Spider-Man LOSES Millions?!? | The Saga Of Webs
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- Peter Parker has his photogrpahs stolen by J.Jonah Jameson and compiled into a coffee table book called Webs. Him and Spider-man are called upon to promote the book for a lump sum for an arc in the late 80s. What do Mary Jane getting kidnapped, the Chameleon, Taskmaster, The Prowler, and more have to do with Peter getting taken advantage of? Find out as we take a look back at the Amazing Spider-man and Marvel Comics in the 80s here on Casually Comics.
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Four years after this came out, Todd and others would leave partially over royalties, partially over creator control and partially because they just didn’t like their publisher at the time. It’s almost like this comic was speaking to some bottled up feelings - or maybe I’m reading into it.
No, I think that's what was happening. I think that's why the issue was dismissed so quickly in the story; the editor probably understood that.
Nice catch. I think your right.
I think you are right. But it would not have been bottled up. The creators and the publishers were openly and loudly disagreeing over this for decades.
Sharp eye, old bean.
"Take note, Lois; It's not cute". That made me chuckle.
Late 80s Marvel burying a plot point that trashes the work-for-hire system? I’m shocked.
It was the 80s
*Le gasp*
@@227060 Ooo, you’re right. I see McFarlane, I think 90s. Editing...now.
Poor Peter doing what he has to do to help financially with a new marriage & post graduate studies. There’s realism to this plot since getting taken advantage of happens amongst writers including some of our favorite real life Marvel/DC artists & writers. 😢
7:53 6/10 not enough full body models or multiple rooms of Mary Jane to beat the creepy factor of the Lois shrines
Kingdom Come Superman
Chee, you have such nice ------.
The funny part about Peter feeling proud of his photos and wanting the credit for himself and not wanting Spider-Man to be involved with the tour is that 99% of his photos aren't technically taken by him. He sets up the camera before the fight and sets it on a timer to take pictures - more modern stories have said he has a tracker on his chest so the camera automatically centers on it to make sure he's in the frame.
He's talking here like he's a skilled photographer, and while he has learned a lot about photography over the years (considering he only started taking photos of Spidey to make money to support Aunt May), he didn't take any of his Spidey photos.
When he and Black Cat are a couple and working together, he gets her to take photos of him in action against criminals instead of just setting up the camera like he usually does. And when he sells these photos to the Bugle, Robbie says "Your photos have gotten a lot better. They have better composition, they look a lot more professional." Peter is kind of upset that Felicia is taking better photos of him as Spidey then when he sets the camera up to take manual photos.
TBH, this book arc is just overblown. Everyone knows that coffee table books wind up in the bargain basement of every book store for 75% off even with a celebrity on the cover. It's just the way it is.
You know, a positive thing about modern comics being more drawn out, this story probably could've had breathing room. Another thing, i'm surprised the book was so cheap, should be 40 or 50 bucks, that gives me idea. Peter, MJ is a super hot model, have her pose for you in a book dressed up as Spider-Man, say Spidey gave you permission, and boom, set for life! Give Peter and me money Marvel, we've been through a lot!
Who's to say Peter didn't shoot photos of M.J. for Marvel's swimsuit issue? Gives new meaning to the phrase "Face it tiger, you just hit the JACKPOT!"
$29.95 in 1989 money is $62.87 today. Gotta remember inflation.
@@jpboursaw4469 lol it really doesnt give new meaning. I think thats exactly what she meant the first time.
Breathing room? It took six issues... That was the heyday of breathing room. If modern comics move any more slowly, it would take a year. Wait....
@@rc5989 Those 6 issues would have taken 8 to 16 months these days honestly.
While the MJ-gets-kidnapped plot might seem cliche, what was good about it at the time is that it had nothing to do with Peter being Spider-Man. Jonathan Ceasar would have kidnapped her whether she was married to Peter, or married to anyone else, or still single. She tells Peter after this is over that he shouldn't feel guilty about it because it wasn't like someone learned Peter's secret identity and kidnapped MJ because of it - this was all about MJ.
And MJ resolves the situation herself - she doesn't need Peter/Spidey to rescue her. Whether it's this or her beating the Chameleon with a baseball bat in a later story ... don't mess with MJ!
Yeah...Mary Jane was a lot more than a damsel in distress.
There was too much damsel in distress Mary Jane in the Raimi Spider-Man movies.
