Destiny: What Should Be Done About Light Levels? Where's My Auxiliary Progression?
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- Опубліковано 18 січ 2015
- The light level system in Destiny has been criticized for a while now. In today's video, I take a stab at the light level system, along with MUDflation and the lack of auxiliary progression in Destiny and why such a lack of progression might be making the game become stale.
What is MUDflation? MUDflation is the event that occurs when future additions to or continued operation of a game causes previously acquired resources to decline in value.
MUD stands for Multi-User Dungeon.
And yes, I wanted to at first name this video "Dude, Where's My Auxiliary Progression?" but the topic of light levels became the center of the video.
If you enjoyed the video, a positive rating is always appreciated.
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As someone somewhere shared, I think you shouldn't earn gear from raids, you should earn pieces or whatever that can be FORGED into gear, there should be like 5-8 options to forge a piece, now the gear would have the same stats it just would look however yo want (limited to 5-8 options) this way everyone would look a little more different and its not that hard to implement, just have to add a forge vendor in the tower.
That's the best idea ever.
I agree. There's a Lv. 6 helmet that looks WAYYYY cooler than my Lv. 28 helmet, but I can't use it because my Light will take a huge hit :(
You should be able to pick some of your stats, i hate the raid stats, there's no flexibility, for example, It would be nice to add auto rifle stats if you want to use your best auto rifle, and some one else could add grenade stats if they like using grenades.
DragonaxFilms Totally man, most of the green and blue helmets look way cooler than the raid ones
Chono Makona this game relies on RNG to even stay alive. It's poor game design if you can't produce content to keep your community playing the game other than pray to the RNGods that you get a piece of armor to even fucking progress. Its shitty design shitty non existent end game or rewards everything is by chance there's no incentive to keep playing this game because you do not get rewarded for the time you put in and don't even get me started on the story.
Light needs to be abolished in Destiny 2 altogether. Dunno why they just couldn't stick with a more traditional levelling system...
people like different stuff its original its new just my opinion
I agree with lights "non permanent" style of leveling. But thats it
Destiny is a one-of-a-kind, so they're needing to just test how things work. I assume that's why these 2 DLCs will be crap too, so they can test how DLCs effect the game and stuff
This is a traditional leveling system, at least it's the modern MMO leveling system. SWTOR (the one I'm most familiar with) had level caps of 50, 55, and now 60 through its initial release and two expansions. But then on top of that is gear. And gear at the top had about 4-5 "levels". Gear in that system is just stats, there's no inherent capabilities like weapons in Destiny, so you HAD to have those gear levels to do healing and damage, or for tanks, to stay alive with damage reduction and HP. So, while your gear level isn't exactly a stat being compared to like in Destiny, your gear level directly affects EVERYTHING about your character's power.
FFXIV actually has "item levels" so when you hit the level cap (50, I think), people talk about your ilevels which IIRC, went up to 90 (never got to level cap, so I'm not so familiar with it).
This, id like a way slower but permanent leveling system, also mix up the armor/weps looks and stats for gods sake, low level stuff looks way cooler than low level but theres no point in using it.
I've been complaining about radiant shards, the mythoclast, the suros, and pretty much everything else not dropping, but it just hit me that's why I keep coming back is to get more stuff.
One of my first times through CE I got the warlock raid helm and people all the time were like "woah awesome where did you get that? Or holy crap that's sweet how'd you get it?" It was awesome
Lately, I've been wanting to change the overall look of my guns. How cool would it be to have a red "Devil You Don't" with tiny little horns for the rear sights? I'm reminded of what Army of Two did with their second game, were they set up a website and players could go there and create custom masks. How awesome would that be to be able to do that with weapons in destiny? Or Destiny could implement a system where you obtain "raw armor material", and once you have X amount you can forge your own armor or even make modifications to existing armor. Obviously your unique armor wouldn't have a Grim Card, and you wouldn't be able to mod exotics, and they'd have to decide on a level of light that would be good for user-created armor (I'd put it at something just a little higher than what non-raid gear provides).
About gear, how about increase the sets of gears that can take you to the max level? Of course they need to make them different, and make the raid gears more powerful, my suggestion is if you equip 3 piece of the gear from the same set (leave a slot for a exotic) you get a set bonus effect, also the defense stat should be more important and the raid gears can just have even higher defense stay than other normal max level gears. In this way if you only need to be max level, you won't worry about the RNG too much, but for you hardcores, you have much more to do to collect all sets of gears (well and we need the vault expanded) to make you the best in every situation.
