Every time Roxy says CW's Flash ran for 9 seasons I still can't believe it. I still remember Grant Gustin guest starring on "Arrow" like it was yesterday. Where has the time gone????? Loch Henry and the episode about the werewolf with Zazie Beats were my fave Black Mirror eps this season.
Flash's failure can't be attributed to simply one thing. It really is a confluence of so many different things; a perfect storm really. They all play a factor on different levels, depending on who you are (ie. if you're plugged in to the nerd culture, or if you're just a casual filmgoer): - Ezra Miller's legal and personal troubles - DCEU movies (excluding Joker and The Batman) generally not having a good reputation for being entertaining movies - Piggybacking on the previous note, DC and WB in general making more news for their BEHIND-THE-SCENES drama, than the movies themselves (which collectively aren't good). - General Audiences having fatigue for RUN-OF-THE-MILL Superhero Stories. Can't say that for all superhero movies when Guardians 3 and Spider-Verse have made bank, and have gotten positive reviews. - James Gunn's intentions to reboot these movies anyway, so that makes audiences question why some of these are worth watching anyway, if it's not gonna matter. That's an unfortunate by-product of the "Shared Universe" storytelling model that Marvel (and DC to a lesser extent) has popularized. - Poor Marketing, although not for a lack of trying (and it's hard to promote a movie when your lead star is in legal trouble) - The Nostalgia Bait is blatant; putting Michael Keaton front-and-centre. And maybe it's up for debate, but Keaton's Batman was a good 30 years ago. Younger people may not be as inclined to see him as Batman, as they were either too young, or not even around for his 3-year stint in the role. Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield benefit from being more recent icons. Yeah, Tobey was 20 years ago, but 10 years could make a difference. - Too many other (better) movies coming out around the same time. - Multiverse stories being played out. Considering the most recent Best Picture Oscar Winner was about the multiverse, Spider-Verse being a few mere weeks ago, and to a lesser degree Marvel building something with their multiversal stories, audiences just might already be over the multiverse. Flash didn't indicate that it was going to do something incredible or different with its story. Despite it clearly being a loose adaptation of "Flashpoint", the movie to general audiences could've been seen as blatantly ripping off No Way Home's use of former superhero actors. Just unfortunate timing. - General word-of-mouth becoming more mixed closer to the release date. People like Tom Cruise and Stephen King singing the movies praises probably elicited more eyebrows than actual desire to see the movie. Nothing in the trailers indicated that THIS was THE movie Hollywood needed right now... And while you had your fair share of UA-camrs reviewers sing the movie's praises, none of them called it an absolute banger, or called it must-see. Add to that the reviews that skewed more negative, which lessened any positive outlooks. There's probably a bunch of stuff I'm missing, but these are what's coming to my mind right now. And fanboys/fangirls don't get pissed about the DCEU comments. I like some of the DCEU, but I'm not delusional enough to think that they're beloved by general public. Fact of the matter is, they're simply not. No one was flocking to the theatres to see "Justice League", the way they flocked to see "Infinity War" and "Endgame".
@@cmorris9494 There you go: another reason right there! If it's not your star, then it's the other traditional means of promotion like the talk-show circuit.
Agree totally, I also think non comic book fans have lost interest in the genre in a lot of cases. The fans won't keep these franchises alive on their own.
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As fun as Oppenheimer and Barbie will both likely be, I'm avoiding the crowds on opening day for those and instead watching Cobweb and The Beanie Bubble.
For someone is so knowledgeable on movies and also someone who I truly respect, Why are not covering the Ezra Miller and how his past in mainly the reason, doesn't matter good film or not. Seems like you are shying away from talking about all the horrible things Ezra Miller has done. But I mean he did say he was sorry.
What do you want him to do?? TALK ABOUT erza Miller for 2 hours and say all the things that have already been said a million times?? You know when Chris rock got SLAPPED at the Oscars, the next day when everyone was talking about the same thing, and everyone putting that slap in their thumbnail for 2 weeks, Kris came out the next day and said I ain't gonna be talking about that.....and he didn't!! Everyone else did, but he didn't.... And I agree Roxy, I actually liked elemental.....
@@joegreene7619 Can we talk about how good of an afterlife Gen Leslie Groves is having? He was the general in charge of the Manhattan Project. In two movies, he has been portrayed by Paul Newman and Matt Damon. If you have ever seen pictures of him, you would agree he is doing very well.
All of the top five highest grossing films of the year, have an audience score of 90 or above. To me, this shows us people are being more selective when it comes which films they see in the theater, vs the ones they watch at home on streaming. A lot of people are still struggling right now financially and simply can’t afford to see a bad movie.
Facts. I just spent like $40 to go see The Flash by myself and there’s no way that movie was worth all that. Maybe $5. My soda cost $8. Parking was $6. My ticket? $26. They think they can save Hollywood by making weak movies?
@@bamm86 $26 for a ticket? Wow! I thought $12.99 for a ticket was expensive where I live. And think if you had a pay for a family of 4, that’s $160 on one movie!!! It’s jet getting too expensive and seeing a film that can be good-mid, just isn’t enough anymore.
Dan Murell has a WB/DC Flashpoint what if scenario vid I found interesting. The casting to me was always great for the Justice League. I'm okay with Snyder's direction to start off the slate, but the main issue was always the WB/DC suits trying to keep up with the Jones's. Marvel was already 5 years into their verse build by 2013's MoS release, Nolan's DK Trilogy just finished in 2012. So instead of just being patient with MoS, into Batman, WW, MoS 2 etc, the WB/DC execs at that time (Kevin Tsjihara into Geoff Johns I think) were CONSTANTLY side eyeing Feige's MCU box office openings and never had the patience to take it's time to build each Justice League character slate. And it kept happening when Geoff Johns stepped down and Walter Hamada changes took place. *And I'm one of those that really dig BvS Ultimate Edition, but it's easy to see that film was WB/DC execs trying to fast track the Justice League for a quick buck, rolling out Batman tactic etc. *My only change would be not even doing Suicide Squad anything, focus on the main JL crew first then JL films, then expand from there into SS (or The SS), Shazam, Harley Quinn, Peacemaker etc. Then more changes to The Flash (which I really dug too) due to the new Gunn DCU plan, ugh. Whatever it is just stick to it WB/DC. But I doubt that happens, Zaslav sucks, can't stand what he did to HBO Max changes and other WB quadrants, I don't care about real estate greed shows or ghost hunting or Trump Crime Family docs pushed in my face 24/7 in the new Max...ugh Zaslav SUCKS!
I know a lot of people who want to see both Oppenheimer and Barbie THE SAME DAY. It has become something of a meme. And these ages range early 20s to mid 30s. Now personally I would rather see Oppenheimer, but because people are making it an event to see both, I would be interested in doing that with them.
My thinking with most movies in general: stop throwing them in streaming 2 months after it opens. In the past most movies had 5 or 6 months before they were made into dvd. Most people are just waiting for a movie to go into streaming.
Yeah that drives me crazy. I love the theater experience and most people just wait for streaming. I think Fast X was available about a month after release. Now all these reaction channels don't even go see it in the theater they just watch it for their channel on UA-cam to get views
Just on the Titanic Sub story, it has always been dangerous to go on those trips and they make you sign a waiver saying that safety isnt guarenteed pretty much. The sub is controlled remotely by a mothership on the surface by using starlink and a $30 logitech gaming controller to steer the sub, apparently they lost connection to star link and the sub just sank and a story has come out since about a former higher up at the company wanting more vigorous safety checks on the sub and was fired after that request.
I think that what Roxy might be getting at is that there’s a MAJOR overlap between Barbie and Oppenheimer and cinefiles. And I think that actually hurts Nolan because yes, he’s got the mature audience, and Barbie has the younger audience. BUT the people who go to movies based off directors are gonna have a tough time deciding between Greta Gerwig And Nolan opening night, and that’s an audience I feel like Nolan would like to have to himself.
