Yeah, although you'll mostly be aiming those missles at their constructs tbh, and with that logic in mind, normal arrows should be ineffective against these living statues.
Shields are an absolute must if you want to fight in formation. The only time they're not necessary is if you intend on using a rush playstyle with your army. Also darkshards with shields are incredibly based, they've carried me through many dark elf campaigns. They punch well above their weight class
Or for the Shiny Elves, the Boys from Lothern. I completed/ripped through my first HE campaign VH/VH with a full stack of Sheilded Seaguard as my main army (and indeed most of my armies)
I can never seem to get the hang of dark elves. I like the sound of them and they look cool, but they never seem to perform how I would like. They rout too easily and are very squishy in general.
You missed one other aspect. Explosive damage ignores shields (though depending on the missile, the damage from the fired missile might not ignore shields).
@@mmorkinism Nope, there are plenty of other sources of explosive damage such as blasting charges, grenades, poisoned wind globes, fireleech bolas and other weapons.
@@roland228There are many things in real life that can stop the fragments of a grenade, but won't save you from a bullet, which is why I think logic says it should be the reverse. On the other hand, getting a direct hit with artillery is really hard.
There are a few spells that increase block chance, they can turn bronze shields into silver ones, and silver shields into gold shields. In that case, don't shoot the shielded unit, shoot the caster.
Another way to get ammo on the sides and back, is to fall back one unit from your front line to draw the enemy unit into a "kill box". A tactic I think you mentioned way back in Total warhammer 1. That way you can get the bonus of hitting the side of shielded units, with out exposing your own to counter attack. At least against the Ai as they dont know how to counter that.
Wouldnt falling a unit back from the front line back just leave a big hole in your line and result in your adjacent units getting surrounded on the ends? So not really worth shootung those few guys in the sides and probably some friendlies as well
So while definitely good, you're misunderstanding the math behind ammo wasting. It's not 50% of ammo wasted if 15% miss and 35% of those that would hit is blocked, because those modifiers arent' additive, it would be closer to 45% of ammo wasted. Not a huge differnce in this case but with bigger and more modifiers it makes a difference.
I understand that that is how the math should work, but how do we know that that is how it works. Video games pretty typically do things weird. Do we know that it is calculated from the some of the arrows that are going to hit or from the original volley?
@@The_Delta_Shadow true, took me a second to realize your statement should be correct, thought it through as such, archers fire 100 arrows, 15 miss entirely therefore the unit in question never attempted to block those arrows, but 85 arrows still are capable of hitting the unit out of these 85, 35% are blocked by the unit with their shield. The 35% chance only ever could act upon an arrow that would hit and therefore to use 35% of 100 would be wrong as the unit never even attempted to block 15 of the arrows as they never came close to hitting the unit. they only attempted to block 85 arrows because those arrows would hit if not blocked. Honestly didn't even occur to think about it at first.
Great tutorial video on shields. Shields really are important for frontline holding. And this is why when you have two units, one with shields and one without, go with shields. Clanrats are a great example. Clanrats are terrible, while Clanrats with shields are great. Even if shields tend to be, slightly, more expensive compared to nonshielded units.
0:53 I’m not sure if it’s a something to do with how CA calculates it but the probabilities shouldn’t be additive. It should be block 35% of the 85% that hit, which is 55.25% of shots loosed. Edit it’s 38.25% of shots loosed for silver shield.
I see precisely no reason for that percentage to take loosed shots into account, especially since accuracy exists, too. Obviously, it's the percentage of landed hits, so zerk's math is sound
it also depend on units, some units dont miss any shots at all, others miss a lot, the more they miss the less effect the shield is, so the more expert archer the better the shields are ^^
yes; if 15% is lost before hit then only 85% hits, so it's 55% of 85% which is roughly 47% so 47%+15% that missed= 62% not 55+15= 70% which is 8% more.
55.25 % is the ratio of arrows hitting, not the one missing. Subtract this number from 100% to get the percentage of shots missing. (Logically if the ratio of arrows the the 35% is applied to goes down, the ratio of the arrows missing is affected less). The correct percentage values are 100 * (1 - 0.85 * (1-0.35)) , i.e. 44.75%; for silver shields (55%) this results in 61.75% .
Your percentages are wonky, If 15% miss, the the shields block 35% of only the 85% that hit, so it would be (1-0.15)*(1-0.35) = 55.25% of Shots still hitting.
After noticing their ranged units focusing my Ratling gunners I put Jezzails in front of them and it worked wonders. Add a couple of monsterous units as a front line and you don't even need melee infantry. Especially with the ability to summon them behind the enemy.