"Peter was young, he needed the money!" Precisely *what* kind of photos were featured in Webs? 😝
Always read the fine print.
8:00 Who "kidnaped" Mary Jane. Spider-man is not amused by Taskmaster noticing the typo on his cover.
This "error" would be vastley debated in the letter colums.
"Hey Look it's totally not Batman" HA! I totally laughed out loud, thank you for that.
I need a definitive ranking of comic book shrine rooms, ranked on creepiness to sadness
Your Peter Parker voice kills me lmao, it's just so good. 😂
Awesome how Todd McFarlane’s art still holds up...
At the time of this recording.”
I agree. I still love the art work of Mcfarlane's Spider-man comics.
I wonder what first drafts of the WEBS story line back in the day looked like. I see a few parallels in Peter's contracted work, and how most comics artists and writers get paid. The whole movement of independent creators like Jim Lee and (this issue's artist) Todd McFarlane centered around retaining rights to characters created by the artists (and writers). A creative working for Marvel or DC back in the 80's didn't own their work, just like Peter didn't own his. Again, I have to wonder if earlier drafts of the story made bigger mention of this paradigm, and got cut out by editorial. If so, that could also explain the book's quick transition to B, C, and not a story. It can be hard to fight the man when you work for the man. I would most certainly be in favor of an updated version of this story, so long as (dear God) it's not written by an Abrams.
I think the challenge about retaining creative rights to new characters is the connected universe the new characters inhabit. Would Speedball have ever existed if not for Spider-Man, for instance. Marvel’s Epic line did feature some entirely creator owned characters, but they existed on their own (mostly forgettable). The modern system seems to be royalties for as long as the publisher uses your created characters, plus payments for movies and the like.
It is really really hard to make your own character in your own universe and get over, unless you are Todd McFarlane.
@@rc5989 Work for Hire contracts in general are like that even outside of big connected universes.
So psyched you did a video on this! It's a bit sad/hilarious how his situation with Webs parallels McFarlane's issues with Marvel Merchandising his art and him not getting an appropriate cut/credit on it.
The Webs storyline definitely had some subtext about how writers at Marvel didn't have any ownership rights of the characters they created - it was all "work for hire" so Marvel owned any characters they created.
Sasha, you are one of the most enjoyable persons on the whole UA-cam platform. Never miss a video
I lived through the "Webs" era. It's amazing how quickly everything moved back then. I'm pretty sure this storyline was less than a year (real time) after the wedding, which itself sort of came out of nowhere. It was also only a few issues after the debut of Venom.
Regarding the John Byrne collection of Sensational She-Hulk, he left the title after #8, and when he returned in #31, it doesn't come out and say it, but it heavily implies that everything since #8 was a dream (the issue opens with She-Hulk waking up from "a very weird dream"). And it ignores everything from #9-30, acting like it's continuing right after #8.
Oh yay! It's cool to see you check the Webs issues out! I was hardcore into ASM at this time. It's interesting to listen to you talk about it. I'm glad to hear you mention the pacing of comics from the time. That was the norm. Nowadays plots are slowed down which has it's good and bad points. Good in that they can focus on stories better, but sometimes they can feel padded out when done poorly.
Hey Sasha, love the channel. This particular vid popped up on my homepage a few minutes ago and threw me back to being a kid in the late 80s when this whole arc was out. There's actually a fun 2 part crossover between Web of Spider-man 44 and Hulk 349 where-in the Webs book tour is used as the excuse to get Peter to Vegas to contend with/team up with Hulk against some mercenaries. Fun little story that I think Peter David writes both parts and has Spidey facing the Mr. Fixit version of Hulk for the first time. Well worth a read if you haven't. May have to pull it outta the longbox myself.
8:06 THAT'S TASKMASTER? It's not just his eyes. His whole face looks like a sockpuppet!
The Chameleon in this story is where the character is revamped. Before he was just a guy who had lots of masks. But in this story he is able to actually transform himself into anyone - it's either powers or holograms or both. But it definitely the start of Chameleon being more of a threat since before he had to have a mask in hand in order to change, when now he just has to think about anyone and he's transformed.
Is that a Will Graham and Wedigo FunkoPop on your shelf? I LOVED HANNIBAL!
I know, it has nothing to do with the 'Webs' storyline, which I did read as it was coming out, but it had to be said...