I do not disagree with you but I will say Barbie just hits a bigger demographic I am nearly 40 I would rather see Barbie but Oppenheimer would be better in theater although I have kids and don’t necessarily have 4 hours to go see Oppenheimer.
Wait, how is DC Licking their chops after their massive flops back to back to back? Guardians of the Galaxy vol 3 was a win for Disney and Secret Invasion is getting good reviews?
Secret Invasion Ep. 1 was dope! Love the hardcore spy thriller choice. Like Christian said Andor-esque, and I loved Andor. Black Mirror season 6 "Streamberryverse" was dark fun. My faves were Demon79, Loch Henry, Joan is Awful, Beyond The Sea...this season was better than Season 5 and some of 4 to me. Checked out of The Idol, it's two shows and only one works- the interesting look into struggling pop star daily life I dig... Then the other show is Sam Levinson letting The Weeknd run roughshod and do his dream job realization of being the lead in a Cinemax After Dark 30min episodes that are laugh out loud bad. Yeah that part of the show doesn't work (and Weeknd can't act either) while Lily Rose Depp does great in a bad show that wants to be Nick Wynding Refn's "Neon Demon" meets Daisy Jones and the Six. Dropped it.
I agree with Roxie that there will be a lot of audience crossover between Barbie and Oppenheimer. Specifically, I think the crossover is more on the side of people who want to see Oppenheimer will also want to see Barbie, based on conversations among my film friends.
There’s no mention of Mamoa being Aquaman in every universe? I rewatched the post credit scene yesterday and Barry doesn’t mention that at all. Unless you guys in the states got a different post credit scene to us here in the UK?
I think you described what the cinemacon crowd might have missed post-covid. People are being very selective in going to theaters. The theater going experience isn't always great. And with so much dropping 45 days on streaming after being in theaters, the FOMO and theater experience isn't the same.
It's absolutely real.. I asked a lady friend recently if she was gonna watch flash and her response was "ugh when are they gonna stop with all these marvel movies".. and she's not the only "general audience" movie goer I've heard say something along them lines... Also, I like to consider myself a die hard, and I was let down at shang chi which was like my most anticipated, I fell asleep 3 times during eternals and almost bailed and went home, morbius was whack, I enjoyed Black Adam, no way home was awesome, but then Dr strange was another let down, and so I skipped wakanda forever, ant-Man and guardians til they were on D+, same with Shazam 2, waited for max.. also skipped spider verse, and only went to flash for Keaton and I have no plans on going to blue beetle or Aquaman either... It's also worth mentioning that casual audience members also look at transformers, star wars and "all that stuff" as "more marvel shit" too
Too many movies suck rn. Marvel has basically run Hollywood for the past couple decades so it falls on them. It’s like Hollywood forgot how to treat their valuable IP. They also forgot how to make good movies. They only get lucky every now and then. The bar for a “good movie” has dropped SO low. These studios seem to think they can just make anything. They are all going purely off of data instead of creativity. Not working out for them. Those few movies you mentioned can’t protect a studio from all the losses. I for one hope and pray people continue to speak with their wallets in the way that they currently are. Lotta bombs.
I’m still extremely excited to see The Flash this weekend, last weekend, being fathers day weekend, we had family event. My thought is that having it premiere on a “holiday-ish” weekend, it may have hurt the movie. I can see it making almost as much as it made last weekend.
Ohhh I get the Aquaman thing . People are saying Aquaman seemed like he was missing character development from the first Aquaman movie so to Cris’s point this could explain the rumors we hear about Aquaman 2 being slapstick and wild .
I apologize if I’m wrong, but I was under the impression that if a movie had a $200 mil budget plus $100 mil for marketing then it would need $520 mil to break even? Doesn’t the theater itself take 40%? If a movie has a box office of $100 mil I’m pretty sure the theater only takes $60 mil. If someone has better insight let me know. Thanks!
Flash needs more than that to break even. If the budget was 200 and they spent 150 on reshoots and marketing thats 350 mil which means around 700 to break even cuz studios only get around 55% of the box office
It’s almost like having a pedophile as the main actor and then having the studio continue to back him was a bad choice. Some real big brains over at that studio.
It really is a bummer The Flash isn't doing well. It's one of the better DCEU movies they've made so far. It's not perfect, but it's a very solid superhero film. Obviously, there a number of factors why it and some other movies are underperforming, but I think one of the biggest reasons is the late night shows being shut down due to the writers strike. It's a big platform for celebrities to promote their stuff and generate buzz, but with the shows on hold, some of that buzz isn't there. As for DC as a whole, I'm also confused about what the plan is. It would've made more sense to simply start over from scratch after the final DCEU movie comes out (which I believe is Aquaman 2) or they keep the DCEU going and simply make better movies and start a coherent through line. This idea of rebooting the franchise but still keeping some elements of the DCEU isn't making a whole lot of sense. I'm sure Gunn and Safron know what they're doing and have a good plan that'll become clearer in time, but right now, I'm not seeing it. As far as Roxy's TV picks, I'm glad she's liking Secret Invasion. She was asked her opinion on it last night on TWG and refused to talk about it, so I assumed she didn't like it. Bupkis sounds like something I'd probably like. I saw the trailer a while back and it looked good. That incestuous scene you two were talking about makes me even more interested in seeing now. I'm kind of twisted in the head, so that's spot on lol. I also want to see Joe Pesci again. I always liked him.
Still should be a hard reboot. Continuing a soft reboot is big mistake. So agree with Roxie on this 💯. It’s just seems like keeping some of the baggage from the DCEU
The reasons I think Flash isn’t doing numbers. 1. Ezra isn’t a movie star. He’s not a leading star. 2. The Falash isn’t an A list character (he’s support). Plus the other crap.
Kristian you gotta watch at least some high rated episodes of black mirror. Some seasons only have 3 episodes and like roxy said they dont relate at all so you can literally just pick and choose which ones to watch! So many great stories and performances you would like it a lot! They're like short films so you dont have to sit through a long thing.. i really recommend!👍
Flash bombing restores my faith in people and the system. This did not deserve to do well for WB. THE WAY THEY CHOSE to handle this whole thing. It’s incredibly unfortunate for the other actors. Some people need to stop underestimating the general public and that they’ll just eat up anything put up in front of them. They got lazy and thought they were getting away with it. I called this months ago…… 36:24
the movie was good thoigh and Ezra did those things after shooting was done minus re shoots your daming a studio for something that happened after a movie was made now goung forward i wont support Miller but i will for the flash
The last 7-8 DC films haven't been profitable. This isn't Ezra Miller. This is the absence of Henry Cavil and Zack Snyder. The boycott will continue until they return.
@@blockwriters5728 Welp ya'll Snyderbros can keep boycotting DC films etc until to you die then lol...gonna wait forever because it's done. All of it, just be happy Synder got to make his JL. I was, and now we move on forward with progress like time & consequences, the themes of the really good The Flash. Snyderbros are silly though, just like Barry Allen they're clinging to a past already finished. 100%.
@jamessdavis5201 pretending it was good isn't gonna make man of steel 2 happen. Even doctor strange made more money . Snyder had the greatest comic book character and damaged him
@@henrytoloza8623 I'm not pretending. You guys are talking absolute crap. The data on the movies Snyder had a hand on except Josstice league for obvious reasons all turned a tidy profit. The diminishing returns came after they disgracefully booted Snyder.
Can Roxy stop saying that Blue Beetle no of DCU movie vs DCU character under Gunn. “ I mean, the first DCU character for sure is Blue Beetle and the first DCU movie is Superman.”
I was looking forward to the flash until I saw the trailer. I really enjoyed the 3 spidermen together in "no way home." With this movie however I realized I don't really care for the flash character, Micheal Keaton is 70 and hasn't played batman for 30 years, and I think supergirl has a bit of an uphill battle being a brand new character. After seeing the trailer I think they should have just did Ben and Henry as alternate versions.