I feel like Chameleon Skinks deserve an honourable mention too: though they don't have shields, they DO have 40% Missile Resist as baseline, which is just as bad as shooting into shielded units! Plus their loose formation, so even more arrow is wasted. It's just a waste to get into a missile skirmish with them - send fast units in to clear them out instead of letting them poke down their intended targets, or be a missile soak against other missile units
@@KhorzIskariot Ah damn, how dare that factoid slip my mind! Nawh but that's entirely a fair call: just felt it worth a mention in case newbies to the game haven't seen it yet!
A good joke to be made there about not being able to see Chameleon Skinks.. :D And of course, they're a noteworthy mention. Also, I do appreciate you went with harmless fun and normal response approach, and not getting offended, as it is customary on the internet nowadays. Respect, man. :)
Chameleon Skinks are double-dangerous, because they're almost as good as dedicated melee Skinks, they're hyperfast and your missiles won't see them coming. Anything not good in melee like Sisters or Orc Arrers simply can't handle them, so they get to pick and choose the best way to counter other missile units. They're a great unit for applying pressure, and definitely deserve more praise imo
Counter point, focused fire. Have most if not all your range, focus down the dangerous shielded unit. I have seen chosen melt under focused fire during my Kislev campigns.
One point that is important is also knowing who you're fighting... Some units recover ammo, i dunno if AI uses it, but trying to wait out on ratling gunners run by the Skryre is gonna leave you in a bad, bad place... Also, side shooting.
Love these videos Zerkovich! These tutorials always make me feel big brain when i play, however, I've noticed when i play that, my Frontline always crumbles too quickly! I'm disrupting enemy ranged units and flanking, but somehow my Frontline always crumbles too quickly and I lose big and important battles!
Lizardmen or dwarfs Their Frontlines HOLD and give players withless experience or less interest in being disteacted by the frontline time to focus on the auxiliary stuff like ranged, cav and such. I like lizardmen because a saurus Frontline is terribly simple and a kind of fire and forget frontline which performs pretty well while giving you time to play and learn to control other units
The percantage of ammo wasted is actually wrong. When relations between chances become multiplicative it becomes quite unintuitive. I personally had a lot of problems trying to force myself to view it correctly. I'll explain it on an example: Let's say a unit shoots 300 arrows. They mis 15 % - thats 45 shots. 255 are a hit and 35 % of 255 is blocked - 89.25 shots. Essentially 134.25 (45+89.25) shots were negated which adds up to 44.75 % so it isn't exactly 50 %. If they have silver shields (55 % block) then with the same numbers it negated 61.75 % of shots.
This is why the best Tier 1 infantry are the spearmen with shields. Spears = good against charges. Shields = good against missiles. They may not kill anything, but they often pay for themselves even if they just stand and take fire.
Great video again! Could you do one on missile chariots? There's a whole lot more of them since your original chariot videos but I still feel like I'm missing something by just using them like missile cav.
they are fun as help to play, easy tho and cant make you grow comfortable and vulnerable if you play others, playing against them is a nightmare, those sob yous refuse to give up
Be sure to remember that bronze and silver shields can be quite different while 35 is the base for bronze some units like dwarf slayers and swordmasters of hoeth have bronze shields but they are weaker swordmasters have around 20% and slayers 10%.
What noticed in rome 2 very often was that the enemy unit suddenly retreats from the fight and returns later. So often used then my slingers to target these heavy shield units when they retreat and cause massive casualties over time
If you're hitting a unit from the side, does it matter which? Say if a unit holds their shields in the left hand, is it better to hit the unit from their right than from their left?
I wish that Troy (the game I'm currently playing) had these gargantuan battlefields but alas, nope. The maps are way smaller and cluttered with chokepoints, swamps and forests. Good times.
Flanking with missile infantry takes time and extra care, but it feels great when you manage to pull it off. Is there still the "shieldless" side more fragile to missiles than the shield one like in previous total wars?
5:25 Doesn't engaging in close combat disable shield protection no matter where they get shot from? I always make my melee units engage with shield units first before ordering my archers to shoot them. It has seemed very effective so far.
I thought it still apply for most model in a unit, only modelvpn the front in melee combat, the rest still have their shield animation on head to cover missle
These will add the "missile resistance: xx%" status (grey shield on red background) it does not block missiles but reduces its damage. The value varies and is displayed on the description.
