Woman: "I could lose my job." Boy who's known her for less than a day: "Who cares? I have an idea!" I suppose this does match Peter's pre Uncle Ben death personality from the first comic, which a lot of adaptations tend to soften.
“I’ll do anything to make sure [Aunt May and Uncle Ben] are happy. The rest of the world can hang for all I care.” - Peter Parker, Amazing Fantasy #15 Might’ve paraphrased a bit, haven’t read it in a while.
@@MemesToa I remember reading that line after getting into Spider-Man thanks to the Raimi films. Pre-spider Peter was a bigger jerk than most people remember, which made his character development all the more impactful
Peter's expressions are priceless in this. Like, he is WAY too in to this situation. He likes having a superhero pet project more than he likes having his, erhem, coffee date.
Also: WHAT-IF!? JJ's reasoning for thinking Spider-Girl's outfit was obscene wasn't different from Sasha's? "That Spider-Hussie is a MENACE! Those boots don't match that top at all!"
Okay, I got some things to say about Betty's costume... THE HELL IS THAT?!?! First off she looks like if Peter got his head put on the body of 70's swimsuit model or figure skater. Secondly, they kept the original gloves and boots, yet it clashes with the one piece, and the one piece has webbing, acting as sheer fabric, which could work, yet not here. Finally, the under webbing, WHAT IS IT ATTACHED TOO?! Her bare arms? That looks gross, this ALL LOOKS GROSS. Like, what was wrong her her leotard being a basis, why am I so pissed? lol Sorry for the rant, but as someone who took classes on design, I feel... blighted upon! (Now remove the mask and maybe we can fix this thing lol)
I love how in the panel of Spider-Girl holding the unconscious burglar, they drew the pupils of her eyes in the mask, which is a mistake since you're not supposed to see her eyes through the mask, but it's a reference to the similar panel in the original Amazing Fantasy #15 where you see Peter's pupils in the mask.
I'm glad you addressed the issue of the suddenly-visible pupils; that always bothered me in the original story. I wondered if it was the result of an editorial decision that was later regretted. For a while I thought that my copy of the original peter parker version had somehow been vandalized before I bought it.
@@arejay54 I think the visible pupils in the Amazing Fantasy story is just Ditko adding them to express Spider-Man's shock. At this point they were still making up the rules for Spidey (I think his spider-sense isn't mentioned until ASM #1). I know some reprints erase the pupils in this panel but I like my reprints to contain the original mistakes, like when Doc Ock calls Spider-Man "Superman", or when Stan's narration calls Peter "Peter Palmer".
Thanks to you fine people of culture I now know what Tintinnabulate means, and about it's connection to Edgar Allen Poe; I still have no idea why it is on or in this issue tho lmao. I am very sad I missed out on doing my terrible "the bell has already been rung" Lex Luthor impression tho.
Other than that I find it odd that with as much knowledge as you have of comics a lot of the comments are a bit "you are my manic pixie dream girl" or "ackachulley..." comments.
10:52 It might be hypocritical, but reassuring her that it's not her fault is completely in character for Peter. He only holds himself to a ridiculous standard, not everyone else.
According to the Editor's Note in *What If the Avengers Fought Galactus* , the Watcher gives himself muscles to look "intimidating" to the Avengers. So either he can change his form to look buff, or he did a workout montage off-screen to get those gains. And given that he slugs it out with Galactus in the climax like the Charles Atlas kid, he knows how to use them.
Ya know, I pretty much agree with Sasha, but, I do have to admit....once she took off the mask in the final panels, it sorta, worked, I guess, in a way!
I think it's the lighter blue of the, what, Spider-Bustier? 😁 If it was the royal blue of the regular Spider-Man outfit, it would probably work better. But yeah, I remember this when it originally came out (yes, I'm THAT old!) and wondering how the under-arm webbing worked when she doesn't have sleeves!
This story's ending was kind of forced up on the writer (although I think the same writer wrote all 3 stories in this issue) because each one has the "new" Spider-person either dying or quitting, with Peter deciding to use the spider (whose body he kept in each story) to give himself Spider-powers. The Watcher says something like "Because in every reality, it is destiny that Peter Parker, and only Peter Parker, would become ... Spider-Man!" Which of course gets thrown out the window years later with Miles Morales, Miguel Ohara, and all the alternate Spideys of Spider-Verse.
Yes, but Miguel doesn't count, because he's the Spider-Man of 2099 when Spider-Man started his career before 1999. Since it's 2020, Peter has only been active since 2013 or later. Unless Marvel has added a year or two to the sliding scale.
@@toddnolastname4485 Marvel's sliding timescale is tricky. They said in Civil War (when he unmasked) that he got his powers when he was 15 years old. And in ASM Volume 3 (?) #1 it said that was 13 years ago when Peter got bit, so he was now 28 years old (and that was in 2014). Peter has definitely matured once Slott left the book and Spencer took over, but that's mostly due to Spencer fixing most of the characterization problems Slott had done and making Peter act responsible like he should. There have been flashbacks/retcons to the Lee/Ditko era in recent years (i.e. Learning To Crawl mini-series) where they have done some updates to make it so that it doesn't take place in the 1960s (i.e. personal computers) but there are also things they leave in that definitely set it in the 1960s. It's like Marvel wants to have its cake and eat it too. They want Spidey's origin to remain in the 1960s, but they also want it to be "13 years ago" from present-day Spidey.