And you do realize that your frequent mentions of the Spider-mobile makes us want you to address it....after all, it did start out as a licensing deal that Peter thought would get him extra cash....
Wibbly wobbly continuity woody...
This needs to be a tshirt, if you don't have merch this is a good place to start.
You can even add the lets do it again part.
I actually heard about Webs via a couple of SpideyTorch fics but never to the details. this is great.
@7:02 - the first Superman comic, called Action Comics, is homaged here.
You have to remember Spider-Man's number one enemy, poverty.
When Peter tells Aunt May about the book she says that she'll see Peter's book the next time she goes to K-Mart.
Maybe in this video you could have told the viewers what K-Mart was. 😂
1:01 Oh my god, mini Hannibal and Wendigo in the background. I love it!
I was wondering who else noticed
I first heard about Webs in Spiderman novel by Diane Duarte, I think it was Venom Factor.
Just a throwaway reference but it proved she really knew Spiderman mythos
I absolutely love your channel and you actually got me into comics when at first I only looked at the movies and shows so thank You for everything 100k will come soon I can feel it
9:21 He's always had issues with showing support directly. And there's the idea a lot of writers liked to play with. "What if he actually DOES know he's spidey"
First I totally agree. There were missed opportunities especially in '04. And a reimagining would be good.
I don't know how it happened, but I had initially missed this video. {Psst. * whispers * Why is it not in your Spider-Man playlist?}
I was actually been exposed to (issue #305) California Scheming a dozen, or so years ago (writing this 01/22) but not how they got there. And never got to read the rest of the arc. So thanks for catching me up!
Loved that era, the stories, the artwork * chef kiss *
IIRC this was brought up at least once in the 90s,again referring to royalties Peter supposedly earns from it.
This probably isn’t the prevailing thought nowadays,but I think this run is the best Spider-Man there ever was. The art,the balance of fun and seriousness,and the adult,married peter who hadn’t been published long enough to have baggage to have to get rid of yet.
At least part of this storyline was collected in trade as “Marvel Visionaries(?):Todd McFarlane”
"Introduce wealth and that doesn't go over well."
Oh man, the Dan Slott "Peter Parker Global Business Billionaire" arc is a real low point for the character. That Peter is totally unrecognizable from the character over the previous 40-50 years. "With great amounts of money come no responsibility."
At that time I actually wrote a poem ala Dr. Suess called "Your a Mean One, Mr. Slotts." About how wrong that whole arc was.
Yep total nerd here!
There's a cool angle you could take this type of set up where Peter has to either not be Spiderman or act in a more covert manner than usual; fearing that if Spiderman appears too much on the book tour it'll be suspicious to Jameson. There could be conflict around when and where he can act in a way that's a little different from normal. And maybe Jameson is being more exploitative of Peter to help keep the public eye on the book so he's being made to go to a lot of events with a lot of people around checking in on him.
Amazing Spider-Man 308 was the first comic book that I read cover to cover as a kid (rather than just look at the pictures like I did when I was younger). It was fun seeing it in this video. ☺️
When it came up, I assumed (and one should never assume) that either Peter worked it out by them or, and this is me looking at how JJ actually acts, pretending to be a jerk, then doing something surprisingly nice in a jerk way, when he likes Peter or when his father started dating Aunt May or some other odd time, such as there is an account in Peter's name that JJ created because he doesn't trust peter not to spend it or there is a mysterious check sent to pay one of May's bills every month.
Okay, I'm giving the Grinch here a heart, but thing like that happen, either because JJ gets an urge or Betty Brant or Robbie Robinson nudge him into it.
Peter, I'd like to introduce you to my friend Matt Murdoch...
Damn mj rescuing herself and she got a gun. She's not waiting for no man to rescue her like Louis everyone marries me Laine
That gun was taken from a goon, she will eventually by a gun during Return of the Sinister Six where Jonathon Caesar comes back to schema against her but implicated in a different schema to take her away it's great
Despite the trope of making MJ a damsel in distress in the movies and games, in the comics she is a bad ass who is capable of rescuing herself.
Although he's not a physical threat, MJ was threatened by the Chameleon once, and she proceeded to beat him up with a baseball bat. Don't mess with MJ!