Edit: There is no "Superhero Fatigue", there is bad movie fatigue. It just happens to be most of the stuff studios are churning out are Superheroes, but there are plenty of movies that aren't, Star Wars for example, people also fatigued with those recent releases. They aren't superhero movies. When movies are good, they're good. When they're bad, they're bad. Genre has fuck all to do with it. What happened? uhhh Ezra Miller, and a story that lacked substance. Not hard. Also uhhhh pretty sure they aren't finding those people alive Kristian... They were in a tube smaller than a minivan, with 96 hours of air, at depths that could crush the tube like a soda can. For Roxy: Elseworlds are just non cannon stories with main cannon characters to tell weird stories with them. Like Gotham by Gaslight
The viewing window on that sub was rated for 1300 meters and they were 4000 meters underwater. It likely imploded and the debris field found today pretty much confirms that.
Miller's Flash, especially in the Justice League, was more like Impulse. WB won't cut Momoa's Aquaman unless Aquaman 2 bombs. The first one making a $billion box office gives it more sway with WB.
He does not tell Mamoa that he is always the same. Barry says, "Yeah, well mostly.. you're always loyal, lovable, motivated by bacon.." He's referring to the dog named Arthur. The scene is nothing more than a joke in it's current iteration. It teases nothing and means nothing. Every conversation I've heard about the credits scene has misread the whole thing.
@@andycalmes4201 haha yeah I've listened to like 10+ podcast reviews and everyone keeps reading into it. I know the original scene actually did have different dialogue, but this one is just for being funny. I guess it's a good thing that it is open ended and we can just decide for ourselves. My personal head canon is that he figures out how to get Affleck back and the Clooney cameo was just a fun gag for the audience.
James Gunn has failed at everything not guardians. Everything they have done with DC has been the worst thing you can do. You fire fan favorites, recast woke and pick characters most don't know or care about. Oh and you announce a reboot mid DCEU.
I'm using a day of my PTO for July 21 and will be seeing both Oppenheimer and Barbie on opening day on the biggest screens possible (IMAX 70 mm for Oppenheimer and Dolby for Barbie). I think that an important word to be used when discussing the audiences for both movies, especially concerning crossover appeal is "curiosity." I'm excited for both movies, but I'm more curious about Barbie because I have absolutely no idea what to expect from it. I love Greta Gerwig as a filmmaker. Little Women was one of my favorite and one of the best, in my opinion, movies of 2019. But I have no real sense of what kind of movie she made. The trailers and advertising has been great at not giving much of anything away and I appreciate that, so I'll be going into Barbie cold and on a kind of blank slate. None of the marketing has turned me off of this film, so my curiosity is at a high for Barbie. With Oppenheimer, I know, beyond almost any doubt, that I'll be witnessing a unique, gripping, and immersive cinematic experience with sophisticated storytelling that'll keep you on your toes mentally as well as emotionally, something that only Christopher Nolan can deliver. My curiosity stems from what that cinematic experience will look like as a 3 hour, rated R film based on real people that actually lived and real events that actually took place, something new for Nolan. I know what I'll be walking into with Oppenheimer more than Barbie and admittedly I have more expectations for Oppenheimer, but with Barbie, I'm just excited to see what this ride will be. I'm a guy who loves movies and both cherishes and respects the movie theater-going experiences more than anyone I know and possibly more than some my age (31 going on 32). Any movie from Netflix, Amazon, Apple, whatever streaming site that I'm interesting in seeing that is given a theatrical release, I see in the theaters. Point. Blank. Period. To me, you see new movies in theaters. That's not even a question for me. So, probably the biggest crossover appeal for both movies comes from...people that love movies...that or people who see, as I do, that Warner Bros. was being petty as fuck for releasing Barbie (the film with, on paper, the bigger audience with wider box-office appeal that seems tailor-made for 2023 movie audiences) the same day as the new film from a man who brought them big bucks and great prestige with franchise films and original films for nearly 20 years. Universal announced Oppenheimer's release date in October 2021. Warner Bros. announced Barbie's release date...six months later in April 2022. Just. Plain. Petty. While none of this is why I'm seeing both movies, it is a big reason why I'm seeing both on the same day on opening weekend.
i took the post credits Aquaman scene as saying.. Flash looked for Aquaman everywhere and couldnt find him because.. IRL there's no other actors that played Aquaman in live action. It's more of a joke than something to take seriously about the new DCU.
Kristian I cant believe you havent seen Black Mirror, its phenominal and youd love it. I wouldnt start with season 1 episode 1 though. Id watch season 1 episode 2 or 3, or White Christmas to start. The best ep this season is Beyond the Sea with Aaron Paul and Josh Hartnett
Flash doesn't tell Arthur that he's the same in every universe. Arthur asks if he's the same guy and Barry says "pretty much. Lovable, furry, and motivated by bacon." Referring to Thomas Curry's dog, Arthur, in the other universe... Now excuse me while I go touch grass
Marvel has nothing to do with the flash bombing. Marvel currently has a movie with over $830 million in the box office that was released last month. Both GOTG 3 and spiderverse are current worldwide hits so it’s not super hero fatigue
Take what he says with a grain of salt. He's been pushing a narrative about Marvel being the past, and DC being the future, with zero evidence, other than his personal preference/disdain for Marvel's multiverse/timelines explanations. When DC's is a sick joke.
Just to be clear about The Little Mermaid, it's not even close to breaking even. Dan Murrell has been tracking the summer movies in great detail and he calculated that TLM is currently losing 160 million. It grossed 470 million as of last Sunday, but with an overall cost of 390 million, it's never gonna break even. Remember, roughly half of the money goes to theaters, so that 160 million needed by Disney is actually 320 at the box office, so the movie needs to make something like 800 million to break even.
The aquaman was just there to show that aquaman wasnt changed by the soup can change and Aquaman 2 is still in the snyderverse as the Flash did not have any impact on that storyline.
Hey Kristian just to let you know but the flash has to make around 600-650 million to break even because remember that the movie theaters get 1/3 of the box office
As dumb as those people may have been for doing that expedition, I feel so bad for them. One guy brought his 19-year-old son with him. Of course they probably all felt safe since they were traveling with a man who did 35 expeditions to the titanic and had literally traveled to the edge of space a year before AND was a Guinness record holder. But DAMN smh. They even fired their engineer several weeks before who had warned them that the sub could not go very deep in the condition it was in. They FIRED him. For warning them?? Smh man!
Black Mirror S6 was awesome. They deviated from the strictly sci-fi content this time round. But if take it just as it is, its great, except maybe ep.4. Rankings - 5 > 3 > 2 > 1 > 4
I think it's pretty obvious what happened with the Flash. I'm sure I'm not alone in the fact that I'm totally uninterested at this point in the DCU because of the constant turmoil and turn around in their upper management group. I've seen every single DCU movie in the theater until this movie. The last one I saw was black Adam and I was so stoked to see My Superman back in the DCU only to have the rug pulled out from under me once again. The constant incompetence of WB has killed any interest and enthusiasm I had, even the hire of Gunn couldn't move the needle for me at this point anymore. I guess the only IP I even care about now is the Batman and only because it was shockingly good and seems to be insulated from the constant recasts and rewrites of the rest of their super hero properties.
WB has mishandled the DCEU so horribly from the mishandling of JL with bringing in Wheadon when Snyder’s daughter died, Walter Hetmada Ezra Miller, the actor playing Cyborg, announcing a reboot. No one trusts them and with inflation people are being more picky with their movie going experiences
The biggest reason why this film isn't making money is because WB announced they are rebooting their movie universe. It's why Shazam, and now Flash can't sell because why pay when there's no investment
I don't think they need a full reboot. As long as they recast the big 3 (Supes, Bats, and WW), they should be fine. Keeping Blue Beetle is fine because he's not really associated with the DCEU Justice League. Keeping Aquaman is dependent on how much money it makes at the end of the year. I'm sure it won't be a mega hit so they cast Momoa as LOBO.