Probably a yes and know since it is probably a spider sense reference .. My spider sense is ringing was something used I am glad we use tingling now but still
I saw a picture of her costume a few years ago. I didn't know this comic existed so I just thought that someone had photoshopped an old Spidey comic and made the costume as ridiculous as possible for a joke. I would have never imagined that it was *REAL*
Peter and Betty's relationship is much stronger (and more stable) here than in the actual ASM issues. This story is only 1/3 of the issue so there's not much room for extra characters, but I don't think any of Peter's school "friends" appear. In normal continuity Peter and Betty were in love but Liz Allan kept making passes at Peter in front of Betty, and Betty would never accept that Peter was her boyfriend and wasn't interested in Liz (no matter how many times he told her), so that (plus Peter's double-life as Spidey) eventually drove them apart and caused her to date Ned.
I had this in a collection of What IF, I got it in library and never gave it back and it’s the comic that got me into comics! There’s a crazy amount of nostalgia!!!
According to google, tintinnabulation means “a ringing or tinkling sound.” ... so what I’m saying is I think you’re getting your fix of both zany Spider-Man stories -and- cowbell!
I just found your channel and LOVE it. Please do more Hal “Hot Mess” Jordan. I always had this view of him as basically being a great pilot and a great Green Lantern and a total wreck at *everything else*, nice to see it confirmed from an outside source.
I would love a video about the long and crazy history of the character of Betty Brant. Jonah's secretary, Peter's first love, constantly berating Peter for being interested in Liz (when he's not). She dates Ned Leeds at the same time she's dating Peter. Years later she marries Ned but leaves him on his honeymoon because he's working, so she comes home and kisses Peter (and it's heavily implied they have sex). She later dates Flash, who is now Peter's friend. She joins "The Cult of Love". She starts carrying guns and goes hunting bad guys. it's crazy.
there were so many instances of Peter prooooobably having sex with girls in the early years that it is downright insulting to the readers that the mandated change in Sins Past was that Gwen's twins couldn't have been Peter's because ew, premarital sex, icky
@@aceshighdueceslow There were never any instances during the Lee/Ditko run of Peter having sex with anyone - I don't think they ever show him kissing either Betty or Liz. During the Lee/Romita run he kisses Gwen *a lot* but there is never any indication that ever have sex (even though Peter thinks about proposing to her). After Gwen dies he's in mourning for awhile. It's widely believed that at the end of ASM #149 when MJ is in his apartment and Peter closes the door, that the two of them sleep with each other, and that's the first time Peter has sex. If you actually look at the Peter/Gwen romance, it fits in with the Sins Past statement that Peter and Gwen never had sex. They were in love but there was never any indication that it went beyond kissing. Plus it's also widely accepted that Peter and Betty have sex after she comes home from her honeymoon with Ned. So it's not like Marvel was saying (even years before Sins Past) that Peter never had pre-marital sex - it's just that he's a monogamous guy and doesn't rush into things.
@@jhornacek fair enough, I may be getting my wires crossed of what was actually shown in the early run with reinterpretations from newer stuff, such as things like Spider-Man Blue where it's implied pretty heavily what happens after Gwen asks "will you be my valentine?" All that aside my hate is more directed at the character assassination that is done because Joe Quesada just absolutely refuses to allow Peter to grow up or be a stable person in the main continuity. OMD was awful for many reasons but Sins Past is absolutely my least favourite arc in any comic because it does Gwen so dirty. At least in the aftermath of OMD MJ and other characters are still around to be redeemed by better writers and stories later but Gwen is still dead, so we are just having her memory dragged through the mud
@@aceshighdueceslow For all its praises (mostly the beautiful art), SM Blue gets a lot wrong with continuity - characters appear in the wrong order, people appear that shouldn't appear until later (or earlier), etc. It's basically a retcon of Peter and Gwen's relationship, told in the present as Peter talking into a tape recorder (?) so of course he's looking back at it through rose-colored glasses. Fully agree on the Quesada hate. Although his business sense saved Marvel as a company, he will forever be one of Spidey's arch-villains (along with Tony Stark) as someone who set out to "save" the character and ended up destroying him. As far as Sins Past, the first half of it is great but it falls apart in the second part. JMS admitted he wanted Peter to be the father but Marvel said no so instead of throwing out the story he went ahead with it and made Norman the father (he says he was told that OMD was already planned and he was told he was going to be able to retcon the Stacey twins out of existence with the Mephisto deal, so at least he thought the twins birth would never have happened). If you're interested there's an article on the Crawl Space website about what works in Sins Past, what doesn't, its legacy, and how it fits into established continuity. The author's explanation was so detailed and researched that Marvel recognized it as the official explanation of when and how Norman and Gwen hooked up.
It was cool to see that she knows about the LSH. A lot of modern comic fans don't seem to know or care about them so it's nice when a reference, even a small one, is made.
Spot on about Cosmic Boy's 30th Century corset. It'd be great if you did a video about how far future fashion & culture were depicted in 1950s-1970s comics.
As I remember it, the old school What If almost always had downbeat endings. Almost as if to say the Marvel Universe we had was the best we could hope for. Marvel hadn't hit on doing whole comic lines about alternate timelines yet, thank god. A notable exception is the issue where the Marvel Bullpen including Stan Lee and Jack Kirby get the powers of the Fantastic Four. That story was written and drawn by Jack Kirby!
3:37 For a guy who's supposed to be blessed with Parker luck around women, Peter is Smooth AF when it comes to relationships. I wish I had that side effect of parker luck
@@RyanConIon If there's anything common between every single reality of Peter Parkers, it's that he always ends up with the hottest girls, it's literally a meme now.
In AF #15 and the first ASM issues Peter has no luck with women but as he becomes more confident with being Spider-Man he really matures and gains confidence as Peter Parker. He is talking back to Flash, something a pre-spider bite Peter would never do. And he asks Liz out more than once in a normal way, and not the "Gosh, would you, I mean, I wanted to ..." way he asks the girl (Sally?) to the science demonstration in AF #15. The first instance of Peter being Smooth AF with women is the end of ASM #7 (?) with the Vulture returning. He's sitting in the Bugle behind Betty's desk with Betty and he's acting very smooth with her. We don't see anything but it's heavily implied they make out off panel as the issue ends.