The royalties Peter gets from "Webs" is probably barely enough to cover his expenses on actual web fluid(s), spider-tracers, and other spider-gadets when he's broke. It would explain away why Peter doesn't have to add such maintenance to his list of typical problems anymore.
Webs is also mentioned in Spider-Man/Human Torch #5. After Peter reveals his identity to Johnny, he’s invited to dinner with the family. Franklin asks Ben, “who’s that guy talking to Uncle Johnny?” and Ben pulls a copy of Webs from their bookshelf to show Franklin that Peter is Spidey’s photographer. It’s also said that someone gave Franklin a copy of Webs for Christmas because Spider-Man is his favourite superhero. It’s all a really quick throwaway moment but that’s how I first heard of the book in canon (+ Spider-Man/Human Torch is such a good mini series, I will mention it whenever the opportunity presents itself)
The Spidey/HT mini-series is also written by Slott (who wrote the She-Hulk issue) so it makes sense that he would remember Webs and use it in both of these Spidey stories.
I think the Marvel editor’s notes were literally notes from the editor. It varied and waned across years and editors. Stan Lee started it for different reasons, but later it was used for the intended purpose. My first Marvels coincidentally started new plots all around but the editorial notes were a big part of the Marvel experience. Every event is connected, like with Kevin Bacon degrees of separation.
Loved the video!
great vid, I remember this storyline from back in the day, Mr. Michelini was my favorite writer at the time, along with Peter David, and you're right about how much story they squeezed into a single issue then. juggling sub-plotz was a thing back before Bendez and Co. with issues where only one thing happens in 20 pages. I see you're becoming more involved in how a story could have been told differently, thats great, I love that, it encourages viewers to do likewise and demand a better product. how about those cover blurbs from the olde days: "still only 30 cents!" they used to warn you when the price was about to go up by a nickel! nice.
Not sure if anyone else caught it, but--given the storyline's focus on creatives/workers being taken advantage of--the fact that #306's cover homages Action Comics #1 is likely no coincidence... 🙁
The Action Comics homage was because that month was the 50th anniversery of Supeman. They also reference this in the issue.
Sharing knowledge is one of the great things about this channel, and others like it! I like to think that nobody knows everything, but everybody knows something! (And yes, I know my comments can come off heavy handed, but they're just general rants, I swear! Also, wine is sometimes involved...like now.)
What Peter Parker should've known was his contract. I want to feel sorry for him, but then there's how a work for hire deal, uh, actually works. When you hire a plumber or mechanic to do work on something, you don't owe a fee every time you use your plumbing or vehicle afterwards. Do ya? Should've talked to Phil Sheldon, author/photographer of MARVELS.
You're right about the writing. When subsequent writer(s) bring back a thing from a previous story, maybe the editor should make sure they read up on the previous thing, for continuities sake!
Come to think of it, Sasha, you could do a coffee table book. I can see it now, "Whims, by Sasha" -the salt free version (I know, sounds like a perfume, but still effective)! Just make sure you negotiate a better deal up front. As a former Graphic Designer, I can come up with a better title font than Todd McFarlane. There. The wine is kicking in.
much like a golden age comics, this tube has only gotten better with age very well done
8:00... I think KIDNAPPED IS MIS-SPELLED.
Maybe Aunt May being left in the dark warrants the way she babies Peter and treats him like a useless paperclip in Spider Ma'am.
Jonah's history is full of examples of him taking care of employees he cares about but not wanting anyone to know about it. When Peter was put on trial for murder during the 1990s Clone Saga (yes, this happened!), Jonah secretly paid all of Peter's legal bills.
Basically Jonah has a reputation of being a tough newspaper man and wants to keep that reputation, and showing that he cares about his employees would ruin that in the eyes of the public (and his employees).
I think it's time for Peter to head back to the courtroom to get a slice of that royalty pie!
I'd like to see a "What If" where Peter decides to go to the Bugle's competition to get a better deal.
He has done this in ASM. But the publisher asked too many questions - how did you get these photos, did Spidey call you before and tell you where to be, do you have a deal with Spidey, how do you happen to be in the right place at the right time, etc. So he went back to the Bugle, where Jonah still treated him badly, but didn't ask these kind of questions.
Sasha, nice entry but perhaps the real meaning of the whole scene was a dig at how the comic industry works. Many creators (writers and artists) did the actual creative work but got pittances - and had to hustle around at meet/greets/signings - that maybe why over time this got downplayed - it hit way too close to home!