Another thing is we should move some perks (such as carry more ammo, different scopes, etc) out from gears and make them as "attachments" that you can put on your gears, then we can have attachments in a greater variety and make the gear customization more flexible, and we can make certain bosses drop some powerful/super useful attachments and give players more incentive to grind, in this way you don't have to hope the RNG drop a raid gear with the stat and ammo pack you need. (If I remember correct Datto got a helmet with stat he don't like so he is still waiting for the correct one to drop)
This is awesome! I'd love to see some of these ideas incorporated. Especially the simple idea of keeping track of motes of light.
Great points made, I was stuck on level 24 for a while because my drops were complete crap on gear.
Thank you for saying what we are all thinking! Hopefully someone is taking notes!
This is one of your BEST videos in a while mate!!!
Realy good vid man
Thanks for clearing up the damage specifics Datto. Also, the reason I hate light the most is that I can't use my favorite non-raid armor if I have to be lvl 32.
The saddest thing for me is how Vault of Glass, a really good raid, is ultimately now redundant because of the requirement to be Level 31/32
This especially being the case for the new hard mode of Crota's end. I would love to see Vault of Glass upgraded in terms of level difficulty and armour/gun stats to be on par with Crota's End. Add to that, Iron Banner being able to max you out and you've got much more potential to get gear, none of the ways are easy, but you could have a customised/personalised Guardian.
Very impressive analysis Datto.
I don't mind having a 'current highest' set of armor tied to the current raid. Just give me options to bring my favorite past raid set to one level below that, and make it easier then simply buying it from the vendor.
It should be as simple as taking my full 30 vog gear to the speaker and giving him a small amount of glimmer.... Then poof. 31 armor that I 'earned'.
Also instead of random chance. They should give you one piece of raid gear on completion. That way a full set = 5 completions.
You earned the level 30 gear. The speaker giving you level 31 for a bit of glimmer is not earning it. I don't know why people think that just because they earned a level 30 piece of gear that they should get a free power increase because they already earned it. You earned level 30. If you want higher, you have to earn that too.
And after those 5 completions and you having full gear, what's the point in doing it anymore?
If anyone thinks they earned anything in this game you need to fucking wake up this game is all about chance and RNG you earned nothing.
omegaxtrigun ok.... I posted a better system on the forums here: www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/93558060/0/0/1
(I included a picture and everything)
MegaRaaaar Just because it's chance doesn't mean there's no effort involved. You still have to put in the time and effort to get the drops.
omegaxtrigun the firts or second times yeah sure but after that it becomes almost trivial to do the raid (and I mean legit not cheesing)
the only time i have had someone ask the the much loved "where'd you get that" was after the second iron banner when i was using the IB ship i got, and you're definitely right Datto its a cool feeling to explain how and where you got it from or have someone explain where they got their cool stuff but it really doesn't happen enough in destiny right now, being able to modify weapons and armor in appearance would be great especially if there were mods you could only get through very specific short term content, it would bring a big awe factor to the game
I completely agree with you, Light levels just need to leave. In the back of my head when i'm playing i'm thinking, i will have to do this all over in House or wolves. the progression I am working on now will mean absolutely nothing in 2-3 months..
Totally agree with your thoughts on how people feel once hitting the level cap. I am addicted to Destiny, but once I reach the level cap on my main character, my desire to play it dies off dramatically. I go from spending 90% of my free time on it, to probably 50% or less.
And it's funny because before Destiny launched Bungie specifically said that their intention for gear was that if we were walking around the tower and someone seen our gear and was like "oh wow that is cool, where did you get that?!" but then the game launched, and that has never ever happened once, every single piece of gear I see, I know exactly what it is from. and how to get it.
Datto...I appreciate your channel much more because of this video. Thank You.
What to add to fix this light level issue:
Add a modified version of transmogrification; allow players to convert the looks of a piece of gear or weapon to another, higher power piece of gear, but also give players the ability to transfer perks and elemental damage of one gun to another, high power gun (can be applied to armor as well).
Force players to progress through the vault (or other very difficult activities as they are added) a certain amount of times (hard mode would count as more) before allowing them to gain level 31 gear instead of allowing them to get the armor from the beginning.
This video was fantastic. Truth in every word. Loved it.
I had an idea the other day about this. My biggest problem with the leveling system is that everybody looks the same and it's a grind for raid gear that is RNG. I have a helmet for my warlock that I LOVE but it's max light is 27. So what if upgrading of armor was all the same, but then there was an additional perk at the very end of the upgrade tree that allowed you to upgrade the light level on your gear by 1 until you hit the cap of 36. To do this you would need like 5-10 Motes of Light. Motes of light are almost pointless in Destiny (other than to buy exotic engrams form xur or class items from the speaker - as I said: pointless), so give them a greater purpose! Motes of light almost serve as a reward for leveling up as its based on xp you get from, well, everything in Destiny.