Zerg, could you make another video about movement? This could help new players greatly. You did this ropic before, all the way back with the original WH total war.
its kinda silly but ever since tw napoleon, i have occasionally gone for deep ranks when i could. in twwh, the ai usually goes long so they do a bit of a wrap around which exposes their flanks a bit more. more of a singleplayer thing than multiplayer i guess
I absolutely hate halberd elites, like phoenix guard or temple guard or celestial dragon guard or black guard of naggarond, because they have no shields, and lets be realistic: the chances the enemy is going to try to wear you down or bombard you with missiles is larger than the chance they are going to charge you upfront with enough power to push through spears+shields infantry, but without the strength to push through guards.
You said the Chosen lived so much better against arrows than forsaken all because of their shields. This is false, Chosen also have a shit ton of more armor which helps a lot too.
There's always been something that has made me confused about shields in TW:WH, though. The 35% and 55% numbers. Are they *individual chances* for each individual projectile that hits or are they a reliable "total" number of all missiles landed regardless of RNG?
You wouldnt be able to code total block chance if you dont knkw the total number yet.. I cant see that working. Just one note,not all bronze shields are 35%, its 35 or lower. That new RoR blue horror has only 10% for example
Correct me if I'm wrong, but units like quarrelers and lothern sea guard always have their missile block chance even when their shield is on their back, right?
I fought this guy who mostly played campaign, but he talked a lot of shit about the bad lord/heroes (which were WILD claims. He doubled the funds and brought Imrik, a moon dragon, 4 sisters and not a lot of spearman. I brought a large Frontline of dreadspears (they got his alot with sisters. Negating damage with shields), corsairs, crossbow cav and cold one knights. With a sorceress on dragon and a wild black dragon. He shot my shielded infantry instead of corsairs, and lacked enough Frontline to stop me surrounding him with cav
Don't think the math is right there. If 15% miss and 85% actually hit, then the 35% block rate would block 35% of 85% which is around 30%. Meaning 15% + 30% blocking 45%. For silver shields with 55% it would be around 61% total. Good video still.
that's not how % works ;) if 15% is lost before hit then only 85% hits, so it's 55% of 85% which is roughly 47% so 47%+15% that missed= 62% NOT 55+15= 70% which is 8% more.
i so hate ammo is a thing; but fetigue can only hit a semi low minus effect compared to the actual effect of muscles just collapsing, but ammo, nooo big limits on those :P
Where I get confused is the value of ammo to low cost ranged units (Skaven Slave Slingers). Is it worth having my Sarus Warriors with Shields just soak up the damage when there's 5-6 of them pelting my line at the start of the campaign, and I have no real way to catch them? It just feels bad knowing those junk units get to unload all their ammo for free when I know I should be stopping them from getting any value at all.
In that case you should probably focus on using your elite troops to fight off the infantry and lord and setup an ambush party to flank their ranged units . Once the AI commits to the attack, the ambush party should come out running towards the back of the ranged units and disrupting their formation.This would give your front line a much easier time when dealing with the enemy front line. Note that the flank does not necessarily need to kill off all the ranged units, they can be cannon fodder to distract the ranged units or just there to hold the line and force ranged units to go on melee combat(which they usually suck at). But of course the best would be having some cavalry as they are quick and powerful when disrupting enemy lines. I would recommend you to go through some basic military tactics such as the hammer and anvil (which usually works great in almost any race) and try to be creative with your approach of the battle Especially when skaven don't exactly have the strongest frontline in the early campaigns. To beat the skaven, you must learn to be more cunning than them
saurus are hard hitting line holders, temple guard are elite hard hitting line holders, but not fighters, the moment you tie up a enemy unit you need to help your line holders or else they will die eventually, you can use a monster, magic (careful with bombardments and vortex, use tear shaped spells and aim em right, land flanking units flying units your heros or lords, cavalry for hammer and anvil
I think this one is missing clear examples of the difference. Stuff like having the same unit being shot in the back and front. Or comparing a Shield version with 2 Hand Weapon versions for the same unit. Or even copying(modding a existing shield unit to have no shield.
Nice points but I’ve noticed shields the ai uses are wasted cause they just clump on top of that I don’t think many people just use archers I use magic/chariots to weaken them and shower them from off angles with the arrows.
You math is wrong about the ammo wasted at the start. blocking 35%/55% is only of ammo that hits. So you can't just add 15% missed to the X% blocked. Doing that you're basically double counting the missed ammo as also getting to be blocked. Really it's 15% missed + 35% of 85% hits. Which is closer to only 45% not 50%. (44.75% to be exact) For silver shields 15% missed + 55% of 85% hit. Which is cloeser only 60% not 70% (61.75% to be exact)
Goblins in the 2nd sequel make dramatically wasted for missile units having 50% blocking, too much cost - effective for very low unit tier. The 3rd seems to be nerfed of blocking compensates with lower recruitment and upkeep.