Gr8 move working in the Luke Cage "coffee" reference! Staying in that lane, the Spider-girl costume was just a cringy & un-intimidating as Luke in his disco outfit!
10:59 I like the idea that Peter can from a slightly more objective point of view realize foisting indirect guilt on people like that is not acceptable. He just can't forgive himself the same way. I like the Irony.
Yeah right ? We all know it should have been a red webbed one piece swimsuit, bare legs but with full length blue sleeves with red webbed gloves and boots with a giant Power Girl hole for the bosom !
I had the “What If The Marvel Bullpen Had Become The Fantastic Four”, where the Skrulls sent a cosmic ray emitter to the offices of Marvel Comics. Stan Lee became the incredibly stretchable Mr Fantastic, and legendary artist Jack Kirby became a hairy-eyebrowed Thing! PLEASE DO THIS ISSUE! THE TRUE-BELIEVERS DEMAND IT! 😉
I like to imagine the watcher eating multiversal popcorn channelsurfing through universes and sees Betty Brant spidergirl in that panel, nearly chokes and says "well I gotta say she definitely has her own style", then changes it over to capwolf
What if is probably my favorite comic style. I am a sucker for an alternate universe. Great vid! If you've not checked out the "What if" Where the fantastic four each got each others powers, it's horrifying for Sue with Reed Richards being a whole lot of Reed Richards
I just read this story for the first time two days ago! I thought it was pretty neat that a 1977 story set in the late 60’s never made Betty out to be fragile and didn’t require Peter to save her, even if he becomes his own Spider-Man later. I really don’t get why all three had variations on mainstream Spider-Man’s costume... maybe something to do with spider totem power yadda yadda yadda? My favorite bit, though, is that she also has pupils in her mask’s opaque eyes when she realizes the burglar she subdued is the same one that killed Ben. Ditko’s drawing of that in Amazing Fantasy 15 always cracks me up.
Maybe if the gloves were shoulder length? The pink outfit was a leotard & tights. an hombre unitard would not be an off the shelf item. She was fine as Spider-Girl. Peter Parker's Persistent Paper Pursuit? Perfect. Honestly, he'd make a good Ferengi. Also, I cannot see Marvel characters walking away like they did at the end without the end theme for The Incredible Hulk playing in my head.
As the only one who live through her short time as a spider hero in the What If, I'm curious of Betty's reaction to Peter becoming Spider-Man at the end of the story after keeping the spider. "You realize this means you have to demonstrate your powers for me wearing that same pink leotard now, right?"
Someone at Marvel liked that word. it was used on their adaptation of the Marvelous Land of Oz... but as to what it actually means: tintinnabulation 1 the ringing or sounding of bells 2 a jingling or tinkling sound as if of bells
You should do a video of the French Spider-Woman, from the Marvel stories that were unique to France and Germany. Her costume was identical to Spider-man's except her hair flowed out the back.
11:06 You didn't mention Uatu, The Watcher's shadow in the scene where Peter looks back at the costume. But you did note that it was him talking earlier. I guess it should be prefaced by telling the audience briefly that the What If?s are usually narrated by The Watcher.
8:02 - 8:13. .. laughed so much I had to re-watch the stuff that came after ... because I missed it ... because i was still laughing at what came at 8:02 - 8:13
Well now you have to talk about everyone's favorite spider-girl mayday parker. Now I think I know where that random spidergirl from Slott's spiderverse came from
@@maryfrancess93 Marvel's been collecting her series in TPB so ive been reading it and I really like what I've read so far. I figure if Sony wants to make that female lead spiderverse spin-off, they should just go to peter b parker's universe and do mayday's story since he gets back with MJ there.
I was a big fan of the What If series when it was out and I have fingers crossed for the promised animated series. The Cosmic Boy costume remark was a thing of beauty.
"Even though he did kind of push her into it, it ended up being something that she also enjoyed." Is this a story about super powers, or prom night? You decide!
Have you heard of the Spin off of Spiderman in Mexico's comics because the editor thought that the dead of Gwen Stacy was not good and decided to make their own series without that (or something alike), having even a wedding? That would be great to talk here!
Please do more What If's, I'm really excited for the What If series on Disney Plus, and on a side note new episode of Stargirl tonight!, I would watch videos covering those as well.
I first encountered the word “tintinnabulous” in Johnny Mercer’s song, “Too Marvelous For Words” where at on point the lyrics exclaim, “Your voice is tintinnabulous!” I fully expect this song to pop up in the MCU at some point.
I don't know if this got mentioned yet, but the 3 stories in that issue have a common ending: All 3 alt-Peters study the radioactive spider, and derive from it the means to imbue themselves with the traditional spider-powers - because destiny must be obeyed.
The costume is a hot mess, but the story wasn't bad, honestly. I like that the super-strength problem arises in the story. Spiderman, although not on the level of the Hulk or Thor, is stupidly strong and his adversaries are usually normal folk. He could slap them with a bit more force and their heads would rip off. Doc Ock was surprised by that fact when he became Superior Spiderman. Also I liked that Peter for once wasn't beating himself with guilt, but was rather the wise mentor. It'd be nice if they explored that alternative story a bit more. The pairing also looked and felt good.
i don't know why but i found myself really loving the idea of "cool and charismatic super heroine and her civilian scientist boytoy" need me more of that very specific dynamic
I am 58 years old. I didn't read comics when I was young. I read a few in my thirties like x men, The Maxx, Spawn. I wondered if you could recommend a few comics to read (old or new series). I love comedy but I like some dark stuff too. Though I have never been in love with comics watching your channel makes them very much more interesting. I love your knowledge, presentation, humor, and hair.