I still think that the PvP loot needs to either drop more/better stuff, or something like the medallions in IB that keeps the incentive to keep doing PvP. I'm a mostly PvP player, and it gwts annoying when NO ONE gets gear, or like 1 person does. Id like to see legendary engrams drop a bit more too, I've only gotten one of them, and it turned into energy -_-
mine turned into a 300 rocket launcher. I was like WTF and dismantled it. I'm too depressed to care about the extra 3 energy I could've gotten.
What about medallions which drop that cash in for marks? So that at least ... given time .. we could buy something?
True that as well, I also dont' like the 100 mark earning cap, that's kinda stupid to me
It'd be nice to have skill-based rewards as well. There have been far too many matches where I was top player overall, carry the team and all that, and the 2nd worst player on the other team gets the legendary primary engram. Easiest way to piss off a good player, don't reward them for working at their ability for that long.
^ I didn't want to be the one to bring that up. I'm mostly a PvP player, and this frustrates me to no end
Great video Datto.
I think some sort of more in-depth weapon/armour reforging is required as well. Give people the chance to actually make the random Legendary they got from a Nightfall or weekly actually worth their time rather than just an immediate dismantle.
So datto can you do a video on exotic class items? I would love to see one in some detail about each one but i know you are busy but its just an idea :)
I just wanted to mention that there is a way to see how many motes of light you've acquired. If you scroll over your light lvl (the yellow one on the right) in the pause menu, it shows the number under a light symbol.
I like a lot of ur idea. I'm lvl 32 right now and after I do nightfall, Crota End and Hard VOG, and Weekly for 3 character most of my friends are done for the week. A few including me play ROC strike playlist or PvP trying to upgrade weapons or get exotics we don't have yet or even getting a cool legendary gun with a cool stay roll but I see where change could happen making Destiny even better. I've never played a game this much since Mass Effect 3 but I've played Destiny way more and still love playing the game. I have a blast every time I play. I do get a tiny bit bored are certain points but for the most part I still have a blast. I'd like to see changes making Destiny amazing. I always see a lot hate on Destiny which I understand a little bit but little changes could make it a lot better.
This also has a major effect on customisation as it limits the choices of what armour you can wear which currently means all level 32's pretty much look the same as you need specific armour to reach that level
Vanguard, Crucible, Factions, Eris, Iron Banner, all of them should offer a path to max level. For example, the Vanguard, could require, level 5, and 20 strange coins, for you to unlock an additional strike playlist. This playlist, would be level 30, and feature 3 random skull modifiers on each strike you load up. You would be required to complete 3 strikes without dying, to unlock the final challenge, a nightfall strike with all skull modifiers active. Once, all this was completed, level 32 gear would become available for purchase, with glimmer, maybe some special weapons too? There would be 6 ways to reach max level, assuming Iron Banner and the Queens Wrath weren't at the tower(they really should be persistent). 9 ways to reach max level, if Xur had a way to get 32 gear.
This breakdown is phenomenal. And that's all well and great....but what I want to know is "What's Bungie's explanation for the existing systems and structures? What is the game developer's reasoning and logic and explanation for any of this game?"
I'm not quite sure if you are referring to the story or not, but it was supposed to be some gigantic quest/story in which you would find out what the Traveler and the Destiny symbol meant/came from, utilizing friends and the "open world" (as in, each planet or at least continent-like area would be explorable) to do so. Unfortunately, Activision took 2/3rds of that away and you now have the game you have today.
***** Your response doesn't align much with my question....or really at all.
My questions refer to the systems and structures discussed in this video. The RNG loot system, the structure in the game for obtaining weapons and armor, the light level and defense ratings, the attack ratings. My previous comment indicates that I want BUNGIE (the game developer) to explain their reasoning for WHY they chose certain structures and systems in the game.
You can extend my question to structures outside of the topics this video dealt with like why they make you go to orbit after completing a mission, why the game isn't truly open world, and on and on.
Do you have any published article or reddit piece on this supposed event of Activision cutting 2/3rds of the game? What reason might they have for that.
elcamel1216 I told you I was not clear on what you were asking. No need to get upset at me for you asking an unclear question. Also your second question is way open to all sorts of interpretation, in which I replied with what I did. As a side, Bungie did not want Destiny to be a MMO game, and most of the game is still locked away on the $60 disk you payed for, waiting to be unlocked with "new" DLC; this is old news.
elcamel1216 Why don't you ask on the forum?
***** My apologies if my response came off as angry, it was not meant to cary that tone at all.
Bungie needs to drop the light leveling system, add a transmog system, add an in-game grimoire or codex, do damn near everything Datto said in the video, allow more weapon customization, fix the RNG system, add a more fleshed out narrative into the actual game instead of behind the grimoire cards, etc, etc, etc. But we all know this is never gonna happen until Destiny 2. And because of Activision.