This is why we need formations back. ;/ Quick question: Are shields and spears better than halberds given that you get shields, anti-charge defense _and_ anti-large? :/
0:57 15% not hitting = 85% left, and 35% of the 85% got blocked = 29.75% blocked. 15%+29.75% = 44.75%. This is actually some simple high school math yet you've gotten it wrong in a video trying to convince others of your point of view that 'why SHIELDS win battles!'.
Manfred threw a hissy-fit about not gaining the supreme death magic over Naggash and sabotaged the ritual to stop the rnd-times, effectively leading to the end of Warhammer fantasy and the creation of age of sigmar
TWW3 players: "ushabti great bow arrows cannot be blocked by shield because they count as artilery". [ dwarfs re-rework enters the chat. ] : let me interduce my self.
the new dlc hero legendary hero Harald Hammerstor can reach 100% or 99% dont know if there is a maximum softlimit and its crazy when you make a battle 10 units shooting him from his front he just stands there and blocks all of it
You can't gaslight us Zerk we all saw shileds
Shileds truly
Just gas stationing you. The lesser known but okay version of gas lighting
What drives me nuts is that skeleton warriors for tomb kings have massive tower shields... and they are considered bronze shields
Massive shields
Boney bodies with no soft stuff and tons of gaps
And a bronze shield, no missile resistance, or anything else of note.
Well they are from an age of bronze
@@deadzone4155 hahaha
But they get rolled over by any decent cav
Yeah, although you'll mostly be aiming those missles at their constructs tbh, and with that logic in mind, normal arrows should be ineffective against these living statues.
1:53 Sisters of Avelorn: Centuries of training + magical arrows
Gobbos: Shields go brrrrrrrrrrr
Shields are an absolute must if you want to fight in formation. The only time they're not necessary is if you intend on using a rush playstyle with your army. Also darkshards with shields are incredibly based, they've carried me through many dark elf campaigns. They punch well above their weight class
Or for the Shiny Elves, the Boys from Lothern. I completed/ripped through my first HE campaign VH/VH with a full stack of Sheilded Seaguard as my main army (and indeed most of my armies)
dark shard is stupidly cheap and they can outshoot even armored gun units that above their tiers.
@@nickharvey7233 So expensive though
darkshards in campaign with shields are low-key op. low tier, AP and have shields. Basically Good against everything they are not in melee combat with
I can never seem to get the hang of dark elves. I like the sound of them and they look cool, but they never seem to perform how I would like. They rout too easily and are very squishy in general.
You missed one other aspect. Explosive damage ignores shields (though depending on the missile, the damage from the fired missile might not ignore shields).
Isn't explosive damage only on artillery shots which is not blocked by shields anyway?
@@mmorkinism Nope, there are plenty of other sources of explosive damage such as blasting charges, grenades, poisoned wind globes, fireleech bolas and other weapons.
If anything, shouldn't it be the reverse that a direct hit from the fired missile ignores the shield but the explosion is blocked?
@@alex_zetsu Think about everyone around whoever gets hit by a launched grenade or whatever.
@@roland228There are many things in real life that can stop the fragments of a grenade, but won't save you from a bullet, which is why I think logic says it should be the reverse. On the other hand, getting a direct hit with artillery is really hard.
There are a few spells that increase block chance, they can turn bronze shields into silver ones, and silver shields into gold shields. In that case, don't shoot the shielded unit, shoot the caster.
Or.. just always shoot the caster lol
Another way to get ammo on the sides and back, is to fall back one unit from your front line to draw the enemy unit into a "kill box". A tactic I think you mentioned way back in Total warhammer 1. That way you can get the bonus of hitting the side of shielded units, with out exposing your own to counter attack. At least against the Ai as they dont know how to counter that.
Wouldnt falling a unit back from the front line back just leave a big hole in your line and result in your adjacent units getting surrounded on the ends? So not really worth shootung those few guys in the sides and probably some friendlies as well
So while definitely good, you're misunderstanding the math behind ammo wasting. It's not 50% of ammo wasted if 15% miss and 35% of those that would hit is blocked, because those modifiers arent' additive, it would be closer to 45% of ammo wasted. Not a huge differnce in this case but with bigger and more modifiers it makes a difference.