I'm not sure why, but the first comic I started collecting was mc2 spider-girl. It was at a book fair in my middle of nowhere school. I didn't know there could be spider-ladies. Not the best writing but a lot of fun. And that's kind of the just of the mc2. I would love to see what would be done with the characters with different writers.
One of the first comics I ever bought myself was a collection of the first few issues of Spider-Girl, I got it from a small comic shop alongside a collection of older issues redrawn with a more modern art style, and the last issue of the Sins Past arc which confused me a bit as a child but I now debate whether or not to burn it. On a different note, I legit thought the Spider-Girl comic was the destined future for the mainline Marvel comics when I first read it as a young-un, since her debut What If issue was simply marked as Issue 0, the idea of legacy superheroes was planted in my mind thanks to watching reruns of Batman TAS alongside Batman Beyond, and (most importantly) my 9-year-old brain was blissfully unaware of the weirdness that is the Comic Book Multiverse.
Im surprised you don't do any more classic what if stories. Some were super dark for their times. I remember one where Death's Head 2 was taken over by Von Strucker and killed the Avengers and FF brutally.
They could have done so much better if they'd made web-fishnet shirt and used a Batman-like cowl (so the face didn't look exactly the same as Spiderman and there'd be _some_ design flow to the torso)
Boz Comics Lol. I almost ship the costume, except, a: it's Not full cover, which means u gotta stop it clashing. Either a tanning booth, or you can knock back the primary's a couple shades. That doesn't Have to imply she's not poisonous. The copperhead is Not scarlet, and the Mamba is Totally Camo. So there's no reason Spider Girl has to have a madly clashing rig. An b: the other reason I don't ship is personal, an has to do with my preference for a few sparkly wisps as a costume. Oyea, y'all object to the cold. Hate to tell you this but really healthy people don't notice a few degrees extra- either cold OR hot. Btw, don't try that last at home. Ima totally badass hero an ur NOT.
Boz Comics Ok, so, it's a crappy costume. Any decent Couturier could beat it to death without even trying- but maybe she's never made a costume before. 👻😎
I don't think Peter really is acting out of character at the end. I think in general he is much harder on himself than on other people. That's why as Spider-Man he blames himself for his uncle's death, but he doesn't blame Betty as Spider-Girl for his uncle's death.
I would argue I never owned a lot of comics overall either, but certainly not a lot in any particular category, except for Spider-Girl & Venom. Later I owned a fairly extensive collection of The Mask, though it still pales to the other two collections
Woman: "I could lose my job."
Boy who's known her for less than a day: "Who cares? I have an idea!"
I suppose this does match Peter's pre Uncle Ben death personality from the first comic, which a lot of adaptations tend to soften.
Peter: I don't care if you lose your job Betty. I just want to get off watching you use your powers.
I blame the Raimi Trilogy personally.
“I’ll do anything to make sure [Aunt May and Uncle Ben] are happy. The rest of the world can hang for all I care.” - Peter Parker, Amazing Fantasy #15
Might’ve paraphrased a bit, haven’t read it in a while.
@@MemesToa I remember reading that line after getting into Spider-Man thanks to the Raimi films. Pre-spider Peter was a bigger jerk than most people remember, which made his character development all the more impactful
Peter's expressions are priceless in this. Like, he is WAY too in to this situation. He likes having a superhero pet project more than he likes having his, erhem, coffee date.
Also: WHAT-IF!? JJ's reasoning for thinking Spider-Girl's outfit was obscene wasn't different from Sasha's?
"That Spider-Hussie is a MENACE! Those boots don't match that top at all!"
Okay, I got some things to say about Betty's costume... THE HELL IS THAT?!?! First off she looks like if Peter got his head put on the body of 70's swimsuit model or figure skater. Secondly, they kept the original gloves and boots, yet it clashes with the one piece, and the one piece has webbing, acting as sheer fabric, which could work, yet not here. Finally, the under webbing, WHAT IS IT ATTACHED TOO?! Her bare arms? That looks gross, this ALL LOOKS GROSS. Like, what was wrong her her leotard being a basis, why am I so pissed? lol
Sorry for the rant, but as someone who took classes on design, I feel... blighted upon!
(Now remove the mask and maybe we can fix this thing lol)
GenerationWest amen
I love how in the panel of Spider-Girl holding the unconscious burglar, they drew the pupils of her eyes in the mask, which is a mistake since you're not supposed to see her eyes through the mask, but it's a reference to the similar panel in the original Amazing Fantasy #15 where you see Peter's pupils in the mask.
I'm glad you addressed the issue of the suddenly-visible pupils; that always bothered me in the original story. I wondered if it was the result of an editorial decision that was later regretted. For a while I thought that my copy of the original peter parker version had somehow been vandalized before I bought it.
@@arejay54 I think the visible pupils in the Amazing Fantasy story is just Ditko adding them to express Spider-Man's shock. At this point they were still making up the rules for Spidey (I think his spider-sense isn't mentioned until ASM #1).
I know some reprints erase the pupils in this panel but I like my reprints to contain the original mistakes, like when Doc Ock calls Spider-Man "Superman", or when Stan's narration calls Peter "Peter Palmer".
Thanks to you fine people of culture I now know what Tintinnabulate means, and about it's connection to Edgar Allen Poe; I still have no idea why it is on or in this issue tho lmao. I am very sad I missed out on doing my terrible "the bell has already been rung" Lex Luthor impression tho.
You had friends in the comments, waiting with the explanation but sadly...
The bell has already been rung.
(I’ll see myself out)
"....and knowing is half the battle!"
G.I. Joe
Casually Comics Can you do the alternate spider characters like flash and Jameson in this issue?