Why do some people feel like Marvel doesn’t know what they’re doing now? I understand not liking what they’ve put out recently even tho I have. But they clearly have a direction they’re headed towards. I think the pandemic played a major role in delays and stuff and now the writers strike isn’t helping.
Honestly, they don't. They had a solid MacGuffin with the Infinity Gauntlet that they could build their earlier movies around. Since that concluded, they've been pretty aimless in direction while their audience that sustained them has been been slowly ebbing away. Until they have another solid foundation to build their movies around again, they can't repeat earlier successes. That is to say if general audiences overall haven't grown tired of CBMs.
@@jynxce see I don’t see it like that. You say they don’t without any actual proof. How are they aimless when they’ve put out a slate of movies telling us exactly where they’re going? This whole saga culminates with kang dynasty and secret wars. It sounds like you just don’t like their recent movies, which is your right, but that doesn’t mean this multi billion dollar organization suddenly forgot how to plan things. They’ve told us exactly where this is going.
@darnell9806 You said it yourself. Where do those billion dollar movies reside outside of joint efforts with Sony & Spider-Man. The drop off in audience attendance speaks for itself.
This Titanic sub expedition story is wild. I can’t believe anyone would go deep sea diving in that homemade sub. I hope that it imploded and they died quickly. Otherwise, being trapped in a metal tube at the bottom of the ocean slowly running out of air is a horrible way to go.
I love Jensen Ackles. I think he'd be a great Batman. I can't say enough good things about him. I've met him several times at "Supernatural" conventions.
I think that was the point of the throw away comment. To say even though Flash Point happened, Momoa’s Aquaman can “work” because he’s the same in all universes. I don’t think it’s so Momoa can continue to be Aquaman in the future.
I think there is minimal crossover between Barbie and Oppenheimer. One looks like a light hearted comedy, with a message, and the other is clearly a dark docu-drama. Yeah some adults will see Barbie but that's much more of a family directed film than Oppenheimer.
It's bombing cuz it's not that good (it's highly medicos/okay) and it's visually unappealing. There's not much draw to see it beyond clips or more than once
So someone confirm this for me: James Gun wants a younger Superman, Older Batman father to Damian, Blue Beetle and keep Amanda Waller and Peacemaker actors?
I think all the factors discussed played into Flash for sure... but I think they are mostly factors contained to the movie going bubble, not necessarily the general public. I think the biggest factor continues to be the economic state for the general movie goer. I am tapped into this sphere but only see a couple movies a year because it's just so expensive. Yes there are successful movies but I would bet the vast majority of people are still being highly selective about what they watch. Take that and add in poor marketing/no press tour, confusing DC universes, Ezra issues. It all works together but I think the almighty dollar is the biggest factor outside the movie world bubble.
The last 7-8 DC films haven't been profitable. This isn't Ezra Miller. This is the absence of Henry Cavil and Zack Snyder. The boycott will continue until they return.
Since my local theater closed down and so I have to go out of town to go to the theater. I think I'll probably do a double feature next month of the Flash and Indiana Jones. As you get free refills on drinks and one trip.
It's been in development since the 80s maybe if it came out when originally planned it would have missed a lot of the drama... A more dark Flashpoint direction was rejected and it would have preceeded the other Multiverse movies...
Man Roxy really knows her stuff with DC, I love coy a lot but I feel like Roxy is a bit more realistic about certain ideas where coy just loves comics 😂.
Roxy is right. I think there is more crossover audience for Oppenheimer than Barbie. Casual audience only wants Barbie but film fans you got Chris Nolan and Greta Gurwig both Oscar Caliber directors. Means film dorks are double dipping.
From day one, some of us said DC's rushed productions(chasing Marvel money)poor writing and casting decisions, especially the likes of Ezra Miller, would blow up in their face. Their generic CW characters are better received than most of their big screen counterparts. And their animated films generally tell better stories. I'm still shocked anyone thought this film was going to be a big deal. Hype can only do so much, especially when there's little to no emotional attachment to the characters. The DCEU is a turd that needs to be flushed.
The closest comparison for me is Ezra was playing a more annoying version of Bart. There's nothing in Ezra's performance that comes close to Barry or Wally.
Sad, but can we now nail the Snyderverse's coffin shut. Not even Keaton's comeback as Batman saved this film, this whole universe is done. I can't even imagine how bad Aquaman 2 is going to be. Wipe the slate clean, recast the DC Trinity & go forward. I welcome James Gunn & his vision
The first 1,000 people to use the link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare skl.sh/kristianharloff07231
Watched the Flash on 6/21/2023. A 7:00pm showing, IMAX. Just me & my buddy. That’s it.
Every time Roxy says CW's Flash ran for 9 seasons I still can't believe it. I still remember Grant Gustin guest starring on "Arrow" like it was yesterday. Where has the time gone????? Loch Henry and the episode about the werewolf with Zazie Beats were my fave Black Mirror eps this season.
The time has gone into the large hadron collider
Flash's failure can't be attributed to simply one thing. It really is a confluence of so many different things; a perfect storm really. They all play a factor on different levels, depending on who you are (ie. if you're plugged in to the nerd culture, or if you're just a casual filmgoer):
- Ezra Miller's legal and personal troubles
- DCEU movies (excluding Joker and The Batman) generally not having a good reputation for being entertaining movies
- Piggybacking on the previous note, DC and WB in general making more news for their BEHIND-THE-SCENES drama, than the movies themselves (which collectively aren't good).
- General Audiences having fatigue for RUN-OF-THE-MILL Superhero Stories. Can't say that for all superhero movies when Guardians 3 and Spider-Verse have made bank, and have gotten positive reviews.
- James Gunn's intentions to reboot these movies anyway, so that makes audiences question why some of these are worth watching anyway, if it's not gonna matter. That's an unfortunate by-product of the "Shared Universe" storytelling model that Marvel (and DC to a lesser extent) has popularized.
- Poor Marketing, although not for a lack of trying (and it's hard to promote a movie when your lead star is in legal trouble)
- The Nostalgia Bait is blatant; putting Michael Keaton front-and-centre. And maybe it's up for debate, but Keaton's Batman was a good 30 years ago. Younger people may not be as inclined to see him as Batman, as they were either too young, or not even around for his 3-year stint in the role. Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield benefit from being more recent icons. Yeah, Tobey was 20 years ago, but 10 years could make a difference.
- Too many other (better) movies coming out around the same time.
- Multiverse stories being played out. Considering the most recent Best Picture Oscar Winner was about the multiverse, Spider-Verse being a few mere weeks ago, and to a lesser degree Marvel building something with their multiversal stories, audiences just might already be over the multiverse. Flash didn't indicate that it was going to do something incredible or different with its story. Despite it clearly being a loose adaptation of "Flashpoint", the movie to general audiences could've been seen as blatantly ripping off No Way Home's use of former superhero actors. Just unfortunate timing.
- General word-of-mouth becoming more mixed closer to the release date. People like Tom Cruise and Stephen King singing the movies praises probably elicited more eyebrows than actual desire to see the movie. Nothing in the trailers indicated that THIS was THE movie Hollywood needed right now... And while you had your fair share of UA-camrs reviewers sing the movie's praises, none of them called it an absolute banger, or called it must-see. Add to that the reviews that skewed more negative, which lessened any positive outlooks.
There's probably a bunch of stuff I'm missing, but these are what's coming to my mind right now. And fanboys/fangirls don't get pissed about the DCEU comments. I like some of the DCEU, but I'm not delusional enough to think that they're beloved by general public. Fact of the matter is, they're simply not. No one was flocking to the theatres to see "Justice League", the way they flocked to see "Infinity War" and "Endgame".
On the marketing part. The writers strike prevents other actors appearing on late night shows and not being able to promote the film.