Could you explain the math on that? Assuming the missed arrows are 15% and shield is 35%, just want to understand it
@@albertlofling7310k so if 15% miss you have 85% hitting and then 35% of that 85% of the ammo hitting is being blocked.
I understand that that is how the math should work, but how do we know that that is how it works. Video games pretty typically do things weird. Do we know that it is calculated from the some of the arrows that are going to hit or from the original volley?
@@ecargfosreya makes more sense to calculate if it will hit the unit first since missile resist and shields arent universal
@@The_Delta_Shadow true, took me a second to realize your statement should be correct, thought it through as such, archers fire 100 arrows, 15 miss entirely therefore the unit in question never attempted to block those arrows, but 85 arrows still are capable of hitting the unit out of these 85, 35% are blocked by the unit with their shield. The 35% chance only ever could act upon an arrow that would hit and therefore to use 35% of 100 would be wrong as the unit never even attempted to block 15 of the arrows as they never came close to hitting the unit. they only attempted to block 85 arrows because those arrows would hit if not blocked. Honestly didn't even occur to think about it at first.
Great tutorial video on shields. Shields really are important for frontline holding.
And this is why when you have two units, one with shields and one without, go with shields. Clanrats are a great example. Clanrats are terrible, while Clanrats with shields are great. Even if shields tend to be, slightly, more expensive compared to nonshielded units.
Putting a shield on the meatshield to prolong it's meatshielding capabilities. I like it
7:00 *_Laughs in artillery_*
0:53 I’m not sure if it’s a something to do with how CA calculates it but the probabilities shouldn’t be additive. It should be block 35% of the 85% that hit, which is 55.25% of shots loosed.
Edit it’s 38.25% of shots loosed for silver shield.
Exactly that. It doesnt matter how the game calculates it, 15% was loose probability and maths are done that way.
I see precisely no reason for that percentage to take loosed shots into account, especially since accuracy exists, too.
Obviously, it's the percentage of landed hits, so zerk's math is sound
it also depend on units, some units dont miss any shots at all, others miss a lot, the more they miss the less effect the shield is, so the more expert archer the better the shields are ^^
yes; if 15% is lost before hit then only 85% hits, so it's 55% of 85% which is roughly 47% so 47%+15%
that missed= 62%
not 55+15= 70%
which is 8% more.
55.25 % is the ratio of arrows hitting, not the one missing. Subtract this number from 100% to get the percentage of shots missing. (Logically if the ratio of arrows the the 35% is applied to goes down, the ratio of the arrows missing is affected less). The correct percentage values are 100 * (1 - 0.85 * (1-0.35)) , i.e. 44.75%; for silver shields (55%) this results in 61.75% .
Your percentages are wonky, If 15% miss, the the shields block 35% of only the 85% that hit, so it would be (1-0.15)*(1-0.35) = 55.25% of Shots still hitting.
hes a youtuber
It was a simplification
@@tl3033what, youtubers are idiots? Also they don't know how to use google?
Perfectly valid correction.
@@sarahshaw7315it was bad math, no need to simplify what's already simple. It's not rocket science
@@joaolemes8757 don’t try make yourself sound smarter then you probably are.
After noticing their ranged units focusing my Ratling gunners I put Jezzails in front of them and it worked wonders. Add a couple of monsterous units as a front line and you don't even need melee infantry. Especially with the ability to summon them behind the enemy.
I feel like Chameleon Skinks deserve an honourable mention too: though they don't have shields, they DO have 40% Missile Resist as baseline, which is just as bad as shooting into shielded units! Plus their loose formation, so even more arrow is wasted. It's just a waste to get into a missile skirmish with them - send fast units in to clear them out instead of letting them poke down their intended targets, or be a missile soak against other missile units
I saw this in another video here on youtube, a guy named Zerkovich..
@@KhorzIskariot Ah damn, how dare that factoid slip my mind! Nawh but that's entirely a fair call: just felt it worth a mention in case newbies to the game haven't seen it yet!
A good joke to be made there about not being able to see Chameleon Skinks.. :D
And of course, they're a noteworthy mention.
Also, I do appreciate you went with harmless fun and normal response approach, and not getting offended, as it is customary on the internet nowadays. Respect, man. :)
Chameleon Skinks are double-dangerous, because they're almost as good as dedicated melee Skinks, they're hyperfast and your missiles won't see them coming. Anything not good in melee like Sisters or Orc Arrers simply can't handle them, so they get to pick and choose the best way to counter other missile units. They're a great unit for applying pressure, and definitely deserve more praise imo
+1 for the Chameleon Skinks. Best unit in the game. Hola, skinks!