Other than that I find it odd that with as much knowledge as you have of comics a lot of the comments are a bit "you are my manic pixie dream girl" or "ackachulley..." comments.
maryfrancess93 Dudes will be dudes. I apologize on behalf of all men.
10:52 It might be hypocritical, but reassuring her that it's not her fault is completely in character for Peter. He only holds himself to a ridiculous standard, not everyone else.
The real questions are how far will Peter go for a coffee, how the Watcher got buff and where the web wings are attached.
This issue convinced me that Peter will kill to protect a potential coffee date.
@@CasuallyComics so I'm the only one who got a damn this b**** needs to shave her armpits vibe?
Crisco Istheman the webbing in the cleavage also gave chest hair vibes. I’m a guy but I totally get it.
According to the Editor's Note in *What If the Avengers Fought Galactus* , the Watcher gives himself muscles to look "intimidating" to the Avengers. So either he can change his form to look buff, or he did a workout montage off-screen to get those gains.
And given that he slugs it out with Galactus in the climax like the Charles Atlas kid, he knows how to use them.
Betty’s worse costume is about to win a cosplay somewhere. ☺️
Ya know, I pretty much agree with Sasha, but, I do have to admit....once she took off the mask in the final panels, it sorta, worked, I guess, in a way!
TheMajR Payne It did 😈
She should have just had a domino mask with the web pattern then it would've worked. Peter's mask looks so wrong with that costume.
I’m pretty tempted to make it myself.
I think it's the lighter blue of the, what, Spider-Bustier? 😁 If it was the royal blue of the regular Spider-Man outfit, it would probably work better. But yeah, I remember this when it originally came out (yes, I'm THAT old!) and wondering how the under-arm webbing worked when she doesn't have sleeves!
Sasha is the penultimate fan girl and we all love her for it
No, she's the tintinnabulate fan
@@ezraho8449 I dont think they knew what that word meant........
Then who is the ultimate fan girl?
@@markwalker3484 my baby mama
Idk if that was a typo, but penultimate means second last
(This gives me vibes like you've been killing Fangirls and Sasha is your penultimate victim)
This story's ending was kind of forced up on the writer (although I think the same writer wrote all 3 stories in this issue) because each one has the "new" Spider-person either dying or quitting, with Peter deciding to use the spider (whose body he kept in each story) to give himself Spider-powers. The Watcher says something like "Because in every reality, it is destiny that Peter Parker, and only Peter Parker, would become ... Spider-Man!"
Which of course gets thrown out the window years later with Miles Morales, Miguel Ohara, and all the alternate Spideys of Spider-Verse.
Yes, but Miguel doesn't count, because he's the Spider-Man of 2099 when Spider-Man started his career before 1999. Since it's 2020, Peter has only been active since 2013 or later. Unless Marvel has added a year or two to the sliding scale.
@@toddnolastname4485 Marvel's sliding timescale is tricky. They said in Civil War (when he unmasked) that he got his powers when he was 15 years old. And in ASM Volume 3 (?) #1 it said that was 13 years ago when Peter got bit, so he was now 28 years old (and that was in 2014). Peter has definitely matured once Slott left the book and Spencer took over, but that's mostly due to Spencer fixing most of the characterization problems Slott had done and making Peter act responsible like he should.
There have been flashbacks/retcons to the Lee/Ditko era in recent years (i.e. Learning To Crawl mini-series) where they have done some updates to make it so that it doesn't take place in the 1960s (i.e. personal computers) but there are also things they leave in that definitely set it in the 1960s.
It's like Marvel wants to have its cake and eat it too. They want Spidey's origin to remain in the 1960s, but they also want it to be "13 years ago" from present-day Spidey.
Tintinnabulate: Ring or sound like a small bell. To the Marvel writers - “I do not think it means what you think it means” ☺️
Lol it means what it needs to mean, Spidey hears the bells!!
Someone likes Poe I guess..
So Sascha does get mre cowbell?
There is a character in the movie "A funny thing happened on the way to the forum" called Tintunabula ... go check out why.
Probably a yes and know since it is probably a spider sense reference .. My spider sense is ringing was something used I am glad we use tingling now but still
I saw a picture of her costume a few years ago.
I didn't know this comic existed so I just thought that someone had photoshopped an old Spidey comic and made the costume as ridiculous as possible for a joke.
I would have never imagined that it was *REAL*
Peter and Betty's relationship is much stronger (and more stable) here than in the actual ASM issues. This story is only 1/3 of the issue so there's not much room for extra characters, but I don't think any of Peter's school "friends" appear. In normal continuity Peter and Betty were in love but Liz Allan kept making passes at Peter in front of Betty, and Betty would never accept that Peter was her boyfriend and wasn't interested in Liz (no matter how many times he told her), so that (plus Peter's double-life as Spidey) eventually drove them apart and caused her to date Ned.
I had this in a collection of What IF, I got it in library and never gave it back and it’s the comic that got me into comics! There’s a crazy amount of nostalgia!!!
According to google, tintinnabulation means “a ringing or tinkling sound.”
... so what I’m saying is I think you’re getting your fix of both zany Spider-Man stories -and- cowbell!
I just found your channel and LOVE it. Please do more Hal “Hot Mess” Jordan. I always had this view of him as basically being a great pilot and a great Green Lantern and a total wreck at *everything else*, nice to see it confirmed from an outside source.
lol Hal "Hot Mess" Jordan and his BDE (Big Disaster Energy) give me life.