Well thought out commentary. Thumbs up
This is what I like to hear from. Good stuff Datto.
To be honest, I don't have the biggest issue with the light leveling system, except the fact that once I have full raid gear it might take me weeks just to acquire enough radiant shards or whatever to level them up.
What I agree with most is that Destiny, while fun, isn't exactly a "challenging" game. The VoG and Crota are especially difficult in many aspects, but I wish there were more targets to shoot for like speed runs, simple yet rewarding stats (specifically a good replacement for grimoire), etc;. As someone who doesn't actively play crucible I never have much to do once I've completed the few routine missions (nightfall, both raids, etc), so it would be awesome to add more gamemodes or tasks to modify gameplay.
For example, it would be cool to have a VoG run where everyone has plays as the computer's selected loadout. One run might have each player use a striker titan (note that the player doesn't need to own the actual class) with level 26 gear, and three random weapons, and there could a harder gorgons maze or a harder parkour area before the vault.
Another time you might have a mission where you must traverse the abyss in Crota's End within certain time limits using only grenades, melee, you name it.
Though these are just ideas, they are examples of amazing (yet simple) additions that would make Destiny my full time game.
Destiny, Bungie, I love you so much!
Titles! That's brilliant
I would really love for Destiny to include a vanity slot once you hit the Light levels. It would solve the issue of everyone looking the same and it would give some use to items that are otherwise obsolete. Yes, old raid gear would still be useless stat wise, but it would be nice for those that spent the time and energy to get a full Vault raid set to be allowed to wear it if they prefer the aesthetics. It's something I hope Bungie seriously considers the next time they release a UI update.
Just got to 32 because of IB. However I agree with all of your points about level being tied to gear. Like you, I also enjoy using Hand cannons. If I want to switch to gloves that have "Faster reload speed with Hand Cannons" I will drop down to level 31 and become 33% less effective. This should not be the case and Bungie needs to adapt to that. If I wanted to do a special build of my gear, I should be penalized by my DEF number, not my potential damage output.
A suggestion to correct this problem would be to have Quests to unlock levels. For example, After level 20, you would talk to your Vanguard mentor and they would have you do a quests similar to an exotic bounty to increase your level cap. They could do this by increments of 2. You could have these quests tied into the raid, and have alternate routes for crucible. You could also have special rewards that grant an entire levels worth of XP. The possibilities are endless, but it may have to wait for Destiny 2
Hey, I just bought the dark below and I didn't get the tumbler sparrow. I don't know what to do, and do I need to have the expansion pass? Please help.
Another thing about the gear stat, we should have a system that allows you to increase the stats (intellect, strength, discipline) or your armor by doing certain things, or make some item that can increase or change the stats on gears, and you can only get those items by defeating certain strike bosses. (Though we need to set limitation on the max stat you can have, and for some exotic armors you can't change from one stat to another)
Datto u make some great points I hope bungie will watch and use ideas from you.
Looks like old Datto is finally coming to the light of things and realizing this game is crap. Destiny is dying really fast. I highly doubt it will make it to the third year of their ten year plan. They've already done so much to ruin it and now they players know that Bungivision doesn't give two shits about us, only our wallets. I just can't believe how big of a let down this game was. I was hooked for about a month or so, and that's as long as it lasted. It's also sad to say. but the reset is going to happen again on the next DLC. People should get out while they still can. That game is a hamster wheel.
you realize that the ten year plan means there will be Destiny 2, 3 and maybe 4?
He never said it was crap, he just pointed out a flaw. And if it sucks then why are you on a channel called: Dattodoesdestiny?
He never said the game was crap, lol. He's just giving examples of how the game could improve even more.
Destiny is dying fast, yet it still has a rather large loyal following, right. Just becuase not every big youtuber posts it anymore doesn't mean plenty of people don't play it.
"That game is a hamster wheel."
So is just about any video game every created.
Ha! stfu dumb ass
I love when people say "they only care about your money!". No shit Sherlock. Businesses exist to make money, shocker!
I completely agree; something you didn't mention is that, for a lot of players, the Light system is confusing. I know a number of people who just do it, but don't understand why they should be 31 instead of 30 or 30 instead of 29. Especially when pre-DB Legendary weapons are still performing on par with DLC Legendary weapons (I'm looking at TDYK vs TDYD, or The Swarm versus nearly every other MG in the game), unless you have Crota on farm. Character level is overall too important of a stat in the game.
As for stuff to do, Bungie could do a few things, some of which people will hate and some will love. Like the following:
Make Strikes matter and make them more technically challenging, not just a gear check or damage sponge test. And Nightfalls (and possibly Heroics) should have alternative mechanics that are a bit more interesting than "attack X from an enemy = OHK". Burn is just a bad modifier.