Your Peter Parker voice is growing on me but I gotta know what made you go with a Steve Urkel impression for Peter.
I think it actually would've made a cool arc for the publisher using these books signing as an attempt to expose Spider-Man's identity or something.
There have been many stories where Peter travels outside of New York and has to go into action as Spidey, and he's worried that people will realize "Peter Parker is here in X, and suddenly Spider-Man is here too? Wait a minute ..."
So when the book publisher tells him they want to have Spidey on this tour too he should have jumped at it, because he must have known that there would probably be a point on this tour when he would have to go into action as Spidey, and this way he wouldn't have to worry about anyone wondering "What is Spider-Man doing here, so far from New York?"
Your summary of Dan Slott's use of Spidey continuity (i.e. remembering and mentioning the Webs book in the She-Hulk story) is spot on. Besides saying that he is the #1 Spidey fan and that he has notebooks full of story ideas and notes, Slott also famously says that he remembers so much of Spidey continuity. His ASM run is full of him trying to show off by mentioning obscure or forgotten Spidey stories/characters/etc, but while he can remember that they happened, he usually doesn't remember what happened in their original stories. Just like you described with Peter saying he still gets royalties from the book today, when the original story established that isn't true.
At 3:39 the book publisher offers Peter a "partial royalty" in exchange for his cooperation on the book signing tour. He says it might be worth as much as $25K, if the book sells as well as he anticipates. So, assuming Peter gets that in writing off-panel, he DOES have a path towards receiving the royalty he mentions to the lawyer in the later story.
Based on the angle they went with, and what we now know about Marvel (and DC), this arc SCREAMS "corporate!" The fact that Todd McFarlane being the artist on the book drips with so much irony that I might need to grab a mop.
did you know that Clark Kent was a published thriller author? One of them, Under A Yellow Sun; was adapted by DC into a Graphic noel.
Hey, Sasha! Make a video about Shannon Kane, the Spider Queen. The Universe deserves it.
The Bugle owns the right to the Spider-man pictures Peter gave to a guy with a mustache so he gets screwed out of money and credit... That's what they call in the industry "Getting Ditko'd"
@8:31 not sure about your Marisa Tomei impression...
😉
Spidey should've tried to get a book published of previously unpublished photos.
Taskmaster: I don't know any Mary Lou Wilson Picket.
Very good video with an interesting topic. I learned something I did not know and that's always fun for me. Thank you for a great video. Keep up the excellent work.
"Webs" actually made it to one of Spider-Man's biography in one of the Official Handbook entries.
Having read this era of comics recently in Spider-Man it didn't even blip on my radar that people didn't know about. I will say that your ideas would have been better, but I think it was handled well in Spider-Man itself. I'm kind of surprised we don't hear about many more of these books for various heroes.
how are you able to upload everyday it’s crazy awesome, i don’t even read comics or am invested in marvel/DC anyrbinf comic related as ur intro would say lmaooo
except nancy drew and the red/yellow/blue pokémon stories heehehehhehe
Happy if I helped narrow your search. Side note, if you liked MJ being a bad ass, check out the Amazing Spidey issues that tie into Inferno. Its another case of Spidey freaking out on stuff, MJ going 'yeah, I'm just going to deal with it'.
I'd have to say if you're looking for that marriage of realism and comic book, try the extremely gorgeous Marvels, written by Kurt Busiek and painted by Alex Ross. To me it foreshadows Astro City, which they went on to co-create, but additionally, you get an alternate everyman character that isn't Peter and also importantly isn't a superhero.
ALSO: it features a *young* Jonah Jameson and I think you could lean into that....because his first experience with superheroes could be the one that defines his relationship with Spider-Man. (See what I did there?) :D
Plus, you're getting to look at arguably the guardian of the Golden Age in Alex Ross with his astounding artwork which somehow gets better as he gets older.
Just a thought!
Wait so #306 has the same pose as OG Superman
I remember WEBS and I’ve always wanted a collection of full page and double page spreads in hardcover format published under the WEBS title. Between the Romitas, McFarlane, Cho, Ramos, Cammuncolli, Anacleto, and 60 years there is more than enough material to make it awesome.