I would love a video about the long and crazy history of the character of Betty Brant. Jonah's secretary, Peter's first love, constantly berating Peter for being interested in Liz (when he's not). She dates Ned Leeds at the same time she's dating Peter. Years later she marries Ned but leaves him on his honeymoon because he's working, so she comes home and kisses Peter (and it's heavily implied they have sex). She later dates Flash, who is now Peter's friend. She joins "The Cult of Love". She starts carrying guns and goes hunting bad guys. it's crazy.
there were so many instances of Peter prooooobably having sex with girls in the early years that it is downright insulting to the readers that the mandated change in Sins Past was that Gwen's twins couldn't have been Peter's because ew, premarital sex, icky
@@aceshighdueceslow There were never any instances during the Lee/Ditko run of Peter having sex with anyone - I don't think they ever show him kissing either Betty or Liz.
During the Lee/Romita run he kisses Gwen *a lot* but there is never any indication that ever have sex (even though Peter thinks about proposing to her).
After Gwen dies he's in mourning for awhile. It's widely believed that at the end of ASM #149 when MJ is in his apartment and Peter closes the door, that the two of them sleep with each other, and that's the first time Peter has sex.
If you actually look at the Peter/Gwen romance, it fits in with the Sins Past statement that Peter and Gwen never had sex. They were in love but there was never any indication that it went beyond kissing.
Plus it's also widely accepted that Peter and Betty have sex after she comes home from her honeymoon with Ned. So it's not like Marvel was saying (even years before Sins Past) that Peter never had pre-marital sex - it's just that he's a monogamous guy and doesn't rush into things.
@@jhornacek fair enough, I may be getting my wires crossed of what was actually shown in the early run with reinterpretations from newer stuff, such as things like Spider-Man Blue where it's implied pretty heavily what happens after Gwen asks "will you be my valentine?"
All that aside my hate is more directed at the character assassination that is done because Joe Quesada just absolutely refuses to allow Peter to grow up or be a stable person in the main continuity. OMD was awful for many reasons but Sins Past is absolutely my least favourite arc in any comic because it does Gwen so dirty. At least in the aftermath of OMD MJ and other characters are still around to be redeemed by better writers and stories later but Gwen is still dead, so we are just having her memory dragged through the mud
@@aceshighdueceslow For all its praises (mostly the beautiful art), SM Blue gets a lot wrong with continuity - characters appear in the wrong order, people appear that shouldn't appear until later (or earlier), etc. It's basically a retcon of Peter and Gwen's relationship, told in the present as Peter talking into a tape recorder (?) so of course he's looking back at it through rose-colored glasses.
Fully agree on the Quesada hate. Although his business sense saved Marvel as a company, he will forever be one of Spidey's arch-villains (along with Tony Stark) as someone who set out to "save" the character and ended up destroying him.
As far as Sins Past, the first half of it is great but it falls apart in the second part. JMS admitted he wanted Peter to be the father but Marvel said no so instead of throwing out the story he went ahead with it and made Norman the father (he says he was told that OMD was already planned and he was told he was going to be able to retcon the Stacey twins out of existence with the Mephisto deal, so at least he thought the twins birth would never have happened).
If you're interested there's an article on the Crawl Space website about what works in Sins Past, what doesn't, its legacy, and how it fits into established continuity. The author's explanation was so detailed and researched that Marvel recognized it as the official explanation of when and how Norman and Gwen hooked up.
Omg I was not expecting that cosmic boy reference! Yesss! Never forget the “naked era” of the legion
The great fabric shortage of the 30th century lol
Casually Comics “it’s not cold in space, not at all”
It was cool to see that she knows about the LSH. A lot of modern comic fans don't seem to know or care about them so it's nice when a reference, even a small one, is made.
John Boehmer
It had a good tv show tho
Spot on about Cosmic Boy's 30th Century corset. It'd be great if you did a video about how far future fashion & culture were depicted in 1950s-1970s comics.
As I remember it, the old school What If almost always had downbeat endings. Almost as if to say the Marvel Universe we had was the best we could hope for.
Marvel hadn't hit on doing whole comic lines about alternate timelines yet, thank god.
A notable exception is the issue where the Marvel Bullpen including Stan Lee and Jack Kirby get the powers of the Fantastic Four. That story was written and drawn by Jack Kirby!
"I watched 'Luke Cage,' I know what 'get coffee' means."
Yes. All that.
I liked this. The team up with Peter and Betty is the best. Especially when they giggle behind JJJ's back.
3:37 For a guy who's supposed to be blessed with Parker luck around women, Peter is Smooth AF when it comes to relationships.
I wish I had that side effect of parker luck
Maybe the Spider Bite cause the bad luck
@@RyanConIon If there's anything common between every single reality of Peter Parkers, it's that he always ends up with the hottest girls, it's literally a meme now.
In AF #15 and the first ASM issues Peter has no luck with women but as he becomes more confident with being Spider-Man he really matures and gains confidence as Peter Parker. He is talking back to Flash, something a pre-spider bite Peter would never do. And he asks Liz out more than once in a normal way, and not the "Gosh, would you, I mean, I wanted to ..." way he asks the girl (Sally?) to the science demonstration in AF #15.
The first instance of Peter being Smooth AF with women is the end of ASM #7 (?) with the Vulture returning. He's sitting in the Bugle behind Betty's desk with Betty and he's acting very smooth with her. We don't see anything but it's heavily implied they make out off panel as the issue ends.
Peter Parker is basicly a harem main character with a personality.
"I hate everything about it." Agreed so much hatred.
9:16 Holy shit, Cosmic Boy needs that 70's costume back.
I love her "Peter Parker" voice.
Check out the 90s Spidergirl!
ua-cam.com/video/-Y2yv_KpTqU/v-deo.html
Gr8 move working in the Luke Cage "coffee" reference! Staying in that lane, the Spider-girl costume was just a cringy & un-intimidating as Luke in his disco outfit!
10:59 I like the idea that Peter can from a slightly more objective point of view realize foisting indirect guilt on people like that is not acceptable. He just can't forgive himself the same way. I like the Irony.