My Dark Riders are already licking their chops seeing those skirmish flanking tactics.
Shields also give a bit of melee defense compared to their unshielded counterparts which makes them chaff units extra thick statistically speaking.
At the start I would say 100% ammo is wasted, as even that which will hit, will hit goblins :)
but all goblins deserve to die so its never a waste to shoot them -goblin slayer, probably.
Im brand New to total war warhammer and watching your videos have made me enjoy the game a hell of a lot more
You need the bayonets to make it a napoleonic army. There are no in this game, so I use some shielded infantry to solve this problem
Counter point, focused fire. Have most if not all your range, focus down the dangerous shielded unit. I have seen chosen melt under focused fire during my Kislev campigns.
This video just reminds me of why I like Outriders so much. And Gunderman's Surefires. Being able to flank with guns using speed or stealth is great.
“Spooky scary skeletons, blocking all the arrows.”
One point that is important is also knowing who you're fighting... Some units recover ammo, i dunno if AI uses it, but trying to wait out on ratling gunners run by the Skryre is gonna leave you in a bad, bad place... Also, side shooting.
Remember some units get missle resistence and physical reistence too some units are almost immune to missle fire
Thank you for always giving us quality content Zerk!
Love these videos Zerkovich! These tutorials always make me feel big brain when i play, however, I've noticed when i play that, my Frontline always crumbles too quickly! I'm disrupting enemy ranged units and flanking, but somehow my Frontline always crumbles too quickly and I lose big and important battles!
Lizardmen or dwarfs
Their Frontlines HOLD and give players withless experience or less interest in being disteacted by the frontline time to focus on the auxiliary stuff like ranged, cav and such.
I like lizardmen because a saurus Frontline is terribly simple and a kind of fire and forget frontline which performs pretty well while giving you time to play and learn to control other units
Petition for Zerkovich to do a full episodical domination campaign
The percantage of ammo wasted is actually wrong. When relations between chances become multiplicative it becomes quite unintuitive. I personally had a lot of problems trying to force myself to view it correctly.
I'll explain it on an example:
Let's say a unit shoots 300 arrows.
They mis 15 % - thats 45 shots.
255 are a hit and 35 % of 255 is blocked - 89.25 shots.
Essentially 134.25 (45+89.25) shots were negated which adds up to 44.75 % so it isn't exactly 50 %.
If they have silver shields (55 % block) then with the same numbers it negated 61.75 % of shots.
This is why the best Tier 1 infantry are the spearmen with shields. Spears = good against charges. Shields = good against missiles. They may not kill anything, but they often pay for themselves even if they just stand and take fire.
Great video again! Could you do one on missile chariots? There's a whole lot more of them since your original chariot videos but I still feel like I'm missing something by just using them like missile cav.
The single entity tip would have never occurred to me.
Thanks for keeping with the advice on Total War!
Dorfs w/shields are great. so much armor and you can give all kinds of buffs.
they are fun as help to play, easy tho and cant make you grow comfortable and vulnerable if you play others, playing against them is a nightmare, those sob yous refuse to give up
Be sure to remember that bronze and silver shields can be quite different while 35 is the base for bronze some units like dwarf slayers and swordmasters of hoeth have bronze shields but they are weaker swordmasters have around 20% and slayers 10%.
What noticed in rome 2 very often was that the enemy unit suddenly retreats from the fight and returns later. So often used then my slingers to target these heavy shield units when they retreat and cause massive casualties over time
“Zerk definitely doesn’t know how to do math.”
If you're hitting a unit from the side, does it matter which? Say if a unit holds their shields in the left hand, is it better to hit the unit from their right than from their left?
Gobbos USED to have silver shields. #gobbofacts
We are literally like Zerk on how he says shut up to Mannfred 😅
I wish that Troy (the game I'm currently playing) had these gargantuan battlefields but alas, nope. The maps are way smaller and cluttered with chokepoints, swamps and forests. Good times.
Flanking with missile infantry takes time and extra care, but it feels great when you manage to pull it off.
Is there still the "shieldless" side more fragile to missiles than the shield one like in previous total wars?
5:25 Doesn't engaging in close combat disable shield protection no matter where they get shot from? I always make my melee units engage with shield units first before ordering my archers to shoot them. It has seemed very effective so far.
I thought it still apply for most model in a unit, only modelvpn the front in melee combat, the rest still have their shield animation on head to cover missle
What about the abilities like dodge and others that read as protecting from missiles? What % protection do they give?