The flash will be available to rent in two weeks at this point. Lol
@@cmorris9494 There you go: another reason right there! If it's not your star, then it's the other traditional means of promotion like the talk-show circuit.
Do you take drugs?
Agree totally, I also think non comic book fans have lost interest in the genre in a lot of cases. The fans won't keep these franchises alive on their own.
Hey guys. For those of you who have been asking how you can help the show? Seriously, look into one of the sponsors. I feel like there will be something there for you. So you can benefit yourself and benefit the show. I stand by all of them and love all of them. I hope you do too!
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As fun as Oppenheimer and Barbie will both likely be, I'm avoiding the crowds on opening day for those and instead watching Cobweb and The Beanie Bubble.
For someone is so knowledgeable on movies and also someone who I truly respect, Why are not covering the Ezra Miller and how his past in mainly the reason, doesn't matter good film or not. Seems like you are shying away from talking about all the horrible things Ezra Miller has done. But I mean he did say he was sorry.
What do you want him to do?? TALK ABOUT erza Miller for 2 hours and say all the things that have already been said a million times?? You know when Chris rock got SLAPPED at the Oscars, the next day when everyone was talking about the same thing, and everyone putting that slap in their thumbnail for 2 weeks, Kris came out the next day and said I ain't gonna be talking about that.....and he didn't!! Everyone else did, but he didn't.... And I agree Roxy, I actually liked elemental.....
@@joegreene7619 Can we talk about how good of an afterlife Gen Leslie Groves is having? He was the general in charge of the Manhattan Project. In two movies, he has been portrayed by Paul Newman and Matt Damon. If you have ever seen pictures of him, you would agree he is doing very well.
A good factoid I heard there have been more people on the moon, than has been at the bottom of the Mareinis Trench.
What happened is they had EVERYONE scream to the heavens that The Flash was the GREATEST Comic movie of all time only to have a Solid to OK movie
It's not that. Who really cares what tom cruise thinks about movies. He thinks scientology is a great religion.
Exactly. James Gunn included
All of the top five highest grossing films of the year, have an audience score of 90 or above. To me, this shows us people are being more selective when it comes which films they see in the theater, vs the ones they watch at home on streaming. A lot of people are still struggling right now financially and simply can’t afford to see a bad movie.
Facts. I just spent like $40 to go see The Flash by myself and there’s no way that movie was worth all that. Maybe $5. My soda cost $8. Parking was $6. My ticket? $26.
They think they can save Hollywood by making weak movies?
Well-said
@@bamm86you spent $40 to see it by yourself? Where the hell do you live?
@@darnell9806 lol Los Angeles.
@@bamm86 $26 for a ticket? Wow! I thought $12.99 for a ticket was expensive where I live. And think if you had a pay for a family of 4, that’s $160 on one movie!!! It’s jet getting too expensive and seeing a film that can be good-mid, just isn’t enough anymore.
Dan Murell has a WB/DC Flashpoint what if scenario vid I found interesting.
The casting to me was always great for the Justice League. I'm okay with Snyder's direction to start off the slate, but the main issue was always the WB/DC suits trying to keep up with the Jones's.
Marvel was already 5 years into their verse build by 2013's MoS release, Nolan's DK Trilogy just finished in 2012. So instead of just being patient with MoS, into Batman, WW, MoS 2 etc, the WB/DC execs at that time (Kevin Tsjihara into Geoff Johns I think) were CONSTANTLY side eyeing Feige's MCU box office openings and never had the patience to take it's time to build each Justice League character slate. And it kept happening when Geoff Johns stepped down and Walter Hamada changes took place.
*And I'm one of those that really dig BvS Ultimate Edition, but it's easy to see that film was WB/DC execs trying to fast track the Justice League for a quick buck, rolling out Batman tactic etc.
*My only change would be not even doing Suicide Squad anything, focus on the main JL crew first then JL films, then expand from there into SS (or The SS), Shazam, Harley Quinn, Peacemaker etc.
Then more changes to The Flash (which I really dug too) due to the new Gunn DCU plan, ugh. Whatever it is just stick to it WB/DC.
But I doubt that happens, Zaslav sucks, can't stand what he did to HBO Max changes and other WB quadrants, I don't care about real estate greed shows or ghost hunting or Trump Crime Family docs pushed in my face 24/7 in the new Max...ugh Zaslav SUCKS!
I know a lot of people who want to see both Oppenheimer and Barbie THE SAME DAY. It has become something of a meme. And these ages range early 20s to mid 30s. Now personally I would rather see Oppenheimer, but because people are making it an event to see both, I would be interested in doing that with them.
My thinking with most movies in general: stop throwing them in streaming 2 months after it opens. In the past most movies had 5 or 6 months before they were made into dvd. Most people are just waiting for a movie to go into streaming.
Yeah that drives me crazy. I love the theater experience and most people just wait for streaming. I think Fast X was available about a month after release. Now all these reaction channels don't even go see it in the theater they just watch it for their channel on UA-cam to get views
@@nathandrake253 Facts then they go do vids about all the studio drama when it's simply this.
Just on the Titanic Sub story, it has always been dangerous to go on those trips and they make you sign a waiver saying that safety isnt guarenteed pretty much. The sub is controlled remotely by a mothership on the surface by using starlink and a $30 logitech gaming controller to steer the sub, apparently they lost connection to star link and the sub just sank and a story has come out since about a former higher up at the company wanting more vigorous safety checks on the sub and was fired after that request.
I think that what Roxy might be getting at is that there’s a MAJOR overlap between Barbie and Oppenheimer and cinefiles. And I think that actually hurts Nolan because yes, he’s got the mature audience, and Barbie has the younger audience. BUT the people who go to movies based off directors are gonna have a tough time deciding between Greta Gerwig And Nolan opening night, and that’s an audience I feel like Nolan would like to have to himself.
I do not disagree with you but I will say Barbie just hits a bigger demographic I am nearly 40 I would rather see Barbie but Oppenheimer would be better in theater although I have kids and don’t necessarily have 4 hours to go see Oppenheimer.
"Superhero fatigue" when Guardians 3 and Spider-Verse are among the most succesful movies of the year
51:15 Roxy had me dying about Big Balls..😂 51:09
Doing Wally West without having a Barry is like doing Supergirl with no Superman
Wait, how is DC Licking their chops after their massive flops back to back to back?
Guardians of the Galaxy vol 3 was a win for Disney and Secret Invasion is getting good reviews?
Secret Invasion Ep. 1 was dope! Love the hardcore spy thriller choice. Like Christian said Andor-esque, and I loved Andor.
Black Mirror season 6 "Streamberryverse" was dark fun. My faves were Demon79, Loch Henry, Joan is Awful, Beyond The Sea...this season was better than Season 5 and some of 4 to me.
Checked out of The Idol, it's two shows and only one works- the interesting look into struggling pop star daily life I dig...
Then the other show is Sam Levinson letting The Weeknd run roughshod and do his dream job realization of being the lead in a Cinemax After Dark 30min episodes that are laugh out loud bad. Yeah that part of the show doesn't work (and Weeknd can't act either) while Lily Rose Depp does great in a bad show that wants to be Nick Wynding Refn's "Neon Demon" meets Daisy Jones and the Six. Dropped it.
I agree with Roxie that there will be a lot of audience crossover between Barbie and Oppenheimer. Specifically, I think the crossover is more on the side of people who want to see Oppenheimer will also want to see Barbie, based on conversations among my film friends.
There’s no mention of Mamoa being Aquaman in every universe? I rewatched the post credit scene yesterday and Barry doesn’t mention that at all. Unless you guys in the states got a different post credit scene to us here in the UK?
No it’s the same. People just didn’t understand the joke about the dog I guess.
I think you described what the cinemacon crowd might have missed post-covid. People are being very selective in going to theaters.
The theater going experience isn't always great. And with so much dropping 45 days on streaming after being in theaters, the FOMO and theater experience isn't the same.