I always thought as odd seeming Spiderman should have confronted Jameson to pay him big for his photos and threatened to sue him for likeness infringement or something if he didn't. Or Have Spiderman tell Jameson to pay Parker big for this book.
Yeah... this is why we hated One More Day. Pete and MJ were great together, and she was far more than a damsel in distress, or fodder for Fridging. In the comics, some of the novels, the cartoons, she was essential to the legacy of Spider-Man... and Marvel kept trying to take her out. And eventually did.
They say they were worried that a married Pete wouldn't be relatable to readers, but that isn't a problem, because characters aren't always relatable, they are inspirational.
Batman and Superman are great examples of this. The people who read them are never going to be genius billionaires or alien demigods, but what they stand for inspires the readers to be better than they are.
Pete being a healthy relationship with a strong, self determined partner shows readers what they should aspire to.
Frankly, would you rather see couples like Pete and MJ, or like Harley and Joker?
Love this channel 💚💚
Only problem now is, if WEBS is reintroduced, will it be the royalty-free version or no?
And although $29.99 may seem low, JJJ is probably crazy like a fox in that it would result in huge sales. A big price tag tends to drive off the majority of consumers; better to guarantee selling 1000 units at $29.99 than take a chance on selling 100 at $299.99.
God DAMN McFarlane was so good back then
In the universe of the Spider-Man PS4 game Peter met somebody who wanted to market a Spider-Man toy but he'd have to reveal his identity to make money off it.
IMO Pete was too far into his career to be treated as someone so overwhelmed by the thought of getting a book deal that he just goes along with it. Sure, he could have thought about getting a lawyer to look it over but treating him as some starry eyed kid would have been a disservice.
Pete really should have taken some business classes during his time at Empire State. On the bright side, at least he didn't have to marry Lois.
lol, why does Peter Parker have the same voice as Jimmy Olsen? I guess that I relate to these characters a lil' too much, so....c'mon!
My eyes are glue to that Hardcover copy of berserk
Damn, I feel old. I was a kid when I read these stories and then even did a call back in the clone saga. When he was on trial for murders after Aunt May "passed", they said he could have done it while he was in tour and known to disappear... cause he was saving the day as Spidey.
"Baby got back"
Was that a Fresh Prince of Bel Air reference?
This is why is glad I found this channel, Causal Comics helps with comics trivia game, thanks for amazing episodes! 👍👍
Dan Slot wrote the she hulk story to show how much he know about spider-man, but it shows he did not look too deeply if he did not know Peter did not get royalties.
Slott's ASM run is full of instances where he shows that he remembers Spidey continuity, but doesn't remember all the details about it.
@@jhornacek figures he was a lazy Spidey fan.
@@blackrazer22 He describes himself as being Spidey's biggest fan, then writes story after story where he can't defeat the villain, even if it's someone he's defeated before, and has to bring in a guest-star(s) to help him win. SHIELD, Mockingbird, the Avengers - Spidey was a chump in the Slott run.
Haha, i just relised that #306 cover 🤣
Great Aunt May impression.
Todd started as Peter Parker and then, when he got his own company, he became Jonah.
Marvel missed a marketing opportunity by now printing an art book called webs and selling it along side the comic it appears in. Then the comic does dual work as an interesting story and promo for the art book.
What? The third volume of the Sandman Omnibus isn't good enough for you? I'll have you know the fanart galleries of Death and Dream only take up a third of the book.
Peter should have a lawyer look over his contract? Where in the marvel universe would he find a lawyer????
Salt, Tea, reasons.... at the time of this recording.
all i know right now is a copy of webs needs on my graphic novel shelf
I'm guessing that Peter demanded the rights to "Webs" so much after this arc that Jameson broke down and gave it to him so that he does get royalties from sales.
The most upsetting thing about this has nothing to do with Peter being his usual self-destructive self, he does this to himself, the main issue is that Mary Jane at this point is incredibly famous and would have a marketing team that would never allow their client MJ, not Peter, to look foolish and taken advantage of even though it is through Peter, her husband. It makes her PR team look week so I was shocked she was so calm about Peter getting screwed over because if you look at that shrine it is the definition of fame does not occur in a vacuum. It takes a team of people and with someone as famous as MJ she should have a ton of people but then again apparently no one else noticed she was gone. I am so confused.
This is to funny
I recently reread shadowpact and I just think the voices would be GOLD! Love the chanel