These will add the "missile resistance: xx%" status (grey shield on red background) it does not block missiles but reduces its damage. The value varies and is displayed on the description.
@@akaviri5 Thanks
I think, that it is important to mention, that shooting in heavily armored units without armor pierceing ability is kinda useless)
i like that the sponsor is War Thunder. even thou i dont play it, it kinda fits the channel:) ggez and good day
Best shields are trees. They have 100% ward save. 😀
Zerg, could you make another video about movement? This could help new players greatly. You did this ropic before, all the way back with the original WH total war.
Most replayed part of the video is the end of the sponsor plug-in.
Certain units like Warpfire Throwers and Skaven Globadiers also ignore shields.
Because shields specifically state to block "light missile projectiles" and those units you mentioned have different projectiles.
its kinda silly but ever since tw napoleon, i have occasionally gone for deep ranks when i could. in twwh, the ai usually goes long so they do a bit of a wrap around which exposes their flanks a bit more. more of a singleplayer thing than multiplayer i guess
Hi, does formation provide accuracy with range units? Like Line, column, square etc. Thanks.
I absolutely hate halberd elites, like phoenix guard or temple guard or celestial dragon guard or black guard of naggarond, because they have no shields, and lets be realistic: the chances the enemy is going to try to wear you down or bombard you with missiles is larger than the chance they are going to charge you upfront with enough power to push through spears+shields infantry, but without the strength to push through guards.
Theres diference if the unit with shield is running or walking?
You said the Chosen lived so much better against arrows than forsaken all because of their shields. This is false, Chosen also have a shit ton of more armor which helps a lot too.
@Zerkovich I wish next vid explain about hidden stat make unstopable rohirim charge on Britonia cav this can be in chariot or doomwheel?
There's always been something that has made me confused about shields in TW:WH, though. The 35% and 55% numbers. Are they *individual chances* for each individual projectile that hits or are they a reliable "total" number of all missiles landed regardless of RNG?
Pretty sure it is calculated per projectile. But it really shouldn't change a lot about the 35% overall
You wouldnt be able to code total block chance if you dont knkw the total number yet.. I cant see that working.
Just one note,not all bronze shields are 35%, its 35 or lower. That new RoR blue horror has only 10% for example
I believe it's *if* single missile would hit unit *then* you have 35/55% chance it will be blocked.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but units like quarrelers and lothern sea guard always have their missile block chance even when their shield is on their back, right?
yes ignore the animation they are gonna block them missiles
that reminds me.. i need to re-install WT.
I didn't know shields make that much of a difference
I fought this guy who mostly played campaign, but he talked a lot of shit about the bad lord/heroes (which were WILD claims.
He doubled the funds and brought Imrik, a moon dragon, 4 sisters and not a lot of spearman.
I brought a large Frontline of dreadspears (they got his alot with sisters. Negating damage with shields), corsairs, crossbow cav and cold one knights.
With a sorceress on dragon and a wild black dragon.
He shot my shielded infantry instead of corsairs, and lacked enough Frontline to stop me surrounding him with cav
Don't think the math is right there. If 15% miss and 85% actually hit, then the 35% block rate would block 35% of 85% which is around 30%. Meaning 15% + 30% blocking 45%. For silver shields with 55% it would be around 61% total. Good video still.
*Laughs in blunderbuss*
that's not how % works ;)
if 15% is lost before hit then only 85% hits, so it's 55% of 85% which is roughly 47% so 47%+15% that missed= 62% NOT 55+15= 70% which is 8% more.
i so hate ammo is a thing; but fetigue can only hit a semi low minus effect compared to the actual effect of muscles just collapsing, but ammo, nooo big limits on those :P
Does shooting in back or flank increase damage or is it the same as shooting from behind your line?
it doesnt but improves the damage to Morale and ignores the use of the shield, the missile will get in
this is goina be a possibly stupid question
but would these tactics work throughout total war? i.e rome, napolenoic warsr and empire
Where I get confused is the value of ammo to low cost ranged units (Skaven Slave Slingers). Is it worth having my Sarus Warriors with Shields just soak up the damage when there's 5-6 of them pelting my line at the start of the campaign, and I have no real way to catch them? It just feels bad knowing those junk units get to unload all their ammo for free when I know I should be stopping them from getting any value at all.
In that case you should probably focus on using your elite troops to fight off the infantry and lord and setup an ambush party to flank their ranged units .
Once the AI commits to the attack, the ambush party should come out running towards the back of the ranged units and disrupting their formation.This would give your front line a much easier time when dealing with the enemy front line.