I love watching you guys talk about movies again. Haven't watched C🤬R since you guys left.
Marvel fatigue not real. No way home billion,wakanda forever 800 million,Thor 700,guardians 800 million,dr strange 900 million,antman 470 million.
It’s very real, just not everybody is “fatigued”. It’s not like humanity all gets tired of the same thing at once…
It's absolutely real.. I asked a lady friend recently if she was gonna watch flash and her response was "ugh when are they gonna stop with all these marvel movies".. and she's not the only "general audience" movie goer I've heard say something along them lines... Also, I like to consider myself a die hard, and I was let down at shang chi which was like my most anticipated, I fell asleep 3 times during eternals and almost bailed and went home, morbius was whack, I enjoyed Black Adam, no way home was awesome, but then Dr strange was another let down, and so I skipped wakanda forever, ant-Man and guardians til they were on D+, same with Shazam 2, waited for max.. also skipped spider verse, and only went to flash for Keaton and I have no plans on going to blue beetle or Aquaman either... It's also worth mentioning that casual audience members also look at transformers, star wars and "all that stuff" as "more marvel shit" too
It's not Marvel fatigue, I like what Kristian called it, it's Marvel mediocrity.
It's not fatigue just make better movies
Too many movies suck rn. Marvel has basically run Hollywood for the past couple decades so it falls on them. It’s like Hollywood forgot how to treat their valuable IP. They also forgot how to make good movies. They only get lucky every now and then. The bar for a “good movie” has dropped SO low. These studios seem to think they can just make anything. They are all going purely off of data instead of creativity. Not working out for them.
Those few movies you mentioned can’t protect a studio from all the losses. I for one hope and pray people continue to speak with their wallets in the way that they currently are. Lotta bombs.
An “Elseworlds” Man of Steel 2 100,000% should happen. I personally can’t in good faith support the DCU going forward without it.
Lol this comment is gold
This isn't a big mystery, This DCEU is cancelled, and most people feel like why bother watching it in theaters when it will hit Max in like 3 months.
I’m still extremely excited to see The Flash this weekend, last weekend, being fathers day weekend, we had family event. My thought is that having it premiere on a “holiday-ish” weekend, it may have hurt the movie. I can see it making almost as much as it made last weekend.
Ohhh I get the Aquaman thing . People are saying Aquaman seemed like he was missing character development from the first Aquaman movie so to Cris’s point this could explain the rumors we hear about Aquaman 2 being slapstick and wild .
I apologize if I’m wrong, but I was under the impression that if a movie had a $200 mil budget plus $100 mil for marketing then it would need $520 mil to break even? Doesn’t the theater itself take 40%? If a movie has a box office of $100 mil I’m pretty sure the theater only takes $60 mil. If someone has better insight let me know. Thanks!
Love the thumbnail. Channel keeps stepping up it's game!
Flash needs more than that to break even. If the budget was 200 and they spent 150 on reshoots and marketing thats 350 mil which means around 700 to break even cuz studios only get around 55% of the box office
It’s almost like having a pedophile as the main actor and then having the studio continue to back him was a bad choice.
Some real big brains over at that studio.
It really is a bummer The Flash isn't doing well. It's one of the better DCEU movies they've made so far. It's not perfect, but it's a very solid superhero film. Obviously, there a number of factors why it and some other movies are underperforming, but I think one of the biggest reasons is the late night shows being shut down due to the writers strike. It's a big platform for celebrities to promote their stuff and generate buzz, but with the shows on hold, some of that buzz isn't there. As for DC as a whole, I'm also confused about what the plan is. It would've made more sense to simply start over from scratch after the final DCEU movie comes out (which I believe is Aquaman 2) or they keep the DCEU going and simply make better movies and start a coherent through line. This idea of rebooting the franchise but still keeping some elements of the DCEU isn't making a whole lot of sense. I'm sure Gunn and Safron know what they're doing and have a good plan that'll become clearer in time, but right now, I'm not seeing it. As far as Roxy's TV picks, I'm glad she's liking Secret Invasion. She was asked her opinion on it last night on TWG and refused to talk about it, so I assumed she didn't like it. Bupkis sounds like something I'd probably like. I saw the trailer a while back and it looked good. That incestuous scene you two were talking about makes me even more interested in seeing now. I'm kind of twisted in the head, so that's spot on lol. I also want to see Joe Pesci again. I always liked him.
Still should be a hard reboot. Continuing a soft reboot is big mistake. So agree with Roxie on this 💯. It’s just seems like keeping some of the baggage from the DCEU
Roxy is so🔥
Maybe I'd like flash in the DCEU better if he ran like a normal person 😅
His running is terrible. Wonder if that’s how Ezra runs if so wtf dude 😂 if it’s cgi then I have no words
I don't think ezra running is the reason the movie failed.
A lot of people didn't like Ezra's Barry to begin with
The reasons I think Flash isn’t doing numbers. 1. Ezra isn’t a movie star. He’s not a leading star. 2. The Falash isn’t an A list character (he’s support). Plus the other crap.
Kristian you gotta watch at least some high rated episodes of black mirror. Some seasons only have 3 episodes and like roxy said they dont relate at all so you can literally just pick and choose which ones to watch! So many great stories and performances you would like it a lot! They're like short films so you dont have to sit through a long thing.. i really recommend!👍
great show, RJ rules
Flash bombing restores my faith in people and the system. This did not deserve to do well for WB. THE WAY THEY CHOSE to handle this whole thing. It’s incredibly unfortunate for the other actors. Some people need to stop underestimating the general public and that they’ll just eat up anything put up in front of them. They got lazy and thought they were getting away with it. I called this months ago…… 36:24
the movie was good thoigh and Ezra did those things after shooting was done minus re shoots your daming a studio for something that happened after a movie was made now goung forward i wont support Miller but i will for the flash
The last 7-8 DC films haven't been profitable. This isn't Ezra Miller. This is the absence of Henry Cavil and Zack Snyder. The boycott will continue until they return.
@@blockwriters5728 Welp ya'll Snyderbros can keep boycotting DC films etc until to you die then lol...gonna wait forever because it's done. All of it, just be happy Synder got to make his JL. I was, and now we move on forward with progress like time & consequences, the themes of the really good The Flash. Snyderbros are silly though, just like Barry Allen they're clinging to a past already finished. 100%.
@@kenchun24 Just go to the movies so they don't have to fire James. I"ll be fine regardless...LOL
Why are you so sure Ezra Miller did not hurt the flash. Ezra is why I didn’t see it.
I was wondering if you were ever going to do a reaction to Kraven and One Piece ? oh and the cast photos of Avatar as well?
The problem started with man of steel these are just the effects of constant bad movies .
Wrong
@jamessdavis5201 pretending it was good isn't gonna make man of steel 2 happen. Even doctor strange made more money . Snyder had the greatest comic book character and damaged him
@@henrytoloza8623 I'm not pretending. You guys are talking absolute crap.
The data on the movies Snyder had a hand on except Josstice league for obvious reasons all turned a tidy profit. The diminishing returns came after they disgracefully booted Snyder.
@@henrytoloza8623 I'm also going to go out a limb and call that the narrative of a TOXIC Marvel fan!
It wasn't the Superman people wanted.
Can Roxy stop saying that Blue Beetle no of DCU movie vs DCU character under Gunn. “ I mean, the first DCU character for sure is Blue Beetle and the first DCU movie is Superman.”
James Gunn and Stephen King saying it’s the best superhero movie put a stink in the air
Lies have a tendency to do that
Tom Cruise really did it
I was looking forward to the flash until I saw the trailer. I really enjoyed the 3 spidermen together in "no way home." With this movie however I realized I don't really care for the flash character, Micheal Keaton is 70 and hasn't played batman for 30 years, and I think supergirl has a bit of an uphill battle being a brand new character. After seeing the trailer I think they should have just did Ben and Henry as alternate versions.
