 and 3?
Sonic 4 came out July 21st this year except instead of Sonic it was Captain Olimar and the Picklemen
JustMaxT is now canon
Eh I’m more canon
"Sonic 4 killed my grandma"
Bro pulled a trolls character
I think you should'nt have called one of the qualifications "uniqueness" and "new levels" instead since you seem to be rather confused on its meaning.
For example, many of Mania's Act 2 has unique elements not found in the originals and goes completely unmentioned and unaccounted for including the new bosses.
Even tho it's a fangame.. i still think Sonic Triple Trouble 16 bits is the TRUE Sonic 4.
hydrowhat lol
What in the hell did he say???
17:50 screw it. this is now the official pronounciation.
Sonic 4 is Sonic 4 just accept it even if it’s bad
No
@@coooooooooooooooornWdym "No"?!?! The other ones are either too wacky and all over the place or too modern
@@Raymi20- :)))
No it is mania
23:32 "I don't care about the specifics in physics. in this specific instance, subjectivity does not exist! ...why is there sonic utopia footage on the screen?"
For me the real sonic 4 is Sonic 4 Episode 1 and 2. Even if they doesn't deserve their names. Even if it's after Sonic 3 or not, the real Sonic 4 for me is Sonic 4.
Yes, the thing everybody was paying attention to was “hidro caidee”. That’s it’s new name. Don’t dm me
Skip to 22:50 for your answer of the video.
The real Sonic 4 is the friends we made along the way
Ok, Gaming Overload.
They should remake the game that's titled "Sonic the Hedgehog 4" with the Sonic Superstars engine, all of its episodes combined into one game, remixed music, and 4 additional zones afterwards.
that's called a Redux, friend.
Superstars' engine is Unity, and I think you might know where I'm going...
I would prefer if they used the Retro Engine (the one that Sonic CD PC Port and Sonic Mania run on), or do a better job with the engine they *did* use (the Sonic Rush engine).
For me, Sonic Mania is Sonic 4.
Superstars is Sonic 5
The real sonic, 4 sonic adventure 1. It’s the game that continues the storyline 3 and 2 set up in the Japanese manuals.
Alternatively, it's Sonic Generations that injects itself before Adventure.
Canonically, it's actually Mania as it takes place after S3&K and well before Adventure, something that has been officially confirmed
@@gengargamer5657Wait, so the timeline is like:
SegaSonic the Hedgehog
Sonic the Hedgehog (1991)
Sonic the Hedgehog CD
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (1992)
Sonic 3 & Knuckles
Sonic Mania
Sonic Superstars
That's right?
@@Alternativity0 Yes, that it correct, though the first one isn’t canon to the series
@@gengargamer5657Oh, well other than that, that's correct. By the way, is Sonic Pocket Adventure canon? Because at the end of the game Eggman puts on his attire from Sonic Adventure.