Note that the flank does not necessarily need to kill off all the ranged units, they can be cannon fodder to distract the ranged units or just there to hold the line and force ranged units to go on melee combat(which they usually suck at). But of course the best would be having some cavalry as they are quick and powerful when disrupting enemy lines.
I would recommend you to go through some basic military tactics such as the hammer and anvil (which usually works great in almost any race) and try to be creative with your approach of the battle
Especially when skaven don't exactly have the strongest frontline in the early campaigns. To beat the skaven, you must learn to be more cunning than them
saurus are hard hitting line holders, temple guard are elite hard hitting line holders, but not fighters, the moment you tie up a enemy unit you need to help your line holders or else they will die eventually, you can use a monster, magic (careful with bombardments and vortex, use tear shaped spells and aim em right, land flanking units flying units your heros or lords, cavalry for hammer and anvil
That is why I only bring Dreadquake Mortars to a fight.
thing is, you cant use them as VC without allience, you cant depend on an unit to win, makes the game boring predictable and you will lock yourself
I think this one is missing clear examples of the difference.
Stuff like having the same unit being shot in the back and front.
Or comparing a Shield version with 2 Hand Weapon versions for the same unit.
Or even copying(modding a existing shield unit to have no shield.
also shield provide 4-8 MD if u keep checking
On dwarf warriors shields are worth 10 MD
great video!
Nice points but I’ve noticed shields the ai uses are wasted cause they just clump on top of that I don’t think many people just use archers I use magic/chariots to weaken them and shower them from off angles with the arrows.
You math is wrong about the ammo wasted at the start. blocking 35%/55% is only of ammo that hits. So you can't just add 15% missed to the X% blocked. Doing that you're basically double counting the missed ammo as also getting to be blocked.
Really it's 15% missed + 35% of 85% hits. Which is closer to only 45% not 50%. (44.75% to be exact)
For silver shields 15% missed + 55% of 85% hit. Which is cloeser only 60% not 70% (61.75% to be exact)
Goblins in the 2nd sequel make dramatically wasted for missile units having 50% blocking, too much cost - effective for very low unit tier. The 3rd seems to be nerfed of blocking compensates with lower recruitment and upkeep.
Does this work with handgunners, too?
This is why we need formations back. ;/
Quick question: Are shields and spears better than halberds given that you get shields, anti-charge defense _and_ anti-large? :/
You can still see the old video of you have the link lol
Little bit math
0.85 archer land with 35% protection therefore
Only 0.2975 + 0.15 = 0.4475
Well 5% different 😅
Gettin the idea the next DLC is gonna drop soon, Zerk gearin back up
Yeah! Shutup Mannfred! 🤣
0:57 15% not hitting = 85% left, and 35% of the 85% got blocked = 29.75% blocked. 15%+29.75% = 44.75%. This is actually some simple high school math yet you've gotten it wrong in a video trying to convince others of your point of view that 'why SHIELDS win battles!'.
Ok, im genuinely curious, what is the meme hatred every single creator has for manfred?
Manfred threw a hissy-fit about not gaining the supreme death magic over Naggash and sabotaged the ritual to stop the rnd-times, effectively leading to the end of Warhammer fantasy and the creation of age of sigmar
@@Uwawa96 completely understandable hate
Now imagine shooting mirror guard or sigvald with their gold shields 😂
Your knowledge of Warhammer always boggles me. I have 2000 hours and I'm still learning stuff. Keep doing what you do my dude 👍
I love how we just casually call them Hoemasters on this channel 😂
3:43 WHAT THE HELL IS THAT???
7:08 wait...what?? Dx
TWW3 players: "ushabti great bow arrows cannot be blocked by shield because they count as artilery".
[ dwarfs re-rework enters the chat. ] : let me interduce my self.
I've been playing ear thunder for years but I clicked the link anyway
So you've been talking about Warthunder... but does it have shields though?
Percentages don't add like that but ok. 😅
the new dlc hero legendary hero Harald Hammerstor can reach 100% or 99% dont know if there is a maximum softlimit and its crazy when you make a battle 10 units shooting him from his front he just stands there and blocks all of it
your warhammer ttw knowledge/understanding is amazing, your math less so, but thats not what your making videos on so we let it slide :)
A good video and useful tips. How do I apply this information to the VampPirates though?
Iron drakes?
Try to kill the rest of unshielded units..... The are exalted bloodletters
Goblins have silver shields
my grandad are paramilitary police infantry officer
That's not how the math maths
waywatchers never miss
There are people who don't understand the mechanics of a shield?