Remove ALL Exotic weapons from the RNG system and tie ALL of them to Exotic Bounties, with not too wide of a difficulty curve (ie. - make them all roughly as difficult to complete as say the Thorn Bounty to maybe the Bad Juju or Invective Bounty; the SGA chain should be completely reworked.). Not only does this add more "things to do" to the game, but it will make getting those gear pieces more rewarding. The "best" weapons in the game shouldn't just be a random drop to a player, a drop that's not based on anything other than completion (ie. - we have all seen the screen shots of a Crucible Award screen with the lowest performing player getting a Ballerhorn or an AFKer in a Roc Strike getting a Legendary Engram). An alternate option is to have most Exos tied to Exo Bounties but have a few Exos tied to a farmable boss or event in the game, not a limited time Vendor.
Add in Custom Game Matching for Crucible. It seems simple enough, so its omission in Destiny is a bit baffling.
Have more diverse types of Public Events, remove the ability to purchase materials for Marks from the game and add in more interesting Vanguard Bounties/Patrol Missions to the mix. A big part of Destiny was the "shared world" aspect, and what makes it feel like an MMO. By having to repeat the same type of activities almost daily, the shared world concept of Destiny is meaningless because I just want to get in, get my Bounties done and move on. The addition of The Blades of Crota was very interesting and got a lot of people excited (unfortunately, by now the event has devolved into just another one of the things you do to farm rep). And what if there was gear, Shaders, Ships, Sparrows or Ghost Shells tied specifically to the completion of those events. Even if was just cosmetic. You could then introduce some of the "oooo...where'd you get that ship/helmet/shader" excitement, but it wouldn't feel like a "must do" because they're not tied to progression.
Ascendant material requirements for Legendaries needs to be adjusted and getting those materials needs to have a more direct route. It is insanely more difficult to fully upgrade a Legendary piece of gear than an Exotic; all you need to do is run 1 Weekly Heroic (or 2 if you need to do it at a lower difficulty) and then wait for Friday and you're primary material is done. And the source for it is a guarantee; Xur's going to be there and he's going to have the material, no question. But the fastest way to gather mats for Legendaries is to run the Daily Story and VoG every week, but even then you're not guaranteed that you will get the mat you need. Acendant materials are the only mats tied to RNG, which is just bad. Nothing more frustrating than needing just a few more Shards but RNG only gives you Energy. So either a more accurate point for farming Ascendants needs to be put into place that is not RNG based or the amount of Ascendants needs to be cut by about half, the former being the better option. Something like every Strike has a new difficulty level - Ascendant - that is as difficult as a Roc Strike and each Final Boss can drop one type of Ascendant material, say 0 to 3; Valus would only drop Shards, Sekrion only Energy.
Ty so much Datto for saying all that I agree 100 percent. I always felt it to be pretty wierd that bungie took the time to design all these types of armor just to make them moot because on 1 set gives you max level this making your damage relevant in everything but Crucible (not including banner)
My solution to light levels is this. Any armor can go to max light, but you need to put motes of light, or at least light infusions obtained with multiple motes, into said armor to bump it to the next light tier. It doesn't buff stats other than light level. It would be a difficult process to take lower level gear to the level of raid gear, but it would also be a nice alternative for those who really liked the previous raid gear, or say, a particular piece of rare/legendary armor with a high stat role. The complaint of everyone looking the same would be gone. You can look however you wish, AND be as effective, if you work for it. Hell, you could take the starting composite gear to max light level if you wanted to sink so much time and resources into doing so. That's one possible solution, what's your take on it?
Only if Destiny could hear Datto's inspiring words and begin the intervention to make it self a better game for all to play. It seems as all these ideas fall upon deaf ears
They are making it a better game. It just doesn't happen overnight.
omegaxtrigun no they had 7 years and still royally fucked it up.
It's mostly Activision
Mostly activision. Spare me the bullshit. Activision cut he dlc bungie developed the game and its bugs and the way things work open your fucking eyes.
MegaRaaaar Destiny would be in a better spot but Activision made Bungie rush their game with small deadlines
Good points
I think they need to add a weekly raid challenge, which is just the most recently released raid (at the moment Crota's end hard mode) with one or more given modifiers (light switch, juggler, burns etc.) and it could give some sort of exclusive rewards, like different looking pieces of armor that still give 36 light or something like that
Well said
Great video! I agree with your points! And I think destiny should have more side challenges especially for us 32's
Brilliant Video.