The mask is really what makes the costume go from somewhat decent to just downright awful 😂
Yeah right ? We all know it should have been a red webbed one piece swimsuit, bare legs but with full length blue sleeves with red webbed gloves and boots with a giant Power Girl hole for the bosom !
I had the “What If The Marvel Bullpen Had Become The Fantastic Four”, where the Skrulls sent a cosmic ray emitter to the offices of Marvel Comics. Stan Lee became the incredibly stretchable Mr Fantastic, and legendary artist Jack Kirby became a hairy-eyebrowed Thing! PLEASE DO THIS ISSUE! THE TRUE-BELIEVERS DEMAND IT! 😉
I would love a video on how the Marvel employees are recurring characters in the early FF run.
I LOVED that issue!!
@@jhornacek seconded!
I like to imagine the watcher eating multiversal popcorn channelsurfing through universes and sees Betty Brant spidergirl in that panel, nearly chokes and says "well I gotta say she definitely has her own style", then changes it over to capwolf
I'd love to see a discussion on Venom. From his humble beginnings as Spidey's black costume makeover in the 80s, and his evolution through the years.
What if is probably my favorite comic style. I am a sucker for an alternate universe. Great vid! If you've not checked out the "What if" Where the fantastic four each got each others powers, it's horrifying for Sue with Reed Richards being a whole lot of Reed Richards
I just read this story for the first time two days ago! I thought it was pretty neat that a 1977 story set in the late 60’s never made Betty out to be fragile and didn’t require Peter to save her, even if he becomes his own Spider-Man later. I really don’t get why all three had variations on mainstream Spider-Man’s costume... maybe something to do with spider totem power yadda yadda yadda? My favorite bit, though, is that she also has pupils in her mask’s opaque eyes when she realizes the burglar she subdued is the same one that killed Ben. Ditko’s drawing of that in Amazing Fantasy 15 always cracks me up.
Betty Brant is underrated. There was always something unique about her. It's like Lana Lang.
Maybe if the gloves were shoulder length?
The pink outfit was a leotard & tights. an hombre unitard would not be an off the shelf item.
She was fine as Spider-Girl. Peter Parker's Persistent Paper Pursuit? Perfect.
Honestly, he'd make a good Ferengi.
Also, I cannot see Marvel characters walking away like they did at the end without the end theme for The Incredible Hulk playing in my head.
As the only one who live through her short time as a spider hero in the What If, I'm curious of Betty's reaction to Peter becoming Spider-Man at the end of the story after keeping the spider.
"You realize this means you have to demonstrate your powers for me wearing that same pink leotard now, right?"
More Mayday Parker please!
Please make a video on her and the MC2
I'm here for muscle bear Uatu! Betty's costume though, as my aunts would say "Chiiiiiile" LOL!
Someone at Marvel liked that word. it was used on their adaptation of the Marvelous Land of Oz... but as to what it actually means:
tintinnabulation
1 the ringing or sounding of bells
2 a jingling or tinkling sound as if of bells
You should do a video of the French Spider-Woman, from the Marvel stories that were unique to France and Germany. Her costume was identical to Spider-man's except her hair flowed out the back.
She glides with her Pits of Pandemonium!
Everybody loves Batman's voice but her amazing Peter Parker voice is perfect and sounds like he'll grow up to be a 1920s reporter!
11:06 You didn't mention Uatu, The Watcher's shadow in the scene where Peter looks back at the costume. But you did note that it was him talking earlier. I guess it should be prefaced by telling the audience briefly that the What If?s are usually narrated by The Watcher.
5:57 Worried she might hurt someone.
10:09 Betty gets angry. 10:33 Angry Betty is willing to risk finding out if her super strength will kill.
Cosmic Boy from the 70s - good eye! That was a weird time for the Legion.
8:02 - 8:13. .. laughed so much I had to re-watch the stuff that came after ... because I missed it ... because i was still laughing at what came at 8:02 - 8:13
The way you read Peter's line make me want to see a video of Spider-Man's lines being read by Steve Urkel.
I've never seen this costume. And now I can't unsee it.
Well now you have to talk about everyone's favorite spider-girl mayday parker. Now I think I know where that random spidergirl from Slott's spiderverse came from
My first spider-girl. I love them all, but she's still my fave. She was so 90's spunky.
@@maryfrancess93 Marvel's been collecting her series in TPB so ive been reading it and I really like what I've read so far. I figure if Sony wants to make that female lead spiderverse spin-off, they should just go to peter b parker's universe and do mayday's story since he gets back with MJ there.
I like how they used that same panel of Spider Man holding the Ben's killer but it just looks like Spider Man in lingerie
Your character voices while reading the comics are hilarious
🤣 I love how you read Peter
I was a big fan of the What If series when it was out and I have fingers crossed for the promised animated series.
The Cosmic Boy costume remark was a thing of beauty.
"Even though he did kind of push her into it, it ended up being something that she also enjoyed." Is this a story about super powers, or prom night? You decide!
Spider-Betty appears in the Spiderverse comic, one of them... and almost got killed by one of the dimensional vampires
Have you heard of the Spin off of Spiderman in Mexico's comics because the editor thought that the dead of Gwen Stacy was not good and decided to make their own series without that (or something alike), having even a wedding? That would be great to talk here!
I think the comic shop I work at has one of those issues. We've had it forever! I wish I was more fluent in Spanish. Nobody wants it.
The Watcher throwing shade.....that's why I watch this channel.
Please do more What If's, I'm really excited for the What If series on Disney Plus, and on a side note new episode of Stargirl tonight!, I would watch videos covering those as well.
I first encountered the word “tintinnabulous” in Johnny Mercer’s song, “Too Marvelous For Words” where at on point the lyrics exclaim, “Your voice is tintinnabulous!” I fully expect this song to pop up in the MCU at some point.