Edit: There is no "Superhero Fatigue", there is bad movie fatigue. It just happens to be most of the stuff studios are churning out are Superheroes, but there are plenty of movies that aren't, Star Wars for example, people also fatigued with those recent releases. They aren't superhero movies. When movies are good, they're good. When they're bad, they're bad. Genre has fuck all to do with it.
What happened? uhhh Ezra Miller, and a story that lacked substance. Not hard. Also uhhhh pretty sure they aren't finding those people alive Kristian... They were in a tube smaller than a minivan, with 96 hours of air, at depths that could crush the tube like a soda can.
For Roxy: Elseworlds are just non cannon stories with main cannon characters to tell weird stories with them. Like Gotham by Gaslight
The viewing window on that sub was rated for 1300 meters and they were 4000 meters underwater. It likely imploded and the debris field found today pretty much confirms that.
Miller's Flash, especially in the Justice League, was more like Impulse. WB won't cut Momoa's Aquaman unless Aquaman 2 bombs. The first one making a $billion box office gives it more sway with WB.
He does not tell Mamoa that he is always the same. Barry says, "Yeah, well mostly.. you're always loyal, lovable, motivated by bacon.." He's referring to the dog named Arthur.
The scene is nothing more than a joke in it's current iteration. It teases nothing and means nothing. Every conversation I've heard about the credits scene has misread the whole thing.
I just made this same comment. It’s weird how so many people are reading into it. Same with the Clooney cameo, it was a hilarious idea…that’s it.
@@andycalmes4201 haha yeah I've listened to like 10+ podcast reviews and everyone keeps reading into it.
I know the original scene actually did have different dialogue, but this one is just for being funny.
I guess it's a good thing that it is open ended and we can just decide for ourselves. My personal head canon is that he figures out how to get Affleck back and the Clooney cameo was just a fun gag for the audience.
Id go to Roxy pink Barbie birthday party, she seems legit cool to chill with 😊
Personally, I cant stand ezra miller. Never liked _him_ as Flash. I'll check out the Keaton Batman scenes once someone puts them on youtube.
Same. Wasn't much for them even before the controversy.
Yea controversy aside I find him annoying as flash, however the movie is well worth watching. There's plenty in there. Don't let him ruin it for you
@@CoreyHart13he is the main star of it and even you admit he is annoying in it
I didnt like Ezra but he was great in the movie and showed a lot of range.
Aren’t you cool
Always love Thursdays show with you and Roxy. She adds such a huge element plus the chemistry with you guys is just perfect.
James Gunn has failed at everything not guardians. Everything they have done with DC has been the worst thing you can do. You fire fan favorites, recast woke and pick characters most don't know or care about. Oh and you announce a reboot mid DCEU.
Does he have a big box office hit outside of Guardians?
I'm using a day of my PTO for July 21 and will be seeing both Oppenheimer and Barbie on opening day on the biggest screens possible (IMAX 70 mm for Oppenheimer and Dolby for Barbie). I think that an important word to be used when discussing the audiences for both movies, especially concerning crossover appeal is "curiosity."
I'm excited for both movies, but I'm more curious about Barbie because I have absolutely no idea what to expect from it. I love Greta Gerwig as a filmmaker. Little Women was one of my favorite and one of the best, in my opinion, movies of 2019. But I have no real sense of what kind of movie she made. The trailers and advertising has been great at not giving much of anything away and I appreciate that, so I'll be going into Barbie cold and on a kind of blank slate. None of the marketing has turned me off of this film, so my curiosity is at a high for Barbie. With Oppenheimer, I know, beyond almost any doubt, that I'll be witnessing a unique, gripping, and immersive cinematic experience with sophisticated storytelling that'll keep you on your toes mentally as well as emotionally, something that only Christopher Nolan can deliver. My curiosity stems from what that cinematic experience will look like as a 3 hour, rated R film based on real people that actually lived and real events that actually took place, something new for Nolan. I know what I'll be walking into with Oppenheimer more than Barbie and admittedly I have more expectations for Oppenheimer, but with Barbie, I'm just excited to see what this ride will be.
I'm a guy who loves movies and both cherishes and respects the movie theater-going experiences more than anyone I know and possibly more than some my age (31 going on 32). Any movie from Netflix, Amazon, Apple, whatever streaming site that I'm interesting in seeing that is given a theatrical release, I see in the theaters. Point. Blank. Period. To me, you see new movies in theaters. That's not even a question for me. So, probably the biggest crossover appeal for both movies comes from...people that love movies...that or people who see, as I do, that Warner Bros. was being petty as fuck for releasing Barbie (the film with, on paper, the bigger audience with wider box-office appeal that seems tailor-made for 2023 movie audiences) the same day as the new film from a man who brought them big bucks and great prestige with franchise films and original films for nearly 20 years. Universal announced Oppenheimer's release date in October 2021. Warner Bros. announced Barbie's release date...six months later in April 2022. Just. Plain. Petty. While none of this is why I'm seeing both movies, it is a big reason why I'm seeing both on the same day on opening weekend.
i took the post credits Aquaman scene as saying.. Flash looked for Aquaman everywhere and couldnt find him because.. IRL there's no other actors that played Aquaman in live action. It's more of a joke than something to take seriously about the new DCU.
I thought Flash said “You are the same in every Universe”, not that he was Aman in every universe. Also, so awesome to see all of you in NY.
Kristian I cant believe you havent seen Black Mirror, its phenominal and youd love it. I wouldnt start with season 1 episode 1 though. Id watch season 1 episode 2 or 3, or White Christmas to start. The best ep this season is Beyond the Sea with Aaron Paul and Josh Hartnett
Flash doesn't tell Arthur that he's the same in every universe. Arthur asks if he's the same guy and Barry says "pretty much. Lovable, furry, and motivated by bacon." Referring to Thomas Curry's dog, Arthur, in the other universe... Now excuse me while I go touch grass
Marvel has nothing to do with the flash bombing. Marvel currently has a movie with over $830 million in the box office that was released last month. Both GOTG 3 and spiderverse are current worldwide hits so it’s not super hero fatigue
Take what he says with a grain of salt. He's been pushing a narrative about Marvel being the past, and DC being the future, with zero evidence, other than his personal preference/disdain for Marvel's multiverse/timelines explanations.
When DC's is a sick joke.
Just to be clear about The Little Mermaid, it's not even close to breaking even. Dan Murrell has been tracking the summer movies in great detail and he calculated that TLM is currently losing 160 million. It grossed 470 million as of last Sunday, but with an overall cost of 390 million, it's never gonna break even. Remember, roughly half of the money goes to theaters, so that 160 million needed by Disney is actually 320 at the box office, so the movie needs to make something like 800 million to break even.
The aquaman was just there to show that aquaman wasnt changed by the soup can change and Aquaman 2 is still in the snyderverse as the Flash did not have any impact on that storyline.
I was surprised how much I enjoyed the Flash, the way they did Keaton Batman and Supergirl felt like a letdown to me
I’m gonna see both opening weekend, but I’m most excited for Oppenheimer. I love 3hr epics. In Nolan I trust!
Is episode 2 of secret invasion out? Or is it only for industry people?
As prices go up, people arent going to see a movie at the theater if they hear it's not damn good.
Hey Kristian just to let you know but the flash has to make around 600-650 million to break even because remember that the movie theaters get 1/3 of the box office
Nah its about 450M at moment. Spoke to a guy very close to it
As dumb as those people may have been for doing that expedition, I feel so bad for them. One guy brought his 19-year-old son with him. Of course they probably all felt safe since they were traveling with a man who did 35 expeditions to the titanic and had literally traveled to the edge of space a year before AND was a Guinness record holder. But DAMN smh. They even fired their engineer several weeks before who had warned them that the sub could not go very deep in the condition it was in. They FIRED him. For warning them?? Smh man!