I personally love the loot system in Borderlands and although it is clearly a very different game to destiny, I would like to see something like that
Well put!!!! dam i wish i had a pvp level
There is a good example out there, Final Fantasy XIV; the original release was a mess, so bad in fact that they took the game off for almost a couple years and then re-launched the whole game. Their main issues were having no one from FFXI team to help (the other FF MMO) or anyone with MMO experience. Yes, I know that Destiny is not an MMO per se, nor is it a grind game like Diablo either, but it borrows way to many elements from both genres to not have the auxiliary systems. I understand that there people in Bungie that are/were WOW players, but there is a huge difference between playing and developing. In the case of FFXIV, they had to bring on-board people with MMO experience, and the new director actually made everyone on the team to play WOW so they could "get it". I think some people at Bungie dont "get it". There are desing choices that probably make sense coming from an unique FPS background, but are crashing and burning here - for example the stuff Datto and Byf talk about, the general outcry for stuff like trading among other things. The fighting system is awesome... but it won't help the game in the long run.
gr8 vid dude
Have to agree with these ideas
My biggest issue with Destiny at this moment within the game's progression is that there's zero benefit for doing story quests on harder difficulties outside of doing them for the occasional bounty here and there. For example, when you put on the heroic modifiers onto a story quest when you're level 6, you actually get an experience bonus for completing that story mission on that harder difficulty. I liked that, it made me think on what difficulty I wanted to do things on and whether I want the additional exp or not.
After level 20 this is nonexistent. What I'd like to see is perhaps bring back the additional exp system permanently to doing these heroic modified missions. A certain exp bonus based on the level of the mission and, hell, you can even add in additional modifiers such as Lightswitch or Angry for certain missions to keep them interesting. Or perhaps if the addition of permanent exp bonuses was impossible make it so each mission at the heroic modifier we do them on has a chance to net us a cryptarch engram (which can be rare or legendary). It just seems like they made the story mode for things only for leveling up a new character quicker and the occasional bounty. I'd like to see the story being used more, give people incentives to use the story quests for certain things.
They should make it in Destiny 2 that whatever level the character you bring over is,it converts to a normal level were to progress you do challenges (Bounties) and missions to further improve you're stats like agility and such,but you're armor is an entirely separate stat.
I think it would be cool if there was more than one set of level 32 armor, bit it wouldn't be accessible until you hit level 32 with the raid set. Bungie still has the longevity of requiring players to grind the raid gear to hit the max level, but hardcore players who want more to do can spend a ton more time chasing the perfect bonuses on that perfect set of armor that they want. Maybe you love an exotic chest that has heavy ammo, but the raid boots already have that. Once you hit the max level through the raid, you have a chance of getting 36 light capable legendary boots with a different bonus, so that a portion of your armor isn't redundant.
I think a major problem with raid gear (outside of the levels) is that the perks are raid specific. I believe it would have been much more useful if raid armor perks with more useful in all activities e.g. raid XYZ gloves have two nodes to switch between, one gives your primary weapon an elemental buff, the other increases the clip size etc.
Destiny has backed itself into a corner on light levels. I think light levels and xp levels should operate independently so a player can be lvl32 and their light level be a different stat that grows based on completing certain activities.
Changes I could get behind that doesn't involve grinding reputation for commendations.
Totally agree!!
Completely agree man.....it's a black and white difference in damage between light level 31.8 and 32.0. The light level system didn't stay consistent either....before the DLC the max light level (for raid and exotic armor) was Light level 30...and rank 30 was the highest you could get. With Crota's End, they made raid and exotic armor light level 36, but you can only get to rank 32. What's up with that? Why not just make the armor light level 32? just doesn't make sense, unless it is there for a future function. I guess we'll see.
If Bungie wants people to play their game a little longer (enough breathing room to fix these light and level issues) they just need to add in small things to make the game more fun. Add something like decals for guns, get so much of these planetary materials, this many motes, and say a special item from the Cryptarch and you can add a certain decal to your gun. You can make interesting combos and almost no one's guns would look the same! That would keep people satisfied because its small and insignificant in the big picture but makes your guardian stand out a little more, that's what people like.
Thank you so much for saying all of this.
I've been railing against the light level system since launch, but it felt like I was just shouting into an empty room.
This entire system has been and will continue to be broken unless they make a significant change.
100% agree i hope this makes it to some Devs..
One of your mates there landed a Last word, sword breaker and helmet all in one Crota loot drop. DAMN
Also, great video, as always, DattoDoesDestiny
If there's going to be light levels, we should have a set progression system. JUST MAKE 1 VOG COMPLETION REQUIRED TO UNLOCK LEVEL 31 VENDOR GEAR. Problem solved!