Really cool video Sasha. Never heard of this one before. It's be neat to hear about the other two stories in this What if? In the future.
Sasha, "Even though Peter was in it to get that coin.".....I cracked up...
Your Pete voice cracks me up!
Love the 'go to your room and think about what you did' :)
What if SpiderMan joined the FF was one of my first What Ifs, and it was great.
I don't know if this got mentioned yet, but the 3 stories in that issue have a common ending: All 3 alt-Peters study the radioactive spider, and derive from it the means to imbue themselves with the traditional spider-powers - because destiny must be obeyed.
The costume is a hot mess, but the story wasn't bad, honestly. I like that the super-strength problem arises in the story. Spiderman, although not on the level of the Hulk or Thor, is stupidly strong and his adversaries are usually normal folk. He could slap them with a bit more force and their heads would rip off. Doc Ock was surprised by that fact when he became Superior Spiderman.
Also I liked that Peter for once wasn't beating himself with guilt, but was rather the wise mentor. It'd be nice if they explored that alternative story a bit more. The pairing also looked and felt good.
If only.
i don't know why but i found myself really loving the idea of "cool and charismatic super heroine and her civilian scientist boytoy"
need me more of that very specific dynamic
Liked the stories when I read them, although I was not in love with Betty's costume. But those old What If's were fun, and had some good stories!
Damn, that Peter voice is excellent!
And of course, Cosmic Boy's 70s costume is basically Dr. Frank N. Furter's outfit but done in purple and without the pearls.
If Jameson called her a SKEEZA I’d be screaming😂😂😂
From Peters voice to " out of my way coffee" LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
"What If Jane Foster Found the Hammer of Thor?"
She'll star in her own movie, and it will include Christian Bale.
Marvel writers some years after that What If? "holy shit, we should totally make an actual series out of this idea"
I’m totally here for that Peter voice lol
I am 58 years old. I didn't read comics when I was young. I read a few in my thirties like x men, The Maxx, Spawn. I wondered if you could recommend a few comics to read (old or new series). I love comedy but I like some dark stuff too. Though I have never been in love with comics watching your channel makes them very much more interesting. I love your knowledge, presentation, humor, and hair.
I love this channel. I can’t wait for you to tackle one of the Silver Age LSH stories. Anyone will do.
The webbing hanging out of her arm pits... this one was a doozie.
I'm not sure why, but the first comic I started collecting was mc2 spider-girl. It was at a book fair in my middle of nowhere school. I didn't know there could be spider-ladies. Not the best writing but a lot of fun. And that's kind of the just of the mc2. I would love to see what would be done with the characters with different writers.
One of the first comics I ever bought myself was a collection of the first few issues of Spider-Girl, I got it from a small comic shop alongside a collection of older issues redrawn with a more modern art style, and the last issue of the Sins Past arc which confused me a bit as a child but I now debate whether or not to burn it.
On a different note, I legit thought the Spider-Girl comic was the destined future for the mainline Marvel comics when I first read it as a young-un, since her debut What If issue was simply marked as Issue 0, the idea of legacy superheroes was planted in my mind thanks to watching reruns of Batman TAS alongside Batman Beyond, and (most importantly) my 9-year-old brain was blissfully unaware of the weirdness that is the Comic Book Multiverse.
I love how you read Peter as Steve Urkell LoL
Im surprised you don't do any more classic what if stories. Some were super dark for their times. I remember one where Death's Head 2 was taken over by Von Strucker and killed the Avengers and FF brutally.
I think you are awesome going over that. Good work.
They could have done so much better if they'd made web-fishnet shirt and used a Batman-like cowl (so the face didn't look exactly the same as Spiderman and there'd be _some_ design flow to the torso)
YES! Do a Spider-Girl/MC2 episode!
3:57 "My word!"
That costume, though. What's even happening there? Haha.
So much...so so much lol
Boz Comics
Lol. I almost ship the costume, except, a: it's Not full cover, which means u gotta stop it clashing. Either a tanning booth, or you can knock back the primary's a couple shades. That doesn't Have to imply she's not poisonous. The copperhead is Not scarlet, and the Mamba is Totally Camo.
So there's no reason Spider Girl has to have a madly clashing rig.
An b: the other reason I don't ship is personal, an has to do with my preference for a few sparkly wisps as a costume.
Oyea, y'all object to the cold. Hate to tell you this but really healthy people don't notice a few degrees extra- either cold OR hot.
Btw, don't try that last at home. Ima totally badass hero an ur NOT.
Bad design. Just bad and awkward design.
Boz Comics
Ok, so, it's a crappy costume. Any decent Couturier could beat it to death without even trying- but maybe she's never made a costume before.
👻😎
I don't think Peter really is acting out of character at the end. I think in general he is much harder on himself than on other people. That's why as Spider-Man he blames himself for his uncle's death, but he doesn't blame Betty as Spider-Girl for his uncle's death.
Betty Brant wants to become as Spider-Girl.
Glad I found your channel 😺
Why does Peter sound like a character from The Three Stooges? 😂
I would argue I never owned a lot of comics overall either, but certainly not a lot in any particular category, except for Spider-Girl & Venom. Later I owned a fairly extensive collection of The Mask, though it still pales to the other two collections
I love when Mayday gets the Carnage symbiote.
I don't drink coffee. Now, I wonder how many times I missed out on true love because of this...
"You're all shaken up, Betty. How about some coffee?"
"I saved that spider! Don't ask me why," Um, I think it's pretty important that we know why Peter kept a dead spider in his pocket.
Your commentary was hilarious on this!
"Peter's daughter"
His what no-
"The Marvel 2, a parallel universe"
There's always another one coming along lol. Looking forward to that vid
LMAO I love your Peter Voice.
It would be so cool if you reviewed the Buffy book in the background!