I think Barry was joking about Aquaman being the same in every universe
Black Mirror S6 was awesome. They deviated from the strictly sci-fi content this time round. But if take it just as it is, its great, except maybe ep.4. Rankings - 5 > 3 > 2 > 1 > 4
I think it's pretty obvious what happened with the Flash. I'm sure I'm not alone in the fact that I'm totally uninterested at this point in the DCU because of the constant turmoil and turn around in their upper management group.
I've seen every single DCU movie in the theater until this movie. The last one I saw was black Adam and I was so stoked to see My Superman back in the DCU only to have the rug pulled out from under me once again.
The constant incompetence of WB has killed any interest and enthusiasm I had, even the hire of Gunn couldn't move the needle for me at this point anymore.
I guess the only IP I even care about now is the Batman and only because it was shockingly good and seems to be insulated from the constant recasts and rewrites of the rest of their super hero properties.
Henry cavill superman sucks
@@JerseyBoy489 why do I care what you think about Henry Cavill again? 🤔. Oh that's right, I don't 🤷🏻♂️
@kevinsayers5985 And nobody cares about the one DC movie you didn't watch. you're not brave it's pathetic 😒
I'm only excited for the DCU movies.
@@Dru2037 until one of them bombs and then WB goes Gunn and reorganizes everything once again
"Could be" ?? This movie will lose a minimum 150 million
WB has mishandled the DCEU so horribly from the mishandling of JL with bringing in Wheadon when Snyder’s daughter died, Walter Hetmada Ezra Miller, the actor playing Cyborg, announcing a reboot. No one trusts them and with inflation people are being more picky with their movie going experiences
The biggest reason why this film isn't making money is because WB announced they are rebooting their movie universe. It's why Shazam, and now Flash can't sell because why pay when there's no investment
I don't think they need a full reboot. As long as they recast the big 3 (Supes, Bats, and WW), they should be fine. Keeping Blue Beetle is fine because he's not really associated with the DCEU Justice League. Keeping Aquaman is dependent on how much money it makes at the end of the year. I'm sure it won't be a mega hit so they cast Momoa as LOBO.
Live stream purchase DONE ✅ Looking forward to it.
Wonder woman showing up was the best part of batman v superman
Why do some people feel like Marvel doesn’t know what they’re doing now? I understand not liking what they’ve put out recently even tho I have. But they clearly have a direction they’re headed towards. I think the pandemic played a major role in delays and stuff and now the writers strike isn’t helping.
Honestly, they don't. They had a solid MacGuffin with the Infinity Gauntlet that they could build their earlier movies around. Since that concluded, they've been pretty aimless in direction while their audience that sustained them has been been slowly ebbing away. Until they have another solid foundation to build their movies around again, they can't repeat earlier successes. That is to say if general audiences overall haven't grown tired of CBMs.
@@jynxce see I don’t see it like that. You say they don’t without any actual proof. How are they aimless when they’ve put out a slate of movies telling us exactly where they’re going? This whole saga culminates with kang dynasty and secret wars. It sounds like you just don’t like their recent movies, which is your right, but that doesn’t mean this multi billion dollar organization suddenly forgot how to plan things. They’ve told us exactly where this is going.
@@darnell9806 Yeah. Down the toilet.
@darnell9806 You said it yourself. Where do those billion dollar movies reside outside of joint efforts with Sony & Spider-Man. The drop off in audience attendance speaks for itself.
This Titanic sub expedition story is wild. I can’t believe anyone would go deep sea diving in that homemade sub. I hope that it imploded and they died quickly. Otherwise, being trapped in a metal tube at the bottom of the ocean slowly running out of air is a horrible way to go.
Only thing is implosion would not be a good way to go. Essentially it is what happened. Poor people.
Guardians 3 did pretty well.
I love Jensen Ackles. I think he'd be a great Batman. I can't say enough good things about him. I've met him several times at "Supernatural" conventions.
I think that was the point of the throw away comment. To say even though Flash Point happened, Momoa’s Aquaman can “work” because he’s the same in all universes. I don’t think it’s so Momoa can continue to be Aquaman in the future.
Barry lied to Arthur when he said he was Aquaman in all worlds. He didn't want him to feel bad finding out he was a dog in the other world.
I think there is minimal crossover between Barbie and Oppenheimer. One looks like a light hearted comedy, with a message, and the other is clearly a dark docu-drama. Yeah some adults will see Barbie but that's much more of a family directed film than Oppenheimer.
Who made the decision that miller could carry a tentpole movie? Who decided that the flash would make a solo movie ?
It's bombing cuz it's not that good (it's highly medicos/okay) and it's visually unappealing. There's not much draw to see it beyond clips or more than once
So someone confirm this for me: James Gun wants a younger Superman, Older Batman father to Damian, Blue Beetle and keep Amanda Waller and Peacemaker actors?
Tbh idgaf what James Gunn wants anymore
Awesome movie theater conversation.
Barry does not say Aquaman is the same in every timeline. He makes a joke about the dog because there was NO Aquaman.
We must have seen a different scene. In the one I saw, he tells him he was the same.
@@TheKristianHarloff he was just trying to make him feel good. He didn’t want to tell him he didn’t exist
The flash needs
220 x 2.5= 550m needs to break even at least..😮
Eesh, it needs another 370 mil to get there.
@@MrBrownstone8881 2nd weekend drop highly 75%
They say that Matthew McConaughey is going to be a standalone Yellowstone show... Looks like nobody from the original show will be on it
I think all the factors discussed played into Flash for sure... but I think they are mostly factors contained to the movie going bubble, not necessarily the general public. I think the biggest factor continues to be the economic state for the general movie goer. I am tapped into this sphere but only see a couple movies a year because it's just so expensive. Yes there are successful movies but I would bet the vast majority of people are still being highly selective about what they watch. Take that and add in poor marketing/no press tour, confusing DC universes, Ezra issues. It all works together but I think the almighty dollar is the biggest factor outside the movie world bubble.
The last 7-8 DC films haven't been profitable. This isn't Ezra Miller. This is the absence of Henry Cavil and Zack Snyder. The boycott will continue until they return.
Since my local theater closed down and so I have to go out of town to go to the theater. I think I'll probably do a double feature next month of the Flash and Indiana Jones. As you get free refills on drinks and one trip.
Well... the sub imploded... I just remember the scene in the Core. Gotta be a horrible way to go.😢
Poor Roxy. I hope she gets that pink themed birthday party.
Same
It's been in development since the 80s maybe if it came out when originally planned it would have missed a lot of the drama... A more dark Flashpoint direction was rejected and it would have preceeded the other Multiverse movies...
Man Roxy really knows her stuff with DC, I love coy a lot but I feel like Roxy is a bit more realistic about certain ideas where coy just loves comics 😂.
Roxy is right. I think there is more crossover audience for Oppenheimer than Barbie. Casual audience only wants Barbie but film fans you got Chris Nolan and Greta Gurwig both Oscar Caliber directors. Means film dorks are double dipping.
From day one, some of us said DC's rushed productions(chasing Marvel money)poor writing and casting decisions, especially the likes of Ezra Miller, would blow up in their face. Their generic CW characters are better received than most of their big screen counterparts. And their animated films generally tell better stories.
I'm still shocked anyone thought this film was going to be a big deal. Hype can only do so much, especially when there's little to no emotional attachment to the characters. The DCEU is a turd that needs to be flushed.
Glad to hear some Clerks III praise! Took me forever to watch it but once I did, I was really blown away by how it hit and how hard it made me cry :')
The closest comparison for me is Ezra was playing a more annoying version of Bart. There's nothing in Ezra's performance that comes close to Barry or Wally.
Roxy’s right.
I’m seeing both - opening weekend .
Sad, but can we now nail the Snyderverse's coffin shut. Not even Keaton's comeback as Batman saved this film, this whole universe is done. I can't even imagine how bad Aquaman 2 is going to be. Wipe the slate clean, recast the DC Trinity & go forward. I welcome James Gunn & his vision