>hit level 20
>find rare gear with light and buys level 29 legendary gear
>vault of glass
>hit level 30 -> VoG hard
>DLC gear unlocked by doing VoG
>dlc gear and able to buy level 31 vendor gear now
>Crota's End
>level 32 and Crota Hard mode
This the first time I've ever heard the term "transmog" but it is exactly what Destiny needs! What more do I hate than grinding for identical stat, grinding for an identical ascetic
Transmod would be so cool... Agree 100% with what was said... Datto think you'll do a Pvp/Pve for exotic armour for specific classes?? Eg hunter exotics Aclyophage S class etc..?
A system that kind of differs from the other call of duties in advanced warfare, is that you can have different versions of the same gun and some look very different from others and that adds some variety into the game, which is really cool. I feel as though that same idea should've or should be incorporated into Destiny, same with armor.
The fact that Bungie keeps changing the Light Level cap is really annoying. Once every new DLC hits, you'll have to grind out crucible marks, vanguard marks and raids to get the best gear. Rather than making people do that, Bungie should just increase the Light Level for our armor we already have. Well idk, that's what I think. Keep up the videos Datto :)
Then there would be no sense of power increase. You'd just have different armor.
If Destiny is a 10-year plan, then I'd imagine Bungie wanted you to partially role-play, and see your character develop and grow in power. (Not that the characters actually matter...)
I think that weapons and armor should be able to be upgraded or rerolled using motes of light, like in the Iron Banner. This could allow pre-dlc weapons and armor to be made on par with current weapons and armor. Motes of light are obtained through getting experience or engrams, so the more you play, the more you get. VOG armor would go up to 36 light so some players can differentiate their looks without losing 2 key levels.
I agree with the half light level damage model suggestion.
I feel like there's an easy solution to the whole "Raid Armor Becoming Irrelevant" issue. In new content, absolutely I agree with the Vendors selling gear that can get non-raid geared players on par. Key - ON PAR. The vendors selling lvl 31 Light gear when the highest you could get in VoG was 30, was kind of a kick in the nuts. But, they should then make previous raid gear dismantle into ascendant materials for the new raid gear. I.E. - Your VoG gear would still have become worthless, but you could dismantle it for shards to upgrade Crotas End raid gear. Then, running the Vault would get the hardcore players maxed out earlier - If even only a week or two, it would still feel worth it.
👏 I like to hear stuff like this, it will make destiny a better game. Thanks for speaking up
I agree, i have been level 31 1/2 forever, i constantly do the raids and I havent gotten a new piece of raid gear since the raid came out, cmon don't you think you could be guarenteed a piece of armor from crota?
Hey Datto, another great analytically commentary.
I completely agree with your view, however I feel it is a pointless argument. If Bungie can’t even take the time to fix the heavy ammo bug or at the very least remove that perk from the armor until they can fix the bug, they sure as hell aren't going to review the RNG loot system or the Light Level progression . . . at the very very least they could provide the community with some feedback on where they are at with fixing this bug, not the throw away line from Deej about this being a known bug.
Unfortunately we either have to suck it up or start playing another game . . . lots of my friends stopped playing Destiny after the last DLC, in their eyes essentially all of their gear became worthless and they couldn't face starting all over again. If this happens with the next DLC it will be the end for me, I can’t go through the grind three times.
Keep up the great work.
Completely agree i dont like looking like another hunter before the beta and alpha i had seen the Crest of Alpha Lupi and Young Ahamkaras Spine i wanted to have those and some cool legs and helmet but we cant equiped 2 exotic armor sets at the same time now it would be cool for say if you have 2 pieces of exotic that upgrades go well together and your subclass youd be able to deal maybe 5% more damage and take 5% less damage
Nice video. Agreed with mostly all of it.
i think you should be able to add modifyers to story missions and try to complete it within a time frame for rewards
I would agree with you Datto. I think with witching from leveling system through gear to a leveling system through Motes of Lights or something to that affect, due to even once your level 20 you now start to game a Mote of Light when you "level up". Would work and help change the RNG for the game. To me it will ease a lot of pressure off having to have Legendries, for the soul purpose of it increases my Light Level. And put it more to you want the Legendries because of their stats.
So when are you going to put out a video on how to cheese hard Crota?
Were there meant to be weapon shaders in the DLC?
I personally believe all the vendors should sell 32 light gear, BUT the RAID gear should only be needed to make the raid easier. It gives you extra bonus' to your character. For example, maybe the raid boot reduce your weight of Darkness cap to x5 instead of x10 but like Datto said in a previous video you have to EANR pieces of raid gear to create raid gear. So we can all be happy with the armor we're wearing without looking EXACTLY the same. They also should make the faction armor a lot more different and increase the number of armor you can buy at vendors to give more options. My stats are all well and good, but I still want to look badass.
I agree a lot with this video. Where are some challenges and stuff to go for. It's gone once you get gear. I got excited in Destiny during the last horn banner because it was the first time I decided I would work for that stuff and had a blast but once I hit lvl 5 I was done for the week. The grind has gotten so pointless to me I haven't even maxed out any of my new 32 exotics
My biggest issue is that when you have 1.5 hours per night, it's pretty damn hard to join these raids - and therefore get the great armor and guns. Even when you are in a great and active clan like I am it nearly makes it impossible to join in because of limited playtime.
I would love titles based on modifiers to the Nightfall/Raid. I think that the concept of the Nightfall should be expanded. They could have a baseline Nightfall, much like it is now. You could gain Titles for your character, and gear if you completed even more difficult Nightfall strikes, or did them in a speed run, or survival mode... Whatever else you could turn on and off by choice, much like the very suggested Skull modifications. Say you could turn off the boost from the Burn from your weapons, while leaving the burn from the enemy. Maybe a specific reward for being able to Solo a Nightfall. Again it wouldn't have to come with any actual benefit other than Here is my Thing, my Things a different color/has a special name, your thing can do the same job, but maybe yours was earned a different way.
The mudflation that happened when the expansion totally turned me off of Destiny. All the hours of leveling up the raid gear was thrown in the trash, and I was left with the only option of replacing the raid gear with stupid ugly vendor gear. I'd had enough grinding, and I was sick of it. I totally agree that the light system needs to be fixed, but honestly, all of this should have been worked through in the development process, not after release making guinea pigs out of your customer base.
Sorry but that's how raid tiers work. It happens in other games too.
They're not making guinea pigs out of anyone. They're new to making this type of game, and in house development only gets you so far. You can't figure out everything with no player feedback. You can only do what feels best and then try to incorporate what people want once they've seen it. Lots of games have done it.
It also sucks being able to do the raid once per week per one character making it harder to get raid gear
Good vid. I like your less scripted stuff. Very good points made here!
Thank you for pointing out things like transmog and the challenge modes from WoW. I'm a very big gamer of Destiny and WoW but WoW just has so much more to do and not everyone has to look the same bc they are the highest level.
How good would it be to have rankings in crusible? I though I would experience the old halo days. But sadly a pvp arena without rankings gets booring very quickly :/. Good video datto
Pretty good list Datto, I dont think newbies should be forced to progress through previous content to be able to reach max progression though. Reason being is Bungies plan of 3 month month content. If their progression was held back or they had bad RNG or only one character and had to progress through VoG before CE then they might miss half of the 3 month expansion by the time they were proper level for CE. Unless they increase the length of time between expansions I don't think it should be touched. Let the unique weapons and fun be the incentive like it currently is, people go in wanting Vex, Fatebringer, Timebreaker, VoC, a chance at an exotic off a chest, or just fun. There just isn't enough time with 3 month expansions to slow peoples progression anymore.
They could also make hard raid gear for CE that would help you start in house of wolves but still scaled to lvl 32
Solid video, it's always nice to hear fellow Guardians wonderfully word their feelings. Since I don't play Destiny as much as others, I wasn't getting that stagnant vibe as much, but after a few hefty play sessions, I'm feeling the aimless grind now...
Of course it may not mesh well with Bungie plans to milk this whole deal, but I say scrap the tid bit business and actually add some meat to the next few DLC's. Why increase "light" levels and gear by a few numbers when jumping 10 levels would be a lot more fun to approach.
Think you should be able to upgrade VoG Gear to new non-raid legendary light and armor level by using some of eris morns materials or something. Like the embalming orb or something like crux of crota.
Got up to Level 20 now...so I am starting on the slow grind of getting the gear.
from what I get from this is...get the gear from the vender and ignore everything else until you are ready to raid.
It would be interesting if they stuck with traditional leveling. Armour would give you the same stat variations of discipline, strength, and intellect but it would have no impact on what level you are. There would still be the same rarity and overall better gear than others, but it would make for some different loadouts.
You should also be able to gather pieces of upgrade material to forge to better your gear.
Good video datto, the bottom line seems to me to be that destiny needs more progression and more variety, give us a reputation level that can be boosted by for example 500 for doing the raid 250 for the nightfall or the weekly and etc etc, give us epic rewards for hitting certain milestones and use a levelling system that goes up to 200 rather than 32 to allow for more flexibility in the difficulty level of new activities...
Pretty sure there is a tracking for the levels gained after 20. However, it only appears to be on the iOS Destiny App. When I check my main on the App it shows my current Light Level of 32, but if you go into the detailed view it shows my Level as 80. Where as my two alts (both Light Level 31) show Levels of 25 and 10, which would be about right with the various play time on the different chars. And I have noticed the level for each character increase over the past few weeks, so I assume its tied to the "Motes of Light" level.
I have not seen any equivalent "Motes of Light" level in the web browser, or Android app, only